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Getbig Main Boards => General Topics => Topic started by: Palumboism on October 05, 2019, 11:21:57 AM
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A number of new business jets have been launched in the last year along with some new engines. The aircraft in bold are all new shown with the aircraft they compete against
Small
Cessna Citation M2
Honda Jet
Embraer Phenom 100
Cessna CJ3
Cessna CJ4
Embraer Phenom 300
Pilatus PC-24
Mid-sized
Embraer Legacy 450
Embraer Legacy 500
Embraer Preator 500
Embraer Preator 600
Cessna Latitude
Cessna Longitude
Large
Gulfsteam G500
Gulfstream G600
Bombardier Global 5500
Bombardier Global 6500
Bombardier Global 7500
Bombardier Global 8000
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(https://media1.giphy.com/media/TQbCSC7hZj2cU/source.gif)
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(https://robbreportedit.files.wordpress.com/2018/02/pilatus_image_10.jpg?w=1024)
(https://robbreportedit.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/pilatus-pc24-interior.jpg)
The Pilatus PC-24 competes against the Embraer Phenom 300 and Cessna CJ3, CJ4. Note the flat floor, which is a first for the small jet market.
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(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-M2fU8XbQiR0/XMIenTxXKmI/AAAAAAAAXSo/Y_XT25-SHfIBee6e5fwNxNkOcy3z9duRQCLcBGAs/s1600/MG_Cirrus%2BSF50%2BVision%2BG2_Private_T7-HGW_11.04.19_FDH_9550.JPG)
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peasant planes
50ft minimum
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If it flies, floats or fucks rent don't buy.
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Good to know as I am planning on trading in my 10 year old Learjet.
Looking to step up in grade to a jet with a solid gold toilet seat.
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This is good info.
With all tbe money i'm saving by cutting my own hair I'll easily be able to pay for new jet in case.
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(https://robbreportedit.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/pilatus-pc24-interior.jpg)
The Pilatus PC-24 competes against the Embraer Phenom 300 and Cessna CJ3, CJ4. Note the flat floor, which is a first for the small jet market.
Why is this? Engineering? Physics?
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Why is this? Engineering? Physics?
Dimensions. They made the cabin wide enough to accommodate a flat floor. The engineering on this aircraft is excellent. They evaluated one thousand different airfoil shapes to come up with the design of the wing and choose a blend of four.
The large cargo door was particularly challenging and the head of the program said if we don't have the cargo door, we don't have a jet. They found a way to make the door work and it's huge.
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The only plane I might be able to afford.
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Too small. I own a Boeing simply because I must have a gym on board.
You ever done squats at 30,000 feet? Great fun,I recommend it.
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You missed the Gulfstream G280 for mid cabin.
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Cessna Citation Longitude Enters Service
by Jerry Siebenmark
Textron Aviation’s new Cessna Citation Longitude has entered service following first deliveries of the super-midsize jet, the Wichita-based airframer announced today. The clean-sheet twinjet, the largest of the Citation lineup
Textron Aviation did not disclose the recipients of the first Longitudes. Fractional provider NetJets is among the type’s biggest customers, having agreed to purchase up to 175 Longitudes, including an option to take first deliveries in the second half of this year
Powered by two 7,665-pound-thrust Honeywell HTF7700L turbofan engines, the $26.9 million Longitude has a 3,500-nm range and a maximum cruise speed of 483 knots. It seats up to 12 passengers in its six-foot-high, flat-floor cabin and has a 39,500-pound mtow.
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2019-10-02/cessna-citation-longitude-enters-service (https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2019-10-02/cessna-citation-longitude-enters-service)
Cessna just delivered the first Longitude this week. This aircraft already has 175 orders from NetJets alone and is the largest jet ever made by Cessna. Cessna waited ten months for FAA certification.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/27/Textron_Aviation%2C_N707CL%2C_Cessna_700_Citation_Longitude_%2831378962178%29_%28cropped%29.jpg)
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By the Engine manufacturers:
Williams
Cirrus Jet
Cessna M2
Cessna CJ3
Cessna CJ4
Pilatus PC-24
Williams dominates the small jet market.
Honeywell:
Bombardier Challenger 350
Gulfstream G280
Embraer Legacy 500
Embraer Legacy 450
Embraer Preator 500
Embraer Preator 600
Cessna Longitude
Dassault Falcon 8X
Honeywell dominates the mid-sized jet market
Pratt and Whitney:
Embraer Phenom 100
Embraer Phenom 300
Cessna Latitude
Cessna Soverign
Gulfstream G500, G600
Pratt and Whiney's engine linup is the broadest in the industry.
Rolls Royce:
Gulfstream G650
Bombardier Global 5500, 6500
GE:
Bombardier Global 7500, 8000
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Cessna longitude cockpit with Garmin G5000 avionics.
(http://m.aviationweek.com/site-files/aviationweek.com/files/uploads/2016/02/Longitude_Cockpit_Textron.jpg)
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The Cessna Latitude was originally delivered in 2015 and has already made 100 deliveries. Netjets has placed an order for 200 Latitudes. Between the Longitude and Latitude Cessna will dominate the mid-sized cabin market.
(https://robbreportedit.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/01-citation-latitude1.jpg?w=991)
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When I was in college I worked in a little airport in Jersey near NYC. It's called Teterboro airport. It's where the rich and famous fly into to head to NYC. It's a short 25 minute ride if that into Manhattan. Many times in the terminal the only ones there were myself and a lineman at night. The choice of jet they chartered was the Learjet at the time.
Saw Mick Jagger and Jerry Hall get off one. Again, no one in the terminal but his limo driver, a lineman(jet fueler) and myself. Saw Bill Cosby and two white super model types who were with the limo driver. Both wearing very shear body suits and heels. Saw many others like Willy Nelson, Meat Loaf, and the lead singer from REO Speedwagon.
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(https://robbreportedit.files.wordpress.com/2018/10/edit-praetor-600-flight-1.jpg?w=1000)
The Praetor 500 and 600 are longer range versions of the Legacy 450 and 500 which were FAA certified this year.
Embraer's strongest model is still the Phenom 300.
General Aviation Aircraft Shipment Report:
Embraer's 2018 business jet sales
Phenom 100 11
Phenom 300 53
Legacy 450 14
Legacy 500 9
Legacy 650 4
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When I was in college I worked in a little airport in Jersey near NYC. It's called Teterboro airport. It's where the rich and famous fly into to head to NYC. It's a short 25 minute ride if that into Manhattan. Many times in the terminal the only ones there were myself and a lineman at night. The choice of jet they chartered was the Learjet at the time.
Bill Lear was probably the most important single person in business jet aviation. The Learjet 23 is the forefather of all small business jets.
Learjet 23 require a hushkit to legally be able to land in the lower 48 because of the noise they produce.
Bill Lear also designed the Learstar which later became the Challenger 600 and is the basis of all Bombardier jets including the CRJ regional jets and the Global series.
I didn't mention the Lear 75 above because it's showing it's age and doesn't sell nearly as well as the newer offerings from Embraer, Cessna, and Pilatus. Lear only sold 12 Learjets last year compared to 64 for the Embraer Phenom and 101 for the Cessna CJ series. A carbon fiber Learjet 85 was in development, but was shelved when Bombardier was having difficulties with the CS100 commercial jet.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3c/Global_Flight%2C_N446LJ%2C_Learjet_45XR_%2816454830871%29.jpg/600px-Global_Flight%2C_N446LJ%2C_Learjet_45XR_%2816454830871%29.jpg)
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I looked into this, for shits and giggles one time when I was pissed at the airport, and the cost of one of those small jets will run you almost $500k a year by the time you factor in the upkeep, storage and pilot for the thing. I’d rather just keep flying first class, unless you buy one of the large commercial jets that’s coming off line. Those are cheap, relatively speaking.
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A.Gore lecture others about climate , but he love jet travel !.
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I looked into this, for shits and giggles one time when I was pissed at the airport, and the cost of one of those small jets will run you almost $500k a year by the time you factor in the upkeep, storage and pilot for the thing. I’d rather just keep flying first class, unless you buy one of the large commercial jets that’s coming off line. Those are cheap, relatively speaking.
I'm not implying jets are affordable, or even that anyone should buy one. You pretty much need to be a pilot to make it make any kind of financial sense.
This is a video of a guy who bought an M2 for business and used to fly a Bonanza on oxygen at 19,000 feet. He says the jet is much more relaxing to fly and he uses it all the time for business.
The M2 is the best of the entry level small cabin jets. It competes with the Phenom 100 and Honda Jet. Occasional the Honda jet outsell the M2, but that's only because they have heavy fleet sales. The M2 is the clear winner in the category.
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(https://www.ainonline.com/sites/default/files/styles/ain30_fullwidth_small_2x/public/uploads/2019/10/global_6500_eis_2_ain_photo.jpg?itok=nYtyQIyi×tamp=1569942849)
Bombardier’s first Global 6500 has entered service, a milestone reached just a week after the ultra-long-range model and its sibling, the Global 5500, received Transport Canada approval on September 24.
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2019-10-01/bombardiers-global-6500-enters-service (https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2019-10-01/bombardiers-global-6500-enters-service)
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Textron Aviation’s Flagship Longitude Receives FAA Type Certification
By Rob Mark
Textron Aviation, parent company of Cessna Aircraft, said yesterday that its new super-midsize business jet, the Citation Longitude, has received its type certification from the FAA.
The new Citation Longitude includes seating for up to 12 passengers. At maximum cruise altitude—45,000 feet—the Longitude’s cabin climbs no higher than 5,950 feet above sea level. The Longitude is powered by a pair of FADEC-equipped Honeywell HTF7700L turbofan engines.
Early in its development program, the Citation Longitude exceeded initial performance targets achieving an improved transcontinental range of 3,500 nautical miles and a full fuel payload of 1,600 pounds. The longest-range Citation delivers a maximum cruise speed of 483 ktas.
https://www.flyingmag.com/citation-longitude-faa-certification/ (https://www.flyingmag.com/citation-longitude-faa-certification/)
(https://www.flyingmag.com/resizer/Ftb4imiVl0KzelgVK4Dn0XWSZBc=/1872x1248/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-bonnier.s3.amazonaws.com/public/CK5K7QE3YV4XQ5SEA55AZ32M7M.jpg)
This is the largest jet Cessna has ever delivered. Netjets has ordered 175 longitues.
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I'm not a greedy man, so I will take the Embraer Legacy 500.
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Gulfstream will be unveiling a new aircraft Monday. Most likely a larger aircraft to compete with the Global 7500 which is the current king. and possibly something smaller to fill the gap between the G280 and the G500 and to replace the G450 which has been canceled.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-18/gulfstream-signals-new-luxury-jet-unveiling-at-mystery-event (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-18/gulfstream-signals-new-luxury-jet-unveiling-at-mystery-event)
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When I was in college I worked in a little airport in Jersey near NYC. It's called Teterboro airport. It's where the rich and famous fly into to head to NYC. It's a short 25 minute ride if that into Manhattan. Many times in the terminal the only ones there were myself and a lineman at night. The choice of jet they chartered was the Learjet at the time.
Lear has acknowledged they're getting their ass handed to them by the Phenom 300 and Citation CJ4 and are launching the Learjet 75 Liberty. At $9.9 million, the Liberty sheds two seats in the forward cabin—for a total of six seats.
The competition is still less expensive:
Pilatus PC-24: $8.9 million.
Phenom 300: $9.23 million.
Cessna CJ4: $9.41 million.
This is the class where jets have usable payloads and ranges. Which means eight adults and luggage coast to coast. less expensive jets have limited payloads and ranges.
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2019-07-02/bombardier-unveils-new-learjet-75-liberty (https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2019-07-02/bombardier-unveils-new-learjet-75-liberty)
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I looked into this, for shits and giggles one time when I was pissed at the airport, and the cost of one of those small jets will run you almost $500k a year by the time you factor in the upkeep, storage and pilot for the thing. I’d rather just keep flying first class, unless you buy one of the large commercial jets that’s coming off line. Those are cheap, relatively speaking.
How much does it cost to buy a Cessna Citation CJ4? Prices range between $4,790,000 and $6,900,000
Annual Budget
The total annual budget for flying a Citation CJ4 private jet 200 hours per year is approximately $661,217 or $980,824 for flying 400 hours per year
https://www.libertyjet.com/jet-ownership-costs.aspx?jetType=Citation%20CJ4 (https://www.libertyjet.com/jet-ownership-costs.aspx?jetType=Citation%20CJ4)
I still think there's a market for an airline using smaller business jets at general aviation airports. They could fly to major hubs using a code sharing agreement with the majors.
I used live next door to a small airport with a 5000 ft runway that I saw maybe three or four airplanes fly out of per day. I would have much preferred flying out of that airport rather than the main airport in town.
Don't forget all of the regional airplanes like the ERJ135 and CRJ 900 are just stretched business jets. All of us have flown on a business jet with American Eagle, United express, or Delta connect.
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Gulfsteam launches the G700.
The soon-to-be behemoth, known as the G700, was unveiled at the National Business Aviation Association’s (NBAA) annual corporate aircraft show in Las Vegas. Gulfstream Aerospace President Mark Burns said the flagship G700, priced at $75 million, would be the “tallest, widest cabin in our industry,”
https://robbreport.com/motors/aviation/gulfstreams-g700-worlds-biggest-private-jet-2875781/ (https://robbreport.com/motors/aviation/gulfstreams-g700-worlds-biggest-private-jet-2875781/)
(https://robbreportedit.files.wordpress.com/2019/10/the-gulfstream-g700.jpg)
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^^^^^^^^^^^
Almost an update of the DC-3 really...
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^^^^^^^^^^^
Almost an update of the DC-3 really...
I'm not seeing what you mean. They're not really anything alike.
For business jets, this is state of the art.
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I didn't say it wasn't state of the art...
It roughly has the same design criteria as the DC-3...similar passenger loads...land at a wide variety of airports.
Combine that with current materials...current engines...current everything...operational ceiling say 30,000 feet...fly somewhat south of mach 1.
Turn the design crank...and before you can say "Form Follows Function" ...you get an update of the DC-3
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I didn't say it wasn't state of the art...
It roughly has the same design criteria as the DC-3...similar passenger loads...land at a wide variety of airports.
Combine that with current materials...current engines...current everything...operational ceiling say 30,000 feet...fly somewhat south of mach 1.
Turn the design crank...and before you can say "Form Follows Function" ...you get an update of the DC-3
The DC-3 was actually the impetus for the Gulfstream 1.
"Legend has it that the impetus for the design came from wealthy airplane operators looking for a pressurized airplane that was faster than their war-surplus piston airplanes".
https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2018/april/pilot/quick-look-grumman-gulfstream-g1 (https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2018/april/pilot/quick-look-grumman-gulfstream-g1)
The family tree of the G700 goes all the way back the the Gulfsteam 1 in 1958.
Gulfstream 1 in 1958 (a turbo prop)
Gulfstream 2 in 1966 (a jet)
Gulfstream 3 in 1979
Gulfstream 4 in 1985
Gulfstream 5 in 1997
G350, G450, G550 in 2004
G650 in 2009
G700 in 2019
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Dassault-Breguet Mystère 20...
=8299
Bonus at 2:19:35......The Jaguar convertible...
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Dassault-Breguet Mystère 20...
=8299
Bonus at 2:19:35......The Jaguar convertible...
That's a Dassault Falcon 20.
Lockheed Jetstar 1961
North American Sabreliner 1962
British Aerospace "125" 1963
Lear 23 1964
Dassault Falcon 20 1965
Gulfstream Two 1967
Citation One 1969
Canada air CL-600 1980
Basically the 60's were a hot time for business jets, starting the whole industry and many of the jets of today are based on these earlier jets. For example the nose on a Cessan M2 is the same as the Citation one. Gulfstream's been very evolutionary in their design as well.
This is the third prototype of the CL-600, which first flew in 1978. It's amazing what Bombardier has been able to develop this aircraft into. The CRJ 700, 900, and 1000, as well as the Global 7500.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a0/Canadair_CL-600-1A11_Challenger_600%2C_Bombardier_AN1006238.jpg/1280px-Canadair_CL-600-1A11_Challenger_600%2C_Bombardier_AN1006238.jpg)
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How much does it cost to buy a Cessna Citation CJ4? Prices range between $4,790,000 and $6,900,000
Annual Budget
The total annual budget for flying a Citation CJ4 private jet 200 hours per year is approximately $661,217 or $980,824 for flying 400 hours per year
https://www.libertyjet.com/jet-ownership-costs.aspx?jetType=Citation%20CJ4 (https://www.libertyjet.com/jet-ownership-costs.aspx?jetType=Citation%20CJ4)
I still think there's a market for an airline using smaller business jets at general aviation airports. They could fly to major hubs using a code sharing agreement with the majors.
I used live next door to a small airport with a 5000 ft runway that I saw maybe three or four airplanes fly out of per day. I would have much preferred flying out of that airport rather than the main airport in town.
Don't forget all of the regional airplanes like the ERJ135 and CRJ 900 are just stretched business jets. All of us have flown on a business jet with American Eagle, United express, or Delta connect.
I hate when I fly to Atlanta and see MD90 or CRJ900 as the plane. I will look for a flight that takes a 737 to Atlanta. That said, I bet you could get a cheap CRJ coming out of service and take some seats out and upgrade the interior to have yourself a nice little plane.
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I hate when I fly to Atlanta and see MD90 or CRJ900 as the plane. I will look for a flight that takes a 737 to Atlanta. That said, I bet you could get a cheap CRJ coming out of service and take some seats out and upgrade the interior to have yourself a nice little plane.
Delta's the only airline still flying Mad Dogs and they're retiring them quick because parts are becoming more expensive.
Both aircraft played important rolls in American aviation. When McDonnell Douglas designed the the MD-80 they used a type of rivet that allowed for extremely large flight cycles. Which means these airplanes air frames can fly for years, which is the main reason they were so popular with Delta and American airlines. The MD-80 is based on the DC-9 which first flew in 1965 two years before the 737.