Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: joswift on September 09, 2020, 02:55:48 PM
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https://www.instagram.com/p/CE7bI2ajcZl/
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Holy shit, 65 year old quads,those things look insane.granted they are being squished like when you see people curling with an arm blaster on but I bet they still look crazy.
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Very impressive, especially for 65.
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His face is filling out and he even looks facially like he used to. Which is more important to the average person.
The look he has in that video would not be a "jolt" to someone that hadn't seen him in 35 years,
whereas photos of him taken even over a decade ago were "jarring" because of how different he looked. A Hawaiian shirt photo comes to mind.
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Holy shit!
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Still a total nut job.
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His face is filling out and he even looks facially like he used to. Which is more important to the average person.
The look he has in that video would not be a "jolt" to someone that hadn't seen him in 35 years,
whereas photos of him taken even over a decade ago were "jarring" because of how different he looked. A Hawaiian shirt photo comes to mind.
I remember the 2008 photos. For 53, Tom's legs were so big, that some wouldn't even think they were new photos. Even his legs today may meet pro standards. I'd have to see him posing in potentially unfavourable lights to know for certain.
That's nice he is still married. Come to think of it, I think Tom and Cha were married on September 11th, 2000, which means their 20th anniversary is in two days [Friday].
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holy fuck... give those legs to Levrone!!
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https://www.instagram.com/p/CE7bI2ajcZl/
That is one determined lesbian!
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That is one determined lesbian!
Hahahaha
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Impressive but if he is juicing at his age he is a complete moron.
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One of the worst training videos I have seen. Way too close to see his legs properly.
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Impressive but if he is juicing at his age he is a complete moron.
Good point. Is any level of juice at his age not suicidal? An Anavar-only cycle? TRT? GH? Anything?
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One of the worst training videos I have seen. Way too close to see his legs properly.
Don't be a hater, Vince. Watch the video again. This time, notice the definition in his massive forearms, the feathered quads showing each head of the quadriceps. After that, check out the next picture in his Polo Ralph Lauren socks. You can tell he is in top shape all over, for his or any age.
Don't hate. Congratulate.
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Looks fucking great!!
I remember his first feature in any mag................Muscu lar Development as a teen Mr. Michigan winner.
I had that magazine plus 3 million others .....................see ms like yesterday.
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Still very muscular, separated and defined, but dramatically smaller.
Crazy wheels, though.
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Bad video but great physique.
Also his face's looking way better now.
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Bad video but great physique.
Also his face's looking way better now.
I’d imagine his upper body looks like absolute shit.
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I’d imagine his upper body looks like absolute shit.
Who has great legs with a shitty upper body?
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One of the worst training videos I have seen. Way too close to see his legs properly.
:D ;D
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Quads still looking great.
One chain of the gyms I train at have that brand of machine that he's on. They're pretty poor, solid enough but not enough adjustment.
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I'm sure Platz is flabbergasted and crying because of Vince Basile's comments!
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I'm sure Platz is flabbergasted and crying because of Vince Basile's comments!
Depressed no doubt.
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I’d imagine his upper body looks like absolute shit.
Could be... hope shmoes post their finding.
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One of the worst training videos I have seen. Way too close to see his legs properly.
Please don't show us "how it's done" :-X
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Please don't show us "how it's done" :-X
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=252350.0;attach=876963;image)
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Lol ^ :D
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Impressive but if he is juicing at his age he is a complete moron.
Good point. Is any level of juice at his age not suicidal? An Anavar-only cycle? TRT? GH? Anything?
Steroids and GH can have beneficial and detrimental effects at the same time. Some system may take a beating while others health parameters improve.
Don't forget that general physical frailty is a common cause of death in the elderly, they can't take a fall and die from a broken hip or whatever. The elderly are encouraged to resistance train these days and steroids naturally help the muscle/strength building and muscle retention.
Steroids help sex drive and general subjective wellbeing. Being old and depressed increases chances of dying from any ailment.
. Androgens at a certain level may also protect the cardiovascular system. So no, I don't think using steroids in old age is automatically idiotic.
Some dude n another forum said he was giving his elderly mom and dad cycles of test and deca and even DNP and claimed they felt much better. A little extreme :D
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Steroids and GH can have beneficial and detrimental effects at the same time. Some system may take a beating while others health parameters improve.
Don't forget that general physical frailty is a common cause of death in the elderly, they can't take a fall and die from a broken hip or whatever. The elderly are encouraged to resistance train these days and steroids naturally help the muscle/strength building and muscle retention.
Steroids help sex drive and general subjective wellbeing. Being old and depressed increases chances of dying from any ailment.
. Androgens at a certain level may also protect the cardiovascular system. So no, I don't think using steroids in old age is automatically idiotic.
Some dude n another forum said he was giving his elderly mom and dad cycles of test and deca and even DNP and claimed they felt much better. A little extreme :D
By the time I'm elderly they'll probably have a lot more studies done to help me decide to go on or not.
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This was a seminar in 17. Brings his own bent bar.
Part 2
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Impressive but if he is juicing at his age he is a complete moron.
yes im sure your right
thats why we are talking about him and not you right
oldtimer?
because he is a moron. right?
on top of you being nothing, never were never was
you are the moron
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This was a seminar in 17. Brings his own bent bar.
Part 2
Thanks for that :).
The Norb (Schmansky) he was mentioning. Schmansky was from Detroit, Platz was from Michigan, I think Detroit too. His first gym was mainly a OL gym, etc..... -
(https://theolympians.co/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/norbert-schemansky-1964.jpg).
The Karhu weightlifting boots Platz copied -
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRBm4Wsh4_FEeHDYD4v2g12A4qKL6bAL8yKMA&usqp=CAU)
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yes im sure your right
thats why we are talking about him and not you right
oldtimer?
because he is a moron. right?
on top of you being nothing, never were never was
you are the moron
I like oldtimer's post and he isn't a moron :)
But when you are 65 who the Hell cares what you take? Most people at that age are on something their doc gives them, and it goes on until they die. A 20 year old shouldn't be on drugs but by 65 the clock is ticking anyways...
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Could Tom just be on TRT or GH?
PS - Tom and Cha's 20th wedding anniversary is tomorrow.
8) 8) 8)
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One of the worst training videos I have seen. Way too close to see his legs properly.
nobody gives a shit about your opinion
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I like oldtimer's post and he isn't a moron :)
But when you are 65 who the Hell cares what you take? Most people at that age are on something their doc gives them, and it goes on until they die. A 20 year old shouldn't be on drugs but by 65 the clock is ticking anyways...
At 65 you may have a different opinion of that ticking clock.
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Tom could be described as a female version of Ellen DeGeneres.
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Who has great legs with a shitty upper body?
I hung and lifted with Tom when he was at his smallest. Still had legs. Upper body? Destroyed, torn and melted.
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Good point. Is any level of juice at his age not suicidal? An Anavar-only cycle? TRT? GH? Anything?
My doctor and my excellent health tell me that TRT is the opposite of suicidal. Neither of us is alone in this line of thinking.
"Testosterone replacement therapy for older men - NCBI - NIHwww.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › pmc › articles › PMC2686341
Testosterone supplementation in hypogonadal men improves exercise tolerance and decreases exercise-associated ischemia in elderly patients with coronary artery disease and low (Malkin et al 2004) or low-normal (English et al 2000) testosterone."
"The evidence clearly indicates that many older men display a partial androgen deficiency. In older men, low circulating testosterone is correlated with low muscle strength, with high adiposity, with insulin resistance and with poor cognitive performance. Testosterone replacement in older men has produced benefits, but not consistently so. The inconsistency may arise from differences in the dose and duration of testosterone treatment, as well as selection of the target population."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2686341/
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Don't be a hater, Vince. Watch the video again. This time, notice the definition in his massive forearms, the feathered quads showing each head of the quadriceps. After that, check out the next picture in his Polo Ralph Lauren socks. You can tell he is in top shape all over, for his or any age.
Don't hate. Congratulate.
And don't forget that head full of hair!!!! him and Ferrigno have half of Getbiggers drowning in jealousy . ;D
Whossshhhhhhhhhhh Amamdeus
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I hung and lifted with Tom when he was at his smallest. Still had legs. Upper body? Destroyed, torn and melted.
He looks pretty big under the shirt in that video.
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Can we arrange for Tom Platz to give training advice to Vince Basile?
It should be filmed with video. Basile would have the meltdown of the century! :D
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He looks pretty big under the shirt in that video.
Not much bigger, but better. His face is noticeably different and much more filled out compared to recent past vids.
Platz is juicing again.
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Can we arrange for Tom Platz to give training advice to Vince Basile?
It should be filmed with video. Basile would have the meltdown of the century! :D
does platz have a contribution to the sport greater than the biceps supinator? has he given a greater tutelage to young apprentices of the thong than basille's 12000 posts on getbig?
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At 65 you may have a different opinion of that ticking clock.
Doubtful. Watched my father die from radiation poisoning caused by a screw up in a hospital. Took 7 seven years to wither away. We both learned a lot from each other during that time. Live for today.
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Not much bigger, but better. His face is noticeably different and much more filled out compared to recent past vids.
Platz is juicing again.
Good for him
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My doctor and my excellent health tell me that TRT is the opposite of suicidal. Neither of us is alone in this line of thinking.
"Testosterone replacement therapy for older men - NCBI - NIHwww.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › pmc › articles › PMC2686341
Testosterone supplementation in hypogonadal men improves exercise tolerance and decreases exercise-associated ischemia in elderly patients with coronary artery disease and low (Malkin et al 2004) or low-normal (English et al 2000) testosterone."
"The evidence clearly indicates that many older men display a partial androgen deficiency. In older men, low circulating testosterone is correlated with low muscle strength, with high adiposity, with insulin resistance and with poor cognitive performance. Testosterone replacement in older men has produced benefits, but not consistently so. The inconsistency may arise from differences in the dose and duration of testosterone treatment, as well as selection of the target population."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2686341/
I lift naturally - meaning I don't take PEDs of any kind. That's just a personal preference. I'd like to think that approach keeps me healthy. Plus I want to see what I can attain just by exercising. It's purely for fitness.
But when I'm sick or injured I have zero problem taking anything the doctor prescribes (assuming it is a tested drug). Why? Because suffering for the sake of suffering is stupid. Besides, even a low grade infection can turn to a high grade infection and kill you in 24 hours. I don't think there is any one with a working brain that would turn down antibiotics when they have a bad infection. And most of the current ones aren't natural by any measure.
So when to we get that middle ground, meaning not a life or death choice- the taking of things that enhance your life and clearly aren't natural (such as an endogenous testosterone injection)- I think it's completely ok as long as it is an informed personal decision. I don't get the condemnation some people have for others doing that. Ain't killing anybody so why care?
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My doctor and my excellent health tell me that TRT is the opposite of suicidal. Neither of us is alone in this line of thinking.
"Testosterone replacement therapy for older men - NCBI - NIHwww.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › pmc › articles › PMC2686341
Testosterone supplementation in hypogonadal men improves exercise tolerance and decreases exercise-associated ischemia in elderly patients with coronary artery disease and low (Malkin et al 2004) or low-normal (English et al 2000) testosterone."
"The evidence clearly indicates that many older men display a partial androgen deficiency. In older men, low circulating testosterone is correlated with low muscle strength, with high adiposity, with insulin resistance and with poor cognitive performance. Testosterone replacement in older men has produced benefits, but not consistently so. The inconsistency may arise from differences in the dose and duration of testosterone treatment, as well as selection of the target population."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2686341/
In 2007, that was what the data showed. I would say that was what the totality of data said, although I may have been reading from biased sources, being that I was on bodybuilding message boards so much, and otherwise involved in the bodybuilding world. TRT was still relatively new at the time, but the notion was that low testosterone posed a greater risk to men for heart attacks than high testosterone did.
Whether that still represents the totality view...I don't know.
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He looks pretty big under the shirt in that video.
He’s juicing, so, yeah, bigger, but I can guarantee it looks like a melted candle. His one arm is destroyed, as well.
Platz is a good guy, so I hope he’s having fun. Those wheels look gnarly.
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Not much bigger, but better. His face is noticeably different and much more filled out compared to recent past vids.
Platz is juicing again.
Just gonna quote myself from the other Tom Platz thread here...
Watch this space for the launch of a Quadfather[TM] fart powder...
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https://www.oldschoollabs.com/tom-platz-dr-cha-brand-ambassador/
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Platz is probably just doing TRT. With his legs, muscle-memory, pain tolerance, etc his legs came back.
I doubt the guy is juicing heavily. Upper body seems in shape, but far from big...
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Platz is probably just doing TRT. With his legs, muscle-memory, pain tolerance, etc his legs came back.
I doubt the guy is juicing heavily. Upper body seems in shape, but far from big...
He used his wife's naturopathic herbs.
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Impressive but if he is juicing at his age he is a complete moron.
Yes he is, of course he is
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Don't be a hater, Vince. Watch the video again. This time, notice the definition in his massive forearms, the feathered quads showing each head of the quadriceps. After that, check out the next picture in his Polo Ralph Lauren socks. You can tell he is in top shape all over, for his or any age.
Don't hate. Congratulate.
Exactly Right
Far to many Haters are they Jealous
Well done Tom - Keep it Going.
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At 65 you may have a different opinion of that ticking clock.
I’ve just clocked 60 & My opinion is I Don’t Drink / Smoke / Do Rec Drugs
So I’m going to take my Test Etc, I know a god few in their 70’s & using some
And all say Why would they Stop.
We all going to Die some sooner some later - When it’s your Day That’s it.
How many “Healthy” 20 / 30yr olds drop dead - for no apparent reason?
No don’t go mad & abuse crazy amounts that’s asking for trouble.
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I hung and lifted with Tom when he was at his smallest. Still had legs. Upper body? Destroyed, torn and melted.
Yet you take every opportunity to trash him. What a great person you are.
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This was a seminar in 17. Brings his own bent bar.
Part 2
Looks like an AIDS patient in that video. Talk about a before and after transformation.
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Looks like an AIDS patient in that video. Talk about a before and after transformation.
Shows that muscle can be put back on even at an advanced age.
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Looks like an AIDS patient in that video. Talk about a before and after transformation.
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Do you think Tom was taken seriously during his stint in the corporate world with his goofy suspenders, greasy ponytail, child-like wonder and his penchant for training till he came all over a cybex hamstring machine?
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Do you think Tom was taken seriously during his stint in the corporate world with his goofy suspenders, greasy ponytail, child-like wonder and his penchant for training till he came all over a cybex hamstring machine?
He is an extroverted show man. As I recall he had some kind of corporate sales job. I can see him doing well in such a role. But bodybuilding is probably his biggest passion.
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He is an extroverted show man. As I recall he had some kind of corporate sales job. I can see him doing well in such a role. But bodybuilding is probably his biggest passion.
I'm sure he was a great salesman.
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I’ve just clocked 60 & My opinion is I Don’t Drink / Smoke / Do Rec Drugs
So I’m going to take my Test Etc, I know a god few in their 70’s & using some
And all say Why would they Stop.
We all going to Die some sooner some later - When it’s your Day That’s it.
How many “Healthy” 20 / 30yr olds drop dead - for no apparent reason?
No don’t go mad & abuse crazy amounts that’s asking for trouble.
Wells said, brother! While I am against the ridiculous use or rather overuse of PEDs, I am far more against ANY use of recreational drugs. From marijuana to meth and whatever else is out there. I despise it and if I could go back in time I would rather my youngest brother had used steroids (sparingly, mind you) than all that rec crap. . He trained on occasion with me and was fairly strong but did not have the discipline nor the ioutside force of getting your ass kicked as I did to put real effort into it. He preferred the mind numbing over the joy of strength. Dammit...
I do not blame people for taking steroids but I do make fun of idiots like Coleman and that French Canadian fuckwit whose name escapes me right now. ;D And that McKidney guy that died with the test level of every memeber of Dykes on Bikes in him. ;D
I met a few of the Gold's Gym guys in the so called golden era and they were fairly honest and they didn't seem to risk their health like the compeitive dolts of today. I have had my test levels checked and they are abysmal but then they never were great. Sorry for the rambling. It's nice to be here. Take care!
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He is an extroverted show man. As I recall he had some kind of corporate sales job. I can see him doing well in such a role. But bodybuilding is probably his biggest passion.
I'm sure he was a great salesman.
Close - someone else on here sent me the link when I mentioned fart-powder
"Platz is the consummate professional, whether in the oiled-up world of bodybuilding or buttoned-up corporate offices. Though he felt the pull of a new generation of fans encouraging him to jump back into the sport, he was reluctant to leave his job as a corporate recruiter. Then his boss encouraged him.
“My CEO at the corporate office told me, ‘If you don’t leave, I’m going to fire you,’” Platz says, laughing. “He wasn’t really serious, but he knew I needed to do this, so I resigned. I began to tour the world, mostly in Europe, giving training seminars and squat clinics.”
His website said after retiring from BB he'd gone into his 'dream career' as a second hand car salesman, so I suppose the corporate gig came after that..?
https://www.oldschoollabs.com/tom-platz-now/ (https://www.oldschoollabs.com/tom-platz-now/)
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From the gym to the sales floor -
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/D8kPImEouHE/maxresdefault.jpg).
"Put that creatine down, creatine's for closers"
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He looks great. Truly amazing.
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Wells said, brother! While I am against the ridiculous use or rather overuse of PEDs, I am far more against ANY use of recreational drugs. From marijuana to meth and whatever else is out there. I despise it and if I could go back in time I would rather my youngest brother had used steroids (sparingly, mind you) than all that rec crap. . He trained on occasion with me and was fairly strong but did not have the discipline nor the ioutside force of getting your ass kicked as I did to put real effort into it. He preferred the mind numbing over the joy of strength. Dammit...
I do not blame people for taking steroids but I do make fun of idiots like Coleman and that French Canadian fuckwit whose name escapes me right now. ;D And that McKidney guy that died with the test level of every memeber of Dykes on Bikes in him. ;D
I met a few of the Gold's Gym guys in the so called golden era and they were fairly honest and they didn't seem to risk their health like the compeitive dolts of today. I have had my test levels checked and they are abysmal but then they never were great. Sorry for the rambling. It's nice to be here. Take care!
Thank you Scott
I respect the views of those that do not wish to use anabolic’s Good for Them.
Not so keen on those preaching death & hate on the likes of myself because I choose to use them.
The Internet has lead to the Huge overuse of PED’s as the more is better mentality has took hold,
Many want to believe that others have a better / bigger physique just because of the amount of PED’s they take & Nothing to do with Genetics / motivation/ discipline/ training/ eating - Nope Just More & More Drugs.
You only have to look through the steroid board on here at So Many Exacting Experts on Precise Dosaging - And Ronnie & Dorian took 10lbs of Test a week & 1000iu of GH + 10,000 Iu’s of insulin
So we have to take double that. 🙄
Hope life is good with you. 👍🏻
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From the gym to the sales floor -
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/D8kPImEouHE/maxresdefault.jpg).
"Put that creatine down, creatine's for closers"
Hahaha - legit reference 8)
Always Be Closing Squatting
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From the gym to the sales floor -
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/D8kPImEouHE/maxresdefault.jpg).
"Put that creatine down, creatine's for closers"
;D
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Many want to believe that others have a better / bigger physique just because of the amount of PED’s they take & Nothing to do with Genetics / motivation/ discipline/ training/ eating - Nope Just More & More Drugs.
You only have to look through the steroid board on here at So Many Exacting Experts on Precise Dosaging - And Ronnie & Dorian took 10lbs of Test a week & 1000iu of GH + 10,000 Iu’s of insulin
So we have to take double that. 🙄
I have made some observations over time, tell me if you disagree with the following. To outsiders - guys who don't train - bodybuilders/juicers will always emphasize how drugs are only a small part of bodybuilding and get really incensed if these outsiders imply that their muscle is mostly due to drugs. However, when bodybuilders gossip about other bodybuilders, it's always how much is X taking, X is insane with his dosages, look at this guy, X is sweating like a pig from DNP, X is taking 2 grams of tren, I heard X is doing 30iu of pharma growth. The other day a guy I met for the first time in the gym asked me half-jokingly if I would help him win his first show. He was kinda insecure, didn't know if he was good enough to compete. I told him, and I was completely serious with this, is that the main thing for success is committing to competing - if there is any doubt as to wether they really want to compete it's better not to do it. At this point my friend who is a very good bb chimed in, "basically, if you really nail the stack you will do very well" :D
So, bbers get really pissed when outsiders talk drugs but bbers themselves are no better, they will always think/talk about what successful bb X is doing as far as drugs. It's always been like this, as long as I've been involved, about 3 decades. Yes everyone with half a brain knows bb is mostly genetics but you can't do anything about that. You can however do more drugs or do different ones :D
My point is, the drug emphasis comes from the within the sport itself, it's not just "idiots" who emphasize it. And it's not just the new generation, it's the old timers too. I mean if old timers are asked about today's generation, why they are bigger and more cut, they will always "blame" the drugs. They will not say that the new generation knows more about nutrition, are more strict with it, train harder with better plans, are more disciplined with more willpower, and have more scientific methods. No it's just the drugs, nothing else. Is this envy or just being realistic?
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Gotta love Getbig. I thought, mistakenly, that Platz was a sales man, and not everyone made him into a sales man! :D ;D
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Close - someone else on here sent me the link when I mentioned fart-powder
"Platz is the consummate professional, whether in the oiled-up world of bodybuilding or buttoned-up corporate offices. Though he felt the pull of a new generation of fans encouraging him to jump back into the sport, he was reluctant to leave his job as a corporate recruiter. Then his boss encouraged him.
“My CEO at the corporate office told me, ‘If you don’t leave, I’m going to fire you,’” Platz says, laughing. “He wasn’t really serious, but he knew I needed to do this, so I resigned. I began to tour the world, mostly in Europe, giving training seminars and squat clinics.”
His website said after retiring from BB he'd gone into his 'dream career' as a second hand car salesman, so I suppose the corporate gig came after that..?
https://www.oldschoollabs.com/tom-platz-now/ (https://www.oldschoollabs.com/tom-platz-now/)
At least he has a massive IFBB pension to fall back on.
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Not so keen on those preaching death & hate on the likes of myself because I choose to use them.
The Internet has lead to the Huge overuse of PED’s as the more is better mentality has took hold,
Many want to believe that others have a better / bigger physique just because of the amount of PED’s they take & Nothing to do with Genetics / motivation/ discipline/ training/ eating - Nope Just More & More Drugs.
You only have to look through the steroid board on here at So Many Exacting Experts on Precise Dosaging - And Ronnie & Dorian took 10lbs of Test a week & 1000iu of GH + 10,000 Iu’s of insulin
So we have to take double that. 🙄
I agree with you, PEDs have their place. In my experience they can assist one in their bodybuilding and sports related goals as long as they are used in moderation. What is moderation? that may vary a little from one person to the next since people don't all have the same reaction. And the key is assist, not do it for you. Like you said genetics, training and diet play a huge roll. So much so, some people do fine without PEDs.
I strongly recommend anyone considering PEDs consult with an expert. Knowledgeable folks aren't easy to find whether they are professionals, such as doctors or people with a great deal of experience and who are honest. It was my good fortune to have them prescribed by a legitimate doctor. But this was decades ago, and AAS like D-bol were legal and some doctors were educated in the use of PEDs. Although, I subsequently took D-bol after it became difficult to get, I followed my original very modest prescription of 5 mg a day. You'd be surprised at how much one can gain on that dose when combined with a solid workout regime and excellent eating habits.
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What is moderation? that may vary a little from one person to the next since people don't all have the same reaction. And the key is assist, not do it for you.
I have made this point many times here. Moderation and abuse are extremely arbitrary terms. Use, don't abuse they say. Yeah okay, ask 10 guys where the line between the two is and you get 10 different answers.
Also this thing about "not having the drugs do it for you". Okay, but what if you can get drugs to do things for you with no effort on your part - is there anything wrong with that per se? Most have not thought this through IMO. It's like the idea of fairness in sport, the main reson drugs are banned. But if you think about it sports were never fair to begin with, different genetics, different opportunities wrt training and coaching and on and on, the playing field is never fair no matter what. In bodybuilding we would like to believe a persons physique is a reflection of their mental strength and will and time and effort they put into their craft, not genetics or drugs or what have you. But that's not reality.
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At one time Tom was very into acting classes. When he was in his prime, I always saw a Robert-Redford vibe in his face (no homo). The anabolic drugs made his jaw dramatically more ... pronounced, as well. He did some small-time theatre, I think. Anyway ...
He has a love for cars, so him dealing in them in some capacity never seemed too far off.
Corporate atmosphere? Sure, in certain forms. He’s super animated and passionate.
Platz is my original muscle-man inspiration and informed a lot of how I view the sport in its purity. As I’ve matured as a weight trainer I have come to disagree with elements of how he trained, but I also would never question the energy and ferocity with which he attacked the weights. Certainly he was a gifted squatter and presented the world a lower body that in many ways still has not been bettered.
Tom’s a romantic in his thinking about pretty much everything.
He’s a legend, justifiably, and a decent fella, to boot.
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He was my inspiration for bodybuilding as well.
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he was totally wrong when he said "you always have five more reps left in you"
If that was the case he would still be on his first set of squats.
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he was totally wrong when he said "you always have five more reps left in you"
If that was the case he would still be on his first set of squats.
:D Yes, plus his crazy intensity ended up hurting him and prematurely ending his competitive career.
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I have made this point many times here. Moderation and abuse are extremely arbitrary terms. Use, don't abuse they say. Yeah okay, ask 10 guys where the line between the two is and you get 10 different answers.
Also this thing about "not having the drugs do it for you". Okay, but what if you can get drugs to do things for you with no effort on your part - is there anything wrong with that per se? Most have not thought this through IMO. It's like the idea of fairness in sport, the main reson drugs are banned. But if you think about it sports were never fair to begin with, different genetics, different opportunities wrt training and coaching and on and on, the playing field is never fair no matter what. In bodybuilding we would like to believe a persons physique is a reflection of their mental strength and will and time and effort they put into their craft, not genetics or drugs or what have you. But that's not reality.
Moderation isn't that hard to define when it isn't just a self-definition, but one confirmed by honest professioanls (doctors). Don't ask 10 guys who don't really know what they are talking about or have any real expertise. I have a high tolerance for alcohol. Does this mean if I have one drink an hour for 8 hours, I am drinking in moderation? Of course it doesn't. Likewise, if without a diagnosis of hypogonadism or low testosterone, I inject 250 mg of test cyp a week, that is a moderate dose? Most endocrinologists and general practitioners would agree that it isn't.
Sports may not be fair, but that doesn't mean the playing field should be a level as possible. If the only reason a person is on testosterone is to up their game, they aren't playing fair. It is debatable as to whether competitive bodybuilding is really a sport or just an indulgence. It serves no practical purpose. Likewise, as mentioned before, if the only reason someone is taking AAS or hormones is to win a contest in order to go home with a plastic trophy or even just to sport 8% bodyfat while being technically obese because of their weight....for example most 5'7" fellows who weigh 225 lbs and are ripped to the bone aren't just genetically gifted, they're on something. There is nothing moderate about this, even if it were all natural. Even if it is because the person is ingesting twice their weigh in grams of protein.
Moderation may be an arbitrary term, but logic and reason play a role in defining what is moderate and what is not as well.
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I have made some observations over time, tell me if you disagree with the following. To outsiders - guys who don't train - bodybuilders/juicers will always emphasize how drugs are only a small part of bodybuilding and get really incensed if these outsiders imply that their muscle is mostly due to drugs. However, when bodybuilders gossip about other bodybuilders, it's always how much is X taking, X is insane with his dosages, look at this guy, X is sweating like a pig from DNP, X is taking 2 grams of tren, I heard X is doing 30iu of pharma growth. The other day a guy I met for the first time in the gym asked me half-jokingly if I would help him win his first show. He was kinda insecure, didn't know if he was good enough to compete. I told him, and I was completely serious with this, is that the main thing for success is committing to competing - if there is any doubt as to wether they really want to compete it's better not to do it. At this point my friend who is a very good bb chimed in, "basically, if you really nail the stack you will do very well" :D
So, bbers get really pissed when outsiders talk drugs but bbers themselves are no better, they will always think/talk about what successful bb X is doing as far as drugs. It's always been like this, as long as I've been involved, about 3 decades. Yes everyone with half a brain knows bb is mostly genetics but you can't do anything about that. You can however do more drugs or do different ones :D
My point is, the drug emphasis comes from the within the sport itself, it's not just "idiots" who emphasize it. And it's not just the new generation, it's the old timers too. I mean if old timers are asked about today's generation, why they are bigger and more cut, they will always "blame" the drugs. They will not say that the new generation knows more about nutrition, are more strict with it, train harder with better plans, are more disciplined with more willpower, and have more scientific methods. No it's just the drugs, nothing else. Is this envy or just being realistic?
I make very similar observations everyday I go to the gym.
Idiots will be idiots & talk stupid nonsense.
Do I believe pro’s take more nowadays because they are “bigger” ( Though remove the monstrous guts off of very many of them) & I don’t see many being that much bigger, Let alone better.
The different use of drugs, food, training & far more people being involved in the gyms all contribute.
There are those now who will be envious no different to when Ronnie,Dorian,Lee H, Arnold Etc were the
Best of their times. Was it more drugs for them also.
There are many great physiques around & are not solely created by “more” drugs
I don’t hear many serious old timers talk like that.
Sure some do & some are jealous.
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I agree with you, PEDs have their place. In my experience they can assist one in their bodybuilding and sports related goals as long as they are used in moderation. What is moderation? that may vary a little from one person to the next since people don't all have the same reaction. And the key is assist, not do it for you. Like you said genetics, training and diet play a huge roll. So much so, some people do fine without PEDs.
I strongly recommend anyone considering PEDs consult with an expert. Knowledgeable folks aren't easy to find whether they are professionals, such as doctors or people with a great deal of experience and who are honest. It was my good fortune to have them prescribed by a legitimate doctor. But this was decades ago, and AAS like D-bol were legal and some doctors were educated in the use of PEDs. Although, I subsequently took D-bol after it became difficult to get, I followed my original very modest prescription of 5 mg a day. You'd be surprised at how much one can gain on that dose when combined with a solid workout regime and excellent eating habits.
Good post Prime
Yes there are so many variables to take into consideration for sure.
Also I’m well aware how much improvement could be made by very small dosages
In combination with training & food intake.
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Moderation isn't that hard to define when it isn't just a self-definition, but one confirmed by honest professioanls (doctors). Don't ask 10 guys who don't really know what they are talking about or have any real expertise. I have a high tolerance for alcohol. Does this mean if I have one drink an hour for 8 hours, I am drinking in moderation? Of course it doesn't. Likewise, if without a diagnosis of hypogonadism or low testosterone, I inject 250 mg of test cyp a week, that is a moderate dose? Most endocrinologists and general practitioners would agree that it isn't.
Well you know that Doctors have prescribed drugs in ways that later is deemed abusive. You had a Dbol script IIRC, The Coach here had a Dr prescribe him Dbol and Deca (or one or the other, I forget) when he was like 15 years old!
Doctors annihilated whole towns in the US with Oxycontin scripts.
Your testosterone script is still considered highly experimental and perhaps dangerous by much of Europe for example. Things are changing but the HRT business is still seen as unethical quackery here by many or most Doctors.
Doctors scripts were behind the whole of the Golden Age of early competitive bodybuilding.
"Medical need" is not cut and dry at all, it changes with the times.
Another example: there was this Dr Ferrari who was involved in doping professional cyclists. His defence when "busted" was that he was actually attending to cyclists medical needs, he was protecting their health when he supplied them with EPO, testosterone, GH and whatever else! EPO was no more dangerous than orange juice he said. The races were so brutal they had a real medical need for assistance so their bodies wouldn't break down. It was cycling itself that was abusive, not the drugs.
So you see how this line between use and abuse is very fluid even within the medical community.
So you are saying any use outside of the currently medically accepted indications is abuse, but new categories of indications will be added with time. Sometimes some practises will be withdrawn if new data emerges saying HRT for example is deemed to do more harm than good. Unlikely to happen though, as body image and "feeling good" and "quality of life" is so important in our society.
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Another example: there was this Dr Ferrari who was involved in doping professional cyclists. His defence when "busted" was that he was actually attending to cyclists medical needs, he was protecting their health when he supplied them with EPO, testosterone, GH and whatever else! EPO was no more dangerous than orange juice he said. The races were so brutal they had a real medical need for assistance so their bodies wouldn't break down. It was cycling itself that was abusive, not the drugs.
So you see how this line between use and abuse is very fluid even within the medical community.
I watched the Lance Armstrong documentary and found that interesting as well. Very interesting way of putting it. That's one thing i have learned from having an Endocrinologist as a good friend. In his words, "drug gurus are no different than a nutritionist". I find this a little off, but i see where he is coming from. If a person is going to compete at the highest level and make the choice to use PED's, they want to have the right advice. Same reason bodybuilder's higher "coaches" to help them prepare for a contest. You would think the individual would know their body the best at a professional level?
I find that people who have never used recreational drugs or PED's are the hardest people to discuss it with. They are so against something that they aren't willing to be open minded, when in reality experimenting with certain things opens your eyes to a more diverse world. Now there is a big difference between smoking a joint every now and then compared to shooting heroin all day long, of course. But i find that people in the athletic community who have used PED's have a very open mind about competition. Like you said, the lifters in the gym that juice and talk about it, are always labeling others as the high dose users, "he must be on a few grams" mentality. The biggest/strongest guy in my gym is always labeled as the mega dose dude, it's been that way at every gym.
One of my dad's good friends is an engineering professor at Rice University in Houston, he's very highly educated and brilliant. The guy drinks scotch and smokes weed every evening, gets pretty loaded up, but keeps his head in a good place. I've been to his house on the weekends, he'll get ripped on some weed and talk about the most amazing things. It's not just rambling, the guy is a genius IMO, what he says makes perfect sense. He has developed structural engineering theories that are documented in the teachings of the university while blasted out of his mind. Very interesting person.
I don't like to disagree with you, illuminati, Prime or anyone else, but i think 100% that the reason you see bodybuilders change from 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's, 10's is due to drugs and understanding how to use them. Sure people train smarter today and nutrition is improving, but the changes in drugs and advancement in the knowledge of how to use GH/slin is making a difference IMO.
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I find that people who have never used recreational drugs or PED's are the hardest people to discuss it with. They are so against something that they aren't willing to be open minded, when in reality experimenting with certain things opens your eyes to a more diverse world.
Absolutely. When I started training 3 decades ago the anti-steroid propaganda was crazy, after Ben Johnson was busted, and most people bought it. Steroids would make you a murderer and make you keel over within weeks. One friend's parents found a gym bag full of steroids under his bed wwhen he was like 17. The guy told his parents that he was only holding the bag for a friend and I suppose they believed him, or wanted to believe. The parents told him that if they ever learned that he had taken steroids they would disown him. That's how terrible steroids were, they no doubt influenced by the crazy proganda in the media. The guy is still using steroids almost 30 years later, but the parents suspect nothing :D These anti-drug hysterics are the same type who would call the cops on a family member if they suspected they had smoked a joint. Of course alcohol was totally fine, there must be a good reason why it was legal as opposed to weed. My aunts once called the cops on my uncle, the black sheep of the family, when they found a piece of hashish among his possessions - of course those aunts had no experience with cannabis not seen the effects of its use, all they knew was that it was absolutely ruinous and was worth causing big legal problems for a family member, they would save him by this action :D
Today steroid use is everywhere and much more accepted. Same with weed, now with legalization we see even successful people use, including presidents and the most successful business people, though some of the older generations are still alive and stuck in their indoctrination :D
This is if course not to say there are no potential problems with PEDs or recs.
The main risk with both is legal problems. Those will fuck you up.