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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Religious Debates & Threads => Topic started by: Butterbean on May 12, 2006, 09:52:32 PM
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Well, it seems that Bast175 now says that he never really was a Scientologist, but with links and info posted on the thread (thanks to all who contributed), I think some of us learned more about Scientology than we knew previously.
Knowing the possibility of someone claiming affiliation and knowledge of the next belief system could be totally bogus but that we could still learn things about it if we dedicated a learning thread to it, do you guys want to continue this type of thread?
If not, no problem.
But if so, what religion/belief system would you all like to learn about next?
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As you know i've already shredded through Jusaism,Christianity and Scientology.
I haven't really destoried Islam quite yet so maybe that could be next.We could have "Haider" take the place of bast as the whipping boy trying to defend their nonsensical dogma and I'll be the one refuting their religion.
List of Religions you could make a sticky for you all to "learn" about.
- Islam
- Mormonism
- Wicca
- Neo-Paganism
- Buddhism
- Spiritism (Or basic "Spirituality)
- Hinduism
You can randomly pick which is next.
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hahahahah, "Haider", what a friggin name!
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On a serious note, nah Im not ready yet. I dont ahve enough knowledge of my own to be teaching others...or enough patience to feed their egos in Johnny's
nerdboys case.
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Who then? Do we have any Buddhists on this forum?
I doubt we have any Hindu's.
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It's one thing to be atheist or agnostic, but attempting to ridicule all religions is a little sad. There are literally billions of Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Buddhists, Jews, etc. who live much better, happier lives because of their religion.
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It's one thing to be atheist or agnostic, but attempting to ridicule all religions is a little sad.
Attacking a belief system that is wrong and flawed isn't "Sad". If you don't have the guts or brains to do it then just admit it.
There are literally billions of Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Buddhists, Jews, etc. who live much better, happier lives because of their religion.
There were plenty of Nazi's who's belief system made their life much better too. Bad logic.
You're commiting a fallacy. Just because a belief system or action makes someone happy doesn't make it right.
A belief system based on myths and lies should be refuted, Despite how it makes people feel. People are better off believing in the truth opposed to fiction. Modern civilization is a testament to that. We have advanced because we believed in facts not fiction. If we continued to believe the world was the center of the universe and the planets orbited earth as the bible claims how far do you think we'd be in Astronomy now?
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If you don't have the guts or brains to do it then just admit it.
Now there is another brilliant argument. I bet you often get people to agree with you using those kinds of attacks. You don't know me from Adam (so to speak).
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Now there is another brilliant argument. I bet you often get people to agree with you using those kinds of attacks. You don't know me from Adam (so to speak).
Thanks for proving my point again...
Focusing on a single comment I make and then addressing it and ignoring the rest of the entire post!
Gutless indeed.
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Sometimes people debate out of a sincere and honest desire to show someone the truth.
And sometimes it's all about PRIDE.
OK, I've PMed someone that I THINK follows Wicca, but I'm not sure.....If so, and they are willing to be our educator, that will be the topic of the next Learning Thread. :)
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As you know i've already shredded through Jusaism,Christianity and Scientology.
You can randomly pick which is next.
Okay, I pick Wicca. However, right off the bat, I'm not a Wiccan and really don't know all that much about it, except I became interested after reading up on Judaic mythology, and the story of Lilith, for an unrelated reason. So this is really more of a question than anything else. Here's a (not so quick) plot synopsis of the myth...
One story is that God created Adam and Lilith as twins joined together at the back. She demanded equality with Adam, failing to achieve it, she left him in anger. This is sometimes accompanied by a Muslim legend that after leaving Adam Lilith slept with Satan, thus creating the demonic Djinn.
In another version of the myth of Lilith, she was Adam's first wife before Eve. Adam tried to make Lilith lie beneath him during sexual intercourse. Lilith would not meet this demand of male dominance. She cursed Adam and hurried to her home by the Red Sea.
Adam complained to God who then sent three angels, Sanvi, Sansanvi and Semangelaf, to bring Lilith back to Eden. Lilith rebuffed the angels by cursing them. While by the Red Sea Lilith became a lover to demons and producing 100 babies a day. The angels said that God would take these demon children away from her unless she returned to Adam. When she did not return, she was punished accordingly. And, God also gave Adam the docile Eve.
According to some Lilith's fecundity and sexual preferences showed she was a Great Mother of settled agricultural tribes, who resisted the invasions of the nomadic herdsmen, represented by Adam. It is felt the early Hebrews disliked the Great Mother who drank the blood of Abel, the herdsman, after being slain by the elder god of agriculture and smithcraft, Cain (Genesis 4:11). Lilith's Red Sea is but another version of Kali Ma's Ocean of Blood, which gave birth to all things but needed periodic sacrificial replenishment...
From what I understand, the Wiccans tie the story of Lilith to the Moon Goddess, and although I've tried to find more information, unfortunately mostly everything online is just "touchy-feely-crystal" stuff with no real substance. I've tried the bookstore as well, with the same results, or the material glosses over it in a very general way. If Johnny (or anyone) can glean any light on the subject of Lilith translatd into the Wiccan faith, I'd love to know and would be grateful!
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OK, let's do Wicca. Thanks DeeDee :)
It turns out that the person I thought practiced Wicca does not.
Let's try it anyway w/o an "educator."
The thread may not last as long as one where we have an "educator" (whether a false one or not), but with all the clever minds on here, I'm sure we'll learn something. :D
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Lilith is a female demon of the night from old middle eastern folklore. Mostly in Mesopotamia. She appears in Issiah as a "Screech owl" translated from "liyliyth" who was a "night demon" who haunted desolate places of Edom.
(http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/strongs/1147665564-2781.html)
I don't know why the translators translated lilith as "owl". Maybe to make the whole passage less creepy to readers unfamilar(Christians) with middle eastern demonlogy. I don't know for sure.
Many later translations translate it as "Demon" or "Night creature" or even "vampire".
Lilith is said to of hunted little boys so in Jewish tradition they waited to cut boys hair to trick lilith into believing they were females.
The story of lilith being Adams "connected" wife or wife prior to Eve is a passage in the bible stating God made Adam(and his wife) as one. "He made them,Them he made". This is found in the Alphabet of Ben-Sira an early christian text from the middle ages.
In Modern magic or "new wicca" lilith is regarded as a feminine demon and embodies the power of feminism or females and is a symbol for the female.
Sumerian terra cota relief of lilith with bird feet(Possible connection to Issiah's "owl")
(http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~humm/Topics/Lilith/Images/burnLi2c.jpg)
Some good sources on Lilith include..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith
http://www.ucalgary.ca/~elsegal/Shokel/950206_Lilith.html
http://www.lilitu.com/lilith
http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~humm/Topics/Lilith/
Extensive site with many details
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Sometimes people debate out of a sincere and honest desire to show someone the truth.
And sometimes it's all about PRIDE.
Hammer meet nail!
...just remember that old saying "The Road to Hell is paved with good intentions."
OK, I've PMed someone that I THINK follows Wicca, but I'm not sure.....If so, and they are willing to be our educator, that will be the topic of the next Learning Thread. :)
STella, if you're referring to me... you're barking up the wrong tree. I'm not a WICCAN. >:(
I don't put labels on myself, ...so I would appreciate it very much if you didn't either. please and thankyou!
If I've assumed too much or misunderstood your statement, ...I apologize. If I didn't, consider it food for thought
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First of all, thank you so much Johnny for taking the time to answer my post. I'll take a much closer look at the links tonight when I get home, but I can see they are quite in depth just from scrolling through. I already have the Robert Graves book, which is excellent, so obviously I've struck a gold mine of info here. (Guess your research abilities far exceed mine!)
The story of lilith being Adams "connected" wife or wife prior to Eve is a passage in the bible stating God made Adam(and his wife) as one. "He made them,Them he made". This is found in the Alphabet of Ben-Sira an early christian text from the middle ages.
Just as an aside, I've also read recently that according to some Judaic texts, Adam was purported to actually have had three wives, the second having been created from the earth, which repulsed Adam. It was only on the third try, with the meek and lovely Eve, that peace in Eden was finally attained.
In Modern magic or "new wicca" lilith is regarded as a feminine demon and embodies the power of feminism or females and is a symbol for the female.
For some strange reason, I thought there was some connection with the Moon Goddess, and I thought Lilith for some reason had more presence in the Wiccan faith.
(If I find anything, I'll post it, because I know everyone is just waiting with bated breath on this one. Who would deny that Bodybuilding + Wicca go together like a wink and a smile!)
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Hammer meet nail!
...just remember that old saying "The Road to Hell is paved with good intentions."
STella, if you're referring to me... you're barking up the wrong tree. I'm not a WICCAN. >:(
I don't put labels on myself, ...so I would appreciate it very much if you didn't either. please and thankyou!
If I've assumed too much or misunderstood your statement, ...I apologize. If I didn't, consider it food for thought
Now now Jag! No, it wasn't you. Did I PM you asking if you were into wicca? Nope.
I accept your apology :)
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Well, it seems that Bast175 now says that he never really was a Scientologist, but with links and info posted on the thread (thanks to all who contributed), I think some of us learned more about Scientology than we knew previously.
Knowing the possibility of someone claiming affiliation and knowledge of the next belief system could be totally bogus but that we could still learn things about it if we dedicated a learning thread to it, do you guys want to continue this type of thread?
If not, no problem.
But if so, what religion/belief system would you all like to learn about next?
Does Bast bailing on Scientology surprise anyone?
I'd like to learn more about Atheists and why they choose that path. Does it stem from upbringing in a household with no religion? Or some sort of realization later in life? Serious.
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Excuse my dumbness, but where is the Scientology thread?
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http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=67353.0
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Just as an aside, I've also read recently that according to some Judaic texts, Adam was purported to actually have had three wives, the second having been created from the earth, which repulsed Adam. It was only on the third try, with the meek and lovely Eve, that peace in Eden was finally attained
:-\ Is it just me... or do you see something odd there too Deedee?
For some reason, that just strikes me as a bunch of crap concocted by a bunch of mysoginistic, patriarchal assholes fearful of a woman's power. Show me a man who can only find happiness with a meek woman, ...and I'll show you a weak, insecure, wimp. >:(
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Excuse my dumbness, but where is the Scientology thread?
It's no longer a sticky because we're changing the "Learning Thread" topic.
But the thread is still on the board ...and still open for discussion!
I'd like to learn more about Atheists and why they choose that path. Does it stem from upbringing in a household with no religion? Or some sort of realization later in life? Serious.
Should we try 2 Learning Threads at the same time? And as they begin to dry up we'll unsticky them.
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I know Toxie had a Wiccan girlfriend named Laura. It would be nice if he posted some anecdotal stuff regarding the faith, if there is any, just so we get a rounded picture...Toxic, too personal???
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:-\ Is it just me... or do you see something odd there too Deedee?
For some reason, that just strikes me as a bunch of crap concocted by a bunch of mysoginistic, patriarchal assholes fearful of a woman's power. Show me a man who can only find happiness with a meek woman, ...and I'll show you a weak, insecure, wimp. >:(
Jag, if you don't mind me asking, what was the relationship like with your father as a child? I sense quite a bit of resentment towards men from you. I'm just curious for my own perceptions.
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I hope someone who is knowledgable of Wicca posts here. Wicca is very interesting. From what i understand it's a 25,000 year old religion.
Jag, if you don't mind me asking, what was the relationship like with your father as a child? I sense quite a bit of resentment towards men from you. I'm just curious for my own perceptions.
I'm not speaking for Jag but she strikes me as a person who can spot BS a mile away. So when soneone lays that lame players game on her she's instantly turned off. And maybe she's been getting a lot of traffic that way lately.
Cook her a good dinner, like saffron infused rissotto with artichokes and lemon, Wild Mushroom roasted Chicken, braised Kale, and Cream Brulea with reconstituted dried blue berries and give her some stimulating conversation. That might get you on the right track
OR
I might be totally off and you might just need to take her to Hooters and buy her a beer while you play "real or fake" for shots. :P
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Jag, if you don't mind me asking, what was the relationship like with your father as a child? I sense quite a bit of resentment towards men from you. I'm just curious for my own perceptions.
You're not a Psychologist.
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You're not a Psychologist.
And your point would be? Am I not to ask questions like this? Am I not to be intuative?
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Anymore questions about..Anything?
Wicca specifically?
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Is Wicca still the fastest growing religion in the world, or has Islam made it's way back to the top?
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:-\ Is it just me... or do you see something odd there too Deedee?
For some reason, that just strikes me as a bunch of crap concocted by a bunch of mysoginistic, patriarchal assholes fearful of a woman's power. Show me a man who can only find happiness with a meek woman, ...and I'll show you a weak, insecure, wimp. >:(
Actually Jag I find it comforting, if that's the word to use, that the Jewish elders were wise enough, thousands of years ago to know, and to create myths around the "power of women."
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Is Wicca still the fastest growing religion in the world, or has Islam made it's way back to the top?
I think it's Wicca...and I quote
"In 1998, the Chicago Tribune reported: “Neo-paganism is the fastest-growing religion in North America with the Internet being the prime means of proselytizing.”(6) In 2001, the American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS), conducted by the Graduate Center of the University of New York, indicated seventeen-fold growth in the Wiccan community between 1990 and 2001—the highest of any faith group monitored. “This would indicate a doubling in numbers of adherents about every 2.5 years.”(7) Curott estimates faster growth, suggesting “a doubling of size every 18 months.”(8) If either figure is accurate and if this trend continues, “Wicca [could] be the third largest religious group in the U.S. by about 2012, behind Christianity and Judaism.”(9)"
I can see why. Aside from some of the kooky practices, like "moon bathing" etc., Wicca basically spreads the same ideas Jesus did. In many ways, Wicca IS what christianity was supposed to be.
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(http://www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.gif)
Christianity 32% (dropping)
Islam 19% (growing)
Wicca <1%
Nobody knows how many Wiccans that there are. We have a hunch that few estimates are accurate within 50%.
When we started to research this question, we assumed that we could find a few reasonably accurate estimates, compute their average, and present the result as a ballpark number of the number of Wiccans in the U.S. But it was not to be. We found estimates as low as 2,000 Wiccans in 1982 or 3,600 in 1996. At the other extreme, Phyllis Curott, author of Book of Shadows, estimated 5 to 10 million in 1999. 1
http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_nbr.htm
I doubt the statistics posted in the post above mine.
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I doubt the statistics posted in the post above mine.
Well, I did quote a newspaper and they do have fact checkers, although granted it's an old one, and maybe Wicca went on a downslide. However, I find more info here that still suggests it's one of the fastest growing religions percentage-wise.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_prac2.htm
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A few basic facts about Wicca (which was founded by a British Civil Servant sometime in the '40s.) as related by a Wiccan:
Goddess is Great Mother Goddess. She may be referred to a Aphrodite or Kuan-Yin. She is in everything, in every person or plant or rock. You can speak to her and pray to her. She takes many forms. She is the moon, and is often thought of as the Triple Goddess as manifested in the Maiden, the Mother, and the Crone. Her symbol is a full moon flanked by crescent moons. According to Wicca, there is both a Goddess and a God. The God is the Sun. He is the hunter and Green Man; the father.
Traditionally, the Goddess and God are lovers. They are equals. Almost anything can be categorized as either in the Kingdom of the Sun or the Kingdom of the Moon. They are in everything, according to tradition.Devil Wiccans in no way worship the devil. In fact, Wicca as a religion does not even believe in a devil. Although pictures of God or Goddess may have horns, this was accepted in ancient times and was not a sign of evil. It was common practice for conquering religions (in this case Christianity) to demonize the gods they replaced.
There are not many rules in Wicca, but one that most Wiccans follow is the Wiccan Rede (also known as the Wiccan Law, Wiccan Rule, etc.): An it harm none do what thou wilt -- meaning, do what you want, but don't harm anyone. Another law some Wiccans folow is the Threefold Law or Law of Three. It is that what you do, good or bad, will come back to you three times as strong. Others believe in Karma, which is similar to the Threefold Law.
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Jag, if you don't mind me asking, what was the relationship like with your father as a child? I sense quite a bit of resentment towards men from you. I'm just curious for my own perceptions.
Colossus,
My relationship with my father was so close, and so special that I don't quite have the words to describe it.
Your asking me is forcing me to go deep into my memory banks, ...and just recalling it is moving me to tears.
My Dad was very special, ...one in a million.
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I'm not speaking for Jag but she strikes me as a person who can spot BS a mile away. So when soneone lays that lame players game on her she's instantly turned off. And maybe she's been getting a lot of traffic that way lately.
BINGO!!!! That is SUCH a total turn off {spit} to me, it borders on being literally physically repulsive.
Cook her a good dinner, like saffron infused rissotto with artichokes and lemon, Wild Mushroom roasted Chicken, braised Kale, and Cream Brulea with reconstituted dried blue berries and give her some stimulating conversation. That might get you on the right track
I think I just had an orgasm! {blush} LOL :D
OzmO, you're a man after my own heart! :-* ...and after dinner, ...I want a PIZZA with lots of pepperoni! ;) ;D
OR
I might be totally off and you might just need to take her to Hooters and buy her a beer while you play "real or fake" for shots. :P
That might be good for a lark.
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While researching the connection between Lilith and her presence in Wicca, I came across this Wacky Wiccan site. If you want to know what "tree" represents you (personally, I'm a pine tree...the knowing has changed everything!) or are in the mood for charms, spells and palmistry on the spot for people on the go, check it out. Plus, there's a pic of her face "in the bedroom." She's definitely a wiccan hottie!
http://www.geocities.com/medeaaa/FrontPorch.html
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While researching the connection between Lilith and her presence in Wicca, I came across this Wacky Wiccan site. If you want to know what "tree" represents you (personally, I'm a pine tree...the knowing has changed everything!) or are in the mood for charms, spells and palmistry on the spot for people on the go, check it out. Plus, there's a pic of her face "in the bedroom." She's definitely a wiccan hottie!
http://www.geocities.com/medeaaa/FrontPorch.html
I'm a lime tree?
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I'm a Fir Tree
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Jaggy, looks like according to treeology, you're the best of us three. Seems like we're all winter babies with our birthdays within three months. Anyway, very belated happy b'days to both of you!
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Jaggy, looks like according to treeology, you're the best of us three. Seems like we're all winter babies with our birthdays within three months. Anyway, very belated happy b'days to both of you!
Happy Belated Birthdays to both of you as well.
BTW - Deedee, not to worry. It's comin' up again on July 6th, ...plenty of time for you to do some shopping.
Perhaps something from Prague? ;)
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It's one thing to be atheist or agnostic, but attempting to ridicule all religions is a little sad. There are literally billions of Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Buddhists, Jews, etc. who live much better, happier lives because of their religion.
How do you know it is the religion that makes them happy beings?
YIP
Zack
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How do you know it is the religion that makes them happy beings?
YIP
Zack
Well, I haven't spoken to millions of people, so I'm making an assumption. I'm assuming, for example, that many of the practicing Christians I know who treat their bodies as "temples" are happier than the person who has a drug or alcohol addiction. That the guys who are faithful to their wives are happier than those who cheat. That the many people I hear talk about how their faith has enriched their lives are actually telling the truth.