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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: OzmO on December 28, 2015, 08:16:59 AM
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I listen to a radio show about this article a few days ago. In essence, Obama wanted to support the "moderate" rebels in Syria with arms, but those Moderate rebels are no longer in control but instead extremists are now in control of the rebels. Our Military wanted Obama to stop it but wouldn't. So our military has evidently been passing intelligence to Assads government through back channels in other governments.
This is not the whole article. sorry bit of a long read.
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v38/n01/seymour-m-hersh/military-to-military (http://www.lrb.co.uk/v38/n01/seymour-m-hersh/military-to-military)
Military to Military
Seymour M. Hersh on US intelligence sharing in the Syrian war
Barack Obama’s repeated insistence that Bashar al-Assad must leave office – and that there are ‘moderate’ rebel groups in Syria capable of defeating him – has in recent years provoked quiet dissent, and even overt opposition, among some of the most senior officers on the Pentagon’s Joint Staff. Their criticism has focused on what they see as the administration’s fixation on Assad’s primary ally, Vladimir Putin. In their view, Obama is captive to Cold War thinking about Russia and China, and hasn’t adjusted his stance on Syria to the fact both countries share Washington’s anxiety about the spread of terrorism in and beyond Syria; like Washington, they believe that Islamic State must be stopped.
The military’s resistance dates back to the summer of 2013, when a highly classified assessment, put together by the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) and the Joint Chiefs of Staff, then led by General Martin Dempsey, forecast that the fall of the Assad regime would lead to chaos and, potentially, to Syria’s takeover by jihadi extremists, much as was then happening in Libya. A former senior adviser to the Joint Chiefs told me that the document was an ‘all-source’ appraisal, drawing on information from signals, satellite and human intelligence, and took a dim view of the Obama administration’s insistence on continuing to finance and arm the so-called moderate rebel groups. By then, the CIA had been conspiring for more than a year with allies in the UK, Saudi Arabia and Qatar to ship guns and goods – to be used for the overthrow of Assad – from Libya, via Turkey, into Syria. The new intelligence estimate singled out Turkey as a major impediment to Obama’s Syria policy. The document showed, the adviser said, ‘that what was started as a covert US programme to arm and support the moderate rebels fighting Assad had been co-opted by Turkey, and had morphed into an across-the-board technical, arms and logistical programme for all of the opposition, including Jabhat al-Nusra and Islamic State. The so-called moderates had evaporated and the Free Syrian Army was a rump group stationed at an airbase in Turkey.’ The assessment was bleak: there was no viable ‘moderate’ opposition to Assad, and the US was arming extremists.
Lieutenant General Michael Flynn, director of the DIA between 2012 and 2014, confirmed that his agency had sent a constant stream of classified warnings to the civilian leadership about the dire consequences of toppling Assad. The jihadists, he said, were in control of the opposition. Turkey wasn’t doing enough to stop the smuggling of foreign fighters and weapons across the border. ‘If the American public saw the intelligence we were producing daily, at the most sensitive level, they would go ballistic,’ Flynn told me. ‘We understood Isis’s long-term strategy and its campaign plans, and we also discussed the fact that Turkey was looking the other way when it came to the growth of the Islamic State inside Syria.’ The DIA’s reporting, he said, ‘got enormous pushback’ from the Obama administration. ‘I felt that they did not want to hear the truth.’
‘Our policy of arming the opposition to Assad was unsuccessful and actually having a negative impact,’ the former JCS adviser said. ‘The Joint Chiefs believed that Assad should not be replaced by fundamentalists. The administration’s policy was contradictory. They wanted Assad to go but the opposition was dominated by extremists. So who was going to replace him? To say Assad’s got to go is fine, but if you follow that through – therefore anyone is better. It’s the “anybody else is better” issue that the JCS had with Obama’s policy.’ The Joint Chiefs felt that a direct challenge to Obama’s policy would have ‘had a zero chance of success’. So in the autumn of 2013 they decided to take steps against the extremists without going through political channels, by providing US intelligence to the militaries of other nations, on the understanding that it would be passed on to the Syrian army and used against the common enemy, Jabhat al-Nusra and Islamic State.
Germany, Israel and Russia were in contact with the Syrian army, and able to exercise some influence over Assad’s decisions – it was through them that US intelligence would be shared. Each had its reasons for co-operating with Assad: Germany feared what might happen among its own population of six million Muslims if Islamic State expanded; Israel was concerned with border security; Russia had an alliance of very long standing with Syria, and was worried by the threat to its only naval base on the Mediterranean, at Tartus. ‘We weren’t intent on deviating from Obama’s stated policies,’ the adviser said. ‘But sharing our assessments via the military-to-military relationships with other countries could prove productive. It was clear that Assad needed better tactical intelligence and operational advice. The JCS concluded that if those needs were met, the overall fight against Islamist terrorism would be enhanced. Obama didn’t know, but Obama doesn’t know what the JCS does in every circumstance and that’s true of all presidents.’
Once the flow of US intelligence began, Germany, Israel and Russia started passing on information about the whereabouts and intent of radical jihadist groups to the Syrian army; in return, Syria provided information about its own capabilities and intentions. There was no direct contact between the US and the Syrian military; instead, the adviser said, ‘we provided the information – including long-range analyses on Syria’s future put together by contractors or one of our war colleges – and these countries could do with it what they chose, including sharing it with Assad. We were saying to the Germans and the others: “Here’s some information that’s pretty interesting and our interest is mutual.” End of conversation. The JCS could conclude that something beneficial would arise from it – but it was a military to military thing, and not some sort of a sinister Joint Chiefs’ plot to go around Obama and support Assad. It was a lot cleverer than that. If Assad remains in power, it will not be because we did it. It’s because he was smart enough to use the intelligence and sound tactical advice we provided to others.’
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Obama did arm terrorists.
He wanted a proxy war but overestimated the moderate rebels strength compared to the extremists.
Its probably because he is a muslim he wants to think the best of his breatheren.
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pretty sure the last 5-6 presidents have armed terrorists in some way or another. I've been hearing people say that around every election since I was old enough to remember.
oh and they're all eerily similar to Hitler.
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We are never good at this shit. We either back the weak side who can't fight or the arms end up in the wrong hands.
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Oddly enough we also have the Kurds....they hate arabs and can fight..yet Barry refuses to directly aide them.
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I think some of the questions here are:
Why is he not accepting the intelligence form the DIA?
Is this treasonous on the part of the military?
Are we playing both sides on purpose?
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I think some of the questions here are:
Why is he not accepting the intelligence form the DIA?
Is this treasonous on the part of the military?
Are we playing both sides on purpose?
Of course. This is why your CIA took down the tower, etc... The grinder needs meat. The populace needs to be afraid.
America. Fuck yeah.
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Oddly enough we also have the Kurds....they hate arabs and can fight..yet Barry refuses to directly aide them.
Surely you wouldn't be advocating going against Turkey, our steadfast friend, our staunch ally, and a key NATO member? ;)
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Are we playing both sides on purpose?
alex jones has been 100% right about everything he's said from 2009 until today.
obama birth cert. obama feeding isis. Obama being a tool for the rich.
of course, alex jones was a delusional nutbag when he said similar things about bush ;)
these fckwads and their trump-loving, prison planet quoting asses need to make up their mind. ANY connection of the USA to al-Q or taleban or ISIS was conspiracy theory nonsense... until a democrat came into office.
Team Partisan dipshits.
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Surely you wouldn't be advocating going against Turkey, our steadfast friend, our staunch ally, and a key NATO member? ;)
That shipped sailed but we're still trying to hold on to it. Same assholes who won't let us use our bases or would not let us invade from the north in 2003
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That shipped sailed but we're still trying to hold on to it. Same assholes who won't let us use our bases or would not let us invade from the north in 2003
I was being sarcastic, of course. We're kissing Turkey's ass and they, in return, are farting on our face. I don't understand why we tolerate it and why we continue supporting them.
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I know bud....
If I can't use my bases...I can't deploy my troops and your damm government has turned against my allies in the region...I fail to see what I'm getting. Plus these assholes appear to be trying to pick a fight with Ol Vlad. Putin really wants to stomp a mudhole into the west somewhere and these guys are pissing him off.
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I know bud....
If I can't use my bases...I can't deploy my troops and your damm government has turned against my allies in the region...I fail to see what I'm getting. Plus these assholes appear to be trying to pick a fight with Ol Vlad. Putin really wants to stomp a mudhole into the west somewhere and these guys are pissing him off.
If nothing else, Putin is a good leader for Russia.
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Of course. This is why your CIA took down the tower, etc... The grinder needs meat. The populace needs to be afraid.
America. Fuck yeah.
Are you a 9/11 Troofer?
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Are you a 9/11 Troofer?
I'm someone who doesn't think those planes could have caused the collapse I witnessed.
And a missile hit the pentagon. Who fired the missile?
The US is a diseased state that sponsors more terrorism than any other globally.
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I'm someone who doesn't think those planes could have caused the collapse I witnessed.
And a missile hit the pentagon. Who fired the missile?
The US is a diseased state that sponsors more terrorism than any other globally.
Dude. I am embarrassed for you. :-[
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Yeah WOO seriously.
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Santa delivers presents.
God made the universe 6k years ago.
Planes flown by untrained Arab clowns who went to crop dusting school miraculously struck their 2 targets and managed to completely destroy 200 stories of building that would have required days of standard demolition to destroy under normal circumstances. And the Saudis all got out early. And the rich all dumped their stock.
I'm sad for you
Believing standard 9/11 BS means you believe Allah > Christ.
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Santa delivers presents.
God made the universe 6k years ago.
Planes flown by untrained Arab clowns who went to crop dusting school miraculously struck their 2 targets and managed to completely destroy 200 stories of building that would have required days of standard demolition to destroy under normal circumstances. And the Saudis all got out early. And the rich all dumped their stock.
I'm sad for you
Believing standard 9/11 BS means you believe Allah > Christ.
What the heck did you just type? lol Pretty incoherent. Are you hitting the pipe with Necrosis?? :D
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What the heck did you just type? lol Pretty incoherent. Are you hitting the pipe with Necrosis?? :D
I'm a vaper. Watching MNF. Going to take a shit now.
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Santa delivers presents.
God made the universe 6k years ago.
Planes flown by untrained Arab clowns who went to crop dusting school miraculously struck their 2 targets and managed to completely destroy 200 stories of building that would have required days of standard demolition to destroy under normal circumstances. And the Saudis all got out early. And the rich all dumped their stock.
I'm sad for you
Believing standard 9/11 BS means you believe Allah > Christ.
I don't believe in creationism for the same reason I don't believe in 9/11 CTs
Perhaps you should apply the same principles you use not to believe in a 6000 year old earth (biblical accounts have it at 13,000 years old BTW) to 9/11.
I have spent many many hours researching 9/11. the official story May not be the complete truth but plAnes did hit those buildings and caused the collapse of 2 of them.
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I have spent many many hours researching 9/11. the official story May not be the complete truth
Which parts of the 911 official story are false?
plAnes did hit those buildings and caused the collapse of 2 of them.
And fire caused the collapse of the 3rd building (WTC7), correct?
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Which parts of the 911 official story are false?
And fire caused the collapse of the 3rd building (WTC7), correct?
Refer to the CT board. It's all in there. ;)
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Refer to the CT board. It's all in there. ;)
LMAO
nah, I haven't ventured there in months, maybe years haha. it's like lays potato chips, I cant read just one post, I'll be there all night debating clueless twits that love trump/alex jones but believe everything 911 lol.
Too busy for that these days.
I find it pretty shocking that you think the US Govt fabricated parts of the 911 report. Parts of the official story are false? Yikes, you sound like Trump now!
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LMAO
nah, I haven't ventured there in months, maybe years haha. it's like lays potato chips, I cant read just one post, I'll be there all night debating clueless twits that love trump/alex jones but believe everything 911 lol.
Too busy for that these days.
I find it pretty shocking that you think the US Govt fabricated parts of the 911 report. Parts of the official story are false? Yikes, you sound like Trump now!
Lol nice try at spin at trying to put words in my mouth. I even inadvertently capitalized the word "may" and the context of the sentence suggested there may be more facts and you flipped it to: I think some parts are false and gov fabricated parts.
Hahaha. Yeah no point in you going on the CT board. Political blabber spin is your forte. :D
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the official story May not be the complete truth
Which parts of the official 911 report are false?
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Which parts of the official 911 report are false?
Still trying to spin it eh?
The shear complexity and vast amount of parts in the event give it a great statistical possibility of something, very likely minor details, not being accurate.
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Still trying to spin it eh?
The shear complexity and vast amount of parts in the event give it a great statistical possibility of something, very likely minor details, not being accurate.
so youre saying all falsehoods in the 911 report are accidental, then?
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so youre saying all falsehoods in the 911 report are accidental, then?
No
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https://news.yahoo.com/senate-investigation-finds-obama-admin-201648458.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=fb&tsrc=fb
yes - OFAG sided with terrorists or was so negligent and incompetent as to not realize he was supporting terrorists.
.
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https://news.yahoo.com/senate-investigation-finds-obama-admin-201648458.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=fb&tsrc=fb
yes - OFAG sided with terrorists or was so negligent and incompetent as to not realize he was supporting terrorists.
.
gay muslim founded and funded ISIS, true fact
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I'm a vaper. Watching MNF. Going to take a shit now.
Vaping is for those with homosexual proclivities.