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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: Dr.J on October 31, 2015, 02:39:53 AM
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Question:
Is there a difference between western (big pharma) made growth hormone and growth hormone made in China?
Answer:
Other than 90/10 price difference ratio, both are identical. Western big pharma corporations use exactly the same production procedure (recombinant DNA technology) and equipment as Chinese labs. Chinese laws regarding GMP and safety of medicine related products are stricter than those in the west.
The identification, purification and later synthesis of growth hormone was first accomplished by a Chinese pioneer Choh Hao Li. Nowadays almost everything used in the west is made in China (or Asia at least) - both the high quality products as well as the low quality copies.
Human growth hormone (somatropin) is a large and fragile, 191 amino acid sequence molecule with a molecular weight of approximately 22,000 Daltons. There is no room for differences. The substance is either somatropin or it is not. If the molecule gets distorted even a little, it will no longer bind to growth hormone receptors.
The reason Chinese goods are often seen as inferior is the vast availability of cheap copies of everything (clothes, electronics, etc..) which visually appear the same as original but are composed of cheaper, inferior material and are thus lower quality and less durable. With production of somatropin this is not possible. The necessary equipment to even create it, comes at a multi million dollar price, so steroid "bathtub" labs are not capable of making it.
The only somatropin manufacturing method which is still used today (both in the west and asia) is the recombinant DNA technology, where E. Coli bacteria are genetically modified to secrete human growth hormone, which is then isolated and can be either lyophilized (freeze dried) or stored in the liquid form.
While somatropin is in the liquid form, it is very sensitive to temperature and shaking. If not refrigerated and handled with care the molecules easily get destroyed. While in freeze dried state, somatropin is not sensitive to shaking and it can survive temperatures up to 45 degrees celsius (113 fahrenheit). Because of this, it is only transported in lyophilized form.
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Yes there's a difference. Use both and you will see. There's obvious differences in purity, there are different fillers used...look at the size of the puck in a vial of Serostim, then compare it to the puck of any generic. The puck of Serostim is about 1/4 the size of the generic and it is 18iu not 10 iu. Assuming you have a generic coming from China that is actually GH... The Chinese counterfeit everything known to man, and will do anything to make a buck.....They are not using the patented technology that EMD Serono uses so it can be stored at room temp before reconstitution. Do you really think that China man is keeping those kits in a refrigerator at the manufacturing facility? No...Then they sit in a shipping container for weeks at who knows what temp. By the time you get the kit, how good is it? The only thing coming out of China worth anything now is The Grey Top. These do have something in them... GH or blend of peptides? Who knows. They also have something in them that causes far more water retention than pharm GH. Also felt hot, and flushed all the time when I used them, and heart rate was elevated. Never any of this with Serostim or any other Rx GH. Hell I wish there weren't any differences in them because I'd like to pay the price of generics compared to pharm GH and get the same product, that would be great, but it's just not the case.
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Question:
Is there a difference between western (big pharma) made growth hormone and growth hormone made in China?
Answer:
Other than 90/10 price difference ratio, both are identical. Western big pharma corporations use exactly the same production procedure (recombinant DNA technology) and equipment as Chinese labs. Chinese laws regarding GMP and safety of medicine related products are stricter than those in the west.
The identification, purification and later synthesis of growth hormone was first accomplished by a Chinese pioneer Choh Hao Li. Nowadays almost everything used in the west is made in China (or Asia at least) - both the high quality products as well as the low quality copies.
Human growth hormone (somatropin) is a large and fragile, 191 amino acid sequence molecule with a molecular weight of approximately 22,000 Daltons. There is no room for differences. The substance is either somatropin or it is not. If the molecule gets distorted even a little, it will no longer bind to growth hormone receptors.
The reason Chinese goods are often seen as inferior is the vast availability of cheap copies of everything (clothes, electronics, etc..) which visually appear the same as original but are composed of cheaper, inferior material and are thus lower quality and less durable. With production of somatropin this is not possible. The necessary equipment to even create it, comes at a multi million dollar price, so steroid "bathtub" labs are not capable of making it.
The only somatropin manufacturing method which is still used today (both in the west and asia) is the recombinant DNA technology, where E. Coli bacteria are genetically modified to secrete human growth hormone, which is then isolated and can be either lyophilized (freeze dried) or stored in the liquid form.
While somatropin is in the liquid form, it is very sensitive to temperature and shaking. If not refrigerated and handled with care the molecules easily get destroyed. While in freeze dried state, somatropin is not sensitive to shaking and it can survive temperatures up to 45 degrees celsius (113 fahrenheit). Because of this, it is only transported in lyophilized form.
what type of hgh do/did you use? nice pic in flex too btw.
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what type of hgh do/did you use? nice pic in flex too btw.
pretty sure he is using "thegreytop" I'm sure he used the old rips as well. maybe he will chime in.
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Chinese HGH is just a knockoff of real pharma GH. Looks and feel a bit similar but not on the same level.
Just buy a real Gucci wallet and get a knockoff from China, put them side to side, looks the same but look closely one is crap the other is high quality and durable.
Same with GH.
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An interesting read from somatropin.cn:-
Which is the best human growth hormone?
Answer:
There is no such thing as "the best HGH" the substance is either real growth hormone (somatropin) or it is NOT! Human growth hormone is a very fragile, large molecule which is comprised of 191 amino acids, linked in very specific order and shaped to very specific form. In that regard there is no room for differences!
Note: It is NOT POSSIBLE to take human growth hormone as a supplement in spray, pill or sticker patch form! Sprays, pills and patches are marketing scams used by the supplement pushers. The growth hormone molecule is too fragile to survive room temperatures or vigorous shaking. It is also too big to pass through the skin. If you read the fine print you will usually find a note that there is no actual growth hormone but rather "growth hormone promoter" which is supposed to make your body produce more of its own growth hormone.
There are some things that set the actual HGH brands apart though:
it can either be real 191 amino acid sequence ( somatropin), or it can be 192 amino acid sequence (somatrem) which is actually a growth hormone mimic with potentially nasty side effects
it can be pure high quality HGH (comes at a higher price), or it can be cheaply produced and contain bacterial residue left over from the manufacturing process
it can be bought through a doctors prescription (high price), or it can be bought on the black market (in which case you have to be extra careful as most of the brands are counterfeit, containing hgh of questionable origin if it's real at all). If buying from a non reputable source, you should always have the HGH lab tested
it can be produced in USA / EU (comes at absurdly high prices due to big pharma monopoly of the western markets), or it can be produced in Asia (China, Korea, India, etc.) in which case there are quality/purity differences from brand to brand
it can be in liquid form (very fragile, sensitive to room temperatures and shaking) or it can be in lyophilized - freeze dried powder form (suitable for shipping world wide). Never buy liquid form on the black market because there is no way of knowing how it was handled before you got it
it can be authentic (contains what it claims), or it can be counterfeit in which case scammers relabel vials of questionable origin and make them look like original, then offer them at "too good to be true" prices to lure in the victims
various brands come at differently dosed vials. The dosage/strength per vial can be 4IU, 10IU, 12IU, 40IU which does not really matter as long as the price per IU is right
So which is the best HGH?
To recap the above differences - growth hormone can be either real or not, high purity or low purity, western or asian priced, liquid or freeze dried and it comes packed in differently dosed vials. The best growth hormone would then obviously be the high purity, 191 amino acid sequence, freeze dried, original and realistically priced one.
High quality brands:
Genotropin (191 amino acid, high purity, produced by Pfizer, Inc, USA)
Humatrope (191 amino acid, high purity, produced by Eli Lilly and Company, USA)
Hypertropin (191 amino acid, high purity, produced by Neogenica Bioscience Ltd, China)
Jintropin (191 amino acid, high purity, produced by GeneScience Pharmaceuticals Co., Ltd, China)
Norditropin (191 amino acid, high purity, produced by Novo Nordisk Inc, USA)
Nutropin (191 amino acid, high purity, produced by Genentech USA, Inc, USA)
Saizen (191 amino acid, high purity, produced by EMD Serono, Inc, USA)
Serostim (191 amino acid, high purity, produced by EMD Serono, Inc, USA)
Zorbtive (191 amino acid, high purity, produced by EMD Serono, Inc, USA)
Medium quality brands:
Ansomone (used to be 192 but is now 191 amino acid, medium purity, produced by Anhui Anke Biotechnology Co., Ltd, China)
Hygetropin (191 amino acid, medium purity, produced by Zhongshan Hygene Biopharm Co., Ltd, China)
Tev-Tropin (191 amino acid, medium purity, produced by Teva Pharmaceuticals, USA)
Zomacton (191 amino acid, medium purity, produced by Ferring Pharmaceuticals Pty Ltd, Australia)
Low or questionable quality brands:
Fitropin (this product has been discontinued, it was produced by Shenzhen Kexing Biotech Co., Ltd, China)
Getropin (relabelled generic of unknown origin)
Glotropin (relabelled generic of unknown origin)
Kefei (191 amino acid, low purity, produced by Shanghai United Kefei Biotechnology Co., Ltd, China)
Kigtropin (relabelled generic of questionable origin, known to cause immune response, different reviews from batch to batch)
Riptropin (relabelled generic of unknown origin, mostly present on the UK black market, different reviews from batch to batch)
Taitropin (relabelled generic of unknown origin, presumably associated with Kigtropin)
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It's pretty simple.... Any HGH produced by an ACTUAL licensed pharmaceutical company(Serono, Lilly, Pfizer, Genentech, Sandoz, etc.) is the best GH. There will be subtle differences in different brands, but they're all essentially the same.
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Just found the read and wanted to share. See what you guys though of it.
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Just found the read and wanted to share. See what you guys though of it.
Where did you find this?
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Where did you find this?
somatropin .cn/difference.html
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somatropin .cn/difference.html
".cn" So it's a Chinese website?
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".cn" So it's a Chinese website?
Lol. They do have a point though. LEGIT pharmacy Chinese HGH is just as good as USA or European, but this includes only two brands - Jintropin and Hygetropin (only from Hygetropin.cn). Both are Chinese pharma grade. Ps - you won't find legit Jintropin outside of China now, but if you do, please let me know!!
I also think they have a good point on the quality control. The only "off" pharmacy HGH I have ever used is the latest Pfizer Genotropin I have received which went cloudy and has stayed cloudy on mixing. Very disappointing indeed. Having said that, the source could have ruined it by freezing it. He's also refusing to refund me, promising it is still perfect to use, which directly contradicts EVERYTHING I have read. Oh well.
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".cn" So it's a Chinese website?
Someone registered it that way, but doesn't look like a typical Chinese attempt at English. Hard to say what's up w it (haven't looked too closely, yet).
It looks as though it says that a product either has the (intact) chain or it doesn't, and beyond that it is only a question of whether bacteria is present.
Other than that, it says an extended chain could have bad consequences (haven't seen many ppl discuss this part).
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Lol. They do have a point though. LEGIT pharmacy Chinese HGH is just as good as USA or European, but this includes only two brands - Jintropin and Hygetropin (only from Hygetropin.cn). Both are Chinese pharma grade. Ps - you won't find legit Jintropin outside of China now, but if you do, please let me know!!
I also think they have a good point on the quality control. The only "off" pharmacy HGH I have ever used is the latest Pfizer Genotropin I have received which went cloudy and has stayed cloudy on mixing. Very disappointing indeed. Having said that, the source could have ruined it by freezing it. He's also refusing to refund me, promising it is still perfect to use, which directly contradicts EVERYTHING I have read. Oh well.
Hygetropin is not pharm grade GH.
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Someone registered it that way, but doesn't look like a typical Chinese attempt at English. Hard to say what's up w it (haven't looked too closely, yet).
It looks as though it says that a product either has the (intact) chain or it doesn't, and beyond that it is only a question of whether bacteria is present.
Other than that, it says an extended chain could have bad consequences (haven't seen many ppl discuss this part).
Fillers are a big thing as well
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Fillers are a big thing as well
Adding fillers in a way to displace the active ingredient?
Makes sense. But GH is an unknown to me, I'll be the first to admit.
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Graytops from the right source work great.
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Hygetropin is not pharm grade GH.
You're right. When I used to use Hygetropin a few years ago, I always thought they were a generic, but I had heard more recently that the real Hygetropins by Dr. Lin are pharma grade. After a little research, it seems that is not the case. I think the only pharma grade hgh from China is, in fact, Jintropin, which most westerners cannot get their hands on any more.
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Ansomone made by Anhui Anke Bio is pharm GH from China. Not sure if it's available anymore, but that was the only GH in China that was made by an actual pharmaceutical company.
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I know 1 guy in my gym he is 38 and rich
He say he do 8iu ed lily humatrope .. Duno what the fuck he doing but he is fucken huge and ripped .. When i go next to him the diference is like me beside my girl lol
I never done gh and by the sound of what he spending .. I never will :-)
I told him once about gh kit 200 euro/100 iu and he laughed .. He said " beter get more test and deca/tren"
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Ansomone made by Anhui Anke Bio is pharm GH from China. Not sure if it's available anymore, but that was the only GH in China that was made by an actual pharmaceutical company.
Whilst Ansomone is made in a licenced lab, I don't believe it is pharma grade. They definitely don't have it at the hospitals, only Jintropin. I have read conflicting reports. Apparently it even used to be 192aa. I've personally used it for 6 months and didn't rate it at all. I've even enjoyed generic blue tops better. Very expensive too. Not Genotropin expensive, but still.
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Have you guys heard of Norvotrop, Arcotop, and Boostropin?
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all fancy website shit. COMPLETE fucking shit. just get legit Pharm or don't use any at all homo boy. unless it's legitimate and Pharma you are NOT injecting rhGH no matter what anyone claims or thinks that it does. END OF FUCKING STORY, when will people learn this shit. too much wishful thinking and fantasizing.
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I wish i knew how to get my hands on some pharma gh, which pharma brand would you opt for?
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all fancy website shit. COMPLETE fucking shit. just get legit Pharm or don't use any at all homo boy. unless it's legitimate and Pharma you are NOT injecting rhGH no matter what anyone claims or thinks that it does. END OF FUCKING STORY, when will people learn this shit. too much wishful thinking and fantasizing.
No, you don't have the final word on generic HGH. All bodybuilders that have turned pro has used a lot of Chinese gh as they were coming up. Not all of them are idiots and will pay for something that produced no results. Even at $3/iu it's still a lot of money when you are using 10ius/day.
How do you explain all those that get a blood test after injecting certain brands of Chinese HGH and it clearly shows a blood concentration level far above the reference range?
The idea that the Chinese can't make real black market HGH is just not true. Any drug can be made and sold on the black market.
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No, you don't have the final word on generic HGH. All bodybuilders that have turned pro has used a lot of Chinese gh as they were coming up. Not all of them are idiots and will pay for something that produced no results. Even at $3/iu it's still a lot of money when you are using 10ius/day.
How do you explain all those that get a blood test after injecting certain brands of Chinese HGH and it clearly shows a blood concentration level far above the reference range?
The idea that the Chinese can't make real black market HGH is just not true. Any drug can be made and sold on the black market.
I certainly do the have the final word on generic GH. you sound like your 12 years old, "boo hoo, it's just not true" homo boy, ANY drug can be "made" on the BLACK MARKET does that make it REAL? why don't you just think about that for a few secs.
DO YOU REALLY THINK, that they are going to bother to create REAL and LEGITIMATE FORM recombinant human growth hormone?? yeah just for you and all your pals that buy generics "here guys lets do them a favor and give them something special from our hearts!" they will con the fuck out of you if you believe that generic "gh" is real recombinant growth hormone you are getting. these are money makers and slimy business men you are dealing with. didn't mama teach you anything? some people are NAIVE beyond belief! they will use your own weakness against you to scam you to shreds ALL THE MEANWHILE you are grinning like a fucking idiot with your "GH".
K, i know the type of person you are. you are reinforcing yourself that all that chinese chemical factory GH (ie. ghrp, ghrh) that you bought ONLINE (lol if you only knew how you can get cheap, real pharma GH in bulk for cheappp it ain't online, bodybuilders R NOT RICH!) was all legitimate rhGH. meanwhile deep inside you knew something was wrong and not exactly living up to your expectation, meanwhile you were reading all over fucking internet forums that its all legit and "gtg bro" and its JUST enough for some fucking delusional idiot to say he went from 5"9 240lb 12% to 220% 6% ALL ON 10iu of "generics" and 600mg test E for the whole fucking steroid internet boards to spew out shit like this.
"hey guys look at these blood tests, see! see! it's real" means fucking BULLSHIT IDIOT. meanwhile you ARE NOT INJECTING YOURSELF WITH GROWTH FUCKING HORMONE, however you are experiencing except numb hands, carpal tunnel and water retention everywhere thinking the GH is in your blood and doing it's magic now.
get your fucking head out yur arse idiot... if you were on growth.hormone. you. will. know. GENERICS ARE NOT GROWTH.. FUCKING.. HORMONE.. recombinant, human, growth, hormone.. gh is fucking expensive and real stuff is special and is worth gold, and the changes in EVERYTHING are instant. you will know if you are on REAL growth ie. pharma at anything over 6 iu ED you will feel great and KNOW it after a week
"how dare you say generic gh sucks, its cheap and it works" = No it doesn't. its CHEAP cause THEY prey on fucking idiots like you and others who are cheapskates / greedy kunts / fucking losers (ie. white widow and MANY MORE) / wanna-be Bodybuidlers, to buy THEIR THEIR THEIR shit instead of REAL stuff because YOU GUYS wouldn't buy the real shit at top price and they KNOW THIS AND THEN invented their own little market suitable and catering to fuckwits like you. do you understand NOW gh boy.
they KNOW and they will sell shit to you and make a buck and a half profit off your sorry dumb ass. END OF STORY.
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I certainly do the have the final word on generic GH. you sound like your 12 years old, "boo hoo, it's just not true" homo boy, ANY drug can be "made" on the BLACK MARKET does that make it REAL? why don't you just think about that for a few secs.
DO YOU REALLY THINK, that they are going to bother to create REAL and LEGITIMATE FORM recombinant human growth hormone?? yeah just for you and all your pals that buy generics "here guys lets do them a favor and give them something special from our hearts!" they will con the fuck out of you if you believe that generic "gh" is real recombinant growth hormone you are getting. these are money makers and slimy business men you are dealing with. didn't mama teach you anything? some people are NAIVE beyond belief! they will use your own weakness against you to scam you to shreds ALL THE MEANWHILE you are grinning like a fucking idiot with your "GH".
K, i know the type of person you are. you are reinforcing yourself that all that chinese chemical factory GH (ie. ghrp, ghrh) that you bought ONLINE (lol if you only knew how you can get cheap, real pharma GH in bulk for cheappp it ain't online, bodybuilders R NOT RICH!) was all legitimate rhGH. meanwhile deep inside you knew something was wrong and not exactly living up to your expectation, meanwhile you were reading all over fucking internet forums that its all legit and "gtg bro" and its JUST enough for some fucking delusional idiot to say he went from 5"9 240lb 12% to 220% 6% ALL ON 10iu of "generics" and 600mg test E for the whole fucking steroid internet boards to spew out shit like this.
"hey guys look at these blood tests, see! see! it's real" means fucking BULLSHIT IDIOT. meanwhile you ARE NOT INJECTING YOURSELF WITH GROWTH FUCKING HORMONE, however you are experiencing except numb hands, carpal tunnel and water retention everywhere thinking the GH is in your blood and doing it's magic now.
get your fucking head out yur arse idiot... if you were on growth.hormone. you. will. know. GENERICS ARE NOT GROWTH.. FUCKING.. HORMONE.. recombinant, human, growth, hormone.. gh is fucking expensive and real stuff is special and is worth gold, and the changes in EVERYTHING are instant. you will know if you are on REAL growth ie. pharma at anything over 6 iu ED you will feel great and KNOW it after a week
"how dare you say generic gh sucks, its cheap and it works" = No it doesn't. its CHEAP cause THEY prey on fucking idiots like you and others who are cheapskates / greedy kunts / fucking losers (ie. white widow and MANY MORE) / wanna-be Bodybuidlers, to buy THEIR THEIR THEIR shit instead of REAL stuff because YOU GUYS wouldn't buy the real shit at top price and they KNOW THIS AND THEN invented their own little market suitable and catering to fuckwits like you. do you understand NOW gh boy.
they KNOW and they will sell shit to you and make a buck and a half profit off your sorry dumb ass. END OF STORY.
Just read your first paragraph. Despite your bragging, you don't have the last word on anything and nobody -- NOBODY -- but you thinks that you do. Nobody cares what you think. You're a nobody. Our own Dr. J used generics. Your hero, gh15, considered a certain Chinese gh the best ever made. Every pro has used Chinese generics. You sound like a child.
Epic meltdown, btw. Shows your frustration. Reminds me of a baby pounding his spoon sitting in his high chair.
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WHATEVER helps you sleep at night you fucking loser, i love you are such a gullible fucking idiot to think that gh15 is my idol.. he is a fucking loser just like YOU and the rest of GETBIG. goodbye forever fuckwits!
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WHATEVER helps you sleep at night you fucking loser, i love you are such a gullible fucking idiot to think that gh15 is my idol.. he is a fucking loser just like YOU and the rest of GETBIG. goodbye forever fuckwits!
Another mind I owned. Another ass clown I've driven off the board.
But you'll come crawling back.
They always do.
Say, hi to gh15 for me. Ask if he's had his Luna level security status renewed. Miss the pineapple and sushi.
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Wow why the frustration. Anyways, just wondering on something. Is it normal that my generic growth is making me breakout at 10units a day? I use boostropin at the moment. Started around 2 months ago
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Wow why the frustration. Anyways, just wondering on something. Is it normal that my generic growth is making me breakout at 10units a day? I use boostropin at the moment. Started around 2 months ago
It's definitely not the hgh that is causing you to break out. Even if it's not hgh and instead a peptide blend, it's not causing you to break out.
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Wow why the frustration. Anyways, just wondering on something. Is it normal that my generic growth is making me breakout at 10units a day? I use boostropin at the moment. Started around 2 months ago
You've got to be kidding right? Boostropin?
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You've got to be kidding right? Boostropin?
my thoughts exactly. lol, must have been the Halloween sequenced hgh
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I am thinking it's my hgh because i started high dosage 10units a day from the start. At that dosage, igf levels are elevated and for some people igf causes acne. Or maybe unpure hgh, but i use bac water. After pinning it i start feeling more and more hungry slowly, not like ghrp2 though where it is nearly strong instant hunger and has something to do with gherlin. It's more of a natural hunger. Also makes me hold water which i expect from generics, but it's also giving me vascularity and size. Another thing, i was maybe thinking it's hcg, because it jacks test and increases estrogen, and believe it or not i gave my gh a pregnancy test, got not result. Some companies have ways of bypassing that test.
I will be switching for Norvotrop, what do you guys think of it?
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I think you're joking, hopefully. If you're using some shit called Boostropin, you're not using GH. Who knows what's in the vial. Don't bother getting Norvotrop either, because that's not a name of any GH either. Take a step back and do some research, it's gonna save you a lot of money in the long run.
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neither GH not IGF gives anyone acne..
higher GH levels will drastically increase your skin quality.
youre also far away from the point that you would need GH at at all
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Norvotrop hss good reviews but it's alot more expensive
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WHATEVER helps you sleep at night you fucking loser, i love you are such a gullible fucking idiot to think that gh15 is my idol.. he is a fucking loser just like YOU and the rest of GETBIG. goodbye forever fuckwits!
tiotal meldown after 152 post only, is this a new record?
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Odd that some will discount the gh serum test done by a legit lab. That somehow the Chinese can come up with a compound that exactly mimics the hgh peptide but can't actually produce hgh.
Recent gh serum test (11/4/2015) of a Chinese gh currently on the market. Reference range is 2-9. You're looking for a 20 but 18 is still acceptable considering the price. The last rest about six months ago was at 23.
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That test is from The Grey Top. Supposedly come from the same place that Rips came from. Like Rips, a lot of guys get a lot of water on these.
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Odd that some will discount the gh serum test done by a legit lab. That somehow the Chinese can come up with a compound that exactly mimics the hgh peptide but can't actually produce hgh.
Recent gh serum test (11/4/2015) of a Chinese gh currently on the market. Reference range is 2-9. You're looking for a 20 but 18 is still acceptable considering the price. The last rest about six months ago was at 23.
This result was after taking how many iu?
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This result was after taking how many iu?
id say 10iu given that score
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This result was after taking how many iu?
For these tests to be meaningful it has to be consistent. Following the same procedure. The accepted procedure involves injecting 10ius into the deltoid muscle (not subcutaneously) and wait around 3 hours to have blood drawn. This has been done on both generics and pharm grade hgh. Pharm grade consistently tests in the high 20s and sometimes low 30s.
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That test is from The Grey Top. Supposedly come from the same place that Rips came from. Like Rips, a lot of guys get a lot of water on these.
I have a close friend that had one, and very bad experience, with the Rips. Within a week he had a moon face and swollen ankles. His socks would leave prints on his legs. I saw it for myself. He has been on the Greys for two months now and has had no problems with water retention. He was using 4 ius of the Rips and is currently using 6 ius of the Greys.
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I'm sure that's after 10 iu, but there is more to GH than a serum score. Legit Serostim scores lower than that a lot of times, and Serostim blows any generic out of the water. I gave the Greys a shot, and instant water retention. Face, hands, ankles, feet. Resting heart rate was increased, and a warm, flushed feeling all day. GH does not do that, ever. You may get some water retention initially, but not like that. With Serostim, my hands feel tight a lot, but they aren't visibly swollen. I just don't know what else is in these that causes these sides, but not willing to find out. With pharm you know what you're getting in every single vial.
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I wish i knew how to get my hands on some pharma gh, which pharma brand would you opt for?
Not sure where you are from but the 36 iu geno pens are the best bang for your buck in the u.s it seams.(well thats threw my sources) Talking quality growth of course, obviously cheaper mid grade growth
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I'm sure that's after 10 iu, but there is more to GH than a serum score. Legit Serostim scores lower than that a lot of times, and Serostim blows any generic out of the water. I gave the Greys a shot, and instant water retention. Face, hands, ankles, feet. Resting heart rate was increased, and a warm, flushed feeling all day. GH does not do that, ever. You may get some water retention initially, but not like that. With Serostim, my hands feel tight a lot, but they aren't visibly swollen. I just don't know what else is in these that causes these sides, but not willing to find out. With pharm you know what you're getting in every single vial.
No one argues that generics are on par with pharm grade gh. That has never, ever been the issue. The issue, the only issue, is cost.
Not everyone can afford or justify the cost for pharm grade HGH. Many have use Chinese gh with success.
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Not sure where you are from but the 36 iu geno pens are the best bang for your buck in the u.s it seams.(well thats threw my sources) Talking quality growth of course, obviously cheaper mid grade growth
How much do you get them for and how much do you take?
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Update: living in a Chinese city now, went to a pharmacy and bought Jintropin, pharmacist pulled it out of the refrigerator. Think it's legit because the codes checked out and it's doing everything it's supposed to: better sleep, skin, fat loss. No CTS or water retention whatsoever (doing 3IUs everyday). Will do bloods in a month's time and report back.
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I don't even think all pharma hgh is created equal. I notice way more water retention on one brand over another and have even noticed differences between one lot number and another. I think the differences is with the preservatives and if they are degraded from temps. My favorite gh brands are the genotropin 36iu pen and the 30iu nordtroipin pen for 2 reasons, 1. they are rated to be stable at room temp and 2) harder to counterfeit. Just my thoughts....
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I don't even think all pharma hgh is created equal. I notice way more water retention on one brand over another and have even noticed differences between one lot number and another. I think the differences is with the preservatives and if they are degraded from temps. My favorite gh brands are the genotropin 36iu pen and the 30iu nordtroipin pen for 2 reasons, 1. they are rated to be stable at room temp and 2) harder to counterfeit. Just my thoughts....
Both are very easily counterfeited. Also, they must both be refrigerated all the time, so not sure about the stable at room temp comment, because they only are for a short period of time. I spoke with a rep for Merck Serono, and he said Saizen pens are actually stable for up to 7 days at room temperature, then degradation starts. Actually the only sure way you're getting legit pharma GH is if you get it with a script on it from an American pharmacy, or from a script holder that rips the script off. Serostim is able to be kept at room temp before being mixed, so no need to worry about how it was stored. The rest must be refrigerated all the time. I would never trust anyone to store it properly, especially if shipped from overseas. If you're getting any other brand, then you have to trust whoever you purchased it from that they stored it properly. The differences in water retention are due to the fillers that different companies use, and how your body reacts to them. You have to find which works best for you. I always go with Serostim as my main GH because I never have to worry about it being stored properly, and it comes with script on box, 100% legit every single time. Also has multiple anti-counterfeiting measures with it.
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Bottom line... Chinese HGH is SHIT! You simply dont know what you are putting in your body and blowing up like a water buffalo is NOT a valid sign of real HGH or its effectiveness.
When it comes to HGH, there is no "generic", low-grade, or mid-grade.... there is simply real or fake and the Chinese shit is fake! My god, who knows what kind of fucked up shit you are putting in your body.
If you cant pay for legit pharma HGH, then dont waste your time or money!
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Bottom line... Chinese HGH is SHIT! You simply dont know what you are putting in your body and blowing up like a water buffalo is NOT a valid sign of real HGH or its effectiveness.
When it comes to HGH, there is no "generic", low-grade, or mid-grade.... there is simply real or fake and the Chinese shit is fake! My god, who knows what kind of fucked up shit you are putting in your body.
If you cant pay for legit pharma HGH, then dont waste your time or money!
I don't know why people continue to say this when HGH can be tested. A certain brand of gh has been tested several times using the serum test, it has been tested using the igf test after a baseline has been determined and even a mass spec has been done. These test, done by a variety of users all indicated it was HGH. The Serum test with a reference value at 0-2.9 weighed in a over 20. And, though the igf levels varied among individuals due to how their body, their liver, process it, the levels experience a marked increase showing beyond a doubt that the gh was doing what it was suppose to do. With the mass spec, which is the Gold Standard and can't get any better than that, show the potency and the purity of the product to be more than adequate. Note the potency of this gh tested and it's purity (98.5%) selling for under $300 for 10 vials.
To say that the Chinese can't produce legit gh is simply wrong and has been proven over and over again. Everyone on the pro stage has used Chinese gh with success. If it was ALL fake ALL the time it wouldn't be on the market. Not everybody is that stupid paying big bucks, even when it comes to generics, only to have it do nothing.
The patent for hgh has run out over a decade ago. It's not that expensive to produce. It's amino acids. The cost was in the Research and Development to come up with the right sequence, the testing, getting the approval, getting it market. But that's all been done now. The pharm companies don't want to come out with pharm grade generics because they don't want the average person to have easy access to them. It would greatly reduce or eliminate a lot of ailments that they are so invested in.
They want to keep you healthy. Just not too healthy.
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There are a big difference.. the risk to lose your hard earned money...
This is how look a blod test after one week taking real one HGH (Humatrope)
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I don't know why people continue to say this when HGH can be tested. A certain brand of gh has been tested several times using the serum test, it has been tested using the igf test after a baseline has been determined and even a mass spec has been done. These test, done by a variety of users all indicated it was HGH. The Serum test with a reference value at 0-2.9 weighed in a over 20. And, though the igf levels varied among individuals due to how their body, their liver, process it, the levels experience a marked increase showing beyond a doubt that the gh was doing what it was suppose to do. With the mass spec, which is the Gold Standard and can't get any better than that, show the potency and the purity of the product to be more than adequate. Note the potency of this gh tested and it's purity (98.5%) selling for under $300 for 10 vials.
To say that the Chinese can't produce legit gh is simply wrong and has been proven over and over again. Everyone on the pro stage has used Chinese gh with success. If it was ALL fake ALL the time it wouldn't be on the market. Not everybody is that stupid paying big bucks, even when it comes to generics, only to have it do nothing.
The patent for hgh has run out over a decade ago. It's not that expensive to produce. It's amino acids. The cost was in the Research and Development to come up with the right sequence, the testing, getting the approval, getting it market. But that's all been done now. The pharm companies don't want to come out with pharm grade generics because they don't want the average person to have easy access to them. It would greatly reduce or eliminate a lot of ailments that they are so invested in.
They want to keep you healthy. Just not too healthy.
This is the puretropin shit from the fuckhead HGH pro that is now scamming people. Chinese GH is shit, period. The Grey tops were good, but still there is a difference in water retention between them and pharma GH, and I've heard they have switched producers, so who knows what is going on with them now. One vial might be right on, but the rest of the vials in the same kit are half dosed, or have nothing at all in them. For the idiots that say 'well, I will just double the dose to equal pharm grade.' Taking more of a shit product is not going to make up for low quality junk. Never ever is there a worry about pharm GH being improperly dosed from vial to vial. It is all dosed properly, and more importantly pure. Pros using chinese junk? Maybe the flat broke bottom feeders are that can't afford legit GH, but thats it. The vast majority are using pharma GH. 98% purity for GH? Pharma is more pure than that, and that 1% or so is a huge difference when you're talking about GH.
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This is the puretropin shit from the fuckhead HGH pro that is now scamming people. Chinese GH is shit, period. The Grey tops were good, but still there is a difference in water retention between them and pharma GH, and I've heard they have switched producers, so who knows what is going on with them now. One vial might be right on, but the rest of the vials in the same kit are half dosed, or have nothing at all in them. For the idiots that say 'well, I will just double the dose to equal pharm grade.' Taking more of a shit product is not going to make up for low quality junk. Never ever is there a worry about pharm GH being improperly dosed from vial to vial. It is all dosed properly, and more importantly pure. Pros using chinese junk? Maybe the flat broke bottom feeders are that can't afford legit GH, but thats it. The vast majority are using pharma GH. 98% purity for GH? Pharma is more pure than that, and that 1% or so is a huge difference when you're talking about GH.
And pharma is widely faked as well and the financial loss is much, much greater. And the puretropins have been tested several times by different users, using igf testing, serum testing and mass specs. They all came up good.
And to be clear, I said everyone on the pro stage HAS used generics in the past. That is far, far different than saying that by the time someone is a pro that they are relying on generics.
The fact of the matter is that not everyone, in fact, most, cannot afford or even have reliable access, to pharmaceutical grade gh. That is just a fact. I know guys like you like to say that then they should do something else or just do without. Not me. If you want to do something then you can find a way. At some point, if you want to advance in bbing you have to take gh. Financial limitations are very real. People make great gains all the time on generic gh. I've seen it and I've experienced it myself.
But in the end, it's a moot point. It's great that you can afford pharm hgh and I don't know why you care that others don't. But in reality, nobody is listening to you or cares what you think. This is not an insult just reality. People know it works and I don't think a single person that is serious about bbing and wants to advance has ever listened to or taken heed of those like you that claim that NO Chinese gh is good (except the Grey tops, but once you make an exception then your entire premise is discounted) no matter how stupid you think they are. I have known many who consider guys like you who insist on only pharm grade as being stupid because they are spending thousands of dollars on a product that gives them zero financial return except nice muscles which will be gone in a couple of decades. Money that if saved and invested could have been turned into a fortune. I know a guy who actually took out a bank loan (10 grand) just so he could buy pharma gh. And it worked, he made a very noticeable transformation in the next two years and though he didn't compete he got a lot of compliments on his body. But then the money ran out and he slowly reverted back to Clark Kent. But hey, it was a good two years and he still has that one bedroom apartment and Toyota Corolla. Those cars last forever.
But I've won the argument already. Not that that was my intention. I overlooked the fact that by mentioning Chinese gh that tested well I'd now be deluged with PMs asking for that source. How many requests have you had looking for pharm grade hookups?
Exactly, no one is listening or cares. I get it, we're all stupid.
BTW, everyone stop with the PMs. I'm not going to start referring sources on this board.