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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Grundle on May 01, 2006, 04:17:26 PM
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Cancelling the Toronto Pro, dwindling prize money, defections to the PDI, whats going on?
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Cancelling the Toronto Pro, dwindling prize money, defections to the PDI, whats going on?
This has more to do with promotors.
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how are the defections running? who has jumped ship?
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The IFBB didn't cancel the Toronto...the promoter did.
The Prize money for the Olympia, and overall... is the highest it's ever been.
What defections? 2 guys? And none if you consider there hasent been a show for them to compete in.
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What defections? 2 guys? And none if you consider there hasent been a show for them to compete in.
Bob, you're in denial. It's getting windy in here. And the house of cards known as the IFBB seems to be shaking...
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Bob, you're in denial. It's getting windy in here. And the house of cards known as the IFBB seems to be shaking...
Let me complete this sentence for you 'And the house of cards known as the IFBB seems to be shaking .. in 240s delusional mind' ::)
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There's only one promoter in Toronto Bob? Seems to me that the IFBB should step in and front the money if for no other reason than to save face.
And maybe they will start testing for steroids and bb will become an olympic sport ::)
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Bob, you're in denial. It's getting windy in here. And the house of cards known as the IFBB seems to be shaking...
Hahahahaha..... ::)
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There's only one promoter in Toronto Bob? Seems to me that the IFBB should step in and front the money if for no other reason than to save face.
The Toronto has been on shakey ground for a few years now, this doesn't surprise me.
There just isnt a big fan base in the Toronto area to support a Pro show...
The numbers for the Niagara pro show before the Toronto, were poor as well....
Why would the IFBB "front" the money? there is clearly not enough interest to continue to keep running a pro show there...I'm sure Winston Roberts (promoter) gave it his all.
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Why would the IFBB "front" the money? there is clearly not enough interest to continue to keep running a pro show there...I'm sure Winston Roberts (promoter) gave it his all.
Bob, did the IFBB already collect the sanction fee from the promoter for the Toronto Pro?
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I'm sure it has. I'm not sure if the money goes back to the promoter, or if it stays with the IFBB.
If I were to guess...I would say it gets returned to Winston, as I'm sure he's out thousands with non-refundable deposits on the venue, advertising, etc.
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Knowing the IFBB they'll pocket the money and say too bad, their sanctioning fees are ridiculous.
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Bob, seriously man... If there were contracts in place, the athletes could at the very least take WInston to court and get a chunk of those fees back BEFORE the sponsors do. It's a personal loss vs. a corporate loss. That's awful that a supp company gets their dollars back before a guy gets plane ticket $ back, from his own pocket.
You see the difference between corporate and personal losses, right?
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I really don't think its a good idea for Bob and others in the "industry" to be badmouthing the PDI as it is clear that IFBB isnt exactly on stable ground. It seems to me that it won't take much for an upstart organization to surpass its predecessor in this case.
Is the PDI supposed to create demand? ::)
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By bringing bodybuilding back in a direction that has more mass appeal, YES!
Which bodybuilders are supposed to do that? ::)
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I really don't think its a good idea for Bob and others in the "industry" to be badmouthing the PDI as it is clear that IFBB isnt exactly on stable ground. It seems to me that it won't take much for an upstart organization to surpass its predecessor in this case.
All I know is, if I had to put money on whether the PDI or IFBB will cancel more shows this year, I'd have to guess it'll be the IFBB leaving more athletes stranded with no show and stuck with plane tickets and prep costs.
Wayne buys their tickets and pays their hotel costs. IFBB cannot even keep a show alive for them to buy their own way too.
yet, company men still keep rolling their eyes at the Pdi. Sheep.
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The demand for BBing shows is already there. IFBB is not meeting it. Shows are needed in Europe. Shows with unpredictable results are wanted by the fans. Shows without guts are wanted by the fans.
That is the demand the PDI will meet. It's already there, and currently unfulfilled.
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Bob, seriously man... If there were contracts in place, the athletes could at the very least take WInston to court and get a chunk of those fees back BEFORE the sponsors do. It's a personal loss vs. a corporate loss. That's awful that a supp company gets their dollars back before a guy gets plane ticket $ back, from his own pocket.
You see the difference between corporate and personal losses, right?
What about the number of athletes who cancel after promotional materials have their name and faces on it, after agreeing to compete? Should they be held to the same standards?
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The demand for BBing shows is already there. IFBB is not meeting it. Shows are needed in Europe. Shows with unpredictable results are wanted by the fans. Shows without guts are wanted by the fans.
That is the demand the PDI will meet. It's already there, and currently unfulfilled.
Why should the results be unpredictable if one bodybuilder clearly deserves to win and other clearly deserve their spots? I don't think hardcore fans are turned off by guts and only most casual fans won't pay 50 bucks to see a show.
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There's only one promoter in Toronto Bob? Seems to me that the IFBB should step in and front the money if for no other reason than to save face.
Oh my! That would never happen. The IFBB does not help face of any promoter or athlete. And you would think they would have someone in the wings to take over if something like this happens. I'm starting to hear the fat lady getting ready to sing. No it's not me.
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What about the number of athletes who cancel after promotional materials have their name and faces on it, after agreeing to compete? Should they be held to the same standards?
Which is exactly why there NEEDS to be contracts for BOTH sides.
If an athlete cancels, he is held accountable and money will be withheld from his next prize monies, with capped interest.
if a promoter cancels, he has to divide X amount among every contracted athlete. This will prevent guys from undertaking shows they cannot finish.
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AMI is going bust and there goes the IFBB as well
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What about the number of athletes who cancel after promotional materials have their name and faces on it, after agreeing to compete? Should they be held to the same standards?
Totally different. First, did those athletes give you written permission to put them on the poster. Second, in the contract you have with the athletes was their a penalty clasue for withdrawing. Oh I forgot you had no contracts. Sorry you don't have a leg to stand on in this one.
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Why should the results be unpredictable if one bodybuilder clearly deserves to win and other clearly deserve their spots? I don't think hardcore fans are turned off by guts and only most casual fans won't pay 50 bucks to see a show.
IF the shows were exciting, some unpredictability, like if the top guy is off, he will lose the show, it would be worth the money. If a guy who is obviously is 1st or 2nd but only gets 8th, then it's not worth the fee they charge. maybe a bad example, but,,,if your local pro team stinks, but they try hard and the games are exciting, the fees they charge, which are ridiculous, aren't that hard to justify to yourself. BECAUSE,,,the time spent there is fun, the underdog could win if the opponent is off, and the judges (refs) aren't so friggin biased. If the top dog in a BB contest is spot on show after show, he should win it everytime. If he's off for one show and the number 2 guy is better, he should lose, not win based on name alone. When the judges have ultimate control, there is always that chance of a corrupt scoring system. Too much sponsorship money at stake.
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IF the shows were exciting, some unpredictability, like if the top guy is off, he will lose the show, it would be worth the money. If a guy who is obviously is 1st or 2nd but only gets 8th, then it's not worth the fee they charge. maybe a bad example, but,,,if your local pro team stinks, but they try hard and the games are exciting, the fees they charge, which are ridiculous, aren't that hard to justify to yourself. BECAUSE,,,the time spent there is fun, the underdog could win if the opponent is off, and the judges (refs) aren't so friggin biased. If the top dog in a BB contest is spot on show after show, he should win it everytime. If he's off for one show and the number 2 guy is better, he should lose, not win based on name alone. When the judges have ultimate control, there is always that chance of a corrupt scoring system. Too much sponsorship money at stake.
Great points!
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The IFBB is not going broke. I do think however that their time as the only game in town will eventualy end. As for them helping any promoter or event , hear this. Ben Weider is and always has been a greedy self serving dictator in the mold of his hero Napoleon. He will do nothing to help anyone if it will not benefit him financially. With all of his talk about his love of bodybuilding, he's basically full of shit. Let's see how long this post stays up.
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The IFBB is not going broke. I do think however that their time as the only game in town will eventualy end. As for them helping any promoter or event , hear this. Ben Weider is and always has been a greedy self serving dictator in the mold of his hero Napoleon. He will do nothing to help anyone if it will not benefit him financially. With all of his talk about his love of bodybuilding, he's basically full of shit. Let's see how long this post stays up.
EXACTLY!. He actually won some award dedicated to Napolean. The IFBB are the cheapest group of assholes around. They do not even pay US taxes. They are not a non-profit they are a tax-exempt company. SO what they make here they funnel to Canada. Now the Toronto Pro goes belly up and they do nothing about it. That shold tell people how they are
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EXACTLY!. He actually won some award dedicated to Napolean. The IFBB are the cheapest group of assholes around. They do not even pay US taxes. They are not a non-profit they are a tax-exempt company. SO what they make here they funnel to Canada. Now the Toronto Pro goes belly up and they do nothing about it. That shold tell people how they are
Sounds like jealousy ;D I will make you an award, onlyme ;D
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EXACTLY!. He actually won some award dedicated to Napolean. The IFBB are the cheapest group of assholes around. They do not even pay US taxes. They are not a non-profit they are a tax-exempt company. SO what they make here they funnel to Canada. Now the Toronto Pro goes belly up and they do nothing about it. That shold tell people how they are
stop lying onlyme you hater :)
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BIG ANNOUNCEMENT:
IFBB IS BANKRUPT!!!!!!!!!!!
Morally bankrupt that is....
For an organization with a moral backbone like a jellyfish, they sure have survived long.
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stop lying onlyme you hater :)
I'm not lying. Try to find their tax returns. Try to find where they are paying taxes for the money they bring in from santion fees and sorts. You won't. Quit denying the facts.
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I'm not lying. Try to find their tax returns. Try to find where they are paying taxes for the money they bring in from santion fees and sorts. You won't. Quit denying the facts.
let some other detective do that one, i got too many cases as it is
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let some other detective do that one, i got too many cases as it is
Yea I know so do I
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There's one easy, simple solution to this problem: make EVERY bodybuilder (including Mr. Olympia winner) have to requalify for the Mr. O EVERY year. There's not much interest in the Toronto Pro right now, but don't you think it would increase if Cutler, Ronnie and other top BB's had to compete there to qualify for this year's Mr. O? If you can get the top BB's to compete in "regular" competitions, they'll sell much better.
I wouldn't pay to travel to toronto to see Darrem Charles face down Jaroslav Horvath and Art Atwood, but I would go to see Ronnie face off against Jay Cutler, Dexter Jackson, Dennis James and Chris Cormier. Granted, not all of them will compete in each contest, but pretty much every contest would have a few top competitors. Think how much more exciting the BB season would be!
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There's one easy, simple solution to this problem: make EVERY bodybuilder (including Mr. Olympia winner) have to requalify for the Mr. O EVERY year. There's not much interest in the Toronto Pro right now, but don't you think it would increase if Cutler, Ronnie and other top BB's had to compete there to qualify for this year's Mr. O? If you can get the top BB's to compete in "regular" competitions, they'll sell much better.
I wouldn't pay to travel to toronto to see Darrem Charles face down Jaroslav Horvath and Art Atwood, but I would go to see Ronnie face off against Jay Cutler, Dexter Jackson, Dennis James and Chris Cormier. Granted, not all of them will compete in each contest, but pretty much every contest would have a few top competitors. Think how much more exciting the BB season would be!
This sounds very intriguing...
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This sounds very intriguing...
But will it ever happen? I doubt it.
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AMI is going bust and there goes the IFBB as well
Ahhhhhhh... Now we get to the bottom of things. According to "Wall Street" AMI is in deep financial trouble. That's a fact, Jack. Without AMI, there is no Olympia. I understand the Mr. Pecker has even been forced to give up his jet, you see, he commutes from Florida to NYC. Now he flies commercial. Whats next? Well, the first place they will go to cut the budget, is athletes contracts. Once all this happens, and it will, I have seen the financials, it will be the end of the IFBB as we know it, many athletes will then jump. This will, of course, take another year.
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But will it ever happen? I doubt it.
I doubt it will happen, too, but I think it would great. In other sports the champion has to requalify for the Big Dance each year. It might make bodybuilding seem more legitimate if the same person could requalify and win the Olympia with different judges.
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Ahhhhhhh... Now we get to the bottom of things. According to "Wall Street" AMI is in deep financial trouble. That's a fact, Jack. Without AMI, there is no Olympia. I understand the Mr. Pecker has even been forced to give up his jet, you see, he commutes from Florida to NYC. Now he flies commercial. Whats next? Well, the first place they will go to cut the budget, is athletes contracts. Once all this happens, and it will, I have seen the financials, it will be the end of the IFBB as we know it, many athletes will then jump. This will, of course, take another year.
If worst comes to worst, don't you think AMI will just go Chapter 11 and continue to operate?
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If worst comes to worst, don't you think AMI will just go Chapter 11 and continue to operate?
Thats exactly what they will do, but in that restructuring, they will have to eliminate athlete salaries.
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Thats exactly what they will do, but in that restructuring, they will have to eliminate athlete salaries.
We need a new Arnold :'(
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Thats exactly what they will do, but in that restructuring, they will have to eliminate athlete salaries.
Well, someone or something is going to suffer, that's for sure. I would do a detailed financial analysis and see what divisions are costing them the most, but I don't feel like it.
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Ahhhhhhh... Now we get to the bottom of things. According to "Wall Street" AMI is in deep financial trouble. That's a fact, Jack. Without AMI, there is no Olympia. I understand the Mr. Pecker has even been forced to give up his jet, you see, he commutes from Florida to NYC. Now he flies commercial. Whats next? Well, the first place they will go to cut the budget, is athletes contracts. Once all this happens, and it will, I have seen the financials, it will be the end of the IFBB as we know it, many athletes will then jump. This will, of course, take another year.
AMI bought the Olympia for just over $3 million that they are paying over 8 years (could be 6) In any course it is $400,000 a year to the IFBB. Thats some good coin to have handed to you for a show you hardly even invested a dime in.
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Is the IFBB Bankrupt?
Finacially? Not yet.
Morally? Absolutely.
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