Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure

Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: joswift on November 13, 2019, 08:15:36 AM

Title: The Pareto Principle - in training and theory
Post by: joswift on November 13, 2019, 08:15:36 AM
It has been inferred the "Pareto principle" applies to athletic training, where roughly 20% of the exercises and habits have 80% of the impact and the trainee should not focus so much on a varied training. This does not necessarily mean that having a healthy diet or going to the gym are not important, but they are not as significant as the key activities.

This is just a theory by the way but it makes sense...
Title: Re: the Pareto Principle in training..
Post by: Hypertrophy on November 13, 2019, 10:47:25 AM
It has been inferred the "Pareto principle" applies to athletic training, where roughly 20% of the exercises and habits have 80% of the impact and the trainee should not focus so much on a varied training.
This does not necessarily mean that having a healthy diet or going to the gym are not important, but they are not as significant as the key activities.

this is just a theory by the way but it makes sense...

Makes sense. If you just did bench/rows/squats a few days a week you'd get most of the benefits of weight training, physique and strength wise
Title: Re: the Pareto Principle in training..
Post by: IroNat on November 13, 2019, 11:47:07 AM
80% is not good enough for Getbiggers.

Seriously, getting to 80% in anything is not a great achievement.  90% and above is required for success in higher competition.

Would you prefer a doctor who got 80% on his tests in med school or the one who got 90% and above?
Title: Re: the Pareto Principle in training..
Post by: SOMEPARTS on November 13, 2019, 11:49:52 AM
20% = PED
Title: Re: the Pareto Principle in training..
Post by: joswift on November 13, 2019, 01:27:12 PM
80% is not good enough for Getbiggers.

Seriously, getting to 80% in anything is not a great achievement.  90% and above is required for success in higher competition.

Would you prefer a doctor who got 80% on his tests in med school or the one who got 90% and above?
totally missed the point, nice try though....

Think of it this way
1 set of ten reps, the last two reps give you 80% of the results, reps 1-8 give you the other 20%

you need both... ;)
Title: Re: the Pareto Principle in training..
Post by: Flexacon on November 13, 2019, 01:50:59 PM
Makes sense.

When I've done jobs where I've been on my feet all day I always struggled to add size. Sedentary desk jobs and I got fat.

Thinking of packing in my current desk job it and becoming a bin man. Short hours, finish work by lunch time, plus lots of Non-exercise activity thermogenesis.
Title: Re: the Pareto Principle in training..
Post by: IroNat on November 13, 2019, 02:23:31 PM
totally missed the point, nice try though....

Think of it this way
1 set of ten reps, the last two reps give you 80% of the results, reps 1-8 give you the other 20%

you need both... ;)

No. You missed it.

10 reps gets you to 80%.

10 sets of 10 gets you to 90%+.
Title: Re: the Pareto Principle in training..
Post by: Dokey111 on November 13, 2019, 03:11:45 PM
I just do the 20% part
Title: Re: the Pareto Principle in training..
Post by: Rambone on November 13, 2019, 04:51:41 PM
(https://img.yumpu.com/9278969/1/500x640/a-monthly-magazine-for-all-bodybuilding-fitness-and-parrillo-.jpg)

I only follow the Parrillo principles
Title: Re: the Pareto Principle in training..
Post by: pellius on November 13, 2019, 05:25:30 PM
Makes sense.

When I've done jobs where I've been on my feet all day I always struggled to add size. Sedentary desk jobs and I got fat.

Thinking of packing in my current desk job it and becoming a bin man. Short hours, finish work by lunch time, plus lots of Non-exercise activity thermogenesis.

What's a "bin man"?
Title: Re: the Pareto Principle in training..
Post by: Palumboism on November 13, 2019, 06:16:36 PM
It has been inferred the "Pareto principle" applies to athletic training, where roughly 20% of the exercises and habits have 80% of the impact and the trainee should not focus so much on a varied training.
This does not necessarily mean that having a healthy diet or going to the gym are not important, but they are not as significant as the key activities.

this is just a theory by the way but it makes sense...

This is absolutely true.  Focus on the compound exercises.
Title: Re: the Pareto Principle in training..
Post by: pellius on November 13, 2019, 06:46:56 PM
This is absolutely true.  Focus on the compound exercises.

Is that what he's saying? By "exercise and habits" it seems he's talking about the whole lifestyle. Like diet would be a good example when you consider the time and effort some put into weighing, measuring, keeping a record of every calorie and food group; tracking daily macronutrient ratios. Does it really make that much of a difference? I guess it's worth if you can find a sucker that cooks and prepares all your meals.

Then there's 5 sets versus 3 sets versus 9 sets. Should you do 8 reps? 10? 12? Toes in? Toes out on calf raises? Does it really make that much of a difference?

I think, say, the Nautilus type machines biceps are superior to free weights because it better matches your strength curve and provides full range of motion. But does it really help developed your biceps more? If Arnold did everything the same but used modern curling machines, even Basile's supinator, would his arms be even bigger and more peaked?
Title: Re: the Pareto Principle in training..
Post by: Flexacon on November 14, 2019, 01:19:48 AM
What's a "bin man"?

This



https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6_vxhZ2SBgA
Title: Re: the Pareto Principle in training..
Post by: joswift on November 14, 2019, 01:31:54 AM
No. You missed it.

10 reps gets you to 80%.

10 sets of 10 gets you to 90%+.

and yet again you have no understanding of the principle...
Title: Re: the Pareto Principle in training..
Post by: Humble Narcissist on November 14, 2019, 03:33:42 AM
Makes sense. If you just did bench/rows/squats a few days a week you'd get most of the benefits of weight training, physique and strength wise

This.  Almost everyone does too much.  Look on Youtube at some of the 30, 60 or 90 day transformations by guys doing just pushups.  They look better than most working out in gyms.
Title: Re: the Pareto Principle in training..
Post by: IroNat on November 14, 2019, 03:45:57 AM
To go from 80% to 90% or above in anything requires much more effort than going to 80%.

Most people are 80%ers.  They can't make themselves do the necessary work to go to the next level.
Title: Re: the Pareto Principle in training..
Post by: dan18 on November 14, 2019, 06:39:29 AM
To go from 80% to 90% or above in anything requires much more effort than going to 80%.

Most people are 80%ers.  They can't make themselves do the necessary work to go to the next level.
The next level is juice natty people can only go so far
Title: Re: the Pareto Principle in training..
Post by: funk51 on November 14, 2019, 07:24:28 AM
This



https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6_vxhZ2SBgA
     this is a guy who clearly loves his job. autographing his work with excellence at every opportunity.
Title: Re: the Pareto Principle in training..
Post by: IroNat on November 14, 2019, 09:48:30 AM
 ;D ^
Title: Re: the Pareto Principle in training..
Post by: Flexacon on November 14, 2019, 10:42:28 AM
    this is a guy who clearly loves his job. autographing his work with excellence at every opportunity.

The home owners would constantly overstuff the branch warren trash can despite warnings (you're not meant to overstuff them).

Each time they were overstuffed the garbage man would basically do the above. Home owners didn't know who was stealing their mailbox and bin so set the camera up.

Who is the bigger asshole here?
Title: Re: the Pareto Principle in training..
Post by: MarkyStevo on November 14, 2019, 10:53:57 AM
I agree! That type of training is intense. Good shit.
Title: Re: the Pareto Principle in training..
Post by: Humble Narcissist on November 15, 2019, 03:22:24 AM
To go from 80% to 90% or above in anything requires much more effort than going to 80%.

Most people are 80%ers.  They can't make themselves do the necessary work to go to the next level.
What's the point of taking it to the "next level" if you aren't competing?  The 80%'s are more likely to stay in shape their whole lives and not burn out.
Title: Re: the Pareto Principle in training..
Post by: IroNat on November 15, 2019, 05:03:26 AM
What's the point of taking it to the "next level" if you aren't competing?  The 80%'s are more likely to stay in shape their whole lives and not burn out.

I will draw an analogy using the game of golf.

Some people are content with going out a couple times a month and scoring in the 90-100 while some want to score in the 70s.

To go from being a 90-100 golfer (hacker) to a 70s golfer takes a lot of effort and time.  

Yes, most people don't want to spend many hours practicing and playing golf.  "Boy, I wish I could play better".  Wishing won't make it so.

Doing anything on a high level takes mucho time and effort.  Getting very high grades in school, great golfer, great bodybuilder, high flying businessman, etc.

80% is just ok.  Not hard to do.  Mediocre.  You don't need a "Principle" to figure that out.

Doesn't require too much effort.



Title: Re: the Pareto Principle in training..
Post by: Hypertrophy on November 15, 2019, 06:25:46 AM
I will draw an analogy using the game of golf.

Some people are content with going out a couple times a month and scoring in the 90-100 while some want to score in the 70s.

To go from being a 90-100 golfer (hacker) to a 70s golfer takes a lot of effort and time.  

Yes, most people don't want to spend many hours practicing and playing golf.  "Boy, I wish I could play better".  Wishing won't make it so.

Doing anything on a high level takes mucho time and effort.  Getting very high grades in school, great golfer, great bodybuilder, high flying businessman, etc.

80% is just ok.  Not hard to do.  Mediocre.  You don't need a "Principle" to figure that out.

Doesn't require too much effort.


I think you are missing the idea behind the initial post. The Pareto Principle states that 80% of your gains come from 20% of your efforts. This was first proposed describing economic activity. In my business I clearly see 20% of my products creating at least 80% of my profit. This has nothing to do with your efforts in those areas- it simply recognizes the way economics works.

If you expand this idea outside economics you might see the same thing- such as 80% of your muscular gains come from 20% of your exercises. Again, this has nothing to do with how hard you work at it- it just means that some things have a greater contribution to your objectives than others. So if instead of doing 20 different exercises to build a physique you find that the a few basic movements give you the biggest changes then that is your Pareto principle in action. Nothing stopping you from doing more exercises to get that 90% level...
Title: Re: the Pareto Principle in training..
Post by: Kwon on November 15, 2019, 06:52:15 AM
Principles of Peace

(https://images.sex.com/images/pinporn/2016/05/21/620/15744702.gif)
Title: Re: the Pareto Principle in training..
Post by: joswift on November 15, 2019, 09:02:50 AM
I think you are missing the idea behind the initial post. The Pareto Principle states that 80% of your gains come from 20% of your efforts. This was first proposed describing economic activity. In my business I clearly see 20% of my products creating at least 80% of my profit. This has nothing to do with your efforts in those areas- it simply recognizes the way economics works.

If you expand this idea outside economics you might see the same thing- such as 80% of your muscular gains come from 20% of your exercises. Again, this has nothing to do with how hard you work at it- it just means that some things have a greater contribution to your objectives than others. So if instead of doing 20 different exercises to build a physique you find that the a few basic movements give you the biggest changes then that is your Pareto principle in action. Nothing stopping you from doing more exercises to get that 90% level...
I wouldnt bother, hes never going to get it...

he cant even see the same pronciple applies to golf, the shot that puts the ball in the hole are the most important and that is around 20% or maybe 1% if you take 300 shots to get around the course..
Title: Re: the Pareto Principle in training..
Post by: Hypertrophy on November 15, 2019, 09:33:37 AM
I wouldnt bother, hes never going to get it...

he cant even see the same principle applies to golf, the shot that puts the ball in the hole are the most important and that is around 20% or maybe 1% if you take 300 shots to get around the course..

Exactly! I know a pro golfer- about one level below the PGA Tour. He told me that most of the gains in golf  are made learning to putt since most people can get the ball to the green pretty easily. He spent hours practicing just hitting the ball less than 10 feet.
Title: Re: the Pareto Principle in training..
Post by: ponal on November 15, 2019, 09:40:31 AM
Principles of Peace

(https://images.sex.com/images/pinporn/2016/05/21/620/15744702.gif)
;D
Title: Re: the Pareto Principle in training..
Post by: Kwon on November 15, 2019, 09:44:21 AM
MORE (peaceful, of course) PARETO PRINCIPLES IN ACTION (https://ve.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_pul8xg5yiA1y8ye6t_480.mp4)
Title: Re: the Pareto Principle in training..
Post by: IRON CROSS on November 15, 2019, 12:00:07 PM


this is just a theory by the way but it makes sense...



It's call "Safety Fat" principle  ;)
Title: Re: the Pareto Principle in training..
Post by: Kwon on November 15, 2019, 12:07:42 PM
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/178705e5b3d1c4c50bd9bb63063fd361/tumblr_ptftww5AJh1usscr8_1280.jpg)
Title: Re: the Pareto Principle in training..
Post by: oldtimer1 on November 15, 2019, 12:25:56 PM
Is that what he's saying? By "exercise and habits" it seems he's talking about the whole lifestyle. Like diet would be a good example when you consider the time and effort some put into weighing, measuring, keeping a record of every calorie and food group; tracking daily macronutrient ratios. Does it really make that much of a difference? I guess it's worth if you can find a sucker that cooks and prepares all your meals.

Then there's 5 sets versus 3 sets versus 9 sets. Should you do 8 reps? 10? 12? Toes in? Toes out on calf raises? Does it really make that much of a difference?

I think, say, the Nautilus type machines biceps are superior to free weights because it better matches your strength curve and provides full range of motion. But does it really help developed your biceps more? If Arnold did everything the same but used modern curling machines, even Basile's supinator, would his arms be even bigger and more peaked?

Regarding the magical cam on the Nautilus machine. I highly doubt that it was that thought out. Every time I bring this up someone copies and pastes what his followers would use to counter what I would say. They got a guy to post a mass of physics math equations with no values plugged in which amounted to deception claiming this is how the strength curves were figured out with the cams.
Title: Re: the Pareto Principle in training..
Post by: IRON CROSS on November 15, 2019, 12:46:29 PM
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/178705e5b3d1c4c50bd9bb63063fd361/tumblr_ptftww5AJh1usscr8_1280.jpg)

I travel light, my back backpack is 40L (PacSafe brand) Carry-on-Jet, BUT that arse must be at the least 80L capacity  :o ::)


 ;D
Title: Re: the Pareto Principle in training..
Post by: Kwon on November 15, 2019, 12:50:47 PM
I travel light, my back backpack is 40L (PacSafe brand) Carry-on-Jet, BUT that arse must be at the least 80L capacity  :o ::)


 ;D


How would you react with that arse in front of you?

(https://66.media.tumblr.com/ab176dcdeb4f8fcadea0224c3ef4afa7/6f0b46ac882b80ac-ea/s500x750/f48fa2129fe11c60779b5c717742baddd09baa7e.gifv)
Title: Re: the Pareto Principle in training..
Post by: IRON CROSS on November 15, 2019, 12:56:02 PM

How would you react with that arse in front of you?



Honestly I would get sick !, it's vomiting scenery.

I despise fat people to the max.

Title: Re: the Pareto Principle in training..
Post by: pellius on November 15, 2019, 09:54:36 PM
Regarding the magical cam on the Nautilus machine. I highly doubt that it was that thought out. Every time I bring this up someone copies and pastes what his followers would use to counter what I would say. They got a guy to post a mass of physics math equations with no values plugged in which amounted to deception claiming this is how the strength curves were figured out with the cams.

Nobody said it was magical. You have no idea how "thought out" it was let alone getting it into production. It was an advancement with what was currently available. Machine before were just pulleys and glides keeping the resistance in a fixed motion. The first Nautilus machine was the pullover. It allowed full range continuous resistance. Far superior to the dumbbell pullover which just put the maximum stress in the full stretch position getting less as you go through the movement until there is no stress at all on the lats by the time your elbows are in line with the shoulders. This was a Dorian mainstay.

Those free weight leg extension and leg curl machines were horrible. You only get full resistance, as you do with all full weight movements, when the resistance is perpendicular to the floor. The cam matched a person's strength curve far better.

And things have improved over the decades. There's a line of equipment with different cams that allow different variations in the strength curve.
Title: Re: the Pareto Principle in training..
Post by: Kwon on November 16, 2019, 12:05:06 PM
Honestly I would get sick !, it's vomiting scenery.

I despise fat people to the max.



Nobody said it was magical!
Title: Re: the Pareto Principle in training..
Post by: IroNat on November 16, 2019, 12:40:21 PM
Arthur Jones did not invent the cam.

It appeared on exercise machines many years before Nautilus.