Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Tre on August 04, 2006, 08:42:09 PM
-
Any ideas?
I think the NPC would be better off without the IFBB.
-
I would say it is acronym related.
-
The formation of a pro division within the NPC would mean lower sanctioning fees for promoters, which should result in higher prize money for the competitors.
-
The formation of a pro division within the NPC would mean lower sanctioning fees for promoters, which should result in higher prize money for the competitors.
The guys who qualify for the pro div. could compete as one the day they win there "pro card".
-
The formation of a pro division within the NPC would mean lower sanctioning fees for promoters, which should result in higher prize money for the competitors.
Seems to me the IFBB would and should have an amateur organization to qualify for professional status, the NPC used to be the AAU (Amateur Athletic Union) thus the NPC is amature and should stay that way!
-
Seems to me the IFBB would and should have an amateur organization to qualify for professional status, the NPC used to be the AAU (Amateur Athletic Union) thus the NPC is amature and should stay that way!
The NPC and AAU are completely separate organizations (and the AAU is no longer involved in bodybuilding).
What I'm suggesting wouldn't change the present-day NPC amateur division at all - we'd still have all the same contests, pro qualifiers, promoters, judges, etc. The difference would be that, instead of going to the IFBB upon turning 'pro', a competitor would now have the option of going to the NPC Pro Division.
The NPC is a member-owned organization and that alone would be a huge advantage over what's presently available with the IFBB.
-
The NPC is a member Manion-owned organization and that alone would be a huge advantage over what's presently available with the IFBB.
Fixed.
-
Any ideas?
I think the NPC would be better off without the IFBB.
Jim Manion doesn't think they do.
-
Although I haven't heard it stated as such, I think the addition of an NPC show during the Arnold Fitness Weekend is a sign of great things to come.
What if the NPC Arnold grew into a pro qualifier and then - as was mentioned earlier in this thread - the Friday winners were able to compete as new pros on Saturday?
I *love* the potential this plan has.
-
The NPC and AAU are completely separate organizations (and the AAU is no longer involved in bodybuilding).
What I'm suggesting wouldn't change the present-day NPC amateur division at all - we'd still have all the same contests, pro qualifiers, promoters, judges, etc. The difference would be that, instead of going to the IFBB upon turning 'pro', a competitor would now have the option of going to the NPC Pro Division.
The NPC is a member-owned organization and that alone would be a huge advantage over what's presently available with the IFBB.
I do know that the AAU is not part of bodybuilding anymore, that changed in 1982 I believe. But now I understand what you are saying and it's a good idea, the only problem I would have is the NPC becoming as corrupt and fixed as the IFBB!
-
What if the NPC Arnold grew into a pro qualifier and then - as was mentioned earlier in this thread - the Friday winners were able to compete as new pros on Saturday?
This will NEVER happen! Jim Manion see's Lorimer's son as a real and present threat to his stature and position in the IFBB. I like Mike Davies, but he should be careful or Manion will think he's part of conspiracy, and that won't do well for Mike. He's got too much to lose if Manion drops the anvil on his working with the women.
Why do you think the Lorimer kid never got an NPC show in Columbus, even one that wasn't tied to the Arnold? Do you think that he just thought of it this year? Not on your life. It's because Manion didn't want it to be. Manion knows that the Lorimers are tied in HEAVILY with Arnold and Manion doesn't want Arnold showing up at an NPC show. That would ruin his stature and jeopardize most of his power. Oh, geez, was I supposed to leak this or not?
-
This will NEVER happen! Jim Manion see's Lorimer's son as a real and present threat to his stature and position in the IFBB. I like Mike Davies, but he should be careful or Manion will think he's part of conspiracy, and that won't do well for Mike. He's got too much to lose if Manion drops the anvil on his working with the women.
Why do you think the Lorimer kid never got an NPC show in Columbus, even one that wasn't tied to the Arnold? Do you think that he just thought of it this year? Not on your life. It's because Manion didn't want it to be. Manion knows that the Lorimers are tied in HEAVILY with Arnold and Manion doesn't want Arnold showing up at an NPC show. That would ruin his stature and jeopardize most of his power. Oh, geez, was I supposed to leak this or not?
This is one of the most humorous conspiracies I've heard in quite some time.
I will not profess to know the nature of the relationship between Jim Manion and Jim Lorimer, but I'd be willing to bet that it has been mutually beneficial for both men over the years.
I do not speak for Jim Manion, but I feel pretty certain that he'd be perfectly happy handling the day-to-day operations of the NPC without having to worry at all about the IFBB. Naturally, because of his current position within the IFBB, it would be improper to ask him that question, but it certainly seems logical to me.
That being said, I think having an NPC show at the Arnold is GREAT for the NPC.
-
Their called mortgages. They need a way to pay them. Thank you all IFBB and NPC members and promoters
-
I do know that the AAU is not part of bodybuilding anymore, that changed in 1982 I believe.
The AAU were a part of bodybuilding until 1999. The last Mr America was in 1999.
Members of the IFBB got onto the board of the AAU in about 1978 or 1979. This upset many in the AAU. The IFBB people promoted many of the shows for a few years. Then the board was wrestled back from the IFBB members, that is they were kicked out, so they went and formed their own org, the NPC. The AAU continued to run their own contests for almost anther 20 years.
-
If the PDI gets up and running, they could use the NPC as an amateur organization, just like the IFBB does. If an NPC bodybuilder earns his pro card, there's nothing stopping them from choosing the PDI over the IFBB. This would make the PDI more credible than handing out "pro" cards to guys from unknown organizations.
-
This is one of the most humorous conspiracies I've heard in quite some time.
I will not profess to know the nature of the relationship between Jim Manion and Jim Lorimer, but I'd be willing to bet that it has been mutually beneficial for both men over the years.
I do not speak for Jim Manion, but I feel pretty certain that he'd be perfectly happy handling the day-to-day operations of the NPC without having to worry at all about the IFBB. Naturally, because of his current position within the IFBB, it would be improper to ask him that question, but it certainly seems logical to me.
That being said, I think having an NPC show at the Arnold is GREAT for the NPC.
It's good that you don't speak for them. It shows you have at least a bit of self esteem. Believe what you want, Jim Manion and Jim Lorimer were associates only because they had to be. It was business.
As for having an NPC show at the Arnold. Yes, ok, it's good for the NPC BUT NOT FOR THE ARNOLD! There are so many sporting events held at the Arnold. What would have been better is to have an "open" competition. Open to all federations in the true spirit of the sport. For the sake of the sport and not to sell pro cards to the IFBB. Oh and one more question for you mr humorous conspiracy. Why is it that there was a limit on the number of athletes who can attend as amateurs? The Arnold is a big enough venue to handle a boatload more than they are letting compete. I have $100 bucks that says Manion put that limit on it. Oh if the walls could talk!
-
If the PDI gets up and running, they could use the NPC as an amateur organization, just like the IFBB does. If an NPC bodybuilder earns his pro card, there's nothing stopping them from choosing the PDI over the IFBB. This would make the PDI more credible than handing out "pro" cards to guys from unknown organizations.
You're kidding right? While the PDI would probably welcome amateurs from ANY organization, the NPC will NEVER work with the PDI. Jimmy boy hates Wayne. ::)
-
I dont't know if Manion hates Wayne, but you can be sure that he will do his best to undermine anything Wayne does in order to maintain his position of power in the IFBB.
Mr. Manion has and is using his position to Bogart the current crop of competitors into fearfully staying with the IFBB no matter how little they make and how dismal their prospects for the future may be.
good luck boys
-
I dont't know if Manion hates Wayne, but you can be sure that he will do his best to undermine anything Wayne does in order to maintain his position of power in the IFBB.
I'll have to respectfully disagree with you.
Mr. Manion's position within the IFBB is a lot less meaningful than his position within the NPC. If the IFBB disappeared tomorrow, he'd still be in a great position, and deservedly so. There's a reason why he's one of the most respected men in the industry - just look at his track record and look at how much the NPC has grown under his leadership.
-
Although I haven't heard it stated as such, I think the addition of an NPC show during the Arnold Fitness Weekend is a sign of great things to come.
What if the NPC Arnold grew into a pro qualifier and then - as was mentioned earlier in this thread - the Friday winners were able to compete as new pros on Saturday?
I *love* the potential this plan has.
Previous IFBB British GP shows have included an amateur show in the morning/early afternoon with the winner earning a pro card and competing later that day in the pro show.
It's a great idea that allows the promoter to offer more to the fans and hopefuly sell more tickets.
-
You're kidding right? While the PDI would probably welcome amateurs from ANY organization, the NPC will NEVER work with the PDI. Jimmy boy hates Wayne. ::)
I'm not saying that Manion would work with Demilia, just that there is nothing preventing an NPC athlete who earns his pro card from joining the PDI rather than the IFBB.
-
...there is nothing preventing an NPC athlete who earns his pro card from joining the PDI rather than the IFBB.
True.
Likewise, there would be nothing preventing an NPC athlete who earned his pro card from joining the NPC Pro Division rather than the IFBB Pro League.
-
Previous IFBB British GP shows have included an amateur show in the morning/early afternoon with the winner earning a pro card and competing later that day in the pro show.
It's a great idea that allows the promoter to offer more to the fans and hopefuly sell more tickets.
Excellent - it's always a plus when there's a (positive) precedent for something. Having that type of an event format provides added value for everyone - the competitors, the promoters, and the fans.
-
I'll have to respectfully disagree with you.
Mr. Manion's position within the IFBB is a lot less meaningful than his position within the NPC. If the IFBB disappeared tomorrow, he'd still be in a great position, and deservedly so. There's a reason why he's one of the most respected men in the industry - just look at his track record and look at how much the NPC has grown under his leadership.
To coin a phrase, "oh please negro"! Since when did you start wearing knee pads? He's one of the most respected men in the industry? WRONG! He's the one most feared by the athletes. His track record? What track record? Did he win the 200 meter or something? The NPC does nothing for their athletes just as the IFBB does nothing. They collect sanctioning fees from promoters and membership fees from athletes. They have some of the worst judging in amateur bodybuilding, and one of the biggest "good ol boys" clubs anywhere. Croneyism and nepetism at it's best. And you of all people should have issues with their press policy. When was the last time you had a press pass or was treated with any kind of dignity from them? Please Tre, take off your knee pads. It's very unbecoming of you. Now go out there and do some schmoetography!
-
I like DonDan, he knows what he's speaking about
-
To coin a phrase, "oh please negro"! Since when did you start wearing knee pads? He's one of the most respected men in the industry? WRONG! He's the one most feared by the athletes. His track record? What track record? Did he win the 200 meter or something? The NPC does nothing for their athletes just as the IFBB does nothing. They collect sanctioning fees from promoters and membership fees from athletes. They have some of the worst judging in amateur bodybuilding, and one of the biggest "good ol boys" clubs anywhere. Croneyism and nepetism at it's best. And you of all people should have issues with their press policy. When was the last time you had a press pass or was treated with any kind of dignity from them? Please Tre, take off your knee pads. It's very unbecoming of you. Now go out there and do some schmoetography!
Try as I might I find nothing to argue with here. ;D
-
His track record? What track record?
Compare how much the NPC struggled in its early days back in the 80s to how well it is thriving today. The growth hasn't always been as rapid as it is right now, but the reality is that the organization IS growing.
The NPC does nothing for their athletes just as the IFBB does nothing. They collect sanctioning fees from promoters and membership fees from athletes.
Those fees are pretty reasonable, though, aren't they? That's one reason why I'm in favor of the NPC having its own professional division separate and apart from the IFBB.
And you of all people should have issues with their press policy. When was the last time you had a press pass or was treated with any kind of dignity from them?
You're kidding, right? I'm treated well (or at least fairly!) pretty much wherever I go. I'm able to do my thing, a few people benefit, and no one is hurt by it.
The press issue was settled some 4 years ago and I've considered that chapter closed since that time. Even though I obviously disagreed with the need for such a policy, what it forced me to do was to get into the game on the business side.
Some might consider it misfortune, but it was one of the greatest things to happen to me in the past decade as my gross receipts now are greater than they ever would've been had I continued business as usual from that time onward.
That being said, your 'kneepad' comment is so far off-base, it's not even funny. I've been appropriately critical of the NPC whenever I've seen inconsistency with judging or a policy that was unfair or unreasonable. Few people have given the NPC judges more grief than I have in the past 5 years, but the NPC judging - without question - is FAR superior to what we see in the IFBB. But at the same time, I've always given credit where it was due. The reason you don't often see me griping about the NPC judging is that they usually do a darn good job.
There will always be folks who don't like the NPC and that's fine. But at the end of the day, the federation has provided employment and income opportunities for thousands of people throughout the years, and I don't see that as a bad thing at all.
-
Those fees are pretty reasonable, though, aren't they?
$75 (or is it more now?) per year just to belong? $60 to enter a contest? another $60 to cross over ?
-
$75 (or is it more now?) per year just to belong? $60 to enter a contest? another $60 to cross over ?
$75/year for membership is fine.
The entry fees are set by promoters, not the federation. The shows which have high fees for crossover competitors are obviously trying to discourage that practice.
-
I know I'm repeating myself, but...
it ain't a federation. local chapters have no autonomy. members don't vote for their local representation.
-
I know I'm repeating myself, but...
it ain't a federation. local chapters have no autonomy. members don't vote for their local representation.
True, they don't, but they could if they wanted to.
There was a big debate about this last summer, but it all came back to one truism - the members do not to elect their own representatives, but there is no official rule or policy which prevents them from doing so.
-
True, they don't, but they could if they wanted to.
There was a big debate about this last summer, but it all came back to one truism - the members do not to elect their own representatives, but there is no official rule or policy which prevents them from doing so.
Bullshit.
-
Bullshit.
What's stopping the members from electing their own representatives? Although I cannot recall the specific names of who was asked this question, the district chairmen who were interviewed all said the same thing - that the members can hold elections if they want to. The names/responses are available online and of course, the same question could be asked again.
-
the NPC judging - without question - is FAR superior to what we see in the IFBB. But at the same time, I've always given credit where it was due. The reason you don't often see me griping about the NPC judging is that they usually do a darn good job.
It's the exact same judges! The NPC and the IFBB are the same club with the same judges and the same percentage of "bad" judging decisions. (That's the biggest problem that needs to be corrected!) That's why thinking there's a need for a separate "NPC Pro Division" is only believed by the few people who still think the "Weiders" control everything. Wake up, it's not 1996 anymore. Wayne controlled the IFBB Pro Division before. Manion is in control of everything now. He hated Wayne and now opening mocks him and his "Loser League" the PDI. And he loves being in control. There's zero chance of him giving up control of the IFBB or going to the trouble of forming another organization to do the same thing.
(By the way, Wayne always got HALF of the IFBB sanction fees he now pretends to be against. And in the Orlando Pro meeting 2 years ago when he launched PDI, Wayne was asked if he would be lowering the fees in his new "Pro League," and with his typical smugness he said "No"--meaning he would just keep ALL of the fees from then on, which was all he wanted anyway. Same old Wayne. I'm certain Manion has a sweet deal too.)
-
It's the exact same judges! The NPC and the IFBB are the same club with the same judges and the same percentage of "bad" judging decisions. (That's the biggest problem that needs to be corrected!)
A lot of the same personnel, yes, but definitely not the same percentage of bad judging decisions...when they don their NPC caps, they perform a lot better.