Pope's speech stirs Muslim anger (what doesn't?)
Muslim religious leaders have accused Pope Benedict XVI of quoting anti-Islamic remarks during a speech at a German university this week.
Questioning the concept of holy war, he quoted a 14th-Century Christian emperor who said Muhammad had brought the world only "evil and inhuman" things.
A senior Pakistani Islamic scholar, Javed Ahmed Gamdi, said jihad was not about spreading Islam with the sword.
Turkey's top religious official asked for an apology for the "hostile" words.
In Indian-administered Kashmir, police seized copies of newspapers which reported the Pope's comments to prevent any tension.
A Vatican spokesman, Father Frederico Lombardi, said he did not believe the Pope's comments were meant as a harsh criticism of Islam.
'Abhorrent'
In his speech at Regensburg University, the German-born pontiff explored the historical and philosophical differences between Islam and Christianity and the relationship between violence and faith.
Stressing that they were not his own words, he quoted Emperor Manual II Paleologos of the Byzantine Empire, the Orthodox Christian empire which had its capital in what is now the Turkish city of Istanbul.
The emperors words were, he said: "Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."
Benedict said "I quote" twice to stress the words were not his and added that violence was "incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul".
The Pope is due to visit Turkey in November and the Turkish response was swift and strong, the BBC's Sarah Rainsford reports from Istanbul.
Religious leader Ali Bardakoglu said the Pope's comments represented what he called an "abhorrent, hostile and prejudiced point of view".
Whilst Muslims might express their criticism of Islam and of Christianity, he argued, they would never defame the Holy Bible or Jesus Christ.
He said he hoped the Pope's speech did not reflect "hatred in his heart" against Islam.
Many Turks see Benedict as a Turkophobe and commentators call his words just before the holy month of Ramadan "ill-timed and ill-conceived", our correspondent adds.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5346480.stm
WAS HE WRONG?????????????????????????????
Pope's speech stirs Muslim anger (what doesn't?)
Muslim religious leaders have accused Pope Benedict XVI of quoting anti-Islamic remarks during a speech at a German university this week.
Questioning the concept of holy war, he quoted a 14th-Century Christian emperor who said Muhammad had brought the world only "evil and inhuman" things.
A senior Pakistani Islamic scholar, Javed Ahmed Gamdi, said jihad was not about spreading Islam with the sword.
Turkey's top religious official asked for an apology for the "hostile" words.
In Indian-administered Kashmir, police seized copies of newspapers which reported the Pope's comments to prevent any tension.
A Vatican spokesman, Father Frederico Lombardi, said he did not believe the Pope's comments were meant as a harsh criticism of Islam.
'Abhorrent'
In his speech at Regensburg University, the German-born pontiff explored the historical and philosophical differences between Islam and Christianity and the relationship between violence and faith.
Stressing that they were not his own words, he quoted Emperor Manual II Paleologos of the Byzantine Empire, the Orthodox Christian empire which had its capital in what is now the Turkish city of Istanbul.
The emperors words were, he said: "Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."
Benedict said "I quote" twice to stress the words were not his and added that violence was "incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul".
The Pope is due to visit Turkey in November and the Turkish response was swift and strong, the BBC's Sarah Rainsford reports from Istanbul.
Religious leader Ali Bardakoglu said the Pope's comments represented what he called an "abhorrent, hostile and prejudiced point of view".
Whilst Muslims might express their criticism of Islam and of Christianity, he argued, they would never defame the Holy Bible or Jesus Christ.
He said he hoped the Pope's speech did not reflect "hatred in his heart" against Islam.
Many Turks see Benedict as a Turkophobe and commentators call his words just before the holy month of Ramadan "ill-timed and ill-conceived", our correspondent adds.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5346480.stm
But looking into it deeper: What he said is more politcally charged and motivated than the simple good vs evil crap.
Apparently not, they're rioting and burning effigies in India for christ sake
Let's not forget Christianity's assult on Islam in the past.
The Catholic church killed thousands of their own people during the middleages in a fashion that Islamic radicals could only dream of.
I thought India was Hindu?
Also by opening his nazi mouth he's really putting forth a declaration of war, and this will involve not only durka durka radicals but also moderates.
india are paki are 3rd world...
when ya grow up in paki ya plan your route according to who is rioting where :-\
Let's not forget Christianity's assult on Islam in the past.
The Catholic church killed thousands of their own people during the middleages in a fashion that Islamic radicals could only dream of.
Also by opening his nazi mouth he's really putting forth a declaration of war, and this will involve not only durka durka radicals but also moderates.
I agree. I remember talking to my muslim friends about that cartoon which insulted a lot of muslims and he said that that could have sparked world war 3. The fact that I agree isn't solely justified in that one conversation, but I really believe that when it comes to the muslim vs. christian issue, something big will eventually happen.
Muslims are good people but they VERY strictly go by "an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth." Respect is a huge part of their culture. My muslim friends also tell me they would die for their respect. Sounds crazy to me but... :-\
Time to warm up the slaughter houses for the moslems.
We can feed their corpses to the africans.
2 birds, one stone.
Remember, if the western world desired so, it could wipe out the Islamic world without barely winking an eye.
we tolerate their idiocy remember that. Once the tipping point occurs its over, you ae done.
The arabs are most childish people on the planet. Only the most insane person would riot over a cartoon.
So you don't mind killing 1/6 of the world's population?
Ha ha ha, Jesus christ you have to love the hypocrisy of one monotheistic relgious leader declaring the evils of another!
::)
He didn't "DECLARE" anything, he "QUOTED".
Why should some muslim in let's say Bangladesh have to answer for what some Arab does?
He didn't "DECLARE" anything, he "QUOTED".
mohammad didnt bring evil into the world. Satan is the source of evil. Satan was thrown out of heaven in a prehistoric battle with Jehovah. Satan has decieved many people in this world, including muslims and yes even catholics (the crusades). The only way to overcome this world, satan, and death, is through faith in Jesus Christ.
I agree. I remember talking to my muslim friends about that cartoon which insulted a lot of muslims and he said that that could have sparked world war 3. The fact that I agree isn't solely justified in that one conversation, but I really believe that when it comes to the muslim vs. christian issue, something big will eventually happen.
Muslims are good people but they VERY strictly go by "an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth." Respect is a huge part of their culture. My muslim friends also tell me they would die for their respect. Sounds crazy to me but... :-\
So? He is making this point in the full knowledge that he is the spokesman for his religion throughout the world. He does not disagree with his "quoted" points and knows full well that his comments are inflamatory.
Just another relogious despot getting off on his holier than thou attitude.
Again, you boob, you ignore Iran's leader calling for the destruction of Israel and USA and are upset over this???? You must either be in college or a moooslime yourself.
When was the last time Christians in the name of God blew up a school (Beslan), rioted over cartoons, killed over a movie (Theo Van Gogh), behead journalists (Daniel Pearl), did I mention 9/11, Madrid, or London????
Face it, Islam is a cult of death with some peaceful followers, not a religion of peace with a few radicals. The silent ones are either cowards or complicit in all of this.
So? He is making this point in the full knowledge that he is the spokesman for his religion throughout the world. He does not disagree with his "quoted" points and knows full well that his comments are inflamatory.
Just another relogious despot getting off on his holier than thou attitude.
Just because I am against mainstream catholicism you presume Im muslim!
Still waiting for muslim indignation over 9/11..
Pope's apology for 'slur' fails to quell rising Muslim fury
CHRISTIAN churches in the Middle East were attacked yesterday as an apology from Pope Benedict XVI failed to quell fury over his controversial comments on Islam.
Five churches were targeted in the Palestine territories and last night, in a chilling development, a violent Iraqi insurgent group vowed to suicide bomb the Vatican in the wake of the Pontiff's speech.
The Pope quoted a medieval ruler who said Muhammad had brought only "evil and inhuman" things to the world, sparking growing anger across the Muslim world.
The chilling statement from the Mujahadeen Army, posted on the website used by militant groups, was addressed to "you dog of Rome" and threatened to "shake your thrones and break your crosses in your home".
"We swear to God to send you people who adore death as much as you adore life," said the message, which contained links to video recordings of what the group claimed were rocket attacks on US bases.
The same group has claimed responsibility for scores of attacks in Iraq, including the April 2005 downing of a helicopter carrying 11 civilians, including six Americans.
The Muslim world will today expect a personal apology when the Pope makes his first public appearance since the controversial speech last Tuesday at the Angelus blessing in St Peter's Square, Rome.
The Pontiff spent yesterday in his country retreat outside Rome with his closest advisers as security was stepped up at the Vatican in readiness for today's appearance in which he usually discusses current affairs.
The Vatican was forced to issue a statement yesterday in a bid to defuse the affair. The move was a clear sign of the growing fears within the church that the crisis was spiralling out of control.
"The Holy Father is very sorry that some passages of his speech may have sounded offensive to the sensibilities of Muslim believers," Vatican Secretary of State Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone said in the statement.
But while the apology from the Vatican was welcomed by most of Britain's mainstream Muslim groups, those in the Middle East were less forgiving. More protests were held in Karachi, in Gaza and in Turkey.
Lebanon's most senior Shi'ite cleric, Grand Ayatollah Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah, said: "We do not accept the apology through Vatican channels and ask him to offer a personal apology - not through his officials - to Muslims for this false reading [of Islam]".
Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood said the statement did not go far enough and called on the Pontiff to apologise in person.
"We feel he has committed a grave error against us and that this mistake will only be removed through a personal apology," the Brotherhood's deputy leader Mohammed Habib said.
Iran also condemned Pope Benedict XVI, calling his comments "a big mistake" and demanding an apology.
But the most worrying turn of events took place in the Palestinian territories where gangs wielding guns and firebombs turned their anger on churches. Four churches were targeted in the West Bank town of Nablus, while gunmen opened fire at a fifth in Gaza, leaving the walls pocked by bulletholes and scorched by firebombs.
Only one was a Catholic church. In one of the attacks, five firebombs struck an Anglican church, setting fire to the door. In the attack on the Catholic church, four gunmen doused the doors with lighter fluid before setting it alight. A group calling itself the Lions of Monotheism claimed responsibility.
In Iraq, the government asked Muslims not to take their anger out on the small Christian minority, after the door of a church in Basra was attacked.
Benedict's worst crisis since he was elected in April 2005 was sparked by a speech at the University of Regensburg in his native Germany last Tuesday that appeared to endorse a Christian view, contested by most Muslims, that early Muslims spread their religion by violence. The Pope's speech quoted from a book recounting a conversation between 14th-century Byzantine Christian Emperor Manuel Paleologos II and an educated Persian on the truths of Christianity and Islam.
"The emperor comes to speak about the issue of jihad, holy war," the Pope said. "He said, I quote, 'Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached'."
The Pope described the phrases on Islam as "brusque", while neither explicitly agreeing with nor repudiating them. In his statement yesterday, Cardinal Bertone said the 79-year-old Pope had confirmed in the speech "his respect and esteem for those who profess the Islamic faith" and hoped his words would be understood "in their true sense".
The academic speech was meant as a "a clear and radical rejection of religiously motivated violence, wherever it comes from," he added.
Church insiders said the Pope, a theologian who has led a sheltered life in the Vatican for more than two decades, may not have understood the potential implications of his remarks. The backlash has cast doubt on a planned visit to Turkey by the Pope in November.
However, despite the continuing fury across the Middle East, Britain's mainstream Muslim groups said they accepted the Vatican's apology.
Dr Mohammed Abdul Bari, general secretary of the Muslim Council of Britain, said: "It's certainly a welcome step that the Pope recognises the hurt his speech caused. He quoted the words of the emperor who made very derogatory remarks about the Prophet."
Representatives of Scottish Muslims said the "damage had been done" but they also welcomed his apology. Former Glasgow councillor Bashir Mann, a member of the Muslim Council of Great Britain, said: "Relations are already strained. It is important for the Pope to realise what can happen after such a slip."
Thats hilarious but probably true.
Still waiting for muslim indignation over 9/11..
its true ..i grew up there..i remember going out into the streets to play cricket cause there would be a cerfew everywhere and the military guys would stand and watch us play..and it ws fun cause NO cars were allowed on the road and mum would actualy feel safe that no one ws gonna kidnap us..
its stupid 3rd world mentality...but many times some sect political or religious would make some statement and next thing..riots all over the fucking city..cant go to the grocery stores or cant buy gas or cant go check up on your buziness..i remember once some american movie ws playing in one of our theaters and the islamists extremists (mostly afghani) poured into the theater (helf 500) and ripsed up most of the seats with knifes.....
its a product of the 3rd world.. :-\
Sounds like a great place to raise a family!
meh...my driver always carried a gun..or i'd have guard in the car...for the most part...besides..i'm in the US now...
Don't you miss the excitement? ???
there ws plenty of indignation....2 bad you weren't watching BBC..what u r waiting for is an apology...aint gonna get it...Ya the uproar was deafening. ::) Nothing like we see now when they're bitching. Pathetic in general.
Let's not forget Christianity's assult on Islam in the past.
The Catholic church killed thousands of their own people during the middleages in a fashion that Islamic radicals could only dream of.
Also by opening his nazi mouth he's really putting forth a declaration of war, and this will involve not only durka durka radicals but also moderates.
These didn't make your list I bet:
911, Madrid, Tube bombings, Bali bombs, Taliban, Womens rights, muhammad cartoons, freedom of speech, slavery ...
there ws plenty of indignation....2 bad you weren't watching BBC..what u r waiting for is an apology...aint gonna get it... :-\
Would you say you're against Catholicism more so than you are to islamism (satanism)?
I'd like to know your pros/con list has to why...
These didn't make your list I bet:
911, Madrid, Tube bombings, Bali bombs, Taliban, Womens rights, muhammad cartoons, freedom of speech, slavery ...
Re-read my post. Im against ALL orgainsed monotheistic religions. Im not so interested in acts of terrorism carried out in the name of religion but more the controlling way religion limits the outlook of men, dominates women and controls the mentally inept.
Which religion is mostly closely related to what you describe in this day and age?
Any answer other than islam is INCORRECT.
DO YOU AGREE TO THIS?
I told her that when the shiite hits the fan where would she feel more safe, in a mosque or in a church?
Which religion is mostly closely related to what you describe in this day and age?
Any answer other than islam is INCORRECT.
DO YOU AGREE TO THIS?
If so then they (organised religions) are all about the same.
Yeah they're all about the same... ::)
Either wake up or fuckoff! >:(
You apologistic stance towards islam, and the inability to see (http://jihadwatch.org/) the reality of this satanic cult is disgusting.
Who was the last Christian to shoot someone as holy as a nun IN THE FUCKING BACK? ???
Wow, someone has an anger control problem!
What I actually said was " Are you asking what religion is most controlling to the minds of the faithful?
If so then they (organised religions) are all about the same." But top marks for editing out the first part. If you actually READ what I wrote I am comparing all major religions' way of controlling the minds of people, installing fear or retribution to the unfaithful. Im not attempting to making a list of what is the worst religion!
Where have I defended the Muslim faith? (as you are accusing me of being an apologist)
Your knee-jerk reactions and instant hatred towards someone with a differing view to yourself reminds me of the Muslims who want to put a Jihad on the pope for his remarks!!!
Mabye you arent so different to Muslims after all! :P
No I wont because all major religions are supressive in their very nature!
Part of every major religion controls the way people think, their outlook on the world and their fellow man (to me, religion is the worst form of elitism in the history of man)
They all seem to supress free thinking and freedom using some sort of punsihment for the unbeliever whilst ensuring a prize for the believer.
If you were to ask me which religion at the momment is carrying out the most acts of terrorism then yes I would say Muslims. (although, I have said this before on another forum and was told that Bush said he was told by god to go to war, which Im sure Muslims quote over oand over) but you seem too busy telling me to f**k off or calling me an apologist :-\
So what exactly would satisfy you? Would you be happy if I said I hate the opinions and beliefs of all Muslims throughout the world?
Just curious.
Acknowledging that the islamic pagan cult is the most supressive "religious" practice on Earth today.
All things considered...
Yes they probably are.
I still detest ALL religions and what they do to the minds of men (and women) throughout history.
Wow, you still cannot bring yourself to say it definitively can you? :-\
You're by far the most apologetic liberal I have yet to meet on Getbig... congrats!
Agreed.
He he I have never been called a liberal in my life , most forums I have been on I have been called Hitler or a Nazi!!
OK get ready for this....
Right now the Muslim faith is supressing people more than the other major players.
Christ, are you happy now?
You must be religious because you cannot see that there are people out there that may disagree with your opininons. THIS DOES NOT ALWAYS MEAN THEY ARE INSTANTLY WRONG.
I'm ultra un-religious... ::) Keep on calling me everything I detest... like that's never been done before ::)
Now you're just telling me what you know I want to hear just to shut me up ::) None of this came out of your mouth through conviction therefore you don't really believe what you've just said... :-\
Keep on appeasing brother, but on the day the straw that broke the camels back is placed... remember your ways :-X :-\
Nordic, are you English?
Just asking
No Im English
If you can hold the abuse for 2 minutes whats your opinion on immigration in the UK?
No Im English
If you can hold the abuse for 2 minutes whats your opinion on immigration in the UK?
No I think he'll probably still call me Arabic even though Im a arabic English man born and bred in Kashmir!
No I think he'll probably still call me Arabic even though Im a white English man born and bred in Kent!
By the OzmO I remember American football coming to the Uk in the eighties (referring to your 49ers symbol) on channel 4. My whole (Arabic!) family loved it my sister choose the 49ers and I choose the Bengals and then watched them loose year after year!! I havnt watched it for ages, who are the dominant teams now?
If we actually had a filtration system in place similar to that of Australia, US etc we would only accept those benefitting the economy.
Grow up... :P
Let's see,
Steelers, Patriots, Colts, Bengals, Broncos, Seahawks, Eagles, Panthers, ................... But this season it's too early to tell.
You have only your government to blame for letting in illiterate Pakistanis that pretty much want to blow up the island of England.
What is this island of England you speak of? England isn't an island.
One thing I hate more than illiterate pakis are ignorant pakis.
Whatever, must be eating you alive to have your country being overrun. ;D Just make sure you don't bring your sorry ass to the states, and if you do, then I'll kick your ass.
What is this island of England you speak of? England isn't an island.
One thing I hate more than illiterate pakis are ignorant pakis.
I stay in CA during the spring months. Even considering getting an house in LV
Whatever, must be eating you alive to have your country being overrun. ;D Just make sure you don't bring your sorry ass to the states, and if you do, then I'll kick your ass.
Im presuming your American CJ?
If so dont you think that immigration is essentially a side affect of all capitalist countries whose backbone is based around a free market economy?
What I mean is the modern Western world is in effect a victim of it's own success whereby every company in order to survive has to minimise expenditure whilst maximising profits. An essential part of this is by minimising labour expenditure and it is most common for immigrants to be able to fulfill this role.
I looked at the BBC website the other day and In the UK there is alot of talk about former Eastern Block countries joining the EU, when they do this it is easier to come here and work. THe problem is that the average wage in the majority of these countries is around 3000 Euros per year (around £2000) whereas the average wage for an indigeounous Brit is around £19000. Therefore it does not take a genious to realise what will happen in the not too distant future for countries like the UK. I was lead to believe that it was similar in the US with immigration from countries like Mexico?
I am the son of an immigrant.
Mexicans and other immigrants are a huge part of the US and all capatalist countries, the one's that come over legally anyway. But illegal immigration is bad and arguements for it are bogus because when immigrants are brought over at that fast a pace integration becomes very slow, or almost non-existant.