Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: IronMagazine.com on December 06, 2019, 12:40:18 PM
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I’M GOING TO JAIL, SARMS BAN 2020
On Nov. 18 2019, China introduced new laws banning production and export of SARMs.
Read/Watch --> http://bit.ly/2Pm8EIJ
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Are they not manufactured in other countries as well?
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Are they not manufactured in other countries as well?
Yeah but China is the biggest source so expect a big price increase, including research chems and peptides.
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I’M GOING TO JAIL, SARMS BAN 2020
On Nov. 18 2019, China introduced new laws banning production and export of SARMs.
Read/Watch --> http://bit.ly/2Pm8EIJ
I've bolded the key word here in your post.
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Some raw sources are also closing shop.
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I've bolded the key word here in your post.
Yup.
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Yup.
These means you.
From here.
Call it a hunch.
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These means you.
From here.
Call it a hunch.
I guess, but the bill has been proposed and China has taken action, so you do the math.
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WHO CARES!! Test is the BEST!
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Some raw sources are also closing shop.
They’ll open up in India and from what I’ve heard are already doing so. It’s still 50/50 on the hormone ban. It is a very large market and if it does happen it will be driven underground, either way expect some sort of price hike in the next year.
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Are they not manufactured in other countries as well?
Indian pharmaceutical industry can make anything ;), just visit !.
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They’ll open up in India and from what I’ve heard are already doing so. It’s still 50/50 on the hormone ban. It is a very large market and if it does happen it will be driven underground, either way expect some sort of price hike in the next year.
There are still raw suppliers in Romania, Austria, etc. Just cost a lil more.
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There are still raw suppliers in Romania, Austria, etc. Just cost a lil more.
Romania....lol...only a fucking tard would have anything to do with Romania.
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Romania....lol...only a fucking tard would have anything to do with Romania.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=254816.0;attach=296192;image)
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Romania....lol...only a fucking tard would have anything to do with Romania.
EU & NATO country !.
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Romania....lol...only a fucking tard would have anything to do with Romania.
Lol @ you thinking your opinion matters
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Lol @ you thinking your opinion matters
I believe it’s a fact that you’re the biggest shithead on this forum. I’ve never read one post stating you’re anything but a drug dealing, loser c unt.
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Lol @ you thinking your opinion matters
And you follow up with....
I believe it’s a fact that you’re the biggest shithead on this forum. I’ve never read one post stating you’re anything but a drug dealing, loser c unt.
Again, thinking your opinion matters.
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WHO CARES!! Test is the BEST!
There is no comparison to what a SARM does and testosterone, do some research genius.
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One of the bigger resellers in the US was ordering his inventory from Canada.
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There are still raw suppliers in Romania, Austria, etc. Just cost a lil more.
I wasn’t aware they are actually producing there or is it a distribution point in which China sends to?
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Any reason given for scheduling SARMs?
Idiotic.
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There are still raw suppliers in Romania, Austria, etc. Just cost a lil more.
What about gh?
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=254816.0;attach=296192;image)
Hahahaha! Flashback! The days.... ;D
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Isn't India a large SARM supplier for raws?
If UGL's are still making Test, DBol, Anavar and everything else under the sun, I'm sure SARM's will still be available by UGL's.
(At a price, yes).
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What about gh?
I don't deal much with GH. Profit margin and risk of bunk shit isn't worth it. I usually just refer customers to gh suppliers.
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A day after the China ban, the U.S. reintroduced an amended version of the SARMS Control Act of 2018 to classify SARMS as a Schedule III controlled substance.
But, this act is a long way from being passed:
Introduced on Nov 19, 2019
This bill is in the first stage of the legislative process. It was introduced into Congress on November 19, 2019. It will typically be considered by committee next before it is possibly sent on to the House or Senate as a whole.
A bill must be passed by both the House and Senate in identical form and then be signed by the President to become law.
Prognosis: 4% chance of being enacted according to Skopos Labs
Essentially, the Bill was (re)introduced in November. Even "if" it passes the Committee, it will still need to pass the House... then the Senate... then the President.
Reference: https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/116/s2895
With the pending scarcity of raws available, a market price increase wouldn't surprise me the least bit, but I think the ban of above-board SARM sales is a good ways off.
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How about you concentrate on your career and family? Forget about drugs. If you need the praise for being manly because of your drug use you have bigger problems than your source drying up. The physique is temporary unless you want to cycle high dose and low dose for decades until you have a stroke, heart attack or an enlarged prostate. Lung cancer if you use trent.
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How about you concentrate on your career and family? Forget about drugs. If you need the praise for being manly because of your drug use you have bigger problems than your source drying up. The physique is temporary unless you want to cycle high dose and low dose for decades until you have a stroke, heart attack or an enlarged prostate. Lung cancer if you use trent.
Since when does tren cause lung cancer?
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WHO CARES!! Test is the BEST!
For me also.
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Since when does tren cause lung cancer?
Second trimester usually.
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It'll be fine.
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For me also.
If you new what a SARM does you would understand that there is no comparison to testosterone.
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If you new what a SARM does you would understand that there is no comparison to testosterone.
To be honest, I don't know shit about SARMS. How are they different from Testosterone and all other Testosterone based compounds? I know that's a lot to ask so if you want to just refer me to some links where I could research on my own that would be OK.
Which would you recommend for just basic size and strength compound? How do the side effects compare with oral anabolics. Maybe a list of the few basic most popular ones that I can look up and research as to how to properly use and cycle them. Also, what is your company that sells these? They're still legal in the U.S. PM if that works better for you.
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To be honest, I don't know shit about SARMS. How are they different from Testosterone and all other Testosterone based compounds? I know that's a lot to ask so if you want to just refer me to some links where I could research on my own that would be OK.
Which would you recommend for just basic size and strength compound? How do the side effects compare with oral anabolics. Maybe a list of the few basic most popular ones that I can look up and research as to how to properly use and cycle them. Also, what is your company that sells these? They're still legal in the U.S. PM if that works better for you.
The main SARMS for size, the mildest at top, strongest at bottom.
Ostarine (MK-2866)
LGD-4033
Testolone (RAD-140)
HGH secretagogue:
MK-677 (Nutrobal)
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A SARM is a 'Selective Androgen Receptor Modulator' so they are developed to focus only on the intended tissues and not the whole body. Basically, they are intended as steroids without most of the negative side-effects.
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To be honest, I don't know shit about SARMS. How are they different from Testosterone and all other Testosterone based compounds? I know that's a lot to ask so if you want to just refer me to some links where I could research on my own that would be OK.
Which would you recommend for just basic size and strength compound? How do the side effects compare with oral anabolics. Maybe a list of the few basic most popular ones that I can look up and research as to how to properly use and cycle them. Also, what is your company that sells these? They're still legal in the U.S. PM if that works better for you.
SARMS Matrix E-Book
http://www.ironmagazine.com//ebooks/SARMS-Matrix-Ebook.pdf
(this is not mine, nor am I promoting anything, just a free ebook)
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The main SARMS for size, the mildest at top, strongest at bottom.
Ostarine (MK-2866)
LGD-4033
Testolone (RAD-140)
HGH secretagogue:
MK-677 (Nutrobal)
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A SARM is a 'Selective Androgen Receptor Modulator' so they are developed to focus only on the intended tissues and not the whole body. Basically, they are intended as steroids without most of the negative side-effects.
Name of medical clinic where was tested, thanks !.
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Name of medical clinic where was tested, thanks !.
Several SARMs such as Ostarine are in clinical testing with big pharma companies.
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Several SARMs such as Ostarine are in clinical testing with big pharma companies.
Names !.
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GTX Pharma holds the patent on Ostarine and it is in phase 2 clinical testing.
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GTX Pharma holds the patent on Ostarine and it is in phase 2 clinical testing.
Google : sarms clinical testing
Not too many positive comments !!!.
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The main SARMS for size, the mildest at top, strongest at bottom.
Ostarine (MK-2866)
LGD-4033
Testolone (RAD-140)
HGH secretagogue:
MK-677 (Nutrobal)
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A SARM is a 'Selective Androgen Receptor Modulator' so they are developed to focus only on the intended tissues and not the whole body. Basically, they are intended as steroids without most of the negative side-effects.
So it doesn't stress the liver and kidneys like oral steroids do?
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SARMS Matrix E-Book
http://www.ironmagazine.com//ebooks/SARMS-Matrix-Ebook.pdf
(this is not mine, nor am I promoting anything, just a free ebook)
Thanks! I'll check it out.
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Name of medical clinic where was tested, thanks !.
Ostarine, LGD and MK-677 have been tested in human clinical trials for decades. RAD-140 has not.
Here is one for MK-677:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18981485
Here's one dealing with several SARMS:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6039107/
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So it doesn't stress the liver and kidneys like oral steroids do?
They're not supposed to, they're non-methylated.
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Ostarine, LGD and MK-677 have been tested in human clinical trials for decades. RAD-140 has not.
Here is one for MK-677:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18981485
Here's one dealing with several SARMS:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6039107/
Interesting. MK-677 increased hgh and igf levels but there was no difference compared to the placebo group in abdominal fat but there was an increase in limb fat with the MK-677 group. Also fasting blood sugar levels and insulin resistance went up with the use of MK-677. And it was interesting that the increase in fat-free mass did not result in any changes in strength and functional ability.
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Interesting. MK-677 increased hgh and igf levels but there was no difference compared to the placebo group in abdominal fat but there was an increase in limb fat with the MK-677 group. Also fasting blood sugar levels and insulin resistance went up with the use of MK-677. And it was interesting that the increase in fat-free mass did not result in any changes in strength and functional ability.
Though they were elderly patients and not lifting weights or probably not even doing much exercise.
Note also that their bone mineral density increased. And their 'fat free mass significantly increased' by an average 2.7 kg's and daily usage 'significantly increased growth hormone and insulin-like growth factor I levels to those of healthy young adults without serious adverse effects.'
It does not increase strength, but the main advantage for training is the much quicker recovery from exercise and injuries, increased energy, and also deeper sleep. It also gives a fuller look to muscles.
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MK-677 beats even GH for quick size plus the appetite
increase is great for me.
Did GH and MK separately as well as together earlier in the year and MK is more useful to me.
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If you're questioning the effectiveness of SARMS or MK-677 I suggest you give them a try and find out for yourself.
There is a reason the government is trying to make SARMs a controlled substance, cause they work! :)
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If you're questioning the effectiveness of SARMS or MK-677 I suggest you give them a try and find out for yourself.
There is a reason the government is trying to make SARMs a controlled substance, cause they work! :)
Do U promote 'juice business' on yours website too ;)
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I’M GOING TO JAIL, SARMS BAN 2020
On Nov. 18 2019, China introduced new laws banning production and export of SARMs.
Read/Watch --> http://bit.ly/2Pm8EIJ
Who cares! They are GARBAGE!
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If you're questioning the effectiveness of SARMS or MK-677 I suggest you give them a try and find out for yourself.
There is a reason the government is trying to make SARMs a controlled substance, cause they work! :)
I don't think it has anything to with if they work. I suspect it's at least partly due to WADA lobbying. They just don't like substances banned, by them, floating around in regular society. They have complained for years about China and their PED production. But really, what does the larger society care about what WADA thinks is fair in sports? They shouldn't dictate things like this - but they are worried that Joe Public loses all respect for tested sport and stop seeing PEDs as evil. Everyone and their brother will be on drugs "for longevity and daily performance". Who cares about their drug moralizing at that point?
I know people, now elderly, who hated steroids with a passion. They were evil somehow. These are the guys who may still refuse TRT even if it helped them - because steroids are baaad.
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Though they were elderly patients and not lifting weights or probably not even doing much exercise.
Note also that their bone mineral density increased. And their 'fat free mass significantly increased' by an average 2.7 kg's and daily usage 'significantly increased growth hormone and insulin-like growth factor I levels to those of healthy young adults without serious adverse effects.'
It does not increase strength, but the main advantage for training is the much quicker recovery from exercise and injuries, increased energy, and also deeper sleep. It also gives a fuller look to muscles.
I can only surmise that the increase in fat with the MK-677 group was due the increase appetite
that the compound allegedly stimulates. It makes absolute no sense that an increase in lean muscle mass didn't produce an increase in strength. Was that additional muscle inert? I think the problem is being able to properly measure strength because there are so many variables involved.
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I can only surmise that the increase in fat with the MK-677 group was due the increase appetite
that the compound allegedly stimulates. It makes absolute no sense that an increase in lean muscle mass didn't produce an increase in strength. Was that additional muscle inert? I think the problem is being able to properly measure strength because there are so many variables involved.
Yeah, one researcher who ran studies on MK at a university hospital near me said the compound worked very well for GH and IGF-1 but it would be hard to market with the appetite sides, therefore unlikely to reach the commercial market.
GH increases lbm too but "everyone" thinks the "lbm" isn't muscle protein for the most part, it's all the other stuff that registers as lbm. Strength can go down with preserved or even increased muscle if you are inactive (testosterone/inactivity studies).
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Yeah, one researcher who ran studies on MK at a university hospital near me said the compound worked very well for GH and IGF-1 but it would be hard to market with the appetite sides, therefore unlikely to reach the commercial market.
GH increases lbm too but "everyone" thinks the "lbm" isn't muscle protein for the most part, it's all the other stuff that registers as lbm. Strength can go down with preserved or even increased muscle if you are inactive (testosterone/inactivity studies).
Van,
Did you also gain a lot of water on it?
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Van,
Did you also gain a lot of water on it?
Yes, actually to an unhealthy degree. It only seems to happen in a bad way if I'm doing a too many roids, on say 500mg of test I'm fine. I mean I have put on 10lbs in 2 days with it (2 pills) - all water of course, causing edema on ankles etc. I couldn't achieve that even on 200iu of insulin :D
I think this must be very unhealthy so I would suggest figuring out how to eliminate the edema if this happens.
Even 5mg works though it seems 20-30mg is average dose. Studies used up to 100mg. From what I remember most of the effects are reasized at about 10-20mg.
If I were in the US where I could easily get peptides, I would love to try MK with CJC-1295 (with DAC). Lots of claims of people achieving crazy IGF-1 levels, some comparing it to 8-10iu of pharma growth.
People seem sceptical over something sold so openly and cheap, they think it must be shit. Kind of like juicers laughed a Superdrol and M1T - how could they work if it was sold at bb.com. Those are some of strongest steroids ever sold. Some of the best drugs ever were sold at bb.com, think about it.
As far as the SARMs go, I don't think they have been shown to do anything steroids can't do. Conventional anabolics can rightly be called SARMs also. SELECTIVE effects is the keyword, which is why anabolics were developed in the first place. They wanted more muscle, less sides, same as with SARMs. It would be a lie to say SARMs barely have sides - you cannot divorce anabolic effects from all androgenic effects. So they aren't interesting to me - but sure if I found they had some unique properties I'd consider them.
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If you're questioning the effectiveness of SARMS or MK-677 I suggest you give them a try and find out for yourself.
There is a reason the government is trying to make SARMs a controlled substance, cause they work! :)
Or because there is not one single reliable study about them regarding human health.
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SARMs and Testosterone (AAS)
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IGF-1 increases with MK-677 only on higher doses though there is still a large increase of HGH at lower doses.
For instance, at 10-15 mg you're mainly getting the benefits of HGH.
Also people will take this to increase their quality of life, heal from injuries, reduce pain, increase energy and sleep better.
And again, MK-677 at 25 mg was shown to put these levels at those of a young adult.
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IGF-1 increases with MK-677 only on higher doses though there is still a large increase of HGH at lower doses.
For instance, at 10-15 mg you're mainly getting the benefits of HGH.
Also people will take this to increase their quality of life, heal from injuries, reduce pain, increase energy and sleep better.
And again, MK-677 at 25 mg was shown to put these levels at those of a young adult.
"IFG increase ONLY on higher doses/ Large increase in IGF on lower doses."
I'm confused.
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"IFG increase ONLY on higher doses/ Large increase in IGF on lower doses."
I'm confused.
I have read a study which showed that on lower doses it's mainly HGH which increases, IGF to a lesser degree, but there is still an increase.
At higher doses, for instance at 20 mg, the HGH increase is not that much more than at 10 mg, however at 20 mg the IGF-1 will be considerably higher, eg: let's say 150 % increase instead of 50 %.
So there is a lower dosage level for diminishing returns for an increase in HGH and a higher dosage level for diminishing returns for IGF-1.
In summary, at lower doses MK-677 mainly increases HGH, but at higher levels it starts to considerably increase IGF-1 as well.
This was my understanding at least.
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SARMs and MK-677 absolutely work and anyone who says they don't has obviously not tried them.
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SARMs and MK-677 absolutely work and anyone who says they don't has obviously not tried them.
Just state your medical qualifications & name medical centre where do you work, thanks ;D
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Just state your medical qualifications & name medical centre where do you work, thanks ;D
I am self employed and I do not sell SARMs.
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I have read a study which showed that on lower doses it's mainly HGH which increases, IGF to a lesser degree, but there is still an increase.
At higher doses, for instance at 20 mg, the HGH increase is not that much more than at 10 mg, however at 20 mg the IGF-1 will be considerably higher, eg: let's say 150 % increase instead of 50 %.
So there is a lower dosage level for diminishing returns for an increase in HGH and a higher dosage level for diminishing returns for IGF-1.
In summary, at lower doses MK-677 mainly increases HGH, but at higher levels it starts to considerably increase IGF-1 as well.
This was my understanding at least.
I thought their was a direct correlation between HGH and IGF. The higher the HGH the higher the IGF. I thought it was one of the ways they measured HGH output.
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I am self employed and I do not sell SARMs.
What did you mean when you started this thread? I know it was a flippant comment about going to jail but it implied that you sell SARMS.
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I am self employed and I do not sell SARMs.
Do U work as 'gym chemist' :)
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Do U work as 'gym chemist' :)
You're funny.
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What did you mean when you started this thread? I know it was a flippant comment about going to jail but it implied that you sell SARMS.
I posted a YouTube video by Kenny KO.
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I see MK-677 referred to by two different names: Nutrabol and Ibutamoren.
What is the difference?
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Do U work as 'gym chemist' :)
No, that's me.
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I see MK-677 referred to by two different names: Nutrabol and Ibutamoren.
What is the difference?
Nutrabol is just a brand name.
Ibutamoren: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibutamoren
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Who cares! They are GARBAGE!
exactly - worthless imho
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exactly - worthless imho
Have you tried anything besides the fat burner Cardarine?
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Have you tried anything besides the fat burner Cardarine?
-I cannot recall the name, the sarm that mimics HGH.
-GW50516 was junk (cardarine) however it is spelled
I tried to like Sarms and gave them a legit long term try. but was not impressed at all.
you are better taking 20mg of legit anavar daily than any sarm. get your diet, cardio in check an 20 mg of anavar is better than any sarm or sarm protocol. and you take 20mg of var for a loooooong time and not have liver issues as long you are all around healthy
I am not biased, just going on personal experience.
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I thought their was a direct correlation between HGH and IGF. The higher the HGH the higher the IGF. I thought it was one of the ways they measured HGH output.
MK-677 is a secretagogue which means the drug sends a signal to the pituitary gland to increase the body's own production, so in that sense it works differently to injectable HGH which is synthetic and exogenous.
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-I cannot recall the name, the sarm that mimics HGH.
-GW50516 was junk (cardarine) however it is spelled
I tried to like Sarms and gave them a legit long term try. but was not impressed at all.
you are better taking 20mg of legit anavar daily than any sarm. get your diet, cardio in check an 20 mg of anavar is better than any sarm or sarm protocol. and you take 20mg of var for a loooooong time and not have liver issues as long you are all around healthy
I am not biased, just going on personal experience.
Cardarine is a fat burner, so not going to do much, if anything at all.
However, SARMs are not stronger than regular oral steroids, no one is arguing this, but the main advantage is much less side effects while still gaining a few pounds of muscle.
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Nutrabol is just a brand name.
Ibutamoren: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibutamoren
Ah, OK. Thanks!
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MK-677 is a secretagogue which means the drug sends a signal to the pituitary gland to increase the body's own production, so in that sense it works differently to injectable HGH which is synthetic and exogenous.
OK, but the more GH you produce the IGF you will also produce, no?
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Yes, actually to an unhealthy degree. It only seems to happen in a bad way if I'm doing a too many roids, on say 500mg of test I'm fine. I mean I have put on 10lbs in 2 days with it (2 pills) - all water of course, causing edema on ankles etc. I couldn't achieve that even on 200iu of insulin :D
I think this must be very unhealthy so I would suggest figuring out how to eliminate the edema if this happens.
Even 5mg works though it seems 20-30mg is average dose. Studies used up to 100mg. From what I remember most of the effects are reasized at about 10-20mg.
If I were in the US where I could easily get peptides, I would love to try MK with CJC-1295 (with DAC). Lots of claims of people achieving crazy IGF-1 levels, some comparing it to 8-10iu of pharma growth.
People seem sceptical over something sold so openly and cheap, they think it must be shit. Kind of like juicers laughed a Superdrol and M1T - how could they work if it was sold at bb.com. Those are some of strongest steroids ever sold. Some of the best drugs ever were sold at bb.com, think about it.
As far as the SARMs go, I don't think they have been shown to do anything steroids can't do. Conventional anabolics can rightly be called SARMs also. SELECTIVE effects is the keyword, which is why anabolics were developed in the first place. They wanted more muscle, less sides, same as with SARMs. It would be a lie to say SARMs barely have sides - you cannot divorce anabolic effects from all androgenic effects. So they aren't interesting to me - but sure if I found they had some unique properties I'd consider them.
Thank you for the info and feedback.
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-I cannot recall the name, the sarm that mimics HGH.
-GW50516 was junk (cardarine) however it is spelled
I tried to like Sarms and gave them a legit long term try. but was not impressed at all.
you are better taking 20mg of legit anavar daily than any sarm. get your diet, cardio in check an 20 mg of anavar is better than any sarm or sarm protocol. and you take 20mg of var for a loooooong time and not have liver issues as long you are all around healthy
I am not biased, just going on personal experience.
I'm not questioning your account. I'm just wondering if you got bad (under-dosed or outright phony) product.
Cardarine is generally used as a fat-burner and endurance/output booster.
User feedback is almost always outstanding for both effects. Since the performance boosting effects are something felt in a short time of use, I would have expected you to at least notice that.
Not asking for names, but did you try products from more than one vendor?
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MK-677 is a secretagogue which means the drug sends a signal to the pituitary gland to increase the body's own production, so in that sense it works differently to injectable HGH which is synthetic and exogenous.
I find that to be a bad thing. Maybe your pituitary gland will burn out from overuse. Whereas if you take it exogenously your glands will "rest".
Our body is gradually wearing out, at all levels, doing that will speed the process. My 2 cents. Hope i am wrong.
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I find that to be a bad thing. Maybe your pituitary gland will burn out from overuse. Whereas if you take it exogenously your glands will "rest".
Our body is gradually wearing out, at all levels, doing that will speed the process. My 2 cents. Hope i am wrong.
Hmm, an interesting perspective and a valid concern. I've read you should cycle it. Why? A young person produces a lot of GH for years and as they get older they produce less which is one of the causes of aging. Wouldn't it be better if they continued to produce the same GH at 20 yrs then at 50 yrs? That continual GH release than "cycling"?
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OK, but the more GH you produce the IGF you will also produce, no?
My understanding is that at 25 mg the increase in HGH will not be that much higher than at 10 mg but at 25 mg the IGF will be a lot higher than 10 mg. I don't know why this would happen though.
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I find that to be a bad thing. Maybe your pituitary gland will burn out from overuse. Whereas if you take it exogenously your glands will "rest".
Our body is gradually wearing out, at all levels, doing that will speed the process. My 2 cents. Hope i am wrong.
That is why it should be cycled.
However, a study has shown that eventually the pituitary gland stops reacting to the drug and the body goes back to its normal levels of production. It did not cause any burn out.
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I'm not questioning your account. I'm just wondering if you got bad (under-dosed or outright phony) product.
Cardarine is generally used as a fat-burner and endurance/output booster.
User feedback is almost always outstanding for both effects. Since the performance boosting effects are something felt in a short time of use, I would have expected you to at least notice that.
Not asking for names, but did you try products from more than one vendor?
it was a few years back. I cannot recall who I went with.
maybe I need to give them another shot. send me your info via PM
for a figure/bikini chic - what is the GW50516 dosing anything? any info how it works for fat burning for girls
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Cardarine is a fat burner, so not going to do much, if anything at all.
However, SARMs are not stronger than regular oral steroids, no one is arguing this, but the main advantage is much less side effects while still gaining a few pounds of muscle.
got it. comparing apples to oranges etc etc
I firmly believe a low dose of anavar 20mg long term has little side effects (not shut down, limited liver issues) and the gains, feeling is amazing (pumps etc etc)
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Hmm, an interesting perspective and a valid concern. I've read you should cycle it. Why? A young person produces a lot of GH for years and as they get older they produce less which is one of the causes of aging. Wouldn't it be better if they continued to produce the same GH at 20 yrs then at 50 yrs? That continual GH release than "cycling"?
Latest research do not support that belief. Google David Sinclair. He is ahead of everyone regarding life extension.
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Latest research do not support that belief. Google David Sinclair. He is ahead of everyone regarding life extension.
Yeah, Dr.Sinclair is #.1 in his field !.
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Who cares! They are GARBAGE!
Really, wonder why big pharma companies like Gtx are putting 100's of millions of $ into bringing them out as Rx drugs then.
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Really, wonder why big pharma companies like Gtx are putting 100's of millions of $ into bringing them out as Rx drugs then.
not all clinical trials and R&D fgo as planned. why Bio Pharma stock prices sky rocket up and down all the time. even Pfizer has had plenty of failed drug roll outs etc
for the price and what is else out there - its a tough call. I would pass
instead of spending $200-$300 a month on Sarms that money is better off going to premium food (top shelf eggs, veggies, premium fish)
id rather spend $200- $300 a month personal training than sarms
I think sarms have a wide appeal as they come in droppers etc etc too.
I am always willing to change my opinion as times goes on so we will see
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The main SARMS for size, the mildest at top, strongest at bottom.
Ostarine (MK-2866)
LGD-4033
Testolone (RAD-140)
HGH secretagogue:
MK-677 (Nutrobal)
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A SARM is a 'Selective Androgen Receptor Modulator' so they are developed to focus only on the intended tissues and not the whole body. Basically, they are intended as steroids without most of the negative side-effects.
all androgens are "SARMS"
every steroid out there is developed to take away specific side effects and retain the anabolic effect.
the new SARMS on the market are just newly designed steroids as far as I understand it.
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not all clinical trials and R&D fgo as planned. why Bio Pharma stock prices sky rocket up and down all the time. even Pfizer has had plenty of failed drug roll outs etc
for the price and what is else out there - its a tough call. I would pass
instead of spending $200-$300 a month on Sarms that money is better off going to premium food (top shelf eggs, veggies, premium fish)
id rather spend $200- $300 a month personal training than sarms
I think sarms have a wide appeal as they come in droppers etc etc too.
I am always willing to change my opinion as times goes on so we will see
Yes, but many already buy enough food and have a personal trainer. It's not like it's one or the other. You can have enough food, training, and SARMS.
And what's the appeal with droppers? Taking a pill is much easier and convenient, especially if you have to take a product several times a day. Who wants to carry a dropper bottle then measure out the exact amount.
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And what's the appeal with droppers? Taking a pill is much easier and convenient, especially if you have to take a product several times a day. Who wants to carry a dropper bottle then measure out the exact amount.
Capsules are combined with various "fillers" that can compromise the concentration of the active ingredient in each cap - i.e., one capsule may contain a "smidge" more of the AI, while another capsule may contain a "smidge" less... some caps may be spot on.
A quick shake of liquid inside of a glass vial eliminates those inconsistencies.
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=254816.0;attach=296192;image)
Wish he would come back.....and bring Stewart Swerdlow with him.
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the new SARMS on the market are just newly designed steroids as far as I understand it.
SARMs are not hormones genius.
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Everyone that I know that used MK677 just held water. Had a horrible moon face.
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Everyone that I know that used MK677 just held water. Had a horrible moon face.
Did they get their igf measured?
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SARMs are not hormones genius.
They might as well be. It's kinda like saying tamoxifen is synthetic estrogen. Like Patrick Arnold said years ago, SARMs are pretty much anabolic steroids with a politically correct name. No, most of them a don't have a steroid structure. Some of them they can't even classify, like YK-11... Pat said it has a structure unlike anything he's seen before.
If you go on pubmed and type in trenbolone + SARM you will see how all anabolic steroids can be called SARMs.
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Some of you may know who Brian Batcheldor is.
Some stuff on mk-677
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10157577616828332&id=655678331
MK677 – The story so far .....
Following on from my last piece on MK-677, I just wanted to review anecdotal feedback from users regarding pros and cons. It’s not my mission to educate the gym community about this stuff, but it is a pet peeve when it comes to utter trash knowingly being re spun as information for someone’s backhanded hidden agenda. As for spiking supplements with GHs/GHRPS/SARMs, -that’s another f*****g story! There are no free rides with these compounds, they’re not totally risk free and no retailer can say for sure whose hands they’ll end up in. Most consumers would likely struggle to believe that this kind of shit really goes on, but it does, believe me. I actually have a gagging order on me at this very moment in relation to the conduct of a huge PLC that consented to spike some crappy range with a stimulant just to get their blending business. The only problem is they decided to blend the garbage in an exterior facility, -one used by both a giant of the pharmaceutical industry and one of the world’s major confectionery producers. How contaminated? Think less “raisin and biscuit” and more “disco biscuit” in your chocolate bar! Once they did it, they thought they could bury it by laying off the staff involved and setting up the new owner of the business as the fall guy. Wait till the shit hits the fan with this one!
First off, I think the effects of MK-677 on sleep are interesting. Based on the reports of lethargy, many people seem to have felt it wiser to take the whole dosage before bed. I guess this also fits in with the study that noted increases in REM sleep and decreases in deviations from normal sleep in both young and old subjects. There was also a decrease in REM latency in older subjects. This wasn’t a particularly large study, with 8 young and 6 older subjects. Despite being referred to as “prolonged use”, the test period was 14 days. Admittedly it was matched against a placebo and there were high and low dose protocols, but it would have been useful to have recorded the effects on sleep with the earlier long-term studies out there. This becomes even more relevant when you consider that this was being looked at as a quality of life product, getting enough decent sleep is a major issue to many older people and if you told any of them you were about to give them something that could mess about with their sleep they’d probably tell you to f**k off. As I pointed out, this is a small study, whilst the positive effects were linked to the higher dosage, its difficult to assess all the compounding factors that could influence the results with such small numbers. So how does this reflect in the feedback from its rise in popularity? Without a doubt, sleep disturbances were the biggest gripe, -hands down. For some, this was quite profound, requiring an immediate switch to morning dosing. To be honest, I feel a bit of a twat here, -I always felt that this was the best approach anyway, I think I could have made that point clearer in my last review on here. Let’s forget all the stuff about endocrine changes being transient, -whilst prolactin and cortisol drop back into the normal range in most younger subjects after a short period, cortisol remains elevated in older subjects for much longer. It’s probably this that accounts for anecdotal reports of increased blood pressure after sustained use (8 weeks +). But it’s the immediate cortisol response that will be enough to disturb sleep patterns with many when taken at night, even though study results vary a bit, we can still predict such a response via this advance in both the stages of sleep and the cortisol peaks in the circadian rhythm. Please note: SLEEP IS A BAD THING TO FANNY ABOUT WITH; if experimenting with MK677, you’ll easily be using it for long enough to upset your sleep pattern for a prolonged period if you persist with taking it before bed whilst it’s causing insomnia, -it’s probably not a good idea to take it at this time. Unlike MK-677, hexarelin is a peptidyl GHS, but it’s possible to draw parallels with its effect on the sleep-wake cycle. I’ve had plenty of experience with hexarelin use over the years; iv, sc or intranasal, - it’s a great peptide with some excellent properties. I’ve also got a colleague who produced a hexarelin product for the international antiaging sector for many years (through Worldpharma), we’ve both seen how this can adversely impact sleep with evening use. Therefore, reviewing general feedback with GHRPs/GHSs, I think it’s clear to see that most reports of lethargy stem from PM use, the dramatic rise in the use of MK-677 has brought reports of this being unbearable to the point of discontinuation. Yet the contrast with AM use couldn’t be more striking; I’m typically seeing quality gains of around 4 kg (under 3 weeks) in responders being backed up with improved sleep quality, constant muscle fullness, incredible pumps, vivid dreams, elevated mood and, of course, that ravenous appetite that it’s become renowned for. As a bonus, those who have done any blood work will have found that the IGF-1 response to dosing is far more prolonged than with any other secretagogue/peptide. In fact, I feel that most people contemplating the use of this oral GHS have though it would be like using the poor second cousin of the injectable GHRPs, -nothing could be further from the truth. One of the criticisms put to me involved desensitization to MK-677 and eventual diminishing returns. Research in animals revealed that any attenuated GH response is mediated by IGF-1 and not by desensitization to MK-677, this was identified from coadministration with GH itself. So reflecting on that last observation, there wouldn’t seem to be much point in taking GH and MK-677 together, but “underground research” is saying otherwise. I’ve heard this a few times over the last year, but a trusted colleague and world-renowned strength coach has run his own trial with a group of lifters, there’s certainly a 1 + 1 =3 scenario going on here. The combination of 12.5 mg and 2 IU GH yielded results beyond those normally associated with each, particularly in terms of fat loss. Exogenous GH will elevate blood levels for around 8 hours, thus this was taken PM. The MK-677 was taken on an empty stomach right before an AM training session, but this could be upon wakening on a non-training day. To lower/block somatostatin, which puts the break on GH production, 200 mg of epigallocatechin (EGCG) from green tea and 200 mcg of the nootropic compound huperzine A were taken at the same time as the MK 677. We consulted on this protocol, it’s been used to great effect by many in recent times, -huperzine A impacts somatostatin through its efficacy as a reversible acetylcholinesterase (AChE) inhibitor, EGCH increases this activity (verified by studies). This was also taken with 3 g of L-arginine and 2.2 g of ornithine, those and similar dosages have been supported by numerous studies over the years, arginine alone was the conventional approach to increasing GH/testing function. I’ve seen studies that typically demonstrate a 150% increase in GH when taken on an empty stomach by healthy individuals, strength training can increase this figure. Before anyone brings it up, I want to pick up on a popular criticism of huperzine, that being that it causes “GH bleed”. This theory has been put out there by a long-term peer in the industry, the idea being that it causes GH to be trickled in response and thus blunts the big surge you would otherwise get from using a GHRP/GHRS. The concept is nonsense, - reversible AChE inhibitors are known to blunt somatostatin, pyridostigmine is a drug that effectively elevates GH through this action, it has successfully been used both to test pituitary function and in combination with peptides like hexarelin to synergistically increase GH. There have been clinical comparisons between huperzine and pyridostigmine that established a similar impact on somatostatin; pyridostigmine is additive in its effect on the GH pulse response to hexarelin and GHRH. Would this little cocktail only be effective when using GH with MK 677? No, -I only mention it because it makes sense, I think it would certainly help when taking a full dose of MK-677 on its own. Is it perhaps an impractical combination? Again, no, -you’ll find these ingredients out there, you’ll get some variation in the dosage of L-arginine and ornithine, but you should be able to get thereabouts. As for the EGCH, you’ll need to source that within a green tea product, -look for what percentage EGCG it’s standardized for and calculate how much of the powder/capsules you need to take to hit the 200 mg. Just a brief final note on using MK 677 with GH, -this combination now makes total sense if you opt to use a low dose GH regimen in the future, a half dose of MK-677 would probably mitigate the negative feedback loop that would normally bring endogenous GH production to a grinding halt. Personally, I wouldn’t use MK-677 for more than two months continuously without some kind of break or switching to a peptidyl GHS, -something with a more transient effect in the body (e.g. heharelin). Why would this be? Ghrelin itself is a stress hormone, this is independent of its effects on cortisol. Protracted exposure to elevated Ghrelin can lead to adverse effects, which can include depression and anxiety, -it’s even been shown to enhance fear conditioning without any interaction from the HPA axis, perhaps that’s why it’s also been linked to disorders like PTSD! Ghrelin and GH are known to work together in the amygdala area of the brain to enhance fear, -MK 677 is a Ghrelin mimetic, it easily crosses the blood-brain barrier and has a half-life of over 6 hours. Joining the dots, this ease of access to the brain and the sustained release of GH, which vastly differs to the effects of the well-studied GHRPs and peptidyl GHS’s, means that prolonged use of MK-677 over many months could lead to the same effects seen with the prolonged Ghrelin elevation. I know you can readily find data showing a relatively long (in our game) history of use and clinicals of 2-year duration, but I also know that nobody will be looking at this kind of neurobiology. No need to change your underwear yet though, the hard evidence about adverse effects isn’t there yet and all feedback has been positive so far. Just stick to the guidelines, besides, those 1-2 month breaks will give you a chance to restore insulin sensitivity where applicable.
Whichever regimen you chose, I would still stick to using GH-REM at bedtime, both to support endogenous GH production and to help stem rises in prolactin through it’s L-dopa content. The sleep promoting effects should also help those that may be a little sensitive to transient rises in cortisol, but there is also one other reason. MK-677 use has been shown to increase leptin in the short term in young obese subjects, of course there’s no way of knowing if it was equally reversible in older users. With any cardiac condition/concerns, prolonged elevation of leptin has been significantly associated with pathogenic risk, the same goes for stroke, -higher leptin levels are found in those suffering from post-stroke depression. It’s safe to say that, like Ghrelin itself, elevated leptin is linked with several mood disorders. L-dopa intake is known to blunt the leptin response, this is another reason why I would suggest taking GH-REM whilst using MK-677, as its L-dopa content should impact any potential rise in leptin, temporary or otherwise. I cannot overstress this recommendation; a small group of MK-677 users who had that profound lethargy response immediately resolved this with the combination of lowering the dose and taking GH-REM. I have a major sleep disorder myself and have found added benefit from using this at night, -just make sure it’s a good 2.5 + hours after your last meal.
Years ago, the late Dan Duchaine and I shared the same agent for our seminars/consultations, the beautiful Shelley Hominuk. I will always remember Shelley telling me about Dan’s response to the judge when given his opportunity to speak before sentencing and after receiving the standard waffle about hoping he had seen the error of his ways. Dan, who had pretty much raised himself since a kid and had regularly suffered long bouts of illness in relation to the same kidney disorder that was sadly his premature demise, retorted with something pretty fitting in the current environment; “Error??? Anabolic steroids permit me to live in an enhanced state, -why wouldn’t I choose to live in an enhanced state?” Of course, we now know that all that glistens isn’t gold with AAS. We also pretty much know that there is more sensible use and damage limitation, but it’s still not truly an enhanced state, not if we closely look at what that would entail, -physically, mentally and medically. Again, I don’t want to get drawn on this publicly for various reasons. However, today we are heralding in a new era, one where we can perhaps approach that goal of The Enhanced State through the new tools we have available to us. As long as there is some integrity left and there are discerning customers, we can facilitate this through the growing milieu of peptides and other compounds becoming available, like MK-677 and other GHRPs and GHSs, PPAR agonists, Body Protection Compounds, peptides targeting telomerase activity/stress, nootropics, compounds promoting mitochondrial biogenesis, etc. As we’ve already seen with the various versions of MK-677 floating around, integrity will likely be the biggest hurdle.
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Is that p1ss..?
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=254816.0;attach=296192;image)