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Title: Question re: the latest turmoil in the Middle East
Post by: Butterbean on July 14, 2006, 07:49:35 PM
I had a phone call today from a gal with which I used to really enjoy talking about bible prophecy (particularly what is to come).

She asked me if I felt something in my "spirit" about what is happening in Israel/Syria/etc right now. 

I'd like to know if any other Christians are feeling (spiritually and/or otherwise) that this latest turmoil is something more than what we are used to hearing about....


I'd also appreciate non-Christians expressing their feelings on this issue.


Thanks all :)
Title: Re: Question for the Christians re: the latest turmoil in the Middle East
Post by: Al-Gebra on July 14, 2006, 11:49:14 PM
Stella, do you remember the Crusades? 11th thru 13th century, focused on Jerusalem--the antagonists were Europeans and Muslims.  Syria, Lebanon, and Palestine were Christian then . . . it seemed like all the pieces were in place. Hugely charismatic leaders like Richard Lionheart and Saladin to give your average apocalypse-minded Christian all the feelings her "spirit" could wish for. 

if you study the crusades, many strange things happened . . . but tell your friend that contrary to expectations, the world didn't end then . . . and it probably isn't going to end now. 

People like to think they live in really significant times . . . and with all the weapons we have now, everything is meaningful, but i don't think we have to worry about the whore of babylon riding through the sky just yet.

btw, stella . . . in case the world is ending, i think you should take the opportunity to post a picture of yourself in your favorite dress in the fall fashions thread.
Title: Re: Question for the Christians re: the latest turmoil in the Middle East
Post by: Dos Equis on July 15, 2006, 12:23:18 AM
I think it's nothing more than the "wars and rumors of wars" that the Bible talks about. 
Title: Re: Question for the Christians re: the latest turmoil in the Middle East
Post by: Butterbean on July 15, 2006, 06:43:55 AM
Stella, do you remember the Crusades?

How old do you think I am >:(........ ;D




btw, stella . . . in case the world is ending, i think you should take the opportunity to post a picture of yourself in your favorite dress in the fall fashions thread.

I did!!! Check it out :D



Title: Re: Question for the Christians re: the latest turmoil in the Middle East
Post by: Purge_WTF on July 15, 2006, 07:01:11 AM
  Mar 13:8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these [are] the beginnings of sorrows.


  Luk 21:9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end [is] not by and by.

  Luk 21:10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.


  Ezekiel 38 and 39 also describes the failed siege on Israel and the Jews that will occur in the end-times.
Title: Re: Question re: the latest turmoil in the Middle East
Post by: Butterbean on July 15, 2006, 08:08:03 AM
Thanks for those PurgeWTF :)



Signs pointing to Christ's return?

Israel’s rebirth. As Jesus prophesied, the Jews were scattered during the Jewish-Roman war of A.D. 70 (Luke 21:24). Also prophesied to occur before Christ’s return, the nation of Israel was miraculously reborn on May 14, 1948. Israel is called “God’s time clock.”


Plummeting morality. Studies show a shocking breakdown just since mid-century (2 Timothy 3:1-4).


Famines, violence, and wars. Jesus said the signs before his return would come as intensifying birth pangs, seeing increased famines, violence and wars, a clear picture of our planet (Matthew 24:6-8).  One of six people on earth suffers from hunger. Violence is epidemic. A study of wars since 500 B.C. shows a recent dramatic increase. More than 100 conflicts have erupted since 1990, about twice the number for previous decades.


Increase in earthquakes. Also prophesized to be as birth pangs (Matthew 24:7), a recent study shows a dramatic increase in earthquakes worldwide, just since the decade of Israel’s rebirth. Between 1920 and 1990, a 70-year span, there were 10 major earthquakes.  But in 1990 to the year 2005, a 15-year span, we have had 13 major earthquakes." (Associated Press) The U.S. Geological Survey data shows in 2000, there were 22,,256 recorded earthquakes worldwide but steadily increased to 31,199 earthquakes in 2004. (WorldNetDaily)


Explosion of travel and education. Two key conditions described about 2,500 years ago for the Second Coming are that “travel and education shall be vastly increased” (Daniel 12:4, Living Bible).  In all of history, the vast increase in travel has come just since mid-century with the explosion of both ground and air transportation; in education, with the advance of science and computers.

Explosion of cults and the occult. Counterfeit spirituality is everywhere with cults and false Christs (Matthew 24:24), psychic phenomena, spiritism, Satan worship, witchcraft, nature worship and the New Age movement (1 Timothy 4:1).

The New World Order. Increased centralization of world financial and political power is a prelude to the soon-coming world power system in the hands of the “Antichrist,” who will be the incarnation of Satan and who will deceive most of the world (Daniel 7-12, Matthew 24:15, Revelation 13).

Increase in both apostasy and faith.  The Bible predicts in the last days, “A form of godliness, although they have denied its power” (2 Timothy 3:5). Today, many churches deny the eternal truths of Scripture and power of the Holy Spirit, replacing them with ungodly, temporal and “politically correct” values.  But also, a prophesied outpouring of God’s Spirit is causing hundreds of millions worldwide to come to true faith in Christ in record numbers, virtually unnoticed by the media.


Title: Re: Question re: the latest turmoil in the Middle East
Post by: Dos Equis on July 15, 2006, 10:28:41 AM
Definitely all signs that things are winding down.  It looks like the only thing left is this:

"And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come." 

Matthew 24:15
Title: Re: Question re: the latest turmoil in the Middle East
Post by: OzmO on July 15, 2006, 10:36:24 AM
Definitely all signs that things are winding down.  It looks like the only thing left is this:

"And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come." 

Matthew 24:15

What about the rapture?  The one without Enoch.    ???

And isn't the Jewish temple supposed to be rebuilt beofre all this happens?
Title: Re: Question re: the latest turmoil in the Middle East
Post by: Butterbean on July 15, 2006, 11:18:50 AM
What about the rapture?  The one without Enoch.    ???

And isn't the Jewish temple supposed to be rebuilt beofre all this happens?

Yes. 

Rapture (which is the return in the air of Christ to "catch away" the believers [nothing more needs to take place before this happens]) ....then

7 year Tribulation (during which this time the temple will be rebuilt) which begins w/a peace treaty -land for "peace"-    the first 3 1/2 years of the trib will be relative (or a false) peace and the last 3 1/2 will be after antichrist takes over.......that's gonna be a terrible time.....then

At the end of the 7 year trib, the battle of
Armaggedon....then

And then the PHYSICAL return of Christ to earth for about 1000 years....

then...new heaven and new earth 

OK, any questions?  ;D




Title: Re: Question re: the latest turmoil in the Middle East
Post by: Dos Equis on July 15, 2006, 12:36:35 PM
Yes. 

Rapture (which is the return in the air of Christ to "catch away" the believers [nothing more needs to take place before this happens]) ....then

7 year Tribulation (during which this time the temple will be rebuilt) which begins w/a peace treaty -land for "peace"-    the first 3 1/2 years of the trib will be relative (or a false) peace and the last 3 1/2 will be after antichrist takes over.......that's gonna be a terrible time.....then

At the end of the 7 year trib, the battle of
Armaggedon....then

And then the PHYSICAL return of Christ to earth for about 1000 years....

then...new heaven and new earth 

OK, any questions?  ;D






Yes.  Where exactly is this rapture in the Bible?   :)
Title: Re: Question re: the latest turmoil in the Middle East
Post by: Butterbean on July 15, 2006, 01:04:15 PM
Yes.  Where exactly is this rapture in the Bible?   :)

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17:

"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, w/a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.  AFter that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.  And so we will be with the Lord forever."

Title: Re: Question re: the latest turmoil in the Middle East
Post by: OzmO on July 15, 2006, 09:56:51 PM
Aren't they (jews) supposed to build the temple where the muslims anve their temple mound?
Title: Re: Question re: the latest turmoil in the Middle East
Post by: Dos Equis on July 16, 2006, 02:56:38 AM
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17:

"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, w/a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.  AFter that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.  And so we will be with the Lord forever."



If the rapture is supposed to be secret, how does that jive with a loud voice, trumpets, people rising from the dead, and people ascending to meet Christ in the air?  Unless you're not talking about the traditional rapture belief (i.e., a secret plucking away of select believers)? 
Title: Re: Question re: the latest turmoil in the Middle East
Post by: ToxicAvenger on July 16, 2006, 09:51:15 AM

Quote
the koran says something like "the sun shall rize in the east"






http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/971016.html

i meant west...... dammit
Title: Re: Question re: the latest turmoil in the Middle East
Post by: Al-Gebra on July 17, 2006, 02:17:00 AM
Yes.  Where exactly is this rapture in the Bible?   :)

she's also a pre-tribulationist

Mat.24:29-31. look it up, stella  :P

Title: Re: Question re: the latest turmoil in the Middle East
Post by: Colossus_500 on July 17, 2006, 06:08:50 AM
I do think we're living in the end times, but like the scriptures read (Matthew 24), not even the angels in heaven know when the time will come.  All we can do is speculate at best.  All I know is I just want to be ready when that time comes.  Lord, please take me home with you.
Title: Re: Question re: the latest turmoil in the Middle East
Post by: Butterbean on July 17, 2006, 10:58:57 AM
she's also a pre-tribulationist

Mat.24:29-31. look it up, stella  :P



Let's just say I'm HOPING for a pre-trib rapture....or at least, a pre-wrath one..... ;D

I can see in some scriptures that what some people take as being a pre-trib or pre-wrath rapture, others can take it as a type of "rapture" at the end of the battle of Armaggedon. 

Does anyone here think that may be the case? 
Title: Re: Question re: the latest turmoil in the Middle East
Post by: Purge_WTF on July 17, 2006, 04:47:12 PM
Let's just say I'm HOPING for a pre-trib rapture....or at least, a pre-wrath one..... ;D

I can see in some scriptures that what some people take as being a pre-trib or pre-wrath rapture, others can take it as a type of "rapture" at the end of the battle of Armaggedon. 

Does anyone here think that may be the case? 

  I believe it to be a pre-Trib event.
Title: Re: Question re: the latest turmoil in the Middle East
Post by: Cavalier22 on July 18, 2006, 09:23:14 PM
WW II seemed like a good possibility to be the end of the world at the time, I would imagine. 

Have you guys ever read that book "Dawn" by a holocaust survivor? 
Title: Re: Question re: the latest turmoil in the Middle East
Post by: Al-Gebra on July 18, 2006, 10:42:47 PM
Let's just say I'm HOPING for a pre-trib rapture....or at least, a pre-wrath one..... ;D

I can see in some scriptures that what some people take as being a pre-trib or pre-wrath rapture, others can take it as a type of "rapture" at the end of the battle of Armaggedon. 

Does anyone here think that may be the case? 

i don't think we're going to get lucky with a pre-wrath wrap . . . God wants to see what you're really made of, stella . . . refiner's fire. 
Title: Re: Question re: the latest turmoil in the Middle East
Post by: Butterbean on July 19, 2006, 06:23:50 AM
i don't think we're going to get lucky with a pre-wrath wrap . . . God wants to see what you're really made of, stella . . . refiner's fire. 

Well, just in case I better start playing Duke Nukem again to hone my skills  :)


  I believe it to be a pre-Trib event.

Yeah, it doesn't make any sense for it to be post Armageddon does it? 

If Christ raptures every believer after the battle, who will be left in regular bodies to populate the earth during the Millenium?

But a lot of people don't believe there will be a "rapture" at all.


Title: Re: Question re: the latest turmoil in the Middle East
Post by: Butterbean on July 19, 2006, 06:26:03 AM
WW II seemed like a good possibility to be the end of the world at the time, I would imagine. 

Have you guys ever read that book "Dawn" by a holocaust survivor? 

No, Cavalier...do you suggest it?  Can you give us a summary please?

(I just finished reading "The Hiding Place" again by Corrie Ten Boom - makes you pretty grateful)
Title: Re: Question re: the latest turmoil in the Middle East
Post by: Colossus_500 on July 19, 2006, 06:36:59 AM
Quote from: STella
(I just finished reading "The Hiding Place" again by Corrie Ten Boom - makes you pretty grateful)

Stella, I heard that book was awesome.  I've heard her testimony.  POWERFUL!!!! 

Just last night I was singing a praise song when I got back from the gym and was helping get the kids ready for dinner.

You are my hiding place
You always fill my heart
With songs of deliverance
Whenever I am afraid
I will trust in You
I will trust in You
Let the weak say I am strong
In the strength of the Lord
I will trust in You


Ever heard that song before?
Title: Re: Question re: the latest turmoil in the Middle East
Post by: Al-Gebra on July 19, 2006, 09:16:39 AM
(I just finished reading "The Hiding Place" again by Corrie Ten Boom - makes you pretty grateful)

ah, the christian canon . . . I swear my parents had like 15 copies of that book laying around the house when I was growing up.

did you know there is even a comic book version?
Title: Re: Question re: the latest turmoil in the Middle East
Post by: blinky on July 20, 2006, 01:51:51 AM
chrisitianity and the end times were told to me my whole life by my mom.

from what she has said(and she knows her stuff fairly well) that we ARE in the end times.

some things i have been told that need to happen first OR are indicators of the end......

1) syria needs to be involved
2) the antichrist will come out of Rome. after the current pope the next will be a defector(but not the anti-christ). due to these 2 things something that closely resembles the old Roman empire will return and fight for control.
3) the new world order(which i believe is what is happening right now in europe). the anit-christ will come from here.
Title: Re: Question re: the latest turmoil in the Middle East
Post by: blinky on July 20, 2006, 02:35:09 AM

And isn't the Jewish temple supposed to be rebuilt beofre all this happens?

according to my mom its being built now..for the last couple years
Title: Re: Question re: the latest turmoil in the Middle East
Post by: blinky on July 20, 2006, 02:42:58 AM
stella, i was talking to my mom while typing this and she was very impressed with your knowledge  ;)
Title: Re: Question re: the latest turmoil in the Middle East
Post by: Butterbean on July 20, 2006, 06:31:00 AM
Stella, I heard that book was awesome.  I've heard her testimony.  POWERFUL!!!! 

Just last night I was singing a praise song when I got back from the gym and was helping get the kids ready for dinner.

You are my hiding place
You always fill my heart
With songs of deliverance
Whenever I am afraid
I will trust in You
I will trust in You
Let the weak say I am strong
In the strength of the Lord
I will trust in You


Ever heard that song before?

I don't know if I've ever heard that song before buddyro...but I like the lyrics :)



did you know there is even a comic book version?

I had no idea!  That's a good idea though.

stella, i was talking to my mom while typing this and she was very impressed with your knowledge  ;)


Blinky, studying end-time prophecy is one of the things that played a big part in me getting saved....obviously I don't know it all though :)

Does your mom believe the rapture to be a factual event?  If so, is she pre-trib?

Do you have any links on the temple being built?  That is HUGE.  For some reason I thought it was going to be either quite near or ON the land where the "dome of the rock" sits now....but that may have just been some author's opinion that I read.



Title: Re: Question re: the latest turmoil in the Middle East
Post by: Butterbean on July 20, 2006, 06:47:18 AM


from what she has said(and she knows her stuff fairly well) that we ARE in the end times.

some things i have been told that need to happen first OR are indicators of the end......

1) syria needs to be involved
2) the antichrist will come out of Rome. after the current pope the next will be a defector(but not the anti-christ). due to these 2 things something that closely resembles the old Roman empire will return and fight for control.
3) the new world order(which i believe is what is happening right now in europe). the anit-christ will come from here.

1)   Yes Syria for sure will be involved.  In fact before "the end" (which I believe you're  referring to the battle of Armageddon [which is right before the start of the millenium-which will be great!]), does your mom think that Damascus will be annihilated..... Isa 17:1?

2)   Your mom thinks the next pope will be the false prophet?  I believe that is possible!

Title: Re: Question re: the latest turmoil in the Middle East
Post by: blinky on July 20, 2006, 01:58:49 PM

Does your mom believe the rapture to be a factual event?  If so, is she pre-trib?



ya its something that will actually happen.
dont know about the pre-trib

Do you have any links on the temple being built?  That is HUGE.  For some reason I thought it was going to be either quite near or ON the land where the "dome of the rock" sits now....but that may have just been some author's opinion that I read.



sorry  i dont have any links. all i know is that its being/will be built where the last one was. not sure exactly where that is
Title: Re: Question re: the latest turmoil in the Middle East
Post by: blinky on July 21, 2006, 03:04:26 AM
stella, what do you consider to be the start of Armegeddon?
Title: Re: Question re: the latest turmoil in the Middle East
Post by: Butterbean on July 21, 2006, 06:23:03 AM
stella, what do you consider to be the start of Armegeddon?

Hi Blinky!

How far out from the battle do you mean?  LIke, with the formation of a United Confederacy from 10 nations in the Mediterranean, the eventual leader of which will negotiate a "peace" settlement in the Middle East?  (right before the start of the tribulation)

...or do you mean like, right before the battle, when armies from throughout the world converge on the Middle East...heading to the Mount of Meggido?


Hey Blinky, ask your mom to look at this website, and tell me what she thinks please:

www.christssoonreturn.co m

Title: Re: Question re: the latest turmoil in the Middle East
Post by: blinky on July 23, 2006, 08:27:53 PM
Hi Blinky!

How far out from the battle do you mean?  LIke, with the formation of a United Confederacy from 10 nations in the Mediterranean, the eventual leader of which will negotiate a "peace" settlement in the Middle East?  (right before the start of the tribulation)

...or do you mean like, right before the battle, when armies from throughout the world converge on the Middle East...heading to the Mount of Meggido?


Hey Blinky, ask your mom to look at this website, and tell me what she thinks please:

www.christssoonreturn.co m



i dont know the bible well enough to really comment on the specifics you mentioned. some people believe that armageddeon starts when christ makes his return. others believe that it starts later after the 7yrs. was just wondering on what you thought.


sorry but my mom still lives inthe stone ages and doesnt have a computer or know anything about them  ;D. she was amazed when i was explaining this site to her.
Title: Re: Question re: the latest turmoil in the Middle East
Post by: Butterbean on July 24, 2006, 05:13:27 AM
i dont know the bible well enough to really comment on the specifics you mentioned. some people believe that armageddeon starts when christ makes his return. others believe that it starts later after the 7yrs. was just wondering on what you thought.


sorry but my mom still lives inthe stone ages and doesnt have a computer or know anything about them  ;D. she was amazed when i was explaining this site to her.

Was she amazed when you explained your avatar to her? :P   ;D


I think everything is set into motion w/the signing of the peace treaty.  The actual battle will happen 7 years after that.
Title: Re: Question re: the latest turmoil in the Middle East
Post by: Purge_WTF on July 24, 2006, 06:11:10 AM
Was she amazed when you explained your avatar to her? :P  ;D


I think everything is set into motion w/the signing of the peace treaty.  The actual battle will happen 7 years after that.

  If I remember correctly, the Antichrist breaks his peace treaty after three-and-a-half years and that's when all hell breaks loose.
Title: Re: Question re: the latest turmoil in the Middle East
Post by: blinky on July 24, 2006, 02:28:37 PM
Was she amazed when you explained your avatar to her? :P   ;D


 ;) ...hahaha
Title: Re: Question re: the latest turmoil in the Middle East
Post by: Butterbean on July 25, 2006, 06:36:40 AM
  If I remember correctly, the Antichrist breaks his peace treaty after three-and-a-half years and that's when all hell breaks loose.

Yes. The bowls and the seals etc.... :o
Title: Re: Question re: the latest turmoil in the Middle East
Post by: knny187 on August 03, 2006, 09:49:36 AM
I had a phone call today from a gal with which I used to really enjoy talking about bible prophecy (particularly what is to come).

She asked me if I felt something in my "spirit" about what is happening in Israel/Syria/etc right now. 

I'd like to know if any other Christians are feeling (spiritually and/or otherwise) that this latest turmoil is something more than what we are used to hearing about....


I'd also appreciate non-Christians expressing their feelings on this issue.


Thanks all :)

Until the human race is exterminated.....

it's in our nature to destroy everything we love & everything we hate.

I don't see anything different happening in the Middle East that hasn't been happening for the past thousands of years.