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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Waller on December 04, 2015, 07:56:00 AM

Title: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: Waller on December 04, 2015, 07:56:00 AM
Did he take a break after the O? He looks shocking here, worse than some amateurs.  :-\


Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: Waller on December 04, 2015, 07:57:38 AM
.

Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: muscularny on December 04, 2015, 07:58:06 AM
Did he take a break after the O? He looks shocking here, worse than some amateurs.  :-\



not bad at all for off season
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: NaturalWonder83 on December 04, 2015, 08:00:30 AM
not bad at all for off season
he looks fine
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: falco on December 04, 2015, 08:00:49 AM
Water retention of peace... Where did his back go????
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: local hero on December 04, 2015, 08:08:01 AM
Water retention of peace... Where did his back go????


Dunno, his arms have went to find it...
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: Waller on December 04, 2015, 08:08:49 AM
Water retention of peace... Where did his back go????

And chest. I know he's holding water, but you can normally see the size underneath.

There were pics of Dex too, also bloofy. But you could see the size there. I can't find the post again to grab his pics.
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: Twaddle on December 04, 2015, 08:10:00 AM
The Black Trey Brewer
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: Nether Animal on December 04, 2015, 08:10:24 AM
Lower back creases of peaces.
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: King Shizzo on December 04, 2015, 08:11:00 AM
Water retention of peace... Where did his back go????
His lower back is genetically shit. Which is why he will never win an Olympia.

Genetics and muscle insertions are every bit as important, as size and conditioning.
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: falco on December 04, 2015, 08:13:27 AM
The Black Trey Brewer
(http://replygif.net/i/590.gif)
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: King Shizzo on December 04, 2015, 08:14:32 AM
(http://replygif.net/i/590.gif)
Oh Louie!
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: affeman on December 04, 2015, 08:17:20 AM
So that's what the Mr. Olympia runner-up looks like in 2015 :-X

(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=587879.0;attach=661035;image)
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: Parker on December 04, 2015, 08:18:59 AM
His lower back is genetically shit. Which is why he will never win an Olympia.

Genetics and muscle insertions are every bit as important, as size and conditioning.
I beg to differ. Rhoden came on the scene a little bit later. You normally see backs like his when the bber doesn't train it like the others (intensity, mind-muscle connection, work the middle)---Phil, Ronnie, Shawn Ray, Dex, Flex, Cormier, Kai, Dorian, etc. But, when one trains like Jay one gets Jay Cutler like results.
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: affeman on December 04, 2015, 08:19:34 AM
I wonder who the ladies prefer? ::)

(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=587879.0;attach=661035;image) (http://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/7a/3b/f2/7a3bf251176c2b1acda180c592fa8a02.jpg)
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: milone79 on December 04, 2015, 08:19:44 AM
water balloon of peace............zero back of peace.......modern IFBB of peace
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: King Shizzo on December 04, 2015, 08:23:16 AM
I beg to differ. Rhoden came on the scene a little bit later. You normally see backs like his when the bber doesn't train it like the others (intensity, mind-muscle connection, work the middle)---Phil, Ronnie, Shawn Ray, Dex, Flex, Cormier, Kai, Dorian, etc. But, when one trains like Jay one gets Jay Cutler like results.
Sorry Parker, but you can't fix muscle insertions. Rhoden will always have a half-developed, inferior back.
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: Fortress on December 04, 2015, 08:23:47 AM
Another drug creation.
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: Parker on December 04, 2015, 08:28:10 AM
Sorry Parker, but you can't fix muscle insertions. Rhoden will always have a half-developed, inferior back.
His back was better this year than last. And he improved last year over the year before. It's not about insertions, but about the thickness and detail.
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: Waller on December 04, 2015, 08:31:16 AM
Sorry Parker, but you can't fix muscle insertions. Rhoden will always have a half-developed, inferior back.

His lats don't insert very high. They're just lacking thickness, the same as his spinal erectors are.
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: King Shizzo on December 04, 2015, 08:32:06 AM
His back was better this year than last. And he improved last year over the year before. It's not about insertions, but about the thickness and detail.
Its about how his muscles are put together. He looks like he is missing his lower back. It's not about lack of training, or improvements he can make. Rhoden's back is simply not as aesthetically pleasing as other top pros.
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: Waller on December 04, 2015, 08:35:07 AM
Its about how his muscles are put together. He looks like he is missing his lower back. It's not about lack of training, or improvements he can make. Rhoden's back is simply not as aesthetically pleasing as other top pros.

.....because it isn't developed as well... I'm not sure if you're trolling or just don't have a clue about bodybuilding....  :D
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: King Shizzo on December 04, 2015, 08:38:38 AM
.....because it isn't developed as well... I'm not sure if you're trolling or just don't have a clue about bodybuilding....  :D
You can't develop insertions that aren't there. Rhoden is muscularly mature, meaning that he can only make slight improvements to what he already has. It is simple anatomy and physiology. Rhoden's back will never look complete.
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: lilhawk1 on December 04, 2015, 08:41:49 AM
Maybe he should try doing a deadlift.  Reverse hypers, and deadlifts.  If those don't add thickness nothing will.  My guess is hardly any pros do either one as that would require some effort.
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: Waller on December 04, 2015, 08:43:09 AM
You can't develop insertions that aren't there. Rhoden is muscularly mature, meaning that he can only make slight improvements to wha he already has. It is simple anatomy and physiology. Rhoden's back will never look complete.

Why do you keep mentioning insertions? I've just highlighted in that picture how his lats don't insert high. Meaning he has muscle situated on his lower back that can be grown.

You're like an armchair quarter back. Your expertise in bodybuilding comes from looking at photos of finished products and videos. I've seen no evidence that you've taken yourself through those stages, yet you have knowledge of exactly how big Rhoden is able to get?

His back could be more muscular. I have no idea why it's lacking, but it is not because of insertions.
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: King Shizzo on December 04, 2015, 08:48:39 AM
Why do you keep mentioning insertions? I've just highlighted in that picture how his lats don't insert high. Meaning he has muscle situated on his lower back that can be grown.

You're like an armchair quarter back. Your expertise in bodybuilding comes from looking at photos of finished products and videos. I've seen no evidence that you've taken yourself through those stages, yet you have knowledge of exactly how big Rhoden is able to get?

His back could be more muscular. I have no idea why it's lacking, but it is not because of insertions.
Bodybuilding is an art mixed with politics (like Getbig) Rhoden is a top contender, but his back will always be at an aesthetic disadvantage. His goal should be to dominate in other areas.
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: Waller on December 04, 2015, 08:50:03 AM
Bodybuilding is an art mixed with politics (like Getbig) Rhoden is a top contender, but his back will always be at an aesthetic disadvantage. His goal should be to dominate in other areas.

How do you know?

Why do you keep claiming he has high lat insertions?
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: King Shizzo on December 04, 2015, 08:52:08 AM
How do you know?

Why do you keep claiming he has high lat insertions?
The pictures/video prove everything. He will never have the best back in the final callout.
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: El Diablo Blanco on December 04, 2015, 08:53:58 AM
I wonder who the ladies prefer? ::)

(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=587879.0;attach=661035;image) (http://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/7a/3b/f2/7a3bf251176c2b1acda180c592fa8a02.jpg)

Not sure but I always wear my jeans to the beach ::)
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: Parker on December 04, 2015, 09:06:00 AM
The pictures/video prove everything. He will never have the best back in the final callout.
Nor the best arms, or chest, or quads, or hams. But hey he has one of the best shapes and abs in the line up.

The pics/vids prove that his back is lacking thickness. Up until recently, it was shallow, now it is less so. It's not about "insertions", but about thickness. By doing more exercises that target thickness and detail, he will and has made improvements. Because he has made improvements, shows that it is not about "insertions". It's about doing what needs to be done to get the muscle thickness. Also, muscle maturity is bro science AFIK there is no medical term called "muscle maturity", otherwise Shawn Ray at 22 achieved muscle maturity early. And his style of training  that Rhoden was known for didn't  help him, either. It's not as back as Dillett's training (that is hard to beat).
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: King Shizzo on December 04, 2015, 09:12:53 AM
Nor the best arms, or chest, or quads, or hams. But hey he has one of the best shapes and abs in the line up.

The pics/vids prove that his back is lacking thickness. Up until recently, it was shallow, now it is less so. It's not about "insertions", but about thickness. By doing more exercises that target thickness and detail, he will and has made improvements. Because he has made improvements, shows that it is not about "insertions". It's about doing what needs to be done to get the muscle thickness. Also, muscle maturity is bro science AFIK there is no medical term called "muscle maturity", otherwise Shawn Ray at 22 achieved muscle maturity early. And his style of training  that Rhoden was known for didn't  help him, either. It's not as back as Dillett's training (that is hard to beat).
Parker, we get that you like Rhoden. The facts are, his back will never win him an Olympia.

Take the blinders off for a minute, and asses his physique like a judge would. Rhoden's back is one of his few weaknesses.
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: Parker on December 04, 2015, 09:15:58 AM
Parker, we get that you like Rhoden. The facts are, his back will never win him an Olympia.

Take the blinders off for a minute, and asses his physique like a judge would. Rhoden's back is one of his few weaknesses.
I am not really a Rhoden fan. And no one is saying that he will win an O. Everybody acknowledges that his back is one of his weakness. And his lack of split between bis and tris in front arm poses.
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: King Shizzo on December 04, 2015, 09:17:35 AM
I am not really a Rhoden fan. And no one is saying that he will win an O. Everybody acknowledges that his back is one of his weakness. And his lack of split between bis and tris in front arm poses.
Who are you a fan of, in this current roster of pros?
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: PJim on December 04, 2015, 09:36:59 AM
 :-[
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: Mitch on December 04, 2015, 09:46:49 AM
his kidneys weren't on the guest list, I guess.
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: maxkane69 on December 04, 2015, 09:47:35 AM
I wonder who the schmoes prefere ? ;D

(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=587879.0;attach=661035;image) (http://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/7a/3b/f2/7a3bf251176c2b1acda180c592fa8a02.jpg)
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: Papper on December 04, 2015, 10:01:39 AM
He doesnt look like total shit but come on.. Compare him to that hungarian dude when he is offseason for instance

His back looks like he never even glanced at the seated row machine after the O
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: Primemuscle on December 04, 2015, 10:11:29 AM
I wonder who the schmoes prefere ? ;D


Why do you wonder this?

Anyway it depends on the schmoe. Not everyone is attracted to the same type. Some guys like women with big boobs while others don't. Other men like women with big butts, while some of us find these oversized mounds of fat disgustingly ugly. 
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: io856 on December 04, 2015, 10:40:33 AM
maybe he doesn't believe in diuretics for a guest posing?
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: Waller on December 04, 2015, 11:47:27 AM
For comparison, Dex looking just as bloofy but fucking huge still. Same show.

Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: Papper on December 04, 2015, 11:48:41 AM
maybe he doesn't believe in diuretics for a guest posing?

That you even need a system of drugs not to look like a complete bloat bag! Hilarious these "pro's"
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: pellius on December 04, 2015, 12:16:01 PM
Wearing a hat and sun glasses in a thong is always a good look no matter what shape you're in.
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: The Ugly on December 04, 2015, 12:16:27 PM
Not sure but I always wear my jeans to the beach ::)

And fedora in a thong?
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: da_vinci on December 04, 2015, 12:21:17 PM
Rhoden pretty much always looks a LOT worse when offseason. I guess most androgens are out of his system in these pics, just gh and some other peptides. Thats the "brand" look of these circumstances.

Dex looks out of this world, holly shit, unebelieveable genetics on that fella.
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: pellius on December 04, 2015, 12:23:30 PM
For comparison, Dex looking just as bloofy but fucking huge still. Same show.



That's bloofy? You're not going to advance in bbing by staying at 6% year round. Dex knows what he's doing and is still improving well into his forties.
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: Waller on December 04, 2015, 12:42:10 PM
That's bloofy? You're not going to advance in bbing by staying at 6% year round. Dex knows what he's doing and is still improving well into his forties.

He's no Compton but yeah he's bloofy (especially when we normally see him diced), look at his back and hams especially. Loads of water. I'm not saying he doesn't look amazing. Dex is imo one of the best bodybuilders going.
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: Papper on December 04, 2015, 12:43:39 PM
Wearing a hat and sun glasses in a thong is always a good look no matter what shape you're in.

I would want to hide my face too
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: Azure on December 04, 2015, 01:06:53 PM
By many accounts he won the prejudging at the Olympia.

He doesn't look fat and bloated like I have seen others. He also doesn't look like he's going to keel over any moment.

Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: io856 on December 04, 2015, 01:40:58 PM
By the looks at most your comments in this thread, most have no clue about competitive bodybuilding
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: Sam on December 04, 2015, 02:09:35 PM
'' lets give em some showbiz....pass me my hat and sunglasses'' :D
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: The Scott on December 04, 2015, 03:47:27 PM
The shades hide the sleepy eyes.  He's in a PED induced coma most of the time.
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: da_vinci on December 04, 2015, 03:54:02 PM
By the looks at most your comments in this thread, most have no clue about competitive bodybuilding

This. Last few times I've seen guys looking like that (shortly after looking very impressive) it was when they went off androgens and left GH and shit like HCG + some exotic peptides (most of these doesn't work, but helps to have a piece of mind probably  ::) ).
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: Skeletor on December 04, 2015, 03:59:10 PM
The shades hide the sleepy eyes.  He's in a PED induced coma most of the time.

He can try the half and half look next year.
(http://i.imgur.com/OjxRcE4.jpg)
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: WOOO on December 04, 2015, 04:00:41 PM
Water retention of peace... Where did his back go????



Drugs. The finishing touch.
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: Azure on December 04, 2015, 04:08:17 PM
The shades hide the sleepy eyes.  He's in a PED induced coma most of the time.

He always looks like he is going to sleep. He needs some redbull. Maybe he gets nervous
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: Voice of Doom on December 04, 2015, 05:02:39 PM
it doesn't look like he like to train hard.  The physique reflects that
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: ritch on December 04, 2015, 07:08:48 PM
'' lets give em some showbiz....pass me my hat and sunglasses'' :D

LOL!
I guess he's giving his body a break from the prep drugs which is smart. Was surprised also by the lack of conditioning. He brought the minimum need to look ok for a guest pose I'd say.
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: njflex on December 04, 2015, 08:10:18 PM
dex looks great there,,night and day from rhoden,,rhoden is x weeks out and mro or whatever show he's doing peak day build only,dex is all  yr close to top look...
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: pellius on December 04, 2015, 09:59:10 PM
He's no Compton but yeah he's bloofy (especially when we normally see him diced), look at his back and hams especially. Loads of water. I'm not saying he doesn't look amazing. Dex is imo one of the best bodybuilders going.

What we normally see of Dex is not normal. He kills himself getting into stage ready condition. And it's a condition no one can maintain and live very long.

As far as those pics, we should all be so bloofy.

I don't find Dex particularly engaging as a person but as a bodybuilder he's one of the best that has ever live. His one Mr. O win doesn't come close to telling his story.
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: SaintAnger on December 04, 2015, 10:21:33 PM
What we normally see of Dex is not normal. He kills himself getting into stage ready condition. And it's a condition no one can maintain and live very long.

Who told you this?  He's told me first hand over and over he doesn't do any cardio, eats practically whatever he wants, and doesn't go balls to the wall in the gym.  Only recently has he had to tighten up with age settling in.  Even with father time looming, he still has it way easier than most top pros.

While he's never given a reason for the disparity, I believe it's due to his metabolism (remember, he started as a bantamweight!) and of course, all of the "extras."  He's one freak of nature either way.
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: cephissus on December 04, 2015, 11:53:15 PM
IT'S ONLY GAY IF YOU WANT IT TO BE!!!
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: Tha Grim Lifter on December 05, 2015, 04:11:21 AM
Rhoden looks like he could be in very good condition within 3-4 weeks dieting. Holding water changes a lot. You can't maintain top condition for very long and trying to for a guy like him will just hurt him come Olympia time when he's trying to peak.
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: pellius on December 05, 2015, 09:56:46 PM
Who told you this?  He's told me first hand over and over he doesn't do any cardio, eats practically whatever he wants, and doesn't go balls to the wall in the gym.  Only recently has he had to tighten up with age settling in.  Even with father time looming, he still has it way easier than most top pros.

While he's never given a reason for the disparity, I believe it's due to his metabolism (remember, he started as a bantamweight!) and of course, all of the "extras."  He's one freak of nature either way.

Well, for one, he made a comment on one of his training videos while preparing for the Arnold about how much he was suffering on his current carb restriction phase of his prep.

I think a lot of bbers understate how much they sacrifice to maintain their physique so they can appear to be so much more genetically superior to others. Groink use to make the same argument when he claimed natural. He was just that much better than everybody but if he decided to gas he would shock the world.

But, yes, Dex is obviously naturally gifted, as all top pros are, and things come easier to them than it does for the rest of us.
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: musclecenter on December 05, 2015, 11:40:20 PM
His lats don't insert very high. They're just lacking thickness, the same as his spinal erectors are.
.
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: Nether Animal on December 05, 2015, 11:51:36 PM
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=587879.0;attach=661317;image)

"Flexatron"

What a joke.
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: 240 is Back on December 06, 2015, 12:30:03 AM

Dunno, his arms have went to find it...

Funny.  But his hat does rock
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: milone79 on December 06, 2015, 04:45:47 AM
That you even need a system of drugs not to look like a complete bloat bag! Hilarious these "pro's"


exactly  this!!!!!!!  IFBB is a total joke!!!
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: milone79 on December 06, 2015, 04:49:39 AM
.


these guys are all SEO these days....where are his delts, traps and rhomboids gone????   I think they have mastered the art of pinning the muscles to blow them up pre contest and they deflate soon after since there is so little muscle actually there...its all a magic trick these days...
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: Parker on December 06, 2015, 07:24:17 AM
"Flexatron"

What a joke.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=587879.0;attach=661319)
The days of seeing this are long gone.
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: DroppingPlates on December 06, 2015, 07:27:14 AM
"Flexatron"

What a joke.

(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=587879.0;attach=661319;image)

One of the best BB pics ever made..
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: old-school-lifter on December 06, 2015, 05:05:45 PM
Rhodens got a weak back unfortunately

it lacks width, thickness and detail

he'll never take top spot  against kai or phil
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: Ronnie Rep on December 07, 2015, 05:49:18 AM
For comparison, Dex looking just as bloofy but fucking huge still. Same show.


Dex always looks great. Can you say round.
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: bigmikecox on December 07, 2015, 07:51:06 AM
First, he is obviously "off". But he had a responsibility and lived up to it. These guys dont walk around in contest shape all year.
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: SF1900 on December 07, 2015, 09:04:28 AM
.

Damn, from mid-back down, disappears.
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: bigmikecox on December 07, 2015, 09:31:08 AM
For comparison, Dex looking just as bloofy but fucking huge still. Same show.



but he has been dieting all year! He has every right to relax! When you have a show this far after the O and want the top guys to guest pose, you have to expect they wont be near contest shape. Shit, and these guys have had some time to tighten up before this!
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: Disco187 on December 07, 2015, 11:15:24 AM
The sweeps in wheelers triceps are just picture perfect, cant get better then that.  one of my fav bodybuilding pics of all times
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: local hero on December 07, 2015, 03:38:00 PM
but he has been dieting all year! He has every right to relax! When you have a show this far after the O and want the top guys to guest pose, you have to expect they wont be near contest shape. Shit, and these guys have had some time to tighten up before this!


He should be imposing at least, I think back to yates n Nasser where they'd rock up well over 300lbs, they weren't ripped but no body cared
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: honest on December 07, 2015, 06:21:36 PM
shit load of esicline in that shot of Flex, tris delts traps, he employed his own injection artist was good for a while till he over did it, but no doubt absolute crazy shot, guys genetivcs and shape were insane esicline or not.
Title: Re: Shawn Rhoden guest posing
Post by: njflex on December 08, 2015, 07:09:41 AM
shit load of esicline in that shot of Flex, tris delts traps, he employed his own injection artist was good for a while till he over did it, but no doubt absolute crazy shot, guys genetivcs and shape were insane esicline or not.
just like today..smoke and mirrors the final product,temp look for pics/mag's/dvd's at the time..covered up rest of the year...they all had size/all got lean..the little extras is what made these  guys standout...