Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Positive Bodybuilding Discussion & Talk => Natural Bodybuilding => Topic started by: HowieW on March 24, 2006, 05:51:18 PM
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I sincerely wish drug free bodybuilding would be the standard for our sport. Sadly, if we are honest it is light years behind the UN -tested NPC shows and IFBB pro events, why?
1. For UN- tested bodybuilders, the NPC is pretty much it and accounts for over 90% of all UN-tested shows.
Natural organizations are so numerous, that we lack any unity of central sanction. The natural bodybuilding pie ie being sliced up into several really small slices.Over the past few years, many of these same organizations offered pro classes. It sounded like a good idea but with the "pro" natural being such a haphazzard, whatever the organizer says it is, has watered down the value of "pro natural" as a viable tool for a natural bodybuilder to gain recognition.
We need unity, compromise and admit that we need one chief to lead our tribe.
Perhaps a vote?
2. Drug testing? The standards vary so much and are so inconsistant, it really hurts the repuation of the bodybuilding drug test. the polygraph has NO legal enforement as no physical evidence exists, and it is NOT allowed in a court of law, etc. Urine testing for some specific banned substances of the top guys and gals in the show is the only practical way to go and should the uniform standard.
Yes, the polygraph seems more convenient and enables a promoter to "test" everyone prior to the show, but easy, and quick is not the best thing in this and many other cases.
I know, that testing just the winners and top places seem unfair to those who place in the lower spots, but think about that idea. If the best in the shpw had to be drug free andsome Joe Blow is on something and gets 4th place, well DRUGS were not the main factor in winning the show. I mean c'mon, if the best guy is clean and blows away those that cheat a bit, then it proves the best in the show was built by good genetics and natural means.
Howard
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What's killing natural bodybuilding are all the little shits who think its "impossible" to reach a certain size or strength level without steroids.
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Natural Bodybuilding is alot like a McDonalds Diet...It just doesn't work!
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It is human nature to want a competitive advantage. This is why the use of drugs has spread to virtually every sport.
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Actually there are some good natural fed's that are getting better every year and are quite recognised. There's then INBF, the WNBF, over here in the UK there's the BNBF and the NPA.
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It is human nature to want a competitive advantage. This is why the use of drugs has spread to virtually every sport.
Yeah, but sooner or later a bunch of these guys are going to start dying and pro bodybuilding is going to get a closer look from politicians, law enforcement etc.. Then these pro's will talk like little birdies.
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HowieW,
I really enjoyed your post. So just a comment… The reason that “natural Bodybuilding” is not taking off is because 99 percent of men that work out with a desire for more and more muscle mass will just not get it naturally…
All the training and dieting will not assist most individuals to build muscle. Generally, extra-ordinary muscle development is very difficult if not impossible. Most individuals do not have the genetics to build good muscle tissue. Yes, there are a few genetically advantage individuals that grow no matter what, but they are far and few between. Hence, drugs. They work, they help, and they will assist a genetically disadvantage individual to overcome genetic disadvantages that he or she has.. And, they are relatively safe if used appropriately…
As “Johnny Apollo” stated “It just doesn't work!” for most!!
I guess it comes down to an individual’s preference. Women use steroid drugs for recreational sex (and most men do not complain), other drugs and medical techniques are used to enhance physical defects and aid physical perfection. Why not use medically developed drugs to aid sports and physical enhancement? An individual’s choice by the way.
Thanks for the opportunity to rant..
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2 guys I know go out and party every weekend by taking drugs and drinking heavily and are still making great gains on the juice. 1 of them has put on a lean 10 kilos in 3 months and he doesnt even train that hard. This is his first course that I know of.
How can you compare? Hes gained more in a couple of months than he would have training hard as a natty over a couple of years. Then again his organs will probably be fucked by all the crap hes taking with it.
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Yeah, but sooner or later a bunch of these guys are going to start dying and pro bodybuilding is going to get a closer look from politicians, law enforcement etc.. Then these pro's will talk like little birdies.
I am not speaking of just pro bodybuilding but almost EVERY professional sport. Bodybuilding has already had deaths, and near deaths, but nobody really gives a shit because it is not mainstream. What is likely to get the feds attention, is the increased use of gear among teenagers in mainstream sports.
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Natural bodybuilding is not as interesting as non tested bodybuilding... plain and simple.
I am natural myself, so not slamming nattys, but no one really wants to sit around and watch 190lb guys.
How many threads do you see on this board discussing the WNBF worlds compared to those discussing the Olympia? No one even wants to post about it, let alone go and watch it.
Majority of top level athletes in any sport use, those who do not believe this are naive. When we watch NFL, NBA, Olympics, Tour de France, Wimbeldon etc.. do you really think you are watching 'natural' athletes?
That being said, IMO natural female BB has a far greater promotability that non tested female BB.
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Exactly! People want to see a freak show, comic book characters that have come to life.
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the prerequisite u need to be 4% bodyfat. honestly i porefered in arnieds day u look lean as ghell without being peeled. also it wud look more impressive bigger competitors etc
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Nothing is killing natural bodybuilding.
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What is killing Natural Bodybuilding?
This...
(http://www.hirepgym.com/images/ronnie_coleman/ronnie-coleman-large.GIF)
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I would have to agree with Johnny on this. People just wanna see the freakness. Thats what they will pay to see.
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Damn Ronnie lol
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Natural bodybuilding is not as interesting as non tested bodybuilding... plain and simple.
I am natural myself, so not slamming nattys, but no one really wants to sit around and watch 190lb guys.
How many threads do you see on this board discussing the WNBF worlds compared to those discussing the Olympia? No one even wants to post about it, let alone go and watch it.
Majority of top level athletes in any sport use, those who do not believe this are naive. When we watch NFL, NBA, Olympics, Tour de France, Wimbeldon etc.. do you really think you are watching 'natural' athletes?
That being said, IMO natural female BB has a far greater promotability that non tested female BB.
I agree with this post. I, too, am a natural lifter, but I do understand that most do not want to see our us in competition.
CQ, stay natural.
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I agree with everyone that says it is the public that is affecting natural bodybuilding. People want to see the 300 lb monsters on stage.
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I agree with everyone that says it is the public that is affecting natural bodybuilding. People want to see the 300 lb monsters on stage.
You also have to remember that a lot of the better natural bodybuilders can hold their own at the open shows, especially in the smaller weight classes.
Marvin Ward has won his class at the Nationals, twice. And, he's the only bantamweight to win an overall title at the national level (2000 Team Universe).
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I would have to agree with Johnny on this. People just wanna see the freakness. Thats what they will pay to see.
Yes, but bodybuilding is backing itself into such a corner. The sport is contracting instead of growing. Until the mid 80's there were contests covered by the National TV networks. I don't think there are any casual bodybuilding fans. Even bicycle racing has fans who don't ride bikes. The only bodybuilding fans are guys who lift. An incredibly small segment of the population. I am not counting the muscle worshipping fags because they aren't real fans.
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What's killing natural bodybuilding are all the little shits who think its "impossible" to reach a certain size or strength level without steroids.
Right on, brianX
hahahahahahahahahahahah
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Yes, but bodybuilding is backing itself into such a corner. The sport is contracting instead of growing. Until the mid 80's there were contests covered by the National TV networks. I don't think there are any casual bodybuilding fans. Even bicycle racing has fans who don't ride bikes. The only bodybuilding fans are guys who lift. An incredibly small segment of the population. I am not counting the muscle worshipping fags because they aren't real fans.
Bodybuilding is not following the example set by its most famous son, Arnold Schwarzenegger. It is not reaching out to the public at large. In the name of being "hardcore", bodybuilding has slumped back into the corner. Remember American Muscle on ESPN? GONE!!! Remember Bodyshaping with Cory Everson on ESPN? GONE!!! Remember Totalee Fit with Lee Haney? No longer on ESPN (Haney still has a fitness show, but it comes on TBN and airs only in Georgia).
It's not a case of aesthetics-vs.-mass-monsters. I can remember reading my Muscle & Fitness magazines in high school. Someone would look at my magazine and see pics of guys like Lee Labrada and Shawn Ray (when he competed under 200 lbs). and do the usual "That's gross; he's too big" routine.
Our culture boasts more fat people than ever before. Even PE classes in public schools have gone south. I think as people have downplayed the importance of physical fitness, they have also shown even less interest in bodybuilding.
That may also be a reason why fitness shows are bowing to figure competitions.
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Bodybuilding is not following the example set by its most famous son, Arnold Schwarzenegger. It is not reaching out to the public at large. In the name of being "hardcore", bodybuilding has slumped back into the corner. Remember American Muscle on ESPN? GONE!!! Remember Bodyshaping with Cory Everson on ESPN? GONE!!! Remember Totalee Fit with Lee Haney? No longer on ESPN (Haney still has a fitness show, but it comes on TBN and airs only in Georgia).
When I worked nights I watched those shows every morning.
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I actually disagree that natural bodybuilding is dying. I really thing that there is one organization that is helping to grow natural bodybuilding/fitness and figure.
That organization is FAME! For the World Bodybuilding championships being held June 15th-18th In Toronto, Ontario, Canada we expect over 1000 athletes, and over 20,000 fitness enthusiasts in attendance.
We have over 50 shows in the states, and many internation shows as well. We are constantly adding shows each and every year.
FAME has rigerous drug screening tests to ensure that each athlete is clean of any banned substances, and that there is an even playing field.
If your interested in competing check out this link www.FAMEevent.com or www.wowFAME.com
if you want to compete or attend the world championships
Natural Bodybuilding is not dead my friends, it is alive and kicking! :)
Train Hard, Train Natural!
Trevor
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That may also be a reason why fitness shows are bowing to figure competitions.
I'm not sure I understand what this statement means. Are you saying that Figure is a bad thing?
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I took that statement to mean that Figure is less challenging that Fitness....so that is why it is gaining in popularity. I realize it is not 'politically correct' to say. ...but it is. Obviously the physique goal is identical in both, with the only difference being the inclusion of the routine skills. One arms pushups, all splits, straddle hold, pike holds, high kicks etc + just the ability to move at a very high pace while looking decent doing it for 2 minz - is a hell of a lot harder than making 4 turns on a stage. Not saying Figure is easy, cause it's not, but IMO as it less challenging than Fitness and far easier to prepare for,we will see Fitness going down...well we already are...
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I took that statement to mean that Figure is less challenging that Fitness....so that is why it is gaining in popularity. I realize it is not 'politically correct' to say. ...but it is. Obviously the physique goal is identical in both, with the only difference being the inclusion of the routine skills. One arms pushups, all splits, straddle hold, pike holds, high kicks etc + just the ability to move at a very high pace while looking decent doing it for 2 minz - is a hell of a lot harder than making 4 turns on a stage. Not saying Figure is easy, cause it's not, but IMO as it less challenging than Fitness and far easier to prepare for,we will see Fitness going down...well we already are...
People are placing more emphasis on a body's appearance and less on what it can actually do. The irony of it all is that fitness shows were supposed to spell the death of female bodybuilding. When people saw fitness competitions as virtually nothing but T&A, the women went ballistic, swearing that they were legitimate athletes.
That came to backfire on them, once the girls with heavy gymnastic backgrounds started to dominate. Later, someone came up with the Galaxy, which had an objective way to measure "fitness": an obstacle course. Of course, we saw more of the same. Many of the girls, who were more sinew than silicone, vaulted up the placings chart by way of their obstacle course time. Case in point: Raye "Zap" Hollitt competed in a Galaxy show. She didn't fare that well in the bikini round (still carried a lot of muscle from her bodybuilding/American Gladiator days). But, she smoked the obstacle course, which vaulted her to third place finish, overall.
The biggest problem was the fitness shows that had three rounds, with 25% of the score going to the evening gown round. The remaining 75% of the score cause the controversy. Some shows put 50% of the score in the bikini round and 25% in the fitness round; others did the exact opposite 50% fitness routine, 25% bikini round.
Those with great "pin-up girl" bodies (pretty faces, blonde hair, and freshly-purchased silicone mammaries) but modest athletic ability prospered in the former scenario. The ones with good-looking bodies, who could spin on their heads, launch themselves in the air, stick their feet in their mouths, and have them coming out their ears (while doing push-ups) dominated in the latter scenario.
Now, these ladies, by migrating to figure, are becoming the very thing people said all along. Granted, a number of the gymastic girls are heading to figure, too (their 30+ year-old bodies can't take the beatings, anymore). But, the desire to prove their athleticism has apparently disappeared. They'd rather just look the part; in essence, it's back to T&A.
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whats killing natural bodybuilding is that none of them are very impressive. or "awe inspiring" if you will.
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Natural bodybuilding is alive and kicking in Great Britain.Competitors and audience numbers are on the up.Check out www.npa-bodybuilding.co.uk for more information.
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What is killing Natural Bodybuilding?
This...
(http://www.hirepgym.com/images/ronnie_coleman/ronnie-coleman-large.GIF)
LOL>..thats Great! ;D
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Nothing is killing natural bodybuilding in my opinion. Some of the biggest shows in Colorado have been natural shows. At my first show we had 1200 in the audience (or so I was told). The competition was awesome. Sure the physiques were not the freaky sized guys but they were very good nonetheless. Largely the people who attended were friends and family, with a handful of hardcore BBers that don't miss a show. Is that really so bad?
Like all sports, there is a genetic component. I won't be a star center for the LA Lakers because I'm 5'9" and there is not a thing I can do about that. In the same way, naturally some folks simply cannot compete because there bodies don't enable them to put on serious mass. However, there are folks that have great genetics and can be great natural bodybuilders.
I have better than average genetics and I had to figure out over the last 2 years what made my body grow. Now I've found the formula that works for me and I'm packing on the muscle. The ole American work ethic is what I was in to. Lift like crazy (e.g. high volume). What I found that worked was a low volume high intensity program and the greatest anabolic weapon available to natural athletes - good clean food.
So, we will never be like the IFBB. So what. I have a place where I can go to do what I love to do. I've met a bunch of great guys and we have a real comraderie. I don't plan on making a living at this (although I have been in magazines - didn't make anything by the way). I'm a software guy who loves to bodybuild. I consider myself blessed that God has given me so many blessing including the ability to enjoy this sport.
Friends.. let's just have some fun with this. Let's not put limitations on ourselves. Let's find out what great nutrition and training can do. Let's take pride in knowing that we aren't risking long-term health with potentially dangerous drugs.
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I always figured, why not put an 1/8th of an inch on my arms...Ill eat well and train hard and a day or two after the workout it was there. I remember 15 1/2...15 5/8....15 3/4....etc. All th eway to over 20"....................It was small increments and i expected it from my body!!
Brianx is right, Your mind can work for you or against you...you decide. ;)
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Natural bbing is 'crap' to most people cos of roids.
For example if roids didnt exist , natural bber's would be awe inspiring to the avg joe.....go to a mall and take a look at the majority of the population , either skinny and frail or fatter than an elephant :)
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i can tell you what is not helping natural bodybuilding!!!
everytime someone post pics of themselves stating that they are natural and someone who can't, won't or will not put the feeort in to push their bodies jumps and accuse them of not being natural.
whenever i meet someone that say they are natural i have to believe them because since i was 18 people have been accusing me of steroid use i chose not to then, and my wife would leave me if i did now. not a tough choice at all!!
here are some pics of me and gregg val, ronnie and shawn. in the pic with ronnie i was 250, 3 weeks from mm atlantic 02
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^ Like someone said, it's a compliment.
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bigandbrolic stop hogging all the good genetics and give me sum! ;D
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i can tell you what is not helping natural bodybuilding!!!
everytime someone post pics of themselves stating that they are natural and someone who can't, won't or will not put the feeort in to push their bodies jumps and accuse them of not being natural.
whenever i meet someone that say they are natural i have to believe them because since i was 18 people have been accusing me of steroid use i chose not to then, and my wife would leave me if i did now. not a tough choice at all!!
here are some pics of me and gregg val, ronnie and shawn. in the pic with ronnie i was 250, 3 weeks from mm atlantic 02
You rock bro! It's cool to see natural guys pushing the boundaries. Keep up the great work and thanks for chiming in on the topic.
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i can tell you what is not helping natural bodybuilding!!!
everytime someone post pics of themselves stating that they are natural and someone who can't, won't or will not put the feeort in to push their bodies jumps and accuse them of not being natural.
Exactly right! The drug users are in the processe of shooting them selfs in the foot anyways, lol I mean look where it's at now ??? They dont even worry about defanition or propotion barley anymore it's just straight out size. And like Marolyn Manson, Eminem, or the WWE you can only raise the bar so far then u reach a limit, and that limit becomes normal or old news, it stops being a note worthy spectacle then the whole thing falls down like a house of cards. (the truth is that which remains the same)
At the end of the day though it's all you, and the ppl that are around you, and the example you set through who you are and wat u become! THAT is what is truly improtant no matter what you do!
Because as a serious wieght lifter and fighter, I have come to see every one is sleeping at the wheel. And if I can do somthing, to show that ppl's idea of what can be done and what serious focus and effort can do?
Then i dont care how much attention i get I've done my job! Lots of ppl have said I'm on roids too even when i was only 5'11 175lbs lol, but those are the same ppl looking for an excuse anyways, (seek and ye shall find) so i dont concern myself with them....
BTW: BigAnd Good Job u have a truly inspiering physique, and an inspiering attitude, well done!
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How can you kill something that's not alive???....
Natural Bodybuilding has lots going against it...cheaters, for one, without a proper method of testing for that fact.
Also, there aren't many shows to compete in. No central association, and with the emphasis on making dollars, you're never going to have a clean sport.
Sorry, dudes.
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For most people, natural bodybuilding is about challenging yourself to look the best you can. It's good for your health too.
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How can you kill something that's not alive???....
Natural Bodybuilding has lots going against it...cheaters, for one, without a proper method of testing for that fact.
Also, there aren't many shows to compete in. No central association, and with the emphasis on making dollars, you're never going to have a clean sport.
Sorry, dudes.
Things can change sorry dude but ur pessimism does not serve you
And lots of things die that are not living because they cease to exist?
When ppl eventually get sick of bloated body's the truth will return, it always does!
lies can last a long time but never forever ;)
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Things can change sorry dude but ur pessimism does not serve you
And lots of things die that are not living because they cease to exist?
When ppl eventually get sick of bloated body's the truth will return, it always does!
lies can last a long time but never forever ;)
...umm, return?...to where?...they were never there to begin with!...when natural bodybuilding was 'there' was over 45 years ago, and they weren't recognized then, nor are they now. Not at least as many who fantasize about the 'popularity' of natural bodybuilding. I've read some good posts on this thread, but for those who think pro bodybuilding is going to go away and the fans will start paying to see natural shows are delusional.
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"natural bodybuilding" ? sorry there's nothing really natural in bodybuilding!
-is it natural to eat 200grams of protein every day?
-is it natural to drink creatine?
-is it natural to hit till exhaustion the muscles of your body?
so I guess your main concern is some ergogenetic aids ;)
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gustavo baddell is totally natural..ask him and he'll tell you youtube.com (gustavo baddell)
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Legit natural bodybuilding , as a whole, NOT an individual, isn't gonna happen today.
real simple, the test are b.s.! that's the only thing that needs to be known. like another poster said, the poly is garbage...even by the FBI a 2 hour poly test often incriminates INNOCENT people (2 cases recent, 1 in florida accused a grandmother of kiiling grandduaghter and other inutah accused a dad of killing wife and kids) BOTH not true even after FBI test said differently.
Urine, unfortuanately doesn't work ESECIALLY if the promoting organization allows the use of pro hormones. Then ANY positive is questionable and you must changed the ratios.
If organization does not allow pro hormones then you have to deal with gh, insulin, clen, suspended test and fast acting drugs used throughout training....All this completely discredits organization and it's competitors even if they are truely natural for life or 5 years.
How to solve it = It can not happen! As long as drugs that get by screens are around "natural" competitors and organizations will always be suspect, especially if they are good. Unfortunate but true. basically, just be happy with your own physique and your own knowledge that you are truely natural, but if you think their can ever be a truely natural org your mistaken....even when I began competing in natural shows at 14 in 84 there were guys that used drugs and competed......the days were over probably around late 70's.
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BigandBrolic I know what you mean. I'm not going to chime in and say my genetics are superior but myself being 235 currently @12-13% BF. i'm 20 y.o. I'm going to compete in my first natty competition in May 07. I plan to compete 210-215. My goal years down the road will be 240+ @ 4% BF competition shape.
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[What is killing natural bodybuilding ]
Simple, no possible way to actually detect user and alot of people that simply do not care if they use and compete in natural shows. Therin lies the problem, you or i can and never truely know if the guy in front with the winning or losing physique is natural. At least in regular shows it is what it is and the best man wins, same with olympics. if anyone actually believes that it is "cheating" to compete at olympics while using your very naive....The playing field is LEVEL because EVERYONE uses and i got no problem with that. Wake up world.
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People like Legbreaker who cant believe the best of people. Yeh people will cheat but I do believe the majority of people competing in natural organisations are clean and the ones who are cheating it is usually because they dont have the genetic or the work ethic to make it on a level playing field so they try for an easy option and take on the naturals however they often get beat as the naturals at the top have great genetics, drive and determination(which cheats often dont have).
Legbreaker stick you pics on you claim to have a pro card is it a natural one? Who are you? Do you still compete as a natural are you one of the minority who would cheat to win a natural show?
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Vicky, the truth hurts naive people or makes them wake up. Of course there are legit natural people competing in shows, I never said there was not. However, in the bigger "natural orgs" there are many winners that are not. For you information, I competed AND won 4 natural shows at 15-16 years old in the NPO (ny, Peter Neff, anabel Lopez, etc)) which then went on to get involved in ANBC. As a 16-17 year old natural I won the NPC NY state teen class, years later I did use stuff for NPC shows then stopped at age 23. After 8 years with out hormone use I competed in muscle mania and even though I was by far the most shredded guy there i was way over dieted and didn't place well. I realized after speaking with some of the other contestants that did place and win, "natural" was a dream for that show. 2 years later and 10 years without hormones I decided to again compete and did in the NABF and won in NY at 223 about 1-2 weeks off a perfect condition. In 2002 i again decided to compete but at NPC and again won at 235 over dieted but in shape. 2003 I was 265 and flat an hour before nationals pre judge. that's it, Vicky, it is what it is. Good for your buddy, i could care less if he is or isn't natural and i did NOT accuse him of anything just made a very educated and knowledgeable observation. Move on, we have diferent opinions.
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Well done you! shame you couldnt have stayed Natural.
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People like Legbreaker who cant believe the best of people. Yeh people will cheat but I do believe the majority of people competing in natural organisations are clean and the ones who are cheating it is usually because they dont have the genetic or the work ethic to make it on a level playing field so they try for an easy option and take on the naturals however they often get beat as the naturals at the top have great genetics, drive and determination(which cheats often dont have).
Legbreaker stick you pics on you claim to have a pro card is it a natural one? Who are you? Do you still compete as a natural are you one of the minority who would cheat to win a natural show?
Empirics have shown that drugs are intertwined with sport and it not just the runners-up that use them. To believe that the improvement in size and condition of natural bb is because of improved nutrition and training techniques is a fallacy. The progression has the same trend as untested BB-ing. You can't apply this logic and correlation to an individual, it does mean that natural BB-ing is riddled with people that will pass the boundary, if even a little bit. Micro-dosages, GH, Slin, diuretics are all easy ways to avoid being caught.
It's the same as in virually every other sport around, and there's no easy way out. Extensive testing is expensive and not foolproof.
It's utterly wrong to say that cheats have little drive or determination, they probably have it even more! That's why they will go to such lenghts! Allmost all top athletes are obsessive, they live the sport! A small dab in the forbidden pool of juice is just a small step towards their greater goal. Sport and ethics are miles apart I know it's not what the Olympic comittee likes to see...
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I just think that it is not worth it to cheat in natural bodybuilding.What are you going to get out of it-a trophy and maybe a few supplements?.Even at pro level no-one makes a living out of natural bodybuilding competitions and the majority don't even cover their expenses.Even if you do manage to win it would always be a hollow victory which you could never look upon with pride as you would know that you had cheated.
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I just think that it is not worth it to cheat in natural bodybuilding.What are you going to get out of it-a trophy and maybe a few supplements?.Even at pro level no-one makes a living out of natural bodybuilding competitions and the majority don't even cover their expenses.Even if you do manage to win it would always be a hollow victory which you could never look upon with pride as you would know that you had cheated.
That's a whole different story, there's indeed not much to gain financially in natural BB. But people want to excell at something even if it's the local natural BB-show. Look how many gold/first places medals have been taken away from athletes after failing a drugs test. 'Fame' and 'your time in the lights' are incredible motivators. Look how much people are willing to do a show like Big Brother. While not an exact analogy it shows how much people are willing to get their face out there, one way or the other.
Besides there's the mindset of 'most of them are using, why would I give myself the disadvantage of not using'.
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Empirics have shown that drugs are intertwined with sport and it not just the runners-up that use them. To believe that the improvement in size and condition of natural bb is because of improved nutrition and training techniques is a fallacy. The progression has the same trend as untested BB-ing. You can't apply this logic and correlation to an individual, it does mean that natural BB-ing is riddled with people that will pass the boundary, if even a little bit. Micro-dosages, GH, Slin, diuretics are all easy ways to avoid being caught.
It's the same as in virually every other sport around, and there's no easy way out. Extensive testing is expensive and not foolproof.
It's utterly wrong to say that cheats have little drive or determination, they probably have it even more! That's why they will go to such lenghts! Allmost all top athletes are obsessive, they live the sport! A small dab in the forbidden pool of juice is just a small step towards their greater goal. Sport and ethics are miles apart I know it's not what the Olympic comittee likes to see...
100% accurate post.
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The FEDs don't care about drugs they just didn't want peeps compeating with them selling drugs ;)
Goggle the truth you'll see what I mean the CIA has been running the wold drug trade for decades and cash flow made from the drug trade is a major part of the US economies along with Oil and Guns
GOD = Gold Oil and Drugs
BTW they also let the Japanese hit Pearl harbour on perpose provoked the Japanese attack by cutting off their oil.
They also let 9/11 happen and 7/7 in Britain and many more attacks caused by the CIA and blamed on places they want to loot next.
Why??? before attack every one hates Bush and does not want a war, after attack they keep him in and want the war.
7/7 Same thing happened but with Tony Blair who wasnt going to get elected un till the bombing just before the election.