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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Ex Coelis on March 19, 2006, 07:03:38 PM
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If Lee Haney had competed in the 1992 Mr. Olympia in Helsinki, Finland, who would have won? The TotaLee Awesome One or the Shadow?
Assume that Haney's size and conditioning were at least the same as in 1991.
I say Lee Haney would have won. He was the reigning Mr. Olympia (always counts for something), his back was still better than Dorian's, plus he was taller and had better aesthetics.
The Big Diesal was good, but wouldnt have been good enough to overtake Lee until '93 when he truly dominated.
(http://olympia-bg.atspace.com/picturez/bodybuilderz/lee/images/lh32.jpg)
VS
(http://www.geocities.com/gymcentertr/galeri/yates1/yates14.jpg)
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I think if Lee chose to continue to compete than Yates wouldn't of been mr. Olympia for all of those years!
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Haney would have ripped him. ;D However, in 1993 it seems Dorian got a really good stash of GH, insulin, clenbuterol and horse steroids that he would have won thereafter. However, if Haney would have taken the same amount of crap...who knows. What would be more interesting is if Sergio Oliva or Arnold took the amount of stuff the guys today take, that would have been interesting. I have a feeling the Governator may have been the original Diesel and Oliva would have been like Ronnie...with a smaller waist.
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no he wouldnt arnold would of had a bigger waist than ronnie if he were to take all that shit his waist was wide to begin with ronnie at one point did have a small waist
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Part of the reason why Ronnies waist got so out of control is because of all the stress put on his body from the exessive weights he uses. Why would you need to lift 800 pound squats. I meant look at Ronnie now. I'd say about 60 punds he hides just in his stomac and ass alone. So this is the reason why Arnold was so much bigger than Coleman.
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Yates' back was better than Haney's in 91 let alone 92. His legs were better too.
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GMC, not even close. Haney had a 32 inch waist and huge shoulders. His chest absolutely anihilated Dorian and from the front it was not even close. Dorian had bigger legs, but not necessarily better. Haney had a much better back double bi at that time. By 1993/1994, Doz was bigger but he never had Haney's genetics or aesthetics.
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Haney
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GMC, not even close. Haney had a 32 inch waist and huge shoulders. His chest absolutely anihilated Dorian and from the front it was not even close. Dorian had bigger legs, but not necessarily better. Haney had a much better back double bi at that time. By 1993/1994, Doz was bigger but he never had Haney's genetics or aesthetics.
aesthetics dont mean jack shit. if they did Flex would have won several sandows.
Haney's chest destroyed Yates? news to me. Yates was tighter, drier, better back, and better legs. But he wasn't pretty, and according to you that's why he lost.
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better back my ass http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=60549.0
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Yates even had a tighter waist :o
(http://ironage.us/guest_edit/prestonpics/91%20O%205.jpg)
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Haney all the way! The next year might have been different but there was no next year, Haney retired.
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haney would have won a very very controversial show.
haney knew when to bounce. in 91 he lost the muscularity round to doz. the end was near.
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Dorian's quads look terrible
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haney would have won a very very controversial show.
haney knew when to bounce. in 91 he lost the muscularity round to doz. the end was near.
What end? Haney won 8 straight Olympias. Having broken Arnold's record, Haney had nothing left to accomplish.
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Haney's chest destroyed Yates? news to me.
Haney had the best chest in the Pro's (and the best since Arnold-hands down). No way Dorians chest could even come close to Haney's, and I have seen them both in person.
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Yates would have been the better bodybuilder by 1992 by you know what bodybuilding politics are like - Haney would have won it only just on the basis that he was current Mr Olympia. Controversial I know but with the exception of Samir Bannout in '84 that's what happens at the O, the champ always wins.
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Dorian's quads look terrible
exactly. Dorian's quads were bigger, but puffy and watery. His calves and hams were much better though.
and yes, I agree that Haney's chest destroyed Yates', hell Haney's chest practically destroys anyones.
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GMC, you are deluded if you think that Yates upper body compared favorably to Haney. Haney had better chest, shoulders, and back. His waist was like 3 inches smaller. When they turned to the side, you could really tell. Yates had bigger legs, but they were hardly shredded. It really was not a close show except the muscularity round which Dorian won 8-7. After that, it was not even close. Why don't you go to a show and see some of these guys and not always go by pics. Hell, I don't know how you get your opinion's about Dorian's superiority as his body is always washed out from the lights... ::). Is that why his in contest shape never came close to the B&W pics. I would love it if Hulkster took some shots from Coleman circa 2003 at the Mr. Olympia in shape and made them Black and White. That would be so funny, as you would really appreciate how much better he is. Haney, in mine and a lot of people's opinion, is better than both of them. Dorian's symmetry is horrible except for the 1993 show.
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Haney with #9
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GMC, you are deluded if you think that Yates upper body compared favorably to Haney. Haney had better chest, shoulders, and back. His waist was like 3 inches smaller. When they turned to the side, you could really tell. Yates had bigger legs, but they were hardly shredded. It really was not a close show except the muscularity round which Dorian won 8-7. After that, it was not even close. Why don't you go to a show and see some of these guys and not always go by pics. Hell, I don't know how you get your opinion's about Dorian's superiority as his body is always washed out from the lights... ::). Is that why his in contest shape never came close to the B&W pics. I would love it if Hulkster took some shots from Coleman circa 2003 at the Mr. Olympia in shape and made them Black and White. That would be so funny, as you would really appreciate how much better he is. Haney, in mine and a lot of people's opinion, is better than both of them. Dorian's symmetry is horrible except for the 1993 show.
Here you go 2003 Mr Olympia shots in B&W and it doesn't make him look one bit better .
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Here you go 2003 Mr Olympia shots in B&W and it doesn't make him look one bit better .
oh, no not another one of these threads...I can see it now...Ronnie sucks, Dorian sucks.....
but I will agree with ND, that shot is terrible, used to be the best in the biz now it looks like a lump of shit...
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oh, no not another one of these threads...I can see it now...Ronnie sucks, Dorian sucks.....
but I will agree with ND, that shot is terrible, used to be the best in the biz now it looks like a lump of shit...
I posted this back shot and that one from 2003 and he is just leaps & bounds better in 98
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Here you go 2003 Mr Olympia shots in B&W and it doesn't make him look one bit better .
that is not a great shot of Ronnie's back, but you are wrong about the black and white not making it look better: it would look even less detailed in colour:
eg. compare:
(http://digilander.libero.it/mrolympia2/rc174.jpg)
(http://www.bbcenter.sk/images/gallery/arnolds_classic/ronnie_coleman/coleman03.jpg)
black and white always makes the body look better. If the famous dorian shots were in colour, they would not be nearly as famous as they are now
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kinda looks like ronnie is sporting a little...gasp....polumbo ism..... :-* :-* :-*
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ND, agreed, not the best pic but there were a lot of others where he looked inhuman. However, since we are talking about Haney, and I know you like him. I think you will appreciate this shot. If he had slightly bigger legs, no one would have ever beaten him.......I am mistaken, I think he was pretty much undefeated except the 1983 Mr. Olympia. ND correct me if I am wrong. However, he would have owned Doz over and over again.
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Hulkster....I am sorry but Haney would own Coleman, also. If he took the amount of stuff that Yates and Coleman took the last ten years, he would have been beyond sick. As it is, he is still the greatest Mr. Olympia champion to the present time (Coleman included). Truly dominated the 1991 show. He was over 250 and his waist was like 30-32 inches. Insane symmetry and size :o
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ND, agreed, not the best pic but there were a lot of others where he looked inhuman. However, since we are talking about Haney, and I know you like him. I think you will appreciate this shot. If he had slightly bigger legs, no one would have ever beaten him.......I am mistaken, I think he was pretty much undefeated except the 1983 Mr. Olympia. ND correct me if I am wrong. However, he would have owned Doz over and over again.
I've said it before if they met in 1992 Haney would beat him again , in 93 Haney would have lost .
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ND, agreed, not the best pic but there were a lot of others where he looked inhuman. However, since we are talking about Haney, and I know you like him. I think you will appreciate this shot. If he had slightly bigger legs, no one would have ever beaten him.......I am mistaken, I think he was pretty much undefeated except the 1983 Mr. Olympia. ND correct me if I am wrong. However, he would have owned Doz over and over again.
ahhhh....ND isn't the only one who knows his history my friend...Haney lost to Mohomad Makkaway and Rocky defrerro-might be wrong on the spelling there- during the 1983 grand prix circuit, he also lost to Samir at the Olympia. The only O I'd say Haney really lost after his initial win was the 1990 edition, which was "drug tested"-Labrada, Shawn and Christian all had him beat on that day..
I think the sickest pics of Haney are from the 84 or 85 Olympia, he looked really dry and grainy in those...
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Hulkster....I am sorry but Haney would own Coleman, also. If he took the amount of stuff that Yates and Coleman took the last ten years, he would have been beyond sick. As it is, he is still the greatest Mr. Olympia champion to the present time (Coleman included). Truly dominated the 1991 show. He was over 250 and his waist was like 30-32 inches. Insane symmetry and size :o
I don't know about owning coleman, but as good as Lee was in 1991, he suffered from "Dorian Yates syndrome":
his torso/back were way too big for his arms:
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/haney/lh140.jpg)
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/haney/lh151.jpg)
its really, really, noticable in some shots.
Still, Lee at the 91 show was amazing: tough to beat.
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ND, I agree by 1993 Yates was the new breed. It is unfortunate that he peaked at that condition in only one show. In 1995 and beyond, he would have gotten his ass handed to him by Haney. You say Haney would have gotten beaten, but it would really be interesting to see the different doses of gear these two had to take to get to a siimilar level. Do you think Haney abused GH like todays pros. Was insulin even used by BB back in the early nineties? I am 35 now and I don't remember any of the hardcore guys in the gym who used insulin back in the early 90's. GH was just getting vogue. However, for all I know, the pro's may have been all over it.
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can we not say "doz" anymore, you people aren't fucking friends with the guy and it sounds stupid
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I love bringing Ronnies name into Any topic with the Dorian in the Title!
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i26/new187/Ronc.gif)
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i26/new187/Rond.gif)
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i26/new187/Ronl.gif)
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ND, I agree by 1993 Yates was the new breed. It is unfortunate that he peaked at that condition in only one show. In 1995 and beyond, he would have gotten his ass handed to him by Haney. You say Haney would have gotten beaten, but it would really be interesting to see the different doses of gear these two had to take to get to a siimilar level. Do you think Haney abused GH like todays pros. Was insulin even used by BB back in the early nineties? I am 35 now and I don't remember any of the hardcore guys in the gym who used insulin back in the early 90's. GH was just getting vogue. However, for all I know, the pro's may have been all over it.
Yates best years were 91 , 92 , 93 and 1995 , Peter McGough said Dorian's all time best condition exlcuding the B&W Horton pics was the 1995 Olympia he was 255lbs and hard as nails , you make a great point about Haney not having the advantages of some of the newer Pros , I don't recall isulin or hearing about the use of it until the mid 1990s as far as GH thats another thing I heard of in the 80s but I'm not sure if anyone was taking it back then , Haney had the better upper body with the exception of his lower back and Yates had the better lower body but personally Haney's aesthetics add to his arsenal thats something Yates didn't have and Yates had an edge on conditioning , so they go tit-for-tat , its interesting that Yates won the musculairty round at the 91 Olympia despite being lighter than Haney , but either way like Shawn Perine once said it would have been great if Haney did decide to keep competing it would have been some epic Sergio/Arnold wars .
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I love bringing Ronnies name into Any topic with the Dorian in the Title!
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i26/new187/Ronc.gif)
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i26/new187/Rond.gif)
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i26/new187/Ronl.gif)
Hulkster found his new avatar .
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ND, I know you and Hulkster always go on and on about Dorian versus Ronnie....very entertaining by the way. I like Ronnie 2003, but I can see where you dig Dorian in 2003 and 2005. Regardless, what do you think would happen if an alltime best Haney took on a 1998 Coleman. I am intrigued. Hulkster, please chime in as your responses are always enlightening. I feel that Haney is the first and only bodybuilder in the last twenty years who had the aesthetics of the old guys (Arnold, Sergio), but improved mass (weight of 250 or so, yet he looked more tight than Dex).
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ND, I know you and Hulkster always go on and on about Dorian versus Ronnie....very entertaining by the way. I like Ronnie 2003, but I can see where you dig Dorian in 2003 and 2005. Regardless, what do you think would happen if an alltime best Haney took on a 1998 Coleman. I am intrigued. Hulkster, please chime in as your responses are always enlightening. I feel that Haney is the first and only bodybuilder in the last twenty years who had the aesthetics of the old guys (Arnold, Sergio), but improved mass (weight of 250 or so, yet he looked more tight than Dex).
It would be close, but haney would lose.
At their best, they are similar:
Both have ridiculous tapers.
Both have insane backs
both have tiny waists but shitty abs.
Both have awesome chests
BUT:
Ronnie has better arms
Ronnie has better quads.
ronnie does have a slightly better back.
I can give you a (totally unbiased) photo essay comparison if you wish ;)
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Go for it Hulkster. That would be enlightening. I think it would be more fun if ND would chime in also. ;D
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Well here's my two cents on the entire Haney/Yates/Coleman discussion. I think that it is impossible to decide who would've won the 1993 contest had Haney not decided to retire. (Assuming that Haney won the 1992 title over Yates) First of all because we don't know how Haney's physique would've reacted to the higher doses of GH and steroids that he would've needed to compete with Yates. Maybe it would've made him bigger and better than ever, but maybe it would've made him lose his aesthetic shape, like Coleman did. Don't forget that in his prime Coleman's lines were very similar to Haney's.
Apart from that I think using photo evidence to compare physiques it a tricky thing, some bodybuilders look more impressive in pictures, while others look better in real life. Let's be honest, if we were to decide who the Mr. Olympia in the years 1993-1999 should be we'd probably all vote for Paul Dillet. Ronnie's best shape was, in my opinion, between 1997 and 2001. Yet, in his 1997 shape he lost to Yates, while it is save to assume that in his current (2005) shape he would've defeated Yates. Still most people here would agree that the 1997 Coleman looked better than the 2005 Coleman.
So what I'm trying to say is that there really is no way to decide who would've won. Personally, based on photo evidence from the 1991 Olympia, which was already close, and the assumption that Haney would not have been able to hold onto his aesthetics, I think Yates would've won the 1993 Olympia.
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I posted this back shot and that one from 2003 and he is just leaps & bounds better in 98
That's probably Coleman's best back shot ever. Check out the conditioning in the lower back, amazing, but not quite to Doz's level. Coleman feel victim to the mass game, simply adding mass for the sake of adding mass with no regards to lines, proportion, or conditioning. Quite a shame.
I would really love to see some pictures of how much Coleman progressed in the 97 Offseason. I contend that Coleman, aesthetically speaking was at his all-time best right after the 97O, around 245-250lbs. How much did he improve up to the 98O? Coleman looked great in '97, yet still was 9 places behind Yates at the O.
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ND, I agree by 1993 Yates was the new breed. It is unfortunate that he peaked at that condition in only one show. In 1995 and beyond, he would have gotten his ass handed to him by Haney. You say Haney would have gotten beaten, but it would really be interesting to see the different doses of gear these two had to take to get to a siimilar level. Do you think Haney abused GH like todays pros. Was insulin even used by BB back in the early nineties? I am 35 now and I don't remember any of the hardcore guys in the gym who used insulin back in the early 90's. GH was just getting vogue. However, for all I know, the pro's may have been all over it.
92 would have been touch and go, by past 93, there is simply no way Haney could have matched Dorian. Not in training or on the stage. Just like Coleman in 2002, Yates actually far overdepeleted for the 92O, so we had to wait 1 more year before he "shook the world." Yates condition @269lbs in the black and whites 3 weeks out (not to mention on contest day) surpasses anything Haney ever displayed.
(http://ironage.us/virtual/haney-yates.jpg)
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ronnie is clearly better than lee! imo haney is very overrated- great back and great condition, thats it.
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i26/new187/Rond.gif)
thats Orville Burke
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Haney retired in '91 with seemingly a lot left in the tank. '92 would have been close, but I think Dorian would have emerged by '93. I prefer Lee, Dorian, and Ronnie's look at <250 lbs. That would have been the ultimate show to have those 3 on stage together at that bodyweight.
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GMC, we agree to disagree. I agree that Dorian may have gotten bigger than Haney by 1993, but who is to say that Haney wouldn't have started to slam the GH and insulin to keep up. Haney has a better shape; he can get large as he outweighed Yates by 10 pounds in 1991. He has a smaller waist, better chest, equal upper back, and better shoulders. Yates had bigger legs and calves, but his legs look like logs with no cuts. Yates, I agree, was sick in the B&W photos, but they were three weeks before the contest. He wasn't as good at the contest. Moreover, I recall pics of Dennis James looking unbeatable pre-contest; it never panned out. Yates after his bicep injury would have gotten smoked by Haney or Coleman. You can't win the Mr. Olympia against guys who are as large almost (Haney) or larger with better proportions. In 1993, Yates would have been tough to beat, but you do not know what Haney would have done to keep up. Tell me Dorian didn't slam some major GH, insulin, and steroids as he gained 30 pounds between 1991 and 1993. Coleman did a similar thing when he went from 255-260 to 286 for the 2003. Then again, neither Coleman or Yates ever had close to Haney's taper and aesthetics.
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Tell me Dorian didn't slam some major GH, insulin, and steroids as he gained 30 pounds between 1991 and 1993.
According to Duchaine "Dorian was reluctant to take the large dosages of GH some other pro's were using".
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GMC, we agree to disagree. I agree that Dorian may have gotten bigger than Haney by 1993, but who is to say that Haney wouldn't have started to slam the GH and insulin to keep up. Haney has a better shape; he can get large as he outweighed Yates by 10 pounds in 1991. He has a smaller waist, better chest, equal upper back, and better shoulders. Yates had bigger legs and calves, but his legs look like logs with no cuts. Yates, I agree, was sick in the B&W photos, but they were three weeks before the contest. He wasn't as good at the contest. Moreover, I recall pics of Dennis James looking unbeatable pre-contest; it never panned out. Yates after his bicep injury would have gotten smoked by Haney or Coleman. You can't win the Mr. Olympia against guys who are as large almost (Haney) or larger with better proportions. In 1993, Yates would have been tough to beat, but you do not know what Haney would have done to keep up. Tell me Dorian didn't slam some major GH, insulin, and steroids as he gained 30 pounds between 1991 and 1993. Coleman did a similar thing when he went from 255-260 to 286 for the 2003. Then again, neither Coleman or Yates ever had close to Haney's taper and aesthetics.
I don't think yates "slammed major GH, insulin, or steroids". The reason for the HUGE jump from 92 --> 93 is that Yates learned how to bring himself down in a matter where he didnt lose his mass, this is straight from his mouth on the radio talk show. Yates would have been 255-257 in 92 had he not over-depleted. What makes you think Haney wasn't maga dosing?
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No Dorian GH gut. Dorian would not have been 255-260 in 1992. He was barely 240 in 1991. He gained the mass because he learned the art of juicing better. He also trained heavy and strict. He ate a ton. Taken together, he got amazing in 1993, but he was not so in 1992. Haney was around 245-250 since early-mid 1980. GH was not as popular then. Also, the last time Dorian had a 30-32 inch waist was when he was 16. Doesn't matter since Coleman has taken the "freak" thing to a different planet. Wait fifteen years and I gurantee you that Dorian's best shape will be average in the new breed of myostatin inhibited, juiced to the gills BB's. Marvel comics will have nothing on the Mr. O.
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What makes you think Haney wasn't maga dosing?
Haney is a good Christian. He would never do that.
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In his Olympia workout video, Haney said it wasnt about steroids, it was thanks to Weider MegaMultiVitamins - mega doses of MegaMultiVitamins
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No Dorian GH gut. Dorian would not have been 255-260 in 1992. He was barely 240 in 1991. He gained the mass because he learned the art of juicing better. He also trained heavy and strict. He ate a ton. Taken together, he got amazing in 1993, but he was not so in 1992. Haney was around 245-250 since early-mid 1980. GH was not as popular then. Also, the last time Dorian had a 30-32 inch waist was when he was 16. Doesn't matter since Coleman has taken the "freak" thing to a different planet. Wait fifteen years and I gurantee you that Dorian's best shape will be average in the new breed of myostatin inhibited, juiced to the gills BB's. Marvel comics will have nothing on the Mr. O.
apparently you know more than Dorian himself ::) Striaght out of his fucking mouth, he would have been in 93O size and condition at the 92O had he come in properly