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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: The Luke on September 25, 2006, 05:47:31 PM

Title: Advice for Lee Priest: Discussion of suspension
Post by: The Luke on September 25, 2006, 05:47:31 PM
I hope this thread doesn't get deleted... at the very least I think this is an interesting topic for discussion.

Having followed the events relating to the recent PDI Night of Champions contest and the ensuing repercussions with much interest, I must admit that I find myself simultaneously both ashamed of the IFBB's practices and impressed of the quality of character exemplified by Lee Priest throughout the whole debacle.

Henceforth, in the twin interests of both the comraderie all iron brothers share (or should share) and the anarchic meddling I so enjoy, I have (mis)used every point of my 140 IQ in order to put together a list of obstructionist tactics Mr Priest can employ as he sees fit to thwart the IFBB's evil machinations...

#1... PROOF OF INFRACTION
...the basis of Mr Priest's suspension is the IFBB's assertion that he competed in an unsanctioned bodybuilding event, namely the PDI NoC contest. The burden of proof then falls on the IFBB themselves to prove to the standard of proof required by the civil courts (preponderance of the evidence) that Mr Priest did in fact participate in the aforementioned unsanctioned event.
This presents several problems for the IFBB...

-the testimony of IFBB members present at the event would not suffice as it could easily be countered by the contradictory testimony of other witnesses nominated by Mr Priest, and by it's nature would be biased.

-the testimony of IFBB officials who were witness to the infraction would not suffice as it could easily be countered by the assertion that attending the contest (buying a ticket) is also a breach of the same regulations regarding the suport of other organisations. Unless said official was also suspended and facing similar disciplinary actions to Mr Priest, his/her/it's testimony would be considered biased and/or coerced.

-the testimony (or affidavid/deposition) of the promoter (Wayne DeMilia) would not suffice (not without corroborating proof) as the argument could be made that Mr DeMilia, a former employee of the IFBB who is well versed in it's rules and regulations who is now in competition with same is attempting to scupper Mr Priest's status as an active IFBB pro competitor in good satnding thereby leaving Mr Priest no other option but to compete in Mr DeMilia's rival PDI organisation in order to continue to earn a living. (Assuming that Mr DeMilia would in fact testify on behalf of either party)

-videotape evidence would have to be of exceptionally high quality and attested to as being unaltered/unedited by a photographic expert agreed upon by both parties (the IFBB and Mr Priest). Mr Priest's image is widely available in the public domain and with the advent of and ubiquitous nature of advanced graphics software, easily manipulated/modified/edited. Most likely, two high-definition continuous (unedited) videotapes taken from differing angles would be necessary to confirm Mr Priest's participation in the aforementioned unsanctioned event. The IFBB would have to present these, assuming they could procure them.

-evidence of Mr Priest's assertions that he did in fact compete in the aforementioned unsanctioned event would also not suffice in the face of Mr Priest denying any such involvement in court as there is no rule in the IFBB regulations forbiding active members of the pro division from CLAIMING to have competed in unsanctioned events, only against their PARTICIPATION... should Mr Priest deny any such involvement the onus of proof then shifts to the IFBB to prove such.

#2 VERIFICATION OF SUSPENSION
Having recieved his letter of suspension from the IFBB, Mr Priest has the right to make enquiries with the IFBB in order to officially confirm his suspension. Should Mr Priest claim to have made such enquiries then once again the burden of proof would be on the IFBB to PROVE that they had in fact confirmed Mr Priest's enquiries.
This also presents certain problems for the IFBB...

-the verification of the suspension would have to be proven: recorded minutes of a meeting or a recorded telephone call or even a registered letter.

-a registered letter confirming Mr Priest's suspension would have to contain reference to Mr Priest's enquiries regarding his suspension in order to establish that Mr Priest was under no assumption that his original letter of suspension was a hoax/prank perpetrated by a malicious/mischevious third party.

-the verification of suspension (if done by letter) would have to be issued by the same office and signed by the same person as the IFBB rules and regulations stipulate that only the President of the IFBB can suspend an active athlete from the professional division.

-if Mr Priest can prove that attempts to verify his suspended status went unanswered then it could be deemed reasonable for him to have assumed his suspension a joke/hoax perpetrated by an uninvolved third party. Should Mr Priest find himself at financial loss (contest purses/lost endorsements) as a result of the IFBB's delay/failure in responding to his enquiries... then the IFBB could be found liable for said financial losses.



After all of this is sorted out Lee could then continue to obstruct the IFBB by means of tackling the more thorny issues...
-membership entitlements of the pro division
-refunding of his pro card dues
-agreement on the compliment of the disciplinary panel
-agreement on the compliment of the appeal panel
-postponement of his suspension till the date his paid dues expire

I could list the semantic complications of each but you get the gist of my argument.


The Luke
Title: Re: Advice for Lee Priest
Post by: knny187 on September 25, 2006, 05:54:12 PM
that was way too much to read....or even attempt to read.....


but I support Lee Priest

 ;)
Title: Re: Advice for Lee Priest
Post by: SteelePegasus on September 25, 2006, 05:58:17 PM
at the very least your "stall" tactics would allow Lee to compete at the O
Title: Re: Advice for Lee Priest
Post by: SWOLETRAIN on September 25, 2006, 05:59:17 PM
LEE PRIEST!!!!!!
Title: Re: Advice for Lee Priest
Post by: figgs on September 25, 2006, 06:00:59 PM
YEAH!! YOU'RE THE MAN, LEE!!!
Title: Re: Advice for Lee Priest
Post by: G o a t b o y on September 25, 2006, 06:04:53 PM
#1... PROOF OF INFRACTION
...the basis of Mr Priest's suspension is the IFBB's assertion that he competed in an unsanctioned bodybuilding event, namely the PDI NoC contest. The burden of proof then falls on the IFBB themselves to prove to the standard of proof required by the civil courts (preponderance of the evidence) that Mr Priest did in fact participate in the aforementioned unsanctioned event.
This presents several problems for the IFBB...

-the testimony of IFBB members present at the event would not suffice as it could easily be countered by the contradictory testimony of other witnesses nominated by Mr Priest, and by it's nature would be biased.

-the testimony of IFBB officials who were witness to the infraction would not suffice as it could easily be countered by the assertion that attending the contest (buying a ticket) is also a breach of the same regulations regarding the suport of other organisations. Unless said official was also suspended and facing similar disciplinary actions to Mr Priest, his/her/it's testimony would be considered biased and/or coerced.

-the testimony (or affidavid/deposition) of the promoter (Wayne DeMilia) would not suffice (not without corroborating proof) as the argument could be made that Mr DeMilia, a former employee of the IFBB who is well versed in it's rules and regulations who is now in competition with same is attempting to scupper Mr Priest's status as an active IFBB pro competitor in good satnding thereby leaving Mr Priest no other option but to compete in Mr DeMilia's rival PDI organisation in order to continue to earn a living. (Assuming that Mr DeMilia would in fact testify on behalf of either party)

-videotape evidence would have to be of exceptionally high quality and attested to as being unaltered/unedited by a photographic expert agreed upon by both parties (the IFBB and Mr Priest). Mr Priest's image is widely available in the public domain and with the advent of and ubiquitous nature of advanced graphics software, easily manipulated/modified/edited. Most likely, two high-definition continuous (unedited) videotapes taken from differing angles would be necessary to confirm Mr Priest's participation in the aforementioned unsanctioned event. The IFBB would have to present these, assuming they could procure them.

-evidence of Mr Priest's assertions that he did in fact compete in the aforementioned unsanctioned event would also not suffice in the face of Mr Priest denying any such involvement in court as there is no rule in the IFBB regulations forbiding active members of the pro division from CLAIMING to have competed in unsanctioned events, only against their PARTICIPATION... should Mr Priest deny any such involvement the onus of proof then shifts to the IFBB to prove such.


For Christ's sake.... there were 1500 witnesses!  Plus photos! Plus video! Plus Lee repeatedly admitting it publicly.  If you can't prove Lee did the NOC, you can't prove anything, at all, ever!  "Preponderance of the evidence"?? There's enough here to more than satisfy even a "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard!  So much for those 140 IQ points.  ::)

Lee's defense lies in the impropriety and illegality of the rule itself....  not in somehow claiming "he didn't do it".  ::)
Title: Re: Advice for Lee Priest
Post by: mrsirjojo on September 25, 2006, 06:10:32 PM
Henceforth, in the twin interests of both the comraderie all iron brothers share (or should share) and the anarchic meddling I so enjoy, I have (mis)used every point of my 140 IQ in order to put together a list of obstructionist tactics Mr Priest can employ as he sees fit to thwart the IFBB's evil machinations...
The Luke

"People who boast about their IQ are losers." -- Prof. Stephen Hawking

That's Affidavit....
Title: Re: Advice for Lee Priest
Post by: HRDCOR on September 25, 2006, 06:20:55 PM
There are many many ways Lee could approach this case , but I still beleive his first move is to seek a court injunction on the suspension , and to seek it quick smart !!
Title: Re: Advice for Lee Priest
Post by: The Luke on September 25, 2006, 07:27:21 PM
Can anyone name a single person who was at the NOC contest, not affiliated with the IFBB, who would testify to the fact that Lee competed ON BEHALF OF THE IFBB??

I bet a few GetBiggers would gladly testify on Lee's behalf that he WASN'T there...


Try to realise that the objective is not to win any of these arguments, just to make it more trouble than it's worth for the IFBB.


"People who boast about their IQ are losers." -- Prof. Stephen Hawking
Just for the record hawking was joking when he said that, he's actually an avid IQ eugenicist who regularly makes jokes about the widening difference between the average and mean IQ.

The Luke
Title: Re: Advice for Lee Priest
Post by: Lee_a_priest on September 25, 2006, 07:49:49 PM
Very good post.People just go to the press confrence and start chanting bullshit to ifbb rules and at contest and any other place a blue blazer is seen. :)  Your the fans so be heard they can suspend me but not the fans.....FANS = DOLLARS
Title: Re: Advice for Lee Priest
Post by: ARMZ on September 25, 2006, 07:51:39 PM
Lee did not compete at the NOC.. I was there and saw that superman won the show and all the other guys were skinny..  
Title: Re: Advice for Lee Priest
Post by: G o a t b o y on September 25, 2006, 08:14:55 PM
Very good post.People just go to the press confrence and start chanting bullshit to ifbb rules and at contest and any other place a blue blazer is seen. :)  Your the fans so be heard they can suspend me but not the fans.....FANS = DOLLARS


T-shirts to wear at the olympia:   "Reinstate Lee Priest!" on the front, "Shove Rule 1.7 up your arse, Ben!" on the back.
Title: Re: Advice for Lee Priest
Post by: Lee_a_priest on September 25, 2006, 08:23:00 PM

T-shirts to wear at the olympia:   "Reinstate Lee Priest!" on the front, "Shove Rule 1.7 up your arse, Ben!" on the back.

Yeah cool shirt.I know if i wore it i would be kicked out.Then what would i do? Oh it's Vegas..... Buffets ..mmmmmmm
Title: Re: Advice for Lee Priest
Post by: onlyme on September 25, 2006, 08:32:07 PM
Lee did not compete at the NOC.. I was there and saw that superman won the show and all the other guys were skinny..  

I first thought it was Lee I saw at the NOC but after putting on my glasses it was Vince G. My mistake ;D
Title: Re: Advice for Lee Priest
Post by: mrsirjojo on September 26, 2006, 08:31:40 AM
"People who boast about their IQ are losers." -- Prof. Stephen Hawking
Just for the record hawking was joking when he said that, he's actually an avid IQ eugenicist who regularly makes jokes about the widening difference between the average and mean IQ.

The Luke

You write several paragraphs of thesaurus-aided legal jibberish, your entire argument is, laughably, that it can't be proven legally that Lee was actually at the NOC, and you don't know how to spell affidavit?
Now I don't go after casual posters, and I'm no grammar nazi, but if you start an article off by telling everyone how smart you are, you should really try harder not to end up as the king of self owning.

Also, people with IQs of 90 know the difference between "its" and "it's".

Stephen Hawking called. He asked me to ask you to refrain from reproducing. Something about eugenics and "the betterment of mankind".

Title: Re: Advice for Lee Priest: Discussion of suspension
Post by: HowieW on September 26, 2006, 08:46:17 AM
hmmmmm, since when has the IFBB enforced with its actual written rules. What about the 47 page document on doping control and rug testing???????? The sport is a cult type activity where everyone follows the actual UNwritten rules.
Title: Re: Advice for Lee Priest: Discussion of suspension
Post by: Adam Empire on September 26, 2006, 09:01:06 AM
hmmmmm, since when has the IFBB enforced with its actual written rules. What about the 47 page document on doping control and rug testing???????? The sport is a cult type activity where everyone follows the actual UNwritten rules.

I believe Shawn Ray failed the Rug testing one year.
Title: Re: Advice for Lee Priest: Discussion of suspension
Post by: Figo on September 26, 2006, 09:38:40 AM
I believe Shawn Ray failed the Rug testing one year.

Shit! They're testing rugs? Derek Anthony's career's over..
Title: Re: Advice for Lee Priest
Post by: The Luke on September 26, 2006, 10:49:16 AM
You write several paragraphs of thesaurus-aided legal jibberish, your entire argument is, laughably, that it can't be proven legally that Lee was actually at the NOC, and you don't know how to spell affidavit?
Now I don't go after casual posters, and I'm no grammar nazi, but if you start an article off by telling everyone how smart you are, you should really try harder not to end up as the king of self owning.

Also, people with IQs of 90 know the difference between "its" and "it's".

Stephen Hawking called. He asked me to ask you to refrain from reproducing. Something about eugenics and "the betterment of mankind".



mrsirjojo,

I think a quick rereading of my original post would assuage any hostility towards my argument...
>imagine Johnny Cochran shouting those paragraphs in his trademark punctuated dictation and you'll have the right sense of gravitas
>I wasn't aware that I had misspelled "affidavit", my bad... I'm Irish and sometimes have to make guesses about American-ese spellings
>I do understand the difference between "its" a "it's"... but when you write a couple of pages in an effort to entertain your fellow GetBiggers mistakes can be made
>the IQ line is a joke... the highest I've ever scored on an IQ test is the 130-135 range (I've also tested as low as 120 for what it's worth)
>I didn't use a thesaurus

I'm not attempting to argue that Lee could utilise any of these arguments... just that he could raise these arguments in an effort to obstruct the IFBB. Ben Weider might be a little slower to sign those suspension letters if he thought he'd have to compile a full legal dossier to produce in court... fact-checking and evidence gathering take time and cost money.

Get a sense of humour dude... it'll make life a lot easier for you.

The Luke
Title: Re: Advice for Lee Priest: Discussion of suspension
Post by: HowieW on September 26, 2006, 11:44:29 AM
I believe Shawn Ray failed the Rug testing one year.

Sorry for the typo LOL drug not rug .
Ok , back in the early 90's the IFBB began to phase in full scale drug testing. Shawn Ray fell victim to it back at the 91 ASC. This became a major problem from a legal and testing protocol standpoint, and was pushed out quickly. The IFBB began to test for diuretics a few years ago, to again phase in testing. They tried to gig Jay Cutler at the 2001 O for diuretics. Jay, rightfully contested this and won as the IFBB dropped the case , useing lack of an IOC approved lab as the reason. I think Jay knew that the IFBB would look pretty lame trying to explain their drug testing or (rather lack thereof ) to a NON bodybuilding judge in open court.
My point was and still is that trying to use standard conventional LEGAL means in a sport that rarely follows the law or its own rules (DRUGS) is a bit wacky in my opinion.
It is like two illegal bookies trying to get a judge to decide who has the gambling "rights" for a certain sport :o
Howard
Title: Re: Advice for Lee Priest
Post by: mrsirjojo on September 26, 2006, 01:33:38 PM
mrsirjojo,
>I do understand the difference between "its" a "it's"... but when you write a couple of pages in an effort to entertain your fellow GetBiggers mistakes can be made
>the IQ line is a joke... the highest I've ever scored on an IQ test is the 130-135 range (I've also tested as low as 120 for what it's worth)
>I didn't use a thesaurus

Get a sense of humour dude... it'll make life a lot easier for you.

The Luke

I do have a sense of humour. I only picked on your spelling because you mentioned the IQ thing. I'm sure I'm not the only one, though, who didn't see you beginning a long legalese-type thread with big words and the dropping of your IQ as weak. If you have an IQ even near 130, you know that is just about Mensa level, so showing up and making such a claim is going to get you called out.
Title: Re: Advice for Lee Priest: Discussion of suspension
Post by: Tre on September 26, 2006, 01:35:39 PM

"Free Lee."
Title: Re: Advice for Lee Priest
Post by: CQ on September 26, 2006, 01:39:59 PM
I do have a sense of humour. I only picked on your spelling because you mentioned the IQ thing. I'm sure I'm not the only one, though, who didn't see you beginning a long legalese-type thread with big words and the dropping of your IQ as weak. If you have an IQ even near 130, you know that is just about Mensa level, so showing up and making such a claim is going to get you called out.

No, I think bringing up your IQ is kinda ghey also. It would not be that bad, but when one does it more than once it definitely looks ostentatious.
Title: Re: Advice for Lee Priest: Discussion of suspension
Post by: spotter on September 28, 2006, 03:30:49 AM
Shit! They're testing rugs? Derek Anthony's career's over..
;D
Title: Re: Advice for Lee Priest: Discussion of suspension
Post by: Hedgehog on September 28, 2006, 03:40:50 AM
Shit! They're testing rugs? Derek Anthony's career's over..

(http://www.buddyciancithemusical.com/images/toupee.jpg)

YIP
Zack
Title: Re: Advice for Lee Priest: Discussion of suspension
Post by: dr.chimps on September 28, 2006, 03:42:51 AM
As Lee has already made it quite clear that he was there and competed by letting us all know that he had received his money for doing so, all your legal wrangling is moot. I think there are many avenues to to pursue this 'suspension' but disputing his presence at said is event is not one of them -ie. better to get some of the IFBB's accounting or labour practices allowed into some 'discovery' and watch them run for the hills.  :) 
Title: Re: Advice for Lee Priest: Discussion of suspension
Post by: gtbro1 on September 28, 2006, 03:44:11 AM
  Well even if all that shit worked....It is quite easy to prove he competed and won...THEY WIRED 20,000 DOLLARS TO HIS BANK ACCOUNT !!
Title: Re: Advice for Lee Priest: Discussion of suspension
Post by: dr.chimps on September 28, 2006, 04:47:20 AM
  Well even if all that shit worked....It is quite easy to prove he competed and won...THEY WIRED 20,000 DOLLARS TO HIS BANK ACCOUNT !!
My frickin' point exactly. Perry Mason spent so much time on paper chasing, he forgot the backdoor was wide open.  :D
Title: Re: Advice for Lee Priest: Discussion of suspension
Post by: HowieW on September 28, 2006, 09:29:28 AM
(http://www.buddyciancithemusical.com/images/toupee.jpg)

YIP
Zack

THAT is funny as hell.I guess the "test" would be a pull test where Ben Wieder or some other IFBB official would stand back stage and pull on the guys locks to see what came off the head  :o.

I would LOVE to see Lee be able to compete in the Olympia, but can understand why the IFBB would want to stir clear of PDI pros. Running a pro bodybuilding show requires a major investment in terms of $$$, time and reputation. The business conerns of any pro sporting event can often take a higher priority than the pure competition . That is why I have only a casual interest at best in pro team sports and enjoy the top NPC shows better than the pro events overall. ( I enjoy seeing pro bodybuilders, just don't care for the pro show format or atmosphere).

Title: Re: Advice for Lee Priest: Discussion of suspension
Post by: spotter on October 04, 2006, 05:51:53 PM
THAT is funny as hell.I guess the "test" would be a pull test where Ben Wieder or some other IFBB official would stand back stage and pull on the guys locks to see what came off the head  :o.

I would LOVE to see Lee be able to compete in the Olympia, but can understand why the IFBB would want to stir clear of PDI pros. Running a pro bodybuilding show requires a major investment in terms of $$$, time and reputation. The business conerns of any pro sporting event can often take a higher priority than the pure competition . That is why I have only a casual interest at best in pro team sports and enjoy the top NPC shows better than the pro events overall. ( I enjoy seeing pro bodybuilders, just don't care for the pro show format or atmosphere).


???