Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure

Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Method101 on September 25, 2015, 03:26:06 PM

Title: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: Method101 on September 25, 2015, 03:26:06 PM
Your height in CM minus 100 = the amount of KGs you can weigh at 5-6% bodyfat drug free.

In my case I'm 188cm tall, so I will be able to be 88kgs at 5% bodyfat as a natural limit that's 194lbs.

I didn't come up with it, I read it on Lyle McDonald's website. Apparently a diet guru Martin Berkhan came up with it but this sounds 100% accurate to me judging from my own personal experience getting as lean as I could I stopped at 180lbs but could have gone abit lower, So I still have room for about 20lbs more muscle before I'm done.


They should use this formula on every competitor in natural bodybuilding competitions and not waste time with drug tests.
Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: Nether Animal on September 25, 2015, 03:28:17 PM
At least I'd still be over 200lbs.
Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: Dr Dutch on September 25, 2015, 03:32:36 PM
At least I'd still be over 200lbs.
Does that include the boobs in your avatar ??
Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: Thin Lizzy on September 25, 2015, 03:37:22 PM
For those who believe they can add 20lbs of lean muscle, natty, explain where it would go.

The quads are the biggest muscle group. How much can you add to them?

IMO, a true natty can add about 5lbs, total, of lean muscle. Sorry.
Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: Hulkotron on September 25, 2015, 04:12:56 PM
IMO, a true natty can add about 5lbs, total, of lean muscle. Sorry.

Sound a bit low but I wouldn't be surprised if you're pretty close here.

Muscle is around 1.06 kg/L in density so 5 lbs would be a little over two liters of muscle.

That's two full Nalgene bottles and change of pure lean muscle.  That's a lot of muscle.
Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: calfzilla on September 25, 2015, 04:14:32 PM
At least I'd still be over 200lbs.

Dang you must be tall.

At 6'2 it only allowed me 184 lbs  :(
Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: Lustral on September 25, 2015, 05:43:42 PM
I have a massive head (literally and metaphorically) ....this equation is obviously bullshit.

Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: calfzilla on September 25, 2015, 06:42:20 PM
I have a massive head (literally and metaphorically) ....this equation is obviously bullshit.



Hi navy Mike.
Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: OB1 on September 25, 2015, 06:44:47 PM
Hi navy Mike.

 :D
Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: Nether Animal on September 25, 2015, 06:47:06 PM
Dang you must be tall.

At 6'2 it only allowed me 184 lbs  :(

Hmm, sure you did it right? I'm 75.5 inches tall (6'3.5''): 192cm - 100 = 92cm so 92kg, which is just a hair over 200lbs.
Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: Davidtheman100 on September 25, 2015, 06:59:10 PM
You can add more than 5 lbs of muscle naturally lmao easily I don't believe in natural training but it's a fact that you can
Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: Thin Lizzy on September 25, 2015, 07:08:49 PM
You can add more than 5 lbs of muscle naturally lmao easily I don't believe in natural training but it's a fact that you can

MMA has exposed the bodybuilding myth of natural muscle gains, by showing what a 6'2" functional athlete looks like. He tends to weigh 185. A natty Phil Heath would be fighting at 170, if not 155.
Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: OB1 on September 25, 2015, 08:03:23 PM
You cannot gain much muscle natural if shredded (in the single digits).
If you train natural muscle comes with fat.
They go hand in hand so to speak.
Cut fat=cut muscle.
Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: Davidtheman100 on September 25, 2015, 11:03:41 PM
You cannot gain much muscle natural if shredded (in the single digits).
If you train natural muscle comes with fat.
They go hand in hand so to speak.
Cut fat=cut muscle.

yes you can...if you're 5'8" 140 shredded at 20 years old you still have some growing you can do naturally even in single digits...someone ripped 160 at 5'8" naturally will appeal to large crowds with his shirt off in this modern day America....not to a seasoned lifter and not with his shirt on...but shirt off if he's training all body parts he's sub 8% and 160lbs 5'8"
Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: Method101 on September 25, 2015, 11:10:05 PM
MMA has exposed the bodybuilding myth of natural muscle gains, by showing what a 6'2" functional athlete looks like. He tends to weigh 185. A natty Phil Heath would be fighting at 170, if not 155.
But a lot of MMA guys are on gear, Alistair Overeem for example.


Alistair = 196cm tall but weighed 112kg with abs, let's say he needs to lose another 5kgs to be 5% bodyfat then he's still 11kgs over the natural limit! 25lbs solid muscle over the natural limit!

I read that Alistair since testing positive for juice now cut his weight down to 95kg, which is  just within the natural limit for him  :D
Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: Method101 on September 25, 2015, 11:16:49 PM
MMA has exposed the bodybuilding myth of natural muscle gains, by showing what a 6'2" functional athlete looks like. He tends to weigh 185. A natty Phil Heath would be fighting at 170, if not 155.
Phil is 175cm tall, 75kg = 165lbs Natural Limit for him at 5% bodyfat but on stage he weighs a whopping 250 lbs at 5%....

So he has 95lbs solid muscle more than the natural limit.. holy fuck!.

JUICE is just the finishing touch though guys lol!
Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: Tennisballz on September 26, 2015, 05:23:31 AM
Start at 5'9 163lbs.  Every inch up or down in height add or subtract 7 pounds.  That formula is just about spot on and is for a lifter with good genetics.  The elites may be able to gain more but it won't be much.  This is show ready condition(5-7%).
Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: Julio Ceasar on September 26, 2015, 05:33:12 AM
You cannot gain much muscle natural if shredded (in the single digits).
If you train natural muscle comes with fat.
They go hand in hand so to speak.
Cut fat=cut muscle.


Muscles come with fat??? U mean fooling yourself that u get muscles when u gain weight? And then complain about loosing musclemass on diet haha!

Fucking classic!  ;D

Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: Thin Lizzy on September 26, 2015, 06:40:54 AM
Muscles come with fat??? U mean fooling yourself that u get muscles when u gain weight? And then complain about loosing musclemass on diet haha!

Fucking classic!  ;D



It's more a matter of fat being mistaken for muscle.

When you go from 12% to 20%bf, your measurements will increase, as fat is stored pretty much everywhere on the body. Sure, your arms will get bigger, but so will your waist and your face.
Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: che on September 26, 2015, 07:11:35 AM
For those who believe they can add 20lbs of lean muscle, natty, explain where it would go.

The quads are the biggest muscle group. How much can you add to them?

IMO, a true natty can add about 5lbs, total, of lean muscle. Sorry.
::)
Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: OB1 on September 26, 2015, 07:15:47 AM
Muscles come with fat??? U mean fooling yourself that u get muscles when u gain weight? And then complain about loosing musclemass on diet haha!

Fucking classic!  ;D



Not quite.
My english isn't that good.
Maybe the other way around.
Whatever.
 ;D
Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: 6 Reps on September 26, 2015, 10:33:48 AM
Check this intersting site out.  It bases maximum natural potential on wrist size, ankle size, and desired bodyfat.

http://www.weightrainer.net/index.html  (http://www.weightrainer.net/index.html)                                                                                     
Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: Papper on September 26, 2015, 11:44:25 AM
That formula is actually bullshit. I would look Insane at 82 kg 5 percent.

With fat it's totally plausible but a truly cut up physique of even 7 percent would have a hard time breaching 80 kg naturally at 182 cm. At least for me

And one mans limit is not the same as another
Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: polychronopolous on September 26, 2015, 11:45:51 AM
MMA has exposed the bodybuilding myth of natural muscle gains, by showing what a 6'2" functional athlete looks like. He tends to weigh 185. A natty Phil Heath would be fighting at 170, if not 155.

Half those guys are on juice anyways per Victor Conte interview.
Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: Henda on September 26, 2015, 11:48:16 AM
Haha at methadone101 claiming 180lbs, he's lucky if he breaks 100lbs
Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: Hulkotron on September 26, 2015, 12:24:34 PM
Haha at methadone101 claiming 180lbs, he's lucky if he breaks 100lbs

 :D He recently claimed he had bigger legs before he "even started training" than some power lifter on YouTube.

(http://i60.tinypic.com/2cid0te.jpg)
Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: Rami on September 26, 2015, 12:25:37 PM
5-6% bodyfat drug free.

 ::)
Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: Henda on September 26, 2015, 12:36:27 PM
:D He recently claimed he had bigger legs before he "even started training" than some power lifter on YouTube.

(http://i60.tinypic.com/2cid0te.jpg)

Haha he said he just does "jogging" for legs, I bet they look like a pair of needle nosed pliers
Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: Thin Lizzy on September 26, 2015, 12:46:35 PM
Half those guys are on juice anyways per Victor Conte interview.

The pic on the left is one of those guys after UFC started testing:

(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/PmKkEf8A6RU/hqdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: Lustral on September 26, 2015, 12:50:08 PM
Hi navy Mike.

My gym pics are leaner than his first contest and I'd call myself soft, I'm not deluded.

Thing is that equation removes bone structure from consideration. I have broad shoulders and relatively wide hips; you could have someone else my height with a far smaller waist and far smaller shoulders - yet we would both have same natural limit?  Besides, who cares what a theoretical limit is?

Would you boast that you're at 95% of the natural limit? Or claim someone 1% over it is juiced cos they have better genetics? It's a meaningless number and useless equation - at best it is an approximation.

5% bf natural also brings in the dilemma that naturals go very catabolic as they reach super low bodyfat as their metabolism will slow to a crawl and they will have to drop calories to a shitty low level. If people knew what a real 8% bodyfat physique looked like instead of believing the shit they hear about Flex Wheeler having 0% bf or some athlete having 1% bodyfat we could have more reasonable discussions on good physiques using numbers - otherwise pictures are king.
Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: Method101 on September 26, 2015, 01:16:43 PM
:D He recently claimed he had bigger legs before he "even started training" than some power lifter on YouTube.


that picture was posted here 7 years ago after 1 year of training, let's see your picture after 1 year of training dickwad.
Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: Mawse on September 26, 2015, 01:28:35 PM
195lb @ 5% natural doesn't seem at all like a delusional pipe dream, perfectly attainable with a good brand of creatine and by following layne nortons popular PHAT training routine.
Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: SuperTed on September 26, 2015, 01:35:48 PM
I'm 6'2ft and I would be lucky to get anyway near 195lbs at 5% bf.

I'm around 185lbs right now but not close to 5%. I can see the formula being true for those with superior genes though.
Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: Thin Lizzy on September 26, 2015, 01:50:38 PM
I'm 6'2ft and I would be lucky to get anyway near 195lbs at 5% bf.

I'm around 185lbs right now but not close to 5%. I can see the formula being true for those with superior genes though.

The two fighters who will be fighting for the UFC Middleweight Belt, 185lbs, are both 6'2". One is a two time D1 All-American Wrestler. So, I guess we have some pretty good genetics, there.
Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: disco_stu on September 26, 2015, 01:50:56 PM
formula?...lol..

what a crock.

seriously have any of you guys ever trained naturally?

or even known anyone who has?

plenty of people have gained way more mass than this "formula" - completely naturally.

Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: Thin Lizzy on September 26, 2015, 02:00:46 PM
I'm 6'2ft and I would be lucky to get anyway near 195lbs at 5% bf.

I'm around 185lbs right now but not close to 5%. I can see the formula being true for those with superior genes though.


There was recently a show on ESPN about retired NFL linemen who were struggling with weight issues. One guy, who played at 300lbs, decided to diet down for a fitness show. At 6'5, with big bones, he got down to 220, and wasn't close to ripped.
Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: HonestBob on September 26, 2015, 02:04:53 PM
formula?...lol..

what a crock.

seriously have any of you guys ever trained naturally?

or even known anyone who has?

plenty of people have gained way more mass than this "formula" - completely naturally.

QFT.

Some posters appear to be using this as an excuse for their own frail physiques and achievements.

Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: bigmc on September 26, 2015, 02:07:17 PM
:D He recently claimed he had bigger legs before he "even started training" than some power lifter on YouTube.

(http://i60.tinypic.com/2cid0te.jpg)

that was him at his best

its been downhill since then

after his little psycho act on the apply85 account went tits up
Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: SuperTed on September 26, 2015, 02:09:10 PM

There was recently a show on ESPN about retired NFL linemen who were struggling with weight issues. One guy, who played at 300lbs, decided to diet down for a fitness show. At 6'5, with big bones, he got down to 220, and wasn't close to ripped.

Two years back I decided to see if I could get down to something approaching "contest condition". I ended up quitting at around 7% bf because I just looked like an AID's patient and everyone was asking if I "was feeling okay". :D

It's very difficult to maintain muscle size at a low bodyfat unless chemically enhanced.  
Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: calfzilla on September 26, 2015, 02:10:23 PM
Two years back I decided to see if I could get down to something approaching "contest condition". I ended up quitting at around 7% bf because I just looked like an AID's patient and everyone was asking if I "was feeling okay". :D

It's very difficult to maintain muscle size at a low bodyfat unless chemically enhanced.  

Lol @ asking if you're feeling ok.
Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: Thin Lizzy on September 26, 2015, 02:12:56 PM
Two years back I decided to see if I could get down to something approaching "contest condition". I ended up quitting at around 7% bf because I just looked like an AID's patient and everyone was asking if I "was feeling okay". :D

It's very difficult to maintain muscle size at a low bodyfat unless chemically enhanced.  

I suspect that once you get to about 10% natty, the body takes it as a survival threat and starts conserving fat at the expense of muscle.
Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: che on September 26, 2015, 02:24:56 PM
I suspect that once you get to about 10% natty, the body takes it as a survival threat and starts conserving fat at the expense of muscle.

Holy shit , you are clueless .
Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: Thin Lizzy on September 26, 2015, 02:49:20 PM
Holy shit , you are clueless .


Do you have anything to contribute, besides being a dick?
Title: Re: The final formula to end the debate on the natural limit!
Post by: Kwon_2 on September 27, 2015, 08:08:22 AM
The pic on the left is one of those guys after UFC started testing:

(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/PmKkEf8A6RU/hqdefault.jpg)

TRT-Belfort (when he started at 19 years)
(http://i.imgur.com/BSMFhnU.png)