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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Royalty on July 02, 2016, 01:15:31 PM
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Do you Edomites feel that Box Squats are safe for the spine? I've heard some people say that the movement is totally safe. Some claim that it's very damaging to the spine.
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Done 500+ with no back problems.
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Wait..are edomites white or black?
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I dont like the idea of your glutes and low back relaxing when you sit on a bench with a heavy weight on your back
Its a lot of strain on the discs.
I dont want a fucking discussion with Coach on it either.
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I dont like the idea of your glutes and low back relaxing when you sit on a bench with a heavy weight on your back
Its a lot of strain on the discs.
I dont want a fucking discussion with Coach on it either.
To each his own. If I was a bber just lifting to look pretty, I wouldn't bother with them, but for athletes they are a useful tool.
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Seems to be the lift for athletes who like sitting on things
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Seems to be the lift for athletes who like sitting on things
Seated upright rows are making a come back!
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Edomites are the so called "Jewish" people. So called "White" people are Japhites.
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Edomites are the so called "Jewish" people. So called "White" people are Japhites.
Beat me to it.
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If you are looking to make your hips, thighs and lower back strong why would you sit on a bench doing squats? Just squat. Why make it easier? Why compress your spine from the top to the bottom? I swear powerlifters are always looking for the easiest route to lift heavier weight to feed their ego.
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If you are looking to make your hips, thighs and lower back strong why would you sit on a bench doing squats? Just squat. Why make it easier? Why compress your spine from the top to the bottom? I swear powerlifters are always looking for the easiest route to lift heavier weight to feed their ego.
Because the regular deep squats are too difficult. Like you said, LOTS of ego trainers out there.
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If you are looking to make your hips, thighs and lower back strong why would you sit on a bench doing squats? Just squat. Why make it easier? Why compress your spine from the top to the bottom? I swear powerlifters are always looking for the easiest route to lift heavier weight to feed their ego.
Because the regular deep squats are too difficult. Like you said, LOTS of ego trainers out there.
Obviously you've never been an athlete or trained for strength.
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Obviously you've never been an athlete or trained for strength.
Exactly.
They act like doing box squats replaces the regular squat, when it...........compliments the training.
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If you are looking to make your hips, thighs and lower back strong why would you sit on a bench doing squats? Just squat. Why make it easier? Why compress your spine from the top to the bottom? I swear powerlifters are always looking for the easiest route to lift heavier weight to feed their ego.
So you think box squatting three times your body weight is the easy way out? Powerlifters don't box squat in competition.
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Do you Edomites feel that Box Squats are safe for the spine? I've heard some people say that the movement is totally safe. Some claim that it's very damaging to the spine.
I've mostly heard that they are not safe. I still do them because it insures I go deep enough.
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I dont like the idea of your glutes and low back relaxing when you sit on a bench with a heavy weight on your back
Its a lot of strain on the discs.
I dont want a fucking discussion with Coach on it either.
I don't believe you are supposed to actually sit. I just barely touch the bench or stool so I know I achieved a full squat.
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So you think box squatting three times your body weight is the easy way out? Powerlifters don't box squat in competition.
Box squatting is not beneficial for power lifters. There is no reason they should do them. Too much resistance and you are bound to wreck your spine.
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I've mostly heard that they are not safe. I still do them because it insures I go deep enough.
Where did you hear that?
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I don't believe you are supposed to actually sit. I just barely touch the bench or stool so I know I achieved a full squat.
That's not a box squat. All you're is a touch and go that measures the depth of of your regular squat. A true box squat is when you actually sit, pelvic tilt then complete the movement.
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Box squatting is not beneficial for power lifters. There is no reason they should do them.
Then I guess Louie Simmons has been doing it all wrong.
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Box squats are worthless for everyone.
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Box squats are worthless for everyone.
Why
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Why
Because they don't produce results. If you can't do ATG Squats, then don't waste your time.
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but why olympic weightlifters who are the best squatters never do box squat?
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Because they don't produce results. If you can't do ATG Squats, then don't waste your time.
What kind of results are we talking about here?
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but why olympic weightlifters who are the best squatters never do box squat?
Olympic lifting is a sport in itself. It's not powerlifting.
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What kind of results are we talking about here?
Both strength and mass.
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Both strength and mass.
I see. So again, Louie Simmons has it wrong? In let's a field sport...we'll say football (or pick a sport) but for the sake of arguement we'll use football. Do you think speed, explosiveness, vert, standing broad jumps, plyos, etc is all quad?
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I see. So again, Louie Simmons has it wrong? In let's a field sport...we'll say football (or pick a sport) but for the sake of arguement we'll use football. Do you think speed, explosiveness, vert, standing broad jumps, plyos, etc is all quad?
[/quote
So you want to look like Louie Simmons? OK dude, my misunderstanding.
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I see. So again, Louie Simmons has it wrong? In let's a field sport...we'll say football (or pick a sport) but for the sake of arguement we'll use football. Do you think speed, explosiveness, vert, standing broad jumps, plyos, etc is all quad?
[/quote
So you want to look like Louie Simmons? OK dude, my misunderstanding.
You didn't answer my question. You said strength and mass. POWERlifting isn't strength. It's not the same.
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You didn't answer my question. You said strength and mass. POWERlifting isn't strength. It's not the same.
I did answer the question. You just didn't like the answer.
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I did answer the question. You just didn't like the answer.
You're talking about aesthetics, I'm taking about powerlifting and athletics. Now if I were regular squats for aesthetics then I would agree with you but saying box squats are totally useless is a bit naive.
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I did answer the question. You just didn't like the answer.
You didn't answer my question. You said strength and mass. POWERlifting isn't strength. It's not the same.
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You're talking about aesthetics, I'm taking about powerlifting and athletics. Now if I were regular squats for aesthetics then I would agree with you but saying box squats are totally useless is a bit naive.
No, I'm right, box squats are worthless. Otherwise give an example of what they are good for.
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No, I'm right, box squats are worthless. Otherwise give an example of what they are good for.
How many paragraphs or just examples would you like?
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How many paragraphs would you like?
Just one sentence will do! Obviously you have a situation, where if you can't baffle them with brilliance, then you'll bury them with bull shit!
Spell it out in a few words, or take a hike.
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Edomites are the so called "Jewish" people. So called "White" people are Japhites.
And Shittites are the so-called "Original Hebroes". HTH. ::)
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Just one sentence will do! Obviously you have a situation, where if you can't baffle them with brilliance, then you'll bury them with bull shit!
Spell it out in a few words, or take a hike.
Oh no, you first. You obviously seem know. I mean, if you're going to be bitter about It wouldnt want Josh to read that I have an answer that I know and have him write a Yelp review...Lol. So....you first.
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Oh no, you first. You obviously seem know. I mean, if you're going to be bitter about It wouldnt want Josh to read that I have an answer that I know and have him write a Yelp review...Lol. So....you first.
I already said it was worthless. Pay attention here.
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I already said it was worthless. Pay attention here.
Done here. If you can't explain it then you don't know. I get it.
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Done here. If you can't explain it then you don't know. I get it.
It's scientifically impossible to prove a negative. If you can't prove that it works perfectly every time, then it's not science.
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Box squats popularity came, peaked and vanished with Louie Simmons. They so effectively complimented the geared/suited squat groove. Once that style fell out of favor and the conjugate hype train died down pretty much every elite level lifter has since dropped them. There are much better squat variations and ways to strengthen the posterior chain that don't need the degree of coaching that box squats do.
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That's not a box squat. All you're is a touch and go that measures the depth of of your regular squat. A true box squat is when you actually sit, pelvic tilt then complete the movement.
and as a rational sensible man you cant see where that might be dangerous for your lower spinal discs
All that weight pressing down on the discs with almost zero muscular support from the hips and low back????
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Just one sentence will do! Obviously you have a situation, where if you can't baffle them with brilliance, then you'll bury them with bull shit!
Spell it out in a few words, or take a hike.
In let's a field sport...we'll say football (or pick a sport) but for the sake of arguement we'll use football. Do you think speed, explosiveness, vert, standing broad jumps, plyos, etc is all quad?
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Obviously you've never been an athlete or trained for strength.
Ohhh... you're so hardcore I can't stand it !
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Exactly.
They act like doing box squats replaces the regular squat, when it...........compliments the training.
How exactly?
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Back in the 80's heyday, the very idea of squatting onto a bench was ridiculed and numerous muscle-mag "studies" purported to show the spinal compression that came from it (despite never explaining how upward pressure from the femur socket was different tban the pressure from a static platform) was debilitating.
So most of us got the idea that box squats were bad from the same place that gave us Weider principles, eating 8 times a day and drinking a gallon of milk a day.
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Back in the 80's heyday, the very idea of squatting onto a bench was ridiculed and numerous muscle-mag "studies" purported to show the spinal compression that came from it (despite never explaining how upward pressure from the femur socket was different tban the pressure from a static platform) was debilitating.
So most of us got the idea that box squats were bad from the same place that gave us Weider principles, eating 8 times a day and drinking a gallon of milk a day.
I'm not saying that it causes injuries (although I cannot see how relaxing while a tremendous load on your back is a good thing), but no one has ever explained to me what the benefit is? I would think the key to improving/increasing your squats, are normal squats, all the way down.
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I'm not saying that it causes injuries (although I cannot see how relaxing while a tremendous load on your back is a good thing), but no one has ever explained to me what the benefit is? I would think the key to improving/increasing your squats, are normal squats, all the way down.
Coach can do it better, but I think it teaches/helps your hips/butt to be able to fire out of the bottom position of a squat, and strengthens the entire posterior chain.
All I know is that I've added them over the last years, using a cambered squat bar after shoulder surgery, and that I saw a definite increase in my speed, jump, and deadlift.
I don't fully relax my back at all, in fact I feel zero discomfort there. I just settle on the box and fire back up.
http://westside-barbell.com/box-squatting-benefits/
Plus, with anyone who exercises over long periods of time, it's good to try new stuff to prevent boredom and learn.
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I'm not saying that it causes injuries (although I cannot see how relaxing while a tremendous load on your back is a good thing), but no one has ever explained to me what the benefit is? I would think the key to improving/increasing your squats, are normal squats, all the way down.
I am sure that others that know more will chime in, but I always thought that it was about programming the "back and down" motion over the high-bar "drop in the hole" motion.
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Coach can do it better, but I think it teaches/helps your hips/butt to be able to fire out of the bottom position of a squat, and strengthens the entire posterior chain.
All I know is that I've added them over the last years, using a cambered squat bar after shoulder surgery, and that I saw a definite increase in my speed, jump, and deadlift.
I don't fully relax my back at all, in fact I feel zero discomfort there. I just settle on the box and fire back up.
http://westside-barbell.com/box-squatting-benefits/
Plus, with anyone who exercises over long periods of time, it's good to try new stuff to prevent boredom and learn.
then you are not doing them properly as per coaches instructions.
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then you are not doing them properly as per coaches instructions.
??
Fill your abdomen with air, and push out against your belt. Push your knees out as far as possible to the sides and with a tightly arched back, squat back, not down, until you completely sit on the box. Every muscle is kept tight while on the box with the exception of the hip flexors. By releasing and then contracting the hip flexors and arching the upper back, you will jump off the box, building tremendous starting strength.
I don't wear a belt though.
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??
I don't wear a belt though.
look, as soon as that box takes any weight from you your muscles relax, there wouldn't be any point sitting on it if it didn't, thats the whole point of sitting down in the first place.
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look, as soon as that box takes any weight from you your muscles relax, there wouldn't be any point sitting on it if it didn't, thats the whole point of sitting down in the first place.
Certain muscles relax. Not the back, as I stated I didn't, and the quote supports.
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Ohhh... you're so hardcore I can't stand it !
???
Gayest response ever from Mr Analballick
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look, as soon as that box takes any weight from you your muscles relax, there wouldn't be any point sitting on it if it didn't, thats the whole point of sitting down in the first place.
So? As soon as the db's touch your chest muscles relax, as soon as you stand up in a squat muscles relax, as soon as you curl to the top muscles relax...what's your point?
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So? As soon as the db's touch your chest muscles relax, as soon as you stand up in a squat muscles relax, as soon as you curl to the top muscles relax...what's your point?
LOL
Thats brutal. His own logic used against him.
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I'm not saying that it causes injuries (although I cannot see how relaxing while a tremendous load on your back is a good thing), but no one has ever explained to me what the benefit is? I would think the key to improving/increasing your squats, are normal squats, all the way down.
Oh shit! No homo of course.
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So? As soon as the db's touch your chest muscles relax, as soon as you stand up in a squat muscles relax, as soon as you curl to the top muscles relax...what's your point?
Really, mine dont, if your muscles were not flexed and tight when you stood up in a squat you would fold under the weight.
Any time I use dumbells the tension never comes off the muscle.
We are talking a very specific area of the low back with box squats, L4 L5, go and see how many back injuries involve those discs.
that area is under huge compression once you sit down
Any way , fuck it you carry on doing them,
"Light weight baby"
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Really, mine dont, if your muscles were not flexed and tight when you stood up in a squat you would fold under the weight.
Any time I use dumbells the tension never comes off the muscle.
We are talking a very specific area of the low back with box squats, L4 L5, go and see how many back injuries involve those discs.
that area is under huge compression once you sit down
Any way , fuck it you carry on doing them,
"Light weight baby"
Obviously you've never squatted.
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Obviously you've never squatted.
I used to years ago when I was young and foolish and believed you had to to develop good legs.
Im much more aware of whats required now, some people are stuck in the dark ages.
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Box squats suck, there are better ways to teach the squat and better ways to develop the posterior chain. The only guys who still cling to these b-rated variations are Westside barbell wannabes.
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I used to years ago when I was young and foolish and believed you had to to develop good legs.
Im much more aware of whats required now, some people are stuck in the dark ages.
Yes, I'm sure your leg presses are working wonders for your knees, hips and low back. ;)
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???
Gayest response ever from Mr Analballick
Never did a single box squat, yet I've squatted 525 for reps at 180lbs, 405 for 15, 315 for 25 and 225 for 55 reps. Natty too.
So gay, isn't it?
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Yes, I'm sure your leg presses are working wonders for your knees, hips and low back. ;)
I only use around 90k so yes, they are doing fine thanks,
I use a push away leg press machine, absolutely zero stress on the low back and hips.
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Never did a single box squat, yet I've squatted 525 for reps at 180lbs, 405 for 15, 315 for 25 and 225 for 55 reps. Natty too.
So gay, isn't it?
Yes
I only use around 90k so yes, they are doing fine thanks,
I use a push away leg press machine, absolutely zero stress on the low back and hips.
Of course, because you push that weight completely unsupported. ::)
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then you are not doing them properly as per coaches instructions.
Really? How so?
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and as a rational sensible man you cant see where that might be dangerous for your lower spinal discs
All that weight pressing down on the discs with almost zero muscular support from the hips and low back????
Not in the least. As long your core is kept tight, especially in the sitting position the risks are low, lower than regular squats.
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Never did a single box squat, yet I've squatted 525 for reps at 180lbs, 405 for 15, 315 for 25 and 225 for 55 reps. Natty too.
So gay, isn't it?
We've got a world record holder here!!! :o
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Of course, because you push that weight completely unsupported. ::)
my low back is fully supported by the machine.
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Not in the least. As long your core is kept tight, especially in the sitting position the risks are low, lower than regular squats.
sitting down and standing up again is like yanking at a heavy weight, sooner or later you will tear something.
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my low back is fully supported by the machine.
You're so convinced that you're right, you wouldn't admit it if it wasn't. Theres risks with every movement in weightlifting, all about how it feels and works with your body. I do box squats, no pains, no stress in my back, if they scare you, don't do them. Pretty simple.
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Chaos, what is your primary hamstring movement?
Do you work your hamstrings before or after your Box Squats? Thanks
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You're so convinced that you're right, you wouldn't admit it if it wasn't. Theres risks with every movement in weightlifting, all about how it feels and works with your body. I do box squats, no pains, no stress in my back, if they scare you, don't do them. Pretty simple.
I want to be able to walk unaided when Im 70, so yes, I will avoid any exercise that unduly stresses my body, same with heavy wights, I avoid those also.
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I want to be able to walk unaided when Im 70, so yes, I will avoid any exercise that unduly stresses my body, same with heavy wights, I avoid those also.
I wonder what ruined Ronnie; the 800Lb squats or the 800LB deadlifts or the 2000Lb Leg Presses
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I wonder what ruined Ronnie; the 800Lb squats or the 800LB deadlifts or the 2000Lb Leg Presses
All that along with the IQ of a short school bus/dark windows mind and his heavy drug use are what did that idiot in.
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I wonder what ruined Ronnie; the 800Lb squats or the 800LB deadlifts or the 2000Lb Leg Presses
Surely had nothing to do with the grams upon grams of chemicals pounded into his body for decades. ::)
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Surely had nothing to do with the grams upon grams of chemicals pounded into his body for decades. ::)
Well, Yates & Cutler & Ruhl are still able to walk properly.... so I'm sure that it wasn't just the drugs
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Chaos, did you see my question for you? Page 3, third post from the bottom of the page.
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Chaos, what is your primary hamstring movement?
Do you work your hamstrings before or after your Box Squats? Thanks
SLDL
Always do squatting movements first. I box squat maybe once every 4-6 weeks maybe. I actually prefer pause squats over box squats.
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I recall dong box squats many, many years ago. I never got hurt from them but I never liked them all that much. I preferred the "high rep death march" squats. ;D Squatting transformed me more than any other exercise and my friends that were powerlifters were correct in that I think it truly is the king of exercises.
At first I hated the squat but the results changed my attitude and leg day became my absolute favorite. ;D
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SLDL
Always do squatting movements first. I box squat maybe once every 4-6 weeks maybe. I actually prefer pause squats over box squats.
Ok thanks
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Ok thanks
What is your primary hamstring movement?
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What is your primary hamstring movement?
Glute Ham Raises
And SLDL with the trap bar.
I was doing goodmornings... I have to start doing them again
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Glute Ham Raises
And SLDL with the trap bar.
I was doing goodmornings... I have to start doing them again
Sorry. The answer is squats. You are not going deep enough. I hate them, too. And it takes about a 10-minute shower.
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Sorry. The answer is squats. You are not going deep enough. I hate them, too. And it takes about a 10-minute shower.
I do squats too.
But the movements above are done specifically for leg biceps (and some lower back)
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I do squats too.
But the movements above are done specifically for leg biceps (and some lower back)
Leg biceps!? ;D
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Poliquin is not a fan of box squats
https://www.t-nation.com/training/question-of-strength-48
T Nation: Is there a lift you'd never have an athlete do?
One lift I don't like very much for athletes is the box squat. I never prescribe it
For one thing, there are a lot of better, less injurious alternatives. Many lifters, when they get fatigued or they lose concentration, will bounce off the box and get fractures in their sacral vertebrae. I may have 70 different tools that work and are safe, and one that may be potentially unsafe. Which one do I pick when working with highly paid athletes that I must get strong in only 11 weeks?
If you do use the box squat for powerlifting applications, remember that it requires very good coaching and someone there to make sure you stay on the ball. I wouldn't prescribe the box squat to an athlete training alone. With a full squat, on the other hand, you don't see those injuries.
Also, outside of powerlifting, the mechanics of box squatting are not found in sport. I don't know of any sport where the shins don't travel forward for propulsion.
Now, you can use box squats sparingly in your training if you're a bodybuilder. They'll certainly hypertrophy the glutes and thighs. But bodybuilding isn't an athletic endeavor.
https://www.t-nation.com/training/question-of-strength-35
Box Squats for Athletes and Bodybuilders?
Q: What do you think of having athletes do box squats? What about bodybuilders?
A: I never use them. With athletes, you want the most bang for your buck, the highest return, because you only have eleven weeks on average to train them during their off-season. So the choice of exercises becomes really important.
The problem I have with box squats is that their application is limited to powerlifting. The reason being is the goal of powerlifting is to lift the highest amount of weight for the shortest amount of distance within the rules. Essentially in the box squat, your shins don't travel forward. Now I don't know of any sport where the shins don't travel forward for propulsion. So the mechanics of the box squat aren't found in sport.
Do you think all the Westside people are up in arms yet and have me on their hit list? But it's the Bruce Lee principle again: use what is useful and reject what is not. Box squats are the only thing in the Westside system I don't agree with. They only have applications for powerlifting.
Also, any sort of restricted movement pattern tends to change soft tissue integrity. One thing you'll find with people who do a lot of box squats is that they're abnormally tight in the piriformis muscle, for example. In sports where you have to change direction a lot, the box squat will actually decrease your power because you won't be able to use those muscles efficiently.
Finally, most of the athletes I have are highly paid. There's a risk when doing box squats of the athlete bouncing on the box due to lack of concentration. The trauma that can result on the sacral vertebraes could be tremendous. There are just better alternatives. If you're a powerlifter, they're great. If you're any other type of athlete, stay away from the box squat.
Now, as far as bodybuilding is concerned, you can inject box squats sparingly into the training process. They will hypertrophy the thighs and glutes. But bodybuilding isn't an athletic endeavor. Most bodybuilders can't walk and chew gum at the same time. They're not known for coordination!
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Not to hijack this thread dedicated to Edomites, but what is the exercise of choice for us Japhites? Thanks in advance.
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Not to hijack this thread dedicated to Edomites, but what is the exercise of choice for us Japhites? Thanks in advance.
Plain old squats will benefit anyone regardless of skin color, or in the case of Shittites, a low IQ and even lower self esteem.
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Wait..are edomites white or black?
I mix up Japhites , Vegemites, Marmites and Edomites on a regular basis as well.
I think the Edomites are white according to Wiggipedia.
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Wiggs told me i was a Japhite, so i really can't relate.
I had to google to know what box squats is. I do Tom Platz style squats minus his poundages and insane intensity. Just God'ol ass to grass barefoot.
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The original box squat had the lifter actually lift his feet off the ground when performing the lift.
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I want to be able to walk unaided when Im 70, so yes, I will avoid any exercise that unduly stresses my body, same with heavy wights, I avoid those also.
Explains why I never lifted all that heavy, just enough for a little bit of a challenge. Being almost 72, I can tell you that this approach pays off in the long run. I've been lifting for 56 years with no injuries.
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Explains why I never lifted all that heavy, just enough for a little bit of a challenge. Being almost 72, I can tell you that this approach pays off in the long run. I've been lifting for 56 years with no injuries.
And no gains.
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And no gains.
If you say so. ::)
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If you say so. ::)
I did ::)
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Explains why I never lifted all that heavy, just enough for a little bit of a challenge. Being almost 72, I can tell you that this approach pays off in the long run. I've been lifting for 56 years with no injuries.
I am impressed that you still squat at 70 plus
(http://az1.faceinhole.com/creations/16/7/6/8c2357e075161513154.jpg)
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I am impressed that you still squat at 70 plus
(http://az1.faceinhole.com/creations/16/7/6/8c2357e075161513154.jpg)
Thanks for finding that photo of me squatting. In truth, the I beam was made from balsa wood.
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Poliquin is not a fan of box squats
https://www.t-nation.com/training/question-of-strength-48
https://www.t-nation.com/training/question-of-strength-35
Not sure what you're getting at here but it is what it is.