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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Hulkster on October 09, 2006, 04:49:28 PM



Title: Slayer, please read
Post by: Hulkster on October 09, 2006, 04:49:28 PM
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=100775.0;attach=109013;image)
Jay's back getting crushed again, by Ronnie, who seems to be able to spread his lats again.

 :P

ps Ronnie's glutes and hams are once again better too :P


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: body88 on October 09, 2006, 05:04:24 PM
To bad it wasn't like that when it counted. Other way around actually. Man o man look at how watery Ronnie is in the second picture. Cannot even see Ronnie's tear drop in his quad :-[ Cutler looks to have stirations all through his quads and even in his abs.Oh well theres always next year!


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: pobrecito on October 09, 2006, 05:06:24 PM
Ronnie is smoking cutler in that front lat. He is drier, and has far superior shape.


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: slayer on October 09, 2006, 05:07:10 PM
i was gonna lay off but after just seeing the pics of the futch on flex im gonna have to start the ronnie getting owned threads! wasntr even close , jay was shredded and ill post the piccs to show  you dingbats!   here we go kiddies!

after i eat my rice and london broil the owning will start!


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: body88 on October 09, 2006, 05:09:05 PM
Ronnie is smoking cutler in that front lat. He is drier, and has far superior shape.


Haha you are basically blind right?


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on October 09, 2006, 05:10:14 PM
Same contest same flaws , his back still looks like somone took an eraser to it and still torn


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: Hulkster on October 09, 2006, 05:10:35 PM
i was gonna lay off but after just seeing the pics of the futch on flex im gonna have to start the ronnie getting owned threads! wasntr even close , jay was shredded and ill post the piccs to show  you dingbats!   here we go kiddies!

after i eat my boyfriend's asshole the owning will start!

really?


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: body88 on October 09, 2006, 05:13:20 PM
Same contest same flaws , his back still looks like somone took an eraser to it and still torn

Ronnie improved alot for the last GP. I give him that much. I also think his 98 form was the greatest physique ever for bodybuilding.


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: body88 on October 09, 2006, 05:14:19 PM
body88 - Ronnie's conditioning from the back wasn't really the problem.  The main issue was size, and Jay had him trumped by a very noticeable margin.

I'm still not seeing how you can think hulkster and I aren't being objective when we are the first to point out our hero's flaws.  We aren't just blind Ronnie sperm drinkers like the rest.

Matt I told you I respected your opinion a few threads back. I was just posting a retort! I was speaking of his condition from the front in my original post. I noticed how little detail he has in his quads compared to Jay. You guys can be objective. There are times that you guys are very biased. it is all good tho man. You guys present good arguments.


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: slayer on October 09, 2006, 05:21:07 PM
owned


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: thisiskeith12 on October 09, 2006, 05:22:32 PM
You don't have to have veins popping out to be conditioned.

Striations > Veins


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: slayer on October 09, 2006, 05:23:05 PM
someones legs are shredded and feathered here and 1 guess its not the FORMER  mr "o"


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: slayer on October 09, 2006, 05:26:58 PM
ronnie would look good her but his left arm looks like it belongs on another bodybuilder, its 3 inches smaller then his right at least! id have thought it was shopped if i didnt get it from flex online!


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on October 09, 2006, 05:29:35 PM
someones legs are shredded and feathered here and 1 guess its not the FORMER  mr "o"

Peep this


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: pobrecito on October 09, 2006, 05:33:04 PM
someones legs are shredded and feathered here and 1 guess its not the FORMER  mr "o"

Cutler's waist is over 40" there. Fucking pathetic. Jay set no new standards as a Mr. Olympia, only for waist circumference and softness. Back in the 90s, he would be a third tier pro. Jay beat a horrible field (just watch the 98O and the quality of the competitors will blow you away) and a 43 year old Ronnie. Wow. Let's see where Jay is at 43.


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: body88 on October 09, 2006, 05:36:16 PM
Cutler's waist is over 40" there. Fucking pathetic. Jay set no new standards as a Mr. Olympia, only for waist circumference and softness. Back in the 90s, he would be a third tier pro. Jay beat a horrible field (just watch the 98O and the quality of the competitors will blow you away) and a 43 year old Ronnie. Wow. Let's see where Jay is at 43.

40 inches huh!!!!!!  Does that make his back like a million inches!!!!????


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on October 09, 2006, 05:36:27 PM
Cutler's waist is over 40" there. Fucking pathetic. Jay set no new standards as a Mr. Olympia, only for waist circumference and softness. Back in the 90s, he would be a third tier pro. Jay beat a horrible field (just watch the 98O and the quality of the competitors will blow you away) and a 43 year old Ronnie. Wow. Let's see where Jay is at 43.

Winning the Mr Olympia doesn't mean you have to set a new standard it means being better than the guys you're competing with , Ronnie set NO new standard in 1998 but he deserved to win none the less ,I don't like his phsyique I don't think its what a Mr Olympia should look like but he deserved to win .


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on October 09, 2006, 05:37:53 PM
Gaspari was harder at 18 than Jay will ever be.  That is just genetic though.  If Jay had Gaspari's hardness I wouldn't have any qualms with him winning everything he entered.

Gaspari was also 65 pounds lighter ! its easier to be hard at lowbodyweights its a extreme choir to do at over 250lbs.


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: body88 on October 09, 2006, 05:38:15 PM
Gaspari was harder at 18 than Jay will ever be.  That is just genetic though.  If Jay had Gaspari's hardness I wouldn't have any qualms with him winning everything he entered.

Was Ronnie as hard as Gaspari his last 3 O wins?


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: body88 on October 09, 2006, 05:39:01 PM
Gaspari was also 65 pounds lighter ! its easier to be hard at lowbodyweights its a extreme choir to do at over 250lbs.

Exactly. These guys say Jay has no detail then post a pic of samir at 180 pounds. Jay only has 100 lbs more muscle. No big deal.


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: pobrecito on October 09, 2006, 05:39:10 PM
Winning the Mr Olympia doesn't mean you have to set a new standard it means being better than the guys you're competing with , Ronnie set NO new standard in 1998 but he deserved to win none the less ,I don't like his phsyique I don't think its what a Mr Olympia should look like but he deserved to win .

I disagree greatly. The Mr. O is all about setting new standards. Haney did it, then Yates, and yes Ronnie did set a new standard in 98 for back development and overall quality. Coleman was amazing in 98. The same cannot be said about Jay. Nobody is going to look back 10 years from now like we do with dorian in 93 and say "wow, Cutler was amazing and set a new standard"


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: pobrecito on October 09, 2006, 05:45:40 PM
You are smoking some good crack if you think Jay was 280 at the olympia. Last year he was barely 264. He may have been 270, but even that I believe is exaggerated.


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on October 09, 2006, 05:47:06 PM
I disagree greatly. The Mr. O is all about setting new standards. Haney did it, then Yates, and yes Ronnie did set a new standard in 98 for back development and overall quality. Coleman was amazing in 98. The same cannot be said about Jay. Nobody is going to look back 10 years from now like we do with dorian in 93 and say "wow, Cutler was amazing and set a new standard"


Ronnie set no new standard for back development in 1998 , lmfao what new muscle development did he have in his back that Yates didn't 5 years earlier? Ronnie set a personal standard in 1998 for development and his overall quality but he was a very lucky bodybuilder in 1998  , lucky that Flex was off and lucky the  judges didn't pick Flex in name alone , 1998 he had laughable gyno thats a standard that should keep ANYONE from being awarded the Mr Olympia title

10 years from now Jay will always be remembered for stopping Coleman dead in his tracks , beating Ronnie in the most important Mr Olympia contest in the history of the sport , his physique won't be remembered as one of the greatest ever but his feat will always be remembered .


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on October 09, 2006, 05:47:47 PM
You are smoking some good crack if you think Jay was 280 at the olympia. Last year he was barely 264. He may have been 270, but even that I believe is exaggerated.

I believe Flex said he was 274lbs


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: body88 on October 09, 2006, 05:57:01 PM
My point is that Jay would never be as hard as Gaspari.  Not at 280, not at 220, and not at 180 for that matter.  Never.  As I said, it's genetic.  Gaspari would have been hard at any body weight.  In 1987 he was 220 pounds and as hard as he was in 1988 at 210.  He was the same height as Jay who competed at 280, so that is 60 pounds of muscle, but the point is, Jay could never in his life be that hard.

No, but it's not impossible to argue that in 2003 he was very close - at least from the front.



http://www.spam.com/mrolympiareport2003.html

http://www.flexonline.com/news/17

No diss on Jay, but he will never be at this level.


He is pretty damn ripped there. Have to admit it.


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: suckmymuscle on October 09, 2006, 05:59:30 PM
 Ronnie did set a new standard in 98 for back development and overall quality.

  An absurd staement. How could have he set a new standard for back development if Dorian had, five years before that, thicker and wider lats and was pounds heavier? You can argue that Ronnie combined mass with qualiy, and that would be ony your opinion. He certainy did have crisp details on his back, maybe a little more than Dorian, but Yates' lats, tees maor and minorand infra-spinatus were definitely wider, thicker and harder. The fact is that Ronnie set no new standard in 1998, either for muscularity, proportions or conditioning. ;)

SUCKMYMUSCLE


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: body88 on October 09, 2006, 06:05:07 PM
His back was doughy, but everything else on him was pretty shredded.  In the rear lat spread, his lack of conditioning wasn't really showing, so his only real pose which showed the relative lack of conditioning was the back double biceps.  Peter McGough said Jay was flat that year but I'm not so sure I agree with that.  He was just outsized by Ronnie by too large a margin to compare favourably with him.

I do not think Jay was close in years past. I think he had him beat in 2001. I also think he had him beat this year. Ronnie's only drawback (aside from 05) was his massive gut.


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: body88 on October 09, 2006, 06:19:47 PM
Jay and Ronnie compared well size wise in 2005.  Before that Ronnie always had him beat, but finally in 2005 Jay closed in on things.  In 2006 Jay outsized Ronnie from the back and won.  I'm not sure how much more muscle Jay has room for on his frame though.

Not much. He needs to focus on detail. I would stay the same and refine if I was him.


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: Hulkster on October 09, 2006, 06:37:00 PM
Quote
You can argue that Ronnie combined mass with qualiy, and that would be ony your opinion.

no, that would be the truth as 99.9999% of the world sees it.

If you were to all of sudden argue that 2+2 =5, you could convince yourself that it was true.

and you could say that it is only the "opinion" of everyone else that it is actually 4.

But that does not mean you would be right:

(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=69359.0;attach=77944;image)
(http://body.builder.hu/imagebank/pictures/974182578.jpg)
dorian's back never ever looked this good - in the opinion of almost everyone except you and ND. Think about that for a minute.


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: Hulkster on October 09, 2006, 06:42:17 PM
Quote
lmfao what new muscle development did he have in his back that Yates didn't 5 years earlier?

umm..Yates had far LESS detail than Ronnie did in his upper back..5 years earlier.


(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=62665.0;attach=72379;image)(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=69359.0;attach=77944;image)
dorian cannot claim a better back double bi than Ronnie - again in the opinion of almost everyone except the outsiders - you and sucky.


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: Hulkster on October 09, 2006, 07:06:37 PM
Dorian had a great back but the best of all time, all things considered, would have to go to Ronnie.  I would think that even the Dorian semen taste testers on here would be able to acknowledge that.

are you kidding me? there is one well known Yates semen taste tester who has argued that dorian had better ARMS than ronnie for god's sake!!

no way would they accept that ronnie had a better back.

doesn't mean that we all don't think they are crazy, though 8)


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: adamthetrain on October 09, 2006, 07:41:23 PM
ronnie would look good her but his left arm looks like it belongs on another bodybuilder, its 3 inches smaller then his right at least! id have thought it was shopped if i didnt get it from flex online!
Yeah your'e right Jay's right arm and right leg are smaller than his lefts!  good job.  You need to whipe the shit off your glasses.  Ronnie is whoopin' that trick in those pics!


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: adamthetrain on October 09, 2006, 07:58:55 PM
LOL...reminds me of the man in the straight jacket trying to convince the rest of the world that he is in fact the only person who is sane.

Hi Ronnie.
That's Mr. Coleman, 8xMr.Olympia to a guy like you!


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: Palpatine Q on October 09, 2006, 08:14:27 PM
Show me a pic of a BBer FROM A CONTEST that looks as good as this.

    (http://body.builder.hu/imagebank/pictures/974182578.jpg)


Best combination of size and detail EVER.


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: pobrecito on October 09, 2006, 08:20:36 PM
 An absurd staement. How could have he set a new standard for back development if Dorian had, five years before that, thicker and wider lats and was pounds heavier? You can argue that Ronnie combined mass with qualiy, and that would be ony your opinion. He certainy did have crisp details on his back, maybe a little more than Dorian, but Yates' lats, tees maor and minorand infra-spinatus were definitely wider, thicker and harder. The fact is that Ronnie set no new standard in 1998, either for muscularity, proportions or conditioning. ;)

SUCKMYMUSCLE

I have reviewed the 93 and 98 olympias extensively, and I believe Ronnie had more back detail than Dorian, although Dorian was drier. From the rear, Ronnie's overall package looked better. From the front, Ronnie's gyno was horrid. And I will agree with ND, after watching the 98O, I was extremely surprised they didn't go with name Flex on name alone. Contrary to common belief, Flex was not that far "off".


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: pobrecito on October 09, 2006, 08:22:27 PM
Along with Dorian's front double bi black and white 93 @ 269, this is the greatest BB shot of all time.

(http://body.builder.hu/imagebank/pictures/974182578.jpg)


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: Palpatine Q on October 09, 2006, 08:51:58 PM
Along with Dorian's front double bi black and white 93 @ 269, this is the greatest BB shot of all time.

(http://body.builder.hu/imagebank/pictures/974182578.jpg)

I agree 100%, but the thing is this shot was taken ONSTAGE. It's there for all to see and you have to give the man credit.

Now that Ron has seen better days people are piling on the Cutler bandwagon, but Jay will never come close to this.


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: Hulkster on October 09, 2006, 09:23:54 PM
(http://digilander.libero.it/mikementzer/Yates06.jpg)
I think this is the most impressive photo out of the famous set.

the front double bi is okay - problem is, it is really showcasing one of dorian's worst bodyparts.

as big as he was in those shots

(http://digilander.libero.it/mrolympia2/dy12.jpg)
his bis were flat and unshapely.

and I agree that

(http://body.builder.hu/imagebank/pictures/974182578.jpg)
this shot is one of the greatest single on stage shots of anyone ever taken. It ranks right up there with the famous twisting, kneeling rear double bi of Flex from the 93 AC.


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: BigMeatball on October 09, 2006, 09:27:02 PM
Jay is a great bodybuilder. But, he only won because Ronnie looked bad. That's NOT an accomplishment. He should thank Ronnie. A great Cutler could never beat a great Coleman.  As far as backs. Ronnie has the greatest back of all time. Dorian had a huge back, but Shawn Ray had the best quality back on that pic. Ronnie combined Shawn Ray's conditioning and Dorian's size.


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: Hulkster on October 09, 2006, 09:30:11 PM
Quote
Jay is a great bodybuilder. But, he only won because Ronnie looked bad. That's NOT an accomplishment. He should thank Ronnie. A great Cutler could never beat a great Coleman.  As far as backs. Ronnie has the greatest back of all time.
agreed.


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: nicorulez on October 09, 2006, 09:56:16 PM

Ronnie set no new standard for back development in 1998 , lmfao what new muscle development did he have in his back that Yates didn't 5 years earlier? Ronnie set a personal standard in 1998 for development and his overall quality but he was a very lucky bodybuilder in 1998  , lucky that Flex was off and lucky the  judges didn't pick Flex in name alone , 1998 he had laughable gyno thats a standard that should keep ANYONE from being awarded the Mr Olympia title

10 years from now Jay will always be remembered for stopping Coleman dead in his tracks , beating Ronnie in the most important Mr Olympia contest in the history of the sport , his physique won't be remembered as one of the greatest ever but his feat will always be remembered .

ND, you are completely wrong.  Anyone who saw the show knows that Cutler did no such thing.  Ronnie is the sole reason he lost the Mr. Olympia.  He came in off.  It is that simple.  Looking at the pics, I completely change my prior opinion.  He has not in any way ripped his lats.  He is still able to flex it to a degree.  Instead, I believe he has severe arthritis in his left rotator cuff that has severely hampered his ability to train that side of his body effectively.  Proof, look at the most recent GP event.  He was actually spreading his back in some poses.  I bet he got a cortisone shot or IM toradol.  Regardless, I feel that Coleman likely has a serious shoulder injury.  That would make training his arms, shoulders and back very difficult.  If it hurts to move the joint, you cannot work any of the muscles that attach at that site.  If you look at the Mr. Olympia pics, it is obvious that Coleman is smaller than usual.  His legs and chest were huge (along with the GH gut), but his back was severely lacking, as were his shoulders and triceps on the left side. 

Thus, Cutler did not beat an on Coleman.  He beat a shadow of his former self.  It is like beating a champion long after his prime is done.  Even you must admit the startling difference between Coleman 2005 and 2006.  If Coleman were even 90% of his 2005 condition, he would have won quite easily.  Jay looked like shit.  His waist was wide, his arms average and he has no chest.  His legs are awesome, and his back is wide and thick (however, no detail whatsoever).  If you like this physique, it explains your infatuation with a subpar Yates in any year but 1992/1993 or 1995.  Peace all.


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: Mr. Intenseone on October 09, 2006, 10:07:03 PM
Show me a pic of a BBer FROM A CONTEST that looks as good as this.

    (http://body.builder.hu/imagebank/pictures/974182578.jpg)


Best combination of size and detail EVER.

I'm no Ronnie fan, but that back shot is the craziest and best I have EVER seen...........to bad he had to ruin his physique, he now has one worst physiques symmetry wise I have seen!


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: MattT on October 09, 2006, 11:12:04 PM
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=100775.0;attach=109013;image)
Jay's back getting crushed again, by Ronnie, who seems to be able to spread his lats again.

 :P

ps Ronnie's glutes and hams are once again better too :P


Are you fuckin serious! Ronnie looked that good and still lost? WTF is that >:(  This just goes to show how good Ron is, and when he needs to get the job done and change his body around he can do it!  I look forward to seeing what King Ron looks like next year! Maybe Ron needed a kick in the ass like this after winning 8 Mr O in a row like this, it was just to easy for him. Now he has a new challenge in front of him..


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: slayer on October 10, 2006, 05:49:04 AM
Jay is a great bodybuilder. But, he only won because Ronnie looked bad. That's NOT an accomplishment. He should thank Ronnie. A great Cutler could never beat a great Coleman.  As far as backs. Ronnie has the greatest back of all time. Dorian had a huge back, but Shawn Ray had the best quality back on that pic. Ronnie combined Shawn Ray's conditioning and Dorian's size.
no shame in that, minus ronnie, jays 5 time mr "o" so basically take one of the greats alltime in colemen out of this equation and bingo ,jays on his way to haney's record!

 lets also factor in ronnie didnt become ronnie till he was 33, jays current age, who knows where jay takes his physique ... he has the potential to go down in history with the greatenst wheels  and calves in history if he keeps building on them.... thats where his genetics are superior!

thats my prediction, 4 yrs from now jay presents the best lower body ever seen on a olympia stage and that will be his legacy!


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: Palpatine Q on October 10, 2006, 05:54:03 AM
no shame in that, minus ronnie, jays 5 time mr "o" so basically take one of the greats alltime in colemen out of this equation and bingo ,jays on his way to haney's record!

 lets also factor in ronnie didnt become ronnie till he was 33, jays current age, who knows where jay takes his physique ... he has the potential to go down in history with the greatenst wheels  and calves in history if he keeps building on them.... thats where his genetics are superior!

thats my prediction, 4 yrs from now jay presents the best lower body ever seen on a olympia stage and that will be his legacy!

Slayer when you post this RAh-Rah shit you lose all credibilty.

The fact is Jay is already on the downside. He has significant atrophy in his right arm and leg and he is blockier than ever. This is not opinion it is fact.


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: sculpture on October 10, 2006, 06:44:07 AM
ND, you are completely wrong.  Anyone who saw the show knows that Cutler did no such thing.  Ronnie is the sole reason he lost the Mr. Olympia.  He came in off.  It is that simple.  Looking at the pics, I completely change my prior opinion.  He has not in any way ripped his lats.  He is still able to flex it to a degree.  Instead, I believe he has severe arthritis in his left rotator cuff that has severely hampered his ability to train that side of his body effectively.  Proof, look at the most recent GP event.  He was actually spreading his back in some poses.  I bet he got a cortisone shot or IM toradol.  Regardless, I feel that Coleman likely has a serious shoulder injury.  That would make training his arms, shoulders and back very difficult.  If it hurts to move the joint, you cannot work any of the muscles that attach at that site.  If you look at the Mr. Olympia pics, it is obvious that Coleman is smaller than usual.  His legs and chest were huge (along with the GH gut), but his back was severely lacking, as were his shoulders and triceps on the left side. 

Thus, Cutler did not beat an on Coleman.  He beat a shadow of his former self.  It is like beating a champion long after his prime is done.  Even you must admit the startling difference between Coleman 2005 and 2006.  If Coleman were even 90% of his 2005 condition, he would have won quite easily.  Jay looked like shit.  His waist was wide, his arms average and he has no chest.  His legs are awesome, and his back is wide and thick (however, no detail whatsoever).  If you like this physique, it explains your infatuation with a subpar Yates in any year but 1992/1993 or 1995.  Peace all.

This is a great post.

ND - you are wrong so quit dropping the line "jay cutler will be forever remembered as the man that stopped coleman in his tracks".

What utter garbage and purely wishful thinkin on your behalf.

Do you really think jay won the title "unassisted"?

The last 2 weeks have been arguably the saddest in bodybuilding judging history.

Jay has won four events yet hasn't looked the best man at any of them.

Tragic.


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: natural al on October 10, 2006, 07:01:35 AM
Gaspari was harder at 18 than Jay will ever be.  That is just genetic though.  If Jay had Gaspari's hardness I wouldn't have any qualms with him winning everything he entered.

alot of that has to do with the gh and shit they take these days, gaspari was all roids, GH hadn't-as far as I know-been perfected when Rich was at his best.  I could be wrong but that's what I always believed.


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: IceCold on October 10, 2006, 11:51:52 AM
i think that ronnie may have the edge in the back double bi over dorian, but dorian takes the lat spread (i know this isnt a lat spread but it highlights why dorian was so great - mass and conditioning.  a combo that has never been duplicated).

(http://digilander.libero.it/mikementzer/Yates02.jpg)


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: IceCold on October 10, 2006, 12:56:18 PM
This is a great post.

ND - you are wrong so quit dropping the line "jay cutler will be forever remembered as the man that stopped coleman in his tracks".

What utter garbage and purely wishful thinkin on your behalf.

Do you really think jay won the title "unassisted"?

The last 2 weeks have been arguably the saddest in bodybuilding judging history.

Jay has won four events yet hasn't looked the best man at any of them.

Tragic.


how has it been sad?

jay won easily. 

ronnie aint wining with 1 arm and 1 lat and no legs anymore.  his legs are big but lost every cut he ever had.  jay is fuller and dryer. 

regardless of what jay does in the future, if he places dead last in every show or wins 10 Olympias, he will be known as the guy who beat ronnie coleman while he was going for a record breaking 9th Olympia.

up til now, he was known as the guy who should have won the 2001 Mr. Olympia.  now, that's changed. 

now's he's mr. olympia who beat the defending champ.  that's a fact regardless of what you think of cutler's physique.


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: IceCold on October 10, 2006, 01:00:26 PM
This is a great post.

ND - you are wrong so quit dropping the line "jay cutler will be forever remembered as the man that stopped coleman in his tracks".

What utter garbage and purely wishful thinkin on your behalf.

Do you really think jay won the title "unassisted"?

The last 2 weeks have been arguably the saddest in bodybuilding judging history.

Jay has won four events yet hasn't looked the best man at any of them.

Tragic.


yeah, sad what happened to coleman.

jay won easily. 

ronnie aint wining with 1 arm and 1 lat and no legs anymore.  his legs are big but lost every cut he ever had.  jay is fuller and dryer. 

regardless of what jay does in the future, if he places dead last in every show or wins 10 Olympias, he will be known as the guy who beat ronnie coleman while he was going for a record breaking 9th Olympia.

up til now, he was known as the guy who should have won the 2001 Mr. Olympia.  now, that's changed. 

now's he's mr. olympia who beat the defending champ.  that's a fact regardless of what you think of cutler's physique.


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on October 10, 2006, 02:04:49 PM
ND, you are completely wrong.  Anyone who saw the show knows that Cutler did no such thing.  Ronnie is the sole reason he lost the Mr. Olympia.  He came in off.  It is that simple.  Looking at the pics, I completely change my prior opinion.  He has not in any way ripped his lats.  He is still able to flex it to a degree.  Instead, I believe he has severe arthritis in his left rotator cuff that has severely hampered his ability to train that side of his body effectively.  Proof, look at the most recent GP event.  He was actually spreading his back in some poses.  I bet he got a cortisone shot or IM toradol.  Regardless, I feel that Coleman likely has a serious shoulder injury.  That would make training his arms, shoulders and back very difficult.  If it hurts to move the joint, you cannot work any of the muscles that attach at that site.  If you look at the Mr. Olympia pics, it is obvious that Coleman is smaller than usual.  His legs and chest were huge (along with the GH gut), but his back was severely lacking, as were his shoulders and triceps on the left side. 

Thus, Cutler did not beat an on Coleman.  He beat a shadow of his former self.  It is like beating a champion long after his prime is done.  Even you must admit the startling difference between Coleman 2005 and 2006.  If Coleman were even 90% of his 2005 condition, he would have won quite easily.  Jay looked like shit.  His waist was wide, his arms average and he has no chest.  His legs are awesome, and his back is wide and thick (however, no detail whatsoever).  If you like this physique, it explains your infatuation with a subpar Yates in any year but 1992/1993 or 1995.  Peace all.

We're dealing in facts here and not fantasy Jay Cutler beat Ronnie Coleman at the 2006 Mr Olympia fair & square anyone who thinks otherwise is delsuional

Did Jay beat Ronnie at his all-time best? NO could Jay beat Ronnie at his all-time best ? NO but we're NOT dealing in the past we're dealing in the present and Ronnie Coleman didn't show up anywhere near his best and thats in all probability his own fault . he specifically said before the contest he wasn't injured and post contest his camp again claimed NO injuries , how a man with 14 years of professional bodybuilding competition experience blows the most important contest of his career is beyond me

Jay can only beat the Ronnie who shows up and the one who showed up was way off and he paid the price for it , Jay still had to be good enough to beat that version of Ronnie and he was , clearly better . Jay Cutler will always be remembered as the guy who stopped Ronnie Coleman dead in his tracks and you can add in the fact that Ronnie Coleman helped him which makes it worse ON Ronnie , if Jay came in small & flat Ronnie would have squeeked another close call victory but Jay did his part by comming in improved from 2005 and simply accumulated more of the mandatory poses and seperated himself from Coleman as the better of the two

Jay was huge.. pound-for-pound just as big as Ronnie and much better conditioned , he had fewer weaknesses and had total control over his gut at all times , Ronnie was huge and soft , carrying excess water , his pecs , delts and arms were all HUGE but so was his gut and his quads which like his delts were devoid of detail and crispness his back one-time among the best was apparently torn on one side and lacked depth and detail , much like his triceps , Ronnie was a mess and paid the price for it

I personaly don't like Coleman's physique and I don't like Cutlers , I don't think he is Mr Olympia material but based on the criteria they've been using for years the judged picked the right guy , the funny part is if Ronnie did win every Coleman fan wouldn't be claiming that Ronnie is past-his-prime , a shell of his former self , ect they would all be patting themselves on the back and saying how he was still good enough to win , hell some are doing that now lol but again

Either way Jason Cutler beat Ronnie Coleman and stopped him from beating Lee Haney's record , he made history ( with help from Coleman ) and no one can ever take that from him even though some are trying already .



Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: Hulkster on October 10, 2006, 02:33:13 PM
Quote
Thus, Cutler did not beat an on Coleman.  He beat a shadow of his former self.  It is like beating a champion long after his prime is done.  Even you must admit the startling difference between Coleman 2005 and 2006.  If Coleman were even 90% of his 2005 condition, he would have won quite easily.  Jay looked like shit.  His waist was wide, his arms average and he has no chest.  His legs are awesome, and his back is wide and thick (however, no detail whatsoever).  If you like this physique, it explains your infatuation with a subpar Yates in any year but 1992/1993 or 1995.  Peace all.

truer words have rarely been spoken.


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: Dorian 01 on October 10, 2006, 03:38:14 PM
Cutler admitted on Chick's radio show that he knows he beat an off Coleman.


Title: Re: Slayer, please read
Post by: suckmymuscle on October 10, 2006, 09:18:07 PM
no, that would be the truth as 99.9999% of the world sees it.

If you were to all of sudden argue that 2+2 =5, you could convince yourself that it was true.

and you could say that it is only the "opinion" of everyone else that it is actually 4.

But that does not mean you would be right:

  Too bad that muscularity&symmetry are the criterias which bodybuilding contests are judged by, and "shape", as I said in the truce thread, is evaluated together with symmetry, but it is not something that the judges have to consider. A specific judge might decide that a bodybuilder has better shape and reward him for that, or he may not. Dorian didn't have a problem defeating guys who, in your opinion, have better shape. like Wheeler, Kevin and Coleman(smaller waists, rounder muscles, more striations, etc). So, this proves that by no means would Coleman defeat Dorian because he combines size with shape. Dorian did compete against Coleman and Levrone, both of whom had smaller and rounder muscles than Dorian at over 250 lbs, so your argument is weak.

  Dorian defeated guys who outweighed him by 30 lbs, like Fux and Nasser, and he defeated guys who had, according to your criteria, vastly superior shape(Wheeler, Ray, etc). Don't try to argue that Coleman defeating Dorian because he was 250 lbs with a small waist is a certain thing, because even Nasser, at 285 lbs, had a smaller waist than Dorian and Diesel defeated him with straight-firsts scores. Yes, I know that Nasser has a completely different aesthetics than Ronnie, but the point is that no combination seemed to work at defeating Dorian: out-muscling him didn't work(Nasser, 1996 Olympia); coming in with better proportions didn't work(Shawn, 1994 Olympia). Coming in big&full with superb taper didn't work(Levrone, 1995 Olympia). So, you may or may not be right that a 257 lbs Ronnie with a smaller waist than Dorian would be able to defeat him, but comparisons clearly showed that nothing worked to defeat Dorian Yates.

   We will never know what would happen if the Dorian from the 1993/5 Olympia went against the Ronnie who showed up for the 1999 rendition of the contest; we do know, however, that Dorian would be the most muscular man onstage and, with the exception of his waist, he would have the better proportions. Oh, and also the better conditioning. All things considered, odds are that Dorian would win.


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dorian's back never ever looked this good - in the opinion of almost everyone except you and ND. Think about that for a minute.

  In 1993, Dorian's latissumus, teres major, teres minor and infra-spinatus were the thickest and widest ever seen on a bodybuilding stage. So much so that he would only be surpassed a full decade latter, by Ronnie himself.

  Going against the 1999 Ronnie, the 1993 or 1995 Dorian would definitely have the best back when it comes to muscularity. Symmetry is debatable, but Dorian had superb proportions between all his back muscles. Dorian's lower back was more striated and his upper back had comparable separations. The only thing Ronnie would have on him, I think, would be cross-striations. But then, this is largely irrelevant, taking a back seat to width and thickness. ;)

SUCKMYMUSCLE