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Getbig Main Boards => General Topics => Topic started by: walking sculpture on April 18, 2006, 06:19:50 AM
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Just watched it. How come the name Keith Jones is not in the credits?
Hummmmmm..........
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cos he got cut from the film ::)
hmmmm................... ..
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"Meet me halfway............acros s the sky........up where the world belongs to only you and I....oohhhhhh!"
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Onlyme was shafted
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hes already explained it a million times, he was cut from the part in favor of that other giant guy
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hes already explained it a million times, he was cut from the part in favor of that other giant guy
yeah....but we have to hear the story again!
;D
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Oh my the movie never got this much press. I got cut out. Here is a shot from the filming of the movie. I had dozens of these but lost them over the years. I may have a few more laying around. I am way more sorry than you for not getting credit. I would still be getting residuals if I was. The other pic is me and the guy who took my place Ric Zumwalt at another tournament somewhere. Thanks for bringing up old BAD memories
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stop beating yourself up Keith, it wasnt your fault you werent as good as Ric Zumwalt! lol ;D
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I think onlyme was the guy who did the turning of the baseball hat 180 degrees "when things got serious"?
Later on copied by 'Sly' Stallona.
What a bitch. >:(
onlyme needs to put that little weasel in his place sometime.
YIP
Zack
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Residuals? it flopped, how do u get paid for a film that made nothing
You residuals for life as long as the film is playing somewhere. Everytime it is on TV, video sales etc. That is why we had a great union.
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does sly still residuals for this crap
Sly got paid if I remember $14 million for this film. A portion of the proceeds from the film was also donated to Autism which his sons suffers from. He also delayed filiming several times because he re-wrote the script and wanted to train more. I had copies of the first few rewrites. In fact I kept allot of the scripts I had for other thngs but when I stored everything in Tony Halme's storage space and he got in a fight with his girlfriend everything got thrown out by her.
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$14 million !!!! shit, that was in the 80's also, f**k he did well. Keith, how do they keep track of when a movie plays overseas etc??
That's what the union dues are for? {lol}
In Canada we have "The Performers Rights Society" ACTRA PRS ( a separate branch within the union) that tracks worldwide usage and act as a collection agency on behalf of performers. They track the residuals making sure everyone gets paid. It's much easier these days with electronic tagging etc., but tracking radio & voice-over spots can prove challenging.
Most established voice talent I know develop a network of programmers who often tip them off when their stuff is used. Advertisers would routinely re-use spots in different markets and not pay performers. It was up to the performers to prove their work was actually being used, ...then it was ooopsie here ya go. My friend Steve in LA was constantly getting calls from radio program directors in the midwest, letting him know some ad agency was using his stuff, and some people's voices are so recognizeable, it gets harder to slip it by. I sometimes get a kick out of listening to a commercial or watching a cartoon, and realizing my friend is doing the voice-over.
We had a situation up here where one producer swore a particular TV show was shelved. Then in the middle of union contract negotiations with producers, one negotiator pulled out a copy of a Florida TV Guide, ...and threw it in the producers face. Sure enough, ...there was the show prominently listed in the evening lineup. BUSTED!
SAG went out on strike for 6 months to ensure both accountability and the timely & accurate payment of residuals... among other things. Feature Films are much easier to track than Radio & TV commercial spots though. Plus there's so much mutual co-operation among all performer unions worldwide as far as ensuring performer resids that talent in features rarely get screwed. When they do, it's upfront in the contract when they used to pay royalties on the net. Hollywood studio accounting is notorious. Now the resids are calculated on the gross. SAG's contracts may differ, but ACTRA's stipulate the greatest ratio split from the highest paid cast member to the lowest paid cast member can be no more than 20:1, ...so for every $20,000 in resids earned by the marquee, "Man on bike" makes a grand.
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Allot of times at least with commercials you are paid as a "Buyout". whihc means they pay you a one time fee and have free reign with whatever it is. There are tracking services that keep track of everything. My agent always told me to mark down day and time of every commercial I see on TV with me so we can match it to the tracking results. It has been along time but if remember with your check usually comes a statement of when and where you show or commerical played during that time period. And they do makes mistakes. The froeign market is harder to track. My Gillette commercial where I shave my head played extensively in Puerto Rico and the Mexican market. I got paid my daily plus buyout costs plus my photoshoot for the billboards and posters. I made $8,300 for the day. Beliveve me I would much rather have made residuals cause that commerical aired forever and in fact won a Cleo and from what I was told aired on the johnny Carson show when he used to play best foreign commercials. I never saw it but someone told me they saw it years before. Also, the longer a show airs or commericals plays the residuals get less and less. They start off pretty good but the more they play the less you get. I have not done a commercial or anything since 1995. My last thing was a McDonalds commercial. I recently went on the SAG website and found out I have more than 10 years of residuals payments sitting there waiting for me to claim. SO I am filing to see howmuch it is. SHoudl be pretty good. We'll see.
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Keith they only get less & less over time because the ad buys get less and less.
After the commercials stop pulling the same response rates, they usually replace with with newer one.
Ah yes! The unexpected residual cheque. That's always nice. ;D
I just love opening the mail and finding one.
In our union newsletters, we have a section called: "The cheque is here but no one is home", where they print the names of members with residuals sitting there, but no current address, or agent on file to which to send the cheques. I can't tell you how many times I've had to call people to say "Go get your money!"
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thanks for the reply guys... so stallone still gets paid for his rocky and rambo's? they must air somwehere in the world daily
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thanks for the reply guys... so stallone still gets paid for his rocky and rambo's? they must air somwehere in the world daily
Well in the case of Stallone and Rocky, ...I think his deal could possibly have been a little different.
No doubt he's still making bank on those, they still rent in video stores. But in Stallone's case, he owns the Rocky franchise. It was his creation. The studio wanted to buy it and use it as a vehicle for Ryan O' Neal. Could you picture Ryan O' Neal as Rocky Balboa? {lol} Neither could Stallone. Stallone said "No way José! You make this picture with me, ...or you don't make it at all!" In the case of performers who are also producers, they are the one's paying out the residuals to the other actors. In the case of Drew Barrymore for example, who produced Charlie's Angels, she (or her production company) is the one making all the profits, of which a portion is paid out to the individual performer's including Drew herself, who was hired by her own corporate entity.
That's the beauty about properly structuring yourself to mitigate taxes as well as other potential liabilities.
A corporation has a smaller tax liability than an individual employee. A corporation can hire an employee for minimum wage even if that employee is the owner of that corporation. The corporation can also extend loans to it's employee, which requires repayment, (however, bad debts can be written off, and terms of repayment renegotiated) ;) The point is it cannot be taxed on the individual. But the best part... is when the employee is so leveraged to the eyeballs, and indebted to that corporation to such an extent that the corporation has a first creditor position on every asset owned by the individual, they are downright bullet-proof. See if any lawyer (ambulance chasing or otherwise), will even bother to sue you under those conditions. HA! ;D
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With films you get paid your fee whatever is negoitated by your agent or the SAG minimum depnding on your amount of time working. You get paid a daily or weekly or contract. I did stunts to and I got paid extra for that on top of my weekly fee. And if you don't get the stunt done right the first time you get paid again to do it. I have a video of me jumping off a ship into the water. I actually hit the bottom of the bay. Anyway I came up and the director say great. But the stunt coordinator wanted me to do it again. SO I said into the camera I'll do it cause I get paid again. Also, with a film it is allot easier to track than commercials. Cause residuals are paid on video sales also. Residuals are paid in time frames. Like maybe 6 months or 1 years. Commercials paid every month. When I moved to Hawaii in 89 I lived off my residuals. Enough to pay my rent and every other bill I had. My friend Manny Perry who is a former Mr. USA and was Louie stnt double in The Hulk series, and I think started the Black Stuntman Association with I forgot his name) told me one time hewas bringing in close to $250,000 a year alone in residuals. He has been in well over 100 films and shows. My good freind Eddie Braun who got me into stunts easily makes $200,000 a year in just residuals. He doubles people like Jackie Chan, Charlie Sheen, Tony Danza and allot others. There is absolutely no business like show business. The greatest money for the least amount of work. I loved it. Oh my last residual check I actually collected which was back in 95 but I have over 10 years of a bunch piled up was from Aaron Spelling Productions for $1.16 for an episode of Dynasty I worked on. Now that's huge. Unless you are a regular, or have a reoccurring role in a show that goes to syndication, residuals are not bad but definitely something you can live on. When a show goes to syndication is when a TV star makes HUGE money.
I personally was not in many TV shows or movies, I was a commerical actor mostly. Good money work only a few days a month. Easy. Stunt work is where I wanted to stay but I had a falling out with Eddie and even other stunt coordinators wanted to hire me but he had me black balled.
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With films you get paid your fee whatever is negoitated by your agent or the SAG minimum depnding on your amount of time working. You get paid a daily or weekly or contract. I did stunts to and I got paid extra for that on top of my weekly fee. And if you don't get the stunt done right the first time you get paid again to do it. I have a video of me jumping off a ship into the water. I actually hit the bottom of the bay. Anyway I came up and the director say great. But the stunt coordinator wanted me to do it again. SO I said into the camera I'll do it cause I get paid again. Also, with a film it is allot easier to track than commercials. Cause residuals are paid on video sales also. Residuals are paid in time frames. Like maybe 6 months or 1 years. Commercials paid every month.
Umm, ...theatrical residuals are paid out per quarter, and commercial resids are calculated in 13 week cycles.
When I moved to Hawaii in 89 I lived off my residuals. Enough to pay my rent and every other bill I had. My friend Manny Perry who is a former Mr. USA and was Louie stnt double in The Hulk series, and I think started the Black Stuntman Association with I forgot his name) told me one time hewas bringing in close to $250,000 a year alone in residuals. He has been in well over 100 films and shows. My good freind Eddie Braun who got me into stunts easily makes $200,000 a year in just residuals. He doubles people like Jackie Chan, Charlie Sheen, Tony Danza and allot others. There is absolutely no business like show business. The greatest money for the least amount of work.
I'm not sure but I think it was Christopher Plummer who had been sitting around a set visibly agitated one day, ...and the director commented "That's why you get paid the big bucks" to which he immediately quipped "You are incorrect Sir, I act for free. I get paid the big bucks for sitting around and waiting!"
I loved it. Oh my last residual check I actually collected which was back in 95 but I have over 10 years of a bunch piled up was from Aaron Spelling Productions for $1.16 for an episode of Dynasty I worked on. Now that's huge.
{rotflmao} You beat me.
And here I thought I had just received the smallest residual cheques in the history of Canadian television.
I'm sitting here with 2 residual cheques on my desk One was for a Canadian TV show I did in 1998 for $9.84, which is ok, cause I've consistently made a lot of money from that particular show, and the other is for a different Canadian TV show I did in 1987 for $3.05. ::) The hilarious part is the one for $3.05 is the first & only residual cheque I've ever gotten from that show. I didn't even remember doing it. {lol} One is dated for Oct 17, 2005, the other for Oct 19, 2005. I couldn't be bothered to make a special trip to the bank to deposit those, and I kept forgetting about them. Considering they both went void as of a few days ago, I don't think I'll be calling PRS to have them re-issued. The last residual cheque I opened from PRS was for $1900.oo, so you can imagine how excited I was when I opened the mailbox and saw 2 of them in there. Man was I ever cheesed off when I opened those envelopes. {lol}
Unless you are a regular, or have a reoccurring role in a show that goes to syndication, residuals are not bad but definitely something you can live on. When a show goes to syndication is when a TV star makes HUGE money.
Hmmm... I could be wrong, but isn't syndication when you essentially lose all your resids. I remember when Seinfeld finally had enough episodes for syndication, the rest of the cast held out for $1,000,000 an episode on the front end... same with the cast of Friends.
I personally was not in many TV shows or movies, I was a commerical actor mostly. Good money work only a few days a month. Easy. Stunt work is where I wanted to stay but I had a falling out with Eddie and even other stunt coordinators wanted to hire me but he had me black balled.
Keith, if you ever get back into it, lemme know. I have a good friend of mine who works as a stunt co-ordinator, based out of NYC, but frequently commutes between LA & Toronto as well to co-ordinate shows.
this is why Will Smith makes alot of cash, Fresh prince of belair is still airing in Asia, Australia, England and middle east
(http://valdefierro.com/prince33.jpg)
{LOL} Fresh Prince is still airing in Canada as well. Don't forget too he still makes royalties off all his records sales too, and the MIB franchise & the Bad Boyz franchise is still renting like crazy. Go into any video rental store and you will not only find multiple rentals available, but also new DVDs of those for purchase. They're still selling quite well. Every once in a while I will also see "Six Degrees of Separation" airing on TV as well, so there's no shortage of resids rolling into his household.
The ones who really made out like bandits though are all the cast of The Lord of The Rings Trilogy!!! They shot for something like a year & a half, ...in Australia. I mean with the travel time, hold-overs on location, per diems etc., even if they any of them worked at scale (which I highly doubt) that would still have been a bloody fortune just on the front end. Can you imagine the backend resids on the DVD sales? :o
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Residuals? it flopped, how do u get paid for a film that made nothing
BWahahahahaha..... :P
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Umm, ...theatrical residuals are paid out per quarter, and commercial resids are calculated in 13 week cycles.
I'm not sure but I think it was Christopher Plummer who had been sitting around a set visibly agitated one day, ...and the director commented "That's why you get paid the big bucks" to which he immediately quipped "You are incorrect Sir, I act for free. I get paid the big bucks for sitting around and waiting!"
{rotflmao} You beat me.
And here I thought I had just received the smallest residual cheques in the history of Canadian television.
I'm sitting here with 2 residual cheques on my desk One was for a Canadian TV show I did in 1998 for $9.84, which is ok, cause I've consistently made a lot of money from that particular show, and the other is for a different Canadian TV show I did in 1987 for $3.05. ::) The hilarious part is the one for $3.05 is the first & only residual cheque I've ever gotten from that show. I didn't even remember doing it. {lol} One is dated for Oct 17, 2005, the other for Oct 19, 2005. I couldn't be bothered to make a special trip to the bank to deposit those, and I kept forgetting about them. Considering they both went void as of a few days ago, I don't think I'll be calling PRS to have them re-issued. The last residual cheque I opened from PRS was for $1900.oo, so you can imagine how excited I was when I opened the mailbox and saw 2 of them in there. Man was I ever cheesed off when I opened those envelopes. {lol}
Hmmm... I could be wrong, but isn't syndication when you essentially lose all your resids. I remember when Seinfeld finally had enough episodes for syndication, the rest of the cast held out for $1,000,000 an episode on the front end... same with the cast of Friends.
Keith, if you ever get back into it, lemme know. I have a good friend of mine who works as a stunt co-ordinator, based out of NYC, but frequently commutes between LA & Toronto as well to co-ordinate shows.
{LOL} Fresh Prince is still airing in Canada as well. Don't forget too he still makes royalties off all his records sales too, and the MIB franchise & the Bad Boyz franchise is still renting like crazy. Go into any video rental store and you will not only find multiple rentals available, but also new DVDs of those for purchase. They're still selling quite well. Every once in a while I will also see "Six Degrees of Separation" airing on TV as well, so there's no shortage of resids rolling into his household.
The ones who really made out like bandits though are all the cast of The Lord of The Rings Trilogy!!! They shot for something like a year & a half, ...in Australia. I mean with the travel time, hold-overs on location, per diems etc., even if they any of them worked at scale (which I highly doubt) that would still have been a bloody fortune just on the front end. Can you imagine the backend resids on the DVD sales? :o
Don't you have a job? That has to be the longest, most boring post in the history of getbig.
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My friend Manny Perry who is a former Mr. USA and was Louie stnt double in The Hulk series, and I think started the Black Stuntman Association with I forgot his name) told me one time hewas bringing in close to $250,000 a year alone in residuals. He has been in well over 100 films and shows.
Keith,
I'm not suggesting you buy a Flex magazine...but the next time your in the Grocery Store, read the latest copy. Your friend Manny as a nice article on him.
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Don't you have a job? That has to be the longest, most boring post in the history of getbig.
{ROTFLMAO}
Ya know Bmacsys, whenever I said in the past, that I thought you had ADHD, I was always joking...
...but you just proved to me that you really do. {lol} j/k ...i think ;)
HELLO!!!! Do I have a job? HELL NO! I don't have a job. I have a life, one I have designed myself. ;D
For the past 17 years, I have structured my life and pursued endeavors that produce passive residual income.
"Residual income" is income (money, cash, profits etc) that continues to pour in passively, long after the initial work has been done. I engage only in activities that produce the maximum ROI (return on investment)
"Linear income" is income that pays you only once. It's trading your time for money and is repugnant to me. In order to make more money, you have to work more hours, and that means a significant cap on your income because there are only so many hours in a day, week, month or year. That means you have a cap on your potential income. Not only is there a cap on your income, ...you have no freedom to enjoy your life cause you're spending all your time working.
One could work a linear job (architect) that pays $10,000 / month for 365 days earning $120 G's a yr.
or...
One could spend 1 day shooting a commercial and pull in $120G's/yr in residuals and still have 364 days free.
Now follow along very closely now....
What would happen, if you chose to invest another day shooting another commercial with the same ROI?
You would be able to accomplish financially, in 2 days, what it takes an architect 2 whole years to do.
...and you'd still have another 363 days left in the year to occupy yourself anyway you chose.
It's a very simple principle called leveraging, and it's something the rich know and implement into their lives.
It's like setting up a pinball machine or even a slot machine. It weighs a tonne, but once you haul it out of the van and set it up, it starts to produce income for you. Every once in a while you collect the money, ...and if you're smart, you'll reinvest it into another passive income producing vehicle, so that the income produced for you accrues, and continues to grow and pour in at an ever increasing rate. That example I just gave you about the pinball machines btw is how Warren Buffet got started. Eventually, you will reach a point where you no longer have to work for money, and are free to pursue whatever you choose to.
Investing energy into residual income producing activites can reap rewards beyond most people's dreams.
I've seen people set themselves up for LIFE with as little as an extra $300 in monthly passive income.
Many who want to benefit from passive residual income might say "what the heck is $300? I spend more than that on my weekly bar tab.", but with an extra $300 leveraged properly and compounded, you can do wonders. You might say that's all well and good, but I'm not a rapper, a film actor or a stunt man... to which I would say so what? You don't have to be.
The fact that you aren't any of these things could very well be an advantage rather than an obstacle, because the entertainment industry is full of golden hand-cuffs, politics, mind games, black balling etc., and no matter what, ...you are still an EMPLOYEE (a form of leverage for your employers) without the ability to control your life and/or destiny. Infact, not having easy entréz into these professions, could very well be a blessing in disguise, in that, you are then forced to find another opportunity to reap passive residual income.
You just have to know how to spot the right opportunities to create successful leverage.
Every situation, properly perceived, becomes an opportunity. But you have to act on them if you're going to be successful. Distant pastures always look greener than those close at hand, but real opportunities are right where you are. You must simply take advantage of them when they appear. You can start where you are at any time. Success is all around you. It's not in your environment, it's not in luck or chance, or in the help of others. Success is in yourself alone. You don't need more strength, or more ability or greater opportunity.
What you need is to use what you have. Learn to seize good fortune, cause it is always around you.
You must go to success, it doesn't come to you. Open your own doors to opportunity.
So that's exactly what I did. Very early on, I decided the lifestyle I wanted, and I knew it sure as heck wasn't spending the best years of my life working my tush off for 40 yrs in exchange for a gold watch, and a few yrs of playing shuffleboard before my teeth fell out and I would need a walker along with someone to change my diapers.
I started with the end result in mind, and backtracked from there. I determined what would be required in order to achieve my goals, but more importantly, I took action. I made mistakes along the way, ...but I'm grateful for each and every one of them because they became valueable instruments in my education. I didn't have the freedom to remain unemployed, so when I did take jobs, I purposely sought work that had some aspect within it that required the flexing of certain muscles. I purposely chose work with benefits. And by benefits, ...I'm not refering to medical or dental coverage. {lol} I chose work that enabled me to feed 2 or more birds with 1 worm.
They provided me with, among other things:- 1. The education I needed, both theoretical & practical
- 2. The ability to improve, fine tune, and hone these skills
- 3. The patience & discipline I would need
- 4. The freedom to fail and experience setbacks
- 5. The capacity to slingshot & fastrack
- 6. The ability to be in the right place at the right time
- 7. The right attitude, etc., etc., etc.,
No matter what job I held, for whichever employer, I wasn't working for them, ...I was working for me.
I still continue to work for myself, only now, I do what I do because of a desire to give back and to help others achieve the very same freedom in their lives, and it is rewarding beyond belief. I will continue to generate income, whether I get out of bed in the morning or not. The difference in my life is... unlike the majority of most North American's, ...I can't wait to bounce out of bed to start my day, because my avocation is one of my own choosing, with which come the most incredible rewards.
For those who may be curious about what I do feel free to visit my online video presentation (http://www.jaguarenterprises.biz) website
Hope That Helps,
(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/Judi-Sig50.jpg)
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No it aint, its informative. I enjoyed his posts as i enjoyed keiths'posts
{blush} :-[
Thanks Quickerblade
ps - I'm a she. :P
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I don't fully understand syndication, but I do know when a shows goes to it the money is huge. I just heard someone got a $40 million paycheck cause their show went to syndication. You are right about the 13 week pay period I think but I had as many as 4 Nationals playing at one time and was getting checks monthly. I got my last check in 1995. I do have 11 years of residual checks stockpiling at SAG. I went on their website and you can check. There are 2 pages of froms you have to fill out and mail in. I am going to do that just to see how much. I'll be pissed if it is 11 years of Aaron Spelling checks for Dynasty. Even thought with the Soap Channel they are playing General Hospital and Knotts Landing I think too. I know Dangerous Curves plays a few times a year on the USA channel. Back in 1997 they were thinking about re-releasing my Gatorade commercial. And at one time even the Apple one with updated systems. So who knows I may have $100 waiting for me. I'm just glad I paid back my loan from the SAG credit union. Or I may not get anything and still owe
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I don't fully understand syndication, but I do know when a shows goes to it the money is huge.
{LOL} I hear ya. The thing with syndication is that prior to it, a show like say "Friends" or "Seinfeld" would only be broadcast on the NBC network. Syndication, allows any other network, or TV station, independant or otherwise, regardless of the network affiliation, to air the show as well. Most people mistake television programs as vehicles for entertaining the masses, but once you lift the robes, clear away the cobwebs, and shine a light on things, the harsh reality is, TV programs exist as a medium to deliver commercials. Many eyeballs on a TV show, mean many advertisers trying to reach the very demographic that show delivers. That's why you'll see great shows get cancelled. It's not because they're not good, or because they don't have an audience. It's because they don't deliver the right audience. Who cares if boys 18 - 25 are watching it? The advertiser who wants to air commercials on this network is trying to reach women 40+. Syndicated shows have a proven track record of delivering precise demographics. They are more of a sure thing than a new show, so advertisers consistently pay more to have those shows deliver their ads.
So now, in syndication, instead of being on the air between 7-7:30pm, one night a week, an actors face can be on the air 7 days a week, across all the networks, independant stations, specialty channels, and through out various time slots, ...anywhere in the world. They are in a gadzillion places at once. Their work, is creating countless selling opportunities for advertisers, and the networks rake it in hand over fist as a result. This poses a tremendous problem for the actor because, now, their images and the characters they create, (whether they be goofy oddballs, stoic heroes, murderous villians, or little goody goodies) take on a life of their own, and are forever embedded in the minds of the public. They may never work again, because:- 1) -The audience may refuse to accept them in any other role. (I think Stallone would kill to do Shakespeare ...but who wants to see it?) That's why Jessica Biel (7th Heaven) did a Playboy spread, in order to shatter the good little church girl image, and why Maureen McCormick (Marsha Brady) after the demise of the Brady Bunch refused to accept any role unless she could play a biyotch. Bruce Willis was smart. He took the money and ran. After MoonLighting, he caught a break with Die Hard, then he got out while he still could and made projects he wanted to make. Ya the "Die Hard" franchise was good to him, but if he hadn't escaped when he did, I doubt he would have been accepted in "The Sixth Sense" or the upcoming animated film "Over the Hedge" from the makers of Shrek & Madagascar (I'm sooo looking forward to seeing that) :P
- 2) -No producer is going to want to hire a guy who when audiences see him say "Hey, that's the XYZ cookie kid!" What sponsor would advertise on that show? You want the audience to focus on your product, not your competitor's.
Through commercials and syndicated programs, advertisers are leveraging off your image, which they can project all over the market indiscriminately. During which time, ...the performer is essentially out-of-work, ...but his captured image continues to deliver consumers, and sell products, upon which the ad agencies, advertisers, networks etc are all enriched. How about the actor? That's why you should NEVER do non-union. Over-exposure can kill a career before it starts. It can also kill a successful one too. Just ask Ben-nifer? :D Thank Goodness she can sing, and has already parlayed alot of her earnings into other business ventures. Her fragrance line is fabulous. She might lay low for a few years, and re-emerge just like Madonna did after her "Sex" book. That was just far too much exposure if ya ask me. ::) This is why there needs to be residuals for actors in the industry. Without them, actors may leave the business altogether, once the initial thrill of seeing their faces on TV wears off, ...and trust me, ...it wears off real quick. Producers also need to keep a stable pool of talent to select from.
I just heard someone got a $40 million paycheck cause their show went to syndication.
I can see it. I've never starred in or had a re-occuring role in a show that got syndicated. I've done episodes in syndicated shows, but doing 1 episode in a series that had a 6 yr run doesn't really weigh down the wallet when you consider how many actors, regular cast, guest stars, day players, under 5's, guest directors etc also worked on those shows. That's 100's of episode, with thousands of performers and other residual income attracting independant contractors, with whom all of those residual profits must be shared.
When I initially said you lost resids for syndication, I was thinking about syndicated shows in Canada. {lol} Traditionally our market has always been much smaller, with only a few companies producing TV shows. Of course these same companies are so vertically integrated, that they also had distribution as well, and when they syndicated, they always sold the shows to themselves with sweetheart deals. {lol} The earlier story where I mentioned the producer getting busted because of the Florida TV guide was just such a case. As a result of that, court orders came down, books were seized and the forensic accountants rolled their sleeves up. Based on the given exchange rate, we were able to determine exactly when the show had been sold. Because it was such a sweetheart deal, when they tallied it all up, the 2nd lead, who had worked in 96 out of 104 episodes over 4 years, came away with a royalty cheque of $1,000 ...FOR 25 YEARS USE!!! :o No joke! Meanwhile, just 9 months earlier, she had guest starred in only one episode of "Murder She Wrote" with Angela Lansbury, for which she had already received close to $11,000 in residuals, and counting. Needless to say, our negotiators played some serious hardball after that, and our next negotiation, we walked away with resids on the gross, not the net, and introduced the 20:1 ratio for talent.
Then there were all those poor guys in the 60's who worked on such syndicated shows like Gilligan's Island, Star Trek etc. Back then, Sherwood Schwartz offered them upfront buy-outs or back-end resids. Considering the level or "art" these shows were, ...most actors took the upfront money and thought they were making out like bandits. At the time, the entire cast, except Tina Louise (who was a very serious Broadway actress who was deceived into taking the role, and whose career was ruined by the show), had an absolute laugh riot making what they all thought was a bunch of silly little fluff, ...and it was silly fluff, but audiences lapped it up, ...and bought whatever products were advertised during the commercial breaks. Little did they anticipate the show would be so successful. And none of them foresaw the invention of the VCR. {lol} Nowadays, the contracts are hundreds of pages long, coveraging just about every forseeable contingency during filming and beyond, as well as stipulating residuals be due if/when the work is repurposed, or repackaged, and distributed, not only theatrically, but also on free TV, cable TV, pay-per-view, subscription channels, by means of video cassettes, DVD's, or any other anticipated or unanticipated future technology on earth, ...or in the universe. I kid you not! The universe part always cracks me up. ;D They still have buy-outs, but they are four 4 years use ONLY. After that, residuals are due, and they are based on the distributor's gross not net, and must be divied up with no greater than a 20:1 ratio among all members of the cast. So in exchange for our fees + an additional 130% of those fees, producers have 4 years to milk as much profit in as many markets worldwide, with as many uses, as they can before they have to start sharing it with the cast. Some theatrical productions will opt for a smaller % buyout, your negotiated fee + an additional 50%, as an advance against a greater percentage of distribution grosses.
The producer's had a field day when VCR's first came out. They started selling video-cassettes of classics, for which the performers never made a dime. The same happened with musicians and compact discs. Now we make sure it never happens again. TV will never be as effective, and the revenues will never be as good as they were during the "Golden Age of Television" when there was really only 1 market with 3 stations, a few shows in the evening and all eyeballs were on them. You competed with maybe 2 other programs and of course 'Uncle Miltie' was King, and 'Lucy' was Queen. Now a days we've got hundreds of channels (cable, specialty, free, pay-per-view, subscription etc.,) international satellite programming, videos, DVDs, xBox, Tivo, internet programming, etc. The markets are fractured beyond anything ever anticipated, and the reality is it's harder & harder for producer's to turn a profit in such a fragmented market using the traditional distribution model and compensation structure. Advertising is spread out across too many channels. Even though the focus is tighter, and hits more precise, for the traditional TV producer it's harder to make a dime in TV. Ad buys aren't as great. The majority of the profit comes from repackaging copywrites in auxiliary markets or overseas. Right now India has the world's fastest growing middle class, but when China hits, ...it is going to be CRAZY! ;D
BTW - When you hear about a TV star receiving a Ferrarri as a gift from a network executive, ...where do you think the executive gets the money for such an extravagant gift? Obviously it comes from his employers at the network, ...but where do you think the network gets the money to pay it's employees so well? Of course, ...from the Ad agencies, and the ad agencies get it from, ...their clients, ...and the clients get it from... padding the cost of their products that they sell to the public. That's right guys, ...they get it from me & you. With so much of the product cost going into advertising, ...how much do you think is left over to ensure product quality? With enough spaced repetition, a product doesn't have to be all that good to sell well. It just has to appear often enough, in enough commercials, on enough billboards, in enough scenes in a TV show, in enough magazines, with cool, sexy looking models, for people to feel compelled to buy it. If it was so good, why would they have to spend so much money telling you it was, couldn't they just let word-of-mouth do it? It works so well for everything else? There's a funny scene in "Thank You For Smoking" where the tobacco lobbyist is taking a meeting with a product placement agent. They're discussing the launch of a new cigarette. It was to co-incide with the release of a new futuristic space movie wherein Brad Pitt & Catherine Zeta-Jones make wild passionate monkey love, afterwhich they roll over ...and light up a smoke. Sure-fire guarantee to sell cigarettes. :D And that's why actors make so much money.
You are right about the 13 week pay period I think but I had as many as 4 Nationals playing at one time and was getting checks monthly. I got my last check in 1995. I do have 11 years of residual checks stockpiling at SAG. I went on their website and you can check. There are 2 pages of froms you have to fill out and mail in.
SAGs jurisdiction is so large, and membership requirements so miniscule, that it would be impossible for them to print all the shows, as well as all the actors for whom residuals are accruing in a newsletter or on a webpage. Under SAG, you get 1 union job and you can join the union, whereas in Canada, you have to successfully compete against union actors and land 6 union jobs within a fixed time period before you can gain membership. We have something like 18,000 members and that's including everyone ...extras, voice-overs, and stunts alike. A while back we did a huge recruiting drive, lowered the membership qualifications and our numbers doubled over night. More importantly tho, we dried up the non-union talent pool, forcing producers to become union signatory if they wanted product made by pros, that didn't look like it was cast with a bunch of amateurs and wannabes :D Still we're only 18,000 across Canada. SAG has at least that many members just along 5 blocks of Wilshire Blvd. alone. {lol} :D The French performers have their own union in Quebec, and most of our bi-lingual actors have dual membership in 'ACTRA' and it's Quebec equivalent 'Union des Artiste'. And you're at quite an advantage to land a national spot in Canada if you are bi-lingual and hold dual membership. Advertisers can simply hire one spokeperson, and shoot both versions of the commercial at the same time, one in English, the other in French. The beauty is, the shoot days are inevitably longer, and you make 2 session fees for the same work. The resid split on the commercials are obviously different though. If you're not bi-lingual, with dual membership chances are you're looking at regional or wildcard spots, but they can be pretty good too, ...especially if they start airing south of the border. You can instantly multiply your resids tenfold then. The only exception to the bi-lingual rule is if you're shooting MOS or SOC. You don't have to know English, French or any other language for that matter, let alone be fluent in it. You could be a deaf mute and still make bank :D
Normally for Film & TV, what ACTRA does is to quarterly publish the list of names of the shows (including working titles) for which residuals have arrived. That simply alerts those of us in residual attracting job categories to be on the lookout for the cheques. PRS calculates and sends them out from there. Commercials are a bit more labour intensive for checking the accuracy of the resids cause there are so many factors involved, but those are sent out too. The problem comes in when people don't even anticipate they are going to get paid anymore and neglect to keep their information current with the union. The cheque is there, but the union doesn't know where to send it.
Keith, I know this sounds like a morbid thought, but considering your ordeal with the spider, and the fact that you have kids and grandkids, it might be a good idea to let your family know that your resids continue... even after death. To this day, I continue to receive 15% of gross income from former clients who are no longer with us. Residual cheques for performers who pass still go to "The Estate of..." And you never know... the nostalgia channel is always looking for programming. They routinely resurrect shows that no longer air. You could wake up one day and find a monster cheque waiting for you. As well too, sometimes industrials are repurposed and sold to the public, which is always a very nice & pleasant surprise. $$$ Every once in a while I'll pop into a store and ask the store mgrs. how the sales are of one of my re-purposed industrials. It gives me a good indicator of how long the residuals on it are going to last. If sales continue to be brisk enough, when the renewal comes up, I know they're gonna pony up another cheque for another 4 years use + % of sales. The best part of this one is, other than myself, there is only one other actor, so the residuals are split only 2 ways. 50/50 between myself and the other guy, instead of the usual norm of having to share resids split with 150 others on a film, or 1500 others in the case of a TV series. The downside is the distribution isn't as wide, ...but that's ok. Sometimes a larger piece of a smaller pie can be far more lucrative than a smaller piece of a bigger pie.
I am going to do that just to see how much. I'll be pissed if it is 11 years of Aaron Spelling checks for Dynasty. Even thought with the Soap Channel they are playing General Hospital and Knotts Landing I think too. I know Dangerous Curves plays a few times a year on the USA channel. Back in 1997 they were thinking about re-releasing my Gatorade commercial. And at one time even the Apple one with updated systems. So who knows I may have $100 waiting for me. I'm just glad I paid back my loan from the SAG credit union. Or I may not get anything and still owe
Can they do that, ...attach resids against debts owed to the union?
Wouldn't they be two separate and autonomous branches independant of each other?
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I have no idea about the them attaching the resids to pay off the debt. I just said that. I paid it off way in advance. I was an almost daily fixture at the credit union. I wanted to make sure I paid off the loan whenver I had money. I bought my first BMW with a loan from them. Plus it was cool whenever I wrote a check because it said SAG Credit Union. I liked to showoff back then. I had my Stunts Unlimited hat in the back window too. I do know the IRS attaches the resids cause they did it one time while I was here. Me and my friend went to my agents office to pickup my check and it was opened. And inside I had a nice letter from the IRS. They took the whole thing almost $1700. They did it again fro my credit card. This was back in 1990 or so.
Jag, do you guys have Taft Hartley up there. Not many people know about it. It is the best way to go if you just start in the business to get the Union benefits without having to join. It s good for 30 days so you can work union without having to pay the dues. It is cool for people who know they are only going to work for a short time or on one show. I reccommended it to allot of my friends. I told my story on here somewhere how I got my SAG card. It was pretty neat and unusual. I was lucky
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Onlyme,
Since you knew both Sly & Jean Claude.....
who would you say is taller & bigger.
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Jag, do you guys have Taft Hartley up there. Not many people know about it. It is the best way to go if you just start in the business to get the Union benefits without having to join. It s good for 30 days so you can work union without having to pay the dues. It is cool for people who know they are only going to work for a short time or on one show. I reccommended it to allot of my friends. I told my story on here somewhere how I got my SAG card. It was pretty neat and unusual. I was lucky
No Keith,
TaftHartley is a piece of American legislation. We're not (yet) obligated to apply US legislation this side of our border ;) but under Taft Hartley, you still have to pay the dues, ...but it's working dues as opposed to initiation dues.
Let's just say there is a lot of misunderstanding south of the border when it comes to Taft Hartley, and that misunderstanding can often work in the union's favour. Commonly and traditionally accepted practice may not always co-incide with the law. ie: Ontario legislation says a consumer has a 48 hr right of recision. Many stores put up a sign that says all sales final, and may even print it on your receipt. BFD. The law says otherwise. Just as in life, if you don't know your rights, it often proves difficult to demand their enforcement. The challenge is compounded when those required to enforce them, are even less aware of them than you are.
We do have a form of permitting that allows non-members to become members for a day or week if you will. It's a win/win situation actually. Our contracts stipulate that no member will be forced to work with a non-member or someone not holding a valid permit, ...but you can't force someone to join. So what we do is issue a permit (for which there is a fee that fluctuates according to job categories, and the length of engagement one is seeking the permit for). An applicant can re-apply for as many permits as required depending on the length of their engagement.
The permit confers upon the non-member all the rights & privileges afforded a member (except voting, extended health coverage, pension, or any of the other union "benefits" etc.) The fees for these permits go towards... paying off the mortgage and recouping the legal fees of the protracted battle between national and the BC branch oops, ...I mean they go towards topping up the fraternal benefits, insurance coverage & retirement plans of members ;D
Eventually the individual acquires 6 permits in residual attracting job categories, and can apply to the union for full membership, or they would remain non-union and continue to work in either jurisdiction. Most of us chose to work both sides of the fence, while keeping track of our credits. Because you had a time limit to get all 6, if the time ran out... the 1st credit would drop from the list of credits eligible to be used for acquiring membership. So people kept making sure their union credits were always rotating. As long as they maintained 6 eligible credits, there was no urgency to join the union and they could enjoy the best of both worlds. Because once you join the union, it wasn't like LA, you couldn't work non-union. That's Rule 1 in SAG, and the most important rule in any union. You can be Jeffrey Dahmer for all they care, ...but to be union and work non-union, ...or SCAB ??? ...you might as well kiss your butt goodbye. Those credits btw are not necesarily determine by whether you got a roll credit at the end of a film or TV show. Those are basically "at producer's discretion". I'm talking about a signed contract with your name on it, designating the production, your role, your pay, conditions producer had agreed to, perks, etc., the intended usage, as well as the percentage of distributors gross you would receive, based on either a buy-out or an advance against gross etc. That's what constitutes a "credit" in the eyes of the union.
So the union said "to heck with this"... and they introduced the apprentice program. It stipulated that future members could indicate their intention to join the ranks by becoming a union apprentice. This meant, after attaining their 1st eligible credit, they could pay $30, become an apprentice, and always be eligible for union rates whenever called out to work. In retrospect it was pretty stupid considering pay rates were always union rates. The only exception to that was the rate paid to background performers (extras). Only the 1st 30 got union rates, however many others got $5/hr. They still had to pay the permit fees tho. The apprentice program also made them eligible for opportunities afforded full members. BFD. They were always eligible to be seen by CD's. There was just always a perception that CDs wouldn't audition them because they weren't union. The fact is, there are only so many actors they are going to audition, and when you are up against someone with a proven track record, your chances are slim. However, in a business where perception is often more real than reality, ...what can you do? The end result was a massive influx of new members... mostly extras who wanted the union card so they could be guaranteed to make union wages everytime they worked. It's not unusual for a union extra to make over $300 / day, as opposed to $5/hr. It bites to be working right alongside someone else all day long, and come away with $50, knowing the guy beside you is making $300, They resented the "preference of engagement" clauses that said "preferences would be given to full members over permitees, but what alot of these guys who were essentially professional extras didn't understand is that for the producers, full members, were more valueable to them than the cash people, and that those preference clauses in the basic agreement for full members over permitees or apprentices were there at the producers request.
Bottom line, the program was reactionary (to ALOT of different things), poorly implemented and basically screwed the extras in the end. :-\ Sad but true. Most professional non-union performer's ignored the apprentice program and continued to rotate their credits with an eye to the calendar... so the union then put a time limit on entry. If you were a non-union performer who purchased a permit for a role under ACTRA jurisdiction, a role that was eligible to be used as a credit towards meeting entry requirements into the union, ...you had 30 days in which to signal your intent to join the union (at some future date once all eligibility requirements for membership had been met) by becoming an apprentice, or you would forfeit the ability to use that credit towards fulfilling entry requirements, as well as all previously eligible credits that otherwise could have been used for membership, and be required to start from scratch, again competing for and acquiring 6 credits within ACTRA jurisdiction. {LOL} Even though you had a choice, it wasn't much of one. It was either join within 30 days, ...or become an apprentice within 30 days upon acquisition of your next credit, starting over building eligible credits from scratch, or, be forever ineligible to join. That was the bottom line, as well as the magic bullet. As long as someone had at least 6 fresh credits in rotation, they could hold off on becoming a member indefinately. The prospect of starting all over from scratch was something very few wanted to do. The acquisition of the union card is like the holy grail for actors, so needless to say, all the non-union talent working both sides of the fence poured into ACTRA, and non-union producers had no more non-union talent pool to choose from, and had no choice but to become signatory if they wanted access to talent. It did however provide a huge boost to union coffers and our membership ranks ;D Afterall, we had a mortgage to burn and legal fees to recoup, the strength of a union is in it's numbers, no? ;)
We also don't have Financial Core. We do, ...but it's not really structured the way it is in the US, and it sure as heck isn't publicized the way it is in the US, ...and even that's hush-hush. Because actors are not designated as "employees", but rather independant contractors, there is no "core" per sé, and to bar them from working because of a lack of membership in the union is illegal. It's restriction of trade and quite illegal. However, because ACTRA has exclusive jurisdiction over working conditions governing independantly produced English language media, they can come to agreement with the employers (the producers) governing the working conditions and environments that must be fulfilled and maintained for their members to work, including the requirement that none of their members would be required to work alongside any performers who was not either a member or permitee, ...and in the case of permitees, it is stipulated in the general agreement that the cost of permitting a non-member will be borne by the producer. So... in a nutshell, the performer is still core, and the union still gets it's money, either willingly by the non-member (depending on the category of engagement), or by the producer. In any event, bearing the cost of permitting is agreed to in advance by the production agreement. As well too, in order to not create a conflict of interest, producers are required to provide "equalization payments". If they have to pay out an addition 10% of gross wages to contribute to pension & retirement funds for full memebers, it might be advantageous for them to seek non members for whom there is no pension & retirement fund to contribute to. In addition, 3% was also deducted from performers cheques for insurance & retirement as well as working dues of 1.74% . So we have an agreement that nevertheless, those amounts would be deducted and forwarded to the union so as not to create a financial conflict of interest. For the longest time, those funds were automatically deducted & forwarded and it was up to the non-member to request those back, but most knew nothing about that and happily accepted the withholding of those percentages.
I remember once years ago, before I joined the union, I was in a bit of a cash bind. I needed some money otherwise I would be late on my rent. I was walking through the door with my drycleaning in tow, going through my mail which consisted of more bills than cheques. I had a cheque in front of me for $500 something, and I going over it to make sure it was completely accurate, in the deductions, and ironically the 3% deduction was exactly what I had paid to my dry cleaner 5 mins before walking in the door. I remember looking at the deduction and saying to myself... "{sigh} that could have covered my drycleaning." That's when it hit me. Needless to say, i went over ALL my records and started adding up all the 3% insurance & retirement deductions over the years, and called up AFBS, and applied for my refund. I more than covered the rent. Infact, I think my refund covered it for 2 months ;D. Shortly after that, Fraternal stipulated non-members had 30 days to apply for their 3% refunds. Thankfully, the union changed a bit of wording around before it got slammed by the Canadian Labour Congress. With the "equalization" payments, they're in the clear. Now, they can even keep the money rather than refunding it. Personally, I would have prefered they simply credit new members for previously accumulated deductions and apply them to insurance & retirement once someone actually acquires full membership, but it wasn't feasible. It would've at least allowed them to get extended health benefits, as well as prescription & dental coverage right off the bat upon gaining full membership, ...but instead, they have to start from scratch and work their way up til they are eligible for the various levels of coverage made available through fraternal. :-\
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this is a very interesting read...bump
Quickerblade, do you have an interest in joining the film industry?
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my dream is to be in the film industry!
I was very lucky. I had no intention of being in that industry. My athletic background got me in. It kind of just fell in my lap. I am pretty sure if I remained in LA I would have done very well in the industry. I had experience in front of the camera and had allot of contacts. My connections in the stunt side of it too would have been very rewarding. But I decided I was tired of it and moved here.
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this is why Will Smith makes alot of cash, Fresh prince of belair is still airing in Asia, Australia, England and middle east
(http://valdefierro.com/prince33.jpg)
FRESH PRICE still plays every f*cking night on NICKATNIGHT...my fiance wants to watch it everynight when she goes to bed.. i wish they would shelf that F*CKING show