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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: chuckles on February 14, 2018, 04:24:05 AM

Title: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: chuckles on February 14, 2018, 04:24:05 AM
The Master explains.
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: sceagacros on February 14, 2018, 04:36:15 AM
Good find, a beast back in his day Mark was......
(https://www.t-nation.com/system/publishing/article_assets/1414/original/Rippetoe-Heavy-Deadlift.jpg?ts=1421271599 ;D)
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: illuminati on February 14, 2018, 05:30:37 AM
The Master explains.


Hmmm He knows his anatomy & biomechanics
A lot of talking for very little relevant information
He could of easily condensed that into a few minutes max

Lesson No.1 how to bore your students.
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: chuckles on February 14, 2018, 05:53:43 AM
Hmmm He knows his anatomy & biomechanics
A lot of talking for very little relevant information
He could of easily condensed that into a few minutes max

Lesson No.1 how to bore your students.
True but is he correct also if you earn a living from it you got to juice it up...no pun intended..
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: chess315 on February 14, 2018, 07:42:21 AM
I'm beginning to think deadlifts build a better lower body then squats for most, it's not really your quads that matter as much as your butt hamstrings plus deadlifts thicken your upper back traditional deadlifts Trump squats for the average person
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: sceagacros on February 14, 2018, 07:58:10 AM
I can drive my deadlift up with squats only, at least for a while - but the reverse is not true (for me).

As for aesthetics? In my opinion using Romanian dead-lifts and front squats for the main hip hinge and knee extension movements produce the most mass on the lower body while still creating strength ultimately transferable to the powerlifts when one switches back.
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: Griffith on February 14, 2018, 08:22:58 AM
I'm beginning to think deadlifts build a better lower body then squats for most, it's not really your quads that matter as much as your butt hamstrings plus deadlifts thicken your upper back traditional deadlifts Trump squats for the average person

Agreed.

Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: chuckles on February 14, 2018, 08:24:02 AM
I'm beginning to think deadlifts build a better lower body then squats for most, it's not really your quads that matter as much as your butt hamstrings plus deadlifts thicken your upper back traditional deadlifts Trump squats for the average person
I disagree. Squats train Quads,Hamstrings, depending how you do them. This is the key. You need to find a good powerlifter to show you. Not a fitness trainer clown.
I can drive my deadlift up with squats only, at least for a while - but the reverse is not true (for me).

As for aesthetics? In my opinion using Romanian dead-lifts and front squats for the main hip hinge and knee extension movements produce the most mass on the lower body while still creating strength ultimately transferable to the powerlifts when one switches back.
good post but back squat will always win..
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: Thin Lizzy on February 14, 2018, 09:01:46 AM
I disagree. Squats train Quads,Hamstrings, depending how you do them. This is the key. You need to find a good powerlifter to show you. Not a fitness trainer clown.  good post but back squat will always win..

This hamstrings play a small role at the bottom of squats when the pelvis tilts anteriorly. That creates a stretch reflex response at the “Proximal” end, causing the hams to contract, but it’s not an active contraction. The lion’s share of the work is being done by the glutes and the quads. The former pulls the femur back down and pushes the pelvis forward and up. The latter pushes the femur down and back and the tibia up and back.

An exercise that he left out that would get the hamstrings into the shortest possible position is sprinting.

Good find, btw.
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: be back on February 14, 2018, 09:04:07 AM
we sit down, we stand up again...
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: chuckles on February 14, 2018, 09:18:25 AM
we sit down, we stand up again...
well that is why the Squat is so important.
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: be back on February 14, 2018, 09:19:59 AM
well that is why the Squat is so important.
my grandad managed to sit down and stand up for 87 years, he never put a barbell on his back.
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: chuckles on February 14, 2018, 09:23:55 AM
my grandad managed to sit down and stand up for 87 years, he never put a barbell on his back.
Thank you for your intelligent, relevant input.
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: chuckles on February 14, 2018, 09:28:00 AM
This hamstrings play a small role at the bottom of squats when the pelvis tilts anteriorly. That creates a stretch reflex response at the “Proximal” end, causing the hams to contract, but it’s not an active contraction. The lion’s share of the work is being done by the glutes and the quads. The former pulls the femur back down and pushes the pelvis forward and up. The latter pushes the femur down and back and the tibia up and back.

An exercise that he left out that would get the hamstrings into the shortest possible position is sprinting.

Good find, btw.
The lower i go the more Hamstrings are trained. you can't isolate any muscle so all muscles work together..so the squat is more complicated as you think. Leg press foot position is also good.
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: be back on February 14, 2018, 09:29:21 AM
Thank you for your intelligent, relevant input.

thank you for another bullshit gimmick thread...
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: chuckles on February 14, 2018, 09:31:43 AM
thank you for another bullshit gimmick thread...
you will never reach your true potential.
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: DroppingPlates on February 14, 2018, 10:24:53 AM
you will never reach your true potential.

Quite ironic to hear those words from you Donny
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: ratherbebig on February 14, 2018, 10:39:50 AM
does he talk about how shitty the hamstrings are to people squatting? how they only got 50% leg development?
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: Coach is Back! on February 14, 2018, 11:23:02 AM
This hamstrings play a small role at the bottom of squats when the pelvis tilts anteriorly. That creates a stretch reflex response at the “Proximal” end, causing the hams to contract, but it’s not an active contraction. The lion’s share of the work is being done by the glutes and the quads. The former pulls the femur back down and pushes the pelvis forward and up. The latter pushes the femur down and back and the tibia up and back.

An exercise that he left out that would get the hamstrings into the shortest possible position is sprinting.

Good find, btw.

There is one thing that Rippetoe left out (actually several because I don't agree with most of his analogies when it comes to squatting) and that's base (foot stance). I'm assuming he's not mentioning it because he uses more of traditional stance. That being said, that tends to make people more quad dominant because you're not recruiting the hamstings nearly as much as if you were going a wider stance. Wider stance (wider than shoulder width) will infact recruit much more of the entire posterior chain than the more traditional squat.

If we get into the knee pain debate, IMO, it's because of weak hamstrings (quad dominance) since the hamstrings are a flexor to the knee. When it comes to the stretch-short cycle (we train the shit of it) again, IMO, can be seen in two ways and regardless of which ways, you're still utilizing stored elastic energy.

1. In a squat, using submaximal weights (55-70%) with a 3-0-1 tempo or adding bands at less percentage using a 2-0-1 tempo

2. Plyo's would be just one of the best examples of SSC utilizing stored elastic energy. But there's many forms of plyometrics, not just box jumps

As seen here..

https://instagram.com/p/Bb2TF3lBQJW/
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: chess315 on February 14, 2018, 12:10:35 PM
Good hamstrings ,glutes Trump good quads the deadlift is superior for your average lifter not to mention the back thickness I'mbonly talking conventional deadlifts not sumo
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: chess315 on February 14, 2018, 12:13:35 PM
Squats is better than deadlifts is totally bro science
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: Thin Lizzy on February 14, 2018, 12:20:30 PM
does he talk about how shitty the hamstrings are to people squatting? how they only got 50% leg development?

The hamstrings role in hip extension is more that of a stabilizer muscle than a primary mover. That’s why you don’t see big hams among people who only do squats for legs.



Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: oldtimer1 on February 14, 2018, 12:22:28 PM
No one talks about the glute muscle. It's the muscle that draws the femur backwards. It incredibly important to sprinting and jumping. Of course no muscle works in isolation but there is too much talk of the quad in sport when it's the glute that's doing the lion's share in my many athletics from kinesiology evaluation.
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: be back on February 14, 2018, 12:23:56 PM
No one talks about the glute muscle. It's the muscle that draws the femur backwards. It incredibly important to sprinting and jumping. Of course no muscle works in isolation but there is too much talk of the quad in sport when it's the glute that's doing the lion's share in my many athletics from kinesiology evaluation.

hahaha, its all everyone talks about on this forum....
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: Coach is Back! on February 14, 2018, 12:28:16 PM
No one talks about the glute muscle. It's the muscle that draws the femur backwards. It incredibly important to sprinting and jumping. Of course no muscle works in isolation but there is too much talk of the quad in sport when it's the glute that's doing the lion's share in my many athletics from kinesiology evaluation.

I usually don’t mention it specifically because I’m usually speaking of the posterior chain as a whole. I swear by the GHR. If you want to jump high and increase explosiveness, that’s it.
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: DroppingPlates on February 14, 2018, 12:35:48 PM
hahaha, its all everyone talks about on this forum....

"Glutes are the new abs"
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: chess315 on February 14, 2018, 12:45:12 PM
No one talks about the glute muscle. It's the muscle that draws the femur backwards. It incredibly important to sprinting and jumping. Of course no muscle works in isolation but there is too much talk of the quad in sport when it's the glute that's doing the lion's share in my many athletics from kinesiology evaluation.
yes if your trying to pick up whores having a nice ass goes far and hamstrings
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: ratherbebig on February 14, 2018, 12:59:46 PM
The hamstrings role in hip extension is more that of a stabilizer muscle than a primary mover. That’s why you don’t see big hams among people who only do squats for legs.





yes but people keep talking about squats when theyre talking about leg development which isnt telling the whole story
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: ratherbebig on February 14, 2018, 01:01:26 PM
No one talks about the glute muscle. It's the muscle that draws the femur backwards. It incredibly important to sprinting and jumping. Of course no muscle works in isolation but there is too much talk of the quad in sport when it's the glute that's doing the lion's share in my many athletics from kinesiology evaluation.

yes the big asses of sprinters and fighters like tyron woodley cannot be underestimated

(https://cdn.sportsmemorabilia.com/sports-product-image/tyron-woodley-ultimate-fighting-championship-autographed-8-x-10-ufc-201-knockout-celebration-photograph8-t6456965-2000.jpg)

Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: illuminati on February 14, 2018, 01:17:20 PM
I'm beginning to think deadlifts build a better lower body then squats for most, it's not really your quads that matter as much as your butt hamstrings plus deadlifts thicken your upper back traditional deadlifts Trump squats for the average person

Hmmm - Deadlifts are a very good overall mass / strength builder

I don’t think they are better overall lower body building exercise than various
Forms of squatting- look at Olympic weightlifters they spend a lot of time squatting
Fronts & backs also cleans & power cleans not so much just deadlifting
And they generally have great lower body development & overall power / strength.
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: ProudVirgin69 on February 14, 2018, 02:48:54 PM
The hamstrings role in hip extension is more that of a stabilizer muscle than a primary mover. That’s why you don’t see big hams among people who only do squats for legs.


Hip extension is the main function of the hamstrings!  Yeah sure, they flex the knee too but that's only one head of the muscle.

A stiff legged deadlift or good morning is essentially pure hip extension, and those exercises target the glutes & hamstrings.  Minimal quad involvement.  Do you disagree with this?
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: chess315 on February 14, 2018, 02:57:01 PM
Hip extension is the main function of the hamstrings!  Yeah sure, they flex the knee too but that's only one head of the muscle.

A stiff legged deadlift or good morning is essentially pure hip extension, and those exercises target the glutes & hamstrings.  Minimal quad involvement.  Do you disagree with this?
traditional deadlifts do well also plus work the upper back and quads to I agree with you though all these are better than leg curls
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: chess315 on February 14, 2018, 02:59:31 PM
Yes if having a strong ass is more important than anything. In fighting, football, hitting and throwing. Leg curls ready don't do shit or very little pretty much a waste of time
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: Thin Lizzy on February 14, 2018, 03:17:01 PM
Hip extension is the main function of the hamstrings!  Yeah sure, they flex the knee too but that's only one head of the muscle.

A stiff legged deadlift or good morning is essentially pure hip extension, and those exercises target the glutes & hamstrings.  Minimal quad involvement.  Do you disagree with this?

Yes I do. The primary mover in those exercises are the spinal erectors. They extend the hip and as well as the torso.

(http://slideplayer.com/slide/8083235/25/images/35/Erector+spinae+Insertion:.jpg)
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: chess315 on February 14, 2018, 03:43:08 PM
Yes I do. The primary mover in those exercises are the spinal erectors. They extend the hip and as well as the torso.

(http://slideplayer.com/slide/8083235/25/images/35/Erector+spinae+Insertion:.jpg)
yes that's why I say why not traditional deadlift to get all the other muscle groups involved
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on February 14, 2018, 04:42:10 PM
Craig "Killer " Titus some of the best Hams ever. He gave up doing heavy squats for good...

Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: chuckles on February 14, 2018, 11:55:55 PM
No one talks about the glute muscle. It's the muscle that draws the femur backwards. It incredibly important to sprinting and jumping. Of course no muscle works in isolation but there is too much talk of the quad in sport when it's the glute that's doing the lion's share in my many athletics from kinesiology evaluation.
Tight muscular Buns are a must & as you pointed out important in many sports. THE SQUAT IS THE KING.
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: chuckles on February 15, 2018, 12:00:41 AM
Squats is better than deadlifts is totally bro science
It's common sense. You can't develop a lower body with Deadlifts like you can with the squat. People are just wimping out of doing them. Hard ass, balls to walls Squats. you have to use them at least in the beginning as Yates did for that foundation of mass & strength..note the word STRENGTH. REAL MUSCLE.
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: VladimirVersic on February 15, 2018, 12:11:54 AM
This hamstrings play a small role at the bottom of squats when the pelvis tilts anteriorly. That creates a stretch reflex response at the “Proximal” end, causing the hams to contract, but it’s not an active contraction. The lion’s share of the work is being done by the glutes and the quads. The former pulls the femur back down and pushes the pelvis forward and up. The latter pushes the femur down and back and the tibia up and back.


Good find, btw.

Must say you Sir seem wery knowegable in anatomy.
What is Your occupation if i can ask?  ;D
And i heard that about sprinting.
Use some form of it running up and down a hump of sand.
Also jumps to front and side to side.
Of course Squat is my main movement.
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: chuckles on February 15, 2018, 03:11:48 AM
 :)
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: chuckles on February 15, 2018, 04:46:59 AM
Hardcore training. This dude knows
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: Thin Lizzy on February 15, 2018, 04:59:58 AM
Must say you Sir seem wery knowegable in anatomy.
What is Your occupation if i can ask?  ;D
And i heard that about sprinting.
Use some form of it running up and down a hump of sand.
Also jumps to front and side to side.
Of course Squat is my main movement.

Thanks👍 I worked as a trainer way back in the day before you even needed a certification to get a gig. But I got out of that business. I’ve also studied a lot of martial arts and tried to learn as much as I could about the biomechanics behind them. It’s an incredibly complex subject. That’s why I give Rippeto credit. At least he tries to tackle it.

As far as the best hamstring exercise, I would have to go with the single leg leg-curl.  It allows you to keep your hips extended better than the two legged version.
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: chess315 on February 15, 2018, 02:49:19 PM
Thanks👍 I worked as a trainer way back in the day before you even needed a certification to get a gig. But I got out of that business. I’ve also studied a lot of martial arts and tried to learn as much as I could about the biomechanics behind them. It’s an incredibly complex subject. That’s why I give Rippeto credit. At least he tries to tackle it.

As far as the best hamstring exercise, I would have to go with the single leg leg-curl.  It allows you to keep your hips extended better than the two legged version.
bullshit just like martial arts
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: Henda on February 15, 2018, 02:51:39 PM
Hardcore training. This dude knows


I like how he has a special place for his brushes and dustpan yet the place is an absolute shithole
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: chess315 on February 15, 2018, 02:53:05 PM
I'm not arguing that squats will build bigger legs , deadlifts will build more asthetic legs for the average person.
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: chuckles on February 16, 2018, 12:54:23 AM
I'm not arguing that squats will build bigger legs , deadlifts will build more asthetic legs for the average person.
well if you want to do that you would be better with barbell hacks. Bertil Fox did these & he was strong indeed.
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: chuckles on February 16, 2018, 01:01:13 AM
Danny Padilla another great bodybuilder..
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: Griffith on February 16, 2018, 04:45:27 AM
I'm not arguing that squats will build bigger legs , deadlifts will build more asthetic legs for the average person.

I agree, deadlifts alone are still going to build legs.
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: Thin Lizzy on February 16, 2018, 05:16:32 AM
I agree, deadlifts alone are still going to build legs.

Another argument for deadlifts is that they don’t require that a metal bar dig into your upper back.

That said, for the average person just looking for overall strength and fitness, and not maximum size, bodyweight squats are a very good option.
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: chuckles on February 16, 2018, 05:23:13 AM
Another argument for deadlifts is that they don’t require that a metal bar dig into your upper back.

That said, for the average person just looking for overall strength and fitness, and not maximum size, bodyweight squats are a very good option.
Pre-exhaust the Quads yes but alone free hand squats(one legged better) won't cut it. Listen to the plates rattle when platz squats...music bro...music.
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: chuckles on February 16, 2018, 07:33:12 AM
Another argument for deadlifts is that they don’t require that a metal bar dig into your upper back.

That said, for the average person just looking for overall strength and fitness, and not maximum size, bodyweight squats are a very good option.
A good video about squats & lower back strength. Good video overall. you need to train lower back & squat.
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: ProudVirgin69 on February 16, 2018, 09:25:39 AM
Yes I do. The primary mover in those exercises are the spinal erectors. They extend the hip and as well as the torso.

(http://slideplayer.com/slide/8083235/25/images/35/Erector+spinae+Insertion:.jpg)

No they do not.  You will not find a single credible source stating that the spinal erector muscles are primary movers in hip extension.  It is patently false.

Your understanding of biomechanics is deeply flawed, but it's never too late to learn. 
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on February 16, 2018, 10:56:59 AM
I like how he has a special place for his brushes and dustpan yet the place is an absolute shithole

lol
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: chuckles on February 16, 2018, 01:27:49 PM
No they do not.  You will not find a single credible source stating that the spinal erector muscles are primary movers in hip extension.  It is patently false.

Your understanding of biomechanics is deeply flawed, but it's never too late to learn. 
turning into a great Thread. Although people think it's a simple exercise the squat is complicated. Stands to reason as it trains the whole Lower Body.
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: chuckles on February 17, 2018, 02:59:30 AM
wow, she don't give up.
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: SEC_1 on February 17, 2018, 07:46:55 AM
Craig "Killer " Titus some of the best Hams ever. He gave up doing heavy squats for good...


Fucking gorgeous. Notice that when Craig is around EVERY other male instantly becomes a beta.


No man on the planet was sexier, especially when Craiggers was shredded.
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: Sexybeast777 on February 17, 2018, 08:35:17 AM
for me squats are all quads. My hamstrings are better worked by deadlifts
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: chuckles on February 17, 2018, 08:55:08 AM
for me squats are all quads. My hamstrings are better worked by deadlifts
Maybe but i see a lot of people who can't squat because of flexibility issues..Hamstrings & ankles.
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: chuckles on February 19, 2018, 01:26:17 AM
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: chuckles on February 20, 2018, 05:58:47 AM
Today is leg day... :)
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: chuckles on February 20, 2018, 06:03:48 AM
Must say you Sir seem wery knowegable in anatomy.
What is Your occupation if i can ask?  ;D
And i heard that about sprinting.
Use some form of it running up and down a hump of sand.
Also jumps to front and side to side.
Of course Squat is my main movement.
Squats have to be the meat & Bones of any leg workout. Any serious workout. Hacks are OK but not the main exercise as some use them.
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: Sexybeast777 on February 20, 2018, 11:45:09 AM
call me crazy, but squats and deadlifts give me the most size
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: Griffith on February 20, 2018, 12:28:48 PM
call me crazy, but squats and deadlifts give me the most size

Deadlifts more so for me.
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: Sexybeast777 on February 20, 2018, 02:56:54 PM
Deadlifts more so for me.
and bench press gives me the most upper body size
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: chuckles on February 21, 2018, 12:20:01 AM
and bench press gives me the most upper body size
  the upper Body squat...!
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: chuckles on February 21, 2018, 12:24:04 AM
Try squats & Military press for upper Body. Standing press is also a Mark of real strength
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: Sexybeast777 on February 21, 2018, 05:02:29 AM
  the upper Body squat...!
I'm not gonna lie, the squats hit my lats a lot
Title: Re: Squats & Hamstrings
Post by: Sexybeast777 on February 21, 2018, 05:03:31 AM
Try squats & Military press for upper Body. Standing press is also a Mark of real strength
I do standing military press, but nothing works my upper body like the bench press