Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: ratherbebig on March 03, 2019, 04:00:24 PM
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"In 1986, Sergio survived being shot by his then-wife Arleen Garrett. He sustained 5 bullet wounds to his abdomen from a '.38' special."
(https://www.greatestphysiques.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/sergio-oliva-bicep-692x1024.jpg)
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(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51LkticewvL.jpg).
It says it right there on the book. Those fuckers are prize winners.
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You are not a real BBer until your significant other shoots at you.
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(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/518wQKKTxVL._SX363_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)
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Regarding to Rob Kennedy of Muscle Mag Int. the best/ most develop mid-section belongs to Vince Gironda ....
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Regarding to Rob Kennedy of Muscle Mag Int. the best/ most develop mid-section belongs to Vince Gironda ....
Ah yes...Guru Gironda, "Train for shape and size will surely follow".
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"In 1986, Sergio survived being shot by his then-wife Arleen Garrett. He sustained 5 bullet wounds to his abdomen from a '.38' special."
(https://www.greatestphysiques.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/sergio-oliva-bicep-692x1024.jpg)
Best? ??? Strongest..... 8)
You are not a real BBer until your significant other shoots at you.
Bertil Fox misread this secret to BBing success. :-\
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(https://www.nutrimuscle.com/hebergeur_images/Upload/images/neuvillee9.jpg)
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Ahmed Haidar
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(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51LkticewvL.jpg).
It says it right there on the book. Those fuckers are prize winners.
That ugly fucker died recently if I'm not mistaken.
Being skinny fat and have amazing abs, thats god's way of irony...
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Thierry Pastel (sp)
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Thierry Pastel (sp)
came here to type just that. thanks.
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"In 1986, Sergio survived being shot by his then-wife Arleen Garrett. He sustained 5 bullet wounds to his abdomen from a '.38' special."
(https://www.greatestphysiques.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/sergio-oliva-bicep-692x1024.jpg)
Basil altered this photo of Sergio, Oliva told him to FO, because Basil didn't have $ 1000 to pay for his posing.
Moron was expecting free posing from Sergio.
Simply, FAKE photo !.
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Sergio was shot once in the stomach at point blank with a .38 plus P 158 grain semi wadcutter which had a good reputation as a one shot stopper according to FBI stats. He also was shot once in the arm in Cuba.
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Basil altered this photo of Sergio, Oliva told him to FO, because Basil didn't have $ 1000 to pay for his posing.
Moron was expecting free posing from Sergio.
Simply, FAKE photo !.
You really should be banned from Getbig. You are a total bullshitter and exaggerate and distort the facts.
Sergio was in Sydney in 1982. He posed at the Castle Hill RSL Club. He was a sensation. I even had a new
Rollieflex SLX to shoot with. I didn't get any shots because it was too dark in the auditorium. He wanted
$1000 for a photo shoot but I declined because he wasn't in his best shape and also had torn a triceps.
He trained at our gym a few times and we had a party for him and Arleen. We all liked the huge guy.
The photo is not fake. I merely took his exceptional physique and put a new background behind him. Took ages to do.
I like the result and I imagine he would have, too, had he seen it. Might be the best physique ever there.
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You really should be banned from Getbig. You are a total bullshitter and exaggerate and distort the facts.
Sergio was in Sydney in 1982. He posed at the Castle Hill RSL Club. He was a sensation. I even had a new
Rollieflex SLX to shoot with. I didn't get any shots because it was too dark in the auditorium. He wanted
$1000 for a photo shoot but I declined because he wasn't in his best shape and also had torn a triceps.
He trained at our gym a few times and we had a party for him and Arleen. We all liked the huge guy.
The photo is not fake. I merely took his exceptional physique and put a new background behind him. Took ages to do.
I like the result and I imagine he would have, too, had he seen it. Might be the best physique ever there.
Unreal how massive his arms were, can only wonder what he would look like on todays many wonder drugs. What was he like in person? Cartoon like I suspect, these dudes really do surprise you when you see them in the flesh.
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Sergio was shot once in the stomach at point blank with a .38 plus P 158 grain semi wadcutter which had a good reputation as a one shot stopper according to FBI stats. He also was shot once in the arm in Cuba.
bulletproof arms too :o
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Ahmad Haidar AKA "Abzilla:"
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Any of you other old folks remember the weider ad that had a side ab crunch pose of Munzer before he went crazy with the drugs and teh died? It was an insane shot at the time :o
Odd that in searching "Andreas Munzer abs pic", one of the results was a Jay Cutler pic. Google might need to do some re-algorithmicizing of their body building pics.....has anyone in history though of Jay when searching "abs pic"? :-\
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He wanted
$1000 for a photo shoot but I declined because he wasn't in his best shape and also had torn a triceps.
I merely took his exceptional physique and put a new background behind him. Took ages to do.
Rubbish, U didn't have money & U stole another person photo & altered it . So it's fake.
Just like U did with images of Zane & Reeves , 3 bodybuilders with identical shadow.
Oliva,Zane & Reeves NEVER posed 4 U.
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Any of you other old folks remember the weider ad that had a side ab crunch pose of Munzer before he went crazy with the drugs and teh died? It was an insane shot at the time :o
Odd that in searching "Andreas Munzer abs pic", one of the results was a Jay Cutler pic. Google might need to do some re-algorithmicizing of their body building pics.....has anyone in history though of Jay when searching "abs pic"? :-\
Google's search results are just based on what people click on the most when searching for certain terms. So I guess when people search for Munzer abs pic they often click on a pic of Jay for some reason.
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;D
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(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51LkticewvL.jpg).
It says it right there on the book. Those fuckers are prize winners.
I remember those ads. I guess if you don't eat and just do abs everyday you can look like that. The 11 inch arms are a bonus. :-\
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(https://www.nutrimuscle.com/hebergeur_images/Upload/images/neuvillee9.jpg)
Jacques Nueveille , Nubret, Pastel..... all french.
Strydom had great midsection.
Bill Grant had incredible abs.
Priest.
Phill Hill, when he was in shape, Brian Buchanan, Flex Wheeler, Shawn Ray all had good abs
Franco Columbo and Dany Padilla also complete ab development, obliques and serratus.
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Boyer Coe had a great set of abs.
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Boyer Coe had a great set of abs.
That's a joke, right???
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closest coe came to showing abs.
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:)
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shawn ray best abs
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:D
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:)
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Cant believe Big Lenny is not featured here.
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Cant believe Big Lenny is not featured here.
that's one big ab for sure.
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Big Lenny.
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Ron and Mohamed
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Thierry pastel
don't forget Ahmad Haidar "abzilla"
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=540593.0;attach=569924;image)
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/ysoAAOSwCU1Y3nYO/s-l300.jpg)
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i think jay had the most shredded abs ever at the 2001 olympia
E
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=540593.0;attach=569924;image)
Pierre Vandensteen was superb. Like the original book, "Pumping Iron" said - "An upper body carved out of ice". Or at least that is what I recall. Old now... ;D
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Joe Means
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I don't know who this girl is but she is up there.
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She must have no tits unless she has implants.
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She must have no tits unless she has implants.
True, there is no such thing as a lean girl with big tits. Anyone know who the above girl is?
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True, there is no such thing as a lean girl with big tits. Anyone know who the above girl is?
"Bob"?
;)
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thread saved
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It looks like we are focused on the thickest, most defined, abdominal muscles, and not so focused on the V taper, vacuum pose, etc.
If thats the case, I think Coach is probably right about Ahmad Haidar.
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;D
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(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51LkticewvL.jpg).
It says it right there on the book. Those fuckers are prize winners.
That bloke absolutely fucking sucks. Would honestly rather loook like Vince goodrums present condition that that shitbag
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;D
Warren, with today's coaching support, would have been Mr. Olympia.
J
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yep, Ahmad Haidar.
(http://www.bodybuilding-pics.com/48/images/Ahmad_Haidar_246.jpg)
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every guy in the world wants great abs, yet they might be the least important body part in competitions
what was the best placing of ahmad haidar's career? ronnie had the worst abs ever yet is probably the best bodybuilder ever
E
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Yes, but for the average man it sets you apart from everyone else around you.
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Yes, but for the average man it sets you apart from everyone else around you.
For a guy who doesn't compete and doesn't use drugs it just takes too much to get there. First you have to give up drinking on weekends. Eat like a skinny chick does. Do a ton of cardio or a ton of lifting volume. Is it worth it? You will look like a soccer player in clothes which isn't a bad thing but you can only show off your leaness with your shirt off. I'll have a beer and pizza please.
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For a guy who doesn't compete and doesn't use drugs it just takes too much to get there. First you have to give up drinking on weekends. Eat like a skinny chick does. Do a ton of cardio or a ton of lifting volume. Is it worth it? You will look like a soccer player in clothes which isn't a bad thing but you can only show off your leaness with your shirt off. I'll have a beer and pizza please.
Much easier in your 20's than any other time. For me to have a 6 pack I would have to starve myself.
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whatabout a 4 pack
(https://d1w7fb2mkkr3kw.cloudfront.net/assets/images/book/lrg/9781/5200/9781520095950.jpg)
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whatabout a 4 pack
(https://d1w7fb2mkkr3kw.cloudfront.net/assets/images/book/lrg/9781/5200/9781520095950.jpg)
Or a keg. ;D
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Bill Grant had the best abs.
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Bill Grant had the best abs.
he's up there with the best.
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:)
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Bob Hinds had a rugged physique! No homo.
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:)
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Bobby Pandour best natty ever! And he did it lifting a 10lb dumbbell.
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Bobby Pandour best natty ever! And he did it lifting a 10lb dumbbell.
He was a gymnast. Little is known about him. Many male gymnasts look amazing. Maybe he was doing a lot of body weight stuff.
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He was a gymnast. Little is known about him. Many male gymnast look amazing. Maybe he was doing a lot of body weight stuff.
They claim he did bodyweight stuff and carried around 1 10lb dumbbell around with him and was always pumping with the dumbbell. It sounds like he might have been OCD with lifting as it seems he pumped all day long and they said he was very nervous. He died young.
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One thing for sure you can build a great physique with body weight stuff.
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Gymnasts are jacked without lifting weights BUT they also work out hours a day so it is unpractical to do for most people plus you would need coaching to learn it in the first place. Very technical. Weight training mixed with some bodyweight stuff is the most efficient way to build muscles. I am doing more bodyweight stuff everyday and enjoy it especially low rep stuff like 1 arm pushups.
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This guy :)
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FUCK ZABO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111111111111
(https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/images/2007/wescott_big3.jpg)
(https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/images/2007/wescott_big7.jpg)
(https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/images/2007/wescott_big2.jpg)
(https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/images/2007/wescott_big10.jpg)
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FUCK ZABO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111111111111
(https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/images/2007/wescott_big3.jpg)
(https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/images/2007/wescott_big7.jpg)
(https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/images/2007/wescott_big2.jpg)
(https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/images/2007/wescott_big10.jpg)
Hell yeah
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That ugly fucker died recently if I'm not mistaken.
Being skinny fat and have amazing abs, thats god's way of irony...
I think he's still with us
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(https://broscience.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/bodybuilding-implants.jpg)
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Who is that black fitness competitor that is popular? There is a photo of him leaning back against a motorcycle. Flawless abs.
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every guy in the world wants great abs, yet they might be the least important body part in competitions
what was the best placing of ahmad haidar's career? ronnie had the worst abs ever yet is probably the best bodybuilder ever
E
for me its biceps, quads and abs
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(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51LkticewvL.jpg).
It says it right there on the book. Those fuckers are prize winners.
https://youtu.be/Apjvf9YNzEM?t=239
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Momo Benazizza
Eduardo Kawak
Mo Makkawy
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I think he's still with us
Thanks for the info, is he a retard?
Doesn't sound normal, here is what he wrote in M&F Online
"I have known my great friend Arnold Schwarzenegger for 40 years, and he has been a great help with my training by giving excellent advice in the gym. For example, the concentric contraction is when the weight goes up, and eccentric contraction is when the weight goes down. Make sure to do both parts of each rep slowly to get the best results."
Being friend with Arnold and learning eccentric/concentric contraction... ::)
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FUCK ZABO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111111111111
(https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/images/2007/wescott_big3.jpg)
(https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/images/2007/wescott_big7.jpg)
(https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/images/2007/wescott_big2.jpg)
(https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/images/2007/wescott_big10.jpg)
Damn!!! Wes in the top in this thread easily
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Thanks for the info, is he a retard?
Doesn't sound normal, here is what he wrote in M&F Online
"I have known my great friend Arnold Schwarzenegger for 40 years, and he has been a great help with my training by giving excellent advice in the gym. For example, the concentric contraction is when the weight goes up, and eccentric contraction is when the weight goes down. Make sure to do both parts of each rep slowly to get the best results."
Being friend with Arnold and learning eccentric/concentric contraction... ::)
Yeah something is not right here surely.... Look at this guy FFS he's the sort of guy who should never have taken his shirt off in public and yet here he is seemingly spending a lifetime taking his shirt off exposing that body on people.....
All with that dopey Labrador smile on his face.
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Gymnasts are jacked without lifting weights
Gymnasts lift weights. Wife is a former gymnast and has coached for a 3 time Aussie Olympian. Weight training is an important component of modern gymnastics - it's not just pullups and dips that get them those physiques.
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Pavel Jablonicky yet - he had a good midsection.
I always thought Mike Quinn had good abs too - the few times he showed up in shape.
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Gymnasts lift weights. Wife is a former gymnast and has coached for a 3 time Aussie Olympian. Weight training is an important component of modern gymnastics - it's not just pullups and dips that get them those physiques.
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Pavel Jablonicky yet - he had a good midsection.
I always thought Mike Quinn had good abs too - the few times he showed up in shape.
Some gymnasts may lift weights but many or most don't. I went to college with 2 gymnasts who were totally jacked and they did no weight training at all.
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(https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/images/2007/wescott_big16.jpg)
(https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/images/2007/wescott_big12.jpg)
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(http://www.musclememory.com/images/amateurUSA/WescottTim.jpg)
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That's a ripped athletic looking physique Wes. Great abs!
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Thanks Rich !
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:o
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https://twitter.com/yusuf_paiman/status/552718010377830401
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Possible or not??
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Wes - please don't take this the wrong way, but please can I suck your d1ck? (no homo of course) ;D
FUCK ZABO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111111111111
(https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/images/2007/wescott_big3.jpg)
(https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/images/2007/wescott_big7.jpg)
(https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/images/2007/wescott_big2.jpg)
(https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/images/2007/wescott_big10.jpg)
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Wes - please don't take this the wrong way, but please can I suck your d1ck? (no homo of course) ;D
DAMN Taffin.................. ..I`m flattered !! LOL ;D
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(https://broscience.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/bodybuilding-implants.jpg)
Good God! Mental illness on display. Why wouldn't these competitors be immediately disqualified for having implants?
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https://twitter.com/yusuf_paiman/status/552718010377830401
Unreal If he keeps going like he is, someday he'll be as ripped as Wes.
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Regarding to Rob Kennedy (Muscle Mag) the most complete mid section belongs to Vince Gironda !.
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Wes is kicking ass, particularly in that pic with the sunglasses.
Pierre whatishisface has to be the top contender, however, along with Haidar, Yusuf, Pastel and that Helmut dude. Among the very top guys, Shawn Ray is up there.
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(http://www.musclememory.com/images/amateurUSA/WescottTim.jpg)
m
You like like shit Wes. Bloated mess here. :P ;D
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m
You like like shit Wes. Bloated mess here. :P ;D
Keep in mind, in that hieroglyphic dirt had just been invented.
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m
You like like shit Wes. Bloated mess here. :P ;D
Thanks !! LOL ;D
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Keep in mind, in that hieroglyphic dirt had just been invented.
Yes the pic goes way way back to when I was 46 years old.
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(https://scontent-den4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/1475858_10152113759802146_43097840_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ohc=L-2OBycucqMAX_XsyDo&_nc_ht=scontent-den4-1.xx&oh=564964ea7ac637163e4677b2b2606ba0&oe=5E9E9964)
Abs at 57 years old !!
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Yes the pic goes way way back to when I was 46 years old.
In other words, The earth hadn’t even cooled yet.
🤣
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In other words, The earth hadn’t even cooled yet.
🤣
Exactly !! LOL ;D
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Exactly !! LOL ;D
I can’t imagine what it must have been like to train before God created gravity...
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I can’t imagine what it must have been like to train before God created gravity...
It wasn`t easy but I rose to the occasion.
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It wasn`t easy but I rose to the occasion.
Calm your tits, I’m not touching that thing no matter what !
LOL
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Great beautiful symmetrical abs by WES , I'm jealous .
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:)
Did Birdsong do G4P back in the day? Think they all did.
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Did Birdsong do G4P back in the day? Think they all did.
of course than he found god.
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(http://www.musclememory.com/images/amateurUSA/WescottTim.jpg)
Great fucking abs. Sliced and Diced!
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Thanks Brother................. hope all is well with you and yours.
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Damn!!! Wes in the top in this thread easily
absolutely awesome abs and great conditioning Wes a lot of hard work and discipline there good structure too boot :) :) :)
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(https://broscience.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/bodybuilding-implants.jpg)
No way. Those aren't real. I didn't know they had ab implants. How the hell do you get it in there with leaving a huge scar?
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Calm your tits, I’m not touching that thing no matter what !
LOL
Taffin has that taken care of.
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No way. Those aren't real. I didn't know they had ab implants. How the hell do you get it in there with leaving a huge scar?
Side cuts, like breasts implants , no frontal scars.
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FUCK ZABO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111111111111
(https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/images/2007/wescott_big3.jpg)
(https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/images/2007/wescott_big7.jpg)
(https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/images/2007/wescott_big2.jpg)
(https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/images/2007/wescott_big10.jpg)
Holy cow! :o Wes just shows his own pict. and everyone shuts up!
Thats killing it!
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(https://scontent-den4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/1475858_10152113759802146_43097840_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ohc=L-2OBycucqMAX_XsyDo&_nc_ht=scontent-den4-1.xx&oh=564964ea7ac637163e4677b2b2606ba0&oe=5E9E9964)
Abs at 57 years old !!
That's an awesome physique at any age but 57 is just crazy.
and yes, FUCK ZABO!!!!!
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Achim albrecht with his mega mass 2000 ab thigh pose
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This guy :)
Hmmm, you be the judge:
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Hmmm, you be the judge:
Great abs bud !!
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"In 1986, Sergio survived being shot by his then-wife Arleen Garrett. He sustained 5 bullet wounds to his abdomen from a '.38' special."
(https://www.greatestphysiques.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/sergio-oliva-bicep-692x1024.jpg)
That's because his muscles were so thick and strong, bullets could make it only half way through his muscles, but couldn't go far enough to injure his internal organs or his bones.
In order to heal his muscles after getting shot, he would eat hundreds of steaks and drink many bottles of wine all in one sitting. He was a very fast healer too.
All of this has been confirmed and verified by the Japanese authorities.
(https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/images/2012/memories-of-the-myth-greats-pay-tribute-to-sergio-oliva_d.jpg)
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1251/9383/files/Huge_Sergio_Oliva.jpg?v=1482256247)
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DfLft-HWAAA2UZu.jpg)
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DfLft-HWAAA2UZu.jpg)
ya - his sides are amazing
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(https://scontent-lhr8-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/83447749_643594066410050_2714903627289329664_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_ohc=PyhObueT_ekAX8_QlWt&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr8-1.xx&oh=de35322ff15ac93dee2f969bdceeb633&oe=5E960972)
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Calm your tits, I’m not touching that thing no matter what !
LOL
Taffin has that taken care of.
:D
Yes! I'm finally acknowledged in a Pellius post 8) (For all the wrong reasons, sure ;D ..... ... but I made it Ma!)
#taffinhappydance
(https://i.postimg.cc/RCf6bjrL/taffin-happy-dance.gif)
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(https://scontent-lhr8-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/83447749_643594066410050_2714903627289329664_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_ohc=PyhObueT_ekAX8_QlWt&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr8-1.xx&oh=de35322ff15ac93dee2f969bdceeb633&oe=5E960972)
Good call
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/pZyahFcgvVInx7Q9GcSmuHtTnM4TgZyvgjdcEbJa2jQX9hvPcdQznLUAKtimMDepMYAVB5O7XGP6SlPeZxFOsuYxfars1BxGugEueYdyMidge552vUMP)
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(https://anabolicminds.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/12907225_1607853496206969_2012168568_n.jpg)
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10 pack.... :o
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10 pack.... :o
Not unless he's a freak of nature.
"Is it possible to have a 10-pack? Being able to achieve a 10-pack is possible for some people. You need to be born with a rectus abdominis that contains five bands of connective tissue running horizontally across it. You also need to regularly work out these muscles and follow a healthy diet."
(https://caliberstrong.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/abdominal-muscles-diagram.jpg)
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10 pack.... :o
(https://i.stack.imgur.com/7qUpI.jpg)
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Not unless he's a freak of nature.
"Is it possible to have a 10-pack? Being able to achieve a 10-pack is possible for some people. You need to be born with a rectus abdominis that contains five bands of connective tissue running horizontally across it. You also need to regularly work out these muscles and follow a healthy diet."
(https://caliberstrong.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/abdominal-muscles-diagram.jpg)
STFU
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Not unless he's a freak of nature.
"Is it possible to have a 10-pack? Being able to achieve a 10-pack is possible for some people. You need to be born with a rectus abdominis that contains five bands of connective tissue running horizontally across it. You also need to regularly work out these muscles and follow a healthy diet."
(https://caliberstrong.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/abdominal-muscles-diagram.jpg)
I was referring to the post before mine that was on page 5. The guy has a 10 pack.
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I was referring to the post before mine that was on page 5. The guy has a 10 pack.
Apparently so. Having seen the original photo posted here, I was curious to see if a 10 pack were even possible. Apparently it is. Although, it is not common because the person must have extra rectis abdominis in addition to being in excellent shape.
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(https://anabolicminds.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/12907225_1607853496206969_2012168568_n.jpg)
FREAKY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111111111
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FREAKY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111111111
8)...looks like a freeking alien I don’t think I’ve ever seen a 10 pack before...
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8)...looks like a freeking alien I don’t think I’ve ever seen a 10 pack before...
Impressive but not attractive. I'd rather stick with the standard six or even four-pack.
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8)...looks like a freeking alien I don’t think I’ve ever seen a 10 pack before...
It`s a new one on me also !!
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Impressive but not attractive. I'd rather stick with the standard six or even four-pack.
yep - solid 6 pack is ideal
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STFU
;D ;D ;D ;D