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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Powerlift66 on February 25, 2019, 01:58:05 PM
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https://www.t-nation.com/pharma/tip-testosterone-and-prostate-cancer-the-facts
Does Testosterone Cause Prostate Cancer?
Back in the 1940's, doctors didn't know much about prostate cancer (or any cancer, for that matter). However, they noted that men with metastatic prostate cancer lived a bit longer when they were castrated.
I should rephrase that. They noted that ONE man with metastatic prostate cancer lived longer when he was castrated (1). That's right, the effects of castration on one poor bastard's prostate cancer led several generations of doctors to assume that it was testosterone itself that promoted the disease. Mind boggling, isn't it?
The Truth
Men with low testosterone don't have anything to fear from TRT (testosterone replacement therapy). It won't increase their risk of developing prostate cancer. Consider the analysis of more than a quarter of a million records of men in Sweden that was released at the annual meeting of the American Urological Association in San Diego, California in 2016.
The researchers found that men who'd been prescribed testosterone for longer than a year not only had no overall increased risk of prostate cancer, but their risk of aggressive disease had been reduced by 50 percent.
And this is only the most recent of many studies that squelch the myth that TRT causes prostate cancer. Researchers in the United Kingdom looked at 1400 men who had received testosterone replacement therapy for up to 20 years and they found only 14 cases of prostate cancer over the course of the study (2).
This prompted the co-author of the study, Dr. Malcolm Carruthers, medical director at the Center for Men's Health in London, to state:
"This myth about testosterone replacement therapy being linked to prostate cancer has been rooted deep in medical consciousness for over 60 years, but this paper says no. Testosterone treatment is actually good for the prostate, not bad."
Related: 8 Lies About Testosterone That Need to Die
Related: The Complete Guide to T Replacement
References
Morgentaler, A., "Testosterone and prostate cancer: an historical perspective on a modern myth," Eur Urol. 2006 Nov;50(5):935-9.
Mark R. Feneley MD, FRCS (Urol), Malcolm Carruthers MD, "Is Testosterone Treatment Good for the Prostate? Study of Safety during Long-Term Treatment," The Journal of Sexual Medicine, 06 June 2012.
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https://www.t-nation.com/pharma/tip-testosterone-and-prostate-cancer-the-facts
Does Testosterone Cause Prostate Cancer?
Back in the 1940's, doctors didn't know much about prostate cancer (or any cancer, for that matter). However, they noted that men with metastatic prostate cancer lived a bit longer when they were castrated.
I should rephrase that. They noted that ONE man with metastatic prostate cancer lived longer when he was castrated (1). That's right, the effects of castration on one poor bastard's prostate cancer led several generations of doctors to assume that it was testosterone itself that promoted the disease. Mind boggling, isn't it?
The Truth
Men with low testosterone don't have anything to fear from TRT (testosterone replacement therapy). It won't increase their risk of developing prostate cancer. Consider the analysis of more than a quarter of a million records of men in Sweden that was released at the annual meeting of the American Urological Association in San Diego, California in 2016.
The researchers found that men who'd been prescribed testosterone for longer than a year not only had no overall increased risk of prostate cancer, but their risk of aggressive disease had been reduced by 50 percent.
And this is only the most recent of many studies that squelch the myth that TRT causes prostate cancer. Researchers in the United Kingdom looked at 1400 men who had received testosterone replacement therapy for up to 20 years and they found only 14 cases of prostate cancer over the course of the study (2).
This prompted the co-author of the study, Dr. Malcolm Carruthers, medical director at the Center for Men's Health in London, to state:
"This myth about testosterone replacement therapy being linked to prostate cancer has been rooted deep in medical consciousness for over 60 years, but this paper says no. Testosterone treatment is actually good for the prostate, not bad."
Related: 8 Lies About Testosterone That Need to Die
Related: The Complete Guide to T Replacement
References
Morgentaler, A., "Testosterone and prostate cancer: an historical perspective on a modern myth," Eur Urol. 2006 Nov;50(5):935-9.
Mark R. Feneley MD, FRCS (Urol), Malcolm Carruthers MD, "Is Testosterone Treatment Good for the Prostate? Study of Safety during Long-Term Treatment," The Journal of Sexual Medicine, 06 June 2012.
People can look it up for themselves, but this correlates to studies/articles that show increased estrogen, NOT testosterone, is what triggers the prostate cancer gene.
When you think about it, it makes total sense....
Men typically get prostate cancer as they get 50+. As you age your testosterone keeps declining, but your estrogen levels remain, and for many actually increase due to poor nutrition and overall health. They are left with the reverse balance so to speak of T/E than when they were younger.........and prostate cancer free!
If you're going to do TRT, you need to monitor your estrogen levels as well and take an AI. After reading those articles and studies I got my estradiol checked for the first time this past December. It was around 50 IIRC. Ideal is 20-30 for men from what I've read.
Even if you are not on TRT, I believe all men should have their testosterone and their estradiol checked when getting regular blood/lipid panels done. Knowing might save your life.
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Great news for us muscle men.
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Testosterone Replacement and Cancer
https://www.webmd.com/prostate-cancer/video/testosterone-replacement-prostate-cancer
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Testosterone Replacement and Cancer
https://www.webmd.com/prostate-cancer/video/testosterone-replacement-prostate-cancer
I'm not going to sit here and say he knows nothing, but just because a Dr. is a urologist does not make them an expert on TRT. I won't get into my experience with being sent to one of these specialists other than that he was a condescending asshole who was totally ignorant on the matter....this was 15+ years ago, so they're probably better now.
The guy in the link you posted starts blabbing about liver disease....that is horseshit. The only study that has ever shown an issue with liver and JUST testosterone is from many many years ago where a study was done with oral Methyl Testosterone which affected liver and kidney bloodwork results. This was due to it having to do a second pass through the liver, and also likely taking it daily vs. weekly/bi-weekly could have been a factor as well?
That one study is the reason kidney and liver issues are mentioned on the insert of every steroid on the market. If you look up the listed possible side effects of long-term cortico-steroids (predinisone) and estrogen (yes, estrogen is a "steroid") they are very similar to testosterone "steroids"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steroid_hormone
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best supplement for prostate cancer pumpkin seed oil
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best supplement for prostate cancer pumpkin seed oil
Prostate cancer, or prostate health and prevention? I'm interested to know more if you have some links that got you to feel that way about it Tres. ???
Links or not, do you feel it is superior and a replacement to saw palmetto....or just an addition?
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Interesting how there is so much disagreement among doctors.
Studies have to be examined closely to see if there is bias or misinterpretation of results.
It's been accepted for quite a while that TRT does not directly cause prostate cancer.
The concern was that TRT would accelerate the growth of an existing cancer.
Prostate cancer is normally a slow growing cancer. Were other types of cancers addressed in this particular study?
Then you have other issues such as cholesterol, heart disease, testicular atrophy, etc.
Side effects are generally doseage dependent. The higher the dose the more side effects.
Prescription TRT is only to bring you to a "normal" level. How many men are truly satisfied with normal?
Certainly if you have a bonafide low test level you should consider TRT. How many 30-50 year old men really need TRT? It's laughable.
How many guys have you heard say they are taking, in addition to the prescription TRT, other steroids on the side? TRT for them is just a way to get legal steroids.
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A little history. The US dominated Olympic lifting then the Russians out of no where kicked our ass. The US coach and the Russian coach were in a bar after one meet and the truth came out. The Russians were injecting straight testosterone and a lot of it. Many of them had to be catheterized because of enlarged prostates. The American coach came back to the US with this information and Dr. Ziegler who had a hand in making the first anabolic steroid Dianabol. A form of testosterone that had more anabolic attributes than androgenic to avoid problems like enlarged prostates.
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A little history. The US dominated Olympic lifting then the Russians out of no where kicked our ass. The US coach and the Russian coach were in a bar after one meet and the truth came out. The Russians were injecting straight testosterone and a lot of it. Many of them had to be catheterized because of enlarged prostates. The American coach came back to the US with this information and Dr. Ziegler who had a hand in making the first anabolic steroid Dianabol. A form of testosterone that had more anabolic attributes than androgenic to avoid problems like enlarged prostates.
:D
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Great news for us muscle men.
:o
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Interesting book.
Many of those later Mr. A's had serious mental issues too. Steroid use seems to increase the severity of personality and mental problems.
Many bodybuilders have ego/emotional issues to start with and the drugs increase them. They become addicts and ruin themselves physically with the drugs.
Meeko had serious lyme disease and killed himself.
Mentzer was schizophrenic, smoked like a fiend, had terrible lifestyle habits, family history of early death by heart failure. Risk factors that were only magnified by his drug use and poor habits.
Michalak was a mental case and the drugs made him even more mental. A whackjob.
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So are the drugs bad?
If you use TRT you will get cancer or you wont?
Do we trust the doctors and their research or the internet?
Is castration* our best bet at avoiding cancer?
*Even though he has no children we should still recommend castration for Howard.
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:o
Lotta old dudes on that there list.....many were still in great shape for their ages when they died.
So are the drugs bad?
If you use TRT you will get cancer or you wont?
Do we trust the doctors and their research or the internet?
Is castration* our best bet at avoiding cancer?
*Even though he has no children we should still recommend castration for Howard.
If you are a human being and live life you will get cancer or you won't?
Dr's and researchers don't even know the answers or agree on interpretations of the research or other Dr.'s.
Life is a risk......we only know that embracing and enduring that risk ends.
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Prostate cancer, or prostate health and prevention? I'm interested to know more if you have some links that got you to feel that way about it Tres. ???
Links or not, do you feel it is superior and a replacement to saw palmetto....or just an addition?
study
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2809240/
a guy with prostate cancer told me about pumpkin seed oil 3 years ago (I was 32) he beat it but he went Seal Team Six on the cancer (diet, health, supplements) he said why risk it when it is so cheap and effective
i take saw palmetto and pumpkin seed oil daily (standard dose)
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study
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2809240/
a guy with prostate cancer told me about pumpkin seed oil 3 years ago (I was 32) he beat it but he went Seal Team Six on the cancer (diet, health, supplements) he said why risk it when it is so cheap and effective
i take saw palmetto and pumpkin seed oil daily (standard dose)
Thanks!
I'm just on here for a little bit tonight, but will read it.
Brands you recommend using and avoiding?
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Thanks!
I'm just on here for a little bit tonight, but will read it.
Brands you recommend using and avoiding?
i take all NOW products since i get them on amazon and they seem to be a solid brand
https://www.amazon.com/Now-Foods-Pumpkin-Soft-gels-200-Count/dp/B00SLY85LI/ref=pd_sim_121_18?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00SLY85LI&pd_rd_r=640b699a-3b07-11e9-bd63-17b75475049f&pd_rd_w=6nHSh&pd_rd_wg=oQd7m&pf_rd_p=90485860-83e9-4fd9-b838-b28a9b7fda30&pf_rd_r=YFNH55V5EKAWHBKKZQ3M&psc=1&refRID=YFNH55V5EKAWHBKKZQ3M
with taking health supplements it makes you more attune to all things health "wear sunscreen, get blood work" etc etc
being healthy is a compounding effect and the litte things add up and keep you accountable etc - strange why how i look at it
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i take all NOW products since i get them on amazon and they seem to be a solid brand
https://www.amazon.com/Now-Foods-Pumpkin-Soft-gels-200-Count/dp/B00SLY85LI/ref=pd_sim_121_18?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00SLY85LI&pd_rd_r=640b699a-3b07-11e9-bd63-17b75475049f&pd_rd_w=6nHSh&pd_rd_wg=oQd7m&pf_rd_p=90485860-83e9-4fd9-b838-b28a9b7fda30&pf_rd_r=YFNH55V5EKAWHBKKZQ3M&psc=1&refRID=YFNH55V5EKAWHBKKZQ3M
with taking health supplements it makes you more attune to all things health "wear sunscreen, get blood work" etc etc
being healthy is a compounding effect and the litte things add up and keep you accountable etc - strange why how i look at it
TY Tres! I actually use quite a few of Now's stuff already so that's was any easy sell to me. Nothing but good products at a great price with everything I've used by them.
I get bloodwork drawn this friday so I'll know what difference changing my TRT does did, and how adding anastrazole is going. I'll add the pumpkin seed in and see if there's any change with PSA next time
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TY Tres! I actually use quite a few of Now's stuff already so that's was any easy sell to me. Nothing but good products at a great price with everything I've used by them.
I get bloodwork drawn this friday so I'll know what difference changing my TRT does did, and how adding anastrazole is going. I'll add the pumpkin seed in and see if there's any change with PSA next time
good stuff - keep us all posted on doses for test and arimidex -
good luck with the blood work
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good stuff - keep us all posted on doses for test and arimidex -
good luck with the blood work
I went into great detail about it in The Italian Lifter's over 40 thread.....it should still be in the first 2-4 pages of this G&O section. My appointment with the Dr. to go over it is two weeks after friday, and I'll try to remember to post an update there. Who knows, maybe it'll turn out everything I said there about TRT is wrong and I'm about to die? I feel better though ;D
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https://www.healthline.com/health/prostate-cancer/testosterone-and-prostate-cancer
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What you need to be worried about is stress.
Low stress and you give yourself the best chance of living healthy. Particularly males, women seem to live of the stuff lol.
Ive grown up around senior exec positioned people and jn their 60s they are either dead, got cancer, had cancer. None were on TRT.
Meanwhile low stress but fat, poor diet, no exercise and still walking around at 80.
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My opinion based on studies i have researched and read, TRT user group does have a higher percentage of men with enlarged prostate than the general population but this doesn't transpire into users having instances of prostate cancer, if anything they are lower whether this is due to TRT use I cannot establish due to lack of evidence.
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https://www.letsgetchecked.com/articles/high-estrogen-in-men/
Notice the chart labeled "life cycles of estrogen and testosterone" in this article, and how it relates to what I've stated about elevated estrogen with lowered test levels being a likely culprit in prostate cancer coming about typically around 50+ for males.
There are studies, and articles out there....
https://prostate.net/articles/why-is-estrogen-important-for-men
"Estrogen plays an important role in men’s health. Too little estrogen can predispose men to osteoporosis and lead to bone fractures. Slightly elevated levels double a man’s risk of stroke and even higher incidence of coronary artery disease. Men with higher blood estrogen levels may be at higher risk for enlarged prostate or prostate cancer, especially if they have low free testosterone blood levels."
No one really knows, but I firmly believe at 40-45+ all males should be getting total testosterone, free testosterone, free testosterone %, AND estradiol levels checked. If insurance covers it, IGF-1 would be good to know as well, as it can add fuel to the fire when it comes to cancer cell growth.
What you do with those lab results information is up to each person, but it's all good to know. 8)
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Bumped
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What you need to be worried about is stress.
Low stress and you give yourself the best chance of living healthy. Particularly males, women seem to live of the stuff lol.
Ive grown up around senior exec positioned people and jn their 60s they are either dead, got cancer, had cancer. None were on TRT.
Meanwhile low stress but fat, poor diet, no exercise and still walking around at 80.
This. Stress is really the biggest killer whether it causes cancer or heart disease. People working high stress jobs 12 or more hours a day thinking they are going to live it up when they retire at 65 are going to be in for a surprise. They are either dead or in very bad shape.
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Yep.
I can say my natural test issues were directly related to extreme stress events. I had no issues at all until stress became to much to cope with and then it was like a nose dive. Fucking horrid.
My Dad endured a high stress event which triggered cancer. He passed away and it was so stressful for my grandmother that she got the exact same cancer and passed away 1yr later.
About 1-2yrs after that my own stress levels peaked and i fell in a heap and then Mum ended up in hospital with a massive tumour. Ssssoo yeah, seen it and lived it first hand and it was an epihany moment.
I did a 180 with my high salary, high pressure career. Changed my personal life dramatically. Went on trt. I have no stress. Extremely happy. Lots of love to give and lots is received back.
We underplay how much our life impacts our lifespan. Instead we say its the deep fried chips, its the hamburger, its the alcohol etc. Should we really believe that a fucking hamburger once a week plays more danger to our health than being a stress bomb every day for 60yrs?
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True TRT doses, normally are fine and very safe. Since going on, at age 50 (2 years ago), Ive gotten bloods done many times.
Now Im talking 100-125 mg a week. (Hard to get it exact between line ticks on pin).
I trained straight from 1978 - 2016 natty, so I think I have my "natural base". ::)
I see people say "Im on TRT at 500 mg a week) laughable.
Lots of kids int their 20's, on TRT for life, again, laughable.
My last bloods done in DEC, my numbers were never better (health markers) lipids, kidneys, PSA, etc. Test is normal high (700-ish) was 253 when I began.
(After 11 years on statins, that just wrecks peoples natural test production). Testosterone is made in cholesterol.
Now off statins, and on low does TRT, markers have never been better. (I do natty "lipid support" supps that help in that area).
Do legit TRT, get bloods a few times a year, you'll be good to go. The cardio/calcium scans are only 100.00 these days (shows calcium build-up and inflammation in heart / arteries).
Got mine scheduled for May...
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You're doing it right, Power.
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Still takin drugs...
How about accepting and treating your body the way it was designed?
Any time you upset the natural balance there are going to be negatives, no matter what you try to convince yourself of.
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This. Stress is really the biggest killer whether it causes cancer or heart disease. People working high stress jobs 12 or more hours a day thinking they are going to live it up when they retire at 65 are going to be in for a surprise. They are either dead or in very bad shape.
This is why Getbig is so worthwhile.
It's a stress release.
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Prostate cancer, or prostate health and prevention? I'm interested to know more if you have some links that got you to feel that way about it Tres. ???
Links or not, do you feel it is superior and a replacement to saw palmetto....or just an addition?
Saw palmetto is highly disregarded by many doctors on the leading edge of TRT and prostate conditions. It doesn't reduce swelling of the actual prostate or prevents any problems or conditions. It simply lowers the amount of actual PSA levels that can be detected. It gives a false reading. This can interfere with a true PSA reading and possibly cause a doctor to miss an early warning sign of prostate cancer. Most sport docs will require a patient to be off saw palmetto for at least 30 days prior to testing in order to get an accurate reading. Finasteride has the same effects on PSA readings too.
The TRT, HRT, anti aging clinics down here, almost all of them discourage their patients from using saw palmetto. Just a CYA on down the road.
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High amounts of vitamin c will lower physical and mental stress, high cortisol, and high blood pressure.
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i have to agree with the stress theory on most everything shitty.... hell,,, even my gray hairs are disappearing... forRealZ...
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Yep.
I can say my natural test issues were directly related to extreme stress events. I had no issues at all until stress became to much to cope with and then it was like a nose dive. Fucking horrid.
My Dad endured a high stress event which triggered cancer. He passed away and it was so stressful for my grandmother that she got the exact same cancer and passed away 1yr later.
About 1-2yrs after that my own stress levels peaked and i fell in a heap and then Mum ended up in hospital with a massive tumour. Ssssoo yeah, seen it and lived it first hand and it was an epihany moment.
I did a 180 with my high salary, high pressure career. Changed my personal life dramatically. Went on trt. I have no stress. Extremely happy. Lots of love to give and lots is received back.
We underplay how much our life impacts our lifespan. Instead we say its the deep fried chips, its the hamburger, its the alcohol etc. Should we really believe that a fucking hamburger once a week plays more danger to our health than being a stress bomb every day for 60yrs?
good post - stress is a huge killer.
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i have to agree with the stress theory on most everything shitty.... hell,,, even my gray hairs are disappearing... forRealZ...
Stress has been strongly correlated with the six leading causes of death. It's the secret killer. Chronic stress will do anyone in.
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Stress has been strongly correlated with the six leading causes of death. It's the secret killer. Chronic stress will do anyone in.
Most people would do themselves a great service by down shifting their lives and eliminating most of their stress.