Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Crusher on July 19, 2006, 11:02:30 AM
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This is for all you delusional Flex guys who think your rag is thriving.
According to ABC (Audit Bureau of Circulation) Year end numbers for Flex magazine show a total circulation decline of 9.6%. This is represents a 7.3% drop in news stand sales and a 13.4% drop in subscriptions.
To make matters worse, I have it from a reliable source in the magazine distribution biz (my uncle) that the word on the street is that the numbers due out in August - which will reflect first quarter 06 circulation - will show a 15% drop in news stand sales.
The asking price for the combo of M&F and Flex is reportedly $200 Million, with Flex representing 40 - 50 mill. That equates to about 13 times gross. Even for a thriving company 13 times gross is hard to get. You sell a company when it is doing well, not in the toilet.
I hope whoever is interested in buying these mags does more due diligence than just having their accountant look over the books. A fair price for Flex in its current state would be 7 -8 million, at best. Hopfully, someone with the kind of heart Joe Weider had will step up and buy these mags for what they are really worth and do what it takes to bring back the dignity Pecker destroyed.
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hhahaha okay "crusher" hahahaha
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do what it takes to bring back the dignity Pecker destroyed.
Yeah, run "Musclehedz" in a big size again. Shrinking it like that took away our dignity.
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The only way it would be dignified would be to have it read like the old physical culture and strength magazines of the past.
Nobody gives a f**k how Phil Heath trains because it is all steroids anyway. People are sick of it and don`t care to read it.
Do you have a copie of the old mags? There is 99% advertisement. Thats even worse than now! But I agree people want believable champions on the cover like myself.
YOU HEAR SHAWN PERINE AND PETER MCGOUGH!! YOU WANT TO SAVE YOUR BELOVED MAG GET ME ON THE COVER WITH A COUPLE OF NAKED CHICKSS!!
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All physique magazines will need to adapt to the internet age or will disappear.
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Nobody gives a f**k how Phil Heath trains because it is all steroids anyway. People are sick of it and don`t care to read it.
you got that right. I saw a female pro BB in my gym yesterday. offseason, mind you. doing some monster 30 pound DB military presses for 6 reps. brutal bacne too.
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Nobody gives a f**k how Phil Heath trains because it is all steroids anyway.
Well, that and Met-RX's line of nutritional supplements.
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All physique magazines will need to adapt to the internet age or will disappear.
Without the internet and guys such as myself and 240 or Bust. these delusional people would run amok with their lies. The internet keeps this whole thing real and in perspective.
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Without the internet and guys such as myself and 240 or Bust. these delusional people would run amok with their lies. The internet keeps this whole thing real and in perspective.
LOL... imagine the Bob Chic puff pieces we'd read in FLEX... claiming all these victories over PDI tyranny lol...
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Back in the day all I would read/buy is Flex,
Muscular Development has gotten soo much better!
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LOL... imagine the Bob Chic puff pieces we'd read in FLEX... claiming all these victories over PDI tyranny lol...
hahahahah sued.
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The only way it would be dignified would be to have it read like the old physical culture and strength magazines of the past.
Nobody gives a f**k how Phil Heath trains because it is all steroids anyway. People are sick of it and don`t care to read it.
So true. they always make it look like they have studied years to know how to stimulate muscle growth.. all genetics. easy as that. and with drugs they are "champions".
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Flex need some of those razor sharp images of Adonis deadlifting! And that nude photo as a pullout-poster.
That would bring sales up.
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Flex need some of those razor sharp images of Adonis deadlifting! And that nude photo as a pullout-poster.
That would bring sales up.
Yes!
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haha, COLT probably gets more subscriptions than Flex.
I think a bodybuilding mag in the same format as Colt would do well: heavy paper, 60-80 pages, stapled, 90% full page photos, no ads or perhaps only a few pages in the middle, even an insert easily removed, $15 an issue, quarterly. The emphasis would be on photo journalism: contest coverage, up and coming athletes, as well as established ones.
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Thanks for the 411 John.
BTW- Loved the cooking show!
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Yes, thank you for the enlightenmen, you bastion of truth.
impavid delusions of grandeur
Without the internet and guys such as myself and 240 or Bust. these delusional people would run amok with their lies. The internet keeps this whole thing real and in perspective.
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I think a bodybuilding mag in the same format as Colt would do well: heavy paper, 60-80 pages, stapled, 90% full page photos, no ads or perhaps only a few pages in the middle, even an insert easily removed, $15 an issue, quarterly. The emphasis would be on photo journalism: contest coverage, up and coming athletes, as well as established ones.
With each issue having a life-size poster of Tom Prince
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With each issue having a life-size poster of Tom Prince
"FLEX magazine almost died for you bittches!" >:(
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"FLEX magazine almost died for you bittches!" >:(
Flex was selling for a reasonable price, but they jack the price back up. I still read that shit anyway
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as i gift i've got a 5 year sub. to FLEX. as soon as pecker took over, the mag kinda sucked. all they did was have arnold features, like 2 training features, no new great research reports, etc.
but over the past year or so, its gotten much better. particularily, the part when a writer goes to a gym and records the actual workout and compiling a compilation of the best bodyparts etc. no other mag does that.
the pics are the best, but they could probably do away with the team FLEX bs and post some scientific stuff. but overall, i think they are doing a good job.
MD is good, but it has so much useless shit in there. Besides, who ever said you can ONLY have/read 1 bbing mag?
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All magazine subscriptions are down. It's the age of the internet. It has nothing to do with Flex, Pecker, Muscular Development competition, layout, or steroids.
Sports Illustrated, Time, Newsweek, ect...all way down.
The only way your magazine is up is if it was yet published 5 years ago.
End of story.
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hahahaha remember being 18 years old and attempting to casually buy a copy of Playboy. Those days are gone. all you need now is google.
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hahahaha remember being 18 years old and attempting to casually buy a copy of Playboy. Those days are gone. all you need now is google.
I hear you, brother.
If they'd had the Internet in the early 80s, I would never have left the house.
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Thanks for the 411 John.
BTW- Loved the cooking show!
Grow up Shari.....
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All magazine subscriptions are down. It's the age of the internet. It has nothing to do with Flex, Pecker, Muscular Development competition, layout, or steroids.
Sports Illustrated, Time, Newsweek, ect...all way down.
The only way your magazine is up is if it was yet published 5 years ago.
End of story.
Interesting post. What sources can you show us to back up your claims? Without a credible source your post is nothing more than opinion. My information shows otherwise.
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Flex still outsells the others by a wide margin. MuscleMag is #2. Ironman and MD are tied for last. Though no other mags have the courage to be audited, the numbers are well known in the supp industry, and they're pretty pathetic for the other mags. As Ron knows and has posted here, the reason why Flex gets over 5 times more per ad page than MD and Ironman is because they outsell them by that much.
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You are way off on your assumptions about how much Flex gets for Ad pages my friend. And if anyone is paying 5x more for an Ad in Flex over MD then they are being taken for a ride. Fact - You can get a page for $2000 in flex magazine. Do your homework and then fire your marketing guy for wasting your money and overpaying while everyone else is paying less.
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I hear you, brother.
If they'd had the Internet in the early 80s, I would never have left the house.
monster not being able to get a woman
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All magazine subscriptions are down. It's the age of the internet. It has nothing to do with Flex, Pecker, Muscular Development competition, layout, or steroids.
Sports Illustrated, Time, Newsweek, ect...all way down.
The only way your magazine is up is if it was yet published 5 years ago.
End of story.
very good point.
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And if anyone is paying 5x more for an Ad in Flex over MD then they are being taken for a ride.
It's the other way around, my friend. Flex is audited, MD isn't. True, ad numbers don't always equal sales (mags get whatever they can get), but if you believe MD hype that they're "closing the gap" you're being taken for a ride. As Ron posted, latest supp industry numbers had Flex at 120,000 and MD at 20,000. Last year, Flex was around 150,000 and MD was 40,000, so as a percentage basis they were closer, but not anymore. Flex fell more than others, but only because they started at a much higher number. As a percentage, they've fallen the least, and in pure numbers they're still way out ahead. The same is true, to an even greater degree, at Muscle & Fitness.
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i just happend to see it on ebay .01 starting bid
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Interesting post. What sources can you show us to back up your claims? Without a credible source your post is nothing more than opinion. My information shows otherwise.
How about the obvious?
Time, Newsweek, and Sports Illustraded used to 300 pages years ago. Now, they are only as thick as a Sunday department store ad.
If it was still profitable for them to produce larger publications, why wouldn't they? Think of all the ad revenues they are losing.
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The only way it would be dignified would be to have it read like the old physical culture and strength magazines of the past.
Nobody gives a f**k how Phil Heath trains because it is all steroids anyway. People are sick of it and don`t care to read it.
What I would like to see are ACTUAL training articles and photos. Not "posed" shit. I don't care if the lighting is poor or the gym is a dump. I rather have realism. Also no ghost written articles. Let the pro's actually write their training articles. That way you would get a real feel for what these guys are like. The articles Ronnie "writes" actually make him sound like a Rhodes Scholar. We know that isn't Ronnie. Have some good articles on training and diet for natural bodybuilders who after all are the majority. Don't insult our intelligence with shit like The Ramblin' Freak. Last but not least stop with the infomercial sales pitches passed off as articles.
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Time, Newsweek, and Sports Illustraded used to 300 pages years ago.
When was that??
No time I can recall in the last 30 years.
If you're talking about longer ago than that, the media landscape was so different then that it would be apples and oranges.
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When was that??
No time I can recall in the last 30 years.
If you're talking about longer ago than that, the media landscape was so different then that it would be apples and oranges.
Are you saying that those magazines were the size they are now 10 years ago?
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Are you saying that those magazines were the size they are now 10 years ago?
I'm saying that, to the best of my recollection, at no time in the past 30 years have they ever been 300 pages - which is what you claimed.
Are they skinnier than they used to be? It wouldn't surprise me - though I doubt the shrinkage is even as high as 20%. There are other mags - can't think of the names offhand - that are definitely a lot skimpier.
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What all these mags need to do is run an article on me:
http://www.phillipswi.com/bee/index.php?sect_rank=1&story_id=205864
...one of the world's biggest and most muscular natural bodybuilders, me, (who also happens to be a scientist) out there trying to discover the training secrets of a tribe of wild, 800 lb muscle men who don't take supplements, don't take steroids... don't even work out.
PM me guys, this is the biggest story in bodybuilding today... definitely cover material (if not a monthly column).
The Luke
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What all these mags need to do is run an article on me:
http://www.phillipswi.com/bee/index.php?sect_rank=1&story_id=205864
...one of the world's biggest and most muscular natural bodybuilders, me, (who also happens to be a scientist) out there trying to discover the training secrets of a tribe of wild, 800 lb muscle men who don't take supplements, don't take steroids... don't even work out.
PM me guys, this is the biggest story in bodybuilding today... definitely cover material (if not a monthly column).
The Luke
Once you meet Bigfoot do you expect him to ram your ass with a tree trunk of a woodle?
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Sorry Alexxx, can you pose that question in English?
The Luke
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Sorry Alexxx, can you pose that question in English?
The Luke
Ask sarcasm for an interpretation.
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With all the information on the internet for free and accessable anywhere, seriously who reads magazines anymore? About the only places I've read magazines in the past seven or eight years has been on airplanes and in my doctor's waiting room. And if I had to pay for them, I wouldn't have even read those.
Paper magazines have two remaining major markets: Old people who aren't completely comfortable with the internet, and poor-ass motherfucckers who can't afford internet access, yet spend money on gossip rags at the supermarket check-out line.
I suspect that once people born before 1965 or so start dying off, paper magazines will largely be a thing of the past, with the companies that used to publish them producing internet content, and relying on advertising for 100% of their revenue. Since they are no longer paying printing or distribution costs (big chunks of publishers' budgets), plus cutting out wholesalers and retailers, those who successfully transition to the new model should survive even without subscription revenue.
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It's the other way around, my friend. Flex is audited, MD isn't. True, ad numbers don't always equal sales (mags get whatever they can get), but if you believe MD hype that they're "closing the gap" you're being taken for a ride. As Ron posted, latest supp industry numbers had Flex at 120,000 and MD at 20,000. Last year, Flex was around 150,000 and MD was 40,000, so as a percentage basis they were closer, but not anymore. Flex fell more than others, but only because they started at a much higher number. As a percentage, they've fallen the least, and in pure numbers they're still way out ahead. The same is true, to an even greater degree, at Muscle & Fitness.
First of all, if you are going to participate in an intelligent debate, stating something so stupid as MD going from 40,000 copies to 20,000 copies, year to date, is about as close to a melt down as one can get. If you are going to grind your axe, don't be so obvious.
Next, "As Ron posted, latest supp industry numbers had Flex at 120,000 and MD at 20,000. Last year, Flex was around 150,000." That is total bullshit, my friend. Where is Ron getting his numbers? Doesn't Pecker let you guys read the ABC report? The June 19th, 2006 issue of New Single Copy stated that circulation numbers for Flex magazine, reported by the ABC, stated that for the 2nd half of 2005 that total circulation numbers for Flex magazine was only 112,000 not 150,000. (The ABC numbers were actually 111,640. NSC just rounded up).
That 111,640, like I said earlier, according to ABC, year end total circulation numbers for Flex magazine declined 9.6%! This represents a 7.3% drop in news stand sales and a 13.4% drop in subscriptions! Next time get your facts straight...
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It's the other way around, my friend. Flex is audited, MD isn't. True, ad numbers don't always equal sales (mags get whatever they can get), but if you believe MD hype that they're "closing the gap" you're being taken for a ride. As Ron posted, latest supp industry numbers had Flex at 120,000 and MD at 20,000. Last year, Flex was around 150,000 and MD was 40,000, so as a percentage basis they were closer, but not anymore. Flex fell more than others, but only because they started at a much higher number. As a percentage, they've fallen the least, and in pure numbers they're still way out ahead. The same is true, to an even greater degree, at Muscle & Fitness.
I guess you missed what I said completely? I was responding to your comment about Flex getting 5X more per Ad page over their competitors. Here let me repost for you.
You are way off on your assumptions about how much Flex gets for Ad pages my friend. And if anyone is paying 5x more for an Ad in Flex over MD then they are being taken for a ride. Fact - You can get a page for $2000 in flex magazine. Do your homework and then fire your marketing guy for wasting your money and overpaying while everyone else is paying less.
Where did I mention circulation? And as far as "mags getting whatever they can get" for pages, I would agree with you. And $2000 per page is about what Flex is able to get from those who know better.
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I suspect that once people born before 1965 or so start dying off, paper magazines will largely be a thing of the past, with the companies that used to publish them producing internet content, and relying on advertising for 100% of their revenue. Since they are no longer paying printing or distribution costs (big chunks of publishers' budgets), plus cutting out wholesalers and retailers, those who successfully transition to the new model should survive even without subscription revenue.
Very good analysis. Being involved in the printing industry I know this firsthand.
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For those who are not involved in the advertising, printing or publishing industries and would like to be enlightened about the future of advertising, or for those that are in it and may have missed this...
The End of Advertising and Media as We Have Known It
Why Tacoda CEO Dave Morgan Thinks Sir Martin Sorrell's Got it Wrong
By Dave Morgan, CEO of Tacoda
http://adage.com/digital/article.php?article_id=110442
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The only way it would be dignified would be to have it read like the old physical culture and strength magazines of the past.
Nobody gives a f**k how Phil Heath trains because it is all steroids anyway. People are sick of it and don`t care to read it.
Flex might wanna be a little hardcore. The truth is outthere and people dont expect any magazine to keep telling them some bullshit. I wonder why Flex kept a long distance from discussing about steroids in the sport we call "BODYBUILDING"
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Flex might wanna be a little hardcore. The truth is outthere and people dont expect any magazine to keep telling them some bullshit. I wonder why Flex kept a long distance from discussing about steroids in the sport we call "BODYBUILDING"
Because Ben Weider wanted it in the Olympics.
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Flex might wanna be a little hardcore. The truth is outthere and people dont expect any magazine to keep telling them some bullshit. I wonder why Flex kept a long distance from discussing about steroids in the sport we call "BODYBUILDING"
Perhaps, it's because other sports don't yap about ingesting pharmaceuticals. You aren't going to find Caddillac Williams' GH intake in a football magazine, or Tim Duncan's Winstrol consumption in a basketball magazine.
Because Ben Weider wanted it in the Olympics.
Truth be told, I was thrilled when Ben Weider got Olympic recognition for bodybuilding in 1998. It seemed to be just around the corner. Bodybuilding might have been an Olympic sport in 2008. But, alas, the rug got yanked from underneath Weider. The old IOC chairman retired and the guy who took his placed kicked bodybuilding out.
No doubt, that broke Ben's (and Joe's) heart.
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Bodybuilding is such an olympic sport ::)
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Bodybuilding is such an olympic sport ::)
Yeah much better than the rest of so called "sports"!
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as i gift i've got a 5 year sub. to FLEX. as soon as pecker took over, the mag kinda sucked. all they did was have arnold features, like 2 training features, no new great research reports, etc.
but over the past year or so, its gotten much better. particularily, the part when a writer goes to a gym and records the actual workout and compiling a compilation of the best bodyparts etc. no other mag does that.
the pics are the best, but they could probably do away with the team FLEX bs and post some scientific stuff. but overall, i think they are doing a good job.
MD is good, but it has so much useless shit in there. Besides, who ever said you can ONLY have/read 1 bbing mag?
That would probably be the so-called "hardcore, us-against-the-world, rebel-without-a-cause" types who feel that the evil Weider empire, embodied by FLEX magazine, is bent on keeping bodybuilding (or, at least, their favorite bodybuilder) down. Only Steve Blechman and MD, now freed from the oppresive chains of Twinlab (once owned by his own kinfolk), can "save" bodybuilding" from the clutches of the dreaded Weiders.
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Bodybuilding is such an olympic sport ::)
Ummmm...read what I posted again. Bodybuilding got Olympic recognition in 1998. It didn't become an Olympic sport. For that to have occured (and I'm going strictly from memory), an IOC review board would have had to take up the matter, to allow bodybuilding to participate as a "demonstration" event. After that, another IOC board would have convened to vote on whether bodybuilding should be made an official Olympic sport.
Getting Olympic recognition simply meant that bodybuilding was being considered. But, before the rest of the process could be entertained, the old IOC chairman retired and his successor kicked bodybuilding out.
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This is for all you delusional Flex guys who think your rag is thriving.
According to ABC (Audit Bureau of Circulation) Year end numbers for Flex magazine show a total circulation decline of 9.6%. This is represents a 7.3% drop in news stand sales and a 13.4% drop in subscriptions.
To make matters worse, I have it from a reliable source in the magazine distribution biz (my uncle) that the word on the street is that the numbers due out in August - which will reflect first quarter 06 circulation - will show a 15% drop in news stand sales.
The asking price for the combo of M&F and Flex is reportedly $200 Million, with Flex representing 40 - 50 mill. That equates to about 13 times gross. Even for a thriving company 13 times gross is hard to get. You sell a company when it is doing well, not in the toilet.
I hope whoever is interested in buying these mags does more due diligence than just having their accountant look over the books. A fair price for Flex in its current state would be 7 -8 million, at best. Hopfully, someone with the kind of heart Joe Weider had will step up and buy these mags for what they are really worth and do what it takes to bring back the dignity Pecker destroyed.
It's happening to almost anything you can get on the internet. Why wait 2 months for contest results when you can get them the same night of the show. Same for boxing mags. The store I used to get them at, Stop & Shop, doesn't even carry them anymore. The entire magazine rack is about 1/2 the size it was 2 years ago. Same thing for supplements, clothes for fat people who don't want people seeing them go in the Big Size store. Newspaper subscriptions are down, I just got a telemarketer selling the Providence Journal for 10 bucks a month, used to be 10 a week! It's the internet, I tell you.
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I think there's still a market for magazines. The turn off is the current format. Too many ads flood the magazine and it balloons to 300 pages of a mess. If you took all the ads out of Flex, condensed it to just content, then added 1/5 of the ads back and lumped them in the back of the magazine, people would love that format. But, that's wishful thinking, since the reliance on advertising money is out of control.
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I think there's still a market for magazines. The turn off is the current format. Too many ads flood the magazine and it balloons to 300 pages of a mess. If you took all the ads out of Flex, condensed it to just content, then added 1/5 of the ads back and lumped them in the back of the magazine, people would love that format. But, that's wishful thinking, since the reliance on advertising money is out of control.
Are you kidding? Advertising is predominantly how magazines make money dude. What's so out of control about a business staying afloat and trying to make a profit? Without Ads there would not be a Flex magazine in the first place.
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I would be interested in someone going back to 1986 and comparing FLEX (or whatever it was back then) to today's version.
Total number of pages vs. total number of ad pages. %
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I was so fcuking pissed the other day. After I got this copy of flex, after browsing through the magazine, it seems like half the mags is some fucking never ending ADS. I ALMOST NEVER BUY FLEX LIKE I USED TO ANYMORE
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The quality of pictures suck too.
I look at the pictures in the old magazines, and see great artistic images.
In the magazines today, there is none of that to be found.....Well that could be due to the fact that nobody posesses that kind of physique anymore with a small waist and balanced proportions and conditoning.
All the pictures in the magazines today are silly gym shots with nothing to them. I haven`t seen a memorable photo in a magazine in years.
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they charge 6 bucks an issue.
they have more ads than content ads.
their material is old.
it's like paying $59.99 a month to watch ESPN classic, then putting up with 30 minutes of commercials every hour.
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Grow up Shari.....
Lead the way and I'll follow, John.
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Has Flex, MD and the rest forgotten what good photos are?
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/grimek/jg167.jpg)
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Has Flex, MD and the rest forgotten what good photos are?
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/grimek/jg167.jpg)
what the fuck is that?
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what the f**k is that?
that is John Grimek, who founded Muscular Development. Sometimes it seem the MD staff has forgotten that.
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First of all, if you are going to participate in an intelligent debate, stating something so stupid as MD going from 40,000 copies to 20,000 copies, year to date, is about as close to a melt down as one can get. If you are going to grind your axe, don't be so obvious.
Next, "As Ron posted, latest supp industry numbers had Flex at 120,000 and MD at 20,000. Last year, Flex was around 150,000." That is total bullshit, my friend. Where is Ron getting his numbers? Doesn't Pecker let you guys read the ABC report? The June 19th, 2006 issue of New Single Copy stated that circulation numbers for Flex magazine, reported by the ABC, stated that for the 2nd half of 2005 that total circulation numbers for Flex magazine was only 112,000 not 150,000. (The ABC numbers were actually 111,640. NSC just rounded up).
That 111,640, like I said earlier, according to ABC, year end total circulation numbers for Flex magazine declined 9.6%! This represents a 7.3% drop in news stand sales and a 13.4% drop in subscriptions! Next time get your facts straight...
I suppose it's easy for you to claim that MD has picked up Flex readers since MD since you won't actually get audited by the ABC.
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Are you kidding? Advertising is predominantly how magazines make money dude. What's so out of control about a business staying afloat and trying to make a profit? Without Ads there would not be a Flex magazine in the first place.
The ads are out of control because they make up half the magazine. There's a balance between putting ads in the magazine to make profit and putting too many in and chasing off customers. Flex was better 15 years ago when there weren't so many ads.
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The ads are out of control because they make up half the magazine. There's a balance between putting ads in the magazine to make profit and putting too many in and chasing off customers. Flex was better 15 years ago when there weren't so many ads.
This guy sums it up pretty good, makes sense to me...
paper, printing, salaries, postal, photo shoots, writers, payment to be on the newsstand, etc. etc. etc. most magazines launched don't even make it past the first year, let alone see a profit until year 4 or 5. publishing is no cheap endeavor and when you're printing and shipping hundreds of thousands of magazines every month, multiple titles etc. the cost to do business adds up very fast.
ad prices in the category are actually not much higher than they were 5 years ago. the difference now is that there is a higher volume of ads being sold than before (MDs case, thus the 400 plus page magazines). to sit here and proclaim that any magazine is out of line for trying to make a profit (this is a business they are in after all) is completely ASSinine. if you're upset with any publication having too many ads, then you obviously do not understand how they run their business. the goal is a 50/50 ad to edit split for most magazines. count the ad pages in md, flex, whatever and then compare that number to their edit pages. you will find that most of the time you are looking at 50/50 or close.
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This guy sums it up pretty good, makes sense to me...
Agree, totally....