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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: truthgoddess4u on May 12, 2006, 01:28:20 PM

Title: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: truthgoddess4u on May 12, 2006, 01:28:20 PM
For lat pull downs, which is better: pulling towards the front to the chest or towards the back behind the neck? or train both for variations? Thanks in advance!

this is for wide grip - ;)

Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: sarcasm on May 12, 2006, 01:32:20 PM
For lat pull downs, which is better: pulling towards the front to the chest or towards the back behind the neck? or train both for variations? Thanks in advance!

this is for wide grip - ;)


front.
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: texasRUSH on May 12, 2006, 01:48:16 PM
front..and squeeze...i always look up when i'm doing it and for some reason it helps me feel it more in my lats that way.
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: jpeso on May 12, 2006, 01:49:40 PM
I like front much better, better feeling of the muscles working. ;)
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: WOOO on May 12, 2006, 02:10:53 PM
I do both... I do frint at the start of back day and at the end of everything I finish with behind the neck, making sure to go slow and squeeze...
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: ARMZ on May 12, 2006, 02:17:41 PM
Behind the head Pulldowns is an unnatural movement and is a no-no to be taught by a personal trainer..
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: DarthNemesis21 on May 12, 2006, 03:16:53 PM
Watch them shoulders w/ behind the neck.Mine feel unstable when "rarely" doing them.I lighten up the weight when I do.
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: Dos Equis on May 13, 2006, 01:47:11 AM
I don't think it matters.  Modern conventional wisdom is front, but guys like Haney did rear and he never had a training injury (or so he says).  Either one is safe if your form is perfect.  I do both.
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: NoCalBbEr on May 13, 2006, 11:25:12 AM
always to the front.. if you do it to the back. theres a lot of risk to you rotalor cuffs.
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: Princess L on May 13, 2006, 02:07:59 PM
always to the front.. if you do it to the back. theres a lot of risk to you rotalor cuffs.

Behind the head Pulldowns is an unnatural movement and is a no-no
  ;)

Stick with the front until your a seasoned bb'r and then only maybe....
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: WOOO on May 14, 2006, 05:35:09 AM
  ;)

Stick with the front until your a seasoned bb'r and then only maybe....

Why?  This is a funny myth that developed from a few idiot using way more weight than they can manage... If you warm up and then do a 5 set pyramid-up in weight, there should be no issue with pulling to the rear as long as you work in a controlled fashion, and grind out slow, smooth reps (no bouncing)...   The same goes for shoulder presses behind the neck....
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: pumpster on May 14, 2006, 06:34:31 AM
Quote
This is a funny myth that developed from a few idiot using way more weight than they can manage... If you warm up and then do a 5 set pyramid-up in weight, there should be no issue with pulling to the rear as long as you work in a controlled fashion, and grind out slow, smooth reps (no bouncing)...   The same goes for shoulder presses behind the neck....
Actually you're funny, the way you always post like you're the last word. hahahahahh

Behind the neck presses and pulldowns both cause shoulder impingement, an established condition that is harsh on the joints and potentially injurious. It is NOT a figment of your deluded, arrogant imagination; it's a fact & something that i've experienced. Warming up and using reasonable weight will mitigate but not remove the potential for injury. Using a controlled manner will help to reduce but not remove possible problems; realistically most who traing hard won't keep an entirely controlled cadence for the entire set anyway. It might be worth trying these exercises but be there will always be the potential for problems given the inherent pressures exerted on the shoulders.

A better alternative for behind the neck presses IMO is to do 1/2 or 2/3 motions that avoid the bottom portioin of the ROM that is the most stressful to the joints. This is one where a Smith machine can also help.

Stop posting opinionated misinformation on here like it's fact; someone will pay the price

Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: davie on May 14, 2006, 08:04:57 AM
I think ur idea )pumpster) about only going part way down on behind neck presses is good,thast the way i intend to do them, lower bar until arms brake 90 degrees adn when bar is 1/2 way down my head. That should hopefully help avoid the dangerous bottom portion of the lift.

davie
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: candidate2025 on May 14, 2006, 10:52:52 AM
definitely front.
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: WOOO on May 14, 2006, 01:21:01 PM
Actually you're funny, the way you always post like you're the last word. hahahahahh

Behind the neck presses and pulldowns both cause shoulder impingement, an established condition that is harsh on the joints and potentially injurious. It is NOT a figment of your deluded, arrogant imagination; it's a fact & something that i've experienced. Warming up and using reasonable weight will mitigate but not remove the potential for injury. Using a controlled manner will help to reduce but not remove possible problems; realistically most who traing hard won't keep an entirely controlled cadence for the entire set anyway. It might be worth trying these exercises but be there will always be the potential for problems given the inherent pressures exerted on the shoulders.

A better alternative for behind the neck presses IMO is to do 1/2 or 2/3 motions that avoid the bottom portioin of the ROM that is the most stressful to the joints. This is one where a Smith machine can also help.

Stop posting opinionated misinformation on here like it's fact; someone will pay the price



There are potential problems and dangers inherent in any exercise... as for shoulder impingement... seem to me that my using stretching movements like going behind the head might help prevent injury over time... I do agree with you about the ROM for these movement and I would never suggest going below ear level...

As for me posting as if it's "the last word" go blow a goat... this is a message board and I will express my oppinion...  grow up and deal with it wee-man...  if you have crappy shoulder genetics or if you train with bad form and have hurt yourself then do not project that on the rest of us... some like me have been doing these movements for over 10 years, and use very heavy weight... and NEVER have any shoulder issues...

I would suggest that you are an arrogant, opinionated and deluded fool... not I...
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: pumpster on May 14, 2006, 03:18:29 PM
STF and stop making black & white statements in future that you later have to qualify. Stick to relating your own experiences and opinions that may or may not apply elsewhere.
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: WOOO on May 14, 2006, 05:05:17 PM
STF and stop making black & white statements in future that you later have to qualify. Stick to relating your own experiences and opinions that may or may not apply elsewhere.

hey pumpster.... reduce the dosage or smoke a dube or something... i'll say what I say when I say it.... who cares? 
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: pumpster on May 14, 2006, 05:44:08 PM
Feel free to continue with the arrogant misinfo.
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: FREAKgeek on May 14, 2006, 06:02:57 PM
I don't want to start a war here but if you want the best lat involvement, you'll want a shoulder width, palms facing grip, front pulldown. This puts your biceps in their strongest position. This is ideal because your arms are the weakest link when training lats.
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: ARMZ on May 14, 2006, 07:48:07 PM
Reverse grip rows is how Dorian tore his bicep..
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: Mákos on May 15, 2006, 01:30:02 AM
when pulling to my back i feel the inner parts of my back (closer to the spine) working  more, when pulling to my chin.
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: WOOO on May 15, 2006, 02:49:55 AM
Feel free to continue with the arrogant misinfo.

Let me try to find some more for you....

(http://www.geocities.com/gli_ya/lat1.jpg)
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: Always Sore on May 15, 2006, 06:10:36 AM
There are potential problems and dangers inherent in any exercise... as for shoulder impingement... seem to me that my using stretching movements like going behind the head might help prevent injury over time... I do agree with you about the ROM for these movement and I would never suggest going below ear level...

As for me posting as if it's "the last word" go blow a goat... this is a message board and I will express my oppinion...  grow up and deal with it wee-man...  if you have crappy shoulder genetics or if you train with bad form and have hurt yourself then do not project that on the rest of us... some like me have been doing these movements for over 10 years, and use very heavy weight... and NEVER have any shoulder issues...

I would suggest that you are an arrogant, opinionated and deluded fool... not I...

its just not funny till you here the sentence "go blow a goat" good stuff.
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: pumpster on May 15, 2006, 06:30:51 AM
If it was funny i'd agree. Just witless, unfortunately.

Ya that's equal parts brilliant & sophisticated-for a 6 year old. hahahahhah
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: Always Sore on May 15, 2006, 06:45:18 AM
Ya that's equal parts brilliant & sophisticated-for a 6 year old. hahahahhah

come on you had to laugh just a little, when do you hear the sentence "blow a goat" used? its not like the normal stuff here (your gay,fuck you,eat shit,ect) used all the time.
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: pumpster on May 15, 2006, 06:46:33 AM
The only thing funny is how lame that is.. ;D hahahhah
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: Always Sore on May 15, 2006, 06:50:34 AM
The only thing funny is how lame that is.. ;D hahahhah

while i have you for a second quick question. why do you always take the name off the quote in your response?
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: pumpster on May 15, 2006, 06:51:58 AM
What it is I just capture the quote a different way, that doesn't include the name. I should probably do it the other way, but.. :D
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: Always Sore on May 15, 2006, 06:58:30 AM
What it is I just capture the quote a different way, that doesn't include the name. I should probably do it the other way, but.. :D

thanks and i thought you just didn't like people.:)
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: JPM on May 15, 2006, 09:26:20 AM
Both front & back. Both have their benfits.When the shoulder girdle is warmed up, supple and flexable enought, than behind the neck pulldowns can be handled without fear. Same factor is involved when doing chin's behind the neck, which is not only a good lat exercise but also affect the posterior delts strongly. As with either exercise, I touch the base of the neck and than lower back to the starting position. Some will hold the grip way too wide, which can over extrend the shoulder joint(s) into a position of weakness (injury). Forming roughtly a 90 degree angle, when touching the neck area, offers a better inline position for the shoulders and also better muscle recuitment of the lats.

Might want to SS front pulls(medium curl grip... if you like) with behind the neck pulls in a workout. Or what has worked for a lot of BB'ers is a Tri set of Straight arm Pullovers, front and than rear lat pull downs. Of course those would be the only exercises in a single lat workout. Good Luck.
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: blondmusclhunk on May 15, 2006, 10:09:09 AM
Front, There are some that can do it behind the neck but those that do and have no problems are the ones that have greater rotation of the rotator cuff. The majority do not.  SO DONT DO IT
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: JPM on May 15, 2006, 10:40:02 AM
The one's who have a easier and more fluid/natural function of the rotator cuff's are the one's who have a greater flexability in that area. But not to the point of over extending the joint's themselves. Most BB'er's think of themselves as having superior flexability around the shoulder girdle but most do not. And most do not take the time to strenghten that area or even train with intellegent forethought. Too much flat, and even incline, pressing rather than direct overhead lifts can give raise to muscle imbalance & injury. Good Luck.
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: WOOO on May 15, 2006, 01:49:16 PM
its just not funny till you here the sentence "go blow a goat" good stuff.

it took some thought, but that's what i came up with
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: WOOO on May 15, 2006, 01:52:52 PM
The only thing funny is how lame that is.. ;D hahahhah

(http://www.tiggysribticklers.com/images/blow%20up%20goat.jpg)
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: dontknowit on May 16, 2006, 11:10:01 AM
Front, There are some that can do it behind the neck but those that do and have no problems are the ones that have greater rotation of the rotator cuff. The majority do not.  SO DONT DO IT

Agree,
so just try it. Build up slowly with light weights. (and this ain't a coleman joke)
Start out as a beginner and add slowly every week some weights. Maybe it looks stupid if you only do 50lbs lat pulldown back, but in the long run you're the one who's laughing.
Not getting injured is a personal thing, and everybody who's becoming a veteran in the sport knows that you musn't f*ck with your shoulders.
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: WOOO on May 17, 2006, 02:40:38 PM
LIGHT WEIGHT BABY
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: pumpster on May 17, 2006, 05:05:33 PM
Quote
LIGHT WEIGHT BABY
Brilliant. Start lite, stay small. ::)
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: Sculpter on May 17, 2006, 09:11:35 PM
Go do wide grip chin ups till you can touch your chest to the bar.You'll end up w/a wide back  :).Of course use that w/other exercises!
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: pumpster on May 17, 2006, 09:39:47 PM
Chins of any width will do the trick.  ;)
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: Thin Lizzy on May 20, 2006, 09:40:04 PM
The problem w/ pulldowns to the back is not so much the movement. It's that you have to tilt your head forward in order to not get clunked with the bar. That tilting causes your spine to go out of alignment, making the movement unsafe.

If you had a setup with two separate overhead pulleys, that would allow you to do the movement in a way that would mimic a rear-double-bicep pose, you'd be onto something.
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: pumpster on May 21, 2006, 11:25:42 AM
Quote
The problem w/ pulldowns to the back is not so much the movement. It's that you have to tilt your head forward in order to not get clunked with the bar. That tilting causes your spine to go out of alignment, making the movement unsafe.
Maybe, maybe not. If anything, might lead to minor stress on the neck, not the spine, though I never had a problem with that.

You've completely dismissed the established shoulder impingement issue, because in fact you're wrong-the issue is the movement. Separate pulleys, while helping with freedom of motion, would still contribute to torque issues. The problem is related to the the relative positioning of the upper arms to the shoulders, so that's not good advice.
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: WOOO on May 21, 2006, 05:55:02 PM
Maybe, maybe not. If anything, might lead to minor stress on the neck, not the spine, though I never had a problem with that.

You've completely dismissed the established shoulder impingement issue, because in fact you're wrong-the issue is the movement. Separate pulleys, while helping with freedom of motion, would still contribute to torque issues. The problem is related to the the relative positioning of the upper arms to the shoulders, so that's not good advice.

you blow goats... and you know as much about shoulder impingement as you do about rectums.... wow YOU MUST BE A SHOULDER WHATEVER GENIUS YOU RECTUM LOVER!
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: pumpster on May 21, 2006, 05:56:51 PM
Another clown who didn't know anything until I schooled his ass but desperately wants to sound like his knows what he's talking about...hahahahhha

Blowing goats is like 3rd grade humor, dude. The only thing funny about it is how lame & unfunny you are without realizing it. LOL
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: WOOO on May 22, 2006, 03:29:41 AM
Another clown who didn't know anything until I schooled his ass but desperately wants to sound like his knows what he's talking about...hahahahhha

Blowing goats is like 3rd grade humor, dude. The only thing funny about it is how lame & unfunny you are without realizing it. LOL

was this a comeback?....
Title: Re: Lat Pulldown - front or back?
Post by: BallzDeep69 on May 22, 2006, 03:46:29 AM
LOL, you guys are great, this place is great!  ;D