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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Darren Avey on July 24, 2023, 04:01:45 AM
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Bjj is a great martial art, don't get me wrong, but the fan boys are embarrassing.
"A teenage blue belt beats up Mike Tyson blah blah blah." ::)
Go take down Brian Shawn and see what happens.
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Is that the Hammer?
His brain is not in good shape.
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Is that the Hammer?
His brain is not in good shape.
Yes!
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Bjj is a great martial art, don't get me wrong, but the fan boys are embarrassing.
"A teenage blue belt beats up Mike Tyson blah blah blah." ::)
Go take down Brian Shawn and see what happens.
BJJ is great, but you should train in some form of striking discipline (Boxing, Muay Thai, Kickboxing etc.). You can be amazing at BJJ, but if you ever get into a fight with someone that has great takedown defense and that also happens to be a decent striker, it would very likely be lights out. Being well-rounded is key in my humble opinion.
All that said, with most people carrying weapons of some sort, the idea of martial arts is becoming less attractive. Today, when I walk around my city, I see tons of young, wannabe rappers carrying guns and knives and it makes me realize that these are no streets for old men.
"1"
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Darren, what do you think of this?:
^ The longer versions of Brian Shaw and Dustin Poirier grappling are on YouTube.
I have some comments on it, but I'd like to hear your views first, Darren
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Matt,
Could you expound on the origin of the name "jiu jitsu"?
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Even Karate back in the day was a bit of a joke. Most spent time doing Kata's, and zero fighting.
It hit home when I was like 15 (I was a brown belt myself and enjoyed taking it for many years after boxing at the YMCA since a little kid).
Chuck Norris movies made Karate popularity take off around here in the early 80's.
Anyways, at the beach on a FRI night, dude wants to fight my friend Jim who was like 4 yrs older than us.
The dude goes into all sorts of hilarious Karate stances and prepping, etc.
Jim punches him square in the nose, knocked the poor bastard out cold, very bloody broken nose. (Guys was supposedly a black belt).
I thought it was hilarious and never went back to Karate after that. ::)
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Matt,
Could you expound on the origin of the name "jiu jitsu"?
Not without looking it up.
My combat training has all been in wrestling. Although I'd be very confident going up against anyone up to maybe a purple belt in Jiu-jitsu, unless he significantly outsized me, or was much stronger.
Or if I saw that his ears were completely messed up, lol.
Why do you ask, IroNat?
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Any self-defense method that requires physical strength, youth, constant lengthy practice, high levels of aerobic fitness, is inefficient for general use.
For self-defense you want something that ends an altercation quickly, requires a minimum of skill, a minimum of practice, a minimum of strength.
Something a woman could do against a much stronger man for example.
Attacking vital points of the body that result in immediate incapacity of the assailant.
This is not to say practice intensive methods are not effective. They can be.
Wrestling is a very effective defense skill but if you're 70 it is not practical to spend hours on the mat. Too hard on the body. As a result your skill erodes. BJJ is hard on the body too I would think. Judo also.
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Not without looking it up.
My combat training has all been in wrestling. Although I'd be very confident going up against anyone up to maybe a purple belt in Jiu-jitsu, unless he significantly outsized me, or was much stronger.
Or if I saw that his ears were completely messed up, lol.
Why do you ask, IroNat?
Just wondered if the Jewish people had anything to do with it.
(Busting your balls. ;))
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Even Karate back in the day was a bit of a joke. Most spent time doing Kata's, and zero fighting.
It hit home when I was like 15 (I was a brown belt myself and enjoyed taking it for many years after boxing at the YMCA since a little kid).
Chuck Norris movies made Karate popularity take off around here in the early 80's.
Anyways, at the beach on a FRI night, dude wants to fight my friend Jim who was like 4 yrs older than us.
The dude goes into all sorts of hilarious Karate stances and prepping, etc.
Jim punches him square in the nose, knocked the poor bastard out cold, very bloody broken nose. (Guys was supposedly a black belt).
I thought it was hilarious and never went back to Karate after that. ::)
I took karate for awhile too.
Half the class was spent doing katas. Then the gloves would come out we'd hit the mitts and bags like kickboxers.
I asked the sensei what good are the katas in a fight?
He says, "I can teach you self-defense in 5 minutes by poking somebody's eyes out. Then what would we do after that?"
Then he went into the spiritual aspect of karate, etc.
Dude was honest about it. Basically he had to make a living.
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take someone down in a street fight and his mates will use you as a football.
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Not without looking it up.
My combat training has all been in wrestling. Although I'd be very confident going up against anyone up to maybe a purple belt in Jiu-jitsu, unless he significantly outsized me, or was much stronger.
Or if I saw that his ears were completely messed up, lol.
Why do you ask, IroNat?
matt
how would you do against Hankins?
He had 15,000 school fights undefeated and would have gone to the olympics but it was on a Sunday or something
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Any self-defense method that requires physical strength, youth, constant lengthy practice, high levels of aerobic fitness, is inefficient for general use.
For self-defense you want something that ends an altercation quickly, requires a minimum of skill, a minimum of practice, a minimum of strength.
Yup...
(https://us.glock.com/-/media/Global/US/old/US-Products/G23_Gen3-107.ashx)
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Any self-defense method that requires physical strength, youth, constant lengthy practice, and high levels of aerobic fitness, is inefficient for general use.
The single most salient point in this thread.
To add, despite the trend naysayers, being robustly built, very strong and physically able, and with an aggressive-capable mind, will always place an individual at the top of the general “food chain”.
Real fighting is very far from sport fighting.
The latter’s specificity of skillset and intent can equally work against him in the former.
It’s why being just a big, strong and aggressive SOB will never be bested.
As far as BJJ, it’s a hugely impressive skill, and in its domain, extensively intimidating for those not well versed.
“Go roll with a relative novice and you’ll be humbled.”
Yeah, no shit.
Doesn’t mean squat, though, in the bigger arena of realistic self defence.
A large, powerful and relentlessly aggressive man is a force with which to be reckoned.
Period.
Added: If I were to find myself in a physical confrontation with Gordon Ryan, his sheer physicality would give me more pause and focus than would his BJJ skill.
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Agree. Sport jiu jitsu is not a street fight.
I have been training jiu jitsu on average 3 days a week for the past 7 years, and one of the most important things it has taught me is to avoid conflict if possible.
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Any self-defense method that requires physical strength, youth, constant lengthy practice, high levels of aerobic fitness, is inefficient for general use.
For self-defense you want something that ends an altercation quickly, requires a minimum of skill, a minimum of practice, a minimum of strength.
Something a woman could do against a much stronger man for example.
Attacking vital points of the body that result in immediate incapacity of the assailant.
This is not to say practice intensive methods are not effective. They can be.
Wrestling is a very effective defense skill but if you're 70 it is not practical to spend hours on the mat. Too hard on the body. As a result your skill erodes. BJJ is hard on the body too I would think. Judo also.
(https://giffiles.alphacoders.com/234/23465.gif)
;D
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I thought wrestling was just a gay code for anal sniffing used amongst the sexually abused in hicksville USA?
Bottom line if you can strike quickly and with relative accuracy and power you stand decent chance if you don'[t freeze of doing ok
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Agree. Sport jiu jitsu is not a street fight.
I have been training jiu jitsu on average 3 days a week for the past 7 years, and one of the most important things it has taught me is to avoid conflict if possible.
I did jj before covid and My instructor always told newbies
"Don't ever assume you can just go beat up an 18 stone (260lb) rugby prop just because you know this stuff"
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Darren, what do you think of this?:
^ The longer versions of Brian Shaw and Dustin Poirier grappling are on YouTube.
I have some comments on it, but I'd like to hear your views first, Darren
the fight was far from over when Dustin got in a potential RNC on Brian
If Brain ah jumped up and landed on his back he would have crushed Dustin
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Most jiu jitsu schools severely neglect take downs. They cover it as if the fighter will always fall to the ground. To be a well rounded fighter you need stand up and ground game. If you are going to choose just one then ground game has the higher percentage of use.
Conor was a great fighter despite having a terrible ground game. He knew how to stay on his feet and how to get up once taken down. Royce was exposed when he it was learned he had zero stand up. He couldn't throw a punch or a real kick.
UFC legend Masvidal had so many street fights prior to going to MMA. He said in the street his go to was quick strikes then sprinting 50 yards to get out of the situation.
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(https://giffiles.alphacoders.com/234/23465.gif)
;D
(https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExNXVzNWtzMnNpN2xwdmNkZ2V6bmlkNjc4M2FhbmxqZ2llNmppNzc5eSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/l52CGyJ4LZPa0/giphy.gif)
;)
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Most jiu jitsu schools severely neglect take downs. They cover it as if the fighter will always fall to the ground. To be a well rounded fighter you need stand up and ground game. If you are going to choose just one then ground game has the higher percentage of use.
Conor was a great fighter despite having a terrible ground game. He knew how to stay on his feet and how to get up once taken down. Royce was exposed when he it was learned he had zero stand up. He couldn't throw a punch or a real kick.
UFC legend Masvidal had so many street fights prior to going to MMA. He said in the street his go to was quick strikes then sprinting 50 yards to get out of the situation.
Probably the best strategy for un-armed self-defense.
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Probably the best strategy for un-armed self-defense.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExNXVzNWtzMnNpN2xwdmNkZ2V6bmlkNjc4M2FhbmxqZ2llNmppNzc5eSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/l52CGyJ4LZPa0/giphy.gif)
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Any self-defense method that requires physical strength, youth, constant lengthy practice, high levels of aerobic fitness, is inefficient for general use.
For self-defense you want something that ends an altercation quickly, requires a minimum of skill, a minimum of practice, a minimum of strength.
Something a woman could do against a much stronger man for example.
Attacking vital points of the body that result in immediate incapacity of the assailant.
This is not to say practice intensive methods are not effective. They can be.
Wrestling is a very effective defense skill but if you're 70 it is not practical to spend hours on the mat. Too hard on the body. As a result your skill erodes. BJJ is hard on the body too I would think. Judo also.
Met many guys that thought they could win against skilled opponents by ball grabs, bites and eye gouges. Part of the arsenal but if you're going to go medieval it will release the dog in a skilled fighter. A real eye opener for guys that have never really fought anyone is to go to a jui jitsu school for a day or get in the ring in boxing. It will really hurt the ego as you're easily beaten almost effortlessly. Seen it happen time and time again. One stood out in my memory. When I was in jui jitsu a 260lbs guy came in for his first lesson. Grappling with a 140lbs guy he was very quickly tapping time and time again. I saw it in his face. He was humiliated. Never saw him again. It was his first and last day.
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Yes, tapped on the jiu jitsu mat.
Now if it was in a bar, the 260lb guy full of rage, it could be very different.
Obviously someone trained in bjj will beat someone NOT trained at bjj.
Like a tennis player beats someone likevme , at tennis, who's never picked up.a tennis bat.
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Met many guys that thought they could win against skilled opponents by ball grabs, bites and eye gouges. Part of the arsenal but if you're going to go medieval it will release the dog in a skilled fighter. A real eye opener for guys that have never really fought anyone is to go to a jui jitsu school for a day or get in the ring in boxing. It will really hurt the ego as you're easily beaten almost effortlessly. Seen it happen time and time again. One stood out in my memory. When I was in jui jitsu a 260lbs guy came in for his first lesson. Grappling with a 140lbs guy he was very quickly tapping time and time again. I saw it in his face. He was humiliated. Never saw him again. It was his first and last day.
Anybody not skilled in a particular art who goes to a "school" for the first time and abides by the "rules" will be beaten by a skilled practitioner of that school.
Doesn't matter if it's bjj, karate, boxing, whatever.
The reason is you are bound by the "rules" of that art while in the school.
I took Kyokushin karate. There is no hand strikes allowed to the head.
What "rules" are set down in a local bjj school?
Have you ever been poked in the eyes or kicked in the balls?
You are incapacitated.
To say by doing this you will then be subject to the same is irrelevant if you get in the first accurate strike.
Are you going to not use an eye strike and let a skilled bjj fighter beat you up in a real fight because you are afraid he might also poke your eye?
Are you not going to bite his finger off or fish hook his face because he might then do the same?
Is this the Marquis of Queensbury street fighting rules?
Go to your son-in-law's bjj school and go on the mat with him. Don't tell him you are going to put his eye out.
Drive your finger into his eye socket right away unexpectedly. See what happens.
He will be incapacitated. He will be in shock with his eyeball wrecked.
Then you can run away or break his knee and bring him down and start kicking him in the head.
Do you think he will run after you with his eye hanging out?
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Biting off noses gets the message across.
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExNXVzNWtzMnNpN2xwdmNkZ2V6bmlkNjc4M2FhbmxqZ2llNmppNzc5eSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/l52CGyJ4LZPa0/giphy.gif)
;)
LOL ;D
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The single most salient point in this thread.
To add, despite the trend naysayers, being robustly built, very strong and physically able, and with an aggressive-capable mind, will always place an individual at the top of the general “food chain”.
Real fighting is very far from sport fighting.
The latter’s specificity of skillset and intent can equally work against him in the former.
It’s why being just a big, strong and aggressive SOB will never be bested.
As far as BJJ, it’s a hugely impressive skill, and in its domain, extensively intimidating for those not well versed.
“Go roll with a relative novice and you’ll be humbled.”
Yeah, no shit.
Doesn’t mean squat, though, in the bigger arena of realistic self defence.
A large, powerful and relentlessly aggressive man is a force with which to be reckoned.
Period.
Added: If I were to find myself in a physical confrontation with Gordon Ryan, his sheer physicality would give me more pause and focus than would his BJJ skill.
I agree with you on this.
Having muscle is akin to being a scarecrow, IMO.
You're about 275-lb at 5'11", right Fortress?
At 195-lb and 5'9", in a tank top in the summer...people leave me alone.
In the winter, no one would have a clue that I work out...but I know that in the summer, people keep their distance from me better.
So I can only imagine that quality amplifying at your size. I know a guy your size who worked security at the hospital. Nobody messed with him.
I'm glad because...I am 41 now. While I do feel that I can handle myself if need be, the reality is, our ability to recover from injury decreases with age. Older bodies just recover more slowly. That goes for all of us.
So I'm happy people still keep their distance from me, for now.
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Anybody not skilled in a particular art who goes to a "school" for the first time and abides by the "rules" will be beaten by a skilled practitioner of that school.
Doesn't matter if it's bjj, karate, boxing, whatever.
The reason is you are bound by the "rules" of that art while in the school.
I took Kyokushin karate. There is no hand strikes allowed to the head.
What "rules" are set down in a local bjj school?
Have you ever been poked in the eyes or kicked in the balls?
You are incapacitated.
To say by doing this you will then be subject to the same is irrelevant if you get in the first accurate strike.
Are you going to not use an eye strike and let a skilled bjj fighter beat you up in a real fight because you are afraid he might also poke your eye?
Are you not going to bite his finger off or fish hook his face because he might then do the same?
Is this the Marquis of Queensbury street fighting rules?
Go to your son-in-law's bjj school and go on the mat with him. Don't tell him you are going to put his eye out.
Drive your finger into his eye socket right away unexpectedly. See what happens.
He will be incapacitated. He will be in shock with his eyeball wrecked.
Then you can run away or break his knee and bring him down and start kicking him in the head.
Do you think he will run after you with his eye hanging out?
While you're not wrong, I would just like to point out that trained fighters know all of those dirty moves as well.
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BJJ is great, but you should train in some form of striking discipline (Boxing, Muay Thai, Kickboxing etc.). You can be amazing at BJJ, but if you ever get into a fight with someone that has great takedown defense and that also happens to be a decent striker, it would very likely be lights out. Being well-rounded is key in my humble opinion.
All that said, with most people carrying weapons of some sort, the idea of martial arts is becoming less attractive. Today, when I walk around my city, I see tons of young, wannabe rappers carrying guns and knives and it makes me realize that these are no streets for old men.
"1"
Escrima/kali basically the philippino systems which are heavily weapons oriented & empty hand with philippino boxing in there too.
Boxing is Boxing regardless but some neat stuff in there.
Their knife work in some styles is amazing also the defence.
Will it save you? Maybe but it's much more realistic than some of the other traditional systems.
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Any self-defense method that requires physical strength, youth, constant lengthy practice, high levels of aerobic fitness, is inefficient for general use.
For self-defense you want something that ends an altercation quickly, requires a minimum of skill, a minimum of practice, a minimum of strength.
Something a woman could do against a much stronger man for example.
Attacking vital points of the body that result in immediate incapacity of the assailant.
This is not to say practice intensive methods are not effective. They can be.
Wrestling is a very effective defense skill but if you're 70 it is not practical to spend hours on the mat. Too hard on the body. As a result your skill erodes. BJJ is hard on the body too I would think. Judo also.
Very true. Take all of the banned moves in MMA and you have a very effective martial art.
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OT has described his son-in-law as 6'4" 300 lbs and highly skilled in bjj and strength based techniques (kicking for example).
It would be foolhardy to try to use grappling or strength based defense techniques against someone like him.
You would be going against his strengths and unless you were also highly skilled at grappling and equal in size and strength or superior physically than him you would have zero chance.
How then could you defeat such an individual in an unarmed fight?
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Very true. Take all of the banned moves in MMA and you have a very effective martial art.
Getting accidentally kicked in the groin has stopped a few MMA bouts. It is not allowed by rules.
John Jones has used the somewhat questionable side kick to the kneecap to end some fights. Some want this technique banned.
Also banned in MMA:
Eye gouging
Fish hooking
Hair pulling
Finger breaking
Groin strikes
Headbutting
Biting
Rabbit punching
12-6 elbows
Piledriving
Kicks, knees, stomps to grounded opponent
Throat strikes of any kind
Clawing, pinching, or twisting the flesh
Grabbing the clavicle
Kicking to the kidney with the heel
Practice all the above or just a few of the real nasty ones and you'll probably survive a street fight. ;)
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Getting accidentally kicked in the groin has stopped a few MMA bouts. It is not allowed by rules.
John Jones has used the somewhat questionable side kick to the kneecap to end some fights. Some want this technique banned.
Also banned in MMA:
Eye gouging
Fish hooking
Hair pulling
Finger breaking
Groin strikes
Headbutting
Biting
Rabbit punching
12-6 elbows
Piledriving
Kicks, knees, stomps to grounded opponent
Throat strikes of any kind
Clawing, pinching, or twisting the flesh
Grabbing the clavicle
Kicking to the kidney with the heel
Practice all the above or just a few of the real nasty ones and you'll probably survive a street fight. ;)
Rabbits cant punch
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all Joe swift´s opponents tap out due to his anal poke :D
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OT has described his son-in-law as 6'4" 300 lbs and highly skilled in bjj and strength based techniques (kicking for example).
It would be foolhardy to try to use grappling or strength based defense techniques against someone like him.
You would be going against his strengths and unless you were also highly skilled at grappling and equal in size and strength or superior physically than him you would have zero chance.
How then could you defeat such an individual in an unarmed fight?
You'd have to hope to land a hard hook to the temple
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Rabbits cant punch
(https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExd3BieGJjZmcycTJnZnhhcmcyNnBubXhsbG5jczNlYnU4Z29xNWtraCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/dYLWFqSfCKWB5C8MEw/giphy.gif)
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UFC is the best martial art. You're ready for all aspects of a fight.
Never mess with a guy in a tapout shirt.
Seriously though, if an average to large guy did wrestling alone for a few years+ (cauliflower ear level hours), even though it's a grappling art, that guy would be deadly on the street. He's got explosive strength which'll transfer to his strikes and the moment he gets his hands on you, you're getting dumped head first to the ground.
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExd3BieGJjZmcycTJnZnhhcmcyNnBubXhsbG5jczNlYnU4Z29xNWtraCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/dYLWFqSfCKWB5C8MEw/giphy.gif)
:o
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I agree with you on this.
Having muscle is akin to being a scarecrow, IMO.
You're about 275-lb at 5'11", right Fortress?
Six feet, 280.
And extraordinarily ugly.
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UFC is the best martial art. You're ready for all aspects of a fight.
Never mess with a guy in a tapout shirt.
Seriously though, if an average to large guy did wrestling alone for a few years+ (cauliflower ear level hours), even though it's a grappling art, that guy would be deadly on the street. He's got explosive strength which'll transfer to his strikes and the moment he gets his hands on you, you're getting dumped head first to the ground.
impressive
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Six feet, 280.
And extraordinarily ugly.
Beautiful.
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Getting accidentally kicked in the groin has stopped a few MMA bouts. It is not allowed by rules.
John Jones has used the somewhat questionable side kick to the kneecap to end some fights. Some want this technique banned.
Also banned in MMA:
Eye gouging
Fish hooking
Hair pulling
Finger breaking
Groin strikes
Headbutting
Biting
Rabbit punching
12-6 elbows
Piledriving
Kicks, knees, stomps to grounded opponent
Throat strikes of any kind
Clawing, pinching, or twisting the flesh
Grabbing the clavicle
Kicking to the kidney with the heel
Practice all the above or just a few of the real nasty ones and you'll probably survive a street fight. ;)
Because these moves are illegal in MMA no one even trains to defend against them. All their grappling moves expose them so many of those techniques. Just be sure you finish the fight quickly and get out of there because they are going to be really pissed.
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Because these moves are illegal in MMA no one even trains to defend against them. All their grappling moves expose them so many of those techniques. Just be sure you finish the fight quickly and get out of there because they are going to be really pissed.
Agreed.
The odds of being assaulted by a MMA fighter or a proficient belt ranked BJJ student are practically zero.
Most likely would be a street thug with limited skills who has a weapon or maybe a road rager on the street.
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Six feet, 280.
And extraordinarily ugly.
LOL!!!! ;D
Don't be so self-deprecating - age will get us all in the end, and you and I aren't in our twenties anymore, Fort! :)
As I said, I knew a guy around your size [to be exact, he was around 260-265 at 5'10.5", and could bench 385-lb for 8-12 good reps], and nobody messed with him. Although he could hold his own if need be.
His/your size is a massive deterrent.
JF Caron said in an interview that people don't pick fights with him because of size. Meanwhile, 160-lb boxers who can hold their own get called out for being small.
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LOL!!!! ;D
Don't be so self-deprecating - age will get us all in the end, and you and I aren't in our twenties anymore, Fort! :)
As I said, I knew a guy around your size [to be exact, he was around 260-265 at 5'10.5", and could bench 385-lb for 8-12 good reps], and nobody messed with him. Although he could hold his own if need be.
His/your size is a massive deterrent.
JF Caron said in an interview that people don't pick fights with him because of size. Meanwhile, 160-lb boxers who can hold their own get called out for being small.
Wow, I saw some nut incline the 60kg dumbells for 17 reps last night.
He's about 230.
Got an aura about him that you d best not try anything
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Wow, I saw some nut incline the 60kg dumbells for 17 reps last night.
He's about 230.
Got an aura about him that you d best not try anything
I understand that feeling.
Just a strong, powerful fella. He showed it in that lift, and probably looked it too. Rocket on here said he used to do 60-kg dumbbells for reps [around 130-lb or 135-lb dumbbells].
Although I don't think rocket claimed 17 reps. Strong nevertheless.
I can understand why you got that impression, Darren.
Although reading some of the posts on here, it's as if some Getbiggers have not rolled with a legit sub-150-lb Purple Belt or higher.
High level jiu-jitsu specialists, even if they are 5'7" and 145-lb manlets, are very capable.