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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: bmacsys on March 14, 2006, 06:09:12 AM
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I think they did the right thing. True Canseco profited handsomely by writing his book. But now I think the sport has been forced to clean itself up. That worm Selig can't hide his head in the sand anymore. Baseball is getting so much bad press over this. Stats are sacred in baseball way more so than other sports but guys with superhuman strength from the sauce and guys who can only DH have who should have retired but can still swing the bat have skewed the record books.
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I think they did the right thing. True Canseco profited handsomely by writing his book. But now I think the sport has been forced to clean itself up. That worm Selig can't hide his head in the sand anymore. Baseball is getting so much bad press over this. Stats are sacred in baseball way more so than other sports but guys with superhuman strength from the sauce and guys who can only DH have who should have retired but can still swing the bat have skewed the record books.
Even if you have no moral stance, per se, about the use of anabolics in sports, what exactly is noble about Canseco or Caminiti "coming clean"?
Both of them did so, not during the prime of their careers, but LOOOOOOOOOOOOONG after their days in the sun were done.....LOOOOOOOOONNNNN G after making the millions, setting the records, winning the World titles, etc.
Neither one has/had to give up the money or the rings, for admitting to steroid use post-career, something they likely would NOT have done during their heyday.
If anything, the "tell-all" books are merely another way to squeeze extra dollars out of the baseball fans.
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I agree with Mcway
I also agree with the two guys though, great idea to profit on this.
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i dont want anyone doing steriods ........except of course for my team !
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Not that it matters in the big picture, but for the integrity of the game, Bonds should come clean. He's already going into the record book with an* besides his name and #'s. It might give him back a little honor that's sliding away every time he opens his mouth.
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Jose's cool, it would have come out anyway. He knew it and wanted to capitalize when his info would be at a premium-if he'd have waited a year or two later, it wouldn't have had the same impact given what's come out since.
Bonds is a turd; coming clean now won't have much effect, it's too late.
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I couldn't really care less for baseball, but I think Canseco's awesome.. I love his view on using gear and agree with him totally.
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Who the fuck cares if they use roids in the first place?
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Jose's cool, it would have come out anyway. He knew it and wanted to capitalize when his info would be at a premium-if he'd have waited a year or two later, it wouldn't have had the same impact given what's come out since.
Bonds is a turd; coming clean now won't have much effect, it's too late.
Jose is a lot smarter than people gave him credit for.
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it's official steroids and hgh = homeruns. witness bradwilkerson 04=32 hrs. 05= 11hrs. adrian beltre 48 hrs in 04. in 05 19 hrs. carlos beltran 38 hrs. 04 . in 05 16 hrs. sammy say it isn't sosa 04 35 hrs and in 05 14 dingers 06 retirement. is it a coincidence in a players free agent year they have a huge production spike i think not. sammy made some 123 million dollars in his career unlike bodybuilding steroid use{abuse} is highly lucreative in baseball.
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Who the f**k cares if they use roids in the first place?
Maybe anyone who is concerned about the integrity of the game!
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Maybe anyone who is concerned about the integrity of the game!
How does roid use break it's integrity?
What a fucking retarded argument.
Me, if I were in charge, I'd have everybody on roids so I could see more super-human shit.
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Maybe anyone who is concerned about the integrity of the game!
they all try to cheat in some way
I heard Sean Casey does eye exercises to improve his eyesight
if you can't see the ball you can't hit it
they didn't have those when Babe Ruth played and you can bet not every player in the game today does these exercises
by the way I don't think caminiti profited in anyway by coming clean unlike canseco
E
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Who the f**k cares if they use roids in the first place?
correctamundo
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It's like admitting to an affair five years after being divorced.]
It didn't take any courage whatsoever because there was nothing at risk.
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Not that it matters in the big picture, but for the integrity of the game, Bonds should come clean. He's already going into the record book with an* besides his name and #'s. It might give him back a little honor that's sliding away every time he opens his mouth.
Again, there's no point. He still keeps the millions and the home run record, as you can't retro-test anybody. Until he officially tests positive under baseball doping procedures, there's little that can be done about Bonds.
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Again, there's no point. He still keeps the millions and the home run record, as you can't retro-test anybody.
Wrong, you've missed the point. The records they've confiscated are in such detail that they basically amount to the type of back-test that various international track & field bodies have used to remove records and medals after the fact.
Your take is too narrow and literal, ignores the moral issue that goes to the integrity of any sport and transcends simple rules and regs that may or may not be in place.
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this is a game that would not let black men play till about 60 years ago ! lol !
let them all do steriods !
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Are you an idiot or just misinformed? Caminiti's been dead for 2 years!!
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Wrong, you've missed the point. The records they've confiscated are in such detail that they basically amount to the type of back-test that various international track & field bodies have used to remove records and medals after the fact.
Your take is too narrow and literal, ignores the moral issue that goes to the integrity of any sport and transcends simple rules and regs that may or may not be in place.
At the time Bonds set the home-run record, there was NO steroid-testing policy of any kind. Even if he were to test positive NOW, you can't use that to say, he was taking anabolics when he clobbered 71 runs over the fence.
And as stated earlier, Bonds does not have to return ONE RED CENT of the money he's earned.
The "moral" issue is whether or not Bonds broke any baseball rules, when he set that record. And, the simple answer is "NO". If Major League Baseball adopts an anti-alcohol policy or anti-womanizer policy next year, does that mean that Babe Ruth's records get wiped off the charts?
Cheating is simply breaking the rules. If the rules aren't there to be broken in the first place, there's no cheating. The issue is NOT drug use. If it were, that would me that whatever records Darryl Strawberry or Dwight Gooden set would be stricken from the records.
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The records confiscated show that he was using while setting the record. Quite viable to either remove the record, as track & field has done, or put an asterisk.
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Maybe anyone who is concerned about the integrity of the game!
Exactly, its like you work your balls off in a natural powerlifting and they suddenly let a guy who juices in and he outlifts you by 150 pounds in the bench and its still called a natural contest. Or comparing the raw bench records of Kaz and saying these guys who wear these benchshirts who lift more than Kaz did are stronger than him. Not FAIR.
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Who the f**k cares if they use roids in the first place?
That question has no value, unless you ask it outside a b.b site.
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this is a game that would not let black men play till about 60 years ago ! lol !
let them all do steriods !
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this is a game that would not let black men play till about 60 years ago ! lol !
let them all do steriods !
60 years ago they didn't let black men do ANYTHING.
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Exactly, its like you work your balls off in a natural powerlifting and they suddenly let a guy who juices in and he outlifts you by 150 pounds in the bench and its still called a natural contest. Or comparing the raw bench records of Kaz and saying these guys who wear these benchshirts who lift more than Kaz did are stronger than him. Not FAIR.
That analogy would be accurate, except for one thing: In a natural powerlifting organization/contest, the rules state from the get-go that the participants are NOT ALLOWED to use anabolic steroids. Usually, there's some form of testing to enforce those rules.
Baseball had no such rules regarding anabolics, when Barry Bonds set the home run record. So, there was no rule violation and thus no "cheating", whether Bonds was taking steroids or not. That's the point I keep making.
These "he say, she say, tell-all" books have the legal legitimacy of the tabloids. Without any rock-hard evidence (or a full-blown confession from Bonds himself), it's little more than speculation.
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almost all those records are bogus anyway !
they should only count records after intergration !
for christ sake they had pichers with wooden legs playing
and they would not let the great negro league player in lol !
what would COOL PAPA BALL OR JOSH GIBSON DONE ?
am not black but we all have eyes to see thought this bullshit !
MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL IS FULL OF SHIT !
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almost all those records are bogus anyway !
they should only count records after intergration !
for christ sake they had pichers with wooden legs playing
and they would not let the great negro league player in lol !
what would COOL PAPA BALL OR JOSH GIBSON DONE ?
am not black but we all have eyes to see thought this bullshit !
MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL IS FULL OF SHIT !
::)
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That analogy would be accurate, except for one thing: In a natural powerlifting organization/contest, the rules state from the get-go that the participants are NOT ALLOWED to use anabolic steroids. Usually, there's some form of testing to enforce those rules.
Baseball had no such rules regarding anabolics, when Barry Bonds set the home run record. So, there was no rule violation and thus no "cheating", whether Bonds was taking steroids or not. That's the point I keep making.
These "he say, she say, tell-all" books have the legal legitimacy of the tabloids. Without any rock-hard evidence (or a full-blown confession from Bonds himself), it's little more than speculation.
No No....Mcway. according to Pumpster these are specific, detailed accounts of bonds rampant abuse that will send Bonds to the electric chair. Congress is drawing up a bill right now that will classify this book as "unimpeachable evidence of the highest order" and Bonds will have to stand trial for breaking a rule that didn't exist yet. Thay are also discussing a public stoning by white 12 year old boys with cancer. Instead of rocks they will throw baseballs. ;D
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Obviously you're not aware in general-detailed doping records aren't just in the book. Your perceptions are crap.
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Well, it wasn't just baseball. The whole black/white thing was pervasive in the whole country. That being said the white pitcher has always been dominant even since 1947 when the color barrier was broken. Babe Ruth batted against the best pitchers alive in his era. Since the color barrier has been broken there have been many great sluggers black and white. Josh Gibson was a great player but he was not the "Babe Ruth" of the Negro leagues as many think. He did not hit that many home runs and the distance of his home runs did not equal Ruth,Gehrig or Foxx, players of his era. To see the kind of home run hitter Babe Ruth was think of this- in many of the older ballparks which just were demolished like Comiskey, Tiger Stadium and a few others. Ruth had hit more balls clear out of each park than anybody before or since. And his last year was 1934.
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Obviously you're not aware in general-detailed doping records aren't just in the book. Your perceptions are crap.
What part of "it doesn't matter" aren't you grasping?
At the time Bonds set the home-run record, THERE WAS NO STEROID-TESTING POLICY in Major League Baseball. Therefore, Bonds technically wasn't cheating, regardless of any anabolics he may/may not have taken.
Today's drug-testing policy can't be used to strip Bonds of any past records. It's just like the infamous "Bert Emanuel" rule in the NFL. Emanuel' s catch, which was ruled incomplete in the 1999 NFC Championship, would be ruled a completed catch today under current NFL rules.
That doesn't change the fact that the St. Louis Rams defeated the Tampa Bay Buccaneers 11-6. The NFL can't speculate that, had thecatch been ruled complete, the Bucs would have eventually scored and beaten the Rams. And, the NFL: certainly can't take away the Rams' NFC title or their Super Bowl Championship.
In the same vein, for Bonds to be suspended NOW, he must test positive for steroids under MLB's current testing policy NOW. Until that happens, you can speculate and come out with alleged "Tell-all, whistle-blowing" books, until the cows come home. And as stated before, Bonds won't have to give back one single penny of the money that he's made.
Furthermore, if this attempt to retro-test Bonds is done, you have to do that to EVERY OTHER BASEBALL PLAYER, past and present. Do you suggest we retrotest Hank Aaron? What if he tests positive? What about Reggie Jackson? Bob Eucker? If Bonds has to endure this, so does every other MLB superstar/legend.