Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: BayGBM on January 20, 2016, 10:01:49 AM
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Apparently there are lots of people who want to pretend that they served in the military. They want to pretend so badly that they actually acquire military uniforms/fatigues with medals etc. and parade around in public trying to enjoy the macho credibility of having been in the service. This pretense is called “stolen valor” and it became such a problem that Congress passed the Stolen Valor Act of 2012 making it a crime to fraudulently claim to have received any military decorations and awards with the intention of receiving any tangible benefit. The act was revised in 2013 after the Supreme Court ruled that casually lying by wearing uniform is a protected form of free speech. There are dudes who walk around in these uniforms who are not breaking the law because they are not getting any tangible benefit—just social caché.
There is whole genre of videos about “stolen valor” on youtube where these imposters are called out and exposed.
I am all for exposing liars and frauds, but what is the point of pretending to have served in the military? Can someone explain this to me? What kind of loser do you have to be in order to do this? ???
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donny is one of them
dresses up in his fake army uniform trying to procure panty
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It's disgusting.
I see it in bars. Worse, those wearing Fire dept t-shirts talking about 'well, I'm starting the academy soon..." in order to gain a social advantage. It only goes so far.
The actual heroes in the bar - they sit there saying nothing. Those who actually served and saw action don't talk about it 24/7.
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Fake Fat
Fake Brew
Fake retard
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Some can't handle the daily battle with the weights,waking up and going to war in the gym.
Physiques that are battlescared with dense lean muscle are our uniforms, generating attention when we're in plain clothes in public (Method101 knows what I'm talking about).
Others see the respect and honor we receive for our sacrifice and service, and realize they don't have they dedication or commitment so they buy the tshirt from bodybuilding.com.
Great thread asking GetBiggers why people would lie about ridiculous claims. There will be little soul searching being done after this.
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Stolen Valor is like pretending you have 18+ inch arms on Getbig.
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I still can't believe it was ruled to be free speech.
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"Check me out!"
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It's disgusting.
I see it in bars. Worse, those wearing Fire dept t-shirts talking about 'well, I'm starting the academy soon..." in order to gain a social advantage. It only goes so far.
The actual heroes in the bar - they sit there saying nothing. Those who actually served and saw action don't talk about it 24/7.
I have no problem with anyone wearing a shirt. I am guessing we all wear lots of t shirts from organizations we are not affiliated with, but by the time you are wearing full body fatigues or a formal marine uniform with hat and medals that's on another level. For what possible purpose? Somehow I think the people who do this are too cowardly to ever think of really enlisting.
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Videos are great, similar to a natural bodybuilder calling out synthol users.
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I still can't believe it was ruled to be free speech.
It IS a form of protected free speech; the Court's ruling was correct. If you lie on a job application or other formal documents to receive a benefit like a veteran's discount then you are in violation of the law.
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donny is one of them
dresses up in his fake army uniform trying to procure panty
this was found to be true by avesher. Donny was in the military.
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I have no problem with anyone wearing a shirt. I am guessing we all wear lots of t shirts from organizations we are not affiliated with, but by the time you are wearing full body fatigues or a formal marine uniform with hat and medals that's on another level. For what possible purpose? Somehow I think the people who do this are too cowardly to ever think of really enlisting.
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Bay of course they are to afraid to enlist. They do this strictly for attention and/or any perks/freebies. The people that are doing this aren't mentally healthy.
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It IS a form of protected free speech; the Court's ruling was correct. If you lie on a job application or other formal documents to receive a benefit like a veteran's discount then you are in violation of the law.
It's great to read you again!
The court ignored stolen social benefits. Namely; what Vets and citizens feel when someone is being sincerely thanked for their service.
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I first heard about this from that kid at the mall video posted above.
These guys have serious problems, but it's par for the course when you live in a society such as ours. The Kardashians being famous and enviable is more of a mystery.
As for another reason, that video pointed out that they might be trying to score a military discount. It's like dressing up like a cow at ChikFilA. Some people will dress up like anything for a discount!
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Apparently there are lots of people who want to pretend that they served in the military. They want to pretend so badly that they actually acquire military uniforms/fatigues with medals etc. and parade around in public trying to enjoy the macho credibility of having been in the service. This pretense is called “stolen valor” and it became such a problem that Congress passed the Stolen Valor Act of 2012 making it a crime to fraudulently claim to have received any military decorations and awards with the intention of receiving any tangible benefit. The act was revised in 2013 after the Supreme Court ruled that casually lying by wearing uniform is a protected form of free speech. There are dudes who walk around in these uniforms who are not breaking the law because they are not getting any tangible benefit—just social caché.
There is whole genre of videos about “stolen valor” on youtube where these imposters are called out and exposed.
I am all for exposing liars and frauds, but what is the point of pretending to have served in the military? Can someone explain this to me? What kind of loser do you have to be in order to do this? ???
"There were around 500 Navy Seals that served in Vietnam and I've met all 20,000 of them"-head of the Navy Seal museum.
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I use to laugh at PX Rangers.....18 yr old private with a Korea ribbon lol
pic me in Haiti
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donny is one of them
dresses up in his fake army uniform trying to procure panty
:D
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It's great to read you again!
The court ignored stolen social benefits. Namely; what Vets and citizens feel when someone is being sincerely thanked for their service.
The social benefits are not tangible. A discount for veterans buying a material good is "tangible"; a preference in job hiring for vets is "tangible." Simply liking someone or respecting them because of their service is not. If I decide to wear a stethoscope and pick up women in bars because they want to sleep with a doctor that is not a tangible benefit. It is just taking advantage of naive women. Official acts come with tangible benefits and typically require some sort of proof or affirmation via signature (like on a job application). Feelings are not tangible and not covered by the law.
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If I decide to wear a stethoscope and pick up women in bars because they want to sleep with a doctor...
LOL
That might actually work.
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These people are sad individuals. Deep down, they just want to be recognized and appreciated. They want to be seen. They don't want to feel so small in a grand universe. But, really, we are all "small," when compared to the universe. These people either need to actually enlist or find another way to be recognized.
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These people are sad individuals. Deep down, they just want to be recognized and appreciated. They want to be seen. They don't want to feel so small in a grand universe. But, really, we are all "small," when compared to the universe. These people either need to actually enlist or find another way to be recognized.
Exactly, the Aliens of Nibiru couldn't care less if we have ribbons or not.
They will treat us the same either way, royalty as peons.
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this was found to be true by avesher. Donny was in the military.
yeah on him posting a document that was mostly blanked out and could have meant anything
that ave for you always seeing the good in people
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Exactly, the Aliens of Nibiru couldn't care less if we have ribbons or not.
They will treat us the same either way, royalty as peons.
The life that exists on Planet Nibiru has more important things to worry about, like trying to align with Earth!!
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The social benefits are not tangible. A discount for veterans buying a material good is "tangible"; a preference in job hiring for vets is "tangible." Simply liking someone or respecting them because of their service is not. If I decide to wear a stethoscope and pick up women in bars because they want to sleep with a doctor that is not a tangible benefit. It is just taking advantage of naive women. Official acts come with tangible benefits and typically require some sort of proof or affirmation via signature (like on a job application). Feelings are not tangible and not covered by the law.
Women? Really, Bay? :)
Benefits may not be tangible but their effects can be seen. Last year, while waiting for a flight, Southwest they announced that some WWII Veterans were passing through to a connecting flight. Many of us applauded or went out to thank them. The effects on them (sitting up a little straighter, walking a little taller, smiles) were mirrored in onlookers. It felt like the gratitude lightened us all.
Someone shouldn't be able to steal an experience others fought hard to earn.
Playing doctor, 20" arms, 500LB bench press, and other silly shit isn't in the same category.
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Apparently there are lots of people who want to pretend that they served in the military. They want to pretend so badly that they actually acquire military uniforms/fatigues with medals etc. and parade around in public trying to enjoy the macho credibility of having been in the service. This pretense is called “stolen valor” and it became such a problem that Congress passed the Stolen Valor Act of 2012 making it a crime to fraudulently claim to have received any military decorations and awards with the intention of receiving any tangible benefit. The act was revised in 2013 after the Supreme Court ruled that casually lying by wearing uniform is a protected form of free speech. There are dudes who walk around in these uniforms who are not breaking the law because they are not getting any tangible benefit—just social caché.
There is whole genre of videos about “stolen valor” on youtube where these imposters are called out and exposed.
I am all for exposing liars and frauds, but what is the point of pretending to have served in the military? Can someone explain this to me? What kind of loser do you have to be in order to do this? ???
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=586642.0
(http://fineartamerica.com/images-simple-print/images/artworkimages/medium/1/john-wilkes-booth-wanted-poster-war-is-hell-store.jpg)
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Are these the sort of people who are survivalists? They have stockpiles of weapons and munitions in their basements with lots of canned food waiting for the zombie apocalypse or for the government to collapse.. or come take their guns?
If you are going to pretend, why not pretend to be something more substantial than a grunt Dick Cheney would dispose of in an unnecessary war? Back in 2002 a movie called Catch Me if You Can featured a serial phoney who donned many identities--including an airline pilot--to advance himself. At least he aimed high... so to speak.
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I would never approach someone who was obviously not in the military, but wearing a uniform. These people are almost always mentally ill to some degree. Some of these videos have ex-military who were in for what, four years? That in itself is a bit strange. In your vast experience of four military years, you're going to go call out some nutcase in uniform? Why?
The gov't is only concerned about wearing a uniform if you're doing it claim financial benefit. That shows you what the gov't is concerned with and has always been concerned with: money. They don't care that some asshole is out there impersonating a soldier, and how that insults a serving (and ex) military members. They only care if that asshole scams a free cheeseburger on Veteran's Day.
It's all fucked.
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I lol'ed at the fat fk video....not a lot of 11 series that look like private Pile
11BangBang....thats the MOS he chose to impersonate, he is retarded
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I lol'ed at the fat fk video....not a lot of 11 series that look like private Pile
11BangBang....thats the MOS he chose to impersonate, he is retarded
(http://cdn2.teen.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/week-in-review-channing-tatum-laughing-1.gif)
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I have no problem with anyone wearing a shirt. I am guessing we all wear lots of t shirts from organizations we are not affiliated with, but by the time you are wearing full body fatigues or a formal marine uniform with hat and medals that's on another level. For what possible purpose? Somehow I think the people who do this are too cowardly to ever think of really enlisting.
Exactly. The only other reason a man should ever wear a military uniform, without actually ever having served, is when they are hired to take sensual pictures in one.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4tf5lWbFvGU/Ub3CeFmUb5I/AAAAAAAACNY/XFHHAxNkjwk/s1600/army+bodybuilding.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_iBQo77PwEww/TTwn-_lco3I/AAAAAAAAJng/Z6O6rqmfejM/s1600/jay_cutler_mrOlympia_ifbb_bodybuilder_photoshoot_army_2011_4.jpg)
(http://galeriekulturistiky.webz.cz/cicherillo/Bob%20Cicherillo%2012.jpg)
"1"
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Exactly. The only other reason a man should ever wear a military uniform, without actually ever having served, is when they are hired to take sensual pictures in one.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_rDNyQdDXib8/Scl3QuXbTdI/AAAAAAAAEI0/eeMnAi9lGHk/s400/DanielHill24.jpg)
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1.) Americans love war heroes.
2.) pretend to be a War veteran
3.) ???
4.) profit!!!
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1.) Americans love war heroes.
2.) pretend to be a War veteran
3.) ???
4.) profit!!!
They just want love, right? :D
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Nobody's ever a bulk fuel specialist or turret mechanic...their all airborne rangers or seals. I don't think these idiots realize how easy it is figure out if you're a SEAL. A buddy of mine did a friend of the court brief before the Supreme Court when this came up. I think it demeans service and a lot of these guys actually get things for it. Houses, gun, discounts and you would be shocked how many fake Vietnam vets have gotten VA benefits and jobs because of it. Todays its SEALS, in Vietnam it was being a POW. Everybody was a POW
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Stolen Valor is like pretending you have 18+ inch arms on Getbig.
Or pretending you have a happy marriage on Facebook.
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Exactly. The only other reason a man should ever wear a military uniform, without actually ever having served, is when they are hired to take sensual pictures in one.
I just knew there was a bodybuilding connection in all this... somewhere. Thanks for articulating it. :D
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Nobody's ever a bulk fuel specialist or turret mechanic...their all airborne rangers or seals. I don't think these idiots realize how easy it is figure out if you're a SEAL. A buddy of mine did a friend of the court brief before the Supreme Court when this came up. I think it demeans service and a lot of these guys actually get things for it. Houses, gun, discounts and you would be shocked how many fake Vietnam vets have gotten VA benefits and jobs because of it. Todays its SEALS, in Vietnam it was being a POW. Everybody was a POW
yup, no 88Mikes...truck drivers or cooks, or admin.....all combat MOS's and if they knew what combat MOS's were really like, they would have re-classified like I did as soon as I could.
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1.) Americans love war heroes.
2.) pretend to be a War veteran
3.) ???
4.) profit!!!
Today we do. In the 70s people who wore uniforms coming back from Vietnam were spit on and protested against (or so I've been told, could have been lies).
I'm sure there weren't many walking around in uniforms that weren't their own during that time. Today we honor those who serve. It's not odd to thank someone in uniform for their service.
It's interesting thinking that these people are of sound mind and would have rational a thought process when wearing the uniform. Watch 30 seconds of a posted video and it's clear why these people are wearing the uniform, sf1900 addressed this.
Lol at thinking one of these ppeople have the mental abilities and fortitude to pull off "a catch me if you can type of stunt".
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Today we do. In the 70s people who wore uniforms coming back from Vietnam were spit on and protested against (or so I've been told, could have been lies).
I'm sure there weren't many walking around in uniforms that weren't their own during that time. Today we honor those who serve. It's not odd to thank someone in uniform for their service.
It's interesting thinking that these people are of sound mind and would have rational a thought process when wearing the uniform. Watch 30 seconds of a posted video and it's clear why these people are wearing the uniform, sf1900 addressed this.
Lol at thinking one of these ppeople have the mental abilities and fortitude to pull off "a catch me if you can type of stunt".
Touché! :'(
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Women? Really, Bay? :)
Benefits may not be tangible but their effects can be seen. Last year, while waiting for a flight, Southwest they announced that some WWII Veterans were passing through to a connecting flight. Many of us applauded or went out to thank them. The effects on them (sitting up a little straighter, walking a little taller, smiles) were mirrored in onlookers. It felt like the gratitude lightened us all.
Someone shouldn't be able to steal an experience others fought hard to earn.
Playing doctor, 20" arms, 500LB bench press, and other silly shit isn't in the same category.
It IS in the same category and the Court has ruled so. Again, the Court’s ruling is the correct one. Your decision to applaud the military passengers (and assign value to their military service) is a personal choice. There is nothing wrong with that choice but it IS a choice. Conversely there are plenty of people who look down on the military because they are “killers” “losers” etc. That view is also a choice. Point is, the military passengers are not entitled to your adulation. It is something you and others freely gave. The fact that you gave adulation without knowing if the person even served in the military is totally on you. It is like being a kid and admiring the guy with big muscles believing he is a natural fit athlete. Later, you learn he was on steroids or it was all synthol, or it was all a muscle suit. The muscle guy was never entitled to your admiration. You gave it out of ignorance because you assigned value to what looked like a good physique and you made assumptions about what it took to develop that physique. In both cases, what you are really made about is that you made a fool of yourself (for admiring fake military folk or a fake muscle guy).
When tangible benefits (discounts for vets, hiring preferences for vets, etc.) are at stake the law appropriately makes it a crime to fraudulently seek those benefits if you are not legitimately entitled to them. Attempting to do so is, in fact, stealing. :-X
An emotional benefit and a tangible benefit are not the same thing. They can't be if for no other reason than emotions are capricious.
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This is weird and sad.
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The court has made mistakes before, Bay. Separate but equal was confirmed and later decreed unconstitutional.
Failure to attach a value to intangibles doesn't mean they don't exist. Alienation of affection, for example was once used in divorce proceedings.
It's a free country, as they say. It's okay if you or the court doesn't see what's at stake.
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One time I got dressed in all black, Rambo-style, and took a massive pair of bolt-cutters and nicked a military bike. - Zlatan Ibrahimovic
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If I decide to wear a stethoscope and pick up women in bars because they want to sleep with a doctor...
they might be a little disappointed when they learn that you are a cock connoisseur :D
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Stolen Valor pukes piss me off.
They almost always give themselves away by claiming to be some sort of Green Beret-style "secret squirrel" ... so secret that their service records are "classified" or were "destroyed."
No one ever pretends to be an army cook or truck driver.
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Stolen Valor pukes piss me off.
They almost always give themselves away by claiming to be some sort of Green Beret-style "secret squirrel" ... so secret that their service records are "classified" or were "destroyed."
No one ever pretends to be an army cook or truck driver.
They remind me of people who claim to remember past lives. It's always something interesting, LOL!
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They remind me of people who claim to remember past lives. It's always something interesting, LOL!
exactly...everyone was the king of this or the queen of that
no one ever worked in accounts payable
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I use to laugh at PX Rangers.....18 yr old private with a Korea ribbon lol
pic me in Haiti
what was the percentage of good soldiers to shitbags in your day?
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Today we do. In the 70s people who wore uniforms coming back from Vietnam were spit on and protested against (or so I've been told, could have been lies).
I'm sure there weren't many walking around in uniforms that weren't their own during that time. Today we honor those who serve. It's not odd to thank someone in uniform for their service.
It's interesting thinking that these people are of sound mind and would have rational a thought process when wearing the uniform. Watch 30 seconds of a posted video and it's clear why these people are wearing the uniform, sf1900 addressed this.
Lol at thinking one of these ppeople have the mental abilities and fortitude to pull off "a catch me if you can type of stunt".
In this day and age, veterans are appreciated and often thanked for their service in public. You can see the glow in these peoples eyes when they discuss their (pretend) service. They light up. They feel important. We all want to feel special and important. These men are just going about it the wrong way. Its disheartening to see!
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Where is NM?
(http://oi59.tinypic.com/1692kpw.jpg)
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911 probably has more to do with people appreciating Vets than we'd care to admit.
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It took two full pages before Navy Mike came up.
Sloppy, Getbig, way sloppy.
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It took two full pages before Navy Mike came up.
Sloppy, Getbig, way sloppy.
There is a man who sailed the seas,
to wage war on the enemies,
He would have fought so gallantly,
alas, if not, for his wounded knee
He checked his watch, and had a hunch,
that he just might be the first for lunch,
To the galley! he cried, and bid farewell,
then bolted for the ships stairwell,
But a man like he, was born to lose,
the stupid prick never tied his shoes.
The crash was like a nuclear bomb,
as cowhead hit the stairs full on,
how quickly things had gone so wrong.
Help me sir! he cried in pain,
i'll never bodybuild again!
but cowhead's cries were all in vain,
the casevac had never came.
So up he got, and faked a limp,
it's time to milk this, thought the human blimp,
I'll claim disability, and PTSD
and surely then i'll live for free,
stealing parking spaces from the elderly
its going to be so great, said he.
Some say he's a lying twat,
who looks like shit whether thin or fat,
but no not me, i won't stand for that!
cause Mike's my friend and that is that!
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Where is NM?
(http://oi59.tinypic.com/1692kpw.jpg)
LMAO!!! lol
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(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRe-hqcp_Ispmo7mPhfT0z8Xt81Monvj9DjcJrX2-6U52wcBgtB)
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Tours of "Halo" and "Call of Duty" don't count, guys.
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It took two full pages before Navy Mike came up.
Sloppy, Getbig, way sloppy.
There was no access until it ramped up a bit.
(http://oi59.tinypic.com/1692kpw.jpg)
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Sadly, a Marine SgtMaj from 3/2 was caught embellishing his bio in 2015. I don't get it when anyone does it but especially not someone who already has a great service record.
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what was the percentage of good soldiers to shitbags in your day?
70/30
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There are two types of veterans I see. the modest ones and the ones that want all the freebies that come with it. Was at a football game and they asked all the vets to stand up for appreciation. The attention whores are on their feet before the announcer finishes his sentence but then there's guys still sitting and you see their friends pulling them up forcing them to acknowledge it but they are just content to stay seated and don't want the extra attention. Those are the guys I respect. They fought for their country, not for the freebies and celebrity but just out of loyalty to their country.
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There are two types of veterans I see. the modest ones and the ones that want all the freebies that come with it. Was at a football game and they asked all the vets to stand up for appreciation. The attention whores are on their feet before the announcer finishes his sentence but then there's guys still sitting and you see their friends pulling them up forcing them to acknowledge it but they are just content to stay seated and don't want the extra attention. Those are the guys I respect. They fought for their country, not for the freebies and celebrity but just out of loyalty to their country.
My grandpa fought in WW 2 in Belgium (he fought in the "Battle of Bulge," which was perhaps the bloodiest battle in WW 2). When my grandpa was alive, I would sometimes ask him about his experience. His response was, "I had a job to do and I did it. There is not much else to say." He would respond like this no matter who asked the question (except my grandma). That is why I believe guys like Chris Kyle are an affront to American veterans. My grandma told me that my grandpa was not happy (like Chris Kyle) that he had to kill another human being. Again, he did it because he was protecting his country. Plain and simple. But he didn't seek enjoyment out of killing. He didn't walk around in his army fatigues. He didn't seek "celebrity" status, etc. He didn't outright tell people he was in the war. By looking at him, you would have never guessed he was a WW 2 vet. Now I see guys everywhere (malls, movies) walking around in their fatigues. Who goes to a mall in army fatigues? ??? ???
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filt...
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donny is one of them
dresses up in his fake army uniform trying to procure panty
I did collect a lot of panties thanks to my service. Girls like a Man in Uniform. While we are on the subject post your record of service like i did.
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Ron should make shirts with stars on the sleeves so notable GetBiggers can get the admiration that they deserve while in public.
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Ron should make shirts with stars on the sleeves so notable GetBiggers can get the admiration that they deserve while in public.
would you need one? never heard of you.
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fatmc Chicken boy
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would you need one? never heard of you.
I was part of the mod crew "247" back in '82 on Getbig. You probably weren't around. All the threads were destroyed and harddrives wiped.
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I was part of the mod crew "247" back in '82 on Getbig. You probably weren't around. All the threads were destroyed and harddrives wiped.
ok ::)
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yeah on him posting a document that was mostly blanked out and could have meant anything
that ave for you always seeing the good in people
listen shit bag put up your service details.
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911 probably has more to do with people appreciating Vets than we'd care to admit.
americans honored the vets that came from ww2. Why you guys didnt honored the vietnam war was because it was a controvoersial war that drew lots of protesters but they should have gpne to the politicans that made the war happen and not the traumatized 19 year olds that came back..it was a ugly war
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americans honored the vets that came from ww2. Why you guys didnt honored the vietnam war was because it was a controvoersial war that drew lots of protesters but they should have gpne to the politicans that made the war happen and not the traumatized 19 year olds that came back..it was a ugly war
WWII and 911 had attacks on American soil.
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listen shit bag put up your service details.
What about you put up your service details?
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My grandpa fought in WW 2 in Belgium (he fought in the "Battle of Bulge," which was perhaps the bloodiest battle in WW 2). When my grandpa was alive, I would sometimes ask him about his experience. His response was, "I had a job to do and I did it. There is not much else to say." He would respond like this no matter who asked the question (except my grandma). That is why I believe guys like Chris Kyle are an affront to American veterans. My grandma told me that my grandpa was not happy (like Chris Kyle) that he had to kill another human being. Again, he did it because he was protecting his country. Plain and simple. But he didn't seek enjoyment out of killing. He didn't walk around in his army fatigues. He didn't seek "celebrity" status, etc. He didn't outright tell people he was in the war. By looking at him, you would have never guessed he was a WW 2 vet. Now I see guys everywhere (malls, movies) walking around in their fatigues. Who goes to a mall in army fatigues? ??? ???
A pet hate of mine is people who cut about outside of work in their military uniform. Its just attention whoring.
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A pet hate of mine is people who cut about outside of work in their military uniform. Its just attention whoring.
agree with you there. Only time i wore my uniform "outside" in public was doing Ceremonial Duties at Edinburgh Castle and a Recruiting Tour in Scotland for the Regiment. In fact i got in the news papers ;D. Other than that you were told not to wear anything showing you were a soldier due to security. Maybe it´s diffrent now i don´t know.
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::)
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::)
Good morning Ginger ;)
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::)
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A pet hate of mine is people who cut about outside of work in their military uniform. Its just attention whoring.
And every time they bend down to reach the Sainsbury's bargain shelf their big bearskin hat keeps toppling off.
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Stolen Valor: The U.S. Volunteers in Ukraine Who Lie, Waste and Bicker
People who would not be allowed anywhere near the battlefield in a U.S.-led war are active on the Ukrainian front, with ready access to American weapons.
By Justin Scheck and Thomas Gibbons-Neff
They rushed to Ukraine by the thousands, many of them Americans who promised to bring military experience, money or supplies to the battleground of a righteous war. Hometown newspapers hailed their commitment, and donors backed them with millions of dollars.
Now, after a year of combat, many of these homespun groups of volunteers are fighting with themselves and undermining the war effort. Some have wasted money or stolen valor. Others have cloaked themselves in charity while also trying to profit off the war, records show.
One retired Marine lieutenant colonel from Virginia is the focus of a U.S. federal investigation into the potentially illegal export of military technology. A former Army soldier arrived in Ukraine only to turn traitor and defect to Russia. A Connecticut man who lied about his military service has posted live updates from the battlefield — including his exact location — and boasted about his easy access to American weapons. A former construction worker is hatching a plan to use fake passports to smuggle in fighters from Pakistan and Iran.
And in one of the more curious entanglements, one of the largest volunteer groups is embroiled in a power struggle involving an Ohio man who falsely claimed to have been both a U.S. Marine and a LongHorn Steakhouse assistant manager. The dispute also involves a years-old incident on Australian reality TV.
Such characters have a place in Ukraine’s defense because of the arms-length role the United States has taken: The Biden administration sends weapons and money but not professional troops. That means people who would not be allowed anywhere near the battlefield in a U.S.-led war are active on the Ukrainian front — often with unchecked access to weapons and military equipment.
Many of the volunteers who hurried to Ukraine did so selflessly and acted with heroism. Some have lost their lives. Foreigners have rescued civilians, aided the wounded and fought ferociously alongside Ukrainians. Others raised money for crucial supplies.
But in Europe’s largest land war since 1945, the do-it-yourself approach does not discriminate between trained volunteers and those who lack the skills or discipline to assist effectively.
The New York Times reviewed more than 100 pages of documents from inside volunteer groups and interviewed more than 30 volunteers, fighters, fund-raisers, donors and American and Ukrainian officials. Some spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive information.
The interviews and research reveal a series of deceptions, mistakes and squabbles that have hindered the volunteer drive that began after Russia’s full-scale invasion in February 2022, when President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine called for help. “Every friend of Ukraine who wants to join Ukraine in defending the country, please come over,” he said. “We will give you weapons.”
Thousands answered the call. Some joined military groups like the International Legion, which Ukraine formed for foreign fighters. Others took roles in support or fund-raising. With Kyiv, Ukraine’s capital, under attack, there was little time for vetting arrivals. So people with problematic pasts, including checkered or fabricated military records, became entrenched in the Legion and a constellation of other volunteer groups.
Asked about these problems, the Ukrainian military did not address specific issues but did say that it was on guard because Russian agents regularly tried to infiltrate volunteer groups. “We investigated such cases and handed them over to law enforcement agencies,” said Andriy Cherniak, a representative for Ukrainian military intelligence.
‘A Million Lies’
One of the best-known Americans on the battlefield is James Vasquez. Days after the invasion, Mr. Vasquez, a Connecticut home-improvement contractor, announced that he was leaving for Ukraine. His local newspaper told the tale of a former U.S. Army staff sergeant who left behind his job and family and picked up a rifle and a rucksack on the front line.
Since then, he has posted battlefield videos online, at least once broadcasting his unit’s precise location to everyone, including the opposing side. He used his story to solicit donations. “I was in Kuwait during Desert Storm, and I was in Iraq after 9/11,” Mr. Vasquez said in a fund-raising video. He added, “This is a whole different animal.”
Mr. Vasquez, in fact, was never deployed to Kuwait, Iraq or anywhere else, a Pentagon spokeswoman said. He specialized in fuel and electrical repairs. And he left the Army Reserve not as a sergeant as he claimed, but as a private first class, one of the Army’s lowest ranks.
Still, Mr. Vasquez had easy access to weapons, including American rifles. Where did they come from? “I’m not exactly sure,” Mr. Vasquez said in a text message. The rifles, he added, were “brand-new, out of the box and we have plenty.” He also tweeted that he should not have to worry about international rules of war while in Ukraine.
He fought alongside Da Vinci’s Wolves, a Ukrainian far-right battalion, until this past week, when The Times asked about his false military service claims. He immediately deactivated his Twitter account and said that he might leave Ukraine because the authorities had discovered that he was fighting without a required military contract.
Mr. Vasquez said he had been misrepresenting his military record for decades. He acknowledged being kicked out of the Army but would not talk publicly about why. “I had to tell a million lies to get ahead,” Mr. Vasquez said in an interview. “I didn’t realize it was going to come to this.”
Public Quarrels
The International Legion, hastily formed by the Ukrainian government, spent 10 minutes or less checking each volunteer’s background early in the war, one Legion official said. So a Polish fugitive who had been jailed in Ukraine for weapon violations got a position leading troops. Soldiers told The Kyiv Independent that he had misappropriated supplies, harassed women and threatened his soldiers.
Ukrainian officials initially boasted of 20,000 potential Legion volunteers, but far fewer actually enlisted. Currently, there are around 1,500 members in the organization, say people with knowledge of the Legion.
Some are experienced fighters working as part of the Defense Intelligence of Ukraine. But there have been high-profile problems. A former Army private first class, John McIntyre, was ejected from the Legion for bad behavior. Mr. McIntyre defected to Russia and recently appeared on state-run television, which said he had provided military intelligence to Moscow.
Internal documents show that the Legion is struggling. Recruitment has stagnated. The Washington-based Counter Extremism Project wrote in March that the Legion and affiliated groups “continue to feature individuals widely seen as unfit to perform their duties.”
Malcolm Nance, a former Navy cryptologist and MSNBC commentator, arrived in Ukraine last year and made a plan to bring order and discipline to the Legion. Instead, he became enmeshed in the chaos.
Mr. Nance, whose television appearances have made him one of the most visible Americans supporting Ukraine, was an experienced military operator. He drafted a code of honor for the organization and, by all accounts, donated equipment.
Today, Mr. Nance is involved in a messy, distracting power struggle. Often, that plays out on Twitter, where Mr. Nance taunted one former ally as “fat” and an associate of “a verified con artist.”
He accused a pro-Ukraine fund-raising group of fraud, providing no evidence. After arguing with two Legion administrators, Mr. Nance wrote a “counterintelligence” report trying to get them fired. Central to that report is an accusation that one Legion official, Emese Abigail Fayk, fraudulently tried to buy a house on an Australian reality TV show with money she didn’t have. He labeled her “a potential Russian spy,” offering no evidence. Ms. Fayk denied the accusations and remains with the Legion.
Mr. Nance said that as a member of the Legion with an intelligence background, when he developed concerns, he “felt an obligation to report this to Ukrainian counterintelligence.”
The dispute goes to the heart of who can be trusted to speak for and raise money for the Legion.
Mr. Nance has left Ukraine but continues fund-raising with a new group of allies. One of them, Ben Lackey, is a former Legion member. He told his fellow volunteers that he was once a Marine and wrote on LinkedIn that he had most recently been an assistant manager at LongHorn Steakhouse. In fact, the Pentagon said he had no military experience (and he worked as a server, the steakhouse said).
In an interview, Mr. Lackey said that he had lied about being a U.S. Marine so he could join the Legion.
With Legion growth stalling, Ryan Routh, a former construction worker from Greensboro, N.C., is seeking recruits from among Afghan soldiers who fled the Taliban. Mr. Routh, who spent several months in Ukraine last year, said he planned to move them, in some cases illegally, from Pakistan and Iran to Ukraine. He said dozens had expressed interest.
“We can probably purchase some passports through Pakistan, since it’s such a corrupt country,” he said in an interview from Washington.
It is not clear whether he has succeeded, but one former Afghan soldier said he had been contacted and was interested in fighting if it meant leaving Iran, where he was living illegally.
Misdirected Donations
Grady Williams, a 65-year-old retired engineer with no military experience and a methamphetamine conviction from 2019, was a volunteer tour guide at Ronald Reagan’s Santa Barbara ranch when he heard Mr. Zelensky’s plea for volunteers.
“I shot rifles since I was 13,” he said in an interview. “I had no excuse to say, ‘Well, I shouldn’t go.’”
He said he had flown to Poland, hitchhiked to Ukraine and taken a train to Kyiv. He bumped into two Americans in military-looking gear. “They said, ‘Dude, come with us,’” he said.
The volunteers brought Mr. Williams to a base near the front and gave him a gun. Days later, he said, he was nearly blown up while fighting alongside Ukrainian soldiers from a trench near Bucha. Within a week, the military realized that he had not registered to fight and sent him back to Kyiv.
From there, he took a circuitous path that ended in raising money for volunteers from the Republic of Georgia. He raised about $16,000, telling donors that their money would buy electric motorcycles for fighters. But the Georgians kicked him out after he got into a conflict with another volunteer. He said he had spent about $6,900 of the contributions on down payments for motorbikes and the rest on his travel and other expenses.
He has since linked up with a new group, which he said had promised him command of a motorcycle unit if he raised enough money. So he moved this month to Odesa, Ukraine, he said, and expects to deliver a single motorbike soon.
Examples of wasted money in the hands of well-intentioned people are common. Mriya Aid, a group led by an active-duty Canadian lieutenant colonel, spent about $100,000 from donors on high-tech U.S.-style night-vision devices. They ended up being less-effective Chinese models, internal documents show.
“We experienced a problem with the night vision,” said Lubomyr Chabursky, a volunteer on Mriya Aid’s leadership team. But he said the purchase represented only 2 percent of the aid the group had provided.
Earlier this year, the Mozart Group, which two former Marines established to help Ukraine, disbanded after one sued the other, alleging theft and harassment...
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/25/world/europe/volunteers-us-ukraine-lies.html
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Our Wagner group can beat up their wagner group ;D
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Holy Shit
"One retired Marine lieutenant colonel from Virginia is the focus of a U.S. federal investigation into the potentially illegal export of military technology. A former Army soldier arrived in Ukraine only to turn traitor and defect to Russia. A Connecticut man who lied about his military service has posted live updates from the battlefield — including his exact location — and boasted about his easy access to American weapons. A former construction worker is hatching a plan to use fake passports to smuggle in fighters from Pakistan and Iran.
And in one of the more curious entanglements, one of the largest volunteer groups is embroiled in a power struggle involving an Ohio man who falsely claimed to have been both a U.S. Marine and a LongHorn Steakhouse assistant manager. The dispute also involves a years-old incident on Australian reality TV.
Such characters have a place in Ukraine’s defense because of the arms-length role the United States has taken: The Biden administration sends weapons and money but not professional troops. That means people who would not be allowed anywhere near the battlefield in a U.S.-led war are active on the Ukrainian front — often with unchecked access to weapons and military equipment."
It was bound to happen, Criminals and other loose cannons thought of a way to easily get ahold of Top Notch American Hardware.
We probably have a bunch of serial killers down there too who lied about their military service and are just there to kill people (Any)
Hilarious if some criminals there export all the hardware given from other countries to lets say the Saudis :D