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Getbig Main Boards => General Topics => Topic started by: JOHN MATRIX on September 17, 2006, 12:23:46 AM
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just to put things in perspective....
in the years we've been in iraq we've lost around 3000 men total...
in the israeli/lebanon thing it was a bit over 1000 in 20-something days...
and people were making it sound like the end of the world/start of WW3...
now a life is a life and any loss is regrettable and their sacrifice was just as worthy as any other, but here are some stats that will blow your fucking mind from the Germany-Soviet war ALONE...this particular conflict was the worst ever in history by a huge margin; usually overshadowed by the western front, which paled in comparison. in only FOUR years from 1941-45:
over 20 MILLION soviets, a large percentage innocent civilians, were KILLED.
an average of almost 600 per Minute
around 14,000 per DAY
this is roughly the equivalent of over four 9/11's PER DAY for FOUR YEARS.
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My dad was in WWII. He was in the ski patrol in the Army in the Aleutian Islands
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over 20 MILLION soviets, a large percentage innocent civilians, were KILLED.
an average of almost 600 per Minute
The soviets are the forgotten victims in regards to the general public... :-[
600 per minute is just an embarassing state of affairs for the human race... how the fuck could we have done this? :'(
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The soviets are the forgotten victims in regards to the general public... :-[
600 per minute is just an embarassing state of affairs for the human race... how the f**k could we have done this? :'(
I'm shocked you say this... good post ;D
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I doubt most Americans ever knew that they were part of the "easy", civilized Western front during the war. Same thing in the Pacific.
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"Romell, you magnificent son of a bitch, i read your book!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
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My dad was in WWII. He was in the ski patrol in the Army in the Aleutian Islands
The Japanese at one point actually invaded Alaska. They retreated before we got a chance to engage them in combat.
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"Romell, you magnificent son of a bitch, i read your book!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
I watched Patton the other day great movie...
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I doubt most Americans ever knew that they were part of the "easy", civilized Western front during the war. Same thing in the Pacific.
Another lame jab at America. Must be getting desperate. Tiger didn't cooperate and niether did the CFL.
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Pumpster...are u saying that the War in the pacific was like th western front...ever read "Good Bye darkness" by William Manchester or "With the old Breed" By EB sledge. The combat was every bit as tough and as brutal as combat on the eastern front. U can easily compare anything the Marines/Army faced on Guadalcanal/Iwo/Oki/Bruma etc etc with what Russian and German forces faced in the east. Not to mention/Brit-Anzac forces in New Guinea. Yes the western front was side show compared to the east.
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Now those are some crazy numbers!
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I doubt most Americans ever knew that they were part of the "easy", civilized Western front during the war. Same thing in the Pacific.
The pacific theatre of war was hell. The most intense, bloody battles of the war were fought in the Pacific. Lack of freshwater, blazing heat, malaria, dysentary, kamakazi attacks, drowning, getting eaten by sharks. I could go on.
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The pacific theatre of war was hell. The most intense, bloody battles of the war were fought in the Pacific. Lack of freshwater, blazing heat, malaria, dysentary, kamakazi attacks, drowning, getting eaten by sharks. I could go on.
have you heard the infamous story about the japanese unit that was on the isalnd of Ramree? the brits launched a nighttime attack on the japs there and trapped a force of about 1000 japs. the japs were pinned between british fire and the only way out was through a big swamp or marshland that night, so they tried escaping through the swamp. they were attacked by saltwater crocodiles. the brits say they could rear the screams of the japs as dozens of crocs picked them off everywhere. at the end of the ordeal only a timy fraction made it through the swamp alive-i forgot the exact number but it was tiny. literally hundreds of japs, many already wounded by bullets, were finished off by saltwater crocodiles that night.
then of course theres the USS Indianapolis.
but still in sheer numbers, the pacific theater was still not even close to the eastern front.
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No never numbers wise but as that story just shows....u were fighting in miserable conditions just like the eastern front. The east was a race war..no quarter given on either side.
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Eastern front involved many more millions of civilian deaths; some in Leningrad ate grass when there was no food. Plus in 1942-43 the winter was brutally cold, a much bigger factor than in the Pacific.
The only equivalent in terms of civilian misery in the Pacific might've been Manchuria and other places like that prior to the beginning of WW II.
That said, the Japanese were horrible to their prisoners.
Leningrad diary:
How agonizing the desire to eat was in the winter of 1941-1942. . . . In the city's empty streets there sometimes appeared trucks carrying the military. I would usually pull some tobacco out of my quilted jacket--if the truck stopped, I would offer it to the men in military overcoats: "Comrades! Have you got any twigs? Here is some tobacco for you!" They once tossed me a heap of aromatic pine branches. I gnawed on them all the way home. I totally devoured their tender bark and needles.
Yes, in the spring of 1942, grass was as much our salvation as were glue and leather straps. Those had to be prepared and then cooked, which required time and. . . fuel. But grass, it was growing everywhere--in the streets, in empty lots. It even poked through cracks in the asphalt.
As soon as the sun warmed up our devastated and starving Leningrad, green sprouts immediately started forcing their way through all the cracks. There were no more dogs in the city--all of them had been eaten. Children, looking more like old men, were not running around trampling down the grass, and besides, there were so few of them left in the city. The grass kept growing.
It was easy to cut heaps of new spring chamomile--its fluffy and aromatic little leaves went so well with the tender feather grass, which usually grows in the shade, close to houses. In the past it was used as food for birds. I made a delicious salad out of it to supplement the morning portion of our bread ration, which we received at 5:30 in the morning in a former bakery lit by two dim kerosene lamps. A portion of this grass and the remnants of the bread ration would be left for an evening meal.
And then there were the sticky little linden leaves of spring! You could eat them, or you could make soup out of them. And the sour leaves of barberries! And shepherd's purse! It says in science books that the latter helps to fight vitamin deficiency and scurvy. But there was not time for studying science books, whereas the feeling of hunger was always present. And my basket was filling up with all kinds of grasses.
How grateful I am to it, my dear, green, fresh, dewy grass! In the years since then, much has gradually disappeared from memory, but the memory of those bright spring mornings will never fade.
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Pumpster...are u saying that the War in the pacific was like th western front...ever read "Good Bye darkness" by William Manchester or "With the old Breed" By EB sledge. The combat was every bit as tough and as brutal as combat on the eastern front. U can easily compare anything the Marines/Army faced on Guadalcanal/Iwo/Oki/Bruma etc etc with what Russian and German forces faced in the east. Not to mention/Brit-Anzac forces in New Guinea. Yes the western front was side show compared to the east.
The fighting was indeed harsh because the Japanese would fight to the last and were well dug in, but they didn't have comparable equipment, supplies or training. Thus the actual ratio of American to Jap deaths was quite low.
On the Western front the well-rested Americans were fighting decimated German armies that had been at war for years, many of whom were in recovery mode from the eastern front or were units comprised of older veterans who'd been drafted. Plus the fact that the Germans had no significant air force on the western front or it would have been much harder, more of an even playing field.
Another lame jab at America. Must be getting desperate.
Only your misguided interpretation; you've really proved that you have no sense of the big picture beyond America, just like the media here want. It's just reality you're not aware of that the western front was much much easier, involving well-rested, well-supplied allied troops with overwhelming air power and greater numbers.
The tipping point in the war was at Stalingrad and Kursk, well before D-Day. Just as in the first world war, the Americans did all they could to avoid fighting until very late, so they weren't involved until the Germans were already exhausted. The American media and you know almost nothing about this. The Germans had to resort to siphoning gas out of abandoned vehicles to move their equipment, or would sometimes abandon equipment for lack of gas.
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That said, the Japanese were horrible to their prisoners.
And when they didn't want to house and/or feed prisoners, they massacred them. "Rape of Nanking" is a terrifying book about the Japanese invasion of China. I think it's one of the worst massacres in recorded history. Just brutal.
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And when they didn't want to house and/or feed prisoners, they massacred them. "Rape of Nanking" is a terrifying book about the Japanese invasion of China. I think it's one of the worst massacres in recorded history. Just brutal.
did you know the author of rape of nanking committed suicide?
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did you know the author of rape of nanking committed suicide?
Iris Chang? Didn't know that?
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did or didn't?
if you didn't, she was only 36
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did or didn't?
if you didn't, she was only 36
I didn't know. November 04. I was up to my eyeballs in work. Completely missed that story. I can't believe it. She was bipolar. Suffered from major depression. Big loss. Her book is one of the most powerful I've ever read. I still remember having to put it down several times because it was so graphic.
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At the time of her death, she was researching a book on American soldiers who served in tank units on the Bataan peninsula before World War II, many of whom were captured and imprisoned by the Japanese. In the course of her research several months ago, Ms. Chang became severely depressed and had to be hospitalized, Ms. Rabiner (her agent) said
i think she shot herself w a handgun . . . you've got to be pretty far gone to do that. Did your copy of Rape of Nanking have pictures? I can't remember if i saw pictures in the book or if it was in some other book.
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At the time of her death, she was researching a book on American soldiers who served in tank units on the Bataan peninsula before World War II, many of whom were captured and imprisoned by the Japanese. In the course of her research several months ago, Ms. Chang became severely depressed and had to be hospitalized, Ms. Rabiner (her agent) said
i think she shot herself w a handgun . . . you've got to be pretty far gone to do that. Did your copy of Rape of Nanking have pictures? I can't remember if i saw pictures in the book or if it was in some other book.
My book has pictures, including beheaded prisoners with their severed genitals in their mouths. And believe it or not those soldiers did much worse than that.
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you have to be prepared to accept tha worst of the worst and just understand that this shit happedned-andstill happens today. you have to accept and understand human nature and how things happen in the worst of circumstances. you cant let this shit bring you down. its not just WW2. there has always been undescribably horrible shit. you judt have to accept that thats how things go.
only a naive moron would kill themselves over this. if today all your peers were cast into the same situation they would act in the same exact ways.
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Pumpster is correct. 65% of German casualties were inflicted on them by the Soviets, not the Americans. The U.S made the actions of cowards in World War 2, first financing Great Britain and letting the Brits die alone, and then entering the war when the Red Army was only 800 miles from Berlin. The U.S was not even a maor protagonist in the war: essentially, World War II was the conflict between two totalitarian states, one racicist and the other one classist.
Only a fool, who never fought against the Germans when they are on their game, would believe that Americans would have defeated the Wehrmacht like it was in the year of 1941 fighting on European soil. There is no way that it would be possible to make an amphibious invasion of European soil if Germany focused 100% of it's resoure capacity on the Western Front, and if the German industry were producing it's superb weaponry to full capacity, which was more technologically advanced than anything the Aliies head. I'm talking about super-sonic fighter planes, ICBMs and surface detectant radars; all far more advanced than what their opponents have. The Wehrmacht was the most perfectly developed, organized and specialized army in the history of the World; the culmination of the World's most scientifially military of nations. The end. :o
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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{shhhh} You're robbing them of their fantasies.
All that BS propaganda over the years that they're the saviours of the world, and you come along telling the truth? How dare you?! :D
USA USA USA
There that oughtta get them back in their dream state of delusions of grandeur. ;D
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if Germany hadn't attacked Russia and had most of their troops on the eastern front they would have destroyed the US's army.
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I'm talking about super-sonic fighter planes, ICBMs and surface detectant radars; all far more advanced than what their opponents have. SUCKMYMUSCLE
You don't have a clue. No plane could fly at supersonic speeds until the late 50's and it was the American fixed wing X15. The ME-262 flew at subsonic speeds. ICBM's? You really are nuts now. The German V2 had a range of a couple hundred miles. The German radar technology was FAR behind the American and British at the time. The Germans were at the vanguard of hi tech weaponry but it made zero impact in WWII. It was a case of much too little too late.
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The Germans had a great army. Well trained and well disciplined. The Luftwaffa was outclassed by the RAF and literally dwarfed by the US Air Corps. No contest. The Germans had great tanks with major flaws, too heavy and underpowered but the great 88 mm gun. They also didn't have nearly enough of them. They had great small arms. Especially machine guns. Besides the Graf Spee and the Bismark they had no navy to speak of. The U-boats were deathtraps after 1942 with effective American sonar and anti submarine tactics. The British and American air power would have eventually laid seige to Germany anyway you want to slice it. The Germans in no way shape or form could produce anywhere near the numbers of tanks, guns, artillery, subs, battleships, landing craft anything that America could. Its hard to say what would have happened had there been no eastern front. If the political will was there the Americans and British and Canadians could have eventually won a protracted war with Germany. Due to superior numbers of men and vastly greater manufacturing potential.
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Only your misguided interpretation; you've really proved that you have no sense of the big picture beyond America, just like the media here want. It's just reality you're not aware of that the western front was much much easier, involving well-rested, well-supplied allied troops with overwhelming air power and greater numbers.
The tipping point in the war was at Stalingrad and Kursk, well before D-Day. Just as in the first world war, the Americans did all they could to avoid fighting until very late, so they weren't involved until the Germans were already exhausted. The American media and you know almost nothing about this. The Germans had to resort to siphoning gas out of abandoned vehicles to move their equipment, or would sometimes abandon equipment for lack of gas.
As usual you have opened your mouth so wide your face has dissappeared.
I forgotten more about WW2 than you'll ever know.
Of course you assume i know nothing because that what you do most of the time: Make an Ass out of your self.
WW2 has been a interest point of mine for 32 years since i was 9 and visited corregidor and walked part of the death march.
Of course i know all that stuff, I know the state of the German Army when America Landed on D-day, how many of the defenders on the beaches were really polish, how our intellegence failed us at point du hoc, etc....
My comment was based on yet another lame atempt by you at bashing the USA or Americans. Keep trying.
Also, considering the amount of divisions invovled in war on the Eastern front, the civilian deaths etc. of course it's easy to say the Bulk of the war happened there but that doesn't anything take away from all the areas of the world that saw death and destruction.
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The Germans had a great army. Well trained and well disciplined. The Luftwaffa was outclassed by the RAF and literally dwarfed by the US Air Corps. No contest. The Germans had great tanks with major flaws, too heavy and underpowered but the great 88 mm gun. They also didn't have nearly enough of them. They had great small arms. Especially machine guns. Besides the Graf Spee and the Bismark they had no navy to speak of. The U-boats were deathtraps after 1942 with effective American sonar and anti submarine tactics. The British and American air power would have eventually laid seige to Germany anyway you want to slice it. The Germans in no way shape or form could produce anywhere near the numbers of tanks, guns, artillery, subs, battleships, landing craft anything that America could. Its hard to say what would have happened had there been no eastern front. If the political will was there the Americans and British and Canadians could have eventually won a protracted war with Germany. Due to superior numbers of men and vastly greater manufacturing potential.
The Germans wold have likely won, or at least be a postiion to sue for peace, if it weren't for several very bad mistakes by Hitler:
1. Dunkirk
2. 2 front war
3. Giving up on the Battle of Britian
4. The focus on expensive weapons vs. Mass producing cheap ones.
5. Indecision on focusing on Stalingrad, Lenigrad vs. Moscow.
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You don't have a clue. No plane could fly at supersonic speeds until the late 50's and it was the American fixed wing X15. The ME-262 flew at subsonic speeds. ICBM's? You really are nuts now. The German V2 had a range of a couple hundred miles. The German radar technology was FAR behind the American and British at the time. The Germans were at the vanguard of hi tech weaponry but it made zero impact in WWII. It was a case of much too little too late.
One thing they were well ahead of us at was Jet technology. they were at least 10 years ahead of us. No that it made much of a difference especially since Hitler policy on using the m-262 was in effective. And just think, if events happened differently, they might have had the time to create a nuclear bomb before we did.
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One thing they were well ahead of us at was Jet technology. they were at least 10 years ahead of us. No that it made much of a difference especially since Hitler policy on using the m-262 was in effective. And just think, if events happened differently, they might have had the time to create a nuclear bomb before we did.
Cool stuff Ozmo. I would say the allies executed their war plan better than the German Wermacht.
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The Germans wold have likely won, or at least be a postiion to sue for peace, if it weren't for several very bad mistakes by Hitler:
1. Dunkirk
2. 2 front war
3. Giving up on the Battle of Britian
4. The focus on expensive weapons vs. Mass producing cheap ones.
5. Indecision on focusing on Stalingrad, Lenigrad vs. Moscow.
Ozmo, ever read the book "The fatherland"?
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Cool stuff Ozmo. I would say the allies executed their war plan better than the German Wermacht.
Yeah, strategically we did, but on the battle field, at company level, the Germans were the best army hands down i believe. (until you shot the offiicers) :)
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Ozmo, ever read the book "The fatherland"?
I never have. Right now, I'm reading "Tanks in the Mud" and book about a German Panzer commander named Otto Carius who was decorated with the Iron cross.
Is it a good book? Can i get it at Borders or Barnes?
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I never have. Right now, I'm reading "Tanks in the Mud" and book about a German Panzer commander named Otto Carius who was decorated with the Iron cross.
Is it a good book? Can i get it at Borders or Barnes?
Its a pretty good book. The Germans defeated the Soviet Union. Germany and the Western allies made peace. America defeated Japan. The USA and Germany are the two super powers. The book is written by Robert Harris. He had another book that was good. "Selling Hitler" Both are readily available on eBay hardcover for pretty cheap.
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The Germans had a great army. Well trained and well disciplined. The Luftwaffa was outclassed by the RAF and literally dwarfed by the US Air Corps. No contest. The Germans had great tanks with major flaws, too heavy and underpowered but the great 88 mm gun. They also didn't have nearly enough of them. They had great small arms. Especially machine guns. Besides the Graf Spee and the Bismark they had no navy to speak of. The U-boats were deathtraps after 1942 with effective American sonar and anti submarine tactics. The British and American air power would have eventually laid seige to Germany anyway you want to slice it. The Germans in no way shape or form could produce anywhere near the numbers of tanks, guns, artillery, subs, battleships, landing craft anything that America could. Its hard to say what would have happened had there been no eastern front. If the political will was there the Americans and British and Canadians could have eventually won a protracted war with Germany. Due to superior numbers of men and vastly greater manufacturing potential.
this is the truth.
the wehrmacht was the best quality fighting force in the world but no matter how you slice it they only had so many resources. germany is half the size of texas. their enemies had many, many times their population. in the end they would have been ground down and defeated by american numbers the same way the soviets did, the same way the Union beat the Confederacy, a case of sheer numbers/resources over quality.
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this is the truth.
the wehrmacht was the best quality fighting force in the world but no matter how you slice it they only had so many resources. germany is half the size of texas. their enemies had many, many times their population. in the end they would have been ground down and defeated by american numbers the same way the soviets did, the same way the Union beat the Confederacy, a case of sheer numbers/resources over quality.
Absolutly true, the only way they could have won a "peace" was a delay in their ultimate defeat allowing them to get an A-bomb. Also if they hadn't invaded Russia and ahnilated the BEF at Dunkirk instead allowing Goring to just bomb them, they could have kept France and prolonged the war also.
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You don't have a clue. No plane could fly at supersonic speeds until the late 50's and it was the American fixed wing X15. The ME-262 flew at subsonic speeds. ICBM's? You really are nuts now. The German V2 had a range of a couple hundred miles. The German radar technology was FAR behind the American and British at the time. The Germans were at the vanguard of hi tech weaponry but it made zero impact in WWII. It was a case of much too little too late.
No. Completely wrong. The first super-sonic fighter plane in the World was the German Messerschmidt series. The U.S and Britain did not have planes in World War 2 capable of flying at speeds of MACH 1 and over. The V2 was the World's first ICBM, if we go by the literal definition of "Inter Continental Balistic Missile". The maximum theoretical range of the V2 was one thousand miles, or almost the distance beteen Berlin and Rome. The reason why they weren't used for targets located at long distances was because the fuel required was too great to compensate for the minimal damage caused by the weapon, and that, at such distances, the accuracy of the V2 was very low. Theoretically, the V2 could expand it's maximum range to three thousand miles, enough to bomb America. It was never done because Germany couldn't afford to spend that much fuel on single missile and it would hit the target anywhere from 50 to 80 miles off, so it would be a huge waist of resources. Lucky Americans! As for radars, the city of Dusseldorf was evacuated three hours before the bombing raid of the British Air Force; they new it was coming due to their fantastic radars. In fact, the German radars could detect targets flying at altitudes of as little as 300 ft. You're the typical Yanky asshole, who likes to believe that the U.S has always been a World leader in science and technology, when in reality it only became a World scientific power in the 1950s, when it "imported" German scientists. You know nothing of history, so go do your homework before you try to discredit the post of someone who actually has a B.A in History - among other three. ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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No. Completely wrong. The first super-sonic fighter plane in the World was the German Messerschmidt series. The U.S and Britain did not have planes in World War 2 capable of flying at speeds of MACH 1 and over. The V2 was the World's first ICBM, if we go by the literal definition of "Inter Continental Balistic Missile". The maximum theoretical range of the V2 was one thousand miles, or almost the distance beteen Berlin and Rome. The reason why they weren't used for targets located at long distances was because the fuel required was too great to compensate for the minimal damage caused by the weapon, and that, at such distances, the accuracy of the V2 was very low. Theoretically, the V2 could expand it's maximum range to three thousand miles, enough to bomb America. It was never done because Germany couldn't afford to spend that much fuel on single missile and it would hit the target anywhere from 50 to 80 miles off, so it would be a huge waist of resources. Lucky Americans! As for radars, the city of Dusseldorf was evacuated three hours before the bombing raid of the British Air Force; they new it was coming due to their fantastic radars. In fact, the German radars could detect targets flying at altitudes of as little as 300 ft. You're the typical Yanky asshole, who likes to believe that the U.S has always been a World leader in science and technology, when in reality it only became a World scientific power in the 1950s, when it "imported" German scientists. You know nothing of history, so go do your homework before you try to discredit the post of someone who actually has a B.A in History - among other three. ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Which fighter in the ME series employed in WW2 went super sonic? Because the 262 had a max speed of 500 or 520 mph. Isn't super sonic 800 or something?
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Its a wonder that evey argument turns against the US no matter what the topic. Yes US forces were unprepared to fight the Nazis in 1939. the fact that they didn't get involved is in no way sell out of th Brits. We did as much as we could. We did not have the political will nor the military to fight the war. Oh and how come everybody has an advanced history degree when we're talking history or an MBA when we're talking about economonics. Gimme a break. I could google cut and past and look smart on any topic thats threaded here. There are a million reasons why the nazi's lost. Poor sub unit level leadership..not enough natural resources..hell the French had better tanks at the start of ww2. The soviets produced the best tank at the end. The German economy didn't turn to a full war footing till 43. And despite all the supposed smart guy Generals..they lost major pitched battle after pitched battle on both fronts. The US Army is enamored of the Germans..always has been. Dig a little deeper and all u see is shiny cool toys and a string of losses..kinda like the Indianapolis Colts...when it mattered, they folded. This was a team victory...we helped enough to keep the Soviets and Brits going..the major land battles were won by the Russians...Brit intelligence cracked codes etc etc.
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Its a wonder that evey argument turns against the US no matter what the topic. Yes US forces were unprepared to fight the Nazis in 1939. the fact that they didn't get involved is in no way sell out of th Brits. We did as much as we could. We did not have the political will nor the military to fight the war. Oh and how come everybody has an advanced history degree when we're talking history or an MBA when we're talking about economonics. Gimme a break. I could google cut and past and look smart on any topic thats threaded here. There are a million reasons why the nazi's lost. Poor sub unit level leadership..not enough natural resources..hell the French had better tanks at the start of ww2. The soviets produced the best tank at the end. The German economy didn't turn to a full war footing till 43. And despite all the supposed smart guy Generals..they lost major pitched battle after pitched battle on both fronts. The US Army is enamored of the Germans..always has been. Dig a little deeper and all u see is shiny cool toys and a string of losses..kinda like the Indianapolis Colts...when it mattered, they folded. This was a team victory...we helped enough to keep the Soviets and Brits going..the major land battles were won by the Russians...Brit intelligence cracked codes etc etc.
They are just haters! ;D
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Surface historians..read a few books and bcome experts. ;D
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Surface historians..read a few books and bcome experts. ;D
Hi honey :-* glad to see ya. keep dodging those IED's :)
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Jag..how are u. Ramadan in 4 days..its like if all catholics decided to fast for lent then go blow up jewish temples..i can't wait. :P
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"Romell, you magnificent son of a bitch, i read your book!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
haha priceless! I think ive watched that movie at least 100 times
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No. Completely wrong. The first super-sonic fighter plane in the World was the German Messerschmidt series. The U.S and Britain did not have planes in World War 2 capable of flying at speeds of MACH 1 and over. The V2 was the World's first ICBM, if we go by the literal definition of "Inter Continental Balistic Missile". The maximum theoretical range of the V2 was one thousand miles, or almost the distance beteen Berlin and Rome. The reason why they weren't used for targets located at long distances was because the fuel required was too great to compensate for the minimal damage caused by the weapon, and that, at such distances, the accuracy of the V2 was very low. Theoretically, the V2 could expand it's maximum range to three thousand miles, enough to bomb America. It was never done because Germany couldn't afford to spend that much fuel on single missile and it would hit the target anywhere from 50 to 80 miles off, so it would be a huge waist of resources. Lucky Americans! As for radars, the city of Dusseldorf was evacuated three hours before the bombing raid of the British Air Force; they new it was coming due to their fantastic radars. In fact, the German radars could detect targets flying at altitudes of as little as 300 ft. You're the typical Yanky asshole, who likes to believe that the U.S has always been a World leader in science and technology, when in reality it only became a World scientific power in the 1950s, when it "imported" German scientists. You know nothing of history, so go do your homework before you try to discredit the post of someone who actually has a B.A in History - among other three. ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Supersonic speeds are 800+ miles per hour. The ME 262 was pushing 500 MPH. Where the f**k do you get your "facts" from? The British and Americans were far ahead in radar technology. How do you think the RAF decimated the Luftwaffa in the Battle for Britain despite being severely undermanned? By sheer luck? The British had many radar installations and the Germans didn't even realize the importance of them so they didn't even try to destroy them.They just kept bombing London to little effect. The V2 was able to reach Britain from inside France. Theoretically what it could do doesn't mean jack shit. They nor the ME 262 had any impact on the war. Case closed. ::) You may have a B.A. in bullshitting. ::)
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The US Army is enamored of the Germans..always has been. Dig a little deeper and all u see is shiny cool toys and a string of losses..kinda like the Indianapolis Colts...when it mattered, they folded. This was a team victory...we helped enough to keep the Soviets and Brits going..the major land battles were won by the Russians...Brit intelligence cracked codes etc etc.
That says it all.
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haha priceless! I think ive watched that movie at least 100 times
Lord Humongous, why do you have a picture of Wez as your avatar?
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haha priceless! I think ive watched that movie at least 100 times
"i will be allowed to fulfill my destiny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
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"i will be allowed to fulfill my destiny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
30 years from now when your sitting fireside with your grandson on your knee and and he asks what you did in the great WWII you wont have to say, "well, I shoveled shit in Louisiana."
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"if i could find those two Nazi sons of bitches i'd give them both medals"
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"Such a waste of fine infantry."
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Supersonic speeds are 800+ miles per hour. The ME 262 was pushing 500 MPH. Where the f**k do you get your "facts" from? The British and Americans were far ahead in radar technology. How do you think the RAF decimated the Luftwaffa in the Battle for Britain despite being severely undermanned? By sheer luck? The British had many radar installations and the Germans didn't even realize the importance of them so they didn't even try to destroy them.They just kept bombing London to little effect. The V2 was able to reach Britain from inside France. Theoretically what it could do doesn't mean jack shit. They nor the ME 262 had any impact on the war. Case closed. ::) You may have a B.A. in bullshitting. ::)
What an idiot you are. I actually feel sorry for you. You were probably taught this crap at an American Public school system. It is an undeniable fact that Germany used super-sonic fighter planes at the end of the war; they develped the technology, and then Lockhead Martin got it from German scientists who were detained by U.S forces at the end of the war, and kept incarcerated by the Aliies.
Breaking the nazi codes had nothing to do with the British: it was Swede mathematician, Arne Beurling, and a Hungarian one, ohn Von Neumann, who were responsible for breaking the codes.
The radar was invented by the British in 1935, granted, but the first surface detectant radar was German. German radars detected the Allied air force's planes flying to bomb Hannover three hours in advance. You're stupid and insane and I feel sorry for the education you were given.
The U.S only became a World scientific power in the 1950s, after it "imported" German scientists. Even in the 1930s, the number of U.S patents was very modest when compared to that of Europe. Even France, in the 1930s, with a population three times smaller than the U.S', had an equivalent number of patents in chemistry, engineering, medicine and the like. The American space program was an off-shot of the German rocket balistic program. Professor Werner Von Braun was the head of NASA until the early 1970s!
Even the fission bom, which Americans love to brag about, was only possible to the equations proposed by Einstein...a German. Sure, he was ewish, but also a German. In the Manhattan Proect, the number of foreigners was almost as great as Americans, so can't claim that as an exclusively American achievement.
I mean, it must hurt you greatly, that a large part of America's most advanced weaponry, was either invented by foreigners or in collaboration with them. You are an ignorant asshole, the provincial and egocentric type that's so common in America, and I sincerely hope your parents sue your school district for having failed you so miserably. ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Supersonic speeds are 800+ miles per hour. The ME 262 was pushing 500 MPH. Where the f**k do you get your "facts" from? The British and Americans were far ahead in radar technology. How do you think the RAF decimated the Luftwaffa in the Battle for Britain despite being severely undermanned? By sheer luck? The British had many radar installations and the Germans didn't even realize the importance of them so they didn't even try to destroy them.They just kept bombing London to little effect. The V2 was able to reach Britain from inside France. Theoretically what it could do doesn't mean jack shit. They nor the ME 262 had any impact on the war. Case closed. ::) You may have a B.A. in bullshitting. ::)
Speed of sound at sea level is 761mph or 1100 ft per second. Even at 500-550 miles an hour the ME 262 was 50-75 miles an hour faster than the P-51 Mustang. The problem was the ME262 didn't show up until almost at the end of the war. Germany was way ahead on jet tech. If Germany would have had this machine at the beginning or even 1/2 thru it could have changed the course,but that's a mighty big IF
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What an idiot you are. I actually feel sorry for you. You were probably taught this crap at an American Public school system. It is an undeniable fact that Germany used super-sonic fighter planes at the end of the war; they develped the technology, and then Lockhead Martin got it from German scientists who were detained by U.S forces at the end of the war, and kept incarcerated by the Aliies.
Breaking the nazi codes had nothing to do with the British: it was Swede mathematician, Arne Beurling, and a Hungarian one, ohn Von Neumann, who were responsible for breaking the codes.
The radar was invented by the British in 1935, granted, but the first surface detectant radar was German. German radars detected the Allied air force's planes flying to bomb Hannover three hours in advance. You're stupid and insane and I feel sorry for the education you were given.
The U.S only became a World scientific power in the 1950s, after it "imported" German scientists. Even in the 1930s, the number of U.S patents was very modest when compared to that of Europe. Even France, in the 1930s, with a population three times smaller than the U.S', had an equivalent number of patents in chemistry, engineering, medicine and the like. The American space program was an off-shot of the German rocket balistic program. Professor Werner Von Braun was the head of NASA until the early 1970s!
Even the fission bom, which Americans love to brag about, was only possible to the equations proposed by Einstein...a German. Sure, he was ewish, but also a German. In the Manhattan Proect, the number of foreigners was almost as great as Americans, so can't claim that as an exclusively American achievement.
I mean, it must hurt you greatly, that a large part of America's most advanced weaponry, was either invented by foreigners or in collaboration with them. You are an ignorant asshole, the provincial and egocentric type that's so common in America, and I sincerely hope your parents sue your school district for having failed you so miserably. ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Curious which jet reached super sonic speed? Are you talking about Hans Guido Mutke in his me-262?
From my understanding George Welch did it first in 1947 in level flight.
As far as your points about America recieving much of technological advancements from foreigners is true. Von Brohn (sp?) is the first to come to mind. Although, as you say Eistien contributed the formula for the A-bomb the formula was made a reality through the thousands that worked on the manhatten project.
I learned all this through the crappy American School system amazingly :)
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The debate isn't over having the jet. Suckmymuscle keeps saying the Germans had supersonic jets which is a blatant lie. And true ICBM's, another falsehood.
Speed of sound at sea level is 761mph or 1100 ft per second. Even at 500-550 miles an hour the ME 262 was 50-75 miles an hour faster than the P-51 Mustang. The problem was the ME262 didn't show up until almost at the end of the war. Germany was way ahead on jet tech. If Germany would have had this machine at the beginning or even 1/2 thru it could have changed the course,but that's a mighty big IF
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What an idiot you are. I actually feel sorry for you. You were probably taught this crap at an American Public school system. It is an undeniable fact that Germany used super-sonic fighter planes at the end of the war; they develped the technology, and then Lockhead Martin got it from German scientists who were detained by U.S forces at the end of the war, and kept incarcerated by the Aliies.
Breaking the nazi codes had nothing to do with the British: it was Swede mathematician, Arne Beurling, and a Hungarian one, ohn Von Neumann, who were responsible for breaking the codes.
The radar was invented by the British in 1935, granted, but the first surface detectant radar was German. German radars detected the Allied air force's planes flying to bomb Hannover three hours in advance. You're stupid and insane and I feel sorry for the education you were given.
The U.S only became a World scientific power in the 1950s, after it "imported" German scientists. Even in the 1930s, the number of U.S patents was very modest when compared to that of Europe. Even France, in the 1930s, with a population three times smaller than the U.S', had an equivalent number of patents in chemistry, engineering, medicine and the like. The American space program was an off-shot of the German rocket balistic program. Professor Werner Von Braun was the head of NASA until the early 1970s!
Even the fission bom, which Americans love to brag about, was only possible to the equations proposed by Einstein...a German. Sure, he was ewish, but also a German. In the Manhattan Proect, the number of foreigners was almost as great as Americans, so can't claim that as an exclusively American achievement.
I mean, it must hurt you greatly, that a large part of America's most advanced weaponry, was either invented by foreigners or in collaboration with them. You are an ignorant asshole, the provincial and egocentric type that's so common in America, and I sincerely hope your parents sue your school district for having failed you so miserably. ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Hey dopey. I knew Mr. Von Braun Personally. He used to visit us every year at our summer home in Branford, CT. He was a business associate of my uncle who worked in the defense and aeronautics industry. I stated that here on Getbig long ago. So lets not go there. These dumb american schools produce more Nobel Prize winners than the rest of the world combined. This dumb country has the best university system by far in the world. This dumb country is home to just about every high tech company in the world that matters. The German scientists were kept incarcerated by the allies? You are a fool. They all became American citizens, including Von Braun. Get over your jealousy.
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Hey dopey. I knew Mr. Von Braun Personally. he was a business associate of my uncle who worked in the defense industry. I stated that here on Getbig long ago. So lets not go there. These dumb american schools produce more Nobel Prize winners than the rest of the world combined. This dumb country has the best university system by far in the world. This dumb country is home to just about every high tech company in the world that matters. The german scietists were kept incarcerated by the allies? You are a fool. They all became American citizens, including Von Braun. Get over your jealousy.
Don't forget this "Dumb" country is pretty much is the most powerful nation on earth! ;D
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Don't forget this "Dumb" country is pretty much is the most powerful nation on earth! ;D
Guys like suckmymuscle can't deal with it.
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the Germans are the only imports who made this country great . . . the indigenous white folks (white Indians, i call 'em) . . . were only good for minor things like the Constitution, the railroads, Standard Oil, US Steel, Ford, etc. ::)
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the Germans are the only imports who made this country great . . . the indigenous white folks (white Indians, i call 'em) . . . were only good for minor things like the Constitution, the railroads, Standard Oil, US Steel, Ford, etc. ::)
Al-Gebra, nobody is knocking the Germans. I don't understand your post? ???
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Al-Gebra, nobody is knocking the Germans. I don't understand your post? ???
I'm being immensely sarcastic about claims that the Germans made us a superpower. guess i went overboard.
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I'm being immensely sarcastic about claims that the Germans made us a superpower. guess i went overboard.
Yeah, its 60 years later and we are still riding on their coat tails. ;)
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Yeah, its 60 years later and we are still ridning on their coat tails. ;)
yeah, so much so that we had to maintain immense bases in their country to facilitate our riding. :)
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yeah, so much so that we had to maintain immense bases in their country to facilitate our riding. :)
Yeah, those bases only had to house 350,000 American soldiers for 45 years.
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Hey dopey. I knew Mr. Von Braun Personally. He used to visit us every year at our summer home in Branford, CT. He was a business associate of my uncle who worked in the defense and aeronautics industry. I stated that here on Getbig long ago. So lets not go there. These dumb american schools produce more Nobel Prize winners than the rest of the world combined. This dumb country has the best university system by far in the world. This dumb country is home to just about every high tech company in the world that matters. The German scientists were kept incarcerated by the allies? You are a fool. They all became American citizens, including Von Braun. Get over your jealousy.
Still upset that I owned you on your bullshit claim that the Germans didn't have super-sonic technology at the end of World War 2? As for number of Nobelists, like I said, the U.S only ahieved this staus in the 1950s, when Europe was in ruins. Even France, which Americans love to put down so much, had a comparable number of Nobelists and more scientific patents registered than the U.S. Read the book by Harvrd professor, Charles Murray, entitled 'Human Accomplishment", and you'll learn that for some 600 years, from the 14th Century to the 1950s, practically all scientific, artistic and literary creations were made by Europeans. As for the tech industry, it fueled mostly by Indian, Chinese and Eastern European computer scientists. The U.S simply doesen't produce a high enough number of high-quality engineers to get it done. As for Von Braun, the basic fact remains the same: he was not a product of American Society, and the fact that he got naturalized is irrelevant to this effect. You also did nothing to counter the fact I presented that the Amerian space program was an off-shot from the Nazi rocket program based on Peenemunde.
Oh my, this travesty of not thinking that the U.S is not the greatest nation in the history of Humanity! How dare he! ::) I mean, the Chinese were wearing silk clothes and compasses, and that the Romans had public baths in an era when the modern U.S territory was inhabited by savages who practiced cannibalism. Or that, in the early 18th Century, the French were a World power which had achieved a level of cultural sophistication which eluds Americans to this day. Whatever, dude. Keep believing you red-neck fantasies about American greatness, while China surpasses the U.S in GNP and the European Union has already - again! - surpassed the U.S both in GNP and scientific patents. ;D ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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I don't know how many people remember this but I do. When the cold war ended and the US started to close many army bases in Germany. As these bases closed many German communities around these bases did very much to show appreciation by having big celebrations, throwing parties. All sorts of happy festivities amongst Germans and Americans. Many tears were shed on both sides. When the Russians left East Germany and the Eastern Bloc countries literally they had to fight there way out. People hurled rocks at them, took potshots, scream epithets etc.. But America is so bad. :(
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Still upset that I owned you on your bullshit claim that the Germans didn't have super-sonic technology at the end of World War 2? As for number of Nobelists, like I said, the U.S only ahieved this staus in the 1950s, when Europe was in ruins. Even France, whih americans love to put down so much, had a comparable number of Nobelists and more scientific patents registered than the U.S. Read the book by Harvrd professor, Charles Murray, entitled 'Human Accomplishment", and you'll learn that for some 600 years, from the 14th Century to the 1950s, practically all scientific, artistic and literary creations were made by Europeans. as for the tech industry, it fueled mostly by Indian, Chinese and Eastern European computer scientists. The U.S simply doesen't produce a high enough numberof high-quality engineers to get it done. As for Von Braun, the basic fact remains the same: he was not a product of American Society, and the fact that he got naturalized is irrelevant tothis effect. you also did nothing to counter the fact I presented that the Amerian space program was an off-shot from the Nazi rocket program based on Peenemunde.
Oh my, this travesty of not thinking that the U.S is not the greatest nation in the history of Humanity! How dare he! ::) I mean, the Chinese were wearing silk clothes and compasses, and that the Romans had public baths in an era when the modern U.S territory was inhabited by savages who practiced cannibalism. Or that, in the early 18th Century, the French were a World power which had achieved a level of cultural sophistication which eluds Americans to this day. Whatever, dude. Keep believing you red-neck fantasies about American greatness, while China surpasses the U.S in GNP and the European Union has already - again! - surpassed the U.S both in GNP and scientific patents. ;D ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Umm not to get in the middle of you 2 but you still haven't really addressed the alleged super sonic technology the Germans had.
Which plane broke the sound barrier at level flight before the Americans did in 1947?
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Still upset that I owned you on your bullshit claim that the Germans didn't have super-sonic technology at the end of World War 2? As for number of Nobelists, like I said, the U.S only ahieved this staus in the 1950s, when Europe was in ruins. Even France, which Americans love to put down so much, had a comparable number of Nobelists and more scientific patents registered than the U.S. Read the book by Harvrd professor, Charles Murray, entitled 'Human Accomplishment", and you'll learn that for some 600 years, from the 14th Century to the 1950s, practically all scientific, artistic and literary creations were made by Europeans. As for the tech industry, it fueled mostly by Indian, Chinese and Eastern European computer scientists. The U.S simply doesen't produce a high enough number of high-quality engineers to get it done. As for Von Braun, the basic fact remains the same: he was not a product of American Society, and the fact that he got naturalized is irrelevant to this effect. You also did nothing to counter the fact I presented that the Amerian space program was an off-shot from the Nazi rocket program based on Peenemunde.
Oh my, this travesty of not thinking that the U.S is not the greatest nation in the history of Humanity! How dare he! ::) I mean, the Chinese were wearing silk clothes and compasses, and that the Romans had public baths in an era when the modern U.S territory was inhabited by savages who practiced cannibalism. Or that, in the early 18th Century, the French were a World power which had achieved a level of cultural sophistication which eluds Americans to this day. Whatever, dude. Keep believing you red-neck fantasies about American greatness, while China surpasses the U.S in GNP and the European Union has already - again! - surpassed the U.S both in GNP and scientific patents. ;D ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
300 million Americans are living the "fantasy" about American greatness. Its a pretty vivid fantasy too. I could swear its real life. Maybe I should pinch myself. Ahahahah! I have no clue what country you are from but your jealousy is so strong you can feel it.
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Still upset that I owned you on your bullshit claim that the Germans didn't have super-sonic technology at the end of World War 2? As for number of Nobelists, like I said, the U.S only ahieved this staus in the 1950s, when Europe was in ruins. Even France, which Americans love to put down so much, had a comparable number of Nobelists and more scientific patents registered than the U.S. Read the book by Harvrd professor, Charles Murray, entitled 'Human Accomplishment", and you'll learn that for some 600 years, from the 14th Century to the 1950s, practically all scientific, artistic and literary creations were made by Europeans. As for the tech industry, it fueled mostly by Indian, Chinese and Eastern European computer scientists. The U.S simply doesen't produce a high enough number of high-quality engineers to get it done. As for Von Braun, the basic fact remains the same: he was not a product of American Society, and the fact that he got naturalized is irrelevant to this effect. You also did nothing to counter the fact I presented that the Amerian space program was an off-shot from the Nazi rocket program based on Peenemunde.
Oh my, this travesty of not thinking that the U.S is not the greatest nation in the history of Humanity! How dare he! ::) I mean, the Chinese were wearing silk clothes and compasses, and that the Romans had public baths in an era when the modern U.S territory was inhabited by savages who practiced cannibalism. Or that, in the early 18th Century, the French were a World power which had achieved a level of cultural sophistication which eluds Americans to this day. Whatever, dude. Keep believing you red-neck fantasies about American greatness, while China surpasses the U.S in GNP and the European Union has already - again! - surpassed the U.S both in GNP and scientific patents. ;D ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Owned me? Your haven't substiantiated one of your claims. Nor have you been able to refute a single one of mine. ::)
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Oh my, this travesty of not thinking that the U.S is not the greatest nation in the history of Humanity! How dare he! ::) I mean, the Chinese were wearing silk clothes and compasses, and that the Romans had public baths in an era when the modern U.S territory was inhabited by savages who practiced cannibalism. Or that, in the early 18th Century, the French were a World power which had achieved a level of cultural sophistication which eluds Americans to this day. Whatever, dude. Keep believing you red-neck fantasies about American greatness, while China surpasses the U.S in GNP and the European Union has already - again! - surpassed the U.S both in GNP and scientific patents. ;D ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Who cares about the early 1800's? Duh, "were a world power". The key word is "were" as in past tense. They folded like a tent in three weeks in 1940. The Chinese GNP is so far behind the USA right now its laughable. Most Chinese are still peasant farmers. True, someday they may pass the USA as an economic power. That day could be far off and is far from certain.
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True, someday they may pass the USA as an economic power. That day could be far off and is far from certain.
Actually, both the BID as well as the I.M.F predict this will happen before 2020, in ust another decade. China is already the World's fourth largest economy, and it grows at a rate of 10% a year. Once again, you got owned by yours truly. ;) Go study, boy. ;D
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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the Germans are the only imports who made this country great . . . the indigenous white folks (white Indians, i call 'em) . . . were only good for minor things like the Constitution, the railroads, Standard Oil, US Steel, Ford, etc. ::)
Yeah ur right we suck ;D
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Actually, both the BID as well as the I.M.F predict this will happen before 2020, in ust another decade. China is already the World's fourth largest economy, and it grows at a rate of 10% a year. Once again, you got owned by yours truly. ;) Go study, boy. ;D
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Ok, I am really owned. ::) Lets just say the Chinese reach the same GNP as the USA by 2020. With1.5 billion people to distribute that wealth among. The USA will probably have 320 million people or less than a quarter of the Chinese population to distribute the wealth amongst. I would say the country with 320 million is still ahead by a country mile. ::) Per capita still far and away a richer, more prosperous nation by any measure.