Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: hifrommike on June 15, 2006, 05:44:39 AM
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http://www.femuscle.org/
See the editorial on the home page. They hates us.
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You lack discipline!!!
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"On the other side of the spectrum, unfortunately I see a need to speak out against those Message Boards and Forums, who would consciously or not, approve of, or allow its members to constantly spew vile messages of hate and disrespect towards women athletes.
Unfortunately, one of the biggest and most well known message board, Getbig, in my opinion, falls into this category. As a previous member, I found the amount of mean spirited, negative, and hate driven posts against female and male athletes to be so overwhelming, that I have asked to be removed from it's data base as I refuse to post there any longer. Getbig has gotten out of control, and the veiled attempt by the owner to rectify the situation can not be taken seriously as it appears that some of their own Moderators, by their own inaction alone, appear to not only support but in fact perpetuate the disgraceful, mean spirited, demeaning, and down right libelous remarks posted by certain members. Opinions are one thing, but women bashing and slander seem to be a favorite past time and the norm there.
I am therefore appealing to you readers and calling for a boycott of Getbig and any other forums that disparage women. I am asking that all women athletes and their supporters and fans boycott such forums until such time as they clean up their act and discipline/ban any members that continue such behavior.
There is a choice! There are other Message Boards and Forums on the Internet where this type of mean spirited behavior doesn't exist and/or is not tolerated. "Women Friendly" boards allow the women athletes, their friends and fans, to enjoy free exchange of ideas and opinions, both possitive and negative, without resorting to "low life" comments. A few that I highly recommend are: MuscleGayhem, GeneX, and Tre' Scott's FemFlex forum for women."
Well isnt that special .... ::) ::) ::)
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"constantly spew vile messages of hate and disrespect towards women athletes."
Women?
Athletes?
Persons who's on male hormone therapy are definitely not 100% women.
For more info: http://www.isna.org/ ;)
http://web.mit.edu/hudson/www/terminology.html (discusses some of the hormones which these persons are on)
YIP
Zack
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"On the other side of the spectrum, unfortunately I see a need to speak out against those Message Boards and Forums, who would consciously or not, approve of, or allow its members to constantly spew vile messages of hate and disrespect towards women athletes.
Unfortunately, one of the biggest and most well known message board, Getbig, in my opinion, falls into this category. As a previous member, I found the amount of mean spirited, negative, and hate driven posts against female and male athletes to be so overwhelming, that I have asked to be removed from it's data base as I refuse to post there any longer. Getbig has gotten out of control, and the veiled attempt by the owner to rectify the situation can not be taken seriously as it appears that some of their own Moderators, by their own inaction alone, appear to not only support but in fact perpetuate the disgraceful, mean spirited, demeaning, and down right libelous remarks posted by certain members. Opinions are one thing, but women bashing and slander seem to be a favorite past time and the norm there.
I am therefore appealing to you readers and calling for a boycott of Getbig and any other forums that disparage women. I am asking that all women athletes and their supporters and fans boycott such forums until such time as they clean up their act and discipline/ban any members that continue such behavior.
There is a choice! There are other Message Boards and Forums on the Internet where this type of mean spirited behavior doesn't exist and/or is not tolerated. "Women Friendly" boards allow the women athletes, their friends and fans, to enjoy free exchange of ideas and opinions, both possitive and negative, without resorting to "low life" comments. A few that I highly recommend are: MuscleGayhem, GeneX, and Tre' Scott's FemFlex forum for women."
Well isn't that special .... ::) ::) ::)
Nope.... That's convenient!!!
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Come on guys, be fair. We should endorse women wanting to become men.
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If you watch Pumping Iron 2 the Women, you can see where thier sport went down hill...After Mr. Francis got on stage and made Women BB turn into (IMHO) a freakshow..I wish Figure models were the Ms. Olympias and not the scarecrow face things they got up there...all respect, do what you want to do , but dont put dog pooh on your head and call your hat the shit!! ..nah mean...
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My opinion is that Corey Everson was the top of the spike in WBB after that its downtown and no hope of ever regaining its respect back...
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"On the other side of the spectrum, unfortunately I see a need to speak out against those Message Boards and Forums, who would consciously or not, approve of, or allow its members to constantly spew vile messages of hate and disrespect towards women athletes.
Unfortunately, one of the biggest and most well known message board, Getbig, in my opinion, falls into this category. As a previous member, I found the amount of mean spirited, negative, and hate driven posts against female and male athletes to be so overwhelming, that I have asked to be removed from it's data base as I refuse to post there any longer. Getbig has gotten out of control, and the veiled attempt by the owner to rectify the situation can not be taken seriously as it appears that some of their own Moderators, by their own inaction alone, appear to not only support but in fact perpetuate the disgraceful, mean spirited, demeaning, and down right libelous remarks posted by certain members. Opinions are one thing, but women bashing and slander seem to be a favorite past time and the norm there.
I am therefore appealing to you readers and calling for a boycott of Getbig and any other forums that disparage women. I am asking that all women athletes and their supporters and fans boycott such forums until such time as they clean up their act and discipline/ban any members that continue such behavior.
There is a choice! There are other Message Boards and Forums on the Internet where this type of mean spirited behavior doesn't exist and/or is not tolerated. "Women Friendly" boards allow the women athletes, their friends and fans, to enjoy free exchange of ideas and opinions, both possitive and negative, without resorting to "low life" comments. A few that I highly recommend are: MuscleGayhem, GeneX, and Tre' Scott's FemFlex forum for women."
Well isnt that special .... ::) ::) ::)
Well written (sort off) but poorly thought out and naive/disingenuous. I am proud to call Get Big home. Keep up the good work lads. :)
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My opinion is that Corey Everson was the top of the spike in WBB after that its downtown and no hope of ever regaining its respect back...
Totally agree.
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Cory Everson is the broad who almost beat up JCVD in that twin movie right? she was hot in her day.
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Winstrol is an odd drug.
Some years, I have easy access to the Zambon ampules, which are my favorite or the Denkall Stanzolic. Other years, all I can get are the tablets, traditionally the pink or white ones.
The quirk about this anabolic is that EVERYBODY wants it. Every time beach season rolls around, I am sure this stuff literally FLIES off the dealer's shelves? I actually, don't like it, but resign myself to using it when I have to. Primo is a better choice, with less side effects like the acne, and is safer on the system.
Winstrol is harsh for me, so I use it sparingly, normally only precontest. But the rule for contest prep is: you don't do what you want, you don't do what you like, you do what is required.
NPC CHicka
I am with npcchicka here. I have used both oral and injectable winny and in very short cycles. When I used winny oral only I used 6-20mg per day in a 6 week cycle and after the first time I noticed my voice had changed just a little and after the 2nd time the hair started growing in my face (not a lot but enough for me to notice). Since then I have used winny in injectable form but mixed with something else often primo injectable. That has worked well for me, still short courses and not a lot of sides. I am sure that if you expect a little side effect then you will not be surprised and you can keep it under control. I also think you are over training and not eating enough calories, loosen your diet a little when you are coming towards using ASS if you choose to, it will not make you fat just put some muscle on. Since you are having trouble getting more muscle on your body it's time to try something else (not just believe that the steroids will do it for you). It still takes a lot of planning, training resting and eating. Well good luck whatever you do.
Hanne
IMO...it truly depends on your body...I use Winny in conjunction with other things like Eq, primo etc. and I have never had a problem with acne however....I have a few friends who can't touch winny without having a serious 'break-out'...trial and error is the only way to really find out what you are sensitive to....I would recommend Zambon amps....UpJohn makes vet winny but it is a little dirty....it has better potential for causing skin problems...
as far as orals are concerned, there are equal risks of getting acne with them or injectable...but...if they are mixed with test or d-bol the chances of getting acne are much greater...they're androgenic...need I say more...
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FLEXIN' GIRL * * *
Monster delusional persons.
YIP
Zack
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"constantly spew vile messages of hate and disrespect towards women athletes."
Women?
Athletes?
Persons who's on male hormone therapy are definitely not 100% women.
For more info: http://www.isna.org/ ;)
http://web.mit.edu/hudson/www/terminology.html (discusses some of the hormones which these persons are on)
YIP
Zack
Hedhog...lol you're my man. Why is this lady specifically attacking getbig. she said she used to be a member, well, maybe she needs to get her act straight
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Haha whats next? Men who inject estrogen into there bodys demanding nobody call them she males? Oh man these girls/guys. We want respect (in his her/deep voice). We are normal people! ( As she/him states 5 O'Clock shadow poking through her/his square jaw line. What we do is no different than what male BB do! (He/she states forgeting it would be the same as men injecting estrogen and taking on female characteristics......... ..)
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You guys are just blind. What's not feminine about female BB ;D
(http://www.geocities.com/soikabb/ChristineEnvall01.jpeg)
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Dorks....
Cory gave birth to Kim. Cory was straight up and down vs a woman with nice hips and flow into her waistline like below. Shape should be scored in the pros! Gear is bad enough for the men... so you know it has to go for the women. Hardness should cause a deduction where as points for a softer look.
(http://www.anjalanger.com/Photos/BobKennedy/LasVegas/LasVegas-large/LV1007.jpg)
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While I appreciate the endorsement, mine is not exactly an active forum.
I will, however, give high marks to the GeneX and Muscle Mayhem forums.
But, I will not participate in or suggest a boycott of GetBig...this place is far more good than evil. I love this message board community, and the women bodybuilders get a *lot* of airtime/publicity here.
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Anja Langer...the most perfect physique specimen who ever lived.
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Funny thing is this dude girl whatever calling for a boycott is jut drawing more attention to the site. I predict at least 100 new members.
And as for the tranny thing I did not mean women who are hermaphrodites and change genders should be ridiculed or whatever situation you may have with that type issue. But female BB inject male hormones into there bodies and basically turn into freaks. Sorry just the truth!
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I just checked out the website, that is the cheapest site I've ever seen. They are in dier need of a 240 $300 special.
Could this be a former "Athlete of the Month"?
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The counterpoint is a woman without Langer structure would lose out. Well... guys like Shawn and Richard lose out against Ronnie and Dorian. The problem starts with the judging. If Langer had knocked off Cory in 1985 and held on for 6-7 yrs... then there may have been a change. Langer problem was she couldnt get hard which would be a bonuses... given the state of women's bbing.
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I just checked out the website, that is the cheapest site I've ever seen. They are in dier need of a 240 $300 special.
Could this be a former "Athlete of the Month"?
That picture just scared the crap out of me! Christ! I mean literally! It looks like an evil, possessed, demon woman from like... Orian 5 "the demon planet" closed off from the civilized universe for over 12,000 years now.
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Ohh F8ck that "chick" looks like shes straight out of the movie "Clan of the Cave Bear"
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And they wonder why we bash them, when they look so juiced up
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1988 was the year that Anja really should've won the title and that would've changed the entire course of women's bobybuilding history.
They screwed up again in 1996 when Natalia Murnikoviene should've been the winner.
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Have you ever taken the time to consider that they're people who, for the most part, have done nothing to you?
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Have you ever taken the time to consider that they're people who, for the most part, have done nothing to you?
They hurt me eyes :-\
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Have you ever taken the time to consider that they're people who, for the most part, have done nothing to you?
They're people who do this to themselves, that post their pics and (sometimes) ask for opinions and/or to be judged. I don't personally have anything against them, to each their own. But when pics are posted up for critique, what do they honestly expect? guys to be saying stuff like 'nice pecs' , 'great delt development' ?? come on...More so, they're people who do this to themselves because of insecurity, only to realize after a few cycles that all the muscle wasn't worth what it ended up doing to their faces, sexual organs, voice, etc.
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They hurt me eyes :-\
Most excellent ;D
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What a joke, those things have more test in their systems than most 18 year old boys.... How they consider them still female is beyond me.
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"On the other side of the spectrum, unfortunately I see a need to speak out against those Message Boards and Forums, who would consciously or not, approve of, or allow its members to constantly spew vile messages of hate and disrespect towards women athletes.
Unfortunately, one of the biggest and most well known message board, Getbig, in my opinion, falls into this category. As a previous member, I found the amount of mean spirited, negative, and hate driven posts against female and male athletes to be so overwhelming, that I have asked to be removed from it's data base as I refuse to post there any longer. Getbig has gotten out of control, and the veiled attempt by the owner to rectify the situation can not be taken seriously as it appears that some of their own Moderators, by their own inaction alone, appear to not only support but in fact perpetuate the disgraceful, mean spirited, demeaning, and down right libelous remarks posted by certain members. Opinions are one thing, but women bashing and slander seem to be a favorite past time and the norm there.
I am therefore appealing to you readers and calling for a boycott of Getbig and any other forums that disparage women. I am asking that all women athletes and their supporters and fans boycott such forums until such time as they clean up their act and discipline/ban any members that continue such behavior.
There is a choice! There are other Message Boards and Forums on the Internet where this type of mean spirited behavior doesn't exist and/or is not tolerated. "Women Friendly" boards allow the women athletes, their friends and fans, to enjoy free exchange of ideas and opinions, both possitive and negative, without resorting to "low life" comments. A few that I highly recommend are: MuscleGayhem, GeneX, and Tre' Scott's FemFlex forum for women."
you may not agree with it but NOTHING written here is untrue, yall know that there are some mean ass, cruel SOBS on getbig.
That said, I like it here! ;D
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At what point in a life of a woman do they look in the mirror and say to themself: Hey...I really fucked myself up...
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If a man cuts off his genitals, gets breast implants, and shoots himself full of estrogen, then yeah people are gonna call him feminine. A woman who takes more AAS than you could fit in a football stadium, gets a deep voice, 5 o'clock shadow, and muscles that would fill out a man's XXL shirt, people are gonna call it masculine.
They weren't born freaks of nature, they chose to become them. Recognizing that isn't really bashing.
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HOW ABOUT THESE, BOYS
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Have you ever taken the time to consider that they're people who, for the most part, have done nothing to you?
ok were not sending them to death camps----were just saying some-like that "woman"-look like nethandreals----I think thats our right--I mean it is an aspect of BB
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I just pray these ladies don't find out about synthol - that would look even more fucked up
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You don't have to financially support female bodybuiding, and you don't have to find its practitioners physically attractive. [Though to constantly shriek about how repulsed you are is a juvenile and cowardly way of dumping your own stigmatization onto an even more unpopular group.] But if you don't respect their muscular development - achieved in the face of daunting cultural and genetic handicaps that would take most of you out of the running in record time - I think you're a fool and a bigot.
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You don't have to financially support female bodybuiding, and you don't have to find its practitioners physically attractive. [Though to constantly shriek about how repulsed you are is a juvenile and cowardly way of dumping your own stigmatization onto an even more unpopular group.] But if you don't respect their muscular development - achieved in the face of daunting cultural and genetic handicaps that would take most of you out of the running in record time - I think you're a fool and a bigot.
Perfectly stated.
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You don't have to financially support female bodybuiding, and you don't have to find its practitioners physically attractive. [Though to constantly shriek about how repulsed you are is a juvenile and cowardly way of dumping your own stigmatization onto an even more unpopular group.] But if you don't respect their muscular development - achieved in the face of daunting cultural and genetic handicaps that would take most of you out of the running in record time - I think you're a fool and a bigot.
Take away the hormones and they wouldn't get anywhere near that development. Yes the same could be said for ifbb pros, but for WOMEN it is even more true.
I don't respect what they've done to themselves at all, they are nothing but sideshow freaks.
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Have you ever taken the time to consider that they're people who, for the most part, have done nothing to you?
...but pollute the world with their existence. Monster waste of space.
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Perfectly stated.
Tre I believe it was you that told me that edumucated peoples aren't welcome around these here parts. ;) Now, I don't find women that look this attractive, but, asking people to not rag on them on this board is really an exercise in futility.
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You don't have to financially support female bodybuiding, and you don't have to find its practitioners physically attractive. [Though to constantly shriek about how repulsed you are is a juvenile and cowardly way of dumping your own stigmatization onto an even more unpopular group.] But if you don't respect their muscular development - achieved in the face of daunting cultural and genetic handicaps that would take most of you out of the running in record time - I think you're a fool and a bigot.
I don't see how its an act of bigotry to take a stance against females putting their bodies on male hormone therapy.
Those who are supportive of these persons, are the true offenders.
The schmoes who supplies hormones, money and support for monster she-males, these shady characters should ask themselves why any woman should be enticed into making these permanent changes to their bodies?
YIP
Zack
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I don't see how its an act of bigotry to take a stance against females putting their bodies on male hormone therapy.
You're not an idiot. You know the bigotry is in how those opinions are expressed. And these guys aren't exactly 'taking a stance' (oh, you make it sound so noble)...they're merely going along with the pack.
Those who are supportive of these persons, are the true offenders.
The schmoes who supplies hormones, money and support for monster she-males, these shady characters should ask themselves why any woman should be enticed into making these permanent changes to their bodies?
The changes they make to their bodies don't harm me in any way. Their bodies, their choices...
That they've chosen to enhance their bodies to hyper-muscular levels is something I choose to celebrate as an element of their personhood.
It's fine that a lot of people don't like the choices that they made, but it's not ok to dehumanize them.
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"personhood" BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!
ranking right up there with "life partner" and such... oh no, here it comes again, snicker... snicker,
BWAAAAHH HAAA HAA HAAA!!!!!! Damn that and special Ed's new thread about 240 on the "Oz" t.v. show are the best laughs of the day!!
I'm here to have fun, too, but there's nothing wrong with making an effort to help some of you to become better people.
It's the latent christian in me, I suppose.
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That's all well and good; my earlier post sums up my position.
Encouraging women to roid themselves out isn't on my list of philanthropic duties ;D
Not hatin', just observin' 8)
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i miss sarah dunlap posting here
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You're not an idiot. You know the bigotry is in how those opinions are expressed. And these guys aren't exactly 'taking a stance' (oh, you make it sound so noble)...they're merely going along with the pack.
The changes they make to their bodies don't harm me in any way. Their bodies, their choices...
That they've chosen to enhance their bodies to hyper-muscular levels is something I choose to celebrate as an element of their personhood.
It's fine that a lot of people don't like the choices that they made, but it's not ok to dehumanize them.
Shit... even Tre's not calling them women! If it's not any clearer than that then... Stevie Wonder just called...
he wants his eyes back!
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Shit... even Tre's not calling them women! If it's not any clearer than that then... Stevie Wonder just called...
he wants his eyes back!
true, and "enhance" is also a debatable word to use as well ;)
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George can say what he wants - is he calling attention to his site, but not here. This will be the only thread on it and his site. Now as for George and myself, I have been debating him via email, and even invited him to air his views, but he declined. That is his opinion. Truth is, female bodybuilding, which the extent that is has gone, had created a major problem for the sport. No one wants to sponsor a female bodybuilding show in the state it is in. Without sponsorship money, there is no contest. We have seen this by the lack of pro shows, by the lack of excitement, and by the rise in what I call creatine discussions, even resorting to malicious bashing, of female bodybuilder going over the edge, as we all say it.
Funny thing is, the problem stem not by many in our industry agreeing with me and others, but by how you say it. 95% of the people agree that female bodybuilding needs help fast, that the judges and the competitors need to the judged by symmetry and physique, not my muscularity.
Now, I am not against female bodybuilding at all, in fact, if we can get back to the golden ages, it would be great. My favorite competitor who is coming back to compete is Cathy LeFrancois. She looked just great at the Arnold Classic when she won the lightweight division, not too much muscularity, her face was nice and people raved about her appearance.
However, malicious bashing is over with, even on female bodybuilders. But I have talked to a lot of them, and they want things to be changed, but are at a loss on how to change it.
If there were enough female bodybuilders who really wanted to try and change something, some ways, perhaps something can be done. But there isn't. They are all afraid to speak up when the time comes. How many motions at an IFBB meeting. Zero? Zero! No one bothered to try and change something.
If female bodybuilding wants a voice, email me. Get a female bodybuidler to mod a board, post positive issues, debate the issues, and give some positive into the life of a female bodybuilder. I would be more than willing to help. But it is work...
As for George - can't he get along with anyone?
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Hugepecs, all those photos are photoshopped.
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Most of these women, weren't "lookers" to begin with - so the extra muscle doesn't really make a difference.
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Do female bodybuilders think they look attractive to the general male populace?
Given the girly screams of disgust they are constantly hearing from men like you, almost assuredly not. So their persistence in achieving the look they want for their bodies is compelling evidence that they also don't care.
And for what it's worth, Chief, most women find male bodybuilders disgusting too.
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I grew up playin with He Man action figures and reading comic books, I thought that all guys were suppose to look like that... :-[ :-[ :-[
Whereas strong women like She Hulk still looked normal.. :-\ :-\
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Whereas strong women like She Hulk still looked normal..
Fug that soft-core She Hulk shit. This is what she's supposed to look like.
(http://www.superherotimes.com/news/images/PC-SheHulkState.JPG)
She could dumbbell press Bob Chick with one hand and Ronnie with the other. Hoo yah!
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In principle, as a woman I feel that the female bodybuilders should be afforded the same respect that the males are. I personally like female bodybuilding and follow it.
It is all well and good to complain about how rude you guys are on here, but how about taking a step back and facing reality. Female bodybuilding is dying off because of the androgens.
I think we as women in the sport need to curb the use. There are plenty of female bodybuilders out there who are muscular, attractive and feminine...girls with muscles. They are eclipsed by the masculinized ones though. Like "Supersize She" show, I loved it, but I heard so many people say it was nasty, or genuinely wondering if she was a tranny.
I truly would like to see the judging criteria as well as the bodybuilders themselves favor the non-virilized look. The contests, sponsorships, prize money and exposure for female bb is way down. I've said it before, sure we as women have the right to use if we want. But if we do, we have to face reality with that most people will think it's nasty. Right or wrong, that's how it goes. I wish we would take out head out the clouds and face facts, a heavily virilized look is not marketable.
I await the pm's from some nutter telling me how I betrayed the gender, as I usually get when I post on this subject ::)
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(http://www.dcmstudiosonline.com/comics/dyna/01/dyna01_012a.jpg)
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In principle, as a woman I feel that the female bodybuilders should be afforded the same respect that the males are. I personally like female bodybuilding and follow it.
It is all well and good to complain about how rude you guys are on here, but how about taking a step back and facing reality. Female bodybuilding is dying off because of the androgens.
I think we as women in the sport need to curb the use. There are plenty of female bodybuilders out there who are muscular, attractive and feminine...girls with muscles. They are eclipsed by the masculinized ones though. Like "Supersize She" show, I loved it, but I heard so many people say it was nasty, or genuinely wondering if she was a tranny.
I truly would like to see the judging criteria as well as the bodybuilders themselves favor the non-virilized look. The contests, sponsorships, prize money and exposure for female bb is way down. I've said it before, sure we as women have the right to use if we want. But if we do, we have to face reality with that most people will think it's nasty. Right or wrong, that's how it goes. I wish we would take out head out the clouds and face facts, a heavily virilized look is not marketable.
I await the pm's from some nutter telling me how I betrayed the gender, as I usually get when I post on this subject ::)
The Audience just want to see Female bodybuilding back on a better marketing level. It seems like Nobody wants to tone down their physique, and year after year, their fan base is decreasing dramatically. If and only if female bodybuilding could go back to the 80's Physique..Ummm.. I wonder in what Level their sport would be today. This remain to be seen
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...their fan base is decreasing dramatically.
That's not true.
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That they've chosen to enhance their bodies to hyper-muscular levels is something I choose to celebrate as an element of their personhood.
How many of these bodybuilders do you think are aware of what changes will happen to their body?
A lot of the changes are slowly too. So how many young girls have gone into male hormone usage without real knowledge of what they would look and sound like ten years later?
How many of these "superstars" would do this journey again, if they were back young an unvirilized?
I'm of course not singling you out. But perhaps you could give me an insight in how the hardcore muscle goddess worshippers reason. What considerations do they give to the health of these persons?
YIP
Zack
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That's not true.
I dont have a problem with Female bodybuilders at all, it's just that, they also have to make a living doing what they love, but if it's not getting them no where, then, something gotta be done about it. If I remember well, there was a good reason why Kim Cheveski stop competing all together, she was great, but if the sport were alive, I'm sure she would have had her 8th or 9th sandow by now.
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how many pro female bodybulding shows were there this year. Like 1 at the arnold. I would say the sport is decreasing.
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here was a good reason why Kim Cheveski stop competing all together, she was great, but if the sport were alive, I'm sure she would have had her 8th or 9th sandow by now.
Yeah, Kim was amazing.
(http://www.bodybuilders.com/kim4.jpg)
(http://www.bodybuildingfanatic.com/kimchizevsky.jpg)
(http://www.frsa.com/pixfemuscle/kimc.jpg)
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How many of these bodybuilders do you think are aware of what changes will happen to their body?
A lot of the changes are slowly too. So how many young girls have gone into male hormone usage without real knowledge of what they would look and sound like ten years later?
How many of these "superstars" would do this journey again, if they were back young an unvirilized?
These are completely legitimate questions, but we cannot presume that all or even a majority of them - and yes, we're talking about the bodybuilders who do *not* look like the girl-next-door - were totally naïve about the potential side effects when they began their transformations.
I'm of course not singling you out. But perhaps you could give me an insight in how the hardcore muscle goddess worshippers reason. What considerations do they give to the health of these persons?
The hardcore schmoes are very simple animals - they want what they want and they want it now. Whether they have money and can pay for it or whether they're just freeloaders, it doesn't matter, they think pretty much the same..."satisfy my craving, Musclewoman".
While there may be some concern for the health of the women they objectify so much, the schmoes' primary motives are to get what *they* want from the exchange. The 'exchanges' can be personal (such as a muscle worship or wrestling session), semi-personal (a webcam session or internet chat), or non-personal (viewing pictures and videos). As long as the schmoe gets what he wants, he's happy and will return.
I take a personal interest in many of the women I work with, but at the end of the day, each is responsible for her choices. Granted, the women cannot control how we will choose to react to them, but my only issue is with those who continuously treat women bodybuilders as if they are sub-human.
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But perhaps you could give me an insight in how the hardcore muscle goddess worshippers reason. What considerations do they give to the health of these persons?
It's a shitty novel, so don't pay anything to check it out. But Chemical Pink by Kate Arnoldi gives an accurately creepy portrayal of that whole scene.
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Boycott GetBig? HA! I don't think so. 8)
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Nobody wants to see it. If female bodybuilders want their "sport" to live, they can come up with the damn money themselves and quit their bitching.
The majority of competitors in the NPC and IFBB are female.
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How many of these bodybuilders do you think are aware of what changes will happen to their body?
A lot of the changes are slowly too. So how many young girls have gone into male hormone usage without real knowledge of what they would look and sound like ten years later?
How many of these "superstars" would do this journey again, if they were back young an unvirilized?
I'm of course not singling you out. But perhaps you could give me an insight in how the hardcore muscle goddess worshippers reason. What considerations do they give to the health of these persons?
YIP
Zack
Also, you will never imagine how groth hormone can damage the brain s functions in
the long term.
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Also, you will never imagine how groth hormone can damage the brain s functions in
the long term.
Many of the people who get into substance use/abuse don't care about the long term effects...they want the maximum benefits and they want them now. They'll worry about 'later' when the time comes.
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Many of the people who get into substance use/abuse don't care about the long term effects...they want the maximum benefits and they want them now. They'll worry about 'later' when the time comes.
Yes, I guess you are true, when it s too late to worry.
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Everyone loves figure girls.
As for female bodybuilders, there is no money in that.
Some in this industry really need to stop thinking it is your right to have others subsidize your hobbies.
Every promoter loves figure girls, you are 100% correct.
As for female bodybuilders, they earn more than figure competitors.
To suggest that the women - collectively - don't pull their weight in the industry is just plain nonsense.
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"On the other side of the spectrum, unfortunately I see a need to speak out against those Message Boards and Forums, who would consciously or not, approve of, or allow its members to constantly spew vile messages of hate and disrespect towards women athletes.
Unfortunately, one of the biggest and most well known message board, Getbig, in my opinion, falls into this category. As a previous member, I found the amount of mean spirited, negative, and hate driven posts against female and male athletes to be so overwhelming, that I have asked to be removed from it's data base as I refuse to post there any longer. Getbig has gotten out of control, and the veiled attempt by the owner to rectify the situation can not be taken seriously as it appears that some of their own Moderators, by their own inaction alone, appear to not only support but in fact perpetuate the disgraceful, mean spirited, demeaning, and down right libelous remarks posted by certain members. Opinions are one thing, but women bashing and slander seem to be a favorite past time and the norm there.
I am therefore appealing to you readers and calling for a boycott of Getbig and any other forums that disparage women. I am asking that all women athletes and their supporters and fans boycott such forums until such time as they clean up their act and discipline/ban any members that continue such behavior.
There is a choice! There are other Message Boards and Forums on the Internet where this type of mean spirited behavior doesn't exist and/or is not tolerated. "Women Friendly" boards allow the women athletes, their friends and fans, to enjoy free exchange of ideas and opinions, both possitive and negative, without resorting to "low life" comments. A few that I highly recommend are: MuscleGayhem, GeneX, and Tre' Scott's FemFlex forum for women."
Well isnt that special .... ::) ::) ::)
Are they still considered women athletes if their test levels are higher then mine?
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so do any female bodybuilders use synthol?
a woman with AAS pumped in her doesnt seem any different than a pre-op transexual (biologically, anyway) - not a flame, just reiterating the thought
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Unless you can show me figures, I think this quote is plain nonsense. :-\
The cost of an NPC annual membership is the same for both men and women.
The cost of entry fees are the same for both men and women.
There are more women competing than men.
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Women's bodybuilding is fucked up in the same damn way men's bodybuilding is, essentially. You've got guys with NO genetics cranked to the gills because they don't have the classic structure to win. Problem is you can't have a big money making enterprise if you don't have a LOT of competitors....drugs gives the common guy that edge!...and with the women, it was the same thing...don't have structure?...get AS BIG AS you can win shows!...or get as ripped as a guy and essentially LOOK like a man and win shows!
Ya see what I'm getting at? I just watched a regional show not long ago and the winner was, by his admission, a natural trainer. This guy had the genetics I haven't seen in four years of watching these shows, but he wiped the stage of the roiders who didn't have those great genes!..he was a light middle weight and destroyed the competition. But how do you have a sport when one guy can come along and hammer everybody? You get 4 Mr O competitors like there was in the 70s!
But I don't have the answers....womens pro bodybuilding would be doing great if you had women like Cory Everson representing...but then how do you explain the dillemma of Bev Francis?...she was just a powerful woman who was BIG, drugs or without....she didn't win back when, and the sport continued to grow. Nothing against Bev, but the thing is that you shouldn't win because you have a big, ripped physique....in that way, it becomes a beauty show...whats the problem with that? It's about having a muscular developed ATTRACTIVE body. And that's how you get public acceptance and a sport that grows..not by rewarding ugly physiques, which is what's going on right now, full of drugs and unnatural looking women.
Same thing goes for mens bodybuilding. Reward the physiques that LOOK GOOD! Shawn Ray never won the Mr O when he was in his prime....what a shame! And now we're stuck with what we've got....freaks. NO way to grow the sport.
If you want bodybuilding to stay a niche weirdo sport, then fight for things to stay the way they are. It's doing a fine job of that by itself, by the way.
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You don't have to financially support female bodybuiding, and you don't have to find its practitioners physically attractive. [Though to constantly shriek about how repulsed you are is a juvenile and cowardly way of dumping your own stigmatization onto an even more unpopular group.] But if you don't respect their muscular development - achieved in the face of daunting cultural and genetic handicaps that would take most of you out of the running in record time - I think you're a fool and a bigot.
You know I was going to seriously reply to you.
But then I remembered that I didn't care what you thought of me.
I mean which part of the comments are not true? That they don't have enlarged clits or don't look like men? People are only saying what they perceive. This is just a case of "the truth hurts".
Its like I phrased it a long time ago in mindspin's legendary thread. If we save one girl from delusion and a manface we've done a good job.
Why would we ever start talking about how impressive their gains are, many of them are but that is not constructive. They are gains at a cost and we do not respect the cost ::) Whether people are impressed by their mass is really completely irrelevant. They certainly will not be referencing this any time soon.
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Ron, careful sport, he's called a boycott. This could have dire consequences on the board!
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Geroge has a right to speak his mind - that is what is great about Getbig and the boards, as long as it is no malicious bashing. He is cool about me posting his emails to me - I asked him if it was ok - so here are some more of them... I am all for discussion and debate on female bodybuilding, perhaps the sport will change back to symmetry and physique rather than just muscularity.
----------------
As I told you in my last email...if you ever learn one thing about me... it's that I don't lie. That being said, I just got an email from one of your members... who does agree with me... and he included your post... I guess it must
have been from yesterday or today.... You're almost there Ron.... The issue isn't really about opinions pro or con...the issues is how those opinions are expressed. Calling a female bodybuilder a tranny?...come on... you know thats bs.... it's a stereotype... and then someone posts pictures that were clearly morphed to prove a point?.... that's what I mean... I have no problem with differing opinions.... none whatsoever....in fact criticizm may be a good thing...but like I said before... if done responsibly...and not using low life comments....
Actually Ron, I do get along with a lot of people...and I'm in contact with many pros and amateur bodybuilders....male and female...loyalty, trust and friendship are hard things to just give away... I don't... not to sound high and mighty... you or people in general have to earn them from me. I'm not a young guy...I'm almost
55 so I'm not some highschool kid whose wet behind the ears.
I explained to you that I too don't really like the idea of the women jucing beyond recognition... but the reality is... just like it is with the men... they feel they have to in order to compete/win.... yes... it's wrong... for both
sexes....and in my opinion...it's cheating!...but until the federation judges get it...until they start awarding the win to athletes with asthetics, symetry and conditioning rather than monster hugeness.... nothing will change.... and the monster men and women will keep on coming...
And the reason I declined to be "interviewed" is that I know you and Issac are working together....but I won't have anything to do with Isaac. I have my reasons...and they really don't involve anyone else but he and I. I see that you mentioned the bashing was over... I take it you meant you will start to delete the malicious posts?....if so...I appplaude you...but...I have to be honest with you...I'm going to take the wait and see stance...
I wouldn't say anything in an email that I wouldn't say in public unless it were a protected conversation...i.e. I was asked specifically not to reveal the info from a protected source... like my source from the pecker meeting in which he stated..."those women will never be on my stage"...I believe I was the one who broke that story...and it spread around the net.. However.when asked not to divulge information I always comply...that's the reason I'm trusted by most...
I know for a fact that Betty Pariso officially submitted it to Manion at the IFBB meeting... and not to Bob as the letter wasn't address to Bob it was addressed to Manion, IFBB, et al....and anyone saying that she didn't is a liar
plain and simple!
No woman I know of FBB or otherwise, would want to show up to a meeting called by the male rep.... especially since he was the one who had just trashed them publically in national print....As far as caring...you have a point. I've been saying it for years in several broadcast emails to the women that they have to stop the me... me... mentality and take on a we... we... mentality.... and just like the men... it never happens....
The Blame Game: The premise that the women have no one to blame but themselves is partially true. No one forces them at gunpoint to take enhancement substances (drugs/steroids,HGH...whatever). However, much of the blame falls directly on the shoulders of the federations and their judges.
A) for consistantly awarding higher placement to women with size over women with aesthetics, symetry, and
conditioning... B) for not using a consistant criteria to determine placement... C) for total disregard of the federations own mandate of 20% less muscularity... albeit that mandate is arbitrary at best... 20% less water?... 40% less weight?... D) the abolishment of weight classes....and lastly....politics...whi ch I see NO solution to.....
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As a ps to the previous post....you said the FBB's asked for zero changes?.. .wrong... What they asked for was justice... which fell on deaf ears and was swept under the rug....Just for your edification, I've included a copy
of the official complaint that was presented at the IFBB meeting....you be the judge... it used the IFBB's own rules and code's as a basis for the complaint.... so you see Ron.... they have every right to be pissed....
October 11, 2005: Betty Pariso, IFBB Women?s Athlete Representative
In regards to: Bob Cicherello, IFBB Mens?s Athlete Representive
Jim Manion
Chairman
IFBB Professional Division
P.O. Box 3224
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
USA 15230
Attention: IFBB Professional Committee Members:
As the IFBB Women?s Representative I, Betty Pariso, am filing an official complaint on behalf of the IFBB Professional women in response to Bob Cicherello?s comments in FLEX Magazine. We are exercising our right to file a complaint pursuant to the IFBB Constitution Article 5.1, number 14 which states an object of the IFBB is ?to discipline Members whose acts are judged contrary to the Constitution and Rules.?
Please note the following excerpt from the article in question featured in FLEX magazine (September 2005 pg. 55) by Julian Schmidt:
CHICK ON CHICKS
Cicherillo explains, "It has never been viable. Year after year, women's bodybuilding has consistently lost money. One year, the Ms Olympia sold 38 tickets... 38! So the fans have spoken: from a business perspective, it
doesn?t make sense, because it doesn?t survive; nor can it survive. "It?s a niche market, say its advocates. No, men?s bodybuilding has its niche market; women?s bodybuilding has no market; what little market it has
is made up of schmoes and fetishists.
Women's bodybuilding is an oxymoron. Nothing in the term or the concept matches up. Beautiful, sexy and muscular do not make a harmonious package. Notice the hopeless desperate trend: when women?s bodybuilding became bestial and alienated all interest, women?s fitness had to be created to fill the gap.
When that became too muscular and abandoned its audience, it had to be replaced with figure. What?s next, bikini contests?
"There is something to be said when Ms. Olympia herself, Lenda Murray - a lovely feminine lady - drops out of the sport because it has become ugly. Sure, they train hard, but they should be trying to become better women, not better men. End it, once and for all. It?s dragging down the entire sport."
Our complaint is supported in several areas of the IFBB 2005 Professional Rules and the IFBB Constitution Code of Ethics:
Article 14.5, Unsportsmanlike Conduct: an athlete cannot attack another athlete, judge or official, whether verbally or through malicious innuendo, gossip and/or rumor mongering,
Article 14.6, Public comments (including, but not limited to, those made via print publications, websites, public gatherings or other public forums) by registered IFBB athletes or officials made against other athletes or officials,
the IFBB or the sport in general, which are deemed personal, abusive, slanderous, libelous or prejudicial to the good image of the sport, are contrary to the IFBB Code of Ethics and will result in disciplinary measures
being taken by the Pro Division against the person responsible for the comments.
Athletes section # 6 of the IFBB 2005 Constitution Code of Ethics: athletes should ?assist the IFBB in the promotion of the sport by acting as a goodwill ambassador of the sport, promoting the sport in a positive manner, and protecting the good image and integrity of the sport and the IFBB.?
We respectfully request the Professional Committee take action as per Section 14.5 of the IFBB Professional Rules which state: ?If an athlete attacks another athlete, judge or official, whether verbally or through malicious
innuendo, gossip and/or rumor mongering, that athlete will be subject to a fine of US $10,000.00 and a one year suspension.
Respectfully,
Betty Pariso, IFBB Athlete Representative
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"constantly spew vile messages of hate and disrespect towards women athletes."
Women?
Athletes?
Persons who's on male hormone therapy are definitely not 100% women.
For more info: http://www.isna.org/ ;)
http://web.mit.edu/hudson/www/terminology.html (discusses some of the hormones which these persons are on)
YIP
Zack
HA HA HA! Even the moderator makes fun of female bodybuilders! They don't understand that, on the getbig.com boards, the moderators are some of us. The guys who are modertors here re the same who go fed up with the sick censorship on other boards. They seldom delete posts - except racist stuff, illegal pornogrphy and threats - because they know, from experience, wht it's like being on the other side, under the mercy of a nazi moderator. Right, Hedge? ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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I haven't followed the arguments here... but i must chime in...
This has to be the perfect mix of muscle & femininity.
http://tangelamorgan.com/
You may return to what you were doing.
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What George fails to recognise is that female bodybuilders who have adverse manface effects do like like transexuals. Honestly, I don't understand why he is bothering to fight this. As I said before, what this guy is fighting is people expressing their true opinion on things. He might not like the way some people say it but the fact of the matter is they do look like men/transexuals.
It is fine to stop people from saying Bob Chic had sex with kamali's wife because its just plain stupidity, its a baseless attack but if you post a picture of these girls people just react genuinely. They're not trolling, they are just saying what everybody is thinking. Sometimes it is cruel the way they express it but if there was not a shred of truth in what they were saying there wouldn't be anywhere near as much of a problem.
The problem is of course these girls are probably some really nice individuals who would be worth talking to and I'm sure George feels bad because it would be tough on them to hear this. If I personally knew a girl with a manface I'd feel bad for her having to read this too. I'd feel worse if she actually thought she didn't have a problem though.
Reminds me of the time that female bodybuilder was on whos line is it anyway. Really, that was a brutal example of how scorned these girls are. I don't know whether the individual who went on had any idea of the "vibe" that was being created using her but to me you really don't even need to outright say anything. Its just obvious.
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What George fails to recognise is that female bodybuilders who have adverse manface effects do like like transexuals. Honestly, I don't understand why he is bothering to fight this. As I said before, what this guy is fighting is people expressing their true opinion on things. He might not like the way some people say it but the fact of the matter is they do look like men/transexuals.
It is fine to stop people from saying Bob Chic had sex with kamali's wife because its just plain stupidity, its a baseless attack but if you post a picture of these girls people just react genuinely. They're not trolling, they are just saying what everybody is thinking. Sometimes it is cruel the way they express it but if there was not a shred of truth in what they were saying there wouldn't be anywhere near as much of a problem.
The problem is of course these girls are probably some really nice individuals who would be worth talking to and I'm sure George feels bad because it would be tough on them to hear this. If I personally knew a girl with a manface I'd feel bad for her having to read this too. I'd feel worse if she actually thought she didn't have a problem though.
Reminds me of the time that female bodybuilder was on whos line is it anyway. Really, that was a brutal example of how scorned these girls are. I don't know whether the individual who went on had any idea of the "vibe" that was being created using her but to me you really don't even need to outright say anything. Its just obvious.
Good Post Rocket.
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What George fails to recognise is that female bodybuilders who have adverse manface effects do like like transexuals. Honestly, I don't understand why he is bothering to fight this. As I said before, what this guy is fighting is people expressing their true opinion on things. He might not like the way some people say it but the fact of the matter is they do look like men/transexuals.
It is fine to stop people from saying Bob Chic had sex with kamali's wife because its just plain stupidity, its a baseless attack but if you post a picture of these girls people just react genuinely. They're not trolling, they are just saying what everybody is thinking. Sometimes it is cruel the way they express it but if there was not a shred of truth in what they were saying there wouldn't be anywhere near as much of a problem.
The problem is of course these girls are probably some really nice individuals who would be worth talking to and I'm sure George feels bad because it would be tough on them to hear this. If I personally knew a girl with a manface I'd feel bad for her having to read this too. I'd feel worse if she actually thought she didn't have a problem though.
Reminds me of the time that female bodybuilder was on whos line is it anyway. Really, that was a brutal example of how scorned these girls are. I don't know whether the individual who went on had any idea of the "vibe" that was being created using her but to me you really don't even need to outright say anything. Its just obvious.
Good post.
The question is if the schmoes who help feed these girls twisted self images really are the good guys in this instance?
I don't think there's any higher, noble cause behind the bashing of these persons. But at least those who bashes "female" bodybuilders aren't actively supporting bodies being virilized forever.
I doubt there are very few "female" bodybuilder who after reading Getbig thinks: "Yeah, I'm gonna up the dosages, so I can look real freaky".
The question is, can the same be said about the schmoe community? This George character needs to take a good look in the mirror and ask himself what the consequenses are for these persons, and if he really is in the right position to call ANYONE a destructive force to female bodybuilding.
If this George guy ever goes on here, he will notice that natural female bodybuilders and the likes of Rachel McLish are held in very high regard here. But perhaps George only wants his muscle mama pumped up on test and Winstrol?
YIP
Zack
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all I know is that will all the test flowing through these women, they must be savage horn-dogs :o ;D
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all I know is that will all the test flowing through these women, they must be savage horn-dogs :o ;D
HAAAYYY LLLUUUVVVERRRR >>>>>> chills up my spine<<<<<<<<
ewwwwww
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The girl in supersize she was beautiful before she went on the gear. Gorgeous face, toned, fit, sculpted body. Yep, i got a few good wanks out of her. But now..... I feel really sorry for her and hope she finds happiness doing something else. [i'd still shag her though]
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rocket, Zack - excellent posts.
Rachel McLish was a favourite of Bertil Fox and Berry DeMay also! They both disliked female bodybuilders. This leads me to assume they were healthy, straight males. :P Berry said (paraphrase) "I'll put it to you like this - if you wanted to know what I considered to be the ideal female body, I wouldn't pick up a bodybuilding magazine."
I don't think female bodybuilders have the slightest idea what femininity is.
...we gotta look a little further here too, dudes. What Berry says is the SAME for nearly ALL WOMEN!...if a woman wanted to know find what they consider the IDEAL male body, a bodybuilding magazine is the LAST place they'd look too. So the chicks and the guys don't have this ideal, it's an "ideal" that the industry has created for itself...it's just that men's bodybuilding have enough fans to justify the freako mass look. If the women had the same numbers for the amount of folks to make money off of like the men do, we wouldn't be having this discussion..MONEY talks!
Neither mens NOR womens bodybuilding display a form that is considered 'ideal' to MANY people. Everything that's been said here negatively, constructively or otherwise can be said about the guys too.
Chicks have schmoes? Men get the gays! It's simple, sex sells and BOTH sides take 'advantage' of this market. Johnny Jackson anybody?...but very FEW here have anything bad to say about Johnny for marketing himself to gays....but OH NO, a female bodybuilder posing for schmoes??!?!....hang her high! This is hypocritical.
In essence I believe female and male bodybuilding have the SAME problem. Judging! We reward ugly physiques. Until that changes, the sports won't grow. If you had girls who looked like Rachel McClish and Cory Everson you'd have a growing sport...but what happens when you get a better proportioned female body, but not as attractive in the face? Give the trophy to the ugly chick with the better body? YES, as long as the body doesn't look overly male! They've had NO problem using this against the best looking (facewise) girls in figure like Monica Brant...why couldn't they do it in bodybuilding? Sex sells, and female bodybuilding is sexy!...who can't agree that Cory and Rachel were great not just because of their bodies but they were SEXY women who looked like models?
And who cares if men's bodybuilding also appeals to women when you pick the aesthetic guys? Cause some guys who want MASS at all costs because that appeals to the non-genetic equipped gym rats out there who outnumber the genetic guys? It seems mens bodybuilding fans are either "women hating" or "afraid of appearing gay" depending on what they're looking at..who gives a rats ass? Bodybuilding will have a sexual component, always. I don't worry about gays in bodybuilding because if they were THAT important of a market you'd have the stage full of fruity looking dudes like Kenny Jones! And we don't see that.
AWARD aesthetic physiques on both sides of the sport, period. What's so hard about that? Change the damn judging criteria and stick to it, or be happy with the way things are.
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And the reason I declined to be "interviewed" is that I know you and Issac are working together....but I won't have anything to do with Isaac. I have my reasons...and they really don't involve anyone else but he and I. I see that you mentioned the bashing was over... I take it you meant you will start to delete the malicious posts?....if so...I appplaude you...but...I have to be honest with you...I'm going to take the wait and see stance...
Oh George - AKA "PICSMAN"... Check your inflated ego at the door. You're not going to do an interview because of one person, yet you claim to care about female bodybuilders? Hmmm...Yeah you're priorities are in line. Glad to see I still get under your skin though. I know you're on here reading this and will post on another board about it.
George has posted on here and had a meltdown after his photos received a seemingly less then positive response...
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=66731.25
hey guys...go f*ck yourselves....you've earned it....too bad this women put you to shame...you guys must really be pathetic losers to be intimidated by a female bodybuilder...lol...you pussys....don't worry...I won't post any more pics here....of anyone...including the figure/fitness chicks...so I guess you got what you wanted....but you know what....I don't give a rats a*ss....yeah yeah...I know...your pussy expression is comin up...melt down...blow me...now you can go nuthug some male bodybuilder...lol...path etic...
And he wonders why he doesn't receive any support. ??? Have a good weekend and good luck on your crusade George.
Isaac
The one George hates.
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Nice job Lift, I was just going to ask you what happened between you and that guy.
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...we gotta look a little further here too, dudes. What Berry says is the SAME for nearly ALL WOMEN!...if a woman wanted to know find what they consider the IDEAL male body, a bodybuilding magazine is the LAST place they'd look too. So the chicks and the guys don't have this ideal, it's an "ideal" that the industry has created for itself...it's just that men's bodybuilding have enough fans to justify the freako mass look. If the women had the same numbers for the amount of folks to make money off of like the men do, we wouldn't be having this discussion..MONEY talks!
Neither mens NOR womens bodybuilding display a form that is considered 'ideal' to MANY people. Everything that's been said here negatively, constructively or otherwise can be said about the guys too.
Chicks have schmoes? Men get the gays! It's simple, sex sells and BOTH sides take 'advantage' of this market. Johnny Jackson anybody?...but very FEW here have anything bad to say about Johnny for marketing himself to gays....but OH NO, a female bodybuilder posing for schmoes??!?!....hang her high! This is hypocritical.
In essence I believe female and male bodybuilding have the SAME problem. Judging! We reward ugly physiques. Until that changes, the sports won't grow. If you had girls who looked like Rachel McClish and Cory Everson you'd have a growing sport...but what happens when you get a better proportioned female body, but not as attractive in the face? Give the trophy to the ugly chick with the better body? YES, as long as the body doesn't look overly male! They've had NO problem using this against the best looking (facewise) girls in figure like Monica Brant...why couldn't they do it in bodybuilding? Sex sells, and female bodybuilding is sexy!...who can't agree that Cory and Rachel were great not just because of their bodies but they were SEXY women who looked like models?
And who cares if men's bodybuilding also appeals to women when you pick the aesthetic guys? Cause some guys who want MASS at all costs because that appeals to the non-genetic equipped gym rats out there who outnumber the genetic guys? It seems mens bodybuilding fans are either "women hating" or "afraid of appearing gay" depending on what they're looking at..who gives a rats ass? Bodybuilding will have a sexual component, always. I don't worry about gays in bodybuilding because if they were THAT important of a market you'd have the stage full of fruity looking dudes like Kenny Jones! And we don't see that.
AWARD aesthetic physiques on both sides of the sport, period. What's so hard about that? Change the damn judging criteria and stick to it, or be happy with the way things are.
But you're forgetting something: bodybuilding is MASCULINE. On a purely physiological level, the single trait which most distinguishes men from women is muscularity. Men are more muscular than women. Hence, bodybuilding, in the case of men, is simply an exaggeration of that which makes men manly.
Female bodybuilding is abnormal, in the sense that it is an enhncement of something women are supposed to not want for themselves, namely, big muscles. Dorian Ytes hitting a rear lat spread, or Ronnie hitting a front double biceps might be freakish and even gross - to those who are not bodybuilding fans - to look at, but at lest it's MANLY. Kim Chisevsky or Lenda Murray doing the same, conversely, is just shocking and repulsive to the Human eye, because it is unnatural. "Unnatural", in this case translating into "unwomanly".
You're right that many, many people are disgusted by the sight of male bodybuilders. But there are still enough people who find it interesting to justify it being a sanctioned sport. In the case of men, bodybuilding is a celebration of MASCULINITY, whereas in the case of women it's just an unnatural exercise in grossness. The interest in male bodybuilding might be compared to those magazines which displayes pics of women ith extremely large, deformed racks: it is large to the point of deformity, but there are still tons of men attracted to it because it's an exaggeration of FEMININITY :o ;D. So, just like masculinity to an exteme degree might be freakish but also interesting, so is extreme feminity. If you don't believe me, just ask Pamela Anderson, a woman who men throughout the World turned into millionaire, as a reward for her being hyper-feminine - both in looks and personality.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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But you're forgetting something: bodybuilding is MASCULINE. On a purely physiological level, the single trait which most distinguishes men from women is muscularity. Men are more muscular than women. Hence, bodybuilding, in the case of men, is simply an exaggeration of that which makes men manly.
Female bodybuilding is abnormal, in the sense that it is an enhncement of something women are supposed to not want for themselves, namely, big muscles. Dorian Ytes hitting a rear lat spread, or Ronnie hitting a front double biceps might be freakish and even gross - to those who are not bodybuilding fans - to look at, but at lest it's MANLY. Kim Chisevsky or Lenda Murray doing the same, conversely, is just shocking and repulsive to the Human eye, because it is unnatural. "Unnatural", in this case translating into "unwomanly".
You're right that many, many people are disgusted by the sight of male bodybuilders. But there are still enough people who find it interesting to justify it being a sanctioned sport. In the case of men, bodybuilding is a celebration of MASCULINITY, whereas in the case of women it's just an unnatural exercise in grossness. The interest in male bodybuilding might be compared to those magazines which displayes pics of women ith extremely large, deformed racks: it is large to the point of deformity, but there are still tons of men attracted to it because it's an exaggeration of FEMININITY :o ;D. So, just like masculinity to an exteme degree might be freakish but also interesting, so is extreme feminity. If you don't believe me, just ask Pamela Anderson, a woman who men throughout the World turned into millionaire, as a reward for her being hyper-feminine - both in looks and personality.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Exactly!
To put it in perspective, the male equavalent of female bodybuilders (women who take male hormones and become manly) would be transexuals (men who take female hormones and become feminine), not male bodybuilders (men who take male hormones). Despite what george thinks, when we call female bodybuilders transexuals we are not making a baseless attack, but are instead painting a very accurate picture of the situation.
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For the record, I admire George's passion and generally like his photography now, too...he's done some great work lately.
I think he lets his emotions get the best of him on these issues, though, which compromises his ability to influence the people he is attempting to win over.
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Making rude or baseless attacks is never a good thing, even if the subject is as unattractive as female bodybuilding.
But I have to say, as reasonable and polite as I normally am, I have a VERY hard time doing that when it comes to this topic.
Like John Romano said, women have the right to turn themselves into men, completely destroy any remnants of femininity they ever had, and essentially look like cirus sideshows, just as we have a right not to like it and not to support it financially.
Do female bodybuilders think they look attractive to the general male populace? Do female bodybuilders think we must support or encourage what they do?
I think the majority of them look disgusting. If they need my approval to do what they do, that's too damn bad. Serves them right for being so insecure.
I would say my reaction to a female bodybuilder is an evolved tendency. Does that make me a bad person? Maybe some things are just better left unsaid, and if you can't say anything good...
Do you think male BB-ers look attractive? 99% of the population will say no
Male BB-ers perhaps have a similar starting point as the women, insecurity. I'd even say that's the case even more in men, notice most of the BB are quite short? I think there's some decent correlations to be found between height and BBing
If you can clearly rationalise your thoughts you can apply a morale on your actions and reasonings! The morale in this case is that you should judge the female BB-ers the same as male bb-ers.
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you should judge the female BB-ers the same as male bb-ers.
When male bodybuilders start taking the hormones of the opposite sex, I'm sure we'll judge them equally harshly. Until then, we're not talking about the same thing.
Hope this helps.
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When male bodybuilders start taking the hormones of the opposite sex, I'm sure we'll judge them equally harshly. Until then, we're not talking about the same thing.
Hope this helps.
Game, set, and MATCH!
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Game, set, and MATCH!
Not really, but nice try.
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Not really, but nice try.
Uh, yeah really. You're on the titanic here 8)
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Monster delusional persons.
YIP
Zack
Just what women need to hear, load yourself with male hormones and win, but at what cost? That's the message I got.
Now that sounds like a very informative board. As the old sane goes. Publicity, good or bad, is still publicity. Long live Get Big. And boycot Chicks with Dicks, or almost their.
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You can have whatever opinion on males using male hormones to get bigger.
If the persons in pro "female" bodybuilding were using female hormones, there is NO way this debate would exist.
Time to stop this ridiculous shit. Give girls who are trying to become world class bodybuilders without male hormones the recognition instead.
The question could be raised why this George guy isn't trying to do this. Why is he putting the spotlight on the transgender persons?
Credit to Tre for leaning towards at least somewhat moderate persons. You have to start somewhere...
YIP
Zack
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Game, set, and MATCH!
Misguided fool, I pity you....
Both sexes abuse hormones, because the personal outcome is in some way different they should be judged differently?
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When male bodybuilders start taking the hormones of the opposite sex, I'm sure we'll judge them equally harshly. Until then, we're not talking about the same thing.
Hope this helps.
Ding, ding, ding! Give this man a prize! ;)
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I'd even say that's the case even more in men, notice most of the BB are quite short? I think there's some decent correlations to be found between height and BBing
You're correct that height is related to success at bodybuilding, but your assertion that shorter men start because of insecurity is innacurate. The truth is that a smaller bodybuilder has a smaller frame to fill out and thus looks more complete than a taller competitor at the same weight. You already know that, but consider that shorter bodybuilders outnumber taller one's on pro stages for this reason.
It seems most pros today started lifting for football or other athletic endeavours. Sure, some shorter guys do start to compensate. But there aren't more short bodybuilders than tall ones; they're just more active on stage because they're frames allow them to be more succesful. Not to mention, a taller bodybuilder can play football intead and make a shit-load more money . . .
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When male bodybuilders start taking the hormones of the opposite sex, I'm sure we'll judge them equally harshly. Until then, we're not talking about the same thing.
Hope this helps.
Attention: Goatboy has now officially ended the debate. Thank you for your participation.
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Not really, but nice try.
It wasn't a try it was a success.