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Title: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: old-school-lifter on November 21, 2018, 04:30:21 PM
one of the greats

could have been the greatest HW if he had stuck with Rooney and not let drugs + partying mess him up
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: Powerlift66 on November 21, 2018, 04:31:38 PM
Born June 30, 1966, same day as me... Iron MIke, top 3 in history.
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: AbrahamG on November 21, 2018, 05:15:26 PM
No and No.
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: Brian Poulos on November 21, 2018, 05:16:48 PM
one of the greats

could have been the greatest HW if he had stuck with Rooney and not let drugs + partying mess him up
That would be 32 years ago.
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: Marty Champions on November 21, 2018, 05:33:14 PM
Tyson
Foreman
Lewis
Holyfeild
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: AbrahamG on November 21, 2018, 06:41:41 PM
Anyone who doesn't have Ali and Joe Louis in the top two slots is most likely on the spectrum.
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: Marty Champions on November 21, 2018, 06:48:45 PM
Anyone who doesn't have Ali and Joe Louis in the top two slots is most likely on the spectrum.
Ali was terrible he ate punches to win fites
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: plebian on November 21, 2018, 07:48:30 PM
Ali was terrible he ate punches to win fites

 ::)


Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: Coach is Back! on November 21, 2018, 07:51:21 PM
one of the greats

could have been the greatest HW if he had stuck with Rooney and not let drugs + partying mess him up

Time flies, I didn't think it's been that long.
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: Brian Poulos on November 21, 2018, 08:03:36 PM
Time flies, I didn't think it's been that long.
It's actually been longer. It's actually been 32 years. Not 31. A lot of real intellectuals around here.
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: old-school-lifter on November 21, 2018, 09:14:13 PM
top 3 HW of all time

Holmes
Ali
Tyson
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: AbrahamG on November 21, 2018, 09:18:14 PM
top 3 HW of all time

Holmes
Ali
Tyson


I'm as big a Larry Holmes fan as you'll find.  In fact, I thought he beat Michael Spinks twice and should have retired 50-0.  I can certainly a case for his being 3rd but Mike Tyson is probably on the outside of the top ten.  Ali and Louis are no doubt 1 & 2.  The rest of the top ten you have some wiggle room. 

Ali
Louis
Holmes
Lewis
Foreman
Holyfield
Frazier
Liston
Marciano
Wlad Klitchko
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: Earl1972 on November 22, 2018, 12:02:17 AM
here we go again ::)

E
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: G_Thang on November 22, 2018, 12:12:40 AM
Ali was terrible he ate punches to win fites

 :-\

Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: Darren Avey on November 22, 2018, 10:43:21 AM
Lennox Lewis 4th?!?! You talk about Tyson beating no one, who did Lewis beat that was actually in their prime?
Holyfield 5 years past it
Tyson 13 years past it
Never fought Bowe and I don't care why or who or what, the fact is he never fought Bowe.
Vitali who wasn't yet at his peak was killing him

PUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRR LEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEE
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: old-school-lifter on November 22, 2018, 03:13:05 PM
agree with Darren Avey here

Lewis  was very overrated- the Tyson fight a shot , old Tyson who was may be 30% of prime Tyson gave prime Lewis all he could handle in the 1st round of their fight. Prime Tyson would have KO'd LEwis in under 6 rounds

never fought anybody decent in their prime
 
Lewis had a weak chin- bad one punch KO losses to McCall and Rahman

a fading Ray Mercer beat Lewis- that was such a robbery
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: Humble Narcissist on November 22, 2018, 03:31:51 PM
Tyson was definitely the most exciting heavy weight because of his one punch knockout ability but he can't be considered one of the best all time.  Too short, arms not long enough, lack of cardio to go the distance and lack of ability to avoid getting hit by the jab eliminate him from being close to the best. He was a bully who intimidated most of his opponents but when he fought big guys who could work the jab and weren't intimidated he was very average.
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: honest on November 22, 2018, 03:50:18 PM
Totally agree with the above, would not have beaten any of the top 5 when in their prime. Foreman in his prime style and height would have annihilated him at his best, style makes fights. Still probably the best brawler with the most devastating power, just as a boxer he doesn't rate.


Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: oldtimer1 on November 22, 2018, 06:46:13 PM
Every time a white man talks about boxing he pulls Rocky Marciano out of his ass.
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: razzle on November 22, 2018, 09:05:19 PM


a fading Ray Mercer beat Lewis- that was such a robbery
\\

?? mercer never beat Lewis.
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: johnny1 on November 22, 2018, 09:21:55 PM
Tyson was definitely the most exciting heavy weight because of his one punch knockout ability but he can't be considered one of the best all time.  Too short, arms not long enough, lack of cardio to go the distance and lack of ability to avoid getting hit by the jab eliminate him from being close to the best. He was a bully who intimidated most of his opponents but when he fought big guys who could work the jab and weren't intimidated he was very average.
im not sure what having “short arms” being too short  has too do with being considered one of the best of all time

Going on that logic I guess Joe Frazier, Rocky Marciano, jake lamota, etc etc were sub par fighters because they were short.

If we are talking about a PRIME mike Tyson his Cardio was more than sufficient in his PRIME (1980s) he went the distance several times and still had gas in the tank.

The being “hit” bye the jab comment is abit bizarre...the Jab never bothered him one little bit in his prime simply because he very rarely EVER got hit bye the jab (or anything else on a consistent basis) his defence was incredible in the 80s...

and that’s the the very thing most people don’t understand about him back then....it was his DEFENCE that set him apart from the top heavyweights of the era and for every punch the top fighters in the 80s would miss he’d hit them back twice as hard and fast...his foot speed and hand speed were incredible (in his prime)

A case can definitely be made about the bully angle but let’s not forget a lot of heavyweights did not fear him and still got knocked out, mikes moment of “truths” he came up short after Douglas showed the way but it’s amazing how everyone “jumped” ship on him when he started losing forgetting the fact he SINGLE handily Unified all 3 belts beating Berbick, Smith and a prime Tony tucker doing it and anilated Spinks, Bruno, Williams, etc.

After 1990 his regression was predictable...once that head movement stopped...he started catching punches his style was always based on hit...and not getting hit followed up with incredible hand speed and power, the closest thing too Tyson was Roy jones in the sense that in his prime...nobody could actually HIT HIM...and that’s what made those 2 so special...

but a lot of people don’t understand that...both of them were so good that when they actually started getting distracted, not taking the game seriously, or just flat out losing the desire too dedicate and train properly...they got hit...and when that happens consistently you’ll lose.

Everything is judged and rated after the facts and the final fact for Tyson is imo he will not be seriously considered in the top 10 all time greats because of those loses in key moments AFTER 1990...

but if we are talking about a absolutley Prime mike Tyson, the youth, defensive genius, hand speed, foot speed, power in both hands, right hand, left hook, uppercut and ruthless body shots....THAT Tyson imo was as great as ANY of the all time greats.

After 1990....well...pick a number how far down the list you’ll rate him.
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: Mothballs on November 22, 2018, 11:27:23 PM
Tyson = most overrated fighter of all time. If you knock Lewis for fighting guys past their prime, how could you defend Tyson? He fought tomato cans all the way up to his title shot, beat a journeyman paper champ to win the title, was fed a steady diet of stiffs and has-beens as champion and was soundly beaten up for ten rounds by a guy who beat no one else in his career BEFORE he went to prison. Then he self-destructed, came back and beat a few more tomato cans before running up against the one guy who wasn’t remotely intimidated by him. KO’d by Holyfield and Lewis. Best name wins vs a 45 year old fat Larry Holmes and an old 175lb champ Spinks who blew up to 205 and was too terrified to throw a punch.
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: illuminati on November 23, 2018, 12:29:26 AM
im not sure what having “short arms” being too short  has too do with being considered one of the best of all time

Going on that logic I guess Joe Frazier, Rocky Marciano, jake lamota, etc etc were sub par fighters because they were short.

If we are talking about a PRIME mike Tyson his Cardio was more than sufficient in his PRIME (1980s) he went the distance several times and still had gas in the tank.

The being “hit” bye the jab comment is abit bizarre...the Jab never bothered him one little bit in his prime simply because he very rarely EVER got hit bye the jab (or anything else on a consistent basis) his defence was incredible in the 80s...

and that’s the the very thing most people don’t understand about him back then....it was his DEFENCE that set him apart from the top heavyweights of the era and for every punch the top fighters in the 80s would miss he’d hit them back twice as hard and fast...his foot speed and hand speed were incredible (in his prime)

A case can definitely be made about the bully angle but let’s not forget a lot of heavyweights did not fear him and still got knocked out, mikes moment of “truths” he came up short after Douglas showed the way but it’s amazing how everyone “jumped” ship on him when he started losing forgetting the fact he SINGLE handily Unified all 3 belts beating Berbick, Smith and a prime Tony tucker doing it and anilated Spinks, Bruno, Williams, etc.

After 1990 his regression was predictable...once that head movement stopped...he started catching punches his style was always based on hit...and not getting hit followed up with incredible hand speed and power, the closest thing too Tyson was Roy jones in the sense that in his prime...nobody could actually HIT HIM...and that’s what made those 2 so special...

but a lot of people don’t understand that...both of them were so good that when they actually started getting distracted, not taking the game seriously, or just flat out losing the desire too dedicate and train properly...they got hit...and when that happens consistently you’ll lose.

Everything is judged and rated after the facts and the final fact for Tyson is imo he will not be seriously considered in the top 10 all time greats because of those loses in key moments AFTER 1990...

but if we are talking about a absolutley Prime mike Tyson, the youth, defensive genius, hand speed, foot speed, power in both hands, right hand, left hook, uppercut and ruthless body shots....THAT Tyson imo was as great as ANY of the all time greats.

After 1990....well...pick a number how far down the list you’ll rate him.


Very Well summed up.
The comparison with Roy Jones spot on
When both were at their peak two of the very best boxers ever to enter a ring.

Likewise their spiral downwards how quickly it happened.
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: Darren Avey on November 23, 2018, 01:44:30 AM
Tyson = most overrated fighter of all time. If you knock Lewis for fighting guys past their prime, how could you defend Tyson? He fought tomato cans all the way up to his title shot, beat a journeyman paper champ to win the title, was fed a steady diet of stiffs and has-beens as champion and was soundly beaten up for ten rounds by a guy who beat no one else in his career BEFORE he went to prison. Then he self-destructed, came back and beat a few more tomato cans before running up against the one guy who wasn’t remotely intimidated by him. KO’d by Holyfield and Lewis. Best name wins vs a 45 year old fat Larry Holmes and an old 175lb champ Spinks who blew up to 205 and was too terrified to throw a punch.

If you re gonna talk at least talk about what you know. Holmes was 38 and still had a lot of fights ahead of him including giving prime Holyfield a good fight , Tyson smashed him in 4.
Pinklon Thomas was destroyed in 6 , Thomas was a very very good fighter with a lot of talent who would ve been the man if not for Tysons existence.
SPinks beat a peak Holmes.
Tucker, Smith, Bruno, all good fighters whod rule today.

Lewis lost to Mercer in any person WHO KNOW ABOUT BOXINGS EYES,
who else? Oh wow! Tommy Morrison in 6! The same Morrison who Mercer nearly killed in 1??!!
Lionel Butler! Frans Botha! Oh oh oh I know ZELJKO MAVORVIC! ::)
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: Humble Narcissist on November 23, 2018, 04:50:13 AM
im not sure what having “short arms” being too short  has too do with being considered one of the best of all time

Going on that logic I guess Joe Frazier, Rocky Marciano, jake lamota, etc etc were sub par fighters because they were short.

If we are talking about a PRIME mike Tyson his Cardio was more than sufficient in his PRIME (1980s) he went the distance several times and still had gas in the tank.

The being “hit” bye the jab comment is abit bizarre...the Jab never bothered him one little bit in his prime simply because he very rarely EVER got hit bye the jab (or anything else on a consistent basis) his defence was incredible in the 80s...

and that’s the the very thing most people don’t understand about him back then....it was his DEFENCE that set him apart from the top heavyweights of the era and for every punch the top fighters in the 80s would miss he’d hit them back twice as hard and fast...his foot speed and hand speed were incredible (in his prime)

A case can definitely be made about the bully angle but let’s not forget a lot of heavyweights did not fear him and still got knocked out, mikes moment of “truths” he came up short after Douglas showed the way but it’s amazing how everyone “jumped” ship on him when he started losing forgetting the fact he SINGLE handily Unified all 3 belts beating Berbick, Smith and a prime Tony tucker doing it and anilated Spinks, Bruno, Williams, etc.

After 1990 his regression was predictable...once that head movement stopped...he started catching punches his style was always based on hit...and not getting hit followed up with incredible hand speed and power, the closest thing too Tyson was Roy jones in the sense that in his prime...nobody could actually HIT HIM...and that’s what made those 2 so special...

but a lot of people don’t understand that...both of them were so good that when they actually started getting distracted, not taking the game seriously, or just flat out losing the desire too dedicate and train properly...they got hit...and when that happens consistently you’ll lose.

Everything is judged and rated after the facts and the final fact for Tyson is imo he will not be seriously considered in the top 10 all time greats because of those loses in key moments AFTER 1990...

but if we are talking about a absolutley Prime mike Tyson, the youth, defensive genius, hand speed, foot speed, power in both hands, right hand, left hook, uppercut and ruthless body shots....THAT Tyson imo was as great as ANY of the all time greats.

After 1990....well...pick a number how far down the list you’ll rate him.
Tyson went the distance with bums like Mitch Green.  The jab from tall fighters like Buster Douglas and Lennox Lewis were Tyson's Krytonite.  His defense against bums was awesome in the mid '80's I agree.  A prime Tony Tucker, are you serious?  Larry Holmes as an old man.  Berbeck and "Bone Crusher" Smith along with tiny little Spinks were great exciting fights to see mediocre fighters get knocked out.

If Tyson fought a decade earlier against a prime Foreman, Ali, Frazier, Liston, etc, he would have had serious problems.  Even a prime Gerry Cooney would have given him fits.  The mid 80's was very weak for heavyweight boxers so he came around at the perfect time.  Not trying to shit on Tyson as he was my favorite boxer growing up but even he has admitted he was not close to the best of all time in interviews.  The fact that he is honest and humble makes me respect him even more.
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: oldschoolfan on November 23, 2018, 04:54:15 AM
as a long time boxing fan, to me tyson wasted his own talent, for a span of 3 years he was untouchable. by his own admission he stopped training hard. holmes probably the most underated.
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: Humble Narcissist on November 23, 2018, 04:58:06 AM
Yes, if Tyson would have stayed with Kevin Rooney for training and if Cus D'Amato hadn't died early who knows.
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: plebian on November 23, 2018, 05:40:40 AM
Tyson went the distance with bums like Mitch Green.  The jab from tall fighters like Buster Douglas and Lennox Lewis were Tyson's Krytonite.  His defense against bums was awesome in the mid '80's I agree.  A prime Tony Tucker, are you serious?  Larry Holmes as an old man.  Berbeck and "Bone Crusher" Smith along with tiny little Spinks were great exciting fights to see mediocre fighters get knocked out.

If Tyson fought a decade earlier against a prime Foreman, Ali, Frazier, Liston, etc, he would have had serious problems.  Even a prime Gerry Cooney would have given him fits.  The mid 80's was very weak for heavyweight boxers so he came around at the perfect time.  Not trying to shit on Tyson as he was my favorite boxer growing up but even he has admitted he was not close to the best of all time in interviews.  The fact that he is honest and humble makes me respect him even more.

Its hard to say the mid 80s was "weak" in the sense of talent level. Its hard to produce any solid rationale for why that would be. More realistically, the HW division was regarded as weak simply because there was a massive decline in household popularity before Tyson came along and (through brilliant marketing employed by his original management) revitalized viewing figures and became literally the 2nd most recognizable athlete in the world next to Ali. One of the reasons promoters from that era talk about is the lack of personalities. The golden era isnt just marked by great boxers - it was marked by big personalities and big rivalries.

I agree Ali and Foreman would've given tyson trouble. Ali mostly because he was durable, his most underrated quality that allowed him to have a 2nd career Not so much Liston and certainly not Cooney. Cooney has been dropped by guys who aren't even known as punchers.

While i think most people overrate Tyson because of the success of how he was marketed, I think you on the other hand are underrating him in a bit of an exaggerated manner. He would do well in any era, because he was such a physical specimen and because of the systematic development D'amato put he through.
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: Mothballs on November 23, 2018, 10:03:03 AM
Its hard to say the mid 80s was "weak" in the sense of talent level. Its hard to produce any solid rationale for why that would be. More realistically, the HW division was regarded as weak simply because there was a massive decline in household popularity before Tyson came along and (through brilliant marketing employed by his original management) revitalized viewing figures and became literally the 2nd most recognizable athlete in the world next to Ali. One of the reasons promoters from that era talk about is the lack of personalities. The golden era isnt just marked by great boxers - it was marked by big personalities and big rivalries.

I agree Ali and Foreman would've given tyson trouble. Ali mostly because he was durable, his most underrated quality that allowed him to have a 2nd career Not so much Liston and certainly not Cooney. Cooney has been dropped by guys who aren't even known as punchers.

While i think most people overrate Tyson because of the success of how he was marketed, I think you on the other hand are underrating him in a bit of an exaggerated manner. He would do well in any era, because he was such a physical specimen and because of the systematic development D'amato put he through.
The way you know the late 80s was weak is that other than Larry Holmes, no fighter from the era makes anyone’s list of top 50 heavyweights. So basically, Tyson beat one ‘top heavyweight’ at the tail end of his career and a bunch of journeymen. His record against top heavyweights is a staggering 1-4. To think he could lose to a bum like Buster Douglas and yet somehow have beaten Muhammad Ali is hilarious.
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: Darren Avey on November 23, 2018, 10:12:59 AM
To think that was peak Mental and physical Tyson V DOuglas is hilarious.
There are accounts of him drinking vodka, snorting coke and fucking prozzys 24 hours before the fight! And that's not excuses from his team that hotel staff, security guys etc who witnessed it.
It was a long time ago but I remember one security guy who saw the way Tyson was behaving put money on Douglas.
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: Humble Narcissist on November 23, 2018, 10:57:39 AM
Its hard to say the mid 80s was "weak" in the sense of talent level. Its hard to produce any solid rationale for why that would be. More realistically, the HW division was regarded as weak simply because there was a massive decline in household popularity before Tyson came along and (through brilliant marketing employed by his original management) revitalized viewing figures and became literally the 2nd most recognizable athlete in the world next to Ali. One of the reasons promoters from that era talk about is the lack of personalities. The golden era isnt just marked by great boxers - it was marked by big personalities and big rivalries.

I agree Ali and Foreman would've given tyson trouble. Ali mostly because he was durable, his most underrated quality that allowed him to have a 2nd career Not so much Liston and certainly not Cooney. Cooney has been dropped by guys who aren't even known as punchers.

While i think most people overrate Tyson because of the success of how he was marketed, I think you on the other hand are underrating him in a bit of an exaggerated manner. He would do well in any era, because he was such a physical specimen and because of the systematic development D'amato put he through.
Too bad we can't take all the fighters from the past and have them fight each other in their prime.  Imagine some of the fights:

Frazier vs Tyson (this would be a bloodbath)

Ali vs Hollyfield

Lennox Lewis vs Ken Norton

Sonny Liston vs Riddick Bowe

and how about Tyson vs Jack Dempsey
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: old-school-lifter on November 25, 2018, 04:29:03 PM
im not sure what having “short arms” being too short  has too do with being considered one of the best of all time

Going on that logic I guess Joe Frazier, Rocky Marciano, jake lamota, etc etc were sub par fighters because they were short.

If we are talking about a PRIME mike Tyson his Cardio was more than sufficient in his PRIME (1980s) he went the distance several times and still had gas in the tank.

The being “hit” bye the jab comment is abit bizarre...the Jab never bothered him one little bit in his prime simply because he very rarely EVER got hit bye the jab (or anything else on a consistent basis) his defence was incredible in the 80s...

and that’s the the very thing most people don’t understand about him back then....it was his DEFENCE that set him apart from the top heavyweights of the era and for every punch the top fighters in the 80s would miss he’d hit them back twice as hard and fast...his foot speed and hand speed were incredible (in his prime)

A case can definitely be made about the bully angle but let’s not forget a lot of heavyweights did not fear him and still got knocked out, mikes moment of “truths” he came up short after Douglas showed the way but it’s amazing how everyone “jumped” ship on him when he started losing forgetting the fact he SINGLE handily Unified all 3 belts beating Berbick, Smith and a prime Tony tucker doing it and anilated Spinks, Bruno, Williams, etc.

After 1990 his regression was predictable...once that head movement stopped...he started catching punches his style was always based on hit...and not getting hit followed up with incredible hand speed and power, the closest thing too Tyson was Roy jones in the sense that in his prime...nobody could actually HIT HIM...and that’s what made those 2 so special...

but a lot of people don’t understand that...both of them were so good that when they actually started getting distracted, not taking the game seriously, or just flat out losing the desire too dedicate and train properly...they got hit...and when that happens consistently you’ll lose.

Everything is judged and rated after the facts and the final fact for Tyson is imo he will not be seriously considered in the top 10 all time greats because of those loses in key moments AFTER 1990...

but if we are talking about a absolutley Prime mike Tyson, the youth, defensive genius, hand speed, foot speed, power in both hands, right hand, left hook, uppercut and ruthless body shots....THAT Tyson imo was as great as ANY of the all time greats.

After 1990....well...pick a number how far down the list you’ll rate him.

great and accurate analysis right here

prime Tyson-  very good defense, head movement, hard to hit with a clean shot and had a great chin , also forgotten were his very fast hand and foot speed and ability to counterpunch
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: Humble Narcissist on November 26, 2018, 03:11:40 AM
Watch the Teddy Atlas interview with Joe Rogan on Youtube.  He completely exposes Tyson for what he really was, a physical phenom with no self discipline.  Anytime the fight didn't go exactly as planned he lost.  0-5 all time in real fights.  Evander Hollyfield was a much better boxer and a true ring warrior.
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: Darren Avey on November 26, 2018, 04:49:30 AM
Watch the Teddy Atlas interview with Joe Rogan on Youtube.  He completely exposes Tyson for what he really was, a physical phenom with no self discipline.  Anytime the fight didn't go exactly as planned he lost.  0-5 all time in real fights.  Evander Hollyfield was a much better boxer and a true ring warrior.

ATlas is a bitter sack of shit with a grudge against Tyson
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: Humble Narcissist on November 26, 2018, 08:44:25 AM
ATlas is a bitter sack of shit with a grudge against Tyson
And he admits that in the interview.
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: Earl1972 on November 26, 2018, 07:08:59 PM
agree with Darren Avey here

Lewis  was very overrated- the Tyson fight a shot , old Tyson who was may be 30% of prime Tyson gave prime Lewis all he could handle in the 1st round of their fight. Prime Tyson would have KO'd LEwis in under 6 rounds

never fought anybody decent in their prime
 
Lewis had a weak chin- bad one punch KO losses to McCall and Rahman

a fading Ray Mercer beat Lewis- that was such a robbery

lewis knocked out bowe in the olympics

he avenged his losses in dominant fashion

he is better than every 80's and 90's heavyweight

tyson was scared to fight him and ducked him for years, same thing with holyfield

that says it all

E
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: Humble Narcissist on November 27, 2018, 03:41:35 AM
lewis knocked out bowe in the olympics

he avenged his losses in dominant fashion

he is better than every 80's and 90's heavyweight

tyson was scared to fight him and ducked him for years, same thing with holyfield

that says it all

E
Yes and the people in the boxing industry consider him one of if not THE most underrated champs in history.
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: Danimal77 on November 29, 2018, 10:06:42 AM
Anyone who doesn't have Ali and Joe Louis in the top two slots is most likely on the spectrum.

Joe Frazier needs to be up there as well.
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: Humble Narcissist on November 29, 2018, 11:13:32 AM
Frasier should have won 2 of the 3 fights against Ali.
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: AbrahamG on November 29, 2018, 05:12:04 PM
Yes and the people in the boxing industry consider him one of if not THE most underrated champs in history.

Exactly this.  Plus, the fighters of the 90's era knew what was up.  David Tua was a beast at the time Lennox fought him.  Lennox touched his body in round 2 and the fight was taken out of Tua.  Tua had just fought Ike Ibeabuchi in probably the best 10 round heavyweight I've ever seen.  Lennox did the same to Holyfield early in their first fight.  He practically lifted him off the ground with a body shot.  Scott Ledux, a tough guy from the 70's & 80's said he did a very light sparring session with Lennox.  He said Lennox jabbed him in the arm and he wanted to cry.  Razor Ruddock went 19 toe to toe rounds with a still young, very good Mike Tyson.  Lewis obliterated him in under two rounds.  Golota just got done dominating Bowe twice.  Guess what?  First round annihilation.  He ruined Michael Grant, who was looking like the real deal until Lennox got him.  An old and woefully unprepared Lewis almost took Vitali Klitchko's eye.  He may have been down four rounds to two (I had it even) but make no mistake, Vitali was done.  He was going to be decapitated in round 7.  Lennox Lewis is the best heavyweight since Larry Holmes.  Period. 
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: hardgainerj on November 29, 2018, 06:26:46 PM
prime damato tyson finishes both fury and wilder
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: DooM_ on November 29, 2018, 10:17:23 PM
Exactly this.  Plus, the fighters of the 90's era knew what was up.  David Tua was a beast at the time Lennox fought him.  Lennox touched his body in round 2 and the fight was taken out of Tua.  Tua had just fought Ike Ibeabuchi in probably the best 10 round heavyweight I've ever seen.  Lennox did the same to Holyfield early in their first fight.  He practically lifted him off the ground with a body shot.  Scott Ledux, a tough guy from the 70's & 80's said he did a very light sparring session with Lennox.  He said Lennox jabbed him in the arm and he wanted to cry.  Razor Ruddock went 19 toe to toe rounds with a still young, very good Mike Tyson.  Lewis obliterated him in under two rounds.  Golota just got done dominating Bowe twice.  Guess what?  First round annihilation.  He ruined Michael Grant, who was looking like the real deal until Lennox got him.  An old and woefully unprepared Lewis almost took Vitali Klitchko's eye.  He may have been down four rounds to two (I had it even) but make no mistake, Vitali was done.  He was going to be decapitated in round 7.  Lennox Lewis is the best heavyweight since Larry Holmes.  Period. 

lennox lewis . . . all he had going for him was size , but boxing skills ??
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: Humble Narcissist on November 30, 2018, 04:51:47 AM
Exactly this.  Plus, the fighters of the 90's era knew what was up.  David Tua was a beast at the time Lennox fought him.  Lennox touched his body in round 2 and the fight was taken out of Tua.  Tua had just fought Ike Ibeabuchi in probably the best 10 round heavyweight I've ever seen.  Lennox did the same to Holyfield early in their first fight.  He practically lifted him off the ground with a body shot.  Scott Ledux, a tough guy from the 70's & 80's said he did a very light sparring session with Lennox.  He said Lennox jabbed him in the arm and he wanted to cry.  Razor Ruddock went 19 toe to toe rounds with a still young, very good Mike Tyson.  Lewis obliterated him in under two rounds.  Golota just got done dominating Bowe twice.  Guess what?  First round annihilation.  He ruined Michael Grant, who was looking like the real deal until Lennox got him.  An old and woefully unprepared Lewis almost took Vitali Klitchko's eye.  He may have been down four rounds to two (I had it even) but make no mistake, Vitali was done.  He was going to be decapitated in round 7.  Lennox Lewis is the best heavyweight since Larry Holmes.  Period. 
In the 90's me and my friends always thought Lewis was ducking all the other champs. It wasn't until later that I found out the other guys were ducking him.
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: Darren Avey on November 30, 2018, 10:25:46 AM
Exactly this.  Plus, the fighters of the 90's era knew what was up.  David Tua was a beast at the time Lennox fought him.  Lennox touched his body in round 2 and the fight was taken out of Tua.  Tua had just fought Ike Ibeabuchi in probably the best 10 round heavyweight I've ever seen.  Lennox did the same to Holyfield early in their first fight.  He practically lifted him off the ground with a body shot.  Scott Ledux, a tough guy from the 70's & 80's said he did a very light sparring session with Lennox.  He said Lennox jabbed him in the arm and he wanted to cry.  Razor Ruddock went 19 toe to toe rounds with a still young, very good Mike Tyson.  Lewis obliterated him in under two rounds.  Golota just got done dominating Bowe twice.  Guess what?  First round annihilation.  He ruined Michael Grant, who was looking like the real deal until Lennox got him.  An old and woefully unprepared Lewis almost took Vitali Klitchko's eye.  He may have been down four rounds to two (I had it even) but make no mistake, Vitali was done.  He was going to be decapitated in round 7.  Lennox Lewis is the best heavyweight since Larry Holmes.  Period.  
Tua hadnt "just" fought Ike!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tua Lewis was in 2000, Tua Ike was in 1997!
Also no one who had a clue about boxing thought Grant was the next big thing. He wasnt much more than a bum.
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: Earl1972 on November 30, 2018, 01:21:42 PM
lennox lewis . . . all he had going for him was size , but boxing skills ??

what was wrong with his boxing skills?  he beat every single one of his opponents including guys just as big or bigger than him

E
Title: Re: 31 years ago today Nov 22 1986, Mike Tyson becomes the youngest HW champ
Post by: AbrahamG on November 30, 2018, 05:26:48 PM
Tua hadnt "just" fought Ike!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tua Lewis was in 2000, Tua Ike was in 1997!
Also no one who had a clue about boxing thought Grant was the next big thing. He wasnt much more than a bum.


Still believe Tua's only loss at prior to Lewis was Ike.  My point still stands.  Michael Grant was a legit #1 contender.  He slowly fought his way up the ladder.  Lewis just ruined him.  A prepared Lennox Lewis who feared his opponent was nearly unbeatable, in any era.