Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: John Romano on September 22, 2006, 08:28:48 AM
-
Right from the Pro League Rules from the IFBB website:
"8.5 List of Prohibited Substances and Prohibited Methods:
The Pro League Medical Committee at its discretion will determine the
substances and methods that are prohibited, that are to be tested for, and that
constitute a doping offence. A list of prohibited substances and methods will be
maintained by the Pro League Medical Committee and will be made available to
all Athletes. The Pro League adopts the Rule of Strict Liability wherein Athletes
are solely responsible for what is found in their samples."
I know several pros and none of them have seen such a list. Hell, none of them have even seen the damn rule book! Have any of you guys I don't know ever seen this list? Or a rule book? Have any of you been tested?
Deciding to enforce one rule while flouting the others is going to make it hard for the IFBB's lawyers to prevail when Lee sues them.
-
hahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
I bolded the unreadable part.
Thanks. I just learned you can't highlight in yellow ;D
-
The rulebook is located on the IFBB website and can be downloaded if anyone cares enough to see it...
BTW John...to this date, not one pro has expressed concern to me as to why they HAVEN'T been tested.
When they start testing one person, and not another...now we have an issue with "selectively enforcing the rules".
-
The rulebook is located on the IFBB website and can be downloaded if anyone cares enough to see it...
BTW John...to this date, not one pro has expressed concern to me as to why they HAVEN'T been tested.
With all due respect, Bob, it is not up to the members to police the organization. If the federation has promulgated a set of rules they should follow ALL of them, not just pick and choose those that are economical or convenient.
-
When they start testing one person, and not another...now we have an issue with "selectively enforcing the rules".
Stupid statement......you don't think suspending Lee for going to another organization and not drug testing isn't "selectively enforcing the rules"??
Nice spin Bob!!
-
With all due respect, Bob, it is not up to the members to police the organization. If the federation has promulgated a set of rules they should follow ALL of them, not just pick and choose those that are economical or convenient.
Excellent point John
-
Deciding to enforce one rule while flouting the others is going to make it hard for the IFBB's lawyers to prevail when Lee sues them.
Rick Collins writes for you guys and you're friends with him. What's his take on this, considering he is the IFBB legal counsel?
-
With all due respect, Bob, it is not up to the members to police the organization. If the federation has promulgated a set of rules they should follow ALL of them, not just pick and choose those that are economical or convenient.
MONSTER need of a dictionary after reading this post.
Bob - care to break out your jaywalking analogy on this one again?
-
Rick Collins writes for you guys and you're friends with him. What's his take on this, considering he is the IFBB legal counsel?
Rick and I haven't been able to have a conversation "on the record" regarding this. As soon as we do, I'll let you know.
-
Stupid statement......you don't think suspending Lee for going to another organization and not drug testing isn't "selectively enforcing the rules"??
Nice spin Bob!!
No, I don't...If they suspended Lee and not Valentin, THATS selective and certainly not fair.
It's clearly stated in the rule book that the IFBB retains the right to drug test,l and if your found in violation, you can be suspended, etc...
-
MONSTER need of a dictionary after reading this post.
Bob - care to break out your jay walking analogy on this one again?
promulgate |?präm?l?g?t; pr??m?l-| verb [ trans. ] promote or make widely known (an idea or cause) : these objectives have to be promulgated within the organization. See note at announce . • put (a law or decree) into effect by official proclamation : in January 1852, the new constitution was promulgated.
Hope this helps ;D
-
Its funny that people think that Chick can do things to change the decisions of the 'powers' that be. He is only a messenger and representative, he has no true power to do anything. Dont be so hard on him
-
promulgate |?präm?l?g?t; pr??m?l-| verb [ trans. ] promote or make widely known (an idea or cause) : these objectives have to be promulgated within the organization. See note at announce . • put (a law or decree) into effect by official proclamation : in January 1852, the new constitution was promulgated.
Hope this helps ;D
are you insinuating that "Lift Studios" is an IFBB towel boy, John?
-
promulgate |?präm?l?g?t; pr??m?l-| verb [ trans. ] promote or make widely known (an idea or cause) : these objectives have to be promulgated within the organization. See note at announce . • put (a law or decree) into effect by official proclamation : in January 1852, the new constitution was promulgated.
Hope this helps ;D
See kids, yet again proving that Getbig is not only highly entertaining but also very informative.
The word of the day is promulgate.
That helped taking a trip to dictionary.com, thanks! ;D
-
No, I don't...If they suspended Lee and not Valentin, THATS selective and certainly not fair.
It's clearly stated in the rule book that the IFBB retains the right to drug test,l and if your found in violation, you can be suspended, etc...
Come on Bob! If they are reserving the right to enforce their rules, then they're not rules but merely a suggestion! Like traffic laws in Mexico.
And the article says "will determin" not "might determin."
-
Exactly issac...
There are many rules/ laws we live under that are 'selectively enforced"...like jaywalking.
Even nthough it's clearly against the law, punishable by fine/ imprisonment...rarely do they enforce it.
Whether or not the IFBB CHOOSES to test is irrelevent, the onus is on THEM to impose drug testing...not us....and if they were to test, it would have to be equal.
-
are you insinuating that "Lift Studios" is an IFBB towel boy, John?
Of course not! I'm just being my usual helpful self ;D
-
Come on Bob! If they are reserving the right to enforce their rules, then they're not rules but merely a suggestion! Like traffic laws in Mexico.
And the article says "will determin" not "might determin."
It also says "...at it's discretion".
case closed.
-
"what is a law, it seems to vary from time to time, place to place, what's legal today is suddenly illegal tomorrow because some society says it's so and what's illegal today is suddenly legal because everybody's doing it and you can't put everybody in jail, i'm not saying it's right or wrong i'm just saying that's the way it is"
Billy Hayes in Midnight Express
-
Exactly issac...
There are many rules/ laws we live under that are 'selectively enforced"...like jaywalking.
Even nthough it's clearly against the law, punishable by fine/ imprisonment...rarely do they enforce it.
Whether or not the IFBB CHOOSES to test is irrelevent, the onus is on THEM to impose drug testing...not us....and if they were to test, it would have to be equal.
Okay, so then why would a federation of such few rules choose to enforce the one about not competing anywhere else so you can make a few extra bucks, and choose not to enforce a rule that by flouting it could jeopardize one's health? Clearly that is not the IFBB's intension:
"8.1 Policy Statement:
Sport involves physical health and fitness, mental application and dedication to
training. Doping – the use of prohibited substances and/or prohibited methods –
to artificially enhance performance is unethical, contrary to the concept of fair
play, undermines the values of sport, and can endanger the health of the athletes."
-
You know exactly why...because it keeps all the best bodybuilders under the IFBB roof, thus maintaining their dominance over any other BB federation in the world.
It's a rule that was imposed years ago when the IFBB, AAU, NABBA, WABBA, WBBG, etc. were all jockying for position, trying to lure the best to their respective federations, magazines, endorse their products...
It's still a business at the end of the day. Not too different from magazines which have exclusivity, and prevent their athletes from "making a few extra bucks..." writing columns for other magazines. Why should they care? Yes, I realize that the mags are paying their athletes directly...but the IFBB feels that by being exclusive to them, you (as an IFBB athlete) are exposed to more opportunity, bigger prize money, contracts, endorsements, etc...
Hard to argue with the reesults, as more IFBB pro's have contracts, etc. then any other athletes from any other organization...
-
You know exactly why...because it keeps all the best bodybuilders under the IFBB roof, thus maintaining their dominance over any other BB federation in the world.
It's a rule that was imposed years ago when the IFBB, AAU, NABBA, WABBA, WBBG, etc. were all jockying for position, trying to lure the best to their respective federations, magazines, endorse their products...
It's still a business at the end of the day. Not too different from magazines which have exclusivity, and prevent their athletes from "making a few extra bucks..." writing columns for other magazines. Why should they care? Yes, I realize that the mags are paying their athletes directly...but the IFBB feels that by being exclusive to them, you (as an IFBB athlete) are exposed to more opportunity, bigger prize money, contracts, endorsements, etc...
Hard to argue with the reesults, as more IFBB pro's have contracts, etc. then any other athletes from any other organization...
Yes, but they don't have an IFBB contract. If the IFBB was paying the athletes directly, they could have more authority over their earning capacity because they are in fact supplying one.
The IFBB is saying their rules are completely arbitrary and subject to discresion unless you try to seek employment outside the IFBB (who isn't paying you).
-
Not exactly...they're saying , "this is what we offer if you pledge your alliegience to us..." No one is forced to join the Pro league/ IFBB...any athlete is free to join any other organization they wish, they just can't do both...that's the right you give up to gain access to all the IFBB has to offer.
-
Hey chick,
why don't they drug test IFBB shows?
-
Not exactly...they're saying , "this is what we offer if you pledge your alliegience to us..." No one is forced to join the Pro league/ IFBB...any athlete is free to join any other organization they wish, they just can't do both...that's the right you give up to gain access to all the IFBB has to offer.
That would be cool if all that were up for grabs were bragging rights. Limiting one's access to earn income is the issue. And since it is, the legality of "they just can't do both.." comes into play.
-
I realize this...that's why I have a proposal in place to allow for athletes to make more money with appearances, expo's, guest posings, etc
-
Sounds like a very good proposal.
-
Sounds like a very good proposal.
Except it doesn't include competition in other orgs.
-
I realize this...that's why I have a proposal in place to allow for athletes to make more money with appearances, expo's, guest posings, etc
Yes!!
AMENDMENT OF SECT 1.7
Amendment of section 1.7 of the IFBB Pro League rules. Athletes WILL be allowed to make appearances on behalf of companies they represent and/ or as individuals to: (including but not limited to) non –sanctioned events, expo’s, guest posing, appearances, seminars, openings, etc. As IFBB athletes are listed as “independent contractors” by our own IFBB by laws and therefore cannot be limited in their ability to make a living from being a professional.
Athlete would be required to be a IFBB athlete in good standing, and any and all promotional items, advertisements, etc linked to said event(s) would require that athlete be billed and represented as an IFBB athlete.
By virtue of omission, competitions?
-
Bob, does the IFBB pay for the medals, trophies, and prize money in professional or amateur bodybuilding contests?
I am pretty sure they don't. That means that the benefits that bodybuilders get comes from promoters, fans, and gyms. How does the IFBB directly benefit the bodybuilders?
-
So, where do we go from here? Says Ben Weider, "The answer is simple … we continue the fight! There is too much at stake for the future of the IFBB, the sport and our athletes to give in, even one iota, to cheaters. Drug-free sport is the goal of the IOC, WADA, NADO's [National Anti-Doping Agencies], and governments worldwide. Appropriately, it is the goal of the IFBB as well."
-
So, where do we go from here? Says Ben Weider, "The answer is simple … we continue the fight! There is too much at stake for the future of the IFBB, the sport and our athletes to give in, even one iota, to cheaters. Drug-free sport is the goal of the IOC, WADA, NADO's [National Anti-Doping Agencies], and governments worldwide. Appropriately, it is the goal of the IFBB as well."
hahahaha
-
So, where do we go from here? Says Ben Weider, "The answer is simple … we continue the fight! There is too much at stake for the future of the IFBB, the sport and our athletes to give in, even one iota, to cheaters. Drug-free sport is the goal of the IOC, WADA, NADO's [National Anti-Doping Agencies], and governments worldwide. Appropriately, it is the goal of the IFBB as well."
Not in our lifetimes Vince (and I'm only 32). As I've argued in the past...If drugs are removed from the "sport", then many hobbyists could look bigger and better than the pros, and the whole industry would crumble. It's the same reason (in principle) that people would rather watch amateur male sports (for free) than pay to watch female professionals.
Drugs would have to be removed 100 percent from the public before bodybuilding could be successfull natural. Even then, people would always compare the new, smaller pros to the giants of the past. The genie's been out of the bottle since D-Bol 60 years ago.
-
The rulebook is located on the IFBB website and can be downloaded if anyone cares enough to see it...
BTW John...to this date, not one pro has expressed concern to me as to why they HAVEN'T been tested.
When they start testing one person, and not another...now we have an issue with "selectively enforcing the rules".
No way! You are saying not one of the drug infested Pro is complaining because they aren't getting drug tested. YOu don't say. Wow this is huge news.
-
BTW John...to this date, not one pro has expressed concern to me as to why they HAVEN'T been tested.
No shit??? ??? Who whudda thunkd it ::)
-
"what is a law, it seems to vary from time to time, place to place, what's legal today is suddenly illegal tomorrow because some society says it's so and what's illegal today is suddenly legal because everybody's doing it and you can't put everybody in jail, i'm not saying it's right or wrong i'm just saying that's the way it is"
Billy Hayes in Midnight Express
Awesome movie.
-
I don't post often but reading the forum everyday and seeing what is going on I had to post my two cents.
1.) This is probably been stated before but it amazes me that the IFBB cares more about following there own rules than that of the actual laws.
2.) What the IFBB is doing to the BB's today is like what Hollywood did with the blacklisting actors back in the day, everyone should have the right to earn a living and I personal could give a crap whether a BB is using steroids are not it is not going to help them on the stage because the judges are blinded by the "chain of command".
3.) I wonder what is the recourse to the BB's if all the proposal that Bob is trying to get amended get rejected, most likely nothing because every IFBB pro is being black balled.
4.) I do think that there needs to be some major changes to the IFBB (ex: the governing council that decides on such amendments should include three IFBB reps, three Pros, and one independent for a tie breaker) then at least the BB's would have a semi chance in winning more rights for the freedom to make a living and other rights.
5.) How I look at it is if the BB isn't competing that same night in two different organizations then who gives a shit.