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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: affeman on September 10, 2021, 02:05:02 AM
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In a video series this week Roman is talking about all his cycles from day 1 (age 17) on.
In 2016 he placed 4th at the Tampa Pro and up until this point his use was pretty moderate (around 700 mg Test per week; stacked with some Equipoise and Deca in the Off-Season, and with Winnies the last few weeks b4 the competition; GH only up to 3 IUs per day). After Tampa Milos got in touch with him and gave him a new protocol, and Roman said it's like insane what this guy wanted him to take - like everything there is simultaneously, just with stupidly switching of esters etc. every 3 weeks, and also completely senseless switches in aromatase inhibitors (like one day arimidex, the next day exemestane, the next day letrozole etc, then all over again ???). Besides eg 100 mg Anadrol/day and 1 gr of Test per week Milos had him immediately on 8 IUs of GH/day (the most he ever had taken b4 that was 3 IUs) and 25 IUs of rapid Slin 4 times per day intravenous (!!) together with L-carnitine lol
He quit the protocol after a few weeks, BP was through the roof, he wasn't able to train anymore because he was so pumped after 1 warm-up set that he couldn't do one full rep anymore, and his entire body felt like it was about to implode. Squatting he started off his first warm-up set with 315, because with lighter weight he wasn't able to even bend his knees and get down in the squat position, because his legs were so pumped just from warming up on the bike :D
I don't even wanna know how many unknown amateurs are 6 feet under because of that guy:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/HoFn8e43u9ZdnJ3Z3hrQoOi9GwrFnxHnWNsR-hMo1qWA8nLEgBb8Uw2PCexhQnltqY0JcqPtOW9q2kDZ1994UqxUxwFZuuoMGiwvRU-MuvPHsYu3z9imPND6TPoaUZXnyO7CIC5tif0qeXcD19Jb7OF-m0mdIbeYeoBMaX_tXwC4DFA)
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Yet on Fouad's latest show, he said he's taking 8 units of GH a day still.
said he had to go up a shoe-size recently.
Healthy and normal... ::)
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Yet on Fouad's latest show, he said he's taking 8 units of GH a day still.
said he had to go up a shoe-size recently.
Healthy and normal... ::)
He still got ways to go to chase jumbo palumbo with his clown shoe size 16
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In a video series this week Roman is talking about all his cycles from day 1 (age 17) on.
In 2016 he placed 4th at the Tampa Pro and up until this point his use was pretty moderate (around 700 mg Test per week; stacked with some Equipoise and Deca in the Off-Season, and with Winnies the last few weeks b4 the competition; GH only up to 3 IUs per day). After Tampa Milos got in touch with him and gave him a new protocol, and Roman said it's like insane what this guy wanted him to take - like everything there is simultaneously, just with stupidly switching of esters etc. every 3 weeks, and also completely senseless switches in aromatase inhibitors (like one day arimidex, the next day exemestane, the next day letrozole etc, then all over again ???). Besides eg 100 mg Anadrol/day and 1 gr of Test per week Milos had him immediately on 8 IUs of GH/day (the most he ever had taken b4 that was 3 IUs) and 25 IUs of rapid Slin 4 times per day intravenous (!!) together with L-carnitine lol
He quit the protocol after a few weeks, BP was through the roof, he wasn't able to train anymore because he was so pumped after 1 warm-up set that he couldn't do one full rep anymore, and his entire body felt like it was about to implode. Squatting he started off his first warm-up set with 315, because with lighter weight he wasn't able to even bend his knees and get down in the squat position, because his legs were so pumped just from warming up on the bike :D
I don't even wanna know how many unknown amateurs are 6 feet under because of that guy:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/HoFn8e43u9ZdnJ3Z3hrQoOi9GwrFnxHnWNsR-hMo1qWA8nLEgBb8Uw2PCexhQnltqY0JcqPtOW9q2kDZ1994UqxUxwFZuuoMGiwvRU-MuvPHsYu3z9imPND6TPoaUZXnyO7CIC5tif0qeXcD19Jb7OF-m0mdIbeYeoBMaX_tXwC4DFA)
According to bhanky the sweet spot for gh is 30 IU’s a day
Take as much you can afford was the advice
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I don't know about the intravenuous slin. I feel like we would've heard about it before if it was something he did. It's possible but it's strange this is the first time I've heard of it. I've even seen some of Milos' plans in confidence and I never saw anything about IV slin.
Everyone says Milos' steroid doses are way low compared to all the other gurus. It's just that he relies so much on insulin instead. 100iu of insulin a day isn't necessarily very extreme either if that is the peak dose with twice daily workouts. These days a lot of guys gravitate towards Lantus which Milos hates. You can easily do 60 or 100iu of that with dozens of units of Humalog added on top. I've tried it and I'm just a tiny tit who doesn't eat half of what these guys eat.
The frequent switching of esters is something Milos believes in. Not much logic to it I admit.
8iu of growth is the sweet spot for many of the gurus. George Farah told a friend of mine that's optimal and no more is needed. Vince Taylor said he did 8iu. Yates said he did 8iu all through his career.
I recently told the story of a bb by the name Mike "Wheels." He blamed his cardiomyoparhy on Milos' prescribed 30-50iu of slin. What he forgot to say is that he was on like 3 grams of baseline test with a dozen other compounds on top. Milos told him to slash his total steroid load to like a gram a week but increase his insulin slightly. And the insulin damaged his heart Lol.
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I don't know about the intravenuous slin. I feel like we would've heard about it before if it was something he did. It's possible but it's strange this is the first time I've heard of it. I've even seen some of Milos' plans in confidence and I never saw anything about IV slin.
Everyone says Milos' steroid doses are way low compared to all the other gurus. It's just that he relies so much on insulin instead. 100iu of insulin a day isn't necessarily very extreme either if that is the peak dose with twice daily workouts. These days a lot of guys gravitate towards Lantus which Milos hates. You can easily do 60 or 100iu of that with dozens of units of Humalog added on top. I've tried it and I'm just a tiny tit who doesn't eat half of what these guys eat.
The frequent switching of esters is something Milos believes in. Not much logic to it I admit.
8iu of growth is the sweet spot for many of the gurus. George Farah told a friend of mine that's optimal and no more is needed. Vince Taylor said he did 8iu. Yates said he did 8iu all through his career.
I recently told the story of a bb by the name Mike "Wheels." He blamed his cardiomyoparhy on Milos' prescribed 30-50iu of slin. What he forgot to say is that he was on like 3 grams of baseline test with a dozen other compounds on top. Milos told him to slash his total steroid load to like a gram a week but increase his insulin slightly. And the insulin damaged his heart Lol.
I believe this. I remember talking to one of the gurus who prepped a friend for a show and they were discussing Milos protocols. They were saying the same thing, he’s more about insulin and not a shit ton of gear, still a lot, but not 2/3 grams of test kind of shit
One thing about Milos is whether people believe him or not is he’s pretty open about discussing cycles
The GH is accurate as well. 6-8 IU’s I’ve heard
What do you reckon Ronnie did different from 2003/2004 Olympia opposed to 1998-2001? Slin and GH?
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What do you reckon Ronnie did different from 2003/2004 Olympia opposed to 1998-2001? Slin and GH?
I think it was a lot of everything but also that they were willing to risk coming in too heavy. He wasn't in his most crisp condition. The size was just so overwhelming it didn't matter if his back was a little mushy. He was kind of going up and down in weight during his career trying for different "looks."
According to Chad he had him on a prep diet that started with high calories on monday and progressively got lower through the week.
But it would be interesting to know how much the dosages changed for 03. My guess is insulin was used more at least, not just 1-3 days per week at low dosages that Chad used to talk about.
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Milos has never advised anyone to take more than 1500 mgs per week total, he gets a lot of bad press, but most of his guys took more without his knowledge, some of his insulin timing and protocols can be extreme, not dosage wise just timing of shots etc, some people can handle it others can't, it wasn't for me thats for sure, only time in my life I didn't enjoy training was when doing it with his insulin protocol.
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sounds like a recipe for a long and healthy life...
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I don't know about the intravenuous slin. I feel like we would've heard about it before if it was something he did. It's possible but it's strange this is the first time I've heard of it. I've even seen some of Milos' plans in confidence and I never saw anything about IV slin.
@13:30 Roman says Milos said to him the faster the better, and IV administration of the Slin would be "optimal", but he's aware that hardly anyone does it. Roman did, always taking it in one syringe together with injectable l-carnitine. Holy shit, imagine injecting yourself 4 times per day (!!) intravenous :D (besides all the androgens and the GH you're taking anyways)
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@13:30 Roman says Milos said to him the faster the better, and IV administration of the Slin would be "optimal", but he's aware that hardly anyone does it. Roman did, always taking it in one syringe together with injectable l-carnitine. Holy shit, imagine injecting yourself 4 times per day (!!) intravenous :D (besides all the androgens and the GH you're taking anyways)
Okay, possible I guess. They have a new insulin called Fiasp that starts working in seconds pretty much subcutaneously, Milos is propably on it. :D
You are forgetting the IV narcotics. :D
GH is done IV too sometimes, though it was more popular a few years ago.
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Milos has never advised anyone to take more than 1500 mgs per week total, he gets a lot of bad press, but most of his guys took more without his knowledge, some of his insulin timing and protocols can be extreme, not dosage wise just timing of shots etc, some people can handle it others can't, it wasn't for me thats for sure, only time in my life I didn't enjoy training was when doing it with his insulin protocol.
Which was?
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Which was?
It's just Humalog before and after training, preferably 2 workouts per day. I think 25/25 is about the upper end of his dosing per workout. Dosing depends on how many carbs they can get away with.
Milos always says insulin only gives a big stomach if you don't know what you're doing. But Jordan Peters was with Milos doing 100iu a day and he says it wrecked his stomach. So much so that it's the main reason he doesn't want to compete anymore. He believes the issue is unfixable. Just severe distension and lots of abdominal tears. He did say it gave him a ton of muscle but he was so swollen he used to wake up gasping for air.
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It's just Humalog before and after training, preferably 2 workouts per day. I think 25/25 is about the upper end of his dosing per workout. Dosing depends on how many carbs they can get away with.
Milos always says insulin only gives a big stomach if you don't know what you're doing. But Jordan Peters was with Milos doing 100iu a day and he says it wrecked his stomach. So much so that it's the main reason he doesn't want to compete anymore. He believes the issue is unfixable. Just severe distension and lots of abdominal tears. He did say it gave him a ton of muscle but he was so swollen he used to wake up gasping for air.
It just seems like with Insulin a lot can go wrong I mean hypoglaucemic death aside you also can just wind up fat with a big gut but I don't know it is bio identical perhaps it is time to sprinkle some in just doubt it will do much other than make me paranoid about my blood sugar and carb intake. Thinking the fast acting OTC stuff maybe 20iu in the am and another 20iu around lunch time or early afternoon preworkout. Just a pain have to go to CVS and explain I want the OTC insulin while they look at me like I am insane. I mean will it really do anything???? Doubtful
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It just shows what these warriors go through for us
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It just seems like with Insulin a lot can go wrong I mean hypoglaucemic death aside you also can just wind up fat with a big gut but I don't know it is bio identical perhaps it is time to sprinkle some in just doubt it will do much other than make me paranoid about my blood sugar and carb intake. Thinking the fast acting OTC stuff maybe 20iu in the am and another 20iu around lunch time or early afternoon preworkout. Just a pain have to go to CVS and explain I want the OTC insulin while they look at me like I am insane
so you have taken insulin and gh..glad to see you finally admitting it there's no shame.
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It just seems like with Insulin a lot can go wrong I mean hypoglaucemic death aside you also can just wind up fat with a big gut
Serious hypoglycemic episodes where there is serious danger are very rare. Mild hypoglycemia where it's fixed in 5-10 minutes with a glass of orange juice is common especially if you are trying to get away with as few carbs as possible. Even trying to kill yourself with insulin is often unsuccessful.
You can avoid the gut if you go mild on the dosage and don't pound extreme amounts of food. You have to really work at it to end up completely blowing out your waist. But bodybuilders are extremists so they often push too far. Most top bodybuilders use insulin but they've never been leaner. The GH helps a lot.
You don't need to start at anywhere near 20iu twice daily. I would try 10iu of the "R" like an hour before workouts and see how it treats you. Start with even 5iu to assess tolerance. The R is long acting enough to cover the whole workout period so you wouldn't do 2 shots before and after like you might with Milos' Humalog protocol.
With experience you learn when you need to start eating and when the dose has basically petered out. I remember Duchaine saying he would take Humulin R, drive ro the gym, workout, drive back and when he was through the door he felt he needed to eat. But I wouldn't go anywhere without some juice or glucose tabs when insulin is active. You don't want to get stuck in traffic while going hypo with no carbs on hand. With Humalog I learned that if I hadn't gone hypo by 2 hours it was not going to happen even if I stopped eating at that point. Sometimes I would induce hypoglycemia purposely just for the pleasure you feel eating finally. Once I had taken Humalog sitting 3 feet from my fridge reading getbig. After an hour I could feel hypo coming on but continued playing with my cell for another half an hour. Then I started seeing stars and sweating profusely and had barely the energy to stand up and open the fridge Lol.
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Stuff is dangerous and retarded to use (slin), but that's BB for ya...
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=674552.0;attach=1326120;image)
The amount of litter around the floor is quite impressive.
Here's another picture from that photo session:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/8183/8125819892_85a1ffca55_b.jpg)
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Stuff is dangerous and retarded to use (slin), but that's BB for ya...
It's a natural hormone. Some gurus have said if they had a teen son who wanted to start doping they would have them start out with an all bioidentical stack: just test, gh and insulin. Safest and best return. Insulin is seen as some advanced PED but why? You are secreting insulin constantly anyway. They would not let them use any synthetic anabolics. Just a low dose of test, gh and insulin. It's not a crazy idea and makes sense. GH used to be seen as an advanced PED for no other reason that it was so expensive. No reason not to start including it from the start.
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He still got ways to go to chase jumbo palumbo with his clown shoe size 16
WTF? I've never seen his feet so I couldn't imagine how fugly they must look on the munchkin.
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Which was?
As Van described, basically insulin and GH can take your physique to the next level, the fullness and roundness or the modern look is dependent on its use. Its what separates modern bodybuilding, from the anabolic only era, there is a 12 month window where it works very well, then in my opinion spills over and blows out the waist. I mainly used insulin as GH was still very expensive back in the 90s, there are methods as described by Van that can make you feel very uncomfortable, but the results can be substantial, for get biggers just train and be healthy, everything in moderation and insulin use is not what i consider moderation,
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WTF? I've never seen his feet so I couldn't imagine how fugly they must look on the munchkin.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=c6df8b930a638a8df8d5097515e3bf41&action=dlattach;topic=364081.0;attach=998896;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=631844.0;attach=985768;image)
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WTF? I've never seen his feet so I couldn't imagine how fugly they must look on the munchkin.
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He still got ways to go to chase jumbo palumbo with his clown shoe size 16
do the growth plates in feet and hands never fuse like most other bones or why does some gh abusers get that?
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=364081.0;attach=399863;image)
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do the growth plates in feet and hands never fuse like most other bones or why does some gh abusers get that?
I think it's mostly a myth that they grow from GH. Temporarily thicker like the hands of GH users but what we're seeing is just people with genetically long feet.
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I used Slin off and on for about 4 years. It makes you grow like crazy.
Not as dangerous as you think if you actually know what you are doing.
I liked using Log because it's fast acting, in and out.
20iu before lunch, 20iu before training with a intra workout shake and 20iu after training before dinner. Makes you extremely hungry too.
Adds like 20 pounds in a month.
Never had a bad episode on it. Just need to understand how many carbs to eat afterwards and have an orange juice available if you feel bad. The first few weeks you learn how many carbs you need. Also as Van said you don't just stuff yourself with shit food. You eat just enough carbs to stay level and eat a lot of healthy protein and fats.
Just adding GH and Slin can pack on a lot of pounds. It's why most guys these days are so thick and bulky.
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It's just Humalog before and after training, preferably 2 workouts per day. I think 25/25 is about the upper end of his dosing per workout. Dosing depends on how many carbs they can get away with.
Milos always says insulin only gives a big stomach if you don't know what you're doing. But Jordan Peters was with Milos doing 100iu a day and he says it wrecked his stomach. So much so that it's the main reason he doesn't want to compete anymore. He believes the issue is unfixable. Just severe distension and lots of abdominal tears. He did say it gave him a ton of muscle but he was so swollen he used to wake up gasping for air.
How does insulin in and of itself give you a big gut? It seems to me that an extraordinary surplus of calories will give you a big gut whether you use insulin or not. I think that when a bber is on insulin they tend to overeat both because they are bulking but also because they are afraid of going hypo. This 10 grams of carbs per unit of slin just seems kind of arbitrary.
If you are on maintenance or, especially a caloric deficit, you can take all the slin you want and your stomach won't get big. At least I can't see how slin in and of itself will expand your stomach, an organ. But stuffing yourself every day for years will stretch and expand your stomach, which we see every day for in the vast majority living in first world countries.
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I just don’t see how insulin is going to add size by itself without additional calories. The only thing I can think is it may clear out your blood of nutrients push into your muscles this allwing your system to digest your food faster but you would still need to eat more
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Serious hypoglycemic episodes where there is serious danger are very rare. Mild hypoglycemia where it's fixed in 5-10 minutes with a glass of orange juice is common especially if you are trying to get away with as few carbs as possible. Even trying to kill yourself with insulin is often unsuccessful.
You can avoid the gut if you go mild on the dosage and don't pound extreme amounts of food. You have to really work at it to end up completely blowing out your waist. But bodybuilders are extremists so they often push too far. Most top bodybuilders use insulin but they've never been leaner. The GH helps a lot.
You don't need to start at anywhere near 20iu twice daily. I would try 10iu of the "R" like an hour before workouts and see how it treats you. Start with even 5iu to assess tolerance. The R is long acting enough to cover the whole workout period so you wouldn't do 2 shots before and after like you might with Milos' Humalog protocol.
With experience you learn when you need to start eating and when the dose has basically petered out. I remember Duchaine saying he would take Humulin R, drive ro the gym, workout, drive back and when he was through the door he felt he needed to eat. But I wouldn't go anywhere without some juice or glucose tabs when insulin is active. You don't want to get stuck in traffic while going hypo with no carbs on hand. With Humalog I learned that if I hadn't gone hypo by 2 hours it was not going to happen even if I stopped eating at that point. Sometimes I would induce hypoglycemia purposely just for the pleasure you feel eating finally. Once I had taken Humalog sitting 3 feet from my fridge reading getbig. After an hour I could feel hypo coming on but continued playing with my cell for another half an hour. Then I started seeing stars and sweating profusely and had barely the energy to stand up and open the fridge Lol.
Reminding me of a friend who couldn't afford HGH but, like you, loved the science part of it and was very well-read. He learned that there is an inverse relationship between blood sugar and GH. That when blood sugar is low GH production increases. That's why you produce the most GH naturally when you sleep because that's when you are most fasted. When I told him about the results of my Insulin Sensitivity test that my TRT doctor (an endocrinologist that worked primarily with diabetics) had me do. Where it showed clearly that when they injected insulin into one vein forcing my blood sugar to drop, and when I was blacking out, my GH would shoot up, and then when they would inject Dextrose into another vein my GH production would drop as my blood sugar increased. This gave him an idea.
Using slin he would intentionally get himself into a hypoglycemic state, like you, he realized that the dangers of slin are exaggerated and even when you are in a state where you are dripping with sweat you still have a lot of time to get in some sugar before you pass out. The idea was to stimulate his own GH production.
It worked. He had a marked increase in his IGF level when he got it tested after a few weeks of this protocol.
Now I wonder how many people reading this will head to Walmart for some Novolin R and do this themselves. Just be sure to pick up some glucose tab as well or better yet, have a plate of pancakes and Corn syrup (which is just pure dextrose) in front of you when you start sweating and getting woozy.
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I know everyone thinks I am small but I am telling you I have freak forearms some random commented on them again today they are absolutely going to look at me like a crazy person when I ask for insulin at Walmart but fuck it here goes
Just not convinced it is going to do a damn thing tried it once in my 20s don’t recall it doing anything
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I know everyone thinks I am small but I am telling you I have freak forearms some random commented on them again today they are absolutely going to look at me like a crazy person when I ask for insulin at Walmart but fuck it here goes
Just not convinced it is going to do a damn thing tried it once in my 20s don’t recall it doing anything
So you are now using insulin? After you swore up and down you never would use it?
Now randomly getbig has convinced you to use it?
Do you ever get tired of the lies Shizo? I mean Brian?
When you are surrounded by guys this is what usually happens.
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Well fuck I got the damn Novalin did I need the humalin
The key is to be low carb n high fat with insulin
Zero carb works best or intermittent fasting
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So you are now using insulin? After you swore up and down you never would use it?
Now randomly getbig has convinced you to use it?
Do you ever get tired of the lies Shizo? I mean Brian?
When you are surrounded by guys this is what usually happens.
Nothing random about it my pancreas is tired needs some help perfectly legal over the counter supplement and was only 25$ will give it a month see how it goes doubt it will do anything
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Actually more excited to experiment with my other new legal compound that arrived today
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How are you going to run the insulin ?
10 iu x 6 times a day has worked best for me
Added 40 lbs last off season.
If you use this method you are in a anabolic state around the clock.
Very safe
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I just don’t see how insulin is going to add size by itself without additional calories. The only thing I can think is it may clear out your blood of nutrients push into your muscles this allwing your system to digest your food faster but you would still need to eat more
It activates a lot of anabolic and anticatabolic switches. It also has other effects such as being antiinflammatory which can help on a hard training program.
It worked. He had a marked increase in his IGF level when he got it tested after a few weeks of this protocol.
Insulin can increase IGF apart from due to the induced hypooglycmia/gh release.
There are differences between insulins. Lantus in particular is effective for this and the data is there showing it. Just google on it. A bb on professionalmuscle had a doubling of his IGF with only 2 weekly 25iu Lantus shots. Now the question is how important high levels of IGF are, if at all. Interestingly steroids like tren can lower IGF but the assumption is that it increases IGF in the muscles itself at the same time. And this is seen as more important.
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It activates a lot of anabolic and anticatabolic switches. It also has other effects such as being antiinflammatory which can help on a hard training program.
Insulin can increase IGF apart from due to the induced hypooglycmia/gh release.
There are differences between insulins. Lantus in particular is effective for this and the data is there showing it. Just google on it. A bb on professionalmuscle had a doubling of his IGF with only 2 weekly 25iu Lantus shots. Now the question is how important high levels of IGF are, if at all. Interestingly steroids like tren can lower IGF but the assumption is that it increases IGF in the muscles itself at the same time. And this is seen as more important.
We will see what kind of synergetic effect it has again my main hope is it pushes nutrients through false allwing me to eat more
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I know everyone thinks I am small but I am telling you I have freak forearms some random commented on them again today they are absolutely going to look at me like a crazy person when I ask for insulin at Walmart but fuck it here goes
Just not convinced it is going to do a damn thing tried it once in my 20s don’t recall it doing anything
STFU you weirdo! Forty-three fuking years old and so worried that strangers on a message board don't think you are big. Talk about arrested development. You still have the mind of a child and the self-delusion of a psycho.
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It activates a lot of anabolic and anticatabolic switches. It also has other effects such as being antiinflammatory which can help on a hard training program.
Insulin can increase IGF apart from due to the induced hypooglycmia/gh release.
There are differences between insulins. Lantus in particular is effective for this and the data is there showing it. Just google on it. A bb on professionalmuscle had a doubling of his IGF with only 2 weekly 25iu Lantus shots. Now the question is how important high levels of IGF are, if at all. Interestingly steroids like tren can lower IGF but the assumption is that it increases IGF in the muscles itself at the same time. And this is seen as more important.
Two 25 iu shots a week?! I know it's long-acting but this long? Please confirm this is not a typo.
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Two 25 iu shots a week?! I know it's long-acting but this long? Please confirm this is not a typo.
Yes it was only 2 shots in a week. Sounded strange to me too. But the bodybuilding relevance of this elevation is pretty unknown.
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Yes it was only 2 shots in a week. Sounded strange to me too. But the bodybuilding relevance of this elevation is pretty unknown.
So you're not sure about the importance of systemic IGF as it pertains to muscle hypertrophy? Isn't that how doctors determine how your body (liver) is processing HGH? I remember Bostin Lyold saying that even at 20ius he couldn't get his IGF levels to budge much whereas there is a guy on another board who posted his blood work where his IGF was in the 500s on just 5ius of GH. Is someone like Bostin just fucked?
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So you're not sure about the importance of systemic IGF as it pertains to muscle hypertrophy? Isn't that how doctors determine how your body (liver) is processing HGH? I remember Bostin Lyold saying that even at 20ius he couldn't get his IGF levels to budge much whereas there is a guy on another board who posted his blood work where his IGF was in the 500s on just 5ius of GH. Is someone like Bostin just fucked?
It's a proxy marker for GH levels but there's some question as to how important it is in itself. Some think it's the local IGF in muscle that matters. The poster who had these results always has lower levels of IGF on tren but tren is known to increase local IGF.
Yeah Bostin thought he might be a nonresponder to GH but perhaps not if he has higher IGF in muscle.
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It's a proxy marker for GH levels but there's some question as to how important it is in itself. Some think it's the local IGF in muscle that matters. The poster who had these results always has lower levels of IGF on tren but tren is known to increase local IGF.
Yeah Bostin thought he might be a nonresponder to GH but perhaps not if he has higher IGF in muscle.
Is there a way to measure the IGF in muscle or is it just system levels at this time?
Also, if you are a nonresponder in the sense that Llyod is, are there still benefits of HGH as far as muscle hypertrophy? I was under the impression that most, if not all, of the benefits of HGH come from it's conversion to IGF.
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Is there a way to measure the IGF in muscle or is it just system levels at this time?
Also, if you are a nonresponder in the sense that Llyod is, are there still benefits of HGH as far as muscle hypertrophy? I was under the impression that most, if not all, of the benefits of HGH come from it's conversion to IGF.
I don't think there is any way to test local levels for a normal citizen.
What would be interesting would be to see what kind of systemic IGF-1 levels the top pros have on average. If the levels are any higher than much less genetically gifted bodybuilders also on similar doses of GH. There might not be any difference... or there might be, I don't know.
GH action seems very complicated and I don't pretend to understand it all. I think GH does many things apart from increasing IGF-1.
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running insulin alone
and running it with gh - are 2different things
there’s negative feedback loops that are not as active when gh is involved - like body fat storage and it ability to be used as energy/enter the blood stream
use insulin for a few weeks to fill out - increase glycogen stores - but that’s all
you’ll get running cheap walmart slin - even if you managed to eat clean calories - you’re still
not adding muscle - just filling out (for the most part of 4 weeks )
add the gh - lover produces IGF-1 - along with actual exog insulin , one that isn’t white colored
you’ll get more satellite cell or stem cell activation - where the growth , new muscle comes - or even running gh at a low dose you’ll get reduced body fat and be full
why not just run anavar or test for like 12 weeks than run just slin - most guys end up being unstable with no glucose monitor and always end up injecting too many simple carbs = no abs , no veins , fat bloated mess - all farty and slow in the gym - sure you press weight but the thought of dieting gets harder and harder - your shit food choices will get you nowhere
not talking about being single digits now and filling out - it’s adding weight that isn’t quality - the look you will achieve isn’t jay cutler-ish - it’s more like a fat truck driver who likes dairy products
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running insulin alone
and running it with gh - are 2different things
there’s negative feedback loops that are not as active when gh is involved - like body fat storage and it ability to be used as energy/enter the blood stream
use insulin for a few weeks to fill out - increase glycogen stores - but that’s all
you’ll get running cheap walmart slin - even if you managed to eat clean calories - you’re still
not adding muscle - just filling out (for the most part of 4 weeks )
add the gh - lover produces IGF-1 - along with actual exog insulin , one that isn’t white colored
you’ll get more satellite cell or stem cell activation - where the growth , new muscle comes - or even running gh at a low dose you’ll get reduced body fat and be full
why not just run anavar or test for like 12 weeks than run just slin - most guys end up being unstable with no glucose monitor and always end up injecting too many simple carbs = no abs , no veins , fat bloated mess - all farty and slow in the gym - sure you press weight but the thought of dieting gets harder and harder - your shit food choices will get you nowhere
not talking about being single digits now and filling out - it’s adding weight that isn’t quality - the look you will achieve isn’t jay cutler-ish - it’s more like a fat truck driver who likes dairy products
Who said anything about just running slin lol read above notice the word synergetic. I really doubt the slin will add any weight at all but will see I certainly don't see it making me fat as I would need to add at least 20lbs of fat to look fat not going to happen in a couple weeks especially when I am running cardirine with it
I mean I am eating as much as I can but I bet it adds 5lbs tops
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use insulin for a few weeks to fill out - increase glycogen stores - but that’s all
you’ll get running cheap walmart slin - even if you managed to eat clean calories - you’re still
not adding muscle - just filling out (for the most part of 4 weeks )
I agree with some of what you say but I don't think there's anything wrong with Humulin R. Some prefer it, like Chad Nicholls, he's been recommending it for decades over Humalog. What's the difference except duration? Of course now Lantus is all the rage. Crazy fullness and pumps. Supposedly they do a couple of hundred IUs at Oxygen gym and grow like crazy. Lantus has affinity for IGF-1 receptors and increases IGF-1 levels more than other insulins. This is a well known fact in the literature.
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I agree with some of what you say but I don't think there's anything wrong with Humulin R. Some prefer it, like Chad Nicholls, he's been recommending it for decades over Humalog. What's the difference except duration? Of course now Lantus is all the rage. Crazy fullness and pumps. Supposedly they do a couple of hundred IUs at Oxygen gym and grow like crazy. Lantus has affinity for IGF-1 receptors and increases IGF-1 levels more than other insulins. This is a well known fact in the literature.
So first it's all about fast acting slin. Milos is all about Humalog/Novolog.
In and out. Cram those nutrients in and then get back to baseline. But now it's the opposite. The slowest acting insulin. The one that is supposed to be active for 24 hours. Gets confusing.
Since Lantas is a lot harder and a lot more expensive to get would you get the same effect using Novolin N which I think is an 8-hour slin and inject 3 times a day? Both R and N is $25 at Walmart.
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Who said anything about just running slin lol read above notice the word synergetic. I really doubt the slin will add any weight at all but will see I certainly don't see it making me fat as I would need to add at least 20lbs of fat to look fat not going to happen in a couple weeks especially when I am running cardirine with it
I mean I am eating as much as I can but I bet it adds 5lbs tops
How much GH are you running on top of the insulin?
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So first it's all about fast acting slin. Milos is all about Humalog/Novolog.
In and out. Cram those nutrients in and then get back to baseline. But now it's the opposite. The slowest acting insulin. The one that is supposed to be active for 24 hours. Gets confusing.
Since Lantas is a lot harder and a lot more expensive to get would you get the same effect using Novolin N which I think is an 8-hour slin and inject 3 times a day? Both R and N is $25 at Walmart.
For glucose control you could use the N. Hard to say if Lantus is better for growth. Here is an interesting post from professionalmuscle:
Tell him he needs to buy a glucose monitor to begin testing at home. The most accurate is the Bayer Contour. I use the Next One personally. You can Google "glucometer accuracy study" for the data if interested. Strips can be costly. Best place to buy them is eBay. The Contour strips have been tested for accuracy I believe it was 2 years post expiration but without a doubt, they are good for 1 year post expire. So your best deal by far for frequent testing is to buy expired strips on eBay. You can also Google for the accuracy testing study. If you don't mind throwing money down the drain buy them wherever. Be very careful which monitor you use, many are next to useless for pre-diabetes. Personally, I would only use Bayer Contour. A one time glucose reading doesn't tell the whole story, but he is definitely likely to have impaired glucose tolerance secondary to exogenous GH. It's something me and really almost everyone frankly who has used GH for any decent period of time at high enough dose has had to deal with. He could be experiencing a pronounced dawn effect which can be exacerbated by fasting and stimulants. This is what was happening to me. Google dawn effect if you don't know what I'm talking about. I find this is extremely common with GH. In my case, A1C was fine, postprandial glucose (1-2h post-meal) later in the day was also fine. Glucose was also fine upon waking 6-8h fasted, though higher vs no exogenous GH still under 100 or right at it. Fasting and stims would increase it to pre-diabetes levels (101-125). Research catecholamines and glucose if you don't know what I'm saying. Natural catecholamines are the reason for the dawn effect and it's exacerbated with caffeine, ephedrine, modafinil, etc. I wouldn't say this is the same as DMT2 in an obese sedentary person though it does meet the diagnostic criteria for DMT2. In my experience, it won't usually get worse than this. But it is glucose intolerance and it does need to be addressed either through cessation of GH or use of metformin, insulin, berberine, gymnema and Cinsulin. In his particular case since he doesn't compete or even take AAS/T cessation is the only logical course. Once glucose has stabilized, he can resume at 2 IU qhs 5d qwk, increasing to a max of 4-5 IU qhs 5d qwk after adding metformin XR at 2gm qd if glucose levels allow. I'd also add berberine at 1200-1500 mg qd, gymnema at 400-500mg, Cinsulin at 500mg. I'd not resume the a.m. dose. The 2 days off GH should be on days off training. It's entirely possible that his glucose upon waking 8h fasted was much closer to 100, then he used GH, drank some coffee, fasted longer then his body dumped glucose from the liver because it felt like it needed glucose and had the catecholamines available to make it happen. Also worse if he didn't train the night before which he shouldn't be doing due to liver enzyme levels. If you're a competitive bodybuilder and experiencing this and don't want to get off GH just use insulin. Anyone on GH I believe should have insulin on hand to manage glucose as needed. Go to Walmart and buy an NPH and an R for $25 each. If you want to waste your money on Lantus, Levemir, Humalog, etc that's your business. Studies shave shown clearly that NPH is equally or more efficacious as basal insulin as Lantus, Levemir, etc. Same for R vs log. If you have high fasting glucose secondary to GH on metformin, add NPH qhs on GH days starting at 10 iu and titrate to response, increasing by 5iu, measured by your Contour. Add R a.m. until you get your basal bedtime dose adjusted and thereafter preprandial as needed if postprandial glucose becomes an issue. You should not spike more than 140 postprandial. Using insulin to control glucose on GH is much better than allowing elevated glucose. If you fear it, GH use may not be for you. The same way people say have anti E on hand if needed for T/AAS, you should probably initiate metformin regardless if on GH and have insulin on hand with a Contour monitor that you use multiple times per day. This will allow you to assess the dawn effect, postprandial glucose, etc. If you're on GH at 4IU or greater qd and haven't had blood work 12h fasted on stims, don't monitor at home and are not on metformin, it is highly probable that you are no different than this guy with the 125 fasted x 12h. Also, this guy likely needs TRT and is just being stupid. LMK if you have questions.
Rex
I am using Toujeo, which is an even longer acting version of Lantus.
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For glucose control you could use the N. Hard to say if Lantus is better for growth. Here is an interesting post from professionalmuscle:
I am using Toujeo, which is an even longer acting version of Lantus.
With how much GH?
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With how much GH?
Unfortunately none. :D I'm not taking a lot of insulin, just 12iu of the Toujeo daily because I got it for free. Novolog at 10-12iu before some workouts.
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Unfortunately none. :D I'm not taking a lot of insulin, just 12iu of the Toujeo daily because I got it for free. Novolog at 10-12iu before some workouts.
I assume then that you are having an intra-workout drink when you take the Log right before training. What is contained in that to make sure you are covered?
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I assume then that you are having an intra-workout drink when you take the Log right before training. What is contained in that to make sure you are covered?
I just use maltodextrin with something like Crystal Light or just a nice flavored amino like Xtend or an EAA blend. Dextrose works too, Milos still thinks it's not worth it to use anything else because it works well and is dirt cheap. But I find it sickeningly sweet, malto is bland. I sometimes use Vitargo for carbs because I like the texture and mouth feel of it but it's expensive.
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I just use maltodextrin with something like Crystal Light or just a nice flavored amino like Xtend or an EAA blend. Dextrose works too, Milos still thinks it's not worth it to use anything else because it works well and is dirt cheap. But I find it sickeningly sweet, malto is bland. I sometimes use Vitargo for carbs because I like the texture and mouth feel of it but it's expensive.
Dextrose and Glucose are basically the some thing and what all carbs are eventually broken down to . So it would seem to make sense to give the body something that it naturally uses anyway. The rage seems to be Cluster Dextrose. I'm not sure why this is better. I've read that it passes through the stomach much faster BUT also provides a sustained release of energy so you don't get that spike in blood sugar. It seems contradictory, but assuming these claims are true, how much of a difference does it really make to justify 10x the cost? How much faster does it pass the stomach than dextrose and does it matter. I use to work with a guy who was type 2 and every now and then he'd go hypo. He'd have to sit down and would start sweating like crazy but then he would pop a few Glucose tabs and within minutes he'd be fine. Seems to work pretty fast and it always surprised me that it didn't take much. I mean, those tabs are like what? Four grams of sugar? He'd take maybe about 4 or so. Sixteen grams doesn't seem like much to elevate your blood sugar levels from, I assume, is at less than 60 mg/dl or so?
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Dextrose and Glucose are basically the some thing and what all carbs are eventually broken down to . So it would seem to make sense to give the body something that it naturally uses anyway. The rage seems to be Cluster Dextrose. I'm not sure why this is better. I've read that it passes through the stomach much faster BUT also provides a sustained release of energy so you don't get that spike in blood sugar. It seems contradictory, but assuming these claims are true, how much of a difference does it really make to justify 10x the cost? How much faster does it pass the stomach than dextrose and does it matter. I use to work with a guy who was type 2 and every now and then he'd go hypo. He'd have to sit down and would start sweating like crazy but then he would pop a few Glucose tabs and within minutes he'd be fine. Seems to work pretty fast and it always surprised me that it didn't take much. I mean, those tabs are like what? Four grams of sugar? He'd take maybe about 4 or so. Sixteen grams doesn't seem like much to elevate your blood sugar levels from, I assume, is at less than 60 mg/dl or so?
I know a guy who carries Jelly Babies (sweets)around if he has an attack 4 jelly babies sorts him out, each one has 4 gms sugar, so the 16 gms must have some merit
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Dextrose and Glucose are basically the some thing and what all carbs are eventually broken down to . So it would seem to make sense to give the body something that it naturally uses anyway. The rage seems to be Cluster Dextrose. I'm not sure why this is better. I've read that it passes through the stomach much faster BUT also provides a sustained release of energy so you don't get that spike in blood sugar. It seems contradictory, but assuming these claims are true, how much of a difference does it really make to justify 10x the cost? How much faster does it pass the stomach than dextrose and does it matter. I use to work with a guy who was type 2 and every now and then he'd go hypo. He'd have to sit down and would start sweating like crazy but then he would pop a few Glucose tabs and within minutes he'd be fine. Seems to work pretty fast and it always surprised me that it didn't take much. I mean, those tabs are like what? Four grams of sugar? He'd take maybe about 4 or so. Sixteen grams doesn't seem like much to elevate your blood sugar levels from, I assume, is at less than 60 mg/dl or so?
Glucose and dextrose are different names for the aame thing yes.
A few weeks back I was at the doctors office, had taken Latus 4 hours previously and not eaten. Suddenly I went hypo and had to tell a nurse. I wasn't in any danger but was sweating like crazy. They scrambled and got me glucosee tabs and even a sandwich. In 5 minutes I was fine.
This is a reception area in a gym in Hungary. Glucose tabs for the bodybuilders.
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(https://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=674552.0;attach=1326658;image)
glucose mixed with piss and shit
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I recently told the story of a bb by the name Mike "Wheels." He blamed his cardiomyoparhy on Milos' prescribed 30-50iu of slin. What he forgot to say is that he was on like 3 grams of baseline test with a dozen other compounds on top. Milos told him to slash his total steroid load to like a gram a week but increase his insulin slightly. And the insulin damaged his heart Lol.
The other thing that Mike omitted when he blames Milos for his heart issues, is that on Leo's podcast he talks about getting into drugs when he was 11 or 12 years old, and by grade 9 (14 years old) he was doing cocaine. I'm not a doctor, but I think you are more likely to develop heart issues from cocaine than from insulin.
He talks about it here at around the 3:00 minute mark:
=180