Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Matt on March 16, 2006, 12:23:56 PM
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I've said many times on here that the main factors in pro bodybuilding are genetics, juice, and nutrition. But if genetics were really so important wouldn't we see some reasonably big TRUE naturals out there? Instead we see few or none.
So do these pros have good genetics, or is it just a good response to heavy juice?
More and more I'm starting to think these guys just have a great response to the gear they are on.
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If a 5'8 guy is 225 he's still not big, so what the fuck?
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Matt days of the "Naturals" in Pro competion have been gone since the 70's! Where you been?
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these pros are nothing without their drugs.
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these pros are nothing without their drugs.
Just like you are nothing without your daily injection of FRESH MALE SEMEN from the local gay stripclub that you frequent, only thing is you inject inside your BUNS, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, OH BROTHER, HAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I really wonder if most pro's did train natural for a few years or started juicing at the very beginning.
Look at 120 pounds Tom Prince.
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There are a lot of good natural physiques, but they play NFL football not compete in BB contests.
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At my gym, all the juicers are all juice. At 190 I know more about gaining muscle naturally than these 220+ guys do and that is PATHETIC.
If people like Layne Norton, Adonis, etc, are indeed natural, then good for them. That is extremely rare these days.
We live in a society where everything is cured by a drug. Why would lack of muscle mass be an exception?
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Just like you are nothing without your daily injection of FRESH MALE SEMEN from the local gay stripclub that you frequent, only thing is you inject inside your BUNS, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, OH BROTHER, HAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
thanks for clarifying the "male semen" part
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thanks for clarifying the "male semen" part
You don't know what that is? It comes out of the male penis bro. :P
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What you said is exactly true...
i know it's not something the pro's like to hear but they are ALL on HUGE amounts of gear and gh. most of them never come off until they retire.
8)
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If you knew so much about gaining muscle, you wouldn't be a 190 lb weakling.
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I've said many times on here that the main factors in pro bodybuilding are genetics, juice, and nutrition. But if genetics were really so important wouldn't we see some reasonably big TRUE naturals out there? Instead we see few or none.
So do these pros have good genetics, or is it just a good response to heavy juice?
More and more I'm starting to think these guys just have a great response to the gear they are on.
Of course the pros have unbelievable steroid receptors, I've seen a ton a guys that are juiced to the gills and still look like shit. Every one of you have seen these guys at the gym.- Then I've seen guys who are just naturally genetically gifted. To make it to the pros you need both these traits. Combination of both IMO.
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If you knew so much about gaining muscle, you wouldn't be a 190 lb weakling.
Actually that has more to do with my genetics than anything. ::) Considering my mother had two kids before even surpassing 100 pounds. Now she's pushing 50 and still under 130. My sisters are barely over 100 pounds and haven't stepped on a treadmill in their lives.
For me to be 190, with the genetics that I was born with, is like an average person getting to 240.
My whole family is a bunch of boneracks. You should get to know where I started off before commenting that 190 is small. It may be for most people, but sure as hell isn't for someone whose body is begging him to be 130.
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Actually that has more to do with my genetics than anything. ::) Considering my mother had two kids before even surpassing 100 pounds. Now she's pushing 50 and still under 130. My sisters are barely over 100 pounds and haven't stepped on a treadmill in their lives.
For me to be 190, with the genetics that I was born with, is like an average person getting to 240.
My whole family is a bunch of boneracks. You should get to know where I started off before commenting that 190 is small. It may be for most people, but sure as hell isn't for someone whose body is begging him to be 130.
wtf has that pic got to do woth anything, oh, you are the moron whos says naturals have the test levels of a 12 year old girl.
btw, id hit them all.
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damn, hook me up w/ the one the right, we have nipples!!!(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=60044.0;attach=70024;image)
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wtf has that pic got to do woth anything, oh, you are the moron whos says naturals have the test levels of a 12 year old girl.
btw, id hit them all.
Yeah, but I'm just joking around when I say 95% of getbiggers (myself included) have the test levels of 12 year old girls. ;D It's just a joke about the running stereotype GB has on other boards.
And the pic is just proof that genetics are a huge force when it comes to gaining mass (or not gaining mass in my case). On the other hand, I am never above 10% body fat no matter what I eat, and it's a lot healthier to be lean and thin, so there are pros and cons. To me the pic proves that it just isn't in my genes to hold on to any weight, my sisters and mom are good examples in the family also.
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Matt days of the "Naturals" in Pro competion have been gone since the 70's! Where you been?
No true Prem Chand competed at the 1989 Mr Olympia and he was 100% drug free , he placed dead last but he turned Pro naturally and competed , and there was the much hyped Mike Ashley & Jean Paul Guillaume I don't know if they were natural but there have been some and Mike Morris competed naturaly at the last Olympia .
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190 and muscular at 10 percent bodyfat is not small by any standard Matt, BTW what nationality are you and your sisters?
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I love how people say someone has good genetics when in reality they are just good drug users.
Wow, I guess people in the hospital that respond to medication than others are genetic beasts.hahah
In actuality there is little variance in genetics in how one gains muscle.
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No true Prem Chand competed at the 1989 Mr Olympia and he was 100% drug free , he placed dead last but he turned Pro naturally and competed , and there was the much hyped Mike Ashley & Jean Paul Guillaume I don't know if they were natural but there have been some and Mike Morris competed naturaly at the last Olympia .
hahahahahahahaha, if you believe that guy was drug free i've got some oceanfront property in Nebraska i'd like to talk to you about.
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that guy is not natural.
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I've said many times on here that the main factors in pro bodybuilding are genetics, juice, and nutrition. But if genetics were really so important wouldn't we see some reasonably big TRUE naturals out there? Instead we see few or none.
So do these pros have good genetics, or is it just a good response to heavy juice?
More and more I'm starting to think these guys just have a great response to the gear they are on.
good genetics, the people who respond well to gear are the ones who resonded well to training and gaining muscle in general. no one who doest have good genetics for building muscle will become a mass monster, it's all genetics.
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190 and muscular at 10 percent bodyfat is not small by any standard Matt, BTW what nationality are you and your sisters?
hes canadian.
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Maybe he is maybe he isn't ??? but he was like just under 200lbs , he is from India and I recall reading an article that its hard to get good food in India nevermind steroids but hes not big at all , so its believable .
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190 and muscular at 10 percent bodyfat is not small by any standard Matt, BTW what nationality are you and your sisters?
Thanks bro. We are half Italian. My mom is full out Italian and my dad is full out Canadian. My older sister must tan though, because I am pretty white by comparison.
I would like to hit 200 and stay at the same body composition. Ideally naturally, but I'm open to light juicing. I don't know how I would respond though, because I will be the first to admit that gaining mass does not come easily for me. On the other hand, from recent pictures of Tom Prince I've seen, he looks my size. But obviously he is a hyperresponder. I might be too, but I would have to try it to find out. I guess you never know how you respond until you try.
I have a friend who was on roids for three years straight and was over 220 and shredded at 5'8. But that dude was wreckless. He didn't think at all of any possible health consequences (similar attitude to some pros I think).
I think my older sis is under 110 and my younger sis might actually be under 100. Look at their arms. I would honestly look exactly the same if I didn't forcefeed myself and work out all the time. I would lose so much muscle it wouldn't even be funny. I wouldn't be surprised if I would get down to 130 or under. Keeping in mind I'm a bit under 5'10 you can imagine how scrawny I would be. Like I said, I'm the first to admit I never had the genes to gain muscle.
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those are some damn pretty girls Matt.
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I think my older sis is under 110 and my younger sis might actually be under 100. Look at their arms. I would honestly look exactly the same
So you're a girl?
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those are some damn pretty girls Matt.
id hit 'em.
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So you're a girl?
nah ehs just built like one, and has the natural test levels of one. Hes just a bit smaller than rob1986.
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those are some damn pretty girls Matt.
haha, too bad being skinny isn't a good look for guys, or I would be set. Maybe it's just time I hit the test. ;D
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If you knew so much about gaining muscle, you wouldn't be a 190 lb weakling.
yea he should get fat like you and brag on the internet that he's 220.
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nah ehs just built like one, and has the natural test levels of one. Hes just a bit smaller than rob1986.
Not exactly accurate, but I'll be the first to tell you I have bad genetics for bodybuilding.
The first pic is from a few months before I started training in 2000. The second pic is two years old (around 10 pounds ago), but it clearly shows how muscle building is NOT in my cards. What can I do? I do the best with what I have and I'm open to trying supplements/steroids in the future.
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/matt_oldpic2_new.JPG)
Have you seen the dudes who do roids on other boards? You wouldn't even know they work out even after their cycles are done! Very few of the juicers in my gym are even that much bigger than me. ??? At times I think that juice must be extremely effective, and other times, not at all (depending on the results). More proof that genetics and nutrition play a huge role as well.
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Not exactly accurate, but I'll be the first to tell you I have bad genetics for bodybuilding.
The first pic is from a few months before I started training in 2000. The second pic is two years old (around 10 pounds ago), but it clearly shows how muscle building is NOT in my cards. What can I do? I do the best with what I have and I'm open to trying supplements/steroids in the future.
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/matt_oldpic2_new.JPG)
Have you seen the dudes who do roids on other boards? You wouldn't even know they work out even after their cycles are done! Very few of the juicers in my gym are even that much bigger than me. ??? At times I think that juice must be extremely effective, and other times, not at all (depending on the results). More proof that genetics and nutrition play a huge role as well.
Matt,
Your progress is really good. Just keep it up. Your genetics are not bad at all. Try overeating or dieting all the way down. Shock your body.
Also, what happened to your face in the first pic? Just curious.
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Matt,
Based on how you make yourself out to look, I thought you would be some pencil neck. I have to agree with Adonis on this one, you do not have bad genetics as far as building muscle....seems like your mentality is like most of ours on getbig, in that we can never be big enough.....
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hey you look great matt. Not huge by any mean but you have a pretty good physique with great shoulders.
way to go ;)
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Matt,
Your progress is really good. Just keep it up. Your genetics are not bad at all. Try overeating or dieting all the way down. Shock your body.
Also, what happened to your face in the first pic? Just curious.
That pic is from an army course I did just after basic training in the summer of 2000. That's just camouflage makeup. It sucked to be covered in that crap for days out in the field.
You know what I want more than anything is nutritional strategies. But I want to do it while staying healthy too. How much do you eat Adam? I've been following some of Shawn Ray's advice which is to eat about six times a day just past the point of satisfaction. It does work...it's just slow as hell. At this point I wonder how much heavier I can get naturally. Getting to 210 would be nice, but it might take a while.
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Good progress Matt, good shoulders. If you want to add mass you gotta eat and eat and stick w compound movements. Worked for me.
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Hey guys, thanks for the good words. :)
On here I would imagine I'm small based on everyone else saying how big they are, yet at the gym or in the bar, or anywhere else, it's amazing how few people are truly big. We live in a very out of shape populace, so I guess the ones who come on the boards and have some serious size are not a representative sample. From my experience, people are usually fat (most people), or skinny. My goals are moderate but I'm always looking for an edge.
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/MLNA0047.JPG)
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i'm sure your sisters are thrilled you posted their pictures on this board.
By the way, not to knock you or anything cuz you have made crazy improvements, but, Italians (of which I am one) have amazing genetics for bodybuilding (well, maybe not the height though).
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Hey Matt you look good you've come a long way since the first pic , you remind me of my cousin he is 5'7" and weighs 190lbs and are you sure you're 10% bodyfat? are you not flexing your abs? you have excellenet genetics for delts .
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By the way, not to knock you or anything cuz you have made crazy improvements, but, Italians (of which I am one) have amazing genetics for bodybuilding (well, maybe not the height though).
That is because most are short and short people put on mass easier.
Good progress Matt. 4 years back I was 150lbs, I'm at 214lbs now @7%bf. Did all of that natural. I hit a cycle 12 years back, lost it all and learned, it feels much better gaining 2lbs natural, than 20lbs of bloat from some drugs. In the end, it's how you feel about yourself and if you're ok with juicing...do it up. Personally, I have more respect for someone who gains natural cause I know it was all hard work and no shortcuts. Some who juice work hard as well, but not many. Usually, it's like a consolation prize for having either shitty work ethic or poor genetics.
And your sister on the right looks most impressive. Where does she live? No disrespect inteneded, just curious.
I only put on 10-14lbs in the past 2 years of lean mass, but it's all me. And to me that's the challenge in lifting, there is no challenge in ingesting pills/needles. Basically, you can take a ton, train like shit, and get huge. It's no accomplishment in my eyes.
Croatch on...
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Matt..
Good build...
But even better, nice milk duds on your Sisters...
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matt, dude, you look good. do not give in to the dark side, what for?
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I really wonder if most pro's did train natural for a few years or started juicing at the very beginning.
Look at 120 pounds Tom Prince.
Tom Prince is probably one of the worst examples to use.
He literally withered away to nothing, but that was partially due to his kidney "situation".
He's the exception, not the rule
DIV
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If you knew so much about gaining muscle, you wouldn't be a 190 lb weakling.
Ever heard of "Genetics"? ::)
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No true Prem Chand competed at the 1989 Mr Olympia and he was 100% drug free , he placed dead last but he turned Pro naturally and competed , and there was the much hyped Mike Ashley & Jean Paul Guillaume I don't know if they were natural but there have been some and Mike Morris competed naturaly at the last Olympia .
Natural? Bullshit!
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Maybe he is maybe he isn't ??? but he was like just under 200lbs , he is from India and I recall reading an article that its hard to get good food in India nevermind steroids but hes not big at all , so its believable .
You've never been to India. It's not some 3rd world country like you think..India has alot of large cities. AAS is LEGAL in india so it's 100x easier to get in India than it is in America. Walk into any pharmacy and buy Dianabol for 10 times less than you would get it via the blackmarket in America.
Also most Indians speak english so it's easy too.
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Hey MATT, keep up the hard work because you have made monster improvements. Good delts....good looking sisters too.
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Thanks bro. We are half Italian. My mom is full out Italian and my dad is full out Canadian. My older sister must tan though, because I am pretty white by comparison.
I would like to hit 200 and stay at the same body composition. Ideally naturally, but I'm open to light juicing. I don't know how I would respond though, because I will be the first to admit that gaining mass does not come easily for me. On the other hand, from recent pictures of Tom Prince I've seen, he looks my size. But obviously he is a hyperresponder. I might be too, but I would have to try it to find out. I guess you never know how you respond until you try.
I have a friend who was on roids for three years straight and was over 220 and shredded at 5'8. But that dude was wreckless. He didn't think at all of any possible health consequences (similar attitude to some pros I think).
I think my older sis is under 110 and my younger sis might actually be under 100. Look at their arms. I would honestly look exactly the same if I didn't forcefeed myself and work out all the time. I would lose so much muscle it wouldn't even be funny. I wouldn't be surprised if I would get down to 130 or under. Keeping in mind I'm a bit under 5'10 you can imagine how scrawny I would be. Like I said, I'm the first to admit I never had the genes to gain muscle.
seriously who gives a shite about your sisters
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My sisters are skinny. Everyone in my family is. That's genetics for you. :-\ It reminds me of when Shawn posted a picture of him with his uncles and they were all short and bald. ;D
But aside from BB message boards, being skinny is usually a good thing, since people these days are pretty overweight. It never ceases to amaze me how many times I get asked for training advice in the gym - it just speaks for how out of shape people are when I am who they come to.
I read online that the average height of an Italian male is 5'9 and 1/2, but I find that hard to believe. At family gatherings, the tallest other than me is usually around 5'7. My grandpa is 5'0. Mike Matarazzo was 5'10 which is tall for a bodybuilder and for an Italian. My dad is 5'10 and I'm lucky to have inherited his height. Although a couple of people saw that pic and thought I was shorter in it. Must be long legs and short torso/limbs.
And ND, I'm not flexing my abs in that pic, they are there although not too deep usually, a bit better these days than two years ago. Honestly, abs don't mean much to me. If I could just bring up my chest I would be pleased. Chest is another genetic sticking point for me. I'm even thinking of looking into HIT training for it. After watching Mentzer's DVD, I'm considering it. That man defended HIT so well I thought it blew my mind.
http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/mikeandraymentzerinthegymdvd.html
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Yeah Matt, tell us how naturals have the same testosterone levels as a 12 year old girl. Tell us how it's impossible to get big without drugs. Tell us how only drug users bench 315. TELL US. You obviously know so much about training.
What a clown.
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Ever notice how insecure naturals like Matt always use circular reasoning? They say it's impossible to get big without drugs, but will label anyone with decent size as a juicer. Pathetic.
Hey Matt, most college football players would make you look like a little girl, and they aren't taking steroids. What do you have to say about that?
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I've said many times on here that the main factors in pro bodybuilding are genetics, juice, and nutrition. But if genetics were really so important wouldn't we see some reasonably big TRUE naturals out there? Instead we see few or none.
So do these pros have good genetics, or is it just a good response to heavy juice?
More and more I'm starting to think these guys just have a great response to the gear they are on.
as I have said many time before, response to gear is one of many genetic factors, along with recuperation capabilities, muscle shape, strucuture, propensity for injury, body fat levels, etc.
By that definition, Ronnie is probably the most genetically gifted bodybuilder. He has a huge frame, awesome shape, good lines, in spite of years of heavy training has not suffered any major injuries, responds well to gear, recovers very easily, etc.
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Yeah Matt, tell us how naturals have the same testosterone levels as a 12 year old girl. Tell us how it's impossible to get big without drugs. Tell us how only drug users bench 315. TELL US. You obviously know so much about training.
What a clown.
Obviously I was joking about the test remarks, that is why I included myself in the list. It's called self deprecating humour. ::)
It's impossible to get pro size without drugs. What part of this don't you understand? ???
Also, a flat bench press of 400 as a natural is world class. Very few naturals bench over 315. Again, is this unclear? In a city of over 100,000, at a recent bench comp, the top lifter put up 465 at a body weight of 290 (and obviously juiced). Where are these huge benchers which allegedly exist at every gym? Believe it or not, I am one of the few in my gym who is does working sets with 225+ on the flat bench for reps and consistently using dumbbells over 100 pounds. Maybe the getbig talkers are an accurate reflection of reality and I just live in a very weak city. The discrepancy between what I see on this board and what I see in the gyms I go to is huge.
And training doesn't mean squat compared to nutrition, gear, and genetics. I can't say for sure which of those three factors is most important, but training is definitely less than all three. If you have the right genetics, eat and juice huge, you will grow huge even if you train like a kitten - as numerous pros have proven. Some work their ass off, and others look like they are on vacation in the gym.
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Ever notice how insecure naturals like Matt always use circular reasoning? They say it's impossible to get big without drugs, but will label anyone with decent size as a juicer. Pathetic.
Hey Matt, most college football players would make you look like a little girl, and they aren't taking steroids. What do you have to say about that?
I label guys like Layne Norton and Adam as juicers because in all of TBAY, the few people who have put on more muscular size than these guys are juiced and have admitted that to me.
It's not like I'm dissing these guys. I've told them both to take it as a compliment if they are indeed natural. I just find that hard to believe in that every guy I know who is the size of Adam is cycling pretty regularly.
as I have said many time before, response to gear is one of many genetic factors, along with recuperation capabilities, muscle shape, strucuture, propensity for injury, body fat levels, etc.
By that definition, Ronnie is probably the most genetically gifted bodybuilder. He has a huge frame, awesome shape, good lines, in spite of years of heavy training has not suffered any major injuries, responds well to gear, recovers very easily, etc.
Yes, true. It's hard to say exactly which factors are the most important and in which order because BB is so individualized, but honestly, I would say for MOST training is less important than nutrition, juice, and genetics (which encompass multiple factors as you mentioned).
When Ron Harris started using, he didn't make significant gains at first. Some will respond better than others. These days it looks like Ron has been responding better to gear than when he first started using (1996 I believe).
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I read online that the average height of an Italian male is 5'9 and 1/2, but I find that hard to believe. At family gatherings, the tallest other than me is usually around 5'7. My grandpa is 5'0. Mike Matarazzo was 5'10 which is tall for a bodybuilder and for an Italian. My dad is 5'10 and I'm lucky to have inherited his height. Although a couple of people saw that pic and thought I was shorter in it. Must be long legs and short torso/limbs.
Genetics goes by family generally not by country when were talking about Europe. Italians and Germans and Austrians and French...There are really no real genetic differences between the two. There are some tall Italians and some short one's. My father is Italian and is 6'6" and I'm 6'3". My mother is German/Dutch and she's 5'2"...The average height in the Netherlands is about 5'11".
When you're talking about Asia..Then it would go by country. Asians are generally shorter genetically than europeans and the asian countries that are the poorest have the shortest populations..I.E. Vietnam or North Korea.
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Ronnie just has good genetics, does not mean he responds well to drugs, if u look at him back in his football days, u will see he was very built back then.. Drugs only enhanced his genetic potential.. case closed..
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Ronnie just has good genetics, does not mean he responds well to drugs, if u look at him back in his football days, u will see he was very built back then.. Drugs only enhanced his genetic potential.. case closed..
That's wrong.
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Ronnie just has good genetics, does not mean he responds well to drugs, if u look at him back in his football days, u will see he was very built back then.. Drugs only enhanced his genetic potential.. case closed..
You know shit about AAS and genetics.
Drugs don't affect genetic potential, the potenital was always there or it wasn't. That is what genes are.....the blueprint for all possible growth, give optimal anabolic conditions and stimulus.
The drugs only allow the individual to reach his full genetic potential. Similiar to humans only utilizing a small portion of their brain. Some supplements enhance memory and cognition, but they don't improve intelligence, only sharpen what was already there.
DIV