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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: IroNat on July 23, 2019, 08:21:01 AM
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https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/rashida-tlaib-the-federal-minimum-wage-should-be-20-an-hour
"When we started it, it should have been $15," the Michigan Democrat said in a video posted by America Rising on Monday. "Now I think it should be $20 ... It should be $20 an hour. $18-20 an hour."
Tlaib said the higher minimum was because the cost of "a lot of things" has gone up."
(https://media.giphy.com/media/IhIDeqkmvDv9ZfghYu/giphy.gif)
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https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/rashida-tlaib-the-federal-minimum-wage-should-be-20-an-hour
"When we started it, it should have been $15," the Michigan Democrat said in a video posted by America Rising on Monday. "Now I think it should be $20 ... It should be $20 an hour. $18-20 an hour."
Tlaib said the higher minimum was because the cost of "a lot of things" has gone up."
(https://media.giphy.com/media/IhIDeqkmvDv9ZfghYu/giphy.gif)
Terrible idea.
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Why not $100 an hour?😉
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Why not $100 an hour?😉
That's what I say when they start pulling these numbers out of their rear end.
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Do I hear $25? $25? Anybody, $25?
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Why not $100 an hour?😉
Exactly. Who in the hell can afford to buy a house, take vacations and put their kids through college on some bullshit 15 dollars an hour?? ???
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This is why women couldn't vote until 100 years ago.
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Bat...sh*t...crazy.
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This is why women couldn't vote until 100 years ago.
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That's what I say when they start pulling these numbers out of their rear end.
Anyone who would pop off about raising the minimum wage is either economically illiterate or dishonest. Either way there’s no point in arguing with them.
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My issue has always been whether or not you can sustain yourself working full time on minimum wage. When I was 18, living in a northern California suburb I could. Minimum wage was 3.75-4.00 per hour and I could rent a 1 room place for $300-400/month. So I could barely make it. I don't know what's its like where i live now, but I think there should be a minimum wage that allows a person to survive, (not thrive) on minimum wage. That way there is less of an excuse to get on aid.
Should that wage be $15 or $9 or whatever, I don't know.
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Anyone who would pop off about raising the minimum wage is either economically illiterate or dishonest. Either way there’s no point in arguing with them.
Or a political hack.
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My issue has always been whether or not you can sustain yourself working full time on minimum wage. When I was 18, living in a northern California suburb I could. Minimum wage was 3.75-4.00 per hour and I could rent a 1 room place for $300-400/month. So I could barely make it. I don't know what's its like where i live now, but I think there should be a minimum wage that allows a person to survive, (not thrive) on minimum wage. That way there is less of an excuse to get on aid.
Should that wage be $15 or $9 or whatever, I don't know.
The last time I was anywhere near minimum-wage was with an after high school job. I was living rent free with my parents and ate for free as well. So, the money I made went to buy records and other fun stuff. But I got more than just the money. I got experience in customer service, a skill that I use to this day. That’s what a high minimum wage cuts out.
There are a number of other reasons why it’s a bad idea. The biggest is that when you increase the price of labor you decrease demand.
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If you pay unskilled workers a lot so they can afford a living, then you'll have to pay skilled workers much more, which in turn increases the cost of goods and services, which makes them unafordable to unskilled workers. See how that works?
So what if you don't pay skilled workers much more? Then the number of skilled workers will drop. Why would anyone spend time, money and effort to obtain an education and training for skills that are in high demand when they can go flip burgers for nearly the same pay?
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The last time I was anywhere near minimum-wage was with an after high school job. I was living rent free with my parents and ate for free as well. So, the money I made went to buy records and other fun stuff. But I got more than just the money. I got experience in customer service, a skill that I use to this day. That’s what a high minimum wage cuts out.
There are a number of other reasons why it’s a bad idea. The biggest is that when you increase the price of labor you decrease demand.
Yes, a person enters the workforce at minimum wage but expects and is expected to move on after developing skills. It was never intended to be a lifetime career wage.
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The market, skill, education, training, work ethic, geography, etc. should determine wages, not the government.
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Yes, a person enters the workforce at minimum wage but expects and is expected to move on after developing skills. It was never intended to be a lifetime career wage.
It’s only like five or 6% of the workforce that actually works for minimum-wage. So, the idea that employers wouldn’t pay employees anything if there were no minimum-wage is bullshit.
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It’s only like five or 6% of the workforce that actually works for minimum-wage. So, the idea that employers wouldn’t pay employees anything if there were no minimum-wage is bullshit.
Where is strawbrains to defend this bullshit?
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The last time I was anywhere near minimum-wage was with an after high school job. I was living rent free with my parents and ate for free as well. So, the money I made went to buy records and other fun stuff. But I got more than just the money. I got experience in customer service, a skill that I use to this day. That’s what a high minimum wage cuts out.
There are a number of other reasons why it’s a bad idea. The biggest is that when you increase the price of labor you decrease demand.
How does a high minimum wage cut out getting experience in customer service?
BTW, $20 minimum wage seems stupid. Just not too sure about $15/hr.
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How does a high minimum wage cut out getting experience in customer service?
BTW, $20 minimum wage seems stupid. Just not too sure about $15/hr.
It cuts out jobs. The higher labor costs translates to fewer employees.
Seattle-based restaurant chain declares bankruptcy, cites high minimum wage
https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/seattle-based-restaurant-chain-declares-143532347.html
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How does a high minimum wage cut out getting experience in customer service?
BTW, $20 minimum wage seems stupid. Just not too sure about $15/hr.
They have the u-scan stuff in grocery stores. Figure it out.
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They have the u-scan stuff in grocery stores. Figure it out.
Self check out is happening regardless of wages.
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It cuts out jobs. The higher labor costs translates to fewer employees.
Seattle-based restaurant chain declares bankruptcy, cites high minimum wage
https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/seattle-based-restaurant-chain-declares-143532347.html
I'd like to see those financials per restaurant. Businesses go down all the time.
I remember hearing the whole city went to $15/hour a few years ago. What kind of impact did it have I wonder.
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Self check out is happening regardless of wages.
That is the first wave of customer service that you mentioned before. We're in an era where the consumer buys on price only and now expects poor service/no service.
Jobs that would pay $15 an hour are vaporizing while they are politicizing the whole thing. Where are the unions when they put u-scan machines in knowing it kills jobs?
It's a weird time when people who work in cell phone stores are better at sales than the average new car lot.
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I'd like to see those financials per restaurant. Businesses go down all the time.
I remember hearing the whole city went to $15/hour a few years ago. What kind of impact did it have I wonder.
Either you accept economic theory or you don’t.
When you artificially raise prices, in this case the price of labor. You will artificially lower demand.
I understand why people support minimum-wage. It SEEMS fair, until you examine it more closely.
Let’s say you have four hungry people and three slices of pizza. Most would say that the fair thing to do would be to give everybody 3/4 of a slice. Minimum wage gives three people one slice and one person nothing.
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The market, skill, education, training, work ethic, geography, etc. should determine wages, not the government.
QFT.
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Self check out is happening regardless of wages.
Someone has to design the u-scan stuff.
Someone has to build the u-scan stuff.
Someone has to sell the u-scan stuff.
Someone has to maintain the u-scan stuff.
Jobs, jobs, jobs.
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I'd like to see those financials per restaurant. Businesses go down all the time.
I remember hearing the whole city went to $15/hour a few years ago. What kind of impact did it have I wonder.
Dozens upon dozens of businesses, especially restaurants went out of business or reduced their labor force.
(https://thumbor.forbes.com/thumbor/960x0/https%3A%2F%2Fspecials-images.forbesimg.com%2Fdam%2Fimageserve%2F915559706%2F960x0.jpg%3Ffit%3Dscale)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/adammillsap/2018/09/28/how-higher-minimum-wages-impact-employment/2/#7be68c4853cb
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Someone has to design the u-scan stuff.
Someone has to build the u-scan stuff.
Someone has to sell the u-scan stuff.
Someone has to maintain the u-scan stuff.
Jobs, jobs, jobs.
They design and build them once and they run for years, and one glorified copier repairman in a mini van might update them a few times a year. So...just like the burger flipping machine = net loss of jobs.
Not saying that progress isn't okay, and I could write pages about why tech is a centralizing power that takes humans out of the equation ... but long story short we have A LOT of useless eaters already.
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They design and build them once and they run for years, and one glorified copier repairman in a mini van might update them a few times a year. So...just like the burger flipping machine = net loss of jobs.
Not saying that progress isn't okay, and I could write pages about why tech is a centralizing power that takes humans out of the equation ... but long story short we have A LOT of useless eaters already.
You’re right. That’s why the economy needs to be dynamic and you can’t have over-regulation and high taxation. So that when all old industries become obsolete new ones can emerge. When the refrigerator became widely available, all the guys who delivered ice just didn’t starve. They found something else to do.
There really aren’t that many specialized jobs. With a little training, most people can do most things.
Ivanka is spot on:
Ivanka Trump
@IvankaTrump
States must end the practice of excessive licensure. In 1950 less than 5% of occupations were licensed.
Today it is closer to 30%. The Americans hurt the most by this overreaching regulatory regime are those living on the margins, including returning citizens
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I pay my skilled guys $25 an hour and labor starts at $12 hour. I use labor as entry level to train and gain knowledge of my industry and move them up to the 20-25 an hour. I’d hope that my guys weren’t just happy to stay at $12 an hour as a laborer. It’s not meant to be a permanent stop. I’d feel sorry for any of my guys making that and thinking it was going to sustain them for the rest of their lives, and that’s not even the US minimum wage. I guess my point is, the market couldn’t bare having everybody making $15 an hour for doing shit work that’s not meant to “live off of”. I only made minimum wage in high school. These folks fighting for the $15 an hour minimum wage are living in a dream world if they think everybody is entitled and worth that.
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I pay my skilled guys $25 an hour and labor starts at $12 hour. I use labor as entry level to train and gain knowledge of my industry and move them up to the 20-25 an hour. I’d hope that my guys weren’t just happy to stay at $12 an hour as a laborer. It’s not meant to be a permanent stop. I’d feel sorry for any of my guys making that and thinking it was going to sustain them for the rest of their lives, and that’s not even the US minimum wage. I guess my point is, the market couldn’t bare having everybody making $15 an hour for doing shit work that’s not meant to “live off of”. I only made minimum wage in high school. These folks fighting for the $15 an hour minimum wage are living in a dream world if they think everybody is entitled and worth that.
Most regulations are really about limiting competition. The people calling for this, like Liz Warren, in the next sentence call for stronger unions. That gives away the game as to who really wants it.
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People are focused on the WRONG end of the spectrum
Shouldn't be focused on minimum wage... don't even have a minimum wage and let the market set the price.
What you should be focused on is MAXIMUM wage.
There shouldn't be any minimum wage.
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Most regulations are really about limiting competition. The people calling for this, like Liz Warren, in the next sentence call for stronger unions. That gives away the game as to who really wants it.
Yes.
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https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/rashida-tlaib-the-federal-minimum-wage-should-be-20-an-hour
"When we started it, it should have been $15," the Michigan Democrat said in a video posted by America Rising on Monday. "Now I think it should be $20 ... It should be $20 an hour. $18-20 an hour."
Tlaib said the higher minimum was because the cost of "a lot of things" has gone up."
(https://media.giphy.com/media/IhIDeqkmvDv9ZfghYu/giphy.gif)
Another math wizard
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If you make minimum wage you probably work at a crappy store. Then you do your shopping at other crappy stores. But each crappy store had to raise their prices to pay for the higher wages. No wonder the $15 dollars didnt work. They raise it to 20 it still wont.
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People are focused on the WRONG end of the spectrum
Shouldn't be focused on minimum wage... don't even have a minimum wage and let the market set the price.
What you should be focused on is MAXIMUM wage.
There shouldn't be any minimum wage.
are you saying there should be a maximum wage?
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I pay my skilled guys $25 an hour and labor starts at $12 hour. I use labor as entry level to train and gain knowledge of my industry and move them up to the 20-25 an hour. I’d hope that my guys weren’t just happy to stay at $12 an hour as a laborer. It’s not meant to be a permanent stop. I’d feel sorry for any of my guys making that and thinking it was going to sustain them for the rest of their lives, and that’s not even the US minimum wage. I guess my point is, the market couldn’t bare having everybody making $15 an hour for doing shit work that’s not meant to “live off of”. I only made minimum wage in high school. These folks fighting for the $15 an hour minimum wage are living in a dream world if they think everybody is entitled and worth that.
Cheap bastard, I start most guys at 15-16!
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are you saying there should be a maximum wage?
Nope... I'm saying 1950's tax rates worked and we need to go back to them.
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If you want to go back to 1950s tax rates you also have to go back to all the 1950 tax loopholes.
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I believe in leaving the past behind and moving forward.
However, while we are talking about going back, how about the USA go back to no income tax and heavenly taxing alcohol again instead as was the case before Prohibition?
"One of the stumbling blocks advocates of Prohibition faced before 1913 was that the federal government was heavily dependent on taxes on alcohol. The passage of the income tax constitutional amendment that year allowed government the luxury of banning alcohol without reducing tax revenue."
https://taxfoundation.org/how-taxes-enabled-alcohol-prohibition-and-also-led-its-repeal/
And while we're at it, how about legalizing marijuana and heavily taxing it too to allow the government the luxury of ending the income tax without reducing tax revenue.
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If you want to go back to 1950s tax rates you also have to go back to all the 1950 tax loopholes.
Yeah.. you're right.. those loopholes from 1950 would allow companies like Amazon today to pay no taxes...
Oh wait...... what?
MORE loopholes exist today
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Yeah.. you're right.. those loopholes from 1950 would allow companies like Amazon today to pay no taxes...
Oh wait...... what?
MORE loopholes exist today
Regardless of political persuasion it should be easy to agree that Amazon should pay taxes. As a tax free company they are destroying everyone in small retail.
Hell, they don't even pay 10% which is self employment tax before they even start the regular earned income taxes for a sole proprietorship.
It's almost like they are to become the company store of a socialist country.
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The reason for Amazons’ low tax bill is that they lost money for many years. Losses can be carried over and use to offset profits. They’re essentially an online supermarket and if you know anything about supermarkets they have a very low profit margin.
I just have a problem supporting anything that sucks more money out of the private sector and puts it in the hands of politicians and bureaucrats.
Look at the industries where government has a large footprint: education and healthcare. Both have out of control costs and relatively poor outcomes.
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Regardless of political persuasion it should be easy to agree that Amazon should pay taxes. As a tax free company they are destroying everyone in small retail.
Hell, they don't even pay 10% which is self employment tax before they even start the regular earned income taxes for a sole proprietorship.
It's almost like they are to become the company store of a socialist country.
I hope the market "corrects" itself. I think/hope it will. People still want to see and feel products before they buy.
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The reason for Amazons’ low tax bill is that they lost money for many years. Losses can be carried over and use to offset profits. They’re essentially an online supermarket and if you know anything about supermarkets they have a very low profit margin.
I just have a problem supporting anything that sucks more money out of the private sector and puts it in the hands of politicians and bureaucrats.
Look at the industries where government has a large footprint: education and healthcare. Both have out of control costs and relatively poor outcomes.
I read an interesting opinion on the sky rocketing costs of tuition. It said that the high cost of tuition is direct result of how easy it is to get federally guaranteed student loans. They compared it to buying cars. If you can get a loan for a BMW (Ivy League school) real easy why would you ever buy a Chevy (state college) for half the cost. So, Chevy just increases the cost of their cars so people can easily buy Chevys.
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I read an interesting opinion on the sky rocketing costs of tuition. It said that the high cost of tuition is direct result of how easy it is to get federally guaranteed student loans. They compared it to buying cars. If you can get a loan for a BMW (Ivy League school) real easy why would you ever buy a Chevy (state college) for half the cost. So, Chevy just increases the cost of their cars so people can easily buy Chevys.
It raises the price and devalues the degree.
With recent advances in online and distance-learning there should be a massive disruption in education as well as plummeting prices but there isn’t because of the heavy government involvement.
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It raises the price and devalues the degree.
With recent advances in online and distance-learning there should be a massive disruption in education as well as plummeting prices but there isn’t because of the heavy government involvement.
Do you agree about the student loans? And are there other things you think they are doing that raises the price and devalues the degree?
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Do you agree about the student loans? And are there other things you think they are doing that raises the price and devalues the degree?
Yes, giving out loans to everyone creates artificial demand which raises prices. That’s why you have so many people coming out of college with degrees in useless majors and end up working the counter in Starbucks.
Also, the debt accumulated in college keeps them from getting ahead in life, starting a family buying a house, saving for retirement.
Bottom line is that government interventions almost invariably have side effects that are worse than the disease.
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The reason for Amazons’ low tax bill is that they lost money for many years. Losses can be carried over and use to offset profits. They’re essentially an online supermarket and if you know anything about supermarkets they have a very low profit margin.
I just have a problem supporting anything that sucks more money out of the private sector and puts it in the hands of politicians and bureaucrats.
Look at the industries where government has a large footprint: education and healthcare. Both have out of control costs and relatively poor outcomes.
Agree.
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MORE loopholes exist today
Actually, no.
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Do you agree about the student loans? And are there other things you think they are doing that raises the price and devalues the degree?
Other things that government involvement in the free market may cause price increases (but also can level out supply which avoids big swings and oversupply/shortages):
Healthcare
Home mortgages
Gas prices
Food price supports (corn, dairy)
Utility prices
Licensing of professions
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Other things that government involvement in the free market may cause price increases (but also can level out supply which avoids big swings and oversupply/shortages):
Healthcare
Home mortgages
Gas prices
Food price supports (corn, dairy)
Utility prices
Licensing of professions
Good post. Corn subsidies is a good one. That’s why you have high fructose corn syrup in every product which has resulted in negative health outcomes.
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Good post. Corn subsidies is a good one. That’s why you have high fructose corn syrup in every product which has resulted in negative health outcomes.
Lots of pork barrel subsidies for corn to produce ethanol.