Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: Lugar on July 14, 2006, 05:24:26 AM
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Qucik scenerio, I went from a complete bodybuilding physique, to a overtrained, malnutrieshed state over the course of 4 years...starting doing triatholon after traiatholn and found myself from 220, to 160 and weaker than shit.....my diet sucked, as it was 100% clean, but lacking in cals cause I was so overtrained and never hungry....used to bench 225 for easy 15, now it's a struggle with 135........how does this happen? my test levels are below the floor and I would diet to get back to where I was....doesnt help training 7 days a week, I know, but would love some help!
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Overtraining + under eating = Small weak man
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BRO~ youre makin this too hard!! it aint rocket science....Youve gotta eat BIG (by BIG i mean huge quantities of good clean food with some cheat meals mixed in once a week or so)....it doesnt matter if your hungry or NOT hungry thats irrelevant if you really wanna grow....Eat because its time and bc youre body needs the nutrients to grow and progress not because whether or not you feel like it.
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to add to the above post, don't try to go from zero to 60 in the first week, eat more a little at a time. like training think of it as stages, move up a few hundred calories at a time don't jump up 3000 in your first week.same as when you were going down (eating clean small meals many times a day) do it in reverse add more carbs and protein to your many meals to get your body used to eating more and not converting it strait to fat.
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I know I can beat this f-ing thing with your help, but this will be my last attempt before I seek counciling.......I promise. Physc. just dont know what's it's like to a bopdybuilder and eat like one......Help me out with this one last time and I swear to you, if it doesnt work, I'm done........How do you get over the mental aspect of getting fat? Every am, I check out my abs and if they look faded, I get depressed...then I see some dude who has a show coming up in 10 days who says he is 6% and I swear I have sharper abs, so I guess my outlook on physiques is flawed as no one really has diced abs, unoess they are on stage....the problem I have is I feel bloated all the time which makes me feel fat....even if I only consume 2,000 - I dont know what it is, maybe is the gum I chew, maybe the oats, maybe it's my back problems, that just makes me feel fat and now I feel like I'm getting skinny fat which is worse...sure I have abs, but are they really abs? I mean at 160, wouldnt anyone have abs? Wont they be even better when I'm 200lbs with muscle again?
Here is my dilemma, help me understand this.....if I go all out and just eat my ass off...95% CLEAN, JUST eating when I'm hungry, minimum every 3 hours, will I get stronger and build more muscle? Or will it all be stored as fat since my joints are weak and I cant go as heavy as I want.....will the weights increase as the scale moves? Much thanks fellas!
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I know I can beat this f-ing thing with your help, but this will be my last attempt before I seek counciling.......I promise. Physc. just dont know what's it's like to a bopdybuilder and eat like one......Help me out with this one last time and I swear to you, if it doesnt work, I'm done........How do you get over the mental aspect of getting fat? Every am, I check out my abs and if they look faded, I get depressed...then I see some dude who has a show coming up in 10 days who says he is 6% and I swear I have sharper abs, so I guess my outlook on physiques is flawed as no one really has diced abs, unoess they are on stage....the problem I have is I feel bloated all the time which makes me feel fat....even if I only consume 2,000 - I dont know what it is, maybe is the gum I chew, maybe the oats, maybe it's my back problems, that just makes me feel fat and now I feel like I'm getting skinny fat which is worse...sure I have abs, but are they really abs? I mean at 160, wouldnt anyone have abs? Wont they be even better when I'm 200lbs with muscle again?
Here is my dilemma, help me understand this.....if I go all out and just eat my ass off...95% CLEAN, JUST eating when I'm hungry, minimum every 3 hours, will I get stronger and build more muscle? Or will it all be stored as fat since my joints are weak and I cant go as heavy as I want.....will the weights increase as the scale moves? Much thanks fellas!
bro, just come over to the steroid forum and we will be glad to help you. For this type of problem with appetite and wanting to gain size.....hmmmm---- I would say: 10 weeks of equipoise along with 12 weeks of sustanon. You could even eat a little d-bol in the front...... This will be a good way for you to gain 30 pounds. Hell, If you ran two cycles, you could be better off than 220! ;D
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I see and have met quite a few Tri athletes and most are fairly muscular and healthy looking. If you have been training yourself (which it sounds like you have) than fire yourself and get ahold of someone who knows what their doing in the way of training. May want to start with the diet. Tri's down here in the San Deigo area get a daily calorie intake of 4000 to 8000 a day, way more when training for a event. But the calories are dense and high quality. It sounds like your body is feeding upon it's self (muscles & internal organs take a loss in this regard) which also means the whole chemical balance is off. Take a few weeks rest and see a doctor, like yesterday. You may need a whole new thinking to your training goals and what you really want out of training. Good Luck.
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Qucik scenerio, I went from a complete bodybuilding physique, to a overtrained, malnutrieshed state over the course of 4 years...starting doing triatholon after traiatholn and found myself from 220, to 160 and weaker than shit.....my diet sucked, as it was 100% clean, but lacking in cals cause I was so overtrained and never hungry....used to bench 225 for easy 15, now it's a struggle with 135........how does this happen? my test levels are below the floor and I would diet to get back to where I was....doesnt help training 7 days a week, I know, but would love some help!
What are your current goals?
If you aim to become really good in endurance sports, then keeping the carb intake extremely low during training periods is the latest recommendations - "Train low, compete high" (Saltin).
If you want to build muscles, or just are doing tri's for the hell of it, and wants to be muscular at the same time, then a slightly different philosophy would be recommended.
YIP
Zack
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Its all ok...hired a top notch trainer........goal is to compete in my first local bb show, 15 months till countdown!
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top notch trainer?!?! OH NO! That's one of the worst things you can do. How do you know he's a good trainer? Cause he has certifications? anyone can get them... it's just a test and information in those things is usually gay. most of the are even TAKE HOME TESTS. I had the ACE textbook... it was so much BS I couldn't believe it. 12% protein... TONS of biology, hardly anything about training. food pyramid... pure garbage for nerds who wanna look like they're smart. Dude you're just having a meltdown... pull yourself together man! you know how it is you lost all that muscle... just do the opposite to gain it back... it will take time. just eat like a man and stop the gay cardio you have been doing for years now. don't worry you won't die. the heart still beats when you lift. also don't overtrain. if you're that weak and small now you can't handle long workouts and especially not 2x a day training. just eat well, rest a lot and watch how you will grow. don't worry so much about methods.. just do it.
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enough from you man..thnx
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enough from you man..thnx
Keep us updated mang.
And again, good luck.
YIP
Zack
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but just chill man.. you're making yourself crazy
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Stop working out!! Serious advice Ive been there.
You need to help your system, you have overtrained your body and now not much works. Pumps are not good, body shape is not what it used to be, and muscles get tired easier. Youve put your body through a flight or fight situation and now it knows what to do to "do less" and your spinning your wheels.
Here is what I did, hated it but loved it afterwards. Take 2 months off, OFF just be normal, eat healthy with plenty of good food.
Your body will morph you will feel like crap and get kinda soft, but that just means it's working.
You need to find another hobby, something anythign just not to much activity.
Your drive for weights will grow and then you can hit the gym and just do a moderate routine, and it will work and work fast.
Your also deppressed and feeling down, negative mind influence hurts the body and mind ALOT. Pick up a book and enjoy outside, if you cant handle not going to the gym at all then just do so 1x per week
Ive been there and then there with injuries and this is the best recipe for getting your body back in shape, after overtraining, and after going through contest prep that lasted to long
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If you knew what you were doing back in the day when you did 225 for 15, you'll know how to get back there.
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at this point i think it is psychotic. i suggest a lobotomy.
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rest is the best suggestion, bt 2 months is extreme....I am done with cardio which should really help the situation. No looking at mirrors, no scales.....1/2 the battle. I will weigh myself monday (today 158) and friday and avg.....2-3lbs is the MOST I will allow myself in a given week or I cut back. Anything more than that (after the first week of h20) is fat....
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rest is the best suggestion, bt 2 months is extreme....I am done with cardio which should really help the situation. No looking at mirrors, no scales.....1/2 the battle. I will weigh myself monday (today 158) and friday and avg.....2-3lbs is the MOST I will allow myself in a given week or I cut back. Anything more than that (after the first week of h20) is fat....
Extreme measures for extreme situations.
It's all in your mind the reason for the long layoff, is to come to grips with reality about your body and build up enourmous dedication and getting hungry, once you ditch the gym get your life and mind in extreme order then your body will follow suit.
Good point mirrors and scales will screw your head up, sometimes, make you negative attitude you just got to keep focus, things take time.
Try to look up some relaxtion techniques.
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I'm slated to be on a schedule where my pw shake comes as soon as I finish training of whey, dextrose and pie filling. 1 scoop whey, 50g of each carb source. Then within that "magic window of 45 minutes, I kick in another scoop of whey, another 50g of dext, and drop the pie filling for a cup of oats. Then one hour later, I have a good size meal of a meat with a little more fats (dozen eggs, using 2-3 yolks, or salmon and chicken etc.) and 2 cups of rice. THEN..........I have a boatload of almonds/walnuts with a cup of cottage cheese and a casein shake as I crawl into bed. Long story short, what do you think about this magical approach for someone trying to put on some lean mass, at 6'2, 170lbs? Time frame from the time I drop the last set weight till the time I climb into bed in 6pm - 930/10pm.........thoughts?
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I'm slated to be on a schedule where my pw shake comes as soon as I finish training of whey, dextrose and pie filling. 1 scoop whey, 50g of each carb source. Then within that "magic window of 45 minutes, I kick in another scoop of whey, another 50g of dext, and drop the pie filling for a cup of oats. Then one hour later, I have a good size meal of a meat with a little more fats (dozen eggs, using 2-3 yolks, or salmon and chicken etc.) and 2 cups of rice. THEN..........I have a boatload of almonds/walnuts with a cup of cottage cheese and a casein shake as I crawl into bed. Long story short, what do you think about this magical approach for someone trying to put on some lean mass, at 6'2, 170lbs? Time frame from the time I drop the last set weight till the time I climb into bed in 6pm - 930/10pm.........thoughts?
Here's my thoughts:
Your postworkout drink: 25 grams of protein with somewhere around 60+60 grams of carbs (dextrose + maltodextrin)
After 45-60 minutes, eat your first meal. Brown rice (lots of it) and some protein source, salmon is great. Tuna, chicken too. Red meat is great as well. Lots of vegetables as well. If this meal is low fat, drink a table spoon or two of virgin olive oil.
Another 60-90 minutes passes, and eat another big meal, a LITTLE lower in carbs and higher in protein. Not by all that much though.
Just some suggestions.
In short: You need to eat complex, good carbs post workout. And lots of them. In the post workout drink, get lots of fast carbs and some protein, no fat.
YIP
Zack
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lol...isnt that what I posted??????/// ::)
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I'm slated to be on a schedule where my pw shake comes as soon as I finish training of whey, dextrose and pie filling. 1 scoop whey, 50g of each carb source. Then within that "magic window of 45 minutes, I kick in another scoop of whey, another 50g of dext, and drop the pie filling for a cup of oats. Then one hour later, I have a good size meal of a meat with a little more fats (dozen eggs, using 2-3 yolks, or salmon and chicken etc.) and 2 cups of rice. THEN..........I have a boatload of almonds/walnuts with a cup of cottage cheese and a casein shake as I crawl into bed. Long story short, what do you think about this magical approach for someone trying to put on some lean mass, at 6'2, 170lbs? Time frame from the time I drop the last set weight till the time I climb into bed in 6pm - 930/10pm.........thoughts?
I used this method after my layoff. You want to drink the dextrose first, in my case I opted for apple juice, then down your whey. Later on I switched to oatmeal and cherry pie filling. 1/4 cup of oatmeal, 1/4 to 1/2 cup of pie filling, but I took slin.
Breakast constisted of 10 egg whites 2 olks fried, 2 pieces of toast with sugar jam 2 tbs,this taken along with apple juice after workouts, later on I switch to oatmeal and scramble my eggs, and use oatmeal instead of toast.
But what time do you get up in the morning? Climb into bed at 6pm? Damn bro early.
Maybe you need to wind down at 6pm and cut off meals until your pre bed meal.
Yeah the cottage cheese and almonds/chashews taste good throw in sugar free jelly and it's great as a sugar craver,cottage cheese in form is hard and takes long to digest, so casein is fine I just take in egg and whey mix,and let the cottage cheese stand in for the casein.
Hope the new outlook does good, just stick to it, takes some time to see results but you will like the results of the pie filling, taste good and fills you up muscles and stomach, so your not to hungry all the time.
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lol...isnt that what I posted??????/// ::)
Sorry mate.
I might have misread you, looked to be a bit low on the carbs in the meals postworkout, and overall fairly low carb too.
JMO
YIP
Zack
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it's almost 2,200 cals in 4 meals within 2 hours.....i'm only 160.....but at 6'2, guess thats sad!
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ur on the right track lots of clean food min every 2hrs, short 30-50min VERY intense workouts. u cant go wrong! I also went through the same thing beeing 5'11 190lbs and droping to 160lbs. I was doing army servival training =Under eating and marathon cardio.
I just got back up to 185lbs cut so dont sweat it u'll get back there np! It's a sucky feeling tho i know!
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it sounds like your trainer has a plan...
but, I'd say take 2 weeks off and eat all the goddamn fast food you want and stop looking in the mirror. You can't peak 24/7
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NO TWO WEEKS OFF, but I def. need to stop looking in the mirror! and stay off the scales...once a week max....but no fast food for me dude....Clean 100%, 20 minutes for a cheat once a week............
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From overtrained triathlete....to stepping on a stage in 15 months! Dude, I haven't read all the posts but have you sat back and asked yourself if your head is right? I don't mean this sacrcastically, but you are asking a lot (probably too much) from yourself and you don't seem to realize it. I think if you are as manic as you sound, you are just going to implode or get hurt. You even hint at it in the thread title ('screwed'). Take care. Take it easy, and as they say 'make haste, slowly.'
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eat alot of clean cut meals...eat every 2 to 3 hours and take it easy in the gym...try some weight ganier i guess then try leaning out.
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i dont think naturals should try the bulking thing. they can get a little bit fatter but not way way over eat or eat way more carbs than they need.
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if your trying to diet, should you eat when your not hungry, low carb, high protein stuff and shakes when your not hungry, or just wait till you are hungry..
2nd, gibber remember your pic.. who are you to be giving advice.
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Who the hell is trying to diet????? I'm 166 on my new diet...up 6lbs in a week...seems like the diet is spot on, just can't be missing meals!!!
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so what? i gained more fat than i should doing just that. eating too much. what does my picture matter anyway... in case you didn't notice i gained like 65 pounds.
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and I gained 6 on this diet.....looks pretty ideal to meal...maybe will have to up the macros when the weight stops.....good clean diet is all it takes!
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when i was trying to gain i'd obsess with the scale and ended up getting a lot fatter than i wanted. i was like YEAH! I'm 192 but i'm the same size now and i'm 179. for lugar though since he's been big before if he does the right stuff he'll gain back muscle pretty fast.
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THEN I SHOULD BE GOOD TO GO.....JUST WEIGHING MYSELF ONCE A WEEK IN THE AM, OR MAYBE TWICE AND AVG. M AND FRIDAY...TODAY WAS 166....STAYING AWAY FROM ALL MIRRORS!
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THEN I SHOULD BE GOOD TO GO.....JUST WEIGHING MYSELF ONCE A WEEK IN THE AM, OR MAYBE TWICE AND AVG. M AND FRIDAY...TODAY WAS 166....STAYING AWAY FROM ALL MIRRORS!
Dude, are you all there? Forget the scale; that's just numbers and will drive you more crazy than you are. The mirror will tell you when you're ready; you'll know. Get it the fuck together. ;)
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if that was the case, I'd be done right now.....abs fade every night.......yet the scale only has moved 5lbs
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sounds like you're doing the right thing Lugar
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you can also measure your progress by your strength going up. if someone gains 5 pounds they should also get a lot stronger. i've gained no weight in a long time and i've gotten stronger.
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if your trying to diet, should you eat when your not hungry, low carb, high protein stuff and shakes when your not hungry, or just wait till you are hungry..
2nd, gibber remember your pic.. who are you to be giving advice.
that was a question.
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I can very damn well give advice from experience. You just run your mouth but don't even read what i say. there is nothing wrong with anything i've said and anyone who knows anything knows that. In my pictures here i show a 40+ pound of muscle gain. You haven't done that in your life... where are your pictures anyway? If you don't believe me despite the pictures being here I'll spell it out for you. The way before picture shows me at 120 pounds. If i was 12% bodyfat there which is a very high estimate then my lean weight would be between 105 and 106. My other pics are me at 185 or so. If you wanna estimate my bodyfat high again let's say 16% that would have my lean weight be 155 or 156. that's 50 pounds of lean body mass. how would you do if you were 108 pounds at 5'9" before you picked up a weight? you'd have quit already or been on steroids in the first year. I don't remember so well but I think I've seen pictures of you Jaimie and you're fat so what's up? Now my weight is 179 and i'm stronger than i was at 192 possibly with more muscle.
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i dont think naturals should try the bulking thing. they can get a little bit fatter but not way way over eat or eat way more carbs than they need.
I think it's more important for naturals to bulk. in the 7 years i trained natural the only time i made gains was when i ate like a horse and trained really heavy with low volume.
to gain muscle naturaly you will have to gain fat...
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yea but what happens when it comes time to shed a lot of fat? people who focus on the scale think they gain a lot of muscle but it's mostly fat.
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yea but what happens when it comes time to shed a lot of fat? people who focus on the scale think they gain a lot of muscle but it's mostly fat.
Speaking from experience huh?... ;D
i got up to 232 all natural and once i shed the fat in a correct manner i was 189 pounds and ripped...i started lifting at around 160-170 pounds with no visible abs so i think a know a few dieting and bulking tips. i was natural for 7 years and i've competed.
you can speculate all you want but you have not done it so you don't know whats going to happen when you shed all your fat...remember you have a progress thread that we have all seen. not flaming you but you are in no position to question anything.
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what are we talking about here exactly? at this point whenever i do fatloss i do it until i am reasonably lean and try to gain some mass again. it wouldn't be so hot if i got ripped at like 165. i've got more growing to do. and you had to lose like 40 pounds to compete.... that was FAT.
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what are we talking about here exactly? at this point whenever i do fatloss i do it until i am reasonably lean and try to gain some mass again. it wouldn't be so hot if i got ripped at like 165. i've got more growing to do. and you had to lose like 40 pounds to compete.... that was FAT.
reread the posts, i'm not going to think and comprehend for you.
Of course i was fat, i never said i wasn't. that is how you get big and strong as a natural. benched 370 natural, pulled 515 natural, squated 465 natural. once i dropped the fat i "intentionally" gained i was the best man on stage. most "good" bodybuilders lose 20-40 pounds before a competition. how bout you?
i guess my point is you are like that boy candidate, all talk and no actual real experience. in fact, i find it hard to believe you lift weights by your pics. i see you giving advice on here but you look like nothing. i see 16 year olds at the gym doing pushups with better builds.
now that i powerlift i stay around 220-230 pounds with veins and abs, 30" waist. i compete in IPF, APA and WABDL competitions. i also have a closet full of trophys.
try to stick to what you know, i'm not sure what that is but bodybuilding sure isn't it...calling someone fat is quite comical, i laughed a good moment. look in the mirror.
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meltdown. what i'm saying dude is that getting up to that weight compared to the size that you started wasn't such a big deal. i never said anything about you not knowing what you are doing. as far as you saying that i was speaking from experience? hell yeah. i got fatter than i wanted to be by obsessing over size. it can easily happen to anyone and there's no need for naturals to "bulk" to the point of having to lose more than 30 pounds. you can't pig out uncontrolably and think that it's all gonna be muscle. why are you even talking about how i look? i've made a lot of progress. how would you like it if you were under 120 pounds before you lifted a weight. from what you said it looks like you were about the size i am now when you started training... it's nice to have much better genetics than someone else and then say they don't know anything. from my posts here i have shown that i do know what i'm saying. you're just taking shots at me but not talking about anything in particular.
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You fucking always managed to bombard my threads dood....please, I've really asked you once already...enough...
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sorry. i'm just defending myself against these guys