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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: lilwoday09smb on May 27, 2006, 06:52:44 PM
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what do you guys think works the chest better, i have a real hard time choosing between the two. do you think pullovers or dips hits the chest more.
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neither
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i like pullover. you can alt. them from week to week
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Neither.
But Pullovers hit the inner pecs if done right.
Dips for me are all triceps. No matter how far foward I lean or the grip width.
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They are both very effective chest exercises. Most people go way too light and don't use a full range of motion on dips.
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Dips are a mass builder for the pecs. Bent are pullovers will hit the pec's very well also. Actually both these movement are prime upper body builders. Why not treat yourself and do both exercises in the same workout? Would not that be fun? Good Luck.
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Dips done properly will hit the pecs-elbows flared out, leaning forward & using something of a fly motion. They require ample warmup though, and for some will cause shoulder probs.
Pullovers are one of the very-best lat & serratus exercises there is.
Supersetting dips & pullovers is a classic chest-lat combo.
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They are both very effective chest exercises. Most people go way too light and don't use a full range of motion on dips.
snap!
people never go low enough. go a bit below parallel and u feel it. lke doing bench pres with half ROM of course gonna hit tris
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LOL... I've tried the elbows flared, wide grip leaning foward, going so low that my chest is fully stretched, and doing slow reps with heavy weight but it still doesn't hit my chest good enough for me to warrant it a chest exercise. For myself that is.
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I've tried the elbows flared, wide grip leaning foward, going so low that my chest is fully stretched, and doing slow reps with heavy weight but it still doesn't hit my chest good enough
It's over-hyped, for some who find it next to useless. Decline flys and dumbbell presses are great alternatives.
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ok another chest ?. dumbbells or barbell. what do you feel hits chest better. i say dumbbell i get a deeper stretch and pump, but i can go heavier on barbell, i wonder if doing a few more reps with dumbbell is better than doing bb, since my gym stops at 120 pound db.
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I still do pull-overs at 32. I think they're great and just fill out my pump at the end of the work-out. I do dips now for tri's Some dip bars don't allow you to get the forward motion or stretch you need. I did em when i was younger and they really work.
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Dips done properly will hit the pecs-elbows flared out, leaning forward & using something of a fly motion. They require ample warmup though, and for some will cause shoulder probs.
Pullovers are one of the very-best lat & serratus exercises there is.
Supersetting dips & pullovers is a classic chest-lat combo.
Dips absolutely kill my shoulders...I have done bench dips with weight on my lap for triceps..but regular dips seem very awkward for me. I feel the pullovers more in the lats than the chest...maybe my form is bad or something,but I always have sore lats the next day.
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Supersetting dips & pullovers is a classic chest-lat combo.
i do this superset once in awhile... always after chest day though.... get's a nice stretch at the end of the workout
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Dips absolutely kill my shoulders...I have done bench dips with weight on my lap for triceps..but regular dips seem very awkward for me. I feel the pullovers more in the lats than the chest...maybe my form is bad or something,but I always have sore lats the next day.
Absolutely:
-Bench dips are better for tris than regular dips, with none of the shoulder stress.
-Decline flys & decline DB presses hit the same areas of the chest as dips without the shoulder stress.
-Pullovers is one of the only lat isolation exercises, and one of the best of all for lats. Chest I dont feel at all.
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neither
Careful! Your youth and lack of training knowledge are starting to show. LOL!
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neither
Careful! Your youth and lack of training knowledge are starting to show. LOL!
IMO he's right, certainly for some at least those two may not be the best choices for chest, for different reasons. Dips just because they don't work that well for many, pullovers because the primary emphasis is actually on the lats & serratus.
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I actually do dips this way:
Chin on chest, legs are in a bent position, but way in front of me and elbows out. Tough to do with just body weight alone.
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I believe Old-Flip is doing the version of the Vince Gironda style of dipping. Vince also had a special way of doing pull-ups, bar touching the upper chest, shoulders drawn back, amoung other things. If anyone has dipping handles that can turn and allow the knuckles to face forward, than that can be an effective way to do the exercise. Elbows are also held wide and the chin is tucked in due to the nature of the movement. In either case the stress is directed to be more on the pecs, than the triceps, themselves. There is also the position where the hands are resting on the heel/palms facing forward ( somewhat akin to a position of a curl grip) when dipping. This has a strong influence on the triceps as well as the inner pecs.
For most trainee's the regular leaning forward dip style brings favorable results. The pecs, triceps and anterior/laterior delts are hit hard. A prime goal is to added weight to the movement as progress is gained. Adding 100-150lbs, over time, is not out of the question for the average trainee. There is no need for any ultimate stretch at the bottom of exercise. That's when a over-extention/stretch can enter a caution zone with regards to injury. For what's it's worth in my view, the dip (in whatever style) is a better pec & upper body mass builder than the BP. Can also couple this with the bent arm pullover as another execellent pec/chest and upper body movement. Good Luck.
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Both. You don't have to chose one over the other. Haven't done pullovers in years, but it's a great exercise. Arnold believes it expands the rib cage by stretching the cartilage between your ribs. Not sure I buy that, but still a great exercise.
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I love pullovers, i would never get into big discussion about how it does/doesnt expand ribcage, im 22, il let u no in 10 years if its helped. I do slight bent arem pullover and press. I feel it in lats,chest and arms, i also do dips aswell (more for triceps-though it hits chest to), i say dont choose one or teh other....do both.
davie
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Careful! Your youth and lack of training knowledge are starting to show. LOL!
bitch shut up...dips are worthless unless done on a bench with plates on your lap when done for triceps. and pullovers are a shitty chest developer, and add tons of width to your front lat spread when done correctly
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bitch shut up...dips are worthless unless done on a bench with plates on your lap when done for triceps. correctly
Bullshit. Dips are good for chest and triceps, and doing them on a bench is stupid.
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bitch shut up...dips are worthless unless done on a bench with plates on your lap when done for triceps. and pullovers are a shitty chest developer, and add tons of width to your front lat spread when done correctly
::) ::) ::)
Bullshit. Dips are good for chest and triceps, and doing them on a bench is stupid.
It's obvious he has no clue what exercises are being discussed.
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Ronnie does dips, but what the hell does he know?
(http://www.ronniecoleman.com/images/pic_dips.jpg)
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It's over-hyped, for some who find it next to useless. Decline flys and dumbbell presses are great alternatives.
Barbell Bench presses, incline dumbell presses, and flat dumbell flyes work great for me.
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bitch shut up...dips are worthless unless done on a bench with plates on your lap when done for triceps. and pullovers are a shitty chest developer, and add tons of width to your front lat spread when done correctly
I actually agree with this kid. Though I also think bench dips are a retarded, stupid exercise.
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ronnie does machine dips for triceps, a totally diff muscle being worked
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Ronnie does dips, but what the hell does he know?
(http://www.ronniecoleman.com/images/pic_dips.jpg)
True, he does occasionally does machine dips as one of his tricep exercises.
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Hi Princess L, who are you referring to as clueless? Bast or Candidate?
I think Bast is old enough to realize he doesn't know everything. 8)
It's the 16 year olds who have it all figured out ::)
Sorry :-\
It's past my bedtime.
I was referring to C2025, our resident expert.
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Let's get this straight once and for all
(sarcastic tone of voice)
:P
Chest Dip for chest
Tricep Dip for triceps
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Those are both for triceps. ^
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Though I also think bench dips are a retarded, stupid exercise.
Bench dips were a big fave of Fox & Schwarzenegger; machine dips that are similar were/are faves of Dillet & Coleman. Definitely one of the best for tris, as good or better than close-grips yet different.
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Those are both for triceps. ^
not the leaning forward dips :-\
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Neither.
But Pullovers hit the inner pecs if done right.
...
So you have inner pecs ???
Serious note;
dips = compound excersise;
it hits triceps, chest and shoulders.
Pullovers,
shoulderwrecker,
but the funny thing is,
people who claim that they can't do behind the neck-press, love this excersise.
Pullover btw does jackshit,
it hits the abs, back, but it leaves the chest.
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Never had any issues with pullovers and shoulder problems, none. Much more for lats than chest, agreed.
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Those are both for triceps. ^
not the leaning forward dips :-\
Serious note;
dips = compound exercise;
it hits triceps, chest and shoulders.
The concept of compound seems to elude some ::)
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Ofcourse it hits the triceps also, but we're talking abt chest exercises here. Leaning forward dips, as opposed to tricep dips(on a parallel bar), hit the chest much better, and that was my point. Generally, the triceps are included as a 'synergist' muscle group when talking about "Leaning Forward" dips, even on the exrx site you are referring to: http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/PectoralSternal/WtChestDip.html (http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/PectoralSternal/WtChestDip.html)
;)
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I'm not an expert but I will add dips in at the end of my chest workout when my Tri's are still stronger that my chest and I can really feel it..if you want to work you Tri's more do the opposite do your dips when your chest is stronger than your tri's maybe at the end of an arm day or something...I believe its called pre-fatiguing... ???
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In regards to the topic....
dips > pullovers
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Ofcourse it hits the triceps also, but we're talking abt chest exercises here. Leaning forward dips, as opposed to tricep dips(on a parallel bar), hit the chest much better, and that was my point. Generally, the triceps are included as a 'synergist' muscle group when talking about "Leaning Forward" dips, even on the exrx site you are referring to: http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/PectoralSternal/WtChestDip.html (http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/PectoralSternal/WtChestDip.html)
;)
Relax haider.
I was agreeing with you.
:-*
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Bench dips were a big fave of Fox & Schwarzenegger; machine dips that are similar were/are faves of Dillet & Coleman. Definitely one of the best for tris, as good or better than close-grips yet different.
Yeah and Arnold's tri's were his worst bodypart, and no they weren't Arnold's "Fav" whatsoever. He always gave credit for what little tricep mass he had to skullcrushers. He did bench dips for really high reps (20-25) at the end of his routine for a pump.
Machine dips are good for the tris because you can manipulate the angle of pressing to where it is ALL tris.
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not the leaning forward dips :-\
I can lean foward to where I'm nearly horizontal and it is still a tricep exercise for me. Even if I use a wide grip, I just feel it in my delts a little more but not my chest really at all.
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So you have inner pecs ???
Serious note;
dips = compound excersise;
it hits triceps, chest and shoulders.
Pullovers,
shoulderwrecker,
but the funny thing is,
people who claim that they can't do behind the neck-press, love this excersise.
Pullover btw does jackshit,
it hits the abs, back, but it leaves the chest.
Yes, I have inner pecs or "chest cleavage". You would too if you worked your chest effectively and from different angles.
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The concept of compound seems to elude some ::)
Dips are compound no doubt, but it doesn't isolate my chest worth a damn.
My point seems to elude you.
The Bench press is a compound exercise that isolates my chest very well, without over-stimulating my delts and triceps like dips do.
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Yeah and Arnold's tri's were his worst bodypart, and no they weren't Arnold's "Fav" whatsoever.
I luv the way you've left out Fox and bench dips. Dillet also loves a similar move, machine dips.
I said A fave of Schwarzenegger's, and they were. He NEVER said a particualar exercise was his favorite, so put aside the fiction. As far as his triceps, while they didn't match the bis they were actually pretty good sized, so you'd be wrong there too.. ;)
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Dips are compound no doubt, but it doesn't isolate my chest worth a damn.
My point seems to elude you.
You have made it very clear several times they don't work for YOU. Fine. Of course, not everything works for everyone. However, to claim the chest dip performed as depicted above is not a chest exercise goes against basic kinesiology.
btw ~ I wasn't even talking to you :-\
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I luv the way you've left out Fox and bench dips. Dillet also loves a similar move, machine dips.
I said A fave of Schwarzenegger's, and they were. He NEVER said a particualar exercise was his favorite, so put aside the fiction. As far as his triceps, while they didn't match the bis they were actually pretty good sized, so you'd be wrong there too.. ;)
O.K. "pumpster".
Why do you "luv" it so much? Weirdo. Yeah I tend to leave out convicted, violent MURDERERS from my posts. Besides, Bertil was a gentically freakish black man who would have grown monster tri's no matter what he did.
I don't know what playgirl mag you've been reading, but Arnold ALWAYS said skullcrushers were his favorite for tricep mass. Fact. He even said himself that his tri's were weak. Compared to yours of course they are large!
So nope, I'm not wrong either way. Sorry to have to bring your Uber internet ego down a notch.
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You have made it very clear several times they don't work for YOU. Fine. Of course, not everything works for everyone. However, to claim the chest dip performed as depicted above is not a chest exercise goes against basic kinesiology.
btw ~ I wasn't even talking to you :-\
Everyone knows that "basic kinesiology" is very out-dated, that and I couldn't give 2 girls about what a book says about an exercise. People have different structures and I don't think enough people's pecs respond to so called "chest dips" to warrant it a pec exercise. Some swear by it, and that's fine. Do what works for you.
If you weren't talking to me, then don't quote me then go and make snide remarks below it.
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O.K. "pumpster".
Why do you "luv" it so much? Weirdo. Yeah I tend to leave out convicted, violent MURDERERS from my posts. Besides, Bertil was a gentically freakish black man who would have grown monster tri's no matter what he did.
"Balls" confirming both SERIOUS anger-management issues and big-time know-all attitude.
hahahahhahahahhahahahhah aha
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as far as hitting the chest specifically i would say dips. but i still prefer pullovers as dips seem to irritate my elbows
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Everyone knows that "basic kinesiology" is very out-dated,
:o Really :o
Gosh, I wonder why dozens of universities throughout the U.S. and Canada offer it as a degreed program AND it's growing. :o What a shame all those recent graduates are obsolete already.
If you weren't talking to me, then don't quote me then go and make snide remarks below it.
Get over yourself.
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I don't care what any of ya say..bench dips with weight absolutely fry my triceps...not as good as skull crushers,but they still are very effective...for me at leaste.
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"Balls" confirming both SERIOUS anger-management issues and big-time know-all attitude.
hahahahhahahahhahahahhah aha
LOL, what a neandrathal.
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:o Really :o
Gosh, I wonder why dozens of universities throughout the U.S. and Canada offer it as a degreed program AND it's growing. :o What a shame all those recent graduates are obsolete already.
Get over yourself.
Like, OmiGosh, Because like they make millions off of your tuition, duh... Totally... AND wow glad you made sure to capitalize the AND! Wahahahahaha!! So totally defiant with your Uber bitchy attitude! Like, are you on your period? Thanks for the laugh! :D (totally)
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I don't care what any of ya say..bench dips with weight absolutely fry my triceps...not as good as skull crushers,but they still are very effective...for me at leaste.
Bench dips don't get the recognition they deserve as the best compound exercise for isolating the tris, and they do not hurt the shoulders like regular dips can. Bench dips or close-grip benches are the best compounds to do along with extensions, from my experience.
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Really
Gosh, I wonder why dozens of universities throughout the U.S. and Canada offer it as a degreed program AND it's growing. What a shame all those recent graduates are obsolete already.
Get over yourself.
Like, OmiGosh, Because like they make millions off of your tuition, duh... Totally... AND wow glad you made sure to capitalize the AND! Wahahahahaha!! So totally defiant with your Uber bitchy attitude! Like, are you on your period? Thanks for the laugh!
What a dink-now he's going to set us straight on university programs! We're very lucky to have a true genius here with us, albeit one in need of anger-management and socialization.
Best to ignore this dufus; obviously attention-starved with no content. ;)
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If anyone has access to a 'V' shaped dipping bar than the ability to do extra wide to very narrow dips (and anything in between) is present. This way you can find which hand position affects which body part the best, weither it be pecs, delts or triceps. And as suggested before, if some way you can do dips with the knuckles forward than a different influence is felt on the pecs. Can also do bench dips with a 'V' bar with the legs raised on a bench, box, etc.
If a pair of gymnstic rings are used than so much the better. A whole new slant on pec work as well as delt & triceps, will be offered. Just muscle up or use a high bench, ladder, etc, to get in the position of dipping. A great all around upper body exercise. Not used much these day's by BB'ers, don't know why.
Speaking of positions: I will have to agree with the exciting, endearing and always lovely Princess L. Kinesiology 101 is still a strong bases of any future study on human function, preformance and adaptability. Prime course in most schools. Except liberial art's colleges, but they don't count for much anyway (just my view). Good Luck.
Side Bar: Any position the lovely Princess L want's to take is OK with me.
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If anyone has access to a 'V' shaped dipping bar than the ability to do extra wide to very narrow dips (and anything in between) is present. This way you can find which hand position affects which body part the best
I've not seen one of those. Makes so much sense. duh
If a pair of gymnstic rings are used than so much the better. A whole new slant on pec work as well as delt & triceps, will be offered.
Again, makes so much sense. Good idea / reminder for those with access to those tools. I mean, look at male gymnists - whether you like the look or not, ya gotta appreciate the physique and strength and power.
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Thanks for the laugh! :D (totally)
Anytime
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bitch shut up...dips are worthless unless done on a bench with plates on your lap when done for triceps. and pullovers are a shitty chest developer, and add tons of width to your front lat spread when done correctly
LOL ;D
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What a dink-now he's going to set us straight on university programs! We're very lucky to have a true genius here with us, albeit one in need of anger-management and socialization.
Best to ignore this dufus; obviously attention-starved with no content. ;)
Dink? Dufus? ::NERD ALERT!::
Let me guess, I'll bet your name's something like "Poindexter".
You remind me of T.J. from the movie Grandma's Boy. "I..Am..A..Genius!" Hahahahah!
Thanks man, I needed that laugh! :D
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Excellent contributions to our training knowledge. These are screams for help.. ;)
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Oh yeah, you're right...
Let me just stop beating around the bush so you no longer need to question me, here ya go.
HELP ME AHHHHHHHH!!!!! THIS IS NO DOUBT A CRY FOR HELP! PLEASE HELP ME NOW!
There now shut up biatch! ::)
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Yes, I have inner pecs or "chest cleavage". You would too if you worked your chest effectively and from different angles.
I will quote this cause it's a funny. I'm considering to mark you as a candidate for the Noble Price in Physiology or Medicine.
The pecs is build out of three parts,
pectoralis major, you divide this one in two parts,
sternal; greatest part; clavicular small upper part,
pecatoralis minor, also a small one, also knows as lower pecs or something similar, but that aint correct,
it's actual a small vertical muscle connecting the shoulder to the ribs.
The chest cleavage is a combination of genetics, tendon, low fat and muscle mass.
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I'm considering to mark you as a candidate for the Noble PRIZE for English/grammar and writing.
Ok, all science aside.
I workout and build my chest up with some decent size, only when I add in dumbell flyes and squeeze the shit outta my pecs do my inner pecs pop out. My overall development is basically the same, only the inner chest doesn't pop until I do dumbell flyes, and I finally have that prominent outline, square look to my chest. Body fat exactly the same.
Please explain this if there is no possible way to put more stress in the inner area of your pec...?
Charles Glass would have a field day with a guy like you. 8)
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Charles Glass ;D
A genetic freak with some medical help.
Show me the innerpecs.
Fibers from left to right, who all contract or relax at once. Do you really want to claim that you can contract the rightpart more that the middle or leftside. Really? Don't believe all those so-called guru's.
(http://www.docmartin.at/Unfallchirurgie/Schulter/pectoralis.jpg)
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Theory is one thing, but very clearly certain exercises emphasize certain parts of muscles, there's no doubt. Every so often someone will claim that due to anatomy that isn't possible, yet it happens. ;)
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LOL, what a neandrathal.
that's kind of a compliment! ;D
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Bench dips don't get the recognition they deserve as the best compound exercise for isolating the tris, and they do not hurt the shoulders like regular dips can. Bench dips or close-grip benches are the best compounds to do along with extensions, from my experience.
i think bench dips are awesome... but narrow grip presses (hands about 14 inches apart) own them all day... nothing has worked better for me... just old school triceps
narrow grip presses (free weight barbell)
skull crushers with a straight bar (it hurts my wrists, but i feel it more
and overhead single arm dumbbell extensions...
nothing fancy
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but narrow grip presses (hands about 14 inches apart) own them all day... nothing has worked better for me... just old school triceps
narrow grip presses (free weight barbell)
skull crushers with a straight bar (it hurts my wrists, but i feel it more
and overhead single arm dumbbell extensions
Bench dips, close-grips, dip machine are all equally great. Along with extensions the best IMO.
Skull crushers are an inferior version of extensions to behind the head. Trying a few grips will find something that is an improvement on a straight bar, which is hard on the wrists and doesn't allow the use of as much weight. Amongst the following, something better can be found: two hands around the end of a dumbbell, hammer grip barbell, E-Z curl bar or rope overhead cable extensions will work the tris at least as well.
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Bench dips, close-grips, dip machine are all equally great. Along with extensions the best IMO.
Skull crushers are an inferior version of extensions to behind the head. Trying a few grips will find something that is an improvement on a straight bar, which is hard on the wrists and doesn't allow the use of as much weight. Amongst the following, something better can be found: two hands around the end of a dumbbell, hammer grip barbell, E-Z curl bar or rope overhead cable extensions will work the tris at least as well.
i've done those on an incline bench and they were pretty awesome... i guess it's something i'll have to try again
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The absolutely best of all is a 15-30 degree decline, lowering the weight behind the head and below the bench for a stretch. Not only the best for size it doesn't hurt the elbows.
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The absolutely best of all is a 15-30 degree decline, lowering the weight behind the head and below the bench for a stretch. Not only the best for size it doesn't hurt the elbows.
can i still use the straight bar? the DB is not comfortable because i have to use a big one and i smack myself in the head
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Theory is one thing, but very clearly certain exercises emphasize certain parts of muscles, there's no doubt. Every so often someone will claim that due to anatomy that isn't possible, yet it happens. ;)
Thank you!
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Charles Glass ;D
A genetic freak with some medical help.
Show me the innerpecs.
Fibers from left to right, who all contract or relax at once. Do you really want to claim that you can contract the rightpart more that the middle or leftside. Really? Don't believe all those so-called guru's.
(http://www.docmartin.at/Unfallchirurgie/Schulter/pectoralis.jpg)
The pecs along the sternum, are what are known as inner part of the chest, or pec muscles. I'm looking right at them on your little picture, I don't know why it is so hard to see!
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can i still use the straight bar? the DB is not comfortable because i have to use a big one and i smack myself in the head
If you lower behind the head and off the end of the bench, any of them work. I used to use a straight bar for a long time but those other ways feel better, and more weight can be used.
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If you lower behind the head and off the end of the bench, any of them work. I used to use a straight bar for a long time but those other ways feel better, and more weight can be used.
i agree about comfort... but i find that the straight bar stresses the triceps more...maybe it's just me .... i mean i do straight barbell curls with an olympic bar... and i hate that shit too... hurts my damn wrists... but once again it feels better
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i like dips and weighted dips you work muscles you never new you had