Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: escrima on August 15, 2020, 06:29:12 AM
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get it in your heads
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Aerobics are out, cardio is in.
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What is the role of The Pump
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http://www.arthurjonesexercise.com/Bulletin2/9.PDF
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if doing full body 3/5 days between workouts
split routine no more than 3 days a week maybe extend it to over 10 days
who said you have to be a slave of a calendar..who?
just what you have been lead to believe
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get it in your heads
Mentzer was half right on a lot of things. He did steer the conversation back to shorter, more intense workouts and that is smart. But then he carried things to absurdity. I lift for general strength and have found that going short of failure is far better than failure. I recover faster and make steady progress. I lift heavy every third day and that works for me.
And to add a monkey wrench to things, I know a number of racing cyclists with quads 26" plus and they can ride 30 mile races without breaking a sweat. You can be big and have considerable cardiovascular endurance.
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Mentzer was half right on a lot of things. He did steer the conversation back to shorter, more intense workouts and that is smart. But then he carried things to absurdity. I lift for general strength and have found that going short of failure is far better than failure. I recover faster and make steady progress. I lift heavy every third day and that works for me.
And to add a monkey wrench to things, I know a number of racing cyclists with quads 26" plus and they can ride 30 mile races without breaking a sweat. You can be big and have considerable cardiovascular endurance.
Also, remember when we talk about certain non-weight training athletes with superior muscular size, by and large there is NO eccentric resistance in their activity (cycling, speed skating etc). Just intense, fast concentric bursts. Bears examining.
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(https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-08-2015/Igbu1V.gif)
I beg to differ
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The interview is from the old "MM2K" Muscle Media series of tapes. A bit afterward, Mentzer would get really angry with them for publishing a photo of him looking like a mess, in the vicinity of a box of a dozen Dunkin Donuts (looked like creme filled chocolate). A bit after that, the whole Mentzer drinks his own piss rumor started like wildfire.
Ah, the 90's.
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Also, remember when we talk about certain non-weight training athletes with superior muscular size, by and large there is NO eccentric resistance in their activity (cycling, speed skating etc). Just intense, fast concentric bursts. Bears examining.
Exactly. A friend of mine was a speed skater in upstate NY and his quads came close to 27"! He never touched a weight. Typical workouts were 30 second sprints repeated a half dozen times a session.
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I remember watching Mike Mentzer on the Super Stars competition running the 100 yard dash. It was sad watching him run it. Reminded me a fat house wife waddling.
Regarding doing cardio or aerobics Mike use to run and bike in his prime and documented it in his training journals. He became anti cardio after he stopped competing. Probably because he smoked like a chimney and did meth that made him so exhausted I bet he could barely walk.
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Exactly. A friend of mine was a speed skater in upstate NY and his quads came close to 27"! He never touched a weight. Typical workouts were 30 second sprints repeated a half dozen times a session.
gymnasts... same thing...decent muscle development using the same principles
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Exactly. A friend of mine was a speed skater in upstate NY and his quads came close to 27"! He never touched a weight. Typical workouts were 30 second sprints repeated a half dozen times a session.
Speed skater strides are essentially one-legged squats.
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Also, remember when we talk about certain non-weight training athletes with superior muscular size, by and large there is NO eccentric resistance in their activity (cycling, speed skating etc). Just intense, fast concentric bursts. Bears examining.
The argument for eccentric movements is that you can use more weight but it’s an Apple to Oranges comparison. Slowing a weight down is not the same as moving it in the opposite direction.
I’ve never found negatives to be of any value.
Regarding cardio, essentially every high level boxer throughout history has done roadwork. The same goes for Muay Thai fighters. Running is a requirement in high level Muay Thai gyms in Thailand: “No run. No fight!” So it probably has some value.
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The argument for eccentric movements is that you can use more weight but it’s an Apple to Oranges comparison. Slowing a weight down is not the same as moving in the opposite direction.
I’ve never found negatives to be of any value.
Regarding cardio, essentially every high level boxer throughout history has done roadwork. The same goes for Muay Thai fighters. Running is a requirement in high level Muay Thai gyms in Thailand: “No run. No fight!” So it probably has some value.
Throw in wrestlers and MMA fighters. Running is a fundamental exercise.
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I dont take advice from loser meth addicts who quit their game and suicide out because they got beat
get that in your head
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Throw in wrestlers and MMA fighters. Running is a fundamental exercise.
Wrestlers usually have really good lats. Why?
They’re always trying to pull their resisting opponents’ head down and forward.
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Mentzer was half right on a lot of things. He did steer the conversation back to shorter, more intense workouts and that is smart. But then he carried things to absurdity. I lift for general strength and have found that going short of failure is far better than failure. I recover faster and make steady progress. I lift heavy every third day and that works for me.
And to add a monkey wrench to things, I know a number of racing cyclists with quads 26" plus and they can ride 30 mile races without breaking a sweat. You can be big and have considerable cardiovascular endurance.
And there’s many that don’t like Floyd Landis and Lance Armstrong. As with everything sports related genetics determines a lot.
If your physical makeup doesn’t support the potential of 26” thighs no amount of training or drugs will let you develop that size of muscularity.
Mentzer was smart and an elite bodybuilder but he never used his theories to build his physique, he only came to his conclusions after he was well established. Similar to Chic telling GB that the flat bench doesn’t build a good/big chest. He made those comments after he spent 15 years using the flat bench to build his chest.
you have to have a solid foundation first.
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And there’s many that don’t like Floyd Landis and Lance Armstrong. As with everything sports related genetics determines a lot.
If your physical makeup doesn’t support the potential of 26” thighs no amount of training or drugs will let you develop that size of muscularity.
Mentzer was smart and an elite bodybuilder but he never used his theories to build his physique, he only came to his conclusions after he was well established. Similar to Chic telling GB that the flat bench doesn’t build a good/big chest. He made those comments after he spent 15 years using the flat bench to build his chest.
you have to have a solid foundation first.
Not sure how disliking Floyd or Lance enters the picture since we aren't talking about their training methods, lol. Mentzer built his physique off steroids. He talked fondly of Dr. Ziegler. Without dope Mentzer would have been nothing.
Mentzer pretty much mouthed everything Arthur Jones said and then put his own name on it. And Jones wanted to sell lots of machines and the only way to do that was to preach that one set was all you needed- that meant higher throughput in gyms that bought his expensive contraptions.
Genetics and physical development go hand in hand, but the efficacy of training methods has a bigger effect.
And Mentzer was an idiot. Why would you become a meth addict and chain smoker after preaching fitness your entire adult career? Because he had a frail mind.
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Speed skater strides are essentially one-legged squats.
but without the eccentric/negative part
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Not sure how disliking Floyd or Lance enters the picture since we aren't talking about their training methods, lol. Mentzer built his physique off steroids. He talked fondly of Dr. Ziegler. Without dope Mentzer would have been nothing.
Mentzer pretty much mouthed everything Arthur Jones said and then put his own name on it. And Jones wanted to sell lots of machines and the only way to do that was to preach that one set was all you needed- that meant higher throughput in gyms that bought his expensive contraptions.
Genetics and physical development go hand in hand, but the efficacy of training methods has a bigger effect.
And Mentzer was an idiot. Why would you become a meth addict and chain smoker after preaching fitness your entire adult career? Because he had a frail mind.
Sorry bro, I assumed Armstrong and Landis were also the cyclists you were referring to when you were talking about 30 mile races, completely different sports. I didn't dislike either I meant many cyclists dont have huge quads (like Lance and Floyd) I was pointing out their unremarkable builds despite their intense physical training and drug use.
My main point was Mentzer used completely different principles to establish his physique than the ones he started to promote when he was done competing. Any resistance training will build muscle, as time passes many factors change what is needed to maintain a similar build.
Mentzer was disingenuous with his claims. Although apparently Dorian applied his theories to multiple wins so maybe I'm the dope.
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Mentzer was half right on a lot of things. He did steer the conversation back to shorter, more intense workouts and that is smart. But then he carried things to absurdity. I lift for general strength and have found that going short of failure is far better than failure. I recover faster and make steady progress. I lift heavy every third day and that works for me.
And to add a monkey wrench to things, I know a number of racing cyclists with quads 26" plus and they can ride 30 mile races without breaking a sweat. You can be big and have considerable cardiovascular endurance.
Yes, training to failure is stupid. No other athletes, including powerlifters and Olympic weightlifters, train to failure.
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This:
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41bg2bI5PtL._SL350_.jpg)
Plus this:
(https://s1.dmcdn.net/v/8Di9O1KP69yMPoecc/x720)
Equals This:
(https://musclenow.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/craig-builds-muscle-burns-fat-naturally.jpg)
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I remember doing Sisco and Little bullshit workouts and losing muscle. Eventually you end up working out once every month or two. ::)
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Wrestlers usually have really good lats. Why?
They’re always trying to pull their resisting opponents’ head down and forward.
Wrestlers do tons of pullups and usually rope climbing as well.
The top level guys have been doing so since they were little kids, usually starting very young.
Most have skinny legs which is really an advantage as it gives them a high strength to weight ratio.
Remember the guy with no legs who won an NCAA title? It was actually an advantage because he had the upper body strength of several weight classes above his actual weight. He was stronger than all his opponents. Plus nobody could take him down!
Still an amazing story.
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Wrestlers do tons of pullups and usually rope climbing as well.
The top level guys have been doing so since they were little kids, usually starting very young.
Most have skinny legs which is really an advantage as it gives them a high strength to weight ratio.
Remember the guy with no legs who won an NCAA title? It was actually an advantage because he had the upper body strength of several weight classes above his actual weight. He was stronger than all his opponents. Plus nobody could take him down!
Still an amazing story.
You see in a lot of sports. Swimmers tend to have a good shoulders because the swimming stroke is mainly deltoids. Basketball players too because their arms are overhead when shooting and playing defense.
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get it in your heads
You like to give a lot of unsolicited training advice. How come you are afraid to post a pic showing what all this knowledge and training has done for you in real life?
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I remember watching Mike Mentzer on the Super Stars competition running the 100 yard dash. It was sad watching him run it. Reminded me a fat house wife waddling.
Regarding doing cardio or aerobics Mike use to run and bike in his prime and documented it in his training journals. He became anti cardio after he stopped competing. Probably because he smoked like a chimney and did meth that made him so exhausted I bet he could barely walk.
Mentzer had a great build (so did his brother) but his results were due mostly to genetic and drugs and his nutritional advise was idiotic
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You can't believe everything Mentzer says, he was a great bodybuilder, huge, but he was not natty and he had some very radical ideas
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I dont take advice from loser meth addicts who quit their game and suicide out because they got beat
get that in your head
Bitter post
History of Meth in your Family?
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I think some are missing the point here
Mike´s theory was a short hard workout not endless sets
If you are giving examples of of big quad cyclists doing just sprint training then what is this?
It is essentially a HIIT workout not a marathon.
unless you are a Bum like Pellius with no job who the hell has time to train for hours like a Lance Armstrong?
Tom Platz was a keen cyclist but he never put this down to his big meaty quad development even if using more sets than Mike
indeed Bill Pearl took up serious cycling when he retired from competition but later said he lost too much weight & size. look at him in pictures posing in Derby England at 56 when he went back to weight training
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Mentzer had a great build (so did his brother) but his results were due mostly to genetic and drugs and his nutritional advise was idiotic
I believe I'd read that he also achieved most of his best results before espousing his "less conventional" ideas later.
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Tom Platz used a lot of intensity techniques like Mike
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talks about Bruce Lee at about the 3/4 mark
Mike & Bruce were thinkers
and..doers
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Tom Platz used a lot of intensity techniques like Mike
And blew out his bicep ending his competitive career.
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^ I posted that just for the opening. The DVD started with the song "Darude" by Sandstorm.
Here are the lyrics:
Doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
I guess it was removed on copyright grounds. I guess Mike or the producers of the DVD included it without permission.
Mentzer looks great in those opening shots though!
Here is the song:
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I believe I'd read that he also achieved most of his best results before espousing his "less conventional" ideas later.
I hear this all the time but not only is it not true but it is verifiably untrue. First of all, he was inspired when he first saw Casey Viator. It was through Casey that Mike learned about Arthur Jones. Mike wrote that this was at a time when he was growing very unsatisfied and uninspired with his progress. After speaking at length with Jones it gave Mike, like so many others, including myself, who took the current training six days a week, 20 sets/body part, 2 hours/day as gospel because, after all, that was what all the Arnold era champs were doing; a whole new perspective on training.
People take it for granted that back in those days, for me that would be the 1970s, nobody talked about the role of genetics and the importance of recovery. It was always about the pump and training more. If you had a "weak body part" the solution was always to do more sets. For someone like me, and the vast majority of average Joes out there, EVERY bodypart was weak so that left us in quite a dilemma. Training more and more and more. Sure everybody knew we all needed a good night's sleep but never was the concept that results occur outside the gym during the recovery period. Jones made the point that the solution is rarely to train more but to train harder. The one concept that stood out for me, and Mike Mentzer, simply because it made logical sense, was that: As long as you are working within your functional ability. As long as you are doing things that are already easy. Exercise will do little or nothing by way of increasing, size, strength, and functional ability. If you can do 10 pull-ups and just keep doing 10 reps never even attempting the 11th rep, you will not stimulate an adaptive response. Isn't the whole point of lifting weights was to subject your body to a stimulous that it was not accustom to?
When you look at Mike when he first move to Florida to train with Jones you can see he was nowhere near the level of developent he was later to achieve using the basic, and somewhat tweaked, principles he learned from Jones.
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I hear this all the time but not only is it not true but it is verifiably untrue. First of all, he was inspired when he first saw Casey Viator. It was through Casey that Mike learned about Arthur Jones. Mike wrote that this was at a time when he was growing very unsatisfied and uninspired with his progress. After speaking at length with Jones it gave Mike, like so many others, including myself, who took the current training six days a week, 20 sets/body part, 2 hours/day as gospel because, after all, that was what all the Arnold era champs were doing; a whole new perspective on training.
People take it for granted that back in those days, for me that would be the 1970s, nobody talked about the role of genetics and the importance of recovery. It was always about the pump and training more. If you had a "weak body part" the solution was always to do more sets. For someone like me, and the vast majority of average Joes out there, EVERY bodypart was weak so that left us in quite a dilemma. Training more and more and more. Sure everybody knew we all needed a good night's sleep but never was the concept that results occur outside the gym during the recovery period. Jones made the point that the solution is rarely to train more but to train harder. The one concept that stood out for me, and Mike Mentzer, simply because it made logical sense, was that: As long as you are working within your functional ability. As long as you are doing things that are already easy. Exercise will do little or nothing by way of increasing, size, strength, and functional ability. If you can do 10 pull-ups and just keep doing 10 reps never even attempting the 11th rep, you will not stimulate an adaptive response. Isn't the whole point of lifting weights was to subject your body to a stimulous that it was not accustom to?
When you look at Mike when he first move to Florida to train with Jones you can see he was nowhere near the level of developent he was later to achieve using the basic, and somewhat tweaked, principles he learned from Jones.
Interesting.
I've never really analyzed it that way (or at all, really).
Jones was no dummy.
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Jones was a Man´s Man
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Here are the lyrics:
Doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
I guess it was removed on copyright grounds. I guess Mike or the producers of the DVD included it without permission.
Mentzer looks great in those opening shots though!
Here is the song:
Best lyrics ever!
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Jones was a Man´s Man
There are several good books on Jones.
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im gonna respond even though i know it will make a certain someone who thinks he knows everything start with the arguing etc. mike did not train like he preached. neither did casey. neither did sergio. everyone of them ( including arnold) did TRY jones way. arniold said if he had to train that way he would quit and take up biking or swimming. and arnold is was and will forever be the best built man . in the day they believed in intesity not just stopping cuz you hit 10 reps etc. its called progressive resistance. when they could get their desired number of reps they added weight. and what the mags never told you is the long 20 sets etc were only at contest time to help bring out the muscularity. they were dieting and couldnt nor shouldnt use maximum weights ( yates learned this the hard way). the changes to mikes rays caseys sergios arnolds or anyone elses wasnt due to jones or hit or heavy duty. IT WAS DRUGS. casey was in an accident lost a bunch of weight then did the colorado "experiment". ( great way to sell nautilus)
in fact casey used drugs during it ( jones didnt know supposedly) and casey also snuck out and trained at night to get more workouts in. mike and ray would do 3 or 4 "warm up sets" then 1 to failure( mostly positive failure) mike was trying to sell books and get seminars and make money. PERIOD. he latched onto jones ideas and seen a way to stand out like he was some kind of expert . lmao. mike was a drug addicted narrow minded insecure person. he had a decent body at his best but not a prize winning body in my opinion. always writting like he knows more than anyone else( kinda like the person i said would start his arguments) intesity is important. no doubht. you have to make each workout harder than the last if you want to continue to progress. didnt think they did back in arnolds day? watch pumping iron. arnold says " the body isnt used to doing the 9th 10th 11th or 12th rep. that then is what makes you grow. going thru this pain barrier" . so go ahead and start badmouthing everything i wrote even down to my writting. im not gonna respond back. im a man. a real man. not a keyboard tuff guy. and no i wont show pics of myself so some of you fags can jack off. or post them elsewhere. smh. and ive noticed this one person who "brags" about his body wil show body pics with no face or face pics fully clothed. looking to be about 140 lbs. like a marathon runner NOT bodybuilder
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im gonna respond even though i know it will make a certain someone who thinks he knows everything start with the arguing etc. mike did not train like he preached. neither did casey. neither did sergio. everyone of them ( including arnold) did TRY jones way. arniold said if he had to train that way he would quit and take up biking or swimming. and arnold is was and will forever be the best built man . in the day they believed in intesity not just stopping cuz you hit 10 reps etc. its called progressive resistance. when they could get their desired number of reps they added weight. and what the mags never told you is the long 20 sets etc were only at contest time to help bring out the muscularity. they were dieting and couldnt nor shouldnt use maximum weights ( yates learned this the hard way). the changes to mikes rays caseys sergios arnolds or anyone elses wasnt due to jones or hit or heavy duty. IT WAS DRUGS. casey was in an accident lost a bunch of weight then did the colorado "experiment". ( great way to sell nautilus)
in fact casey used drugs during it ( jones didnt know supposedly) and casey also snuck out and trained at night to get more workouts in. mike and ray would do 3 or 4 "warm up sets" then 1 to failure( mostly positive failure) mike was trying to sell books and get seminars and make money. PERIOD. he latched onto jones ideas and seen a way to stand out like he was some kind of expert . lmao. mike was a drug addicted narrow minded insecure person. he had a decent body at his best but not a prize winning body in my opinion. always writting like he knows more than anyone else( kinda like the person i said would start his arguments) intesity is important. no doubht. you have to make each workout harder than the last if you want to continue to progress. didnt think they did back in arnolds day? watch pumping iron. arnold says " the body isnt used to doing the 9th 10th 11th or 12th rep. that then is what makes you grow. going thru this pain barrier" . so go ahead and start badmouthing everything i wrote even down to my writting. im not gonna respond back. im a man. a real man. not a keyboard tuff guy. and no i wont show pics of myself so some of you fags can jack off. or post them elsewhere. smh. and ive noticed this one person who "brags" about his body wil show body pics with no face or face pics fully clothed. looking to be about 140 lbs. like a marathon runner NOT bodybuilder
Grade C+.
Good content but poor grammar, punctuation, etc.
Suggested reading...
(http://brucemctague.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/strunk-and-white-631x1024.jpg)
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im gonna respond even though i know it will make a certain someone who thinks he knows everything start with the arguing etc. mike did not train like he preached. neither did casey. neither did sergio. everyone of them ( including arnold) did TRY jones way. arniold said if he had to train that way he would quit and take up biking or swimming. and arnold is was and will forever be the best built man . in the day they believed in intesity not just stopping cuz you hit 10 reps etc. its called progressive resistance. when they could get their desired number of reps they added weight. and what the mags never told you is the long 20 sets etc were only at contest time to help bring out the muscularity. they were dieting and couldnt nor shouldnt use maximum weights ( yates learned this the hard way). the changes to mikes rays caseys sergios arnolds or anyone elses wasnt due to jones or hit or heavy duty. IT WAS DRUGS. casey was in an accident lost a bunch of weight then did the colorado "experiment". ( great way to sell nautilus)
in fact casey used drugs during it ( jones didnt know supposedly) and casey also snuck out and trained at night to get more workouts in. mike and ray would do 3 or 4 "warm up sets" then 1 to failure( mostly positive failure) mike was trying to sell books and get seminars and make money. PERIOD. he latched onto jones ideas and seen a way to stand out like he was some kind of expert . lmao. mike was a drug addicted narrow minded insecure person. he had a decent body at his best but not a prize winning body in my opinion. always writting like he knows more than anyone else( kinda like the person i said would start his arguments) intesity is important. no doubht. you have to make each workout harder than the last if you want to continue to progress. didnt think they did back in arnolds day? watch pumping iron. arnold says " the body isnt used to doing the 9th 10th 11th or 12th rep. that then is what makes you grow. going thru this pain barrier" . so go ahead and start badmouthing everything i wrote even down to my writting. im not gonna respond back. im a man. a real man. not a keyboard tuff guy. and no i wont show pics of myself so some of you fags can jack off. or post them elsewhere. smh. and ive noticed this one person who "brags" about his body wil show body pics with no face or face pics fully clothed. looking to be about 140 lbs. like a marathon runner NOT bodybuilder
I've said it before, Jones was a genius marketer, not a genius scientist or engineer.
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Jones made good machines but his theories are bullsh*t.
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Jones made good machines but his theories are bullsh*t.
I agree with about half of what he said.