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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Vince B on July 18, 2018, 09:25:19 PM
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I came across an article via the UBC Alumni Library that allows us to access scientific journals.
The findings contradicts what bodybuilders, gym owners and PE teachers believed about weight loss.
Comparisons were made between active and inactive similar groups and found the energy used to be about equal.
In other words being active or doing exercise doesn't make you use more calories! That really is a surprise and needs to be explained.
Here is a link to The Exercise Paradox.
https://www.csicop.org/specialarticles/show/why_physical_activity_does_little_to_control_weight
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Here is the original article:
The Exercise Paradox. By: Pontzer, Herman, Scientific American, 00368733, Feb2017, Vol. 316, Issue 2
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Bunk. Calories are energy. Work output is energy. Stored body mass is energy. Manipulate any of those factors up or down and it will affect body weight one way or the other.
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Bunk. Calories are energy. Work output is energy. Stored body mass is energy. Manipulate any of those factors up or down and it will affect body weight one way or the other.
You obviously didn't read the research.
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You obviously didn't read the research.
Vince are you posting this to troll?
Why do NBA players gain so much weight when they retire? Do you think Shaq, Barkley and Jordan are just eating more in retirement or do you think the fact that they are no longer running ("exercising") 2-3 miles a game, and that's not neven considering practice, plays a bigger part in the weight gain?
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Vince are you posting this to troll?
Why do NBA players gain so much weight when they retire? Do you think Shaq, Barkley and Jordan are just eating more in retirement or do you think the fact that they are no longer running ("exercising") 2-3 miles a game, and that's not neven considering practice, plays a bigger part in the weight gain?
Dave, I have no interest in this except to correct mistaken assumptions we all made about the benefits of doing exercise to lose weight.
By this I mean my opinion isn't at stake here. I am simply discussing the results of research into calorie consumption by active vs inactive groups.
Read what the researchers found comparing the same people in Africa and America living active versus sedentary lifestyles. Quite a surprise.
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Dave, I have no interest in this except to correct mistaken assumptions we all made about the benefits of doing exercise to lose weight.
By this I mean my opinion isn't at stake here. I am simply discussing the results of research into calorie consumption by active vs inactive groups.
Read what the researchers found comparing the same people in Africa and America living active versus sedentary lifestyles. Quite a surprise.
Okay I read the article and the study is interesting. The idea that calorie restriction alone causes weight loss and not exercise, as we use the same amount of engery regardless of physical output, is a counter culture idea.
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You can't out exercise a bad diet....but you're a fool if you believe that exercise doesn't at least help somewhat in losing weight.
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You can't out exercise a bad diet....but you're a fool if you believe that exercise doesn't at least help somewhat in losing weight.
The research is formidable and done many times with different groups. Somehow humans evolved to use a certain amount of calories no matter what work was done.
Why this is so is interesting but the results change what we believed about going to a gym to lose weight. It is literally a lie.
The research explains something that every gym owner knows. It is extremely difficult to reduce fat on obese individuals. Look at what protocols are prescribed for
the obese who join gyms. Do heaps and heaps of cardio. They tire and overheat but don't lose fat. Now we know why. So we bodybuilders have to adjust our beliefs and
not look down on fat people. Changing body composition is extremely difficult. Yes, forms of diets eventually work but even here there are difficulties.
There are still heaps of benefits for doing exercise and especially resistance training of course.
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I came across an article via the UBC Alumni Library that allows us to access scientific journals.
The findings contradicts what bodybuilders, gym owners and PE teachers believed about weight loss.
Comparisons were made between active and inactive similar groups and found the energy used to be about equal.
In other words being active or doing exercise doesn't make you use more calories! That really is a surprise and needs to be explained.
Here is a link to The Exercise Paradox.
https://www.csicop.org/specialarticles/show/why_physical_activity_does_little_to_control_weight
I didn't read the article because I will exercise regardless. Still, if you get two identical twins, exact same food intake that maintains their current weight and the exact same job. And when they come home one goes to the gym for two hours six days a week and the other just sits and watches TV. Hard to believe this would not make a difference.
Has your weight changed since you stopped working out?
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You obviously didn't read the research.
Nope, no need to because the whole premise is idiotic. Walk 10 miles a day with same calorie intake and see what happens.
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I didn't read the article because I will exercise regardless. Still, if you get two identical twins, exact same food intake that maintains their current weight and the exact same job. And when they come home one goes to the gym for two hours six days a week and the other just sits and watches TV. Hard to believe this would not make a difference.
Has your weight changed since you stopped working out?
Have you heard of the concept of set points re weight? BBW love this term. Essentially your body stays at a certain weight for a long period of time. The trouble with the extremely obese is that these set points seem to increase over the years. In the sixties I weighed around 90 kg or almost 200 pounds. When I was teaching PE in the seventies I weighed about 100 kg or 220 pounds. I now weigh about 5 or 6 kg more.
Please read some of that research because it is quite a surprise and something we should all know.
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Have you heard of the concept of set points re weight? BBW love this term. Essentially your body stays at a certain weight for a long period of time. The trouble with the extremely obese is that these set points seem to increase over the years. In the sixties I weighed around 90 kg or almost 200 pounds. When I was teaching PE in the seventies I weighed about 100 kg or 220 pounds. I now weigh about 5 or 6 kg more.
Please read some of that research because it is quite a surprise and something we should all know.
All right, I'll read the damn thing. But my set point has varied during various stages of life. In my pristine peak, mid-twenties to mid-thirties, I always seemed to hover around 190-195 lb. Now I'm at 175-180 very often dropping to 170 lbs if I don't make it a point to keep up with my eating.
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Herman Pontzer is an anthropologist at Hunter College. He wrote:
"All of this evidence points toward obesity being a disease of gluttony rather than sloth. People gain weight when the calories they eat exceed the calories they expend. If daily energy expenditure has not changed over the course of human history, the primary culprit in the modern obesity pandemic must be the calories consumed. This should not be news. The old adage in public health is that “you can’t outrun a bad diet,” and experts know from personal experience and lots of data that just hitting the gym to lose weight is frustratingly ineffective. But the new science helps to explain why exercise is such a poor tool for weight loss. It is not that we are not trying hard enough. Our bodies have been plotting against us from the start."
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Herman Pontzer is an anthropologist at Hunter College. He wrote:
"All of this evidence points toward obesity being a disease of gluttony rather than sloth. People gain weight when the calories they eat exceed the calories they expend. If daily energy expenditure has not changed over the course of human history, the primary culprit in the modern obesity pandemic must be the calories consumed. This should not be news. The old adage in public health is that “you can’t outrun a bad diet,” and experts know from personal experience and lots of data that just hitting the gym to lose weight is frustratingly ineffective. But the new science helps to explain why exercise is such a poor tool for weight loss. It is not that we are not trying hard enough. Our bodies have been plotting against us from the start."
Well, I do agree with that and have always believed that the number one reason people are fat is that they just eat too much. Coming from a big family there just wasn't enough food on the table for everyone to just stuff themselves. My mom would keep a close watch and let you know if she thought you had your share. And I really doubt she did that because she cared about our waistlines.
It's only relatively late in life when I started to pay closer attention to these things, that I noticed when most people eat, at least in the prosperous United States, people don't stop eating until they are stuffed. They just keep shoving in the food until it's all gone. I am amazed at how much people can eat in one sitting.
They can talk about genetics and being "big boned" all they want but, unless you're a teenager, I have never met a skinny adult that had a big appetite.
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Well, I do agree with that and have always believed that the number one reason people are fat is that they just eat too much. Coming from a big family there just wasn't enough food on the table for everyone to just stuff themselves. My mom would keep a close watch and let you know if she thought you had your share. And I really doubt she did that because she cared about our waistlines.
It's only relatively late in life when I started to pay closer attention to these things, that I noticed when most people eat, at least in the prosperous United States, people don't stop eating until they are stuffed. They just keep shoving in the food until it's all gone. I am amazed at how much people can eat in one sitting.
They can talk about genetics and being "big boned" all they want but, unless you're a teenager, I have never met a skinny adult that had a big appetite.
That was me until approx 8-10 years ago.
Always been skinny although I ate like a 240 lbs man, even if I ate let's say 5/6 bigmacs in a sitting or 2 pounds of meat my weight never changed.
It was frustrating trying to put on mass.
After 35 years old my weight just went up to the point that now I have to exercise as much as possible (now my weight is 200 lbs/6" but body fat is high).
I guess as you age your metabolism just slows down every year.
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I know from my own life experience that exercise helps you stay lean. So your article must be bunk.
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That's because your metabolism tries to adapt ASAP to a certain stress (survival mechanism). The only way to keep burning fat on the long haul is by re-adjusting your calorie intake and/or your exercise volume/frequency when needed.
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There is the science and then there’s how things play out in the real world.
People who go from a sedentary job to an active one will invariably find that they lose weight. This is because they not only burn more calories but they also have less free time to eat. It’s a lot easier to eat while you’re sitting at a desk then if you are doing something like construction work.
That said, exercise increases appetite. On Saturdays, I’ll do a long run of 10 miles or more. After that, I could spend the rest of the day going from one meal to the next. So, if you’re not careful you can easily make up the calories burned and then some. That’s what a lot of people do. They put too much currency in exercise as a weight-loss tool and see it as a license to fill their faces.
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One thing that should be mentioned that weight, in and of itself, is the not the issue with most people.
It's body composition. So two people can be the same height and weight but if one if doing intense resistance training and the other one is a couch potato they will look very, very different and their lean to fat ratio will also be quite different.
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From most of the posts here people don't believe what the researchers found. Lifestyle didn't make a difference to energy used.
That goes against everything we believed even in high school. The reality is that this notion while seemingly making sense is false.
Somehow we evolved to use a certain amount of energy and that wasn't related to what we were doing....being active or sitting around.
The large human brains require a lot of energy. So we adapted systems that converted food to energy faster. Plus we didn't depend on
vegetation like many other animals do. We needed a much more efficient and effective digestive system.
Looks like one of the basic bro-science beliefs has to be erased. Exercise alone isn't effective in reducing body weight.
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Some of what's covered in the article makes sense. Studies are difficult to refute, particularly if your not a scientist who specializes in the study of exercise and weight loss.
My own experiences tend to support what the article says. When I'm in full exercise mode, I tend to gain weight. This is because exercising makes me feel hungrier then when I don't exercise. In fact, I often have force myself to eat during extended periods of inactivity. Another factor is that I originally started lifting weights some 58 years ago in order to gain weight and I was successful, probably because my doctor simultaneously prescribed D-bol and testosterone because I was so grossly underweight.
As I have come to realize over my lifetime, I have an unusually fast metabolism. I recently confirmed this once again when I decided to stop drinking alcohol. Being as how I was a fairly heavy drinker, I expected to experience detox symptoms, which never happened, so I investigated why this might be. Turns out, people who metabolize alcohol faster, tend to not have hangovers or experience much detox when quitting. The negative result is that I was an alcoholic with little or no symptoms. Rarely did I ever experience drunkenness. Therefore, the usual triggers to let you know when you've had enough don't kick in. I was buying a fifth of scotch pretty much every other day even though I never drank before 5:00 p.m. (a self made rule).
Alcohol is full of empty calories in the form of sugar. Since stopping drinking a little over a week ago, I've lost about a pound a day even though I've forced myself to eat more. In addition, I lowered my carbohydrate and upped protein intake.
The bottom line is that not all people fit into generalized studies. There are always exceptions.
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Looks like one of the basic bro-science beliefs has to be erased. Exercise alone isn't effective in reducing body weight.[/color]
I'm stunned that there is anybody here who actually thinks exercising has anything to do with reducing body weight, alone.
I thought we were all clear. Body is machine, we fuel it. Body covers itself with spare fuel. Body doesn't get that fuel, uses spare fuel in fat cells.
Exercise has nothing to do with that other than exacerbating the fuel requirements.
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I think another thing to be considered is we overestimate the amount of calories burned through exercise. 1 hour of exercise is maybe 500-600 calories .. it's very easy to undo that just by eating a little extra
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Bunk. Calories are energy fuel. Work output is energy. Stored body mass is energy fuel. Manipulate any of those factors up or down and it will affect body weight one way or the other.
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I'm stunned that there is anybody here who actually thinks exercising has anything to do with reducing body weight, alone.
I thought we were all clear. Body is machine, we fuel it. Body covers itself with spare fuel. Body doesn't get that fuel, uses spare fuel in fat cells.
Exercise has nothing to do with that other than exacerbating the fuel requirements.
It would if everything else remained constant, but it doesn’t. Runners even have a term for the appetite increase that occurs as a result of all the running, “Runger.”
That said, if you do want to lose body fat , combining exercise and diet will work faster than just diet alone.
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A pound of fat is 3500 calories. A hard lifting session is between 200 and 300 calories burned. A three mile run is over 300 calories. I also believe exercises increases metabolism because when I run I drop weight quicker than the math would allow for.
Of course a fat lazy people would use a biased flawed study that says it's diet alone. You don't need a study to figure out that water is wet. Swimmers are notorious for eating insane amounts of calories and Division I swimmers are super lean.
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I didn't read the article because I will exercise regardless. Still, if you get two identical twins, exact same food intake that maintains their current weight and the exact same job. And when they come home one goes to the gym for two hours six days a week and the other just sits and watches TV. Hard to believe this would not make a difference.
Has your weight changed since you stopped working out?
:D
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A pound of fat is 3500 calories. A hard lifting session is between 200 and 300 calories burned. A three mile run is over 300 calories. I also believe exercises increases metabolism because when I run I drop weight quicker than the math would allow for.
Of course a fat lazy people would use a biased flawed study that says it's diet alone. You don't need a study to figure out that water is wet. Swimmers are notorious for eating insane amounts of calories and Division I swimmers are super lean.
At the end of the day the lifter will look way better than the runner
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If I do exercise my body heats up and I sweat. Where is this excess heat coming from if not from energy stored in the body being released and converted into heat and motion?
When a car engine produces more power as you depress the accelerator it consumes more fuel, and gets hotter, the fuel tank drains faster and the car gets lighter as a result.
Same thing happens in a human, if you keep your calories constant but increase the workload, the excess energy has to come from somewhere which is the fuel stored in your body. The fuel gets converted to energy and heat and you get lighter.
That isn't what the research found. You have to actually read the research and then ask questions. What most of you are doing is dismissing the research because you can't change the logic that you have accumulated over the decades. The researchers tested the hypothesis many times and with many factors considered but got the same result. The twin who exercises regularly and the twin who is a couch potato all consume the same amount of energy. The exercise doesn't result in a lower bodyweight. That might be difficult to accept but it is what they found. What we have to do is discard our previous ideas and somehow incorporate that research into beliefs about exercise and weight loss. The researchers wanted to know why that was so and asked questions about how we evolved compared to our closest relatives the apes. We evolved larger brains and longevity. Both are adaptations that require adjustments to energy metabolism and use.
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time to put vince in elderly care facility...vince u should know better i didnt really want u to eat the grass clippings
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I'm dubious on this whole thread.
Particularly as I believe Vince just quoted someone and somehow manifested the complete opposite point of view from it than was depicted.
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Too many fuckheads go to the gym for an hour and throw round some weights thinking they are burning 1000 calories...lmfao!! Dumb Fucks!! Diet is everything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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What Herman Pontzer wrote:
"But a funny thing happened on the way to the isotope ratio mass spectrometer. When the analyses came back from Baylor, the Hadza looked like everyone else. Hadza men ate and burned about 2,600 calories a day, Hadza women about 1,900 calories a day—the same as adults in the U.S. or Europe. We looked at the data every way imaginable, accounting for effects of body size, fat percentage, age and sex. No difference. How was it possible? What were we missing? What else were we getting wrong about human biology and evolution?
It seems so obvious and inescapable that physically active people burn more calories that we accept this paradigm without much critical reflection or experimental evidence. But since the 1980s and 1990s, with the advent of the doubly labeled water method, the empirical data have often challenged the conventional wisdom in public health and nutrition. The Hadza result, strange as it seemed, was not some thunderbolt from the blue but more like the first cold drop of water down your neck from a rain that had been building, ignored, for years."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadza_people
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I'm dubious on this whole thread.
Particularly as I believe Vince just quoted someone and somehow manifested the complete opposite point of view from it than was depicted.
Meaning he forgets (or 'forgets'?) mentioning the metabolic adaptation part?
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All I see is an article talking about evidence with zero evidence other than somebody’s opinion. There’s a link inside the article as well that goes to a page with zero fact-based evidence unless observing a spear-chucking tribe that eats dirt in their mud huts counts as evidence. It’s not like BMR adapts and isn’t lower in the group that is starving or anything.....
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Yet another one of Basile’s long winded excuses for his present obese condition
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Too many fuckheads go to the gym for an hour and throw round some weights thinking they are burning 1000 calories...lmfao!! Dumb Fucks!! Diet is everything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Weight training has a very high rest to work ratio. Most of the time in the gym is spent sitting on a bench staring into space.
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The point was it's energy in/energy out and the study assumes some magical x factor.
Yes, the body can adapt to +/- work and +/- caloric input and does attempt to retain homeostasis but only over a shorter term. If you walk 10 miles a day and take in 1500 calories at 200lbs you will lose like 20% of your body weight over say a 6 month period. Your body won't magically stay at 200lbs under those conditions because it wants to. Why am I even having to type this?
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an excellent article which supports mr canada 1870's theory of "safety fat"
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Who goes to the Gym to lose weight? You do that in the kitchen.
You go to the Gym to GAIN muscle.
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Weight training has a very high rest to work ratio. Most of the time in the gym is spent sitting on a bench staring into space.
This depends on the person and their routine. I make it a point not to rest longer then 30 seconds between sets. My phone stays in my locker and I make an effort to avoid any potentially lengthly conversations.
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Who goes to the Gym to lose weight? You do that in the kitchen.
You go to the Gym to GAIN muscle.
This is true. It is also true that some of us go to the gym to remain healthy.
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Good person to take advice on losing weight
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=146902.0;attach=163489;image)
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Maybe someone should explain the difference to Vince that weight loss isn’t the same fat loss.
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Basile could get on "My 600lb Life" as an expert with this level of excuses.
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Good person to take advice on losing weight
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=146902.0;attach=163489;image)
Sometimes we don't see ourselves the way others see us. -Could be the case with Vince.
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Some of what's covered in the article makes sense. Studies are difficult to refute, particularly if your not a scientist who specializes in the study of exercise and weight loss.
My own experiences tend to support what the article says. When I'm in full exercise mode, I tend to gain weight. This is because exercising makes me feel hungrier then when I don't exercise. In fact, I often have force myself to eat during extended periods of inactivity. Another factor is that I originally started lifting weights some 58 years ago in order to gain weight and I was successful, probably because my doctor simultaneously prescribed D-bol and testosterone because I was so grossly underweight.
As I have come to realize over my lifetime, I have an unusually fast metabolism. I recently confirmed this once again when I decided to stop drinking alcohol. Being as how I was a fairly heavy drinker, I expected to experience detox symptoms, which never happened, so I investigated why this might be. Turns out, people who metabolize alcohol faster, tend to not have hangovers or experience much detox when quitting. The negative result is that I was an alcoholic with little or no symptoms. Rarely did I ever experience drunkenness. Therefore, the usual triggers to let you know when you've had enough don't kick in. I was buying a fifth of scotch pretty much every other day even though I never drank before 5:00 p.m. (a self made rule).
Alcohol is full of empty calories in the form of sugar. Since stopping drinking a little over a week ago, I've lost about a pound a day even though I've forced myself to eat more. In addition, I lowered my carbohydrate and upped protein intake.
The bottom line is that not all people fit into generalized studies. There are always exceptions.
For how long have you been a heavy drinker?
Not drinking for 1 week is not "i stopped drinking".
You might want to seek professional help if you really want to stop.
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At the end of the day the lifter will look way better than the runner
absolutely runners and cyclists look weak. often skinnyfat.
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absolutely runners and cyclists look weak. often skinnyfat.
In other words, like most Dutch men :-X ;D
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Looking at one research article and taking it at face value is not very smart.
Start with a logical approach, 1000's of papers show the exercise will help burn calories. One or maybe few show the opposite. What is the prevailing notion?
Now, if you wanted to discuss the article since you might be interested in details how the research was set-up, that is different. Unfortunately, there are quite a few organizations that will publish research papers without proper peer-review.
Be careful what you choose to read and believe.
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For how long have you been a heavy drinker?
Not drinking for 1 week is not "i stopped drinking".
You might want to seek professional help if you really want to stop.
Thanks for the advice. I've over indulged when drinking at home for more than a decade. I don't plan to quit ALCOHOL altogether. My plan is to stop drinking at home alone because that's the only time I over indulge. When I am at a social occasion, I maybe have two drinks and I'm done.
If I revert to over-indulgent, solitary drinking, I will seek professional help. Hopefully, that won't be necessary. I have a good record of breaking bad habits and sticking to it.
When I was in my twenties, I smoked 3 packs of cigarettes a day. I decided to quit. I never smoked cigarettes again. This was 45 years ago. Several years ago, a friend brought two very expensive cigars when he and his wife came to dinner. To be polite, I smoked with him. It was a real chore since I never cared for cigars.
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Weight training has a very high rest to work ratio. Most of the time in the gym is spent sitting on a bench staring into space.
texting on your phone, watching TV, reading a magazine.... When you go to a gym nowadays, most people spend, easily, 85% of their time doing absolutely nothing physical.
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That isn't what the research found. You have to actually read the research and then ask questions. What most of you are doing is dismissing the research because you can't change the logic that you have accumulated over the decades. The researchers tested the hypothesis many times and with many factors considered but got the same result. The twin who exercises regularly and the twin who is a couch potato all consume the same amount of energy. The exercise doesn't result in a lower bodyweight. That might be difficult to accept but it is what they found. What we have to do is discard our previous ideas and somehow incorporate that research into beliefs about exercise and weight loss. The researchers wanted to know why that was so and asked questions about how we evolved compared to our closest relatives the apes. We evolved larger brains and longevity. Both are adaptations that require adjustments to energy metabolism and use.
If I followed every bit of research that came.out over the years I'd probably look and feel like shit.
I don't give a fuck what this says or you say, my life experience tells me otherwise. I'll stick to cardio training and diet while they still try and figure shit out. Thanks.
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texting on your phone, watching TV, reading a magazine.... When you go to a gym nowadays, most people spend, easily, 85% of their time doing absolutely nothing physical.
Recently while in a gym, I heard a woman talking loudly, so I look in the direction of the voice and I see somebody on a lat pulldown machine. I keep looking around but there’s no one else in the area. It turned out the woman was talking on her headset phone DURING a set of lat pulldowns. The bitch couldn’t shut the fuck up for 20 seconds to do a set. Not surprisingly, she looked like shit.
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If I followed every bit of research that came.out over the years I'd probably look and feel like shit.
I don't give a fuck what this says or you say, my life experience tells me otherwise. I'll stick to cardio training and diet while they still try and figure shit out. Thanks.
Yes, of course, what is the test of truth when it comes to accepting or believing anything? Scientists have quite a different test to most of the flotsam on Getbig.
I guess most here are completely incapable of learning anything new about physiology. We take our false beliefs to our graves.
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Looking at one research article and taking it at face value is not very smart.
Start with a logical approach, 1000's of papers show the exercise will help burn calories. One or maybe few show the opposite. What is the prevailing notion?
Now, if you wanted to discuss the article since you might be interested in details how the research was set-up, that is different. Unfortunately, there are quite a few organizations that will publish research papers without proper peer-review.
Be careful what you choose to read and believe.
Starting with a logical approach? Broscience? No way you are going to learn anything that way. You just reinforce your strongly held beliefs.
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could be true, u may shit a higher proportion if calories too high
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Yes, of course, what is the test of truth when it comes to accepting or believing anything? Scientists have quite a different test to most of the flotsam on Getbig.
I guess most here are completely incapable of learning anything new about physiology. We take our false beliefs to our graves.
You're clinging to this one study for dear life. Go ahead and sit at home like a vegetable and pretend it's helping you stay lean. Then post another one of your delusionaly based pictures so we can laugh some more.
This isn't anything new. We've had many guys talk about how you dont need to do A,b and c. And almost all of them look like shit. Again. Thanks. But no thanks .
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Looking at one research article and taking it at face value is not very smart.
Start with a logical approach, 1000's of papers show the exercise will help burn calories. One or maybe few show the opposite. What is the prevailing notion?
Now, if you wanted to discuss the article since you might be interested in details how the research was set-up, that is different. Unfortunately, there are quite a few organizations that will publish research papers without proper peer-review.
Be careful what you choose to read and believe.
Somehow this common sense went right over his head. Now all other studies are bro science.
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I came across an article via the UBC Alumni Library that allows us to access scientific journals.
The findings contradicts what bodybuilders, gym owners and PE teachers believed about weight loss.
Comparisons were made between active and inactive similar groups and found the energy used to be about equal.
In other words being active or doing exercise doesn't make you use more calories! That really is a surprise and needs to be explained.
Here is a link to The Exercise Paradox.
https://www.csicop.org/specialarticles/show/why_physical_activity_does_little_to_control_weight
GTFO. What nonsense but lard asses making excuses for their obesity and laziness issues
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You're clinging to this one study for dear life. Go ahead and sit at home like a vegetable and pretend it's helping you stay lean. Then post another one of your delusionaly based pictures so we can laugh some more.
This isn't anything new. We've had many guys talk about how you dont need to do A,d and c. And almost all of them look like shit. Again. Thanks. But no thanks .
There are several uneducated muscle heads here. I search for the truth. That photo was stolen from a site of mine before I had a password.
I examine research and do even more research. Gradually the truth will emerge. Sometimes things have to change because of that research.
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Yet another one of Basile’s long winded excuses for his present obese condition
That pretty much sums up Vince' 'motivation' to start this thread with his 'safety fat' nonsense, as if he's living like a caveman ::)
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Who wouldn’t take advice on weight loss from this mountain of shredded muscle?!?
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=146902.0;attach=163489;image%5B/img%5D)
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Herman Pontzer is an anthropologist at Hunter College. He wrote:
"All of this evidence points toward obesity being a disease of gluttony rather than sloth. People gain weight when the calories they eat exceed the calories they expend. If daily energy expenditure has not changed over the course of human history, the primary culprit in the modern obesity pandemic must be the calories consumed. This should not be news. The old adage in public health is that “you can’t outrun a bad diet,” and experts know from personal experience and lots of data that just hitting the gym to lose weight is frustratingly ineffective. But the new science helps to explain why exercise is such a poor tool for weight loss. It is not that we are not trying hard enough. Our bodies have been plotting against us from the start."
No wonder you are obese - pathetic
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Who wouldn’t take advice on weight loss from this mountain of shredded muscle?!?
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=146902.0;attach=163489;image%5B/img%5D)
Haha he’s built like a barrel of shit
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I came across an article via the UBC Alumni Library that allows us to access scientific journals.
The findings contradicts what bodybuilders, gym owners and PE teachers believed about weight loss.
Comparisons were made between active and inactive similar groups and found the energy used to be about equal.
In other words being active or doing exercise doesn't make you use more calories! That really is a surprise and needs to be explained.
Here is a link to The Exercise Paradox.
https://www.csicop.org/specialarticles/show/why_physical_activity_does_little_to_control_weight
If Bodybuilder quit clenbuterol among other "supps" they might come to that conclusion .
WooOSHHHHHH TA NA KA
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You see, most here are incapable of discussing or even comprehending complex ideas. Such widespread thickness can not be penetrated by any manner of enlightenment.
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(drugs aside) calorie intake being equal, the more exercise you do the more weight you lose.
this kind of sht is just to make lazy aholes feel better
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You see, most here are incapable of discussing or even comprehending complex ideas. Such widespread thickness can not be penetrated by any manner of enlightenment.
False. You posted a ridiculous idiotic study that belies common sense experience and reality and can’t deal w getting called out in it.
Start exercising and you will see that it might help with your weight issues
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You see, most here are incapable of discussing or even comprehending complex ideas. Such widespread thickness can not be penetrated by any manner of enlightenment.
By stating 'Exercise doesn't help lose more weight!' you have no clue yourself about interpreting this study. After a while the body adapts to a given stress, which is an important distinction.
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well i can eat my Jelly Donut now
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By stating 'Exercise doesn't help lose more weight!' you have no clue yourself about interpreting this study. After a while the body adapts to a given stress, which is an important distinction.
Morbidly obese people always have an excuse - hence this post.
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genetically sound humans do not get fat.
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There’s really two separate issues here:
Does exercise burn calories? Of course.
Will this burning of calories help you lose weight? It might and it might not depending on your diet.
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genetically sound humans do not get fat.
Its the opposite - fat accumulation its a sound mecanism of survival when living far from equator...
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There’s really two separate issues here:
Does exercise burn calories? Of course.
Will this burning of calories help you lose weight? It might and it might not depending on your diet.
People are confusing "losing weight" with getting or being in shape. Those two things don't necessarily mean the same thing. When you think about the type of changes people want to make to their bodies with exercise, losing weight is only one goal people have. Most people who go to my gym aren't strictly trying to lose weight. They are trying to add muscle, change body composition, etc. Someone used an example of twins looking different if they had the same diet but one weight trained daily. They'd probably look different, but the one that worked out wouldn't necessarily weigh less. If they are males, he'd likely weigh more.
The rise in popularity of hiit cardio over steady state in the past few years was partially driven by the fact that your body adjusts the speed it burns calories when you're doing steady state. That falls in line with the topic of this thread.
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fat accumulation its a sound mecanism of survival
the only viable 'mechanism of survival' is competent cognitive function... fat accumulation does not improve impaired, tard DNA
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There’s really two separate issues here:
Does exercise burn calories? Of course.
Will this burning of calories help you lose weight? It might and it might not depending on your diet.
I think this is overall accurate. Cardio alone will have negligible impact on weight loss. The average person can't work off a buffet dinner. Diet is most of weight loss. Having said that, I think the exercise does contribute to a small extent, weight loss, but the health benefits of resistance and cardio training is well worth it even if not a single ounce of weight is lost doing it.
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There are several uneducated muscle heads here. I search for the truth. That photo was stolen from a site of mine before I had a password.
I examine research and do even more research. Gradually the truth will emerge. Sometimes things have to change because of that research.
So is this theory regarding calorie expenditure something you only recently discovered? How might this help you to lose the extra weight (safety fat) you carry around or is that not your goal?
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Thanks for the advice. I've over indulged when drinking at home for more than a decade. I don't plan to quit ALCOHOL altogether. My plan is to stop drinking at home alone because that's the only time I over indulge. When I am at a social occasion, I maybe have two drinks and I'm done.
If I revert to over-indulgent, solitary drinking, I will seek professional help. Hopefully, that won't be necessary. I have a good record of breaking bad habits and sticking to it.
When I was in my twenties, I smoked 3 packs of cigarettes a day. I decided to quit. I never smoked cigarettes again. This was 45 years ago. Several years ago, a friend brought two very expensive cigars when he and his wife came to dinner. To be polite, I smoked with him. It was a real chore since I never cared for cigars.
No trolling Prime but don't underestimate the situation. You drink a LOT and is going to be very hard to stop that all at once.
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Alright here's the facts:
1. Cardio is useless for losing weight. You burn a few hundred calories but your body slows metabolism accordingly to retain the stored energy (fat). In short, cardio sucks.
2. The ONLY way to become lean is to weight train using compound movements in the 6-8 rep range, while eating a high protein low glycemic diet.
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The U.S. Department of Agriculture estimates that, on average, an adult American woman needs between 1,800 and 2,400 kcal each day to support her normal activities. The range for adult men is between 2,400 and 3,000 kcal.
Compare these numbers to the calories burned by a professional cyclist riding in the Tour de France. Riders will typically burn about 4,000 kcal on an "easy" stage. Average stages require between 4,000 and 6,000 kcal. Grueling mountain stages demand calorie burns of 7,000 kcal or more. A Tour de France rider will burn enough calories during a six-hour mountain stage to fuel an average person's activity for two to four days.
Nutritionists who work for the teams that ride in the Tour de France try to provide each rider with a daily diet of 6,000 to 8,000 kcal. To fulfill these high-calorie diets the riders consume both liquid and solid food from the moment they get up in the morning to the moment they go to bed at night.
The goal may be to consume 6,000 to 8,000 calories a day but few riders are successful at meeting this goal throughout the course of the Tour. They inevitably fall behind and once that occurs, it's almost impossible to catch up. When calorie intake falls behind demand, the body begins to feed on itself to get the energy it needs to finish the stage.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kevinmurnane/2016/07/18/fueling-the-peloton-in-the-tour-de-france/#4eda141e3fbd (https://www.forbes.com/sites/kevinmurnane/2016/07/18/fueling-the-peloton-in-the-tour-de-france/#4eda141e3fbd)
lol that is only possible because of all the doping. the article does not mention any of that.
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By stating 'Exercise doesn't help lose more weight!' you have no clue yourself about interpreting this study. After a while the body adapts to a given stress, which is an important distinction.
sharp.
this might explain why a lot construction workers are fat. working all day hard labour....stil fat ???
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There’s really two separate issues here:
Does exercise burn calories? Of course.
Will this burning of calories help you lose weight? It might and it might not depending on your diet.
this
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No trolling Prime but don't underestimate the situation. You drink a LOT and is going to be very hard to stop that all at once.
I agree with you on both counts. This is why I am so amazed at how easy it's been so far. No detox symptoms and no urge to drink. Each day I wonder if this will be the day these things kick in and they don't. I'll admit that I've intentionally started projects at around 5:00 p.m. in the event I need a distraction. Oregon liquor stores close at 8:00 p.m. This means my window of failure is pretty short. I prefer to say I drank a lot. Twelve days of success. I'll build on this as a positive sign.
Although I've not had a problem with drinking socially, I'm avoiding this for the time being.
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Alright here's the facts:
1. Cardio is useless for losing weight. You burn a few hundred calories but your body slows metabolism accordingly to retain the stored energy (fat). In short, cardio sucks.
2. The ONLY way to become lean is to weight train using compound movements in the 6-8 rep range, while eating a high protein low glycemic diet.
So what if cardio doesn't aid in weight loss, it is still a healthy thing to do. An unforeseen benefit I've experienced is that walking on a treadmill improves my stability and balance. Some older folks have issues with these things which explains why they have a greater tendency young folks do to take a fall.
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The U.S. Department of Agriculture estimates that, on average, an adult American woman needs between 1,800 and 2,400 kcal each day to support her normal activities. The range for adult men is between 2,400 and 3,000 kcal.
Compare these numbers to the calories burned by a professional cyclist riding in the Tour de France. Riders will typically burn about 4,000 kcal on an "easy" stage. Average stages require between 4,000 and 6,000 kcal. Grueling mountain stages demand calorie burns of 7,000 kcal or more. A Tour de France rider will burn enough calories during a six-hour mountain stage to fuel an average person's activity for two to four days.
Nutritionists who work for the teams that ride in the Tour de France try to provide each rider with a daily diet of 6,000 to 8,000 kcal. To fulfill these high-calorie diets the riders consume both liquid and solid food from the moment they get up in the morning to the moment they go to bed at night.
The goal may be to consume 6,000 to 8,000 calories a day but few riders are successful at meeting this goal throughout the course of the Tour. They inevitably fall behind and once that occurs, it's almost impossible to catch up. When calorie intake falls behind demand, the body begins to feed on itself to get the energy it needs to finish the stage.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kevinmurnane/2016/07/18/fueling-the-peloton-in-the-tour-de-france/#4eda141e3fbd (https://www.forbes.com/sites/kevinmurnane/2016/07/18/fueling-the-peloton-in-the-tour-de-france/#4eda141e3fbd)
We’ll have to get harriet hall md to study the tour cyclists
And confirm they are actually only using the same number of calories
As a sedentary office worker.... ::) ::) ::)
It’s clearly obvious cycling for 6hrs up mountains day after day
Uses no more calories than sitting behind a desk... isn’t that correct
Vince & Harriet... Noble prize winners for stupidity 2018.
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There are several uneducated muscle heads here. I search for the truth. That photo was stolen from a site of mine before I had a password.
I examine research and do even more research. Gradually the truth will emerge. Sometimes things have to change because of that research.
But you also have to look closely at the metrics these studies employ. It could very well be sets of identical twins eat roughly the same number of kcals and weigh about the same, but the twin who engages in regular resistance exercise alone is bound to have a greater muscle/fat ratio -- and while I'm not going to present any specfic studies that document that, I'm sure they exist.
One other note on "studies": if one finds something radically different than, say, fifty before it, there's generally a simple reason to explain the outliers. Science is based on as much. Otherwise, some of the "studies" the cigarette companies did -- you know, the sort that suggested smoking didn't cause various diseases -- would be just as valid as the thousands of studies to the contrary.
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So what if cardio doesn't aid in weight loss, it is still a healthy thing to do. An unforeseen benefit I've experienced is that walking on a treadmill improves my stability and balance. Some older folks have issues with these things which explains why they have a greater tendency young folks do to take a fall.
Older folks need to do squats and deadlifts. Treadmills are for hamsters.
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sharp.
this might explain why a lot construction workers are fat. working all day hard labour....stil fat ???
My theory is that most construction workers hate their job (can't blame them for this), so they comfort themselves with shitty calorie dense foods & booze
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Older folks need to do squats and deadlifts. Treadmills are for hamsters.
Please be quiet
WTF do you know.
Have you forgot your posts ?
18mnths training & not any squats or deadlifts.
Go Away - your a joke.
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One other note on "studies": if one finds something radically different than, say, fifty before it, there's generally a simple reason to explain the outliers. Science is based on as much. Otherwise, some of the "studies" the cigarette companies did -- you know, the sort that suggested smoking didn't cause various diseases -- would be just as valid as the thousands of studies to the contrary.
There are a lot of studies that dispute the link between exercise and weight loss.
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Older folks need to do squats and deadlifts. Treadmills are for hamsters.
Take it from this old folk, squats and deadlifts aren't as productive as they were before our knees and our backs started crapping out. I still do them, but with very little if any added weight.
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old
yes u r, creep... on deaths door, in fact
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yes u r, creep... on deaths door, in fact
A troll's gotta troll. ::)
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A troll's gotta troll. ::)
thats more like the power of positive thinking... if I say it enough...
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sharp.
this might explain why a lot construction workers are fat. working all day hard labour....stil fat ???
Lmao. I've never witnessed a fat fuck that is working hard labor all day consistently. They are almost always slower and less productive then the others provided everything else is the same.
And most guys on a construction site are the worst eaters around. Almost none eat breakfast, most eat garbage processed slop and drink, smoke or get fucked up on some drug or drugs. Honestly, some of the unhealthiest guys on the planet work constriction sites.
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thats more like the power of positive thinking... if I say it enough...
Well then, I think you should say it more and then report back on how that's worked out for you.
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My theory is that most construction workers hate their job (can't blame them for this), so they comfort themselves with shitty calorie dense foods & booze
plausible theory.
plus you cant out labour a pour diet??
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Lmao. I've never witnessed a fat fuck that is working hard labor all day consistently. They are almost always slower and less productive then the others provided everything else is the same.
And most guys on a construction site are the worst eaters around. Almost none eat breakfast, most eat garbage processed slop and drink, smoke or get fucked up on some drug or drugs. Honestly, some of the unhealthiest guys on the planet work constriction sites.
why do they do this? they must feel like Sh!t all the time.
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the impression that I get observing construction sites while I drive by is... most construction workers stand around all day thinking up new ways to do as little actual work as possible. they may even be well rested after a day on the 'job'.
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Lmao. I've never witnessed a fat fuck that is working hard labor all day consistently. They are almost always slower and less productive then the others provided everything else is the same.
And most guys on a construction site are the worst eaters around. Almost none eat breakfast, most eat garbage processed slop and drink, smoke or get fucked up on some drug or drugs. Honestly, some of the unhealthiest guys on the planet work constriction sites.
Usually the older guys who are fat. When you get some seniority you get the easier gigs that don’t involve hard physical labor. The young guys are usually in shape.
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I agree with you on both counts. This is why I am so amazed at how easy it's been so far. No detox symptoms and no urge to drink. Each day I wonder if this will be the day these things kick in and they don't. I'll admit that I've intentionally started projects at around 5:00 p.m. in the event I need a distraction. Oregon liquor stores close at 8:00 p.m. This means my window of failure is pretty short. I prefer to say I drank a lot. Twelve days of success. I'll build on this as a positive sign.
Although I've not had a problem with drinking socially, I'm avoiding this for the time being.
I wish you all the good luck.good to see you have a gameplan.
why did the alcohol consumption become a lot more 10 years ago? stress perhaps?
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I think this is overall accurate. Cardio alone will have negligible impact on weight loss. The average person can't work off a buffet dinner. Diet is most of weight loss. Having said that, I think the exercise does contribute to a small extent, weight loss, but the health benefits of resistance and cardio training is well worth it even if not a single ounce of weight is lost doing it.
no..no… it´s About regular Training, day in day out. This is where People fail. if your Body is alway active you will lose weight & eat well.
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I wish you all the good luck.good to see you have a gameplan.
why did the alcohol consumption become a lot more 10 years ago? stress perhaps?
Thanks for the encouragement and positive thoughts.
Ten years ago was about the time my wife's chronic health issues started becoming critical. Stress seems like as good an excuse as any. After she passed, loneliness and depression became excuses. No more excuses, just actions.
Monday will be three weeks clean. I've made it to the gym every other day as I get my body accustomed to working out again, then it may be everyday, probably by fall. This August is very busy with family visiting and social activities. Presently, I'm just sore enough to know my workouts are working.
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Anyone interested in this subject should read "Why We Get Fat" by Gary Taubes.
A lot of the book is boring, talking about the history of the farmer and food industry lobby and how it shaped the American diet...
But there are two or three chapters where he speaks about obesity, the feedback loop that presence of insulin enhances, and the actual biology of how our bodies convert and store fat-
Basically states that all fat is "energy", and by not having excess insulin present, the body uses fat as primary (and preferred) energy source.
When a person loses weight/fat(excess energy), it is the body simply correcting itself to what we were initially designed to be.
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When a person loses weight/fat(excess energy), it is the body simply correcting itself to what we were initially designed to be.
Some design!
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Thanks for the encouragement and positive thoughts.
Ten years ago was about the time my wife's chronic health issues started becoming critical. Stress seems like as good an excuse as any. After she passed, loneliness and depression became excuses. No more excuses, just actions.
Monday will be three weeks clean. I've made it to the gym every other day as I get my body accustomed to working out again, then it may be everyday, probably by fall. This August is very busy with family visiting and social activities. Presently, I'm just sore enough to know my workouts are working.
Keep going strong brother!
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Some design!
You don't believe some people are fat by design?
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You don't believe some people are fat by design?
Basile only believes in the design of his bicep supinator machine
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You obviously didn't read the research.
I have, many times and I am of two minds.
The research does not suggest what most people immediately assume from the headlines... which is that exercise "doesnt work" for losing weight, rather what they suggest is that exercise harms total weight loss in most people because exercise increases hunger and most people use exercise as an excuse for a "reward" eating session, where they frequently consume more calories than the actual exercise session burned off. It should be pointed out that they've almost deliberately selected for people who FAIL at losing weight from the get go.
So onto two minds:
1. this isn't surprising to anyone who has seen those people who are chronic walkers/joggers/gym goers and yet still see to be chubby year after year.
on the other hand
2. This is one of those things where clever-silly research conflicts with real life heuristics and empirical learning from people actually manipulating their bodies successfully, in the sense that I don't know of anyone who has truly gotten into really impressive shape without doing SOME form of intense physical exercise on a regular basis. Dr Darden was convinced the "skinny fat problem" was a result of people attempting to diet down without doing resistance training, and thus losing as much muscle as they did fat. I know myself from being a fighter that I've done and seen others do ridiuclous transformations as a result of being forced to do ridiculously intense exercise on a regular basis. Ricky "hitman" hatton used to get super fat and bloated between fights, and everyone would start gnashing teeth about how he'd come in fat and wouldnt make weight... every single time that man came in phenomenal physical shape despite just 8-12 weeks earlier often sporting a gut and a chubby face. Try telling one of these milquetoast guys that you can from fat to shredded in 8 weeks and they will simply refuse to believe it.
conventional weight loss advice is a good way to keep people fat for the rest of their lives. Its funny how the people who do things the "wrong" way seem to get the "right" results. I.e people who actually starve themselves and train fucking hard seem to end up ripped while the people who sit their planning out a moderate diet and going for a walk a few times a week seem to be perpetually fucking fat.
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2. This is one of those things where clever-silly research conflicts with real life heuristics and empirical learning from people actually manipulating their bodies successfully, in the sense that I don't know of anyone who has truly gotten into really impressive shape without doing SOME form of intense physical exercise on a regular basis.
This is true, but as you acknowledged, getting into impressive shape is not the same thing as losing weight. In some cases- for some people- it actually means gaining weight. You've never seen anyone get into really impressive shape ONLY by doing intense physical exercise, either. Their diets always reflect what they look like. The paper actually addresses the fact that workouts that burn enough calories to result in weight loss are possible, but those aren't the types of daily workouts most people are doing. I don't think the findings of the paper are that provocative. People are just so used to conflating fitness with weight loss that it seems like what they are hearing is that exercise is useless.
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I came across an article via the UBC Alumni Library that allows us to access scientific journals.
The findings contradicts what bodybuilders, gym owners and PE teachers believed about weight loss.
Comparisons were made between active and inactive similar groups and found the energy used to be about equal.
In other words being active or doing exercise doesn't make you use more calories! That really is a surprise and needs to be explained.
Here is a link to The Exercise Paradox.
https://www.csicop.org/specialarticles/show/why_physical_activity_does_little_to_control_weight
Thanks for the article Vince. I am in total agreement by the way. Seen it through personal experience.
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Anyone interested in this subject should read "Why We Get Fat" by Gary Taubes.
A lot of the book is boring, talking about the history of the farmer and food industry lobby and how it shaped the American diet...
But there are two or three chapters where he speaks about obesity, the feedback loop that presence of insulin enhances, and the actual biology of how our bodies convert and store fat-
Basically states that all fat is "energy", and by not having excess insulin present, the body uses fat as primary (and preferred) energy source.
When a person loses weight/fat(excess energy), it is the body simply correcting itself to what we were initially designed to be.
I can't recall which Gary Taubes book this is from but basically, he is a research scientist that exposes the flawed testing that gave us many of our most sacred beliefs in nutrition. Definitely eye opening
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Thanks for the article Vince. I am in total agreement by the way. Seen it through personal experience.
Hi Vince!
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Hi Vince!
lol! That’s a first for me- being called someone else on this forum. I’ve become an official Getbigger, haha
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My theory is that most construction workers hate their job (can't blame them for this), so they comfort themselves with shitty calorie dense foods & booze
yep i worked in construction when i was a teen
pretty much every labor job, even the laid back ones in the trades, involves copious alcohol consumption and regular feedings of high calorie high fat foodstuffs such as pies and fries, or regular trips to mcdonalds.