Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure

Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: GHGut on July 12, 2006, 04:58:52 AM

Title: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: GHGut on July 12, 2006, 04:58:52 AM
Here's one to mull over:
Could the 92 Kevin Levrone (the physique that won the NOC) or the 93 Flex Wheeler (who won a string of pro shows in the spring including the Arnold) BEAT Jay Cutler at his best, any year?

I lean towards yes!
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: Slick Vic on July 12, 2006, 05:02:49 AM
Well, in speaking of Flex Wheeler I'm gonna say.... yes!  8)
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: Hedgehog on July 12, 2006, 05:28:39 AM
Yes.

Levrone was superior in terms of genetics.

It's like comparing a Lamborghini to a Dodge truck.

The Dodge does its job. Reliable, but nothing extraordinary like the Lamborghini.

YIP
Zack
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: New York on July 12, 2006, 05:33:31 AM
Jay would be competitive, but  it would be Flex and Kevin's show.
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: jaejonna on July 12, 2006, 05:48:45 AM
Jay would be owned by those two..
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: natural al on July 12, 2006, 05:58:36 AM
Jay at his very, very best could put up a good fight.  I guess it would depend on the standards, with the standards of the early 90's flex and Kev would crush him.  Jay does not have thier seperation.  With todays it might go to jay cause in both those shows those guys weighed in at about 230-or there abouts.  Since today is all about the size game Jay might be able to win.  I think it's a disgrace that the standard has fallen so much in the last 10-12 years.
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: Slick Vic on July 12, 2006, 06:02:54 AM
the standard has fallen so much in the last 10-12 years.
You ain't kidding.  :-\
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: New York on July 12, 2006, 06:12:02 AM
Jay at his very, very best could put up a good fight.  I guess it would depend on the standards, with the standards of the early 90's flex and Kev would crush him.  Jay does not have thier seperation.  With todays it might go to jay cause in both those shows those guys weighed in at about 230-or there abouts.  Since today is all about the size game Jay might be able to win.  I think it's a disgrace that the standard has fallen so much in the last 10-12 years.
Agreed.
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: LurkerNoMore on July 12, 2006, 10:09:59 AM
Jay would be outclassed by Flex and outmassed by Levrone.  The only reason Jay is called #2 in the biz is because neither Flex, Ray, nor Levrone is competing anymore. 

Hell, Jay  hasn't shown yet that he can convincingly defeat Dex.  His last placings over him were dubious at best.   I would even wager that if compared 1 to 1 to Badell, he would have a hard time beating him.
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: IFBBwannaB on July 12, 2006, 10:27:00 AM
Jay would be owned by those two..

I wouldnt be so sure,Jay is HUGE ,got nice lines and comes in a good condition.
92 Levrone isnt is best either,he will need to be in his mid-late 90's shape to beat Jay.
And 93 Flex will be able to pull it only with a favorisem from the judge panel.A sligthly larger/later version of Flex (pre or early Synthol stages) will be a way better match.

Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: benchmstr on July 12, 2006, 10:36:14 AM
if jay were judged on his body instead of his name everyone in the ifbb would woop his ass ;)
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: IFBBwannaB on July 12, 2006, 10:48:14 AM
Jay would be outclassed by Flex and outmassed by Levrone.  The only reason Jay is called #2 in the biz is because neither Flex, Ray, nor Levrone is competing anymore. 

Hell, Jay  hasn't shown yet that he can convincingly defeat Dex.  His last placings over him were dubious at best.   I would even wager that if compared 1 to 1 to Badell, he would have a hard time beating him.

At best ~97 Levrone can match Jay size.Stop smoking crack.
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: Yev33 on July 12, 2006, 11:00:15 AM
The best Cutler to date is his '01 Olympia showing (which he should have won), it's a matter of opinion but I don't think that at their best either one of these guys is head and shoulders above the other two.
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: divcom on July 12, 2006, 11:26:30 AM
The best Cutler to date is his '01 Olympia showing (which he should have won), it's a matter of opinion but I don't think that at their best either one of these guys is head and shoulders above the other two.

The problem is he was DQed in 2001 as Ray was at the AC.  Whatever combination of DIs he was on had him dry as a salty cracker or sand storm.  Pick another yr.   
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: Earl1972 on July 12, 2006, 12:46:54 PM
yes

E
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: alexxx on July 12, 2006, 12:53:43 PM
Jay would be outclassed by Flex and outmassed by Levrone.  The only reason Jay is called #2 in the biz is because neither Flex, Ray, nor Levrone is competing anymore. 

Hell, Jay  hasn't shown yet that he can convincingly defeat Dex.  His last placings over him were dubious at best.   I would even wager that if compared 1 to 1 to Badell, he would have a hard time beating him.

Great post!
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: hipolito mejia on July 12, 2006, 01:02:14 PM
At last a topic where everyone agrees

Cutler has no place between those 2.
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: Scimowser on July 12, 2006, 01:07:08 PM
Levrone out massing Jay Cutler? did you actually have a straight face when you typed that? Get real, Jay is enormous and lb for lb, much bigger than Kev ever was. Remember, Jay actually HAS legs!
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: alexxx on July 12, 2006, 01:08:25 PM
Levrone out massing Jay Cutler? did you actually have a straight face when you typed that? Get real, Jay is enormous and lb for lb, much bigger than Kev ever was. Remember, Jay actually HAS legs!

::)
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: body88 on July 12, 2006, 01:19:59 PM
Levrone bigger than Cutler lol....  Gotta love it!
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: Earl1972 on July 12, 2006, 01:30:09 PM
::)

oh man owned :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

E
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: Scimowser on July 12, 2006, 01:48:09 PM
 ::)
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: jem123 on July 12, 2006, 02:04:08 PM
Levrone and wheeler are two of my favorite physiques of all time but i think both would struggle against Jay in top form. to suggest that levrone outmasses Cutler is absurd. It simply is not true, they are both about the same height (5.9") but Jay is at least 15lbs heavier on stage.

As for others suggesting Jay is not a good BB and only gets placed on his name i have to wonder what the fuck they see when they look at the olympia/Arnold lineup. Jay places high for one very simple reason - he is one of the best BBs in the world.

To suggest otherwise is a joke.
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: Hedgehog on July 12, 2006, 02:20:38 PM
Levrone out massing Jay Cutler? did you actually have a straight face when you typed that? Get real, Jay is enormous and lb for lb, much bigger than Kev ever was. Remember, Jay actually HAS legs!

Levrone was known for his awesome leg development in the early 90's-mid 90's. Then he had his back injury.

(http://www.fitnesspont.hu/mass-shop/picture_gallery/Kevin_Levrone/Levrone_70.jpg)(http://www.fitnesspont.hu/mass-shop/picture_gallery/Kevin_Levrone/Levrone_01.jpg)

(http://www.fitnesspont.hu/mass-shop/picture_gallery/British_GP/1999/British_GP_1999_026.jpg)

(http://www.fitnesspont.hu/mass-shop/picture_gallery/Mr_Olympia/1996/Mr.O_1996_025.jpg)

YIP
Zack
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: IceCold on July 12, 2006, 02:36:33 PM
one of the better threads in a while.


assuming each of the guys would be at their best, i think it would be close.

flex has the small joints and round muscles.  he also is very strong in the back detail - one of jay's weaknesses.

jay is in good condition and competes at 260 with good symmetry (that means balance, not aesthetics).  he would def. out mass flex, but would that be enough with flex's symmetry, aesthetics, and conditioning (back in 93 or 94).  its not like jay is dorian, like how dorian beat flex in 93.


i think the 92 version of levrone would be out muscled by the jay of today.  however, the 94 and 96 versions of levrone when he won the AC would be different.  he weighed about 245 and had great fullness and conditioning.  fullness not even jay has.  i think those 2 versions would edge out cutler.

Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: Hulkster on July 12, 2006, 02:39:42 PM
I think that Kevin in 92 or Flex in 93 could definately take Jay.

Jay would have the size advantage, and better biceps than Kevin, but not much else I don't think.

Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on July 12, 2006, 03:01:58 PM
No one could beat Flex 1993 ASC not Yates not Haney not Coleman not Levrone.

Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: GHGut on July 12, 2006, 03:13:37 PM
Reading these threads it seems to me like a lot of people agree that the early Levrone (92) and Wheeler (93) were --arguably-- the best each man had to offer. Bigger didn't mean better in eitehr case. Same (I'd argue and have) with Ronnie (the 98 Ronnie or even the 01 ASC Ronnie I like much better than anything near the current 300 pound Ronnie).
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on July 12, 2006, 03:29:42 PM
Reading these threads it seems to me like a lot of people agree that the early Levrone (92) and Wheeler (93) were --arguably-- the best each man had to offer. Bigger didn't mean better in eitehr case. Same (I'd argue and have) with Ronnie (the 98 Ronnie or even the 01 ASC Ronnie I like much better than anything near the current 300 pound Ronnie).


When Levrone competed in 92 he was very lean realtively speaking , but his muscle was very well proportioned but some pics of him he looked much better with more weight and Flex doesn't I think Flex looked his best in the lower 200s .
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: Earl1972 on July 12, 2006, 09:14:43 PM
::)

yes post pics of M3 at his all time worst to prove you point ::)

E
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: G o a t b o y on July 12, 2006, 09:19:30 PM
'93 Flex?

Well, according to Jim Quinn...   ;D
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: monstercalves on July 12, 2006, 09:27:01 PM
No one could beat Flex 1993 ASC not Yates not Haney not Coleman not Levrone.



agreed
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: honest on July 12, 2006, 09:33:35 PM
92 Leverone and Wheeler in 93 represent the two best physiques not to ever win the olympia, and Jay wouldnt have defeated either and if the sport kept the physiques along those lines, it would be a much better look, than the overmassed crap we have to watch these days.

Bring on the PDI, i know their going to suck for a while but hopefully their judging will bring physqiues back from the mass without class age we are in at the moment
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: quadzilla456 on July 12, 2006, 09:49:21 PM
I think that Kevin in 92 or Flex in 93 could definately take Jay.

Jay would have the size advantage, and better biceps than Kevin, but not much else I don't think.



Not much else? How about back, calves, quads and overall mass? Shoulders / chest / hamstrings would be a tie imo.
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: the shadow on July 13, 2006, 01:16:08 AM
i would say kevin in his 1996 or 1997 form would woop any ones ass in pro bodybuilding..the guy had mass all over with enough shape...and talking about jay...he never had those levrone cannon ball delts wat so ever...wheeler was nothing but a pussy..a hyped asshole who won because of his name...i still don't understand how a small ass bodybuilder like wheeler win so much shows even tho he was small as hell..jay or kevin would virtuallly eat him alive he was so smalll...I STILL DON'T GET HOW DID A SMALL ,NARROW PRO LIKE WHEELER BEAT THE MASS MONSTERS....damn his arnold classic 1997 win was a fuckin joke...when he posed individually,he looked like a small school boy..in that contest we had nasser,paul,mike f.,..damn they all were twice his size...i had nasser or paul dillett winning that show..
HOW THE HELL DID WHEELER BEAT THEM....HE WAS NOTHING BUT A SMALL ASSWIPE PRO...Y
Y Y  Y Y Y Y Y Y Y !!!!!!!
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: Scimowser on July 13, 2006, 03:12:07 AM
yes post pics of M3 at his all time worst to prove you point ::)

E

wo the fuck is M3? As for the Levrone pic, that wasnt even near his worst showing. And whoever talked about Jay placing on his name alone - HELLO! Its Kevin "Santa comes but 5 times a year" Levrone. He placed in shows based on his name more than ANYONE in the history of the sport!
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: Earl1972 on July 13, 2006, 11:03:13 AM
wo the f**k is M3? As for the Levrone pic, that wasnt even near his worst showing. And whoever talked about Jay placing on his name alone - HELLO! Its Kevin "Santa comes but 5 times a year" Levrone. He placed in shows based on his name more than ANYONE in the history of the sport!

who is M3?  who is M3 are you kiddin me? ???

MARYLAND MUSCLE MACHINE!
MARYLAND MUSCLE MACHINE!
MARYLAND MUSCLE MACHINE!
MARYLAND MUSCLE MACHINE!
MARYLAND MUSCLE MACHINE!
MARYLAND MUSCLE MACHINE!
MARYLAND MUSCLE MACHINE!
MARYLAND MUSCLE MACHINE!
MARYLAND MUSCLE MACHINE!
MARYLAND MUSCLE MACHINE!
MARYLAND MUSCLE MACHINE!

get it ::)

that pic you posted was right after he tore his tricep SO YEAH IT WAS HIS WORST FUCKING LOOK >:( >:( >:( >:(

E
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: Scimowser on July 13, 2006, 11:55:52 AM
what was the last contest he had decent wheels in? His legs were gone long before then but the gifts kept rolling in
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: Earl1972 on July 13, 2006, 12:02:42 PM
what was the last contest he had decent wheels in? His legs were gone long before then but the gifts kept rolling in

2000 O

gifts?  who the hell should've been placing ahead of him ???

E
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: Scimowser on July 13, 2006, 01:07:39 PM
youre honestly saying his name didnt push him ahead of people who actually had him soundly beaten? Come on, even Kev himself would admit he received alot of favouritism (well i would hope he was that honest)
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: HERACLES on July 13, 2006, 01:28:22 PM
youre honestly saying his name didnt push him ahead of people who actually had him soundly beaten? Come on, even Kev himself would admit he received alot of favouritism (well i would hope he was that honest)

DUDE , i understand its your opinion, bur WHAT R U SMOKIN MAN!  Kevin could and should have taken home at least 2 sandows. To say favourtism, man- the guy was one of the sports BIGGEST stars, without even winning the O...At his best, I cant believe Dorian wa splaced ahead of him bc of his back..Yates had a big back, but I dont know how you place that higher than a genetic specimen, bodybuilding poster child like Kevin Levronie. His physique was one of the best ever, even better than Dorians...imho.

I remember watching kevins face when they would announce the final placings..i swear I thought a few times he was just going to walk off stage..
Takes something special to do what he did- he didnt walk away from the sport bc of injury, or bc he wasnt successfull, it was bc he knew it was time to move on to bigger and better things..good for him..
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: alexxx on July 13, 2006, 01:30:05 PM
Beat this Jay! :o
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: Scimowser on July 13, 2006, 02:48:53 PM
he did - many times
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: ARMZ on July 13, 2006, 04:17:15 PM
Quick reminder, this is 2006..  Jay competes as much as 290 at 5'9" these days.. He would make Kevin and flex look like babies..
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: LyricTenor on July 13, 2006, 04:41:58 PM
haha, not looking like this.
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: Earl1972 on July 13, 2006, 06:23:35 PM
youre honestly saying his name didnt push him ahead of people who actually had him soundly beaten? Come on, even Kev himself would admit he received alot of favouritism (well i would hope he was that honest)

still waiting for the "names" you think should've been placed ahead of him...

E
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: Earl1972 on July 13, 2006, 06:27:14 PM
haha, not looking like this.

damn that is one big refrigerator ;D

E
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: Ex Coelis on July 13, 2006, 08:52:13 PM
I got the 92 Olympia in the mail today

I couldn't beleive how good K-Lo's conditioning was - it was ridiculous

I had never seen him with that much detail, cuts, and shredded glutes/hams
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: ARMZ on July 14, 2006, 01:19:31 AM
haha, not looking like this.


Jay only has them by about 60-70 pounds at the same height..  It's all about mass today..  220-230 pounds just dont cut it anymore.. 
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: IFBBwannaB on July 14, 2006, 02:43:33 AM
Quick reminder, this is 2006..  Jay competes as much as 290 at 5'9" these days.. He would make Kevin and flex look like babies..


Jay competing at 290 ??? I think the highest figure I saw was 275.And even that sound like streching it.

But you are right,Jay will own them masswise,unless Levorne comes in his ~97 250+ shape which looked MAD.
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: ARMZ on July 14, 2006, 02:16:11 PM

Jay competing at 290 ??? I think the highest figure I saw was 275.And even that sound like streching it.

But you are right,Jay will own them masswise,unless Levorne comes in his ~97 250+ shape which looked MAD.


I remember Jay over 290 at the Olympia press conference a couple years ago..  Hey Jay, can you confirm this..
Title: Re: Could the 92 Levrone or 93 Wheeler beat (any year) Cutler?
Post by: Hulkster on July 14, 2006, 02:18:03 PM
I would argue that Kevin's quads in 1992 and 1994 were better than jays.

So were Flex's.

(http://body.builder.hu/imagebank/pictures/974038871.jpg)
(http://body.builder.hu/imagebank/pictures/974038089.jpg)
I think Jay would have trouble with kevin..

And Flex would kill him (and almost anyone with the possible exeptions of Ronnie at the 2001 AC or Shawn Ray at the 1994 or 1996 Olympias)'

(http://body.builder.hu/imagebank/pictures/1107457802.jpg)
 :-\