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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: cephissus on December 16, 2015, 11:39:28 AM
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We all know test levels decline with age. Do you believe its healthier to just let this happen, or to step in with exogenous supplementation?
'health' and 'trt' mean different things to different people, of course, so clarify your own definition if necessary.
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It's being PRESCRIBED and their oath is "do no harm"
So gonna make an educated guess and say "yes".
Even if it wasen't. So fuckin' what?
Do you wanna spend your last days the way most old people do? Rotting, waiting for death?
I refuse to let that happen to me. I'd much rather die of a heart attack in the gym while training, having sex at the age of 70 or so, than live how most do past a certain point of being healthy and so on.
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We all know test levels decline with age. Do you believe its healthier to just let this happen, or to step in with exogenous supplementation?
'health' and 'trt' mean different things to different people, of course, so clarify your own definition if necessary.
If your test is below normal then yes.
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Low test causes health issues.
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It's being PRESCRIBED and their oath is "do no harm"
So gonna make an educated guess and say "yes".
lol
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Nature wants us dead. Plain and simple. Modern medicine has made it that we are able to live more than 2X the life-span than nature intended. Hormone levels declining over time results in less protein synthesis, slowing of metabolism, slowed rate of cell repair, heart problems, etc...
TRT is like any other medicine. Used correctly, it can make you live a longer, healthier, and more importantly, more fulfilled life into your later years.
The people who fuck up are ones who consider 500mg/wk as TRT. Its not. Don't expect that injecting Chinese-manufactured testosterone at more than 2ce the natural dose to help you live longer lol.
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Nature wants us dead.
That's a coincidence... I want people dead as well.
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i started TRT exactly three weeks ago. I'm 58, 5/11 and 270 pounds. i am retired, with lots time on my hands. i go to the gym at 5 am and walk on a treadmill for 35 to 40 minutes. then i go back to the gym later in the day and lift heavy weights.
i started this journey with my HMO kaiser two years ago. i asked my doctor to include testosterone blood work, so i could see my numbers. my numbers were fucking terrible. so he sent me to a hormone specialist, and when i went in for the visit,
she said no way are we giving your testosterone. no fucking way. i left pissed off, and gave up on kaiser and testosterone.
now that I'm retired, i switched to my wires insurance, got another blood test, and my testosterone was at 171!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! low limit is 250, high limit is 900. I'm like, what the fuck?????????
let me tell you about having low test. you cannot have sex. period. no instrest at all. can't perform, sometimes even with a pill, my dick would not stay hard. cranky, pissy, bad mood. fat around the belly that never goes away.
finally a new hormone doctor gave me 100 mgs of test cypionate, one injection a week. is it going to harm me? fuck it, who cares. going to croak anyway.
but now i just got threw with a nice piece of ass with the wife, everything worked great. I'm happy, she's happy, my dick is happy, my wallet is happy as insurance paid for everything. I'm not pissy, feeling good.
WHY SHOULD I HAVE THE TEST LEVELS OF A 90 YEAR OLD MAN?????????? 1 simple injection a week for life. (gotta go, the wife just left, think I'm going to jerk off while she's gone) :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P
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It's being PRESCRIBED and their oath is "do no harm"
So gonna make an educated guess and say "yes".
I'd say depends on what practice they are in.
Doctors prescribe lots of dangerous medications. For example, Xarelto where there is no cure for bleed out.
Currently, there are lawsuits for TRT.
Weigh the risks versus the rewards like judochoke did.
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i started TRT exactly three weeks ago. I'm 58, 5/11 and 270 pounds. i am retired, with lots time on my hands. i go to the gym at 5 am and walk on a treadmill for 35 to 40 minutes. then i go back to the gym later in the day and lift heavy weights.
i started this journey with my HMO kaiser two years ago. i asked my doctor to include testosterone blood work, so i could see my numbers. my numbers were fucking terrible. so he sent me to a hormone specialist, and when i went in for the visit,
she said no way are we giving your testosterone. no fucking way. i left pissed off, and gave up on kaiser and testosterone.
now that I'm retired, i switched to my wires insurance, got another blood test, and my testosterone was at 171!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! low limit is 250, high limit is 900. I'm like, what the fuck?????????
let me tell you about having low test. you cannot have sex. period. no instrest at all. can't perform, sometimes even with a pill, my dick would not stay hard. cranky, pissy, bad mood. fat around the belly that never goes away.
finally a new hormone doctor gave me 100 mgs of test cypionate, one injection a week. is it going to harm me? fuck it, who cares. going to croak anyway.
but now i just got threw with a nice piece of ass with the wife, everything worked great. I'm happy, she's happy, my dick is happy, my wallet is happy as insurance paid for everything. I'm not pissy, feeling good.
WHY SHOULD I HAVE THE TEST LEVELS OF A 90 YEAR OLD MAN?????????? 1 simple injection a week for life. (gotta go, the wife just left, think I'm going to jerk off while she's gone) :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P
Well said, 1/2 cc a week, you can stay on forever
Consider a low dose Finasteride and Arimidex and you be good to go
Also baby aspirin at night
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so he sent me to a hormone specialist, and when i went in for the visit,
she said no way are we giving your testosterone. no fucking way.
epic fucking c unt.
finally a new hormone doctor gave me 100 mgs of test cypionate, one injection a week. is it going to harm me? fuck it, who cares. going to croak anyway.
but now i just got threw with a nice piece of ass with the wife, everything worked great. I'm happy, she's happy, my dick is happy, my wallet is happy as insurance paid for everything. I'm not pissy, feeling good.
WHY SHOULD I HAVE THE TEST LEVELS OF A 90 YEAR OLD MAN?????????? 1 simple injection a week for life. (gotta go, the wife just left, think I'm going to jerk off while she's gone) :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P
heartwarming post.
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TRT can be healthy and unhealthy at the same time. Depends on what risk factors you look at and which sides you are prone to. Some health parameters may get better and some worse.
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how did you know i performed oral on my wife zillotch??? is that what you meant? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
i do tell good story's 8)
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If your test is below normal then yes.
Well it's normal for the level to decline drastically over time. ALL things considered, do you think it's better to let that happen or not?
Also, to everyone: what dose do you think is best -- again, all things considered?
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Yes. It's Healty.
I've been off for almost 4 months and I'm miserable. Tired, can't recover for shit, can't sleep well and all I was taking was like 1/2-1cc of test a week. The good thing my size and weight hasn't changed much.
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We all know test levels decline with age. Do you believe its healthier to just let this happen, or to step in with exogenous supplementation?
'health' and 'trt' mean different things to different people, of course, so clarify your own definition if necessary.
Total horseshit. Test levels should not decrease markedly until you're in you're 60s and there's a reason why they do at that point.
TRT is mostly used by for steroid/pro hormone users who have permanently fucked up their bodies. No matter what anyone tells you know that you NEVER fully recover from juicing.
So you have to keep juicing.
Hence TRT marketed as a normal thing to do. Like all the other bullshit coming out of the fitness industry.
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Total horseshit. Test levels should not decrease markedly until you're in you're 60s and there's a reason why they do at that point.
TRT is mostly used by for steroid/pro hormone users who have permanently fucked up their bodies. No matter what anyone tells you know that you NEVER fully recover from juicing.
So you have to keep juicing.
Hence TRT marketed as a normal thing to do. Like all the other bullshit coming out of the fitness industry.
I agree with this. These "men's health" clinics that have popped up everywhere are a money making fad in my opinion. Not to mention most men with low test are out of shape, eat terrible, over worked etc....there are very few cases of legitimate low test but they aren't common.
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Total horseshit. Test levels should not decrease markedly until you're in you're 60s and there's a reason why they do at that point.
TRT is mostly used by for steroid/pro hormone users who have permanently fucked up their bodies. No matter what anyone tells you know that you NEVER fully recover from juicing.
So you have to keep juicing.
Hence TRT marketed as a normal thing to do. Like all the other bullshit coming out of the fitness industry.
The environment is too blame. Shit in plastics and foods fucking with hormones. Kids are going through puberty years earlier than 2 decades ago.
I'm on TRT, been for 2 years. I get my blood work done every 6 months and it's been spot on perfect.
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The environment is too blame. Shit in plastics and foods fucking with hormones. Kids are going through puberty years earlier than 2 decades ago.
I'm on TRT, been for 2 years. I get my blood work done every 6 months and it's been spot on perfect.
Did you use gear before or do you have hypogonadism or are you a fat pig?
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Test is best!
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Kids are going through puberty years earlier than 2 decades ago.
And dress like sluts much earlier too
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It's a tough one for me to think about as I've never taken anything in all the time I've been training.
On one hand, I tend to think if you look after yourself, eat well, vary your exercise but stay active, you can have a well functioning body until you hit your later years. I know people from other sports who, apart from the odd injury, still look great, still have energy, and are still vital, and they take nothing more than a steak a couple of times a week. The ones I'm thinking of are late 50's early 60's. Our body is supposed to produce less test as we age - I don't know if we should do things that oppose that. And trt is still pretty new. The reports of increased risk of cv stuff are a worry.
Then i talk to my older gym buddies who are on trt and there's no denying how much of a positive difference it seems to have.
I hear you guys saying it's better to go out with a bang a little earlier than to rot away, but i don't think rotting away is the only other option you can expect. I visited by martial arts teacher when i was passing through Singapore last week. He's 77, still has a full head of almost totally black hair, 2 mistresses and is doing a triathlon soon. He's not on trt.
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It's a tough one for me to think about as I've never taken anything in all the time I've been training.
On one hand, I tend to think if you look after yourself, eat well, vary your exercise but stay active, you can have a well functioning body until you hit your later years. I know people from other sports who, apart from the odd injury, still look great, still have energy, and are still vital, and they take nothing more than a steak a couple of times a week. The ones I'm thinking of are late 50's early 60's. Our body is supposed to produce less test as we age - I don't know if we should do things that oppose that. And trt is still pretty new. The reports of increased risk of cv stuff are a worry.
Then i talk to my older gym buddies who are on trt and there's no denying how much of a positive difference it seems to have.
I hear you guys saying it's better to go out with a bang a little earlier than to rot away, but i don't think rotting away is the only other option you can expect. I visited by martial arts teacher when i was passing through Singapore last week. He's 77, still has a full head of almost totally black hair, 2 mistresses and is doing a triathlon soon. He's not on trt.
I run with a lot of older guys... There are some in their 60s who outpace me... It's hilarious.
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Healthy if your test is on the low side.
Otherwise no real health benefits in having higher than average test. Other than "feeling" like a champ while on it.
When you think about it women live longer than men. So that leads me to believe test isn't the greatest for long term health.
Then again correlation doesn't always mean causation...
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I run with a lot of older guys... There are some in their 60s who outpace me... It's hilarious.
All the best fell runners are in there late 40s/50s. Endurance doesn't really start to drop till your 60s.
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so the moral of this story is that no two human bodies are the same. Got it.
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Yes. It's Healty.
I've been off for almost 4 months and I'm miserable. Tired, can't recover for shit, can't sleep well and all I was taking was like 1/2-1cc of test a week. The good thing my size and weight hasn't changed much.
Why stop. Unless a health concern makes no sense.
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Any use of a needle is not part of my definition of health.
Neither are pills
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Healthy if your test is on the low side.
Otherwise no real health benefits in having higher than average test. Other than "feeling" like a champ while on it.
When you think about it women live longer than men. So that leads me to believe test isn't the greatest for long term health.
Then again correlation doesn't always mean causation...
Men are taller and heavier than women on average. My guess is that's one factor on why men don't live as long as women...
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(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/22612515.jpg)
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Ive looked at it from both sides and spent quite a bit of time doing both, but have ultimately chosen to go back on after a few years of absolutely nothing, where I felt ok but had very little recovery, sex drive etc, but then being long term married sex doesn't get the priority it once did.I had no problems with working hard etc and being driven that is a process of the mind in my opinion not hormone level.
I have CAD in my family history and a small amount of test around 100mg every ten days assists my blood work positively. I am attempting to counter the health issues I face, I have had CT scans last ten years and even whilst not taking any gear and eating and exercising my score has been increasing at a rate faster than what I consider to be just age, so I have made what I feel to be the informed decision to do TRT for a year and see whether I can slow the rate of that increase, where it speeds up, I have the answer that it is counter productive and will stop it.
Its a tough one and everyone is different, but only fools believe TRT is 250mgs per week, the secret should be to take as little as possible to achieve a positive result, any amount taken that effects bloddwork negatively should be stopped myself 250mg per week drops my HDL below the good range, at 500mgs its dangerously below and over 1000mgs its almost 0. Its my non medical opinion that in this low HDL environment that calcification thrives, Ive been shot down here before for this opinion, But I believe there are to many bodybuilders with heart issues prematurely for this issue to not be significant considering the effects androgens have on lipid levels both HDL and LDL.
Just an opinion.
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Ive looked at it from both sides and spent quite a bit of time doing both, but have ultimately chosen to go back on after a few years of absolutely nothing, where I felt ok but had very little recovery, sex drive etc, but then being long term married sex doesn't get the priority it once did.I had no problems with working hard etc and being driven that is a process of the mind in my opinion not hormone level.
I have CAD in my family history and a small amount of test around 100mg every ten days assists my blood work positively. I am attempting to counter the health issues I face, I have had CT scans last ten years and even whilst not taking any gear and eating and exercising my score has been increasing at a rate faster than what I consider to be just age, so I have made what I feel to be the informed decision to do TRT for a year and see whether I can slow the rate of that increase, where it speeds up, I have the answer that it is counter productive and will stop it.
Its a tough one and everyone is different, but only fools believe TRT is 250mgs per week, the secret should be to take as little as possible to achieve a positive result, any amount taken that effects bloddwork negatively should be stopped myself 250mg per week drops my HDL below the good range, at 500mgs its dangerously below and over 1000mgs its almost 0. Its my non medical opinion that in this low HDL environment that calcification thrives, Ive been shot down here before for this opinion, But I believe there are to many bodybuilders with heart issues prematurely for this issue to not be significant considering the effects androgens have on lipid levels both HDL and LDL.
Just an opinion.
Two words on hdl, healthy fats.
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Men are taller and heavier than women on average. My guess is that's one factor on why men don't live as long as women...
yeah and that's what test makes you. heavier and larger, see correlation ;)
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Low test causes health issues.
this.
That is not saying trt doesn't have side effects. Risk vs reward
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Two words on hdl, healthy fats.
Fish and Krill oil daily, ;) but still need to consider a changing blood value from the use of a substance, I don't think eating more good fats to counter a larger dosage is the answer, but Im looking at use from a health point of view not bodybuilding point of view,
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Fish and Krill oil daily, ;) but still need to consider a changing blood value from the use of a substance, I don't think eating more good fats to counter a larger dosage is the answer, but Im looking at use from a health point of view not bodybuilding point of view,
At 500mg if your hdl was low you either weren't taking enough fish oil or the fish oil you were using was garbage or you just have shitty genetics. :-\
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i am hoping that my numbers are in the 400 to 500 range when i go back and see the doctor in april. thats all i want!!!!!!!!!to be in the middle of the range. I'm not looking to inject
anymore than 100mgs. maybe 150 if the doctor oks it. it makes no cents to be at 171. its not healthy. i do everything to keep my body in great shape. and i was at 171. terrible.
but so far i feel great on three weeks of 100 mg a week of cypainate.
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Do you think it's healthy that your stomach acid declines? Do you think it's healthy that your immuno response declines? Do you think it's healthy that your neurogenesis in certain brain regions slows down? Do you think it is "healthy" for you car of it's oil level declines beyond "MIN" mark? No? Why would you think it's healthy that your hormones decline?
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I do 200mg per week of cypionate. my HDL is 45. 15-20grams of healthy fat 5-6x per day; coconut oil, red palm oil, olive oil, almond butter, grass fed butter.
200mg every 7 days put me @ a 721 test level. Doseage is unique to everyone and can only be determined by blood work.
My blood work is perfect. I have monitor hemocrit and donate on occasion as it will slowly slide toward the high end
I have experimented with 1x per week injects, eod sub-q injects, 2x per week shallow IM injects. I prefer 2x per week shallow IM inject with a 1/2" 29g insulin pin
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Men are taller and heavier than women on average. My guess is that's one factor on why men don't live as long as women...
It's an average.
Men do the dangerous jobs on this planet. The ones that kill you.
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With TRT you have to keep in mind you're shutting down a far-upstream process.... so there is a tradeoff.
You will boost your testosterone, but it's no free lunch.
At the end of the day, it's a lifestyle prescription for most people. If it improves your quality of life more than the risks, then it probably makes sense if you're 50+.
The better thing to do, which is a whole lot harder, is to simply eat high quality nutritious food, reduce stress, and try to be a happy, mindful person. That's basically a prescription for health and happiness but harder to adhere to than a shot each week or daily pill.
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I do 200mg per week of cypionate. my HDL is 45. 15-20grams of healthy fat 5-6x per day; coconut oil, red palm oil, olive oil, almond butter, grass fed butter.
200mg every 7 days put me @ a 721 test level. Doseage is unique to everyone and can only be determined by blood work.
My blood work is perfect. I have monitor hemocrit and donate on occasion as it will slowly slide toward the high end
I have experimented with 1x per week injects, eod sub-q injects, 2x per week shallow IM injects. I prefer 2x per week shallow IM inject with a 1/2" 29g insulin pin
Yeah Im donating every 3 months to counter the hemocrit, my dosage is lower mainly due to body weight reaction, I have always been a bit of a hyper responder 250mg primotest a fortnight has me putting on about 4 kilos, I no longer want the weight just the recovery and well being which I can achieve on 125mgs every ten days, with 250 I go up in weight then down over the 14 days, as much as 6-8 lbs depending on carbs sodium, body just acts like an unforgiving sponge with the larger dose.
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I have been on TRT for the past fourteen years, with nearly all of the last year being on HCG in addition. I take 100 mg testosterone cypionate per week and, as of now, for spermatogenesis, 1000 IU HCG three times per week.
I took 500 IU HCG twice per week at first, but that had my sperm count at only 700,000 and now with this new dose I am at 4,500,000.
Actually I'd be quite UNHEALTHY without TRT. I never took roids before TRT, never had injury to my pituitary or testicles, etc. I simply acquired it at 22 years old.
I used gels all the way up until two years ago, when I switched to cyp. The gels usually had me at 700 to 1000 ng/dl.
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yeah and that's what test makes you. heavier and larger, see correlation ;)
Don't they give HGH to midgets in an effort for them to get taller? I don't think they give them test for height.
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I have been on TRT for the past fourteen years, with nearly all of the last year being on HCG in addition. I take 100 mg testosterone cypionate per week and, as of now, for spermatogenesis, 1000 IU HCG three times per week.
I took 500 IU HCG twice per week at first, but that had my sperm count at only 700,000 and now with this new dose I am at 4,500,000.
Actually I'd be quite UNHEALTHY without TRT. I never took roids before TRT, never had injury to my pituitary or testicles, etc. I simply acquired it at 22 years old.
I used gels all the way up until two years ago, when I switched to cyp. The gels usually had me at 700 to 1000 ng/dl.
2000iu M/W/F recipe for making babies.
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Men are taller and heavier than women on average. My guess is that's one factor on why men don't live as long as women...
Another reason is women bleed out once a month, that's why their hematocrit is lower than guys who have thicker blood. IMO
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If I did not think it was good for my health and general wellbeing, I would not be on TRT. It may not extend my life, but while I'm alive it makes me feel better. A quality life trumps a long life in my opinion.
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Another reason is women bleed out once a month, that's why their hematocrit is lower than guys who have thicker blood. IMO
Interesting...Good point.
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Fish and Krill oil daily, ;) but still need to consider a changing blood value from the use of a substance, I don't think eating more good fats to counter a larger dosage is the answer, but Im looking at use from a health point of view not bodybuilding point of view,
I'm weary of pill form fish oils and shit like that. What kind of shelf life can that shit possibly have where you're not doing more harm than good? And if the fish oil is coming from China, fuck no. Most of the Country is contaminated...
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I'm weary of pill form fish oils and shit like that. What kind of shelf life can that shit possibly have where you're not doing more harm than good? And if the fish oil is coming from China, fuck no. Most of the Country is contaminated...
(http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/newstalkkit.com/files/2012/10/carlson_norwegian_fish_oil.jpg)
This stuff is good, IMO
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Did you notice any changes to general wellbeing when you added HCG?
Yup. It's great.
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I noticed last time I gave blood they now have a check box to state if you're on TRT. I guess it must be super popular now that they need to start asking this question.
As for worrying about health. It's probably healthier than drinking tap or bottled water, healthier than most fruits and veggies and healthier than driving.
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Last time I tried TRT my blood (hematocrit) went so high, I had to donate blood once every month! I was like in stroke territory. I think my HCT was around 17. Anyway, I quit. I feel fine now. I no longer have to masterbate constantly.
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Last time I tried TRT my blood (hematocrit) went so high, I had to donate blood once every month! I was like in stroke territory. I think my HCT was around 17. Anyway, I quit. I feel fine now. I no longer have to masterbate constantly.
Could it be that I need to up the dose?
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I noticed last time I gave blood they now have a check box to state if you're on TRT. I guess it must be super popular now that they need to start asking this question.
If you take Proscar to control sides, they won't use your blood for transfusions. The reason is that it would have negative effects on a pregnant woman. and you have to get a prescription for a therapeutic phlebotomy...
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It's a big money making biz!
Healthy? No. But who cares, feel fantastic and look fantastic on!
Here is where there is no evidence. They say low test causes health problems,,, there is no evidence of this other than making you tired and in a slightly depressed mood.
I believe being fat and out of shape causes low test. Measure test of fat sedentary people and they have low test. Then the statisticians claim " low test is associated with poor health". There is no evidence it causes it!
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It's a big money making biz!
Healthy? No. But who cares, feel fantastic and look fantastic on!
Here is where there is no evidence. They say low test causes health problems,,, there is no evidence of this other than making you tired and in a slightly depressed mood.
I believe being fat and out of shape causes low test. Measure test of fat sedentary people and they have low test. Then the statisticians claim " low test is associated with poor health". There is no evidence it causes it!
While you make some interesting points, there is also no evidence that proves you right. To be honest it is a "which comes first, the chicken or the egg" kind of argument.
Not all folks on TRT are using it to combat the ravages of getting old. Some of us have hypogonadism. This describes me. I have one functioning testicle as a result of having had the mumps during puberty. Doctors identified this as a problem a very long time ago, when I was still in my teens and prescribed TRT to counter it.
Without doubt there are folks who do not need TRT, but are on it. I am not sure how much money and profits play a part. Legally prescribed testosterone in not very expensive. At this point I see my urologist once a year. This is not more frequent than someone my age would.