Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Matt C on July 05, 2006, 06:35:58 PM
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Discuss.
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it can't be good over time and by time i mean 25-30 years, plaque buildup in the arteries, hardening of the arteries, ventricle wall weakening, high blood pressure, stress on the kidneys, etc.
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when are you planning your cycle matt?
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i remember reading about Pete Grymkowski being a human guinea pig as far as massive dosages go and he's still kicking around, onlyme could probably talk about him more.
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I already hate NPCOCK....
But this will be easy....
Listen you fuckin redneck piece of vagina residue... The article was for people who are juicing..your not even buying real ish... you come into contest weighing 165, whatever you are buying isnt working so i hope you continue down your destructive path of trying to attain the dream of being a BB, no one needs some GH, slin, deca, primo, winny using redneck with the genetics of steve urkel to be walking into the KIDS R US and bullying the other children in the Boys 9-12 section while looking for new underoos to wear in your next Mr. Tulsa contest. Alot of these people have familes, good hard working familes who care for those who have past. But you wouldnt know anything about that cause you live in a trailer and your sister is your mom who is divorced from your brother who is your pappi. When people come up to you do they mistake you for someone who is retarded...hey its that kid in the video who scored all thos points in the basketball game..he is a special one.
homo
You have been JaeJow3d...(again)
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I already hate NPCOCK....
But this will be easy....
Listen you fuckin redneck piece of vagina residue... The article was for people who are juicing..your not even buying real ish... you come into contest weighing 165, whatever you are buying isnt working so i hope you continue down your destructive path of trying to attain the dream of being a BB, no one needs some GH, slin, deca, primo, winny using redneck with the genetics of steve urkel to be walking into the KIDS R US and bullying the other children in the Boys 9-12 section while looking for new underoos to wear in your next Mr. Tulsa contest. Alot of these people have familes, good hard working familes who care for those who have past. But you wouldnt know anything about that cause you live in a trailer and your sister is your mom who is divorced from your brother who is your pappi. When people come up to you do they mistake you for someone who is retarded...hey its that kid in the video who scored all thos points in the basketball game..he is a special one.
homo
You have been JaeJow3d...(again)
"NPCOK" is quite the little bitch, is he not?
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He is a monster 165 BB / MMA ... I eat those guys on my diet...
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He is a monster 165 BB / MMA ... I eat those guys on my diet...
he's an MMA fighter? hahahaha.
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MMA = Mutual Masturbation Association
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there is a difference between steroid use and steroid abuse. to say that this bodybuilder had all sorts of health problems and this other seems healthy is meaningless without knowing the amounts, the combinations and what other things they did in their life.
guys who abuse steroids often also abuse stimulants.
if you're going to do steroids, there are some things you can do to protect your health:
1) cycle on and off. equal amount of time off as on. none of these 5 year long cycles.
2) monitor your BP
3) get regular blood tests, including triglycerides, cholesterol, and liver enzymes (liver is only an issue with 17-alpha orals, generally not injectables). avoid saturated fats, add good fats
4) avoid stimulants, including ephedra, large doses of caffiene, and of course cocaine and methamphetamines.
and in my opinion, 5) avoid GH, insulin, and diuretics. a single miscalculated dose of insulin can kill you. misuse of diuretics can kill too.
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What about dipshits like NPCOCK who are asking mexicans what he can use to be big like Nacho Libre but have the genetics of Alley McBeal??
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5) avoid GH, insulin, and diuretics. a single miscalculated dose of insulin can kill you. misuse of diuretics can kill too.
I thought it was good to use a mild diuretic to control the water retention caused by some steroids, thus relieving its effect on blood pressure ???
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MMA = Mutual Masturbation Association
I though it waas Man on top of Man Action ???
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I thought it was good to use a mild diuretic to control the water retention caused by some steroids, thus relieving its effect on blood pressure ???
well, I was talking more about the rather large doses of diuretics people use right before a contest.
however, I also thought that water retention was in response to estrogen, and that an estrogen inhibitor like 6-OXO (from Pat Arnold, see other thread) would limit it.
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there is a difference between steroid use and steroid abuse. to say that this bodybuilder had all sorts of health problems and this other seems healthy is meaningless without knowing the amounts, the combinations and what other things they did in their life.
guys who abuse steroids often also abuse stimulants.
if you're going to do steroids, there are some things you can do to protect your health:
1) cycle on and off. equal amount of time off as on. none of these 5 year long cycles.
2) monitor your BP
3) get regular blood tests, including triglycerides, cholesterol, and liver enzymes (liver is only an issue with 17-alpha orals, generally not injectables). avoid saturated fats, add good fats
4) avoid stimulants, including ephedra, large doses of caffiene, and of course cocaine and methamphetamines.
and in my opinion, 5) avoid GH, insulin, and diuretics. a single miscalculated dose of insulin can kill you. misuse of diuretics can kill too.
Great post!
Regarding #3, would you say (hypothetically) that a healthy mid-thirties advanced trainer who might use a couple hundred mgs each of testosterone and deca, with perhaps a small amount of GH thrown in (all in order to slow down aging and increase quality of life - NOT to try to win the Olympia or anything) would likely not be stressing his liver then?
What is your opinion of veternary drugs like winstrol and EQ? Would drinking winstrol (if taken at all) as opposed to injecting it cause liver stress?
As for #5, I definitely agree regarding insulin and diuretics, but what about low-dose GH cycling for "anti-aging"? do you see any problems with this... This is all purely hypothetical, and assumes anyone doing any of this does so under medical supervision, and without breaking any laws of course... ;)
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Everyone should get blood work, because a small % of people can't handle them and their blood pressure skyrockets or liver values go crazy, so it would be nice to know if that is you.
Drinking winny or any pill will cause much more liver stress than injecting.
I personally don't think the problems are gh, it is the insulin (which if you are not a moran you are not going to mess up, but don't anyone take it because I say that) diurectics are a big problem in higher doeses, and stimulents are real bad, espically clen, when you have high blood pressure already from the steroids you are asking for heart problems or a heart attack.
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I am not an expert on biochemistry, but...
17-alpha-alkylate steroids are the ones that cause the most stress on the liver. these include most orals, including dianabol, winstrol, anadrol, anavar. it's not that they are injested orally that is the issue. but it is their chemical structure that allows them to be taken orally that is also harsh on the liver.
17-alpha steroids require multiple passes through the liver to become active. some people believe that the liver is most stressed when combining orals and injectables.
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there is a difference between steroid use and steroid abuse.
The term abuse itself is meaningless because it means different things to different people. It also changes over time. What was generally considered steroid abuse in the 80s is not the same as it is today.
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What was generally considered steroid abuse in the 80s is not the same as it is today.
perhaps its is the same. perhaps just more steroid users are abusing them
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it can't be good over time and by time i mean 25-30 years, plaque buildup in the arteries, hardening of the arteries, ventricle wall weakening, high blood pressure, stress on the kidneys, etc.
sarcasm speaks from experience hahahahahahahahahaha brutal steroid abuse hahahahahahahahaha
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sarcasm speaks from experience hahahahahahahahahaha brutal steroid abuse hahahahahahahahaha
god this guy is a joke
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New research has shown that AS users have a bigger chance of not surviving heartattacks.
small amounts of steroids can be beneficial for your gums and teeth, it also widens the jaw, increasing the space between teeth, making flossing easier hehe.
It's a bit of a mixed bag, small amounts can be benificial for some ailments, larger amounts have way to many side-effects.
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Its all down to your genetics. Arnold and Lou were juicing [on and off] for upwards of twenty years - and they're fine. Judging from his pics i'd say that Dorian started in 85 and finished in 97 - and hes fine. Same [or thereabouts] for Kev and Shawn. Some people are just unlucky, simple as that.
With moderate use you should be fine, as long as you're not hitting coke, pills, speed etc [and many are]. I'm still amazed everytime i see a bodybuilder smoking. And it disgusts me everytime someone posts a "can i drink whilst on the gear" over on the steroid board. NO! Be sensible! Enjoy the gear, enjoy the benefits it brings - but protect your health.
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The Psychological effect is always hard to deal with. When most pro's career is over, I'm sure they realized that all these strenght and size were borrowed. They must dealt with what they had naturally. but in my opinion, the physical effect, sometime is inevitable.
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Bodybuilding safely = Regular bloodwork, Calcium score test on heart every three years to see if arteries maybe hardening, dont use orals unless pre contest, dont use clen unless pre contest and 4 weeks max, dont compete more than once every two years, no professional aspirations, look around most pros earn less than a wall mart employee and he doesnt have to stick his wages in his butt every week.
Cycle once to twice a year, max, Eat healthy, dont eat the junk just to be big on the scales.
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Some of the best people who know about safe bb you might consider asking ...
Ken Wheeler
Tom Prince
Mike Matarazzo
Orville Burke
the Ghost of Andreas Munzer
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Its all down to your genetics. Arnold and Lou were juicing [on and off] for upwards of twenty years - and they're fine. Judging from his pics i'd say that Dorian started in 85 and finished in 97 - and hes fine. Same [or thereabouts] for Kev and Shawn. Some people are just unlucky, simple as that.
With moderate use you should be fine, as long as you're not hitting coke, pills, speed etc [and many are]. I'm still amazed everytime i see a bodybuilder smoking. And it disgusts me everytime someone posts a "can i drink whilst on the gear" over on the steroid board. NO! Be sensible! Enjoy the gear, enjoy the benefits it brings - but protect your health.
I was flipping through the Bodybuilding Encyclopedia by Robert Kennedy the other day and it was suprising how a guy on almost every other page was either dead or sick.
Dont be ignorant to the facts. Arnold was sick and probably still is. Two heart surgeries and coloring his hair since about age 30. Dorian, Kevin, Shawn... how do you know they're ok? Dorian seems to look up and down.
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i remember reading about Pete Grymkowski being a human guinea pig as far as massive dosages go and he's still kicking around, onlyme could probably talk about him more.
Did you ever see that Musclemag with Grymkowski lying on a bed in the ER with tubes coming out of his mouth and a crew of medical personel trying to revive him from his heart attack?... i believe it was his second. Seeing that he's about my dads age.... he not really kicking around so-to-speak.
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Some of the best people who know about safe bb you might consider asking ...
Ken Wheeler
Tom Prince
Mike Matarazzo
Orville Burke
the Ghost of Andreas Munzer
the problem with such "Reefer Maddness" arguing techniques is that it doesn't convey any real information.
We know that diuretics can kill (Munzer). We know that unmonitored high BP for years and years can cause kidney damage (Wheeler). We know that unmonitored cholesterol and triglycerides combined with a diet high in saturated fats can lead to a heart attack (Matarazzo). and we know that even simple surgeries can go horribly wrong (Burke, but what does that have to do with bodybuilding?)
Millions of guys have used anabolic steroids over the last 60 years, and most of them have not abused them, nor have they had any long term side effects. Doing 2000 mg a week for 6 months to a year is probably not a good idea. Doing 200-400 mg a week for 10-12 weeks is probably safe for most guys.
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the problem with such "Reefer Maddness" arguing techniques is that it doesn't convey any real information.
We know that diuretics can kill (Munzer). We know that unmonitored high BP for years and years can cause kidney damage (Wheeler). We know that unmonitored cholesterol and triglycerides combined with a diet high in saturated fats can lead to a heart attack (Matarazzo). and we know that even simple surgeries can go horribly wrong (Burke) but what does that have to do with bodybuilding?
Millions of guys have used anabolic steroids over the last 60 years, and most of them have not abused them, nor have they had any long term side effects. Doing 2000 mg a week for 6 months to a year is probably not a good idea. Doing 200-400 mg a week for 10-12 weeks is probably safe for most guys.
Sorry didnt mean to belittle your info Tim, you are correct with what you say, but the majority of Steroid users do not put that much thought into what they are gettin into..more like the 'I see my boy doing this, imma do the same' type of technique...If they were legal then i feel we can minimize the risk associated with usage however their prohibition will continue to help the proliferation the back alley techniques used by novices in the sport.
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Are you natural JaeJoanna
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As far as I know there are no real studies which have examined this.
First of all, long term studies such as this one are virtually impossible to conduct.
You would have to recruit a cohort of BBers who admit they are on juice (most claim they are "clean") they you would have to follow them over several years, administering tests along the way. The drop out rate would be higher than Cormier in high school.
Thirdly, there would be NO ONE willing to fund this type of a study and lastly no paper which would accept this type of article.
Therefore, for the above reasons this answer will never be answered definitively. Everything else on this post is pure conjecture based on a few isolated cases of those people who died, got very sick or are perfectly fine.
However, there are tons of confounding factors in group analyzing individual cases such as these....genetics, age, duration of AAS, Dosing, Types, other supplements etc....
Having said all this, as one of the MD's on this board, I would have to say that you would be hard pressed to find an accredited physician who would endorse taking AAS.
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As far as I know there are no real studies which have examined this.
First of all, long term studies such as this one are virtually impossible to conduct.
You would have to recruit a cohort of BBers who admit they are on juice (most claim they are "clean") they you would have to follow them over several years, administering tests along the way. The drop out rate would be higher than Cormier in high school.
Thirdly, there would be NO ONE willing to fund this type of a study and lastly no paper which would accept this type of article.
Therefore, for the above reasons this answer will never be answered definitively. Everything else on this post is pure conjecture based on a few isolated cases of those people who died, got very sick or are perfectly fine.
However, there are tons of confounding factors in group analyzing individual cases such as these....genetics, age, duration of AAS, Dosing, Types, other supplements etc....
Having said all this, as one of the MD's on this board, I would have to say that you would be hard pressed to find an accredited physician who would endorse taking AAS.
Thank you very much for that response!! I'm not a doctor, but that is my opinion as well.
Non-physicians come on a discussion board and say "take A or B or C because it bypasses the liver"... and on and on and on.
They have absolutely no credentials or licensing or anything at risk in making these statements. They can't be sued if they are wrong. They are, in effect, endorsing "safe use" of steriods, even though they themselves have no experience, data or studies to cite. They consider themselves experts because they understand some of the basic concepts of how the drugs work in the body.
Steriod use basically began with Dianabol in the 60's. So go do a study of a % of lifters and bodybuilders who competed in the national AAU and IFBB contests in the 3 sports of b/b, p/l and o/l meets during the 60's and 70's. Find out how their livers, prostates and hearts, etc have fared over the last 40 or so years. Then come back and give us the results, and we have something to base opinion on.
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is D-bol bridging considered a cycle or post cycle therapy?
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If one thing should be made clear from this post it's that bodybuilding (i.e., gaining mass and being shredded) has NOTHING - absolutely nothing - to do with health.
Take Lee Priest in his muscletech ads. Whatever he does clearly does get him the results he wants for competitive bodybuilding but doesn't have the slightest thing to do with being healthy. Now maybe Lee himself is healthy but I would probably already have diabetes if I followed his diet.
he probably has diabetes and doesn't know it.
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Some pictures of Grymkowski with his new child were posted last year and he was looking ok, but you would not ever know he was juicing or was anywhere near as thick as he used to be. Given that he would compete at around 240 and in good condition at 5'10. In the pics I remember he had a pretty thin build. But he was still alive and didn't appear to be terribly unhealthy - not that appearances count for everything. At least his reproductive system was good enough after all that heavy juicing to conceive a child.
Pete is a very good friend of mine and my kids godfather. He competed at 265 and I don't think he is that thin when he competed. And you are right about appearance. Pete had 4 heart attacks in 2 weeks. His spine is or was detoritating. He has spent thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars traveling around the world to get better. Of all the countries and doctors he has been to from Germany to Brazil to Mexico, he told me Tijuana Mexico is where he got the best treatment. He is better nwo and feeling good. He could barely walk a block but now is better. I try to talk to him as much as possible but he spends allot fo time in Cabo since he had a house built there.
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coloring his hair since about age 30.
What's that got to do with anything? How early your hair turns gray is genetic, and has nothing to do with the state of your overall health.
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Pete is a very good friend of mine and my kids godfather. He competed at 265 and I don't think he is that thin when he competed. And you are right about appearance. Pete had 4 heart attacks in 2 weeks. His spine is or was detoritating. He has spent thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars traveling around the world to get better. Of all the countries and doctors he has been to from Germany to Brazil to Mexico, he told me Tijuana Mexico is where he got the best treatment. He is better nwo and feeling good. He could barely walk a block but now is better. I try to talk to him as much as possible but he spends allot fo time in Cabo since he had a house built there.
Pete had an awesome build back then, that's what a guy should look like, big but not bloated and freaky, Pete looked hard as nails and extremely strong, do you know the stories of what he took Keith?
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I also want to know. Is he 5'10? I read that in a few sources. If so, 265 is ridiculously big.
i would say he was probably around there, if you look at the picture he looks at least 10 inches taller than Padilla who was like 5'2" or something.
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Yes he is 5'10 barefoot. And he comepted at 265 most of the time. He weighs about 180 now. He has told me numerous times what and hwo much he took. I can't remeber it all. Buthe was famous for how much he took. His body reacted very good to everything. He also guest posed no more than 5 to 7 pounds over his comp weight. He always felt if the promoter was giving him money to pose then he deserved the best. He hates how the guys look today when they guest pose. I wish he coould type cause if you heard his stories they are unreal the shit he has seen and did. Makes me look like a newborn.
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Its all down to your genetics. Arnold and Lou were juicing [on and off] for upwards of twenty years - and they're fine.
Arnold had open heart surgery in 1996 when he was 49, supposedly for a "genetic defect."
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Don'y you guys listen to anybody. Take anything you want by the truckload. Don't worry about cycling. Double your doses and never come off anything. Keep the juice levels up.Be sure to send me your name and next of kin.
Sincerely,
N. Tomb--Funeral Director
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Steriod use basically began with Dianabol in the 60's.
steroid esters were used by many in the 1940s and 1950s. first reference that I've found for an anabolic steroid in a bodybuilding mag was in a 1938 Strength and Health.