Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Gym/Stores/Industry Business Board => Topic started by: 24KT on December 04, 2006, 12:14:24 AM
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First, what's a pyramid scheme? Why do people "run for the hills" at the first indication of a pyramid scheme? If you really knew exactly what a pyramid scheme was, would it be easier to actually recognize a pyramid scheme, and not mistake a legitimate business for a pyramid scheme? ...or worse, not mistake a pyramid scheme for a legitimate business?
To answer this so you really understand it, I need to take you back to the origin of the pyramid scheme. No, it didn't start at the pyramids of Egypt in 2650 BC but it's a very interesting story. The first famous pyramid scheme where money was the focus occurred in the early eighteenth century in France. What you're about to read goes down as one of the greatest deceptions of all times.
Near the end of King Louis' XIV reign (1643 to 1715) the economy of France was on a steep decline. The country was 3 billion livres (the currency at the time) in debt. There was a debate whether the government should just declare bankruptcy and start from scratch, but the politicians of the time feared revolution and looked instead for a more expedient solution.
Their first attempt to remedy the problem was to devalue the currency through recoinage (making new coins). New coins were issued weighing 20% less than the old coin, but with the same face value, and the public was ordered by law to make the exchange. So, if the government "shaved off" 20% of every coin they could create enough gold to pay off their national debt.
But the people of France weren't that dumb. They didn't want to hand their full valued coin to the government and be handed back one that weighed less, therefore worth less. This greatly discredited the government of France and threw the economy into greater economic depression.
After King Louis' XIV death, the Regent (temporary ruler) and a Scotsman friend named John Law came up with a new idea to pay off the national debt. John Law, whose father was a banker, understood money and how banks worked. Together they devised a masterful plan (scheme) whereby they could pay off the national debt.
First, the Regent (temporary ruler) of France authorized John Law to establish a central bank, under the name of Law and Company. (A central bank is a nation's principal monetary authority. In the USA it's called Federal Reserve Bank. In the UK it's called the Bank of England.)
Second, the Regent authorized Law's bank to issue bank notes (paper money) INSTEAD of real gold and silver coins and put into law that the paper money would be accepted for the payment of taxes. This would in effect give the bank and it's "paper money" credibility.
Third, John Law knew that he had to establish public confidence in this bank's notes (paper money) for the entire scheme to work. He immediately announced that all notes from his bank were payable in coin. Meaning, if anyone received his paper money, they could walk into the Law and Company bank and exchange it for real gold or silver coins. This gave the appearance that the paper money was the same value of the gold coin! This was perhaps the greatest deception of the 18th century.
Because of the discomfort of carrying coins around in their pocket, people preferred to carry the paper currency. Therefore, the public would deposit their gold and silver into the bank in exchange for a piece of paper. Just as today - people put their coins in a jar because the coins are too heavy to carry around. Once the jar gets full, they take it to the bank (or grocery store) and cash it in for paper money.
The entire scheme required people to believe in the credibility of Law's bank and his ability to redeem his notes in coins. Once that belief was established, the paper money was literally "as good as gold."
As more and more people cashed in their gold in exchange for paper, the banks vault filled with gold.
Now I need to explain how banking began in order to complete this explanation.
In the early days, there was no such thing as credit. If you wanted to buy something, you carried the coins (gold and silver) to the store and paid in coin. A person didn't want to have their coins in their home or on their person when traveling for fear of being robbed. So they would keep their coins in a bank's vault. As more and more people put their coins in banks, the banks vault would fill up.
Banks recognized that at no time did EVERYONE pull ALL their gold out of the bank [at the same time]. So the banks started "loaning" out someone else's gold for short periods of time. This was the birth of "credit & loans."
John Law learned of "credit & loans" working in his father's bank. Now, for the first time we have "credit" as a financial tool.
This is where the pyramid formation begins to take place. Because of my divergence into banking and credit, let me recap to ensure you're still following all of this...
We have the country of France wanting to pay its debt by simply "changing the weight of the coins." We have a gentleman with banking experience who knew that if they filled the vaults with gold then they could make loans to the public because the probability of everyone asking the bank for their gold at the same time was really low. He established a central bank that was supported by the government and which allowed people to pay their taxes with this bank's paper money.
The scheme worked... for a while. The Law and Company's bank received enormous sums of gold to put in their vault. Now, with all that gold in their vault they could loan some of it out... but they would loan it out with paper money instead of actual coins. This was the magician's act. The real product (gold and silver) vanished and the fake product "paper money" was now in the spot light.
--RIGHT HERE IS THE POINT THAT THIS BECAME A PYRAMID SCHEME--
The Regent made Law's bank a publicly traded company declaring it the Royal Bank of France. Now people could buy stock in the government's bank as well as receiving credit in the form of loans from the bank. Over the course of a few years, the bank issued over one billion livres in paper currency to the public.
Keep in mind that all of these paper loans and paper stock were based upon the "product" of gold and silver coins in the vaults. You see, once the magician got you to believe that the paper was as good as gold - he didn't need to show you the gold any more.
Businesses went crazy trying to get this "free" money (loans). Businesses began to grow very rapidly and they started selling their goods and services to foreign consumers as well as setting up businesses in foreign countries. Slowly but surely, the gold and silver that backed this paper money began to drain out of France and into foreign countries. People in India didn't want to receive a piece of paper from France because they couldn't cash it at their bank in India - so they required payment in real gold and silver coins.
The people of France began to suspect that with all the currency being loaned out, surely there wasn't enough gold and silver in the bank vaults to back up all the currency that had been loaned out and sold as stock. They quietly began converting paper to coins and transporting the coins to foreign banks.
By 1720 the scarcity of coin began to increase. The vaults, once filled with gold and silver were becoming empty, but the paper money was still being loaned out. In an effort to stop people from converting their paper money into gold and silver coins, the government depreciated the coin to 10% below the paper, and the bank would limit the amount of coins any one person could receive. The limit was 100 livres in gold and 10 livres in silver. So now the government was claiming that gold and silver was worth less than the paper!
In February of 1720 John Law made a fatal error. At his suggestion to the Regent, a decree was issued forbidding anyone to hold more than 500 livres in coin, and also prohibiting people from buying up precious stones, jewelry, silver settings, and so forth, under penalty of a heavy fine and confiscation of the holdings. The government was trying to stop the public from buying up the gold that the government needed to control in order to keep the bank legitimate. This enraged the public.
In May of 1720 the bank was out of gold and silver in the vaults and was forced to stop making payments in coin and the bubble burst, and the pyramid tumbled.
John Law, once a national hero became the scapegoat for the entire problem. The government of France blamed him for the whole debacle and he was nearly murdered by angry crowds.
To prevent this from happening again and elsewhere, the policy became - there has to be a "product" backing the currency.
Most countries adopted gold as the standard "product" or backing of their currency. Meaning, every bank had to have a vault of gold to back their currency.
However, today all well established currencies (US Dollar, Pound, Yen, etc.) have NO PRODUCT that backs their currency. It's all "belief." The governments can simply "create more money out of thin air" just by simply printing more.
Oops. Uh, I think I'll just leave that alone for now...
In conclusion, you now understand how the perception of pyramids began. You can also understand why people run from pyramid schemes.
But you can also see why M.L.M is not a pyramid... but could be. And as you just read, any organization - government included - could be operating as a pyramid scheme. In other words, a pyramid scheme is NOT a method of doing business such as network marketing, but the detachment from a real product that makes it a pyramid scheme.
For further info about network mtkg, consider listening to the audio Brilliant Compensation (http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/brilliant.htm)
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Are you suggesting that having a tangible "product" means MLM isn't a pyramid scheme?
Bigbootyjudy, you must be bored, LOL! You aren't that dumb and neither are we.... boredom is the only legitimate reason you could post this. :)
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Are you suggesting that having a tangible "product" means MLM isn't a pyramid scheme?
I am not only suggesting it, I am flat out stating it. A pyramid schemes are simply about shuffling money.
That's not to say that there are not pyramids that try to hide their true nature by providing a product. Crooks always try to give the appearance of legitimacy as best they can. However, if you are educated, you'll know how to spot the legitimate players from the crooks.
Network mtkg is about the distribution & sale of various products and/or services through networks of people, thereby cutting out the expenses of advertising and middle men in the supply chain, ...and the redistribution of the budgets that would otherwise go to advertising & middle men, to the very distributors themselves. It is the most effective and efficient means of getting a product to market. Not only for the manufacturer, but also for the distributors as well, and provides one with the opportunity to be paid what they're worth, rather than what a supervisor decides to allot. It also provides for lifestyles beyond that which most people have ever dreamed about.
Please listen to "Brilliant Compensation (http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/brilliant.htm)" for a better understanding.
Call a daisy a rose, and it'd still be a daisy. Many people refer to network mtkg as a pyramid scheme, but it isn't.
Just as people will refer to pyramid schemes as network mktg, in attempts to legitimize what they do, ...but it's not
Bigbootyjudy, you must be bored, LOL! You aren't that dumb and neither are we.... boredom is the only legitimate reason you could post this. :)
Bigbootyjudy? Jake tsk., tsk. FirmRoundTushyJudi perhaps, ...but never bigbooty.
Nope, not bored. Just looking to contribute content to the board which is inclusive of various business models.
There's plenty of wolves running around in sheep's clothing. The best way to identify them is proper education.
Only then can you have the right perspective to make an honest evaluation.
I know cops in Ottawa whose jobs it was to investigate fraudulent pyramid schemes. These were some of the most skeptical & suspicious minds in the country. But when they took the time to truly examine some of the entities they were investigating, they found very legitimate companies. It made them much better at their jobs too, because it helped them to spot a fraud a mile away, as well as spot a legitimate opportunity. Some have even taken advantage of the opportunities network marketing can provide.
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Judy,
You have pathological needs to feel right and get in the last word. :)
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No, a PYRAMID SCHEME is when the person at the top of the organization takes a piece of EVERY SINGLE PROFIT MADE BY EVERY SINGLE OTHER PERSON IN THE PYRAMID SCHEME. The next highest person, gets a piece of the profit from all those below him/her. The person below that person, gets a piece of the profit from everyone below him/her... Etc., etc.! Until you've got the lowly people at the bottom that are paying a huge chunk of their profits "up the pyramid!"
Judy, that was the biggest load of horsesh*t I've ever read! There's a HUGE reason why people in Amway or M.L.M. are just as interested in "recruiting" new salespeople as they are in selling products (maybe more so!)! Because you get a piece of every thing they accomplish... And should they "recruit" some new people, you'll get a piece of that action too... And so on it goes... As well, so UP it goes! Because for everything you get, a piece of it goes to your "recruiter" then to his/her "recruiter" then to his/her "recruiter" until a piece of it has gone all the way to the top of the "pyramid" (a.k.a. the guy who started the "company").
Please, try to tell me I'm wrong. But keep it to a paragraph please! You're endless bulls*t really gets on my nerves after awhile!
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Pyramid Scheme = Corporate America
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What's your annual income from your MLM network? (and stop dodging the question, you've been asked about this 1000x already)
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Not all MLM operations are pyramid schemes. But you have to be a realist on various organizations that tell you they have a superior supplement that is better than everyone elses and just rely on the MLM, and then tell you they make a ton of money on it.
I always - always - go home and research before I do anything. I have gone to about 5-8 of these meetings from various friends and aquaintances with various comapnies (supplements, telephone, calling cards, etc) and they try to pressure you. Never just jump into something, especially if there is an initial fee involved in it.
Pyramid schemes are great if you are in the beginning of a 'hot' product or service, but not when you are in the lower tiers. Too many people have found out otherwise on it, after hours and hours of work with very little to show for it later on.
And they are too embarrassed to talk about it later either.
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I recently got back into working in the MLM world with Pre-Paid Legal but I think it isn't the business that makes the schemes, its the independent reps. Some of them can be shady but that's like any business
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No, a PYRAMID SCHEME is when the person at the top of the organization takes a piece of EVERY SINGLE PROFIT MADE BY EVERY SINGLE OTHER PERSON IN THE PYRAMID SCHEME. The next highest person, gets a piece of the profit from all those below him/her. The person below that person, gets a piece of the profit from everyone below him/her... Etc., etc.! Until you've got the lowly people at the bottom that are paying a huge chunk of their profits "up the pyramid!"
Judy, that was the biggest load of horsesh*t I've ever read! There's a HUGE reason why people in Amway or M.L.M. are just as interested in "recruiting" new salespeople as they are in selling products (maybe more so!)! Because you get a piece of every thing they accomplish... And should they "recruit" some new people, you'll get a piece of that action too... And so on it goes... As well, so UP it goes! Because for everything you get, a piece of it goes to your "recruiter" then to his/her "recruiter" then to his/her "recruiter" until a piece of it has gone all the way to the top of the "pyramid" (a.k.a. the guy who started the "company").
Please, try to tell me I'm wrong. But keep it to a paragraph please! You're endless bulls*t really gets on my nerves after awhile!
You're wrong. You simply cannot apply some cookie cutter analysis based on false assumptions across the board, and assume it's applicable to everyone, when in reality your assumption is inapplicable.
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Here's some simple common sense advice on this topic:
Any business that has to spend considerable time and effort trying to explain to you why it's not a pyramid scheme almost certainly IS a pyramid scheme.
Hope this helps.
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Not all MLM operations are pyramid schemes. But you have to be a realist on various organizations that tell you they have a superior supplement that is better than everyone elses and just rely on the MLM, and then tell you they make a ton of money on it.
Ron is absolutely 100% correct here. MLMs are not pyramid schemes. Network Mtkg, which differs slightly from MLM (although the terms are often used interchangeably) are NOT pyramid schemes. That's like saying that honest banker was arrested for embezzlement. Well if he was embezzling money, he certainly wasn't honest was he?
A huge part of the problem with Network mtkg and the challenges to success that people face, is that most people jump in expecting to become rich overnight, ...without any experience, training or knowledge. Unfortunately for many, they also don't have the patience, dedication or discipline that is required to get the knowledge or the training. They are working in a career that they may have been in for the past 10 or 20 yrs, ...and despite having 10 - 20 yrs experience in their profession, they still are not making 6 figures a yr, ...yet they think they can jump into network mktg, and achieve in 6 months what they couldn't achieve in 10 yrs in a profession they have knowledge, experience and training in. Then they place the blame on network mktg, rather than on where it squarely belongs. Do you think most people could think they could jump into becoming a bomb demolition expert overnight, without any proper knowledge, or training, ...and be successful? most wouldn't even contemplate it because the risks are too great. However with network mktg, ...it's the only profession where you can literally fail forward. That's a luxury most professions do not allow. The question is, ...are you a fox or are you a rabbit?
I always - always - go home and research before I do anything. I have gone to about 5-8 of these meetings from various friends and aquaintances with various comapnies (supplements, telephone, calling cards, etc) and they try to pressure you. Never just jump into something, especially if there is an initial fee involved in it.
Those with knowledge & experience know what to look for in a company. I remember last March when many of us were first looking at the company I'm currently building in. A distributor who was with a competitor told us we were crazy for choosing our company. At first blush, and to the unitiated, it may have looked that way, but to those of us with the proper perspective, ...we KNEW we had found a winner. 3 months later, that distributor who was chiding us for choosing our company, ...well, his company was out-of-business, ...yet here we are just finishing up birthday celebrations on our very 1st birthday last month. A milestone that less than 1 in 1000 new companies ever achieves. We have managed to achieve in our 1st 6 months, what many established companies have not been able to accomplish in 6 yrs of operations. We've also accomplished in our 1st yr, what many multimillion dollar industry giants have not been able to accomplish in 10 yrs. We have seasoned veterans of our industry that are scratching their heads in amazement at what we've accomplished. It comes down to research, and knowing the keys for success, & all the mile markers that indicate the company will be there for the long haul.
From there, you really then have to determine what it is that you want out of it. it can't be something vague like lots of money, you need to get specific. If it is money, then nail down a dollar amount, and understand what exactly that particular dollar amount will do for you, ...but also what it will take to achieve it. Then determine if the company you're with, or are contemplating joining, is really the vehicle that has the capability to take you where you want to go. There are a lot of factors that can help you determine this, but it starts with what you want to get out of it. Only when you're clear on that... can you begin to know if the company you're contemplating joining has anything of value for you.
In the Real Estate industry, a key phrase heard over & over again is "Location, LOCATION, LOCATION!"
...well in network mktg, it's all about "Timing, TIMING, TIMING!"
I recommend to everyone who is, has, or will ever consider network mktg, to read this pdf about Timing (http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/Timing.pdf) in MLM.
It can really go a long way towards shedding some light on why some people succeed, while others fail, ...but also help you to determine if the particular company you're contemplating joining is going to meet your needs, goals, & aspirations, etc.,
Pyramid schemes are great if you are in the beginning of a 'hot' product or service, but not when you are in the lower tiers.
Pyramid schemes are NOT great, ...in the beginning or otherwise. They inevitably collapse leaving a lot of hurt and/or defrauded victims in their wake. Yes, there are some advantages to seizing the opportunity early while a company is in formulation, ...however, in a legitimate viable network mktg opportunity, not getting in at the beginning is not necessarily going to break you. Infact, unless you're a seasoned veteran cognizant of the trials & tribulations a new company is going to experience, I'd strongly advise some people NOT to get in at the beginning. Getting in too early can infact break you worse than getting in too late. I've seen people come in network mktg companies, and blow away top distributors who have been there building for 5 or 6 yrs previously. We have people earning some serious money in our company, I mean SERIOUS, ...but you know what... the top income earner has not even joined the company yet.
Too many people have found out otherwise on it, after hours and hours of work with very little to show for it later on.
And they are too embarrassed to talk about it later either.
yep, ...or they will instead blame it on everything, and everyone else rather than on themselves.
But I really wish you'd stop calling network mktg a pyramid scheme {cringe} (see my 'honest banker' reference earlier)
I think it isn't the business that makes the schemes, its the independent reps. Some of them can be shady but that's like any business
Vince is correct here. Like any potentially highly lucrative venture, network mktg will attract all sorts of people.
In network mtkg, you will meet the best of the best. The nicest, most genuine, caring, compassionate saints...
...you will also meet the scum of the earth. I've met both types and just about every type in between.
The nice people are better. :)
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Here's some simple common sense advice on this topic:
To me some people are living proof of my uncle's adage that "Common sense is not all that common." :P
Any business that has to spend considerable time and effort trying to explain to you why it's not a pyramid scheme almost certainly IS a pyramid scheme.
...or it could mean the recipient of the info is too dense to grasp a simple explanation the first time around.
Hope That Clarifies, ;)
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Pyramid Scheme = Corporate America
DING, DING, DING!
SOMEBODY GIVE THIS MAN A PRIZE!!!
(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/trophy.jpg)
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I don't even waste my time talking about pyramid schemes. I do very well in my nutritional business still however I decided to sell PPL services because its something that everyone needs, something that I use, and the compensation package and benefits are great. I signed up for only $49 dollar...200 dollars off the general price, paid 40 dollars for my License (In SC, you have to be licensed by the state to sell legal services) and that was it. Very low overhead!!!
The amazing thing is that although I've not spent much time on the business, I've already recruited 3 sales associates, with 2 of them being my supervisors at the place I work my job to help out with the business and I have a few more people signing up with Team Goodrum, even from this board!!!! The $49 Associate signup special they are running right now is helping out and I provide free business software and template ads that I use. Once the special is over, I'll concentrate more on membership sales since that's where the real money is.
MLM marketing works when you're able to sell services but recruiting is important simply because it helps you cover more territory and sale more. That's how most businesses work anyway.
If you need more info or so then go to www.caliberenterprises.c om. That's all I have to say on this
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Stay away from anything Monkey is associated with. That is a business tip you will thank me a million times for.
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Isn't this considered spam?
...oh wait, everything 'Bumm posts is spam...
Everyone else is doing it.
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To me some people are living proof of my uncle's adage that "Common sense is not all that common." :P
...or it could mean the recipient of the info is too dense to grasp a simple explanation the first time around.
Hope That Clarifies, ;)
I have had the misfortune of being duped into attending a "business meeting" held by Amway and its offshoots a couple times (out of courtesy to so-called friends). They all do in fact spend time trying to explain why they're not a scheme AND they do in fact insult you with things like "ignorance is bliss" in an effort to get you to sign up. People can make money doing this stuff, but you have to be a salesman.
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I have had the misfortune of being duped into attending a "business meeting" held by Amway and its offshoots a couple times (out of courtesy to so-called friends). They all do in fact spend time trying to explain why they're not a scheme AND they do in fact insult you with things like "ignorance is bliss" in an effort to get you to sign up. People can make money doing this stuff, but you have to be a salesman.
You have my undying sympathy. :'( I know what those guys can be like, and I know the methods they use.
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I don't even waste my time talking about pyramid schemes. I do very well in my nutritional business still however I decided to sell PPL services because its something that everyone needs, something that I use, and the compensation package and benefits are great.
I'm confused Vince, ...because this statement differs greatly from what you said in this thread:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=49851.0 (http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=49851.0) especially what you said in reference to reply # 14
I signed up for only $49 dollar...200 dollars off the general price, paid 40 dollars for my License (In SC, you have to be licensed by the state to sell legal services) and that was it. Very low overhead!!!
Vince, do you not find that this requirement for state licensing somewhat limits the ability for others to enter the arena, thereby limiting your potential to expand your business and leverage and flourish on it's growth? After all, the more people in your business who are also selling your services, the more leverage you have as those sales benefit you as well do they not?, ...or am I mistaken?
The amazing thing is that although I've not spent much time on the business, I've already recruited 3 sales associates, with 2 of them being my supervisors at the place I work my job to help out with the business and I have a few more people signing up with Team Goodrum, even from this board!!!! The $49 Associate signup special they are running right now is helping out and I provide free business software and template ads that I use. Once the special is over, I'll concentrate more on membership sales since that's where the real money is.
OK, I a little confused here. I remember in June of 2005 you telling me that you were joining Pre-Paid Legal with Nikita Koloff. but then last December, you described Nikita's message etc as 'hype' and stated that you saw red flags and "got out of dodge" or something to that effect, ...but now you are saying something else.
MLM marketing works when you're able to sell services but recruiting is important simply because it helps you cover more territory and sale more. That's how most businesses work anyway.
Network mtkg works when it is standing on a number of pillars imo. Yes, sales are important. They are the lifeblood of any company, and as such you need a product that is unique, consumable, visual, & emotional. Something where people feel compelled to purchase it over & over because of the results and the tangible benefits they are able to see.
There are some companies that will offer intangibles like... life insurance or something. And life insurance is a good thing to have, ...however, over the years, in the market, I've found that when times are difficult, and people aren't able to see tangible products in their hands, that they can touch, taste, smell or feel, ...they have a tendency to lose sight of the intrinsic value of that product or service. That product or service, then becomes an albatross around their neck, ...something they have to keep paying out for every month, ...without actually seeing any reward. When they start to tighten their belts & cut back, insurance premiums are usually the first things to go. They can cut that expense out of their budgets, and not feel any impact on their lifestyles at all.
It's hard to say with insurance tho. I remember when Katrina occured, and those insurance companies knew they'd be paying out, ...they started advertising like crazy offering all sorts of incentives to attract new customers whose premiums they knew would be required to cover the payouts on all the claims that were going to be filed.
And then too policy holders have a tendency to let them lapse at the start of the new year, as they contemplate paying off all those credit card bills they incurred during the holidays?
That's why you would never catch me in Life insurance sales, because it's such a discretionary purchase, and not particularly unique.
Having a product that sells well is important, ...but more important than that initial sale are those repeating sales, because these are the foundations from which your business will be built. Will the sales stick?
The challenge with having a product that sells well, is that there are not enough hours in the day to make all the sales. It's just impossible. Sooner or later you will run out of time and/or talent. In network mtkg, one of the keys to success is to market unique, exclusive, consumeable, non discretionary products that people are able to purchase over and over once they've used them all up.
anyway, ...I'm rambling and these are obviously subjects for a different thread, ...but I was curious about the discrepancy between your various comments about PPL. in that thread, both on page 1 and on page 2.
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I'm confused Vince, ...because this statement differs greatly from what you said in this thread:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=49851.0 (http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=49851.0) especially what you said in reference to reply # 14
Vince, do you not find that this requirement for state licensing somewhat limits the ability for others to enter the arena, thereby limiting your potential to expand your business and leverage and flourish on it's growth? After all, the more people in your business who are also selling your services, the more leverage you have as those sales benefit you as well do they not?, ...or am I mistaken?
OK, I a little confused here. I remember in June of 2005 you telling me that you were joining Pre-Paid Legal with Nikita Koloff. but then last December, you described Nikita's message etc as 'hype' and stated that you saw red flags and "got out of dodge" or something to that effect, ...but now you are saying something else.
Network mtkg works when it is standing on a number of pillars imo. Yes, sales are important. They are the lifeblood of any company, and as such you need a product that is unique, consumable, visual, & emotional. Something where people feel compelled to purchase it over & over because of the results and the tangible benefits they are able to see.
There are some companies that will offer intangibles like... life insurance or something. And life insurance is a good thing to have, ...however, over the years, in the market, I've found that when times are difficult, and people aren't able to see tangible products in their hands, that they can touch, taste, smell or feel, ...they have a tendency to lose sight of the intrinsic value of that product or service. That product or service, then becomes an albatross around their neck, ...something they have to keep paying out for every month, ...without actually seeing any reward. When they start to tighten their belts & cut back, insurance premiums are usually the first things to go. They can cut that expense out of their budgets, and not feel any impact on their lifestyles at all.
It's hard to say with insurance tho. I remember when Katrina occured, and those insurance companies knew they'd be paying out, ...they started advertising like crazy offering all sorts of incentives to attract new customers whose premiums they knew would be required to cover the payouts on all the claims that were going to be filed.
And then too policy holders have a tendency to let them lapse at the start of the new year, as they contemplate paying off all those credit card bills they incurred during the holidays?
That's why you would never catch me in Life insurance sales, because it's such a discretionary purchase, and not particularly unique.
Having a product that sells well is important, ...but more important than that initial sale are those repeating sales, because these are the foundations from which your business will be built. Will the sales stick?
The challenge with having a product that sells well, is that there are not enough hours in the day to make all the sales. It's just impossible. Sooner or later you will run out of time and/or talent. In network mtkg, one of the keys to success is to market unique, exclusive, consumeable, non discretionary products that people are able to purchase over and over once they've used them all up.
anyway, ...I'm rambling and these are obviously subjects for a different thread, ...but I was curious about the discrepancy between your various comments about PPL. in that thread, both on page 1 and on page 2.
First off, the Team Liberty was a joke for Titus & Ryan fans. I was never a member or associate of that organation.
Now, it is true I did a 180 this year for Pre-Paid Legal. I steered away from it due to what I perceived as red flags however I checked some records in July and found that most of the cases were generally dismissed and that the only refunds truly given so far has been a few nickels and dimes. Not only that, the majority of lawsuits were in Missisippi, which is a pit of despair and a place where they can be filed and initially won easily.
The main thing that sold me on the Pre-Paid Legal finally was the self employed business plans they offer. Basically one low price for legal service, debt collection service, website & hosting, and business consultation. Its basically a gold mine as I've come to find and most business owners will keep the service for a long time due to the website hosting and etc.
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First off, the Team Liberty was a joke for Titus & Ryan fans. I was never a member or associate of that organation.
Now, it is true I did a 180 this year for Pre-Paid Legal. I steered away from it due to what I perceived as red flags however I checked some records in July and found that most of the cases were generally dismissed and that the only refunds truly given so far has been a few nickels and dimes. Not only that, the majority of lawsuits were in Missisippi, which is a pit of despair and a place where they can be filed and initially won easily.
The main thing that sold me on the Pre-Paid Legal finally was the self employed business plans they offer. Basically one low price for legal service, debt collection service, website & hosting, and business consultation. Its basically a gold mine as I've come to find and most business owners will keep the service for a long time due to the website hosting and etc.
Well then congratulations on doing the investigation necessary to make an empowered decision about whether PPL was right for you.
Best of Luck with it. :)
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Thanks....after I turn in my sales, it should be enough for me to be a Senior Associate and once my team gets their sales in, I'll be Director. Hopefully I can accomplish this by Febuary.
Being back in the MLM is actually the most frightening thing ever as I have not been in one for over 5 years and especially this weekend as I bought out an indoor booth this weekend at the Fairground Square for a coordination point for my team. Right now, I'm pretty tired from running back and forth and I'm glad that the booth is finally finished with the exception of a chair. Once I get all of my salespeople on my mail list manager, I'll have more control over operations and will be able to send them out to areas of opportunity. Technically I'm still under Team Fortune International www.teamfi.com but I like being more independent from the group and do my own thing. I still have to report to them and etc but MLM is about being an "independent associate". I still use the same general MLM techniques such as 3 way call conference sales and using referrals and leads but I also like doing Skypecast Teleseminars Ebay advertisements. Overall, its work but not really much as I simply give out brochures and flyers and let the product sell itself.
BTW, what happenned to Synergy. I see you're promoting some sort of gas saver product
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I haven't read all this stuff so sorry if this has been said already. But, originally I think the one of the first pyramids was an "airplane" You started one and you were the pilot then you got others to join under you and you get paid each time. And each time someone under you got someone to join they moved up the ladder and got paid. SOmething like that. AM I right
I was structured like a pyramid. The person at the top of the pyramid made the most money and as long as people were recruiting people the pyramids would get bigger and bigger and the money would get more and more.As you move up a level you made more. It always confused me. And first ones consisted of strictly cash. Then the government got involved and someone come up with the idea of getting a product involved. INsteaqd of paying cash (making it illegal) you buy something, then tell others about it and have them buy products too. You get a pice of that and so on. SO now you have a pyramid but also a great way to sell shit.
I actually belonged to one which I can't rmemeber but it was a Travel Agent one. You actually paid only $300 and you got a card and other ID saying you are an Official Travel Agent. Back in the early 90's I easily traveled 100,000 miles a year and it cost me dough. I heard about this and it saved me thousands of dollars. And I didn't even take advantage of the real deals travel agents get till it was to late. You could actually say you work for so and so company and you want to come visit Greece. You can get hotel FREE, rental cars FREE and up to 75% off of airfare anywhere in the world. It was awesome. Then something happened where this partiscular company I juoined chnaged the whole industry. Now travel agents don't make shit. It was fun while it lasted though. I couldn't believed it work.
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Everyone else is doing it.
http://yourforumpostisspam.ytmnd.com/
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Here's some simple common sense advice on this topic:
Any business that has to spend considerable time and effort trying to explain to you why it's not a pyramid scheme almost certainly IS a pyramid scheme.
Exactly.
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Jag, I'm absolutely correct. Multi level marketing IS the signature of a company with little belief in the product. FFI might be the exception to the rule, but notice how I didn't direct that at FFI directly.
This is a completely separate topic from the subject of this thread, ...but I will say this, ...
I don't doubt there are companies with little faith in their product who may choose to utilize a network mktg model, however, one cannot judge the legitimacy of a company or it's product offerings based solely upon the method of distribution it employs.
If we had little faith in our product at FFi, we certainly wouldn't have invested the millions of dollars in global infrastructure ahead of the sales. We knew the sales would come, as well as the repeat sales.
Network Marketing is the business model of choice for companies with the desire to get their product into the market place at lightening fast speed. It has been proven to be the fast, most efficient way to get a product into the marketplace. It is also the distribution model of choice for products that require a level of interaction in educating the consumer on it's proper use. Please see this article with Paul Zane Pilzer (http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/Pilzer.htm) discussing 'Intellectual Distribution'
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Did this thread go to plan Jag?
Has ANYONE received a more warming look towards MLM after reading your propaganda?
You never link to outside sources as "evidence" do you?
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"In the US there is nearly a 100% loss rate for those induced to "invest" in "their own business" in any given Amway/Quixtar motivational organization. The documentation seems to clearly support that Amway has been aware of this for nearly 20 years."
end this fucking thread
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MLM is just another word for Pyramid Scheme. My friend asked me to go to a meeting yesterday involving Monavie. So I spent most of the night before researching it. Well after I emailed my friend back some interesting facts about this bogus bullshit, my friend cancelled the meeting and no one showed up. MLM benefit very few people and in every instance only the creators make the most money. Which is fine but they misrepresent to lure many others into the scheme. Before you get involved with any MLM look into it. By the way 98% of every person who is involved with Monavie makes less than $400 a week. And 90% make less than $200. And the product itself is overpriced and not anyway near better than buying 100% pure Acai capsules.
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MLM is just another word for Pyramid Scheme. My friend asked me to go to a meeting yesterday involving Monavie. So I spent most of the night before researching it. Well after I emailed my friend back some interesting facts about this bogus bullshit, my friend cancelled the meeting and no one showed up. MLM benefit very few people and in every instance only the creators make the most money. Which is fine but they misrepresent to lure many others into the scheme. Before you get involved with any MLM look into it. By the way 98% of every person who is involved with Monavie makes less than $400 a week. And 90% make less than $200. And the product itself is overpriced and not anyway near better than buying 100% pure Acai capsules.
Monavie is not a pyramid scheme. It is a legitimate network mktg company. That said, not all are created equal.
I took a look at Monavie when they first launched. I don't know about those stats you mention. Most everyone that I know who is working monavie as a business is making very good money, but then again, many of my contacts are professional networkers :-\ Would I recommend the Monavie business to someone? No. Not everyone is cut out to have a network mktg business. Some opportunities are easier than others. Those who are prepared to build a business, and follow through in both good times and bad will do so, and will be successful. Those who choose to give up at the first sign of difficulty, or who quit upon hearing their first few rejections, or upon hearing the least thing negative anyone might have to say, will not. The majority of the public falls into the latter category, and doesn't have the proper mindset to be successful in network mktg. Until they alter their mindset, they're better off to do something else.
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If a product is so good, it should be able to stand on its own merits.....not have it wrapped around some dodgy sales ideology
bottom line ----------> MLM is synonymous with lies, deceit, emotional programming and exaggerated results.....
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Monavie is not a pyramid scheme. It is a legitimate network mktg company. That said, not all are created equal.
I took a look at Monavie when they first launched. I wasn't too impressed with the quality of their product and didn't bother following through. I don't know about those stats you mention. Most everyone that I know who is working monavie as a business is making very good money, but then again, many of my contacts are professional networkers :-\ Would I recommend the Monavie business to someone? No.
The owners of Monavie got out just in time when their other MLM got busted by the Feds and closed down. Monavie also contains less than 10% of the actual Acai Berry. In addition it is WAY over priced. Another thing is they don't even use the best quality Acai Berry from Sambazon(?). A group of people had me look into them before a meeting scheduled. After I emailed them the facts about this stuff they cancelled the meeting. i hat companies like this. Like I said it is public knowledge that more than 90% of the people who sell that stuff is making less than $400 a week. And most of the money they are making are the kickbacks they get when buying the product for themselves. But I do agree with your recommendation. NO
If a product is so good, it should be able to stand on its own merits.....not have it wrapped around some dodgy sales ideology
bottom line ----------> MLM is synonymous with lies, deceit, emotional programming and exaggerated results.....
Agreed. Like Monavie. Pure Acai berry that has been freeze dried within 24 hours of picking i the best. Buying it in capsule form is the best. it is 100% pure Acai Berry with nothing else. $39.95 a month. Monavie has less than 10% Acai Berry from freeze dried and puree. It also has 18 other fruits and ther additives and preservatives. It is packaged in a great looking black bottle and sells for $40 a bottle which last about 6 days so it is almost $180 a month and you only get 10% of what the other product gives. It is all hype and all crap. The owners are making over $1 million a month. To bad for the other suckers. Only a very few are making anything that I would consider huge money.
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If a product is so good, it should be able to stand on its own merits.....not have it wrapped around some dodgy sales ideology
Agreed, ...however standing on it's own merits doesn't preclude MLM. Network mktg isn't a dodgy sales ideology.
The problem is too many people try to sell a product using network mtkg because it can not be sold any other way. That doesn't make network mktg bad, ...it simply means they had a bad product to begin with.
bottom line ----------> MLM is synonymous with lies, deceit, emotional programming and exaggerated results.....
You will find lies, deceit, emotional programming and exxagerated results everwhere.
Why should MLM be any different? What is so special about MLM that they could find themselves immune from realities of the marketplace?
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Agreed, ...however standing on it's own merits doesn't preclude MLM. Network mktg isn't a dodgy sales ideology.
The problem is too many people try to sell a product using network mtkg because it can not be sold any other way. That doesn't make network mktg bad, ...it simply means they had a bad product to begin with.
You will find lies, deceit, emotional programming and exxagerated results everwhere.
Why should MLM be any different? What is so special about MLM that they could find themselves immune from realities of the marketplace?
You'll make a great AMWAY salesman.....persistent, fooled and a dodgy answer to everything...
I'll have two face creams please........:)
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I don't know much about pyramid schemes, but I can't see what the problem would be with them?
It's possible for someone on the bottom to out sell people above them and move all the way to the top isn't it?
???
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I don't know much about pyramid schemes, but I can't see what the problem would be with them?
Pyramid schemes are illegal, and do nothing but shuffle money about.
They will always fail. The only question is how many people get hurt and lose money in the process.
It's possible for someone on the bottom to out sell people above them and move all the way to the top isn't it?
???
In network mktg, it is very possible for someone on the bottom to out sell people above them, ...but they do not "move to the top"... they simply make more money than those above them. They will also receive more recognition.... and be seen as the "superstars".... but their place within the geneology does not change.
As you can see by my statement, pyramid schemes & network mktg. are two very different beasts.
Don't ever let anyone tell you any different.
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Pyramid schemes are illegal, and do nothing but shuffle money about.
They will always fail. The only question is how many people get hurt and lose money in the process.
In network mktg, it is very possible for someone on the bottom to out sell people above them, ...but they do not "move to the top"... they simply make more money than those above them. They will also receive more recognition.... and be seen as the "superstars".... but their place within the geneology does not change.
As you can see by my statement, pyramid schemes & network mktg. are two very different beasts.
Don't ever let anyone tell you any different.
It is sometimes difficult to distinguish legal and reputable MLMs from illegal pyramid or Ponzi schemes. MLM businesses operate in the United States in all 50 states and in more than 100 other countries, and new businesses may use terms like "affiliate marketing" or "home-based business franchising". However, many pyramid schemes try to present themselves as legitimate MLM businesses.
In the most legitimate MLM companies, commissions are earned only on sales of the company's products or services. No money may be earned from recruiting alone ("sign-up fees"), though money earned from the sales of members recruited is one attraction of MLM arrangements. If participants are paid primarily from money received from new recruits, or if they are required to buy more product than they are likely to sell, then the company may be a pyramid or Ponzi scheme, which is illegal in most countries.
New salespeople may be asked to pay for their own training and marketing materials, or to buy a significant amount of inventory. A commonly adopted test of legality is that MLMs follow the so-called 70% rule which prevents members "inventory loading" in order to qualify for additional bonuses. The 70% rule requires participants to sell 70% of previously purchased inventory before placing new orders with the company. There are however variations in interpretations of this rule. Some attorneys insist that 70% of purchased inventory should be sold to people who are not participants in the business, while many MLM companies allow for self-consumption to be a significant part of the sales of a participant.
The FTC advises that multi-level marketing organizations with greater incentives for recruitment than product sales are to be viewed skeptically. The FTC also warns that the practice of getting commissions from recruiting new members is outlawed in most states as "pyramiding".[5] In April 2006, it proposed a Business Opportunity Rule intended to require all sellers of business opportunities—including MLMs—to provide enough information to enable prospective buyers to make an informed decision about their probability of earning money.
See: http://www.jaguarenterprises.org/ - http://www.jme.ffivideo.com/
Appears both these sites of yours put primary emphasis on recruitment. One wonders... :D
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It is sometimes difficult to distinguish legal and reputable MLMs from illegal pyramid or Ponzi schemes. MLM businesses operate in the United States in all 50 states and in more than 100 other countries, and new businesses may use terms like "affiliate marketing" or "home-based business franchising". However, many pyramid schemes try to present themselves as legitimate MLM businesses.
In the most legitimate MLM companies, commissions are earned only on sales of the company's products or services. No money may be earned from recruiting alone ("sign-up fees"), though money earned from the sales of members recruited is one attraction of MLM arrangements. If participants are paid primarily from money received from new recruits, or if they are required to buy more product than they are likely to sell, then the company may be a pyramid or Ponzi scheme, which is illegal in most countries.
New salespeople may be asked to pay for their own training and marketing materials, or to buy a significant amount of inventory. A commonly adopted test of legality is that MLMs follow the so-called 70% rule which prevents members "inventory loading" in order to qualify for additional bonuses. The 70% rule requires participants to sell 70% of previously purchased inventory before placing new orders with the company. There are however variations in interpretations of this rule. Some attorneys insist that 70% of purchased inventory should be sold to people who are not participants in the business, while many MLM companies allow for self-consumption to be a significant part of the sales of a participant.
The FTC advises that multi-level marketing organizations with greater incentives for recruitment than product sales are to be viewed skeptically. The FTC also warns that the practice of getting commissions from recruiting new members is outlawed in most states as "pyramiding".[5] In April 2006, it proposed a Business Opportunity Rule intended to require all sellers of business opportunities—including MLMs—to provide enough information to enable prospective buyers to make an informed decision about their probability of earning money.
See: http://www.jaguarenterprises.org/ - http://www.jme.ffivideo.com/
Appears both these sites of yours put primary emphasis on recruitment. One wonders... :D
Those site put emphasis on recruiting because they are recruiting websites.
Both companies adhere to the 70% rule, and in both companies, income is made strictly from product sales, and not signups.
I only participate in legitimate network mktg.
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Those site put emphasis on recruiting because they are recruiting websites.
Both companies adhere to the 70% rule, and in both companies, income is made strictly from product sales, and not signups.
I only participate in legitimate network mktg.
Of course you do Jag! You wouldn't lie or deceive would you (http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=249486.msg3516312#msg3516312)?
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Pyramid Scheme = Corporate America
Mr. Reynolds it's an honor to make your acquaintance.
The Cannon Ball Run and Stroker Ace ruled.