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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Powerlifting / Strongman => Topic started by: Hedgehog on March 28, 2007, 02:05:15 AM
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Another clown, Justin Graal, in yet another clown federation, APF, setting a world record in...
I dunno, I suppose it's supposed to be a squat?
FFS, he's in a double or triple canvas suit, with power briefs, extra long wraps, and what not.
But yet cannot even get even close to something that resembles a squat.
http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/node/4636
-Hedge
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Why does that guy get credit for doing anything right there, all I saw him do was act like a hyped retard and put some weight on his shoulders.
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holy shit that was a awful squat
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A perfect example of why many think powerlifting is a joke.
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holy shit that was a awful squat
where? I didn't see any squat
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They had their squat rack custom painted, and with flames of all things. Fags.
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Another clown, Justin Graal, in yet another clown federation, APF, setting a world record in...
I dunno, I suppose it's supposed to be a squat?
FFS, he's in a double or triple canvas suit, with power briefs, extra long wraps, and what not.
But yet cannot even get even close to something that resembles a squat.
http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/node/4636
-Hedge
Hedge,
I always respected powerlifting but after seeing this vid I had no idea that a federation could be so "in the dark"
What are the most respected feds? Iv always followed Dave Tate and Louie Simmons.
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where? I didn't see any squat
ha ha so true, it was like, am i already done ??? ;D
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fucking pathetic. that aint a squat.
haha billy do you "squat" like that ;D
that guy couldnt olympic squat 315
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Hedge,
I always respected powerlifting but after seeing this vid I had no idea that a federation could be so "in the dark"
What are the most respected feds? Iv always followed Dave Tate and Louie Simmons.
Westside, Tate and Simmons club, compete in mostly monolift-high squat and multi-layer- super-size-all extra-lifting gear feds.
Such as APF and WPO/WPC (this "squat" was from the APF).
The two big legit federations, as far as squat depth, lifting rules and lifting gear, are USPF and IPF/USAPL.
-Hedge
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I didn't know planet fitness had Squat meets. ???
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it aint powerlifting if it aint raw
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it aint powerlifting if it aint raw
RESPECT!
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and im not talking about bareback ;D
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hahahahahahaha, that passed?
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That was so pathetic
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hahahahahahaha, that passed?
hahahaah youre a dweeb..
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hahahaah youre a dweeb..
and you have a huge head, no arms and small legs. ;D
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and you have a huge head, no arms and small legs. ;D
monowheel
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and you have a huge head, no arms and small legs. ;D
squadfather=OWNED
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you look like squadfather.
8)
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squadfather=OWNED
hahahahaah, you just proved my point, my arms and shoulders are bigger than yours, BTW the guy in the shirtless pic ain't me.
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that is a piss poor effort for a WR squat. Hell i wonder how much all of us could increase our numbers with that equipment and technique
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hahahahaah, you just proved my point, my arms and shoulders are bigger than yours, BTW the guy in the shirtless pic ain't me.
OK sf you only wish you had my chest shoulders arms back legs i blow you away...ill put up my pics against you any day care to wager...
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OK sf you only wish you had my chest shoulders arms back legs i blow you away...ill put up my pics against you any day care to wager...
hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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squadfather=OWNED
Good built Dan! Need little bit more guns though...
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Good built Dan! Need little bit more guns though...
in that shot you really dont see the tris my arms are 18 1/2 thanks man...
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hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THE LAUGHTER OF A MAN WHO HAS LOST ALL DIGNITY.
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in that shot you really dont see the tris my arms are 18 1/2 thanks man...
How tall are you?
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THE LAUGHTER OF A MAN WHO HAS LOST ALL DIGNITY.
capital letters meltdown.
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Horrible.
I'd like to know who the judges were for that meet.
A complete disgrace to powerlifting.
8)
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the problem with APF judges is the exact opposite of the problem with IPF judges. in the APF, they really want to see records broken so if someone is going for the attempt they'll likely let shit lifts pass (mike miller's squats, mendy's benches). in the IPF they judge retardedly strict on record attempts. siders has gotten redlighted for lifts that were smokeshows.
huge respect to the dude for getting under 1102 pounds, but that squat was extremely high.
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hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
squad father=the biggest looser, you are pathetic, look at you , fat piece of shit , ha ha ha
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squad father=the biggest looser, you are pathetic, look at you , fat piece of shit , ha ha ha
loser spell check to youre right ;D
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I think there are a lot of complaints about that squat right now.
I don't think it was a national meet, and I'm sure the judges were good friends of him, and really wanted him to set a record. I'm sure it is hard to not get caught up in the moment with something like that.
I think he even said he felt it was high, not his fault it was passed.
Just as many powerlifters are complaining about that squat as non powerlifters....
Also, to clarify, I'm not proclaiming myself a powerlifting expert.
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hahahahahahaha, that passed?
Go back to your closet eat your candies...
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Another clown, Justin Graal, in yet another clown federation, APF, setting a world record in...
I dunno, I suppose it's supposed to be a squat?
FFS, he's in a double or triple canvas suit, with power briefs, extra long wraps, and what not.
But yet cannot even get even close to something that resembles a squat.
http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/node/4636
-Hedge
Holy shit.
That's supposed to be a Squat, AT A MEET? ???
Fuck, at the gym, that would be a half assed effort, but at a meet?
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I think there are a lot of complaints about that squat right now.
I don't think it was a national meet, and I'm sure the judges were good friends of him, and really wanted him to set a record. I'm sure it is hard to not get caught up in the moment with something like that.
I think he even said he felt it was high, not his fault it was passed.
Just as many powerlifters are complaining about that squat as non powerlifters....
Also, to clarify, I'm not proclaiming myself a powerlifting expert.
Graals could have avoided the controversy.
By simply going below parallell.
In other words: Doing a real squat.
-Hedge
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Graals could have avoided the controversy.
By simply going below parallell.
In other words: Doing a real squat.
-Hedge
His other squats were of good depth.
Have you had 1100lbs on your back? I'm guessing it is tough to pay close attention to if he was parallel.
I'm assuming he went downt, tried to find the perfect blend of hitting parallel and stopping at the exact point where he would get the most power out of the hole, and ended up a bit high.....which he supposedly told friends after the fact.
You're into grip training...right?
Imagine you're at a grip comp, and you attempt to close the COC #3, you've already closed a #2, and something like a #2.5....it's your third attempt. You go for the #3, and don't touch....but the judges pass the closure.
You tell people "I'm pretty sure I didn't touch."
Someone videos it, puts it on the net under the title "epic tool using the COC $3" and you have pages of people on the internet bashing you for "calling that a closure."
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Go back to your closet eat your candies...
::)
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His other squats were of good depth.
Have you had 1100lbs on your back? I'm guessing it is tough to pay close attention to if he was parallel.
I'm assuming he went downt, tried to find the perfect blend of hitting parallel and stopping at the exact point where he would get the most power out of the hole, and ended up a bit high.....which he supposedly told friends after the fact.
You're into grip training...right?
Imagine you're at a grip comp, and you attempt to close the COC #3, you've already closed a #2, and something like a #2.5....it's your third attempt. You go for the #3, and don't touch....but the judges pass the closure.
You tell people "I'm pretty sure I didn't touch."
Someone videos it, puts it on the net under the title "epic tool using the COC $3" and you have pages of people on the internet bashing you for "calling that a closure."
Have you watched the video?
You claiming he is "a bit high"... Mate, I don't know what to tell you to be honest.
It doesn't even resemble a squat in my opinion.
Graals lift in a very liberal fed to start with, the APF. They got the "parallell" criteria, instead of the tougher "below parallell" that USPF and USAPL uses.
Your comparison to a CoC#3 closing doesn't hold.
If I would've been allowed use both hands, and pushed the CoC# into my leg or something to force it together, but still didn't close it, and got it counted as a one-hand closing, that would be a fair comparison.
TBH, I don't see why anyone with some kind of dignity would compete in these feds, when USPF (non-tested) and USAPL (drug-tested) are available. There are no excuses.
Captain Kirk, Ed Coan, Wade Hooper and other big lifters all lift in serious feds.
Ed Coan did some WPO contest, with a monolift. He still walked the weight out, and did a below parallell lift, in a single-ply suit and 2 meter long wraps.
-Hedge
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Have you watched the video?
You claiming he is "a bit high"... Mate, I don't know what to tell you to be honest.
It doesn't even resemble a squat in my opinion.
Graals lift in a very liberal fed to start with, the APF. They got the "parallell" criteria, instead of the tougher "below parallell" that USPF and USAPL uses.
Your comparison to a CoC#3 closing doesn't hold.
If I would've been allowed use both hands, and pushed the CoC# into my leg or something to force it together, but still didn't close it, and got it counted as a one-hand closing, that would be a fair comparison.
TBH, I don't see why anyone with some kind of dignity would compete in these feds, when USPF (non-tested) and USAPL (drug-tested) are available. There are no excuses.
Captain Kirk, Ed Coan, Wade Hooper and other big lifters all lift in serious feds.
Ed Coan did some WPO contest, with a monolift. He still walked the weight out, and did a below parallell lift, in a single-ply suit and 2 meter long wraps.
-Hedge
I don't think you get what I'm saying at all.
I haven't even watched the video.
Call the squat shit, high, poor judging, whatever. That's fine.
You're calling the lifter a tool for missing a squat. It's not his fault they passed it.
I believe Mike Miller asked for his WR squat to be taken off the books....but he still get shit for it.
Have Coan, Kirk, Hooper ever missed a lift? I don't think they've all gone 9 for 9 in every meet they've ever done....
If Coan missed a lift, and for some unknown reason, it got passed (mistake, poor judging, whatever), would you bash Coan?
I don't care if you think the squat is super high. But, from what I've heard, the lifter said he thought it was high, and he didn't post the video bragging about the lift.
Why bash him?
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I don't think you get what I'm saying at all.
I haven't even watched the video.
Call the squat shit, high, poor judging, whatever. That's fine.
You're calling the lifter a tool for missing a squat. It's not his fault they passed it.
I believe Mike Miller asked for his WR squat to be taken off the books....but he still get shit for it.
Have Coan, Kirk, Hooper ever missed a lift? I don't think they've all gone 9 for 9 in every meet they've ever done....
If Coan missed a lift, and for some unknown reason, it got passed (mistake, poor judging, whatever), would you bash Coan?
I don't care if you think the squat is super high. But, from what I've heard, the lifter said he thought it was high, and he didn't post the video bragging about the lift.
Why bash him?
Why bash him?
Watch the video clip, then you'll understand, I think.
You claim the other squats were of good depth.
Here is another squat of Graalfs:
And here is the 3 inch "squat":
-Hedge
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Why bash him?
Watch the video clip, then you'll understand, I think.
You claim the other squats were of good depth.
Here is another squat of Graalfs:
And here is the 3 inch "squat":
-Hedge
I guess I don't get it then...
Me.....I would have a beef with the judges passing the lifts. I just can't see getting pissed at the lifter doing the lift.....he's not judging. He lifts in the that fed, under their rules, and his lifts get passed. Why would you bash him for that? Do you bash any homerun hitter who plays in a home run friendly park?
But, feel free to bash him then....
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I guess I don't get it then...
Me.....I would have a beef with the judges passing the lifts. I just can't see getting pissed at the lifter doing the lift.....he's not judging. He lifts in the that fed, under their rules, and his lifts get passed. Why would you bash him for that? Do you bash any homerun hitter who plays in a home run friendly park?
But, feel free to bash him then....
There are federations and lifters that doesn't make a joke out of powerlifting:
Wade Hooper:
-Hedge
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Now what was that? A belt and knee wraps are all that should be allowed for a proper squat, my point proved by me, i squat 480 for a single with belt and wraps but 625 with a suit and briefs!! thats not my real strength!
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There are federations and lifters that doesn't make a joke out of powerlifting:
Wade Hooper:
-Hedge
don't take one bad call out on the entire federation. there are a lot of incredible WPO lifters out there. travis mash, bolton, among others.
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Now what was that? A belt and knee wraps are all that should be allowed for a proper squat, my point proved by me, i squat 480 for a single with belt and wraps but 625 with a suit and briefs!! thats not my real strength!
bullshit on the 625.
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bullshit on the 625.
TBH, it sounds about right, if it's in one of the "parallell" feds.
That's what's so fcuked up.
When a lifter gets close to 200 lbs or more out of the lifting gear, it starts to become a joke.
My guess is that a guy like Graalfs could squat MAYBE 600 lbs below parallell raw.
I wouldn't bet any money on it though.
It would mean lifting gear and his lifting "technique" added 500+ lbs.
-Hedge
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TBH, it sounds about right, if it's in one of the "parallell" feds.
That's what's so fcuked up.
When a lifter gets close to 200 lbs or more out of the lifting gear, it starts to become a joke.
My guess is that a guy like Graalfs could squat MAYBE 600 lbs below parallell raw.
I wouldn't bet any money on it though.
It would mean lifting gear and his lifting "technique" added 500+ lbs.
-Hedge
what do you think big Jeff Lewis could do raw, Hedge?
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i'd say lewis would be in the high 900s in wraps and a belt. the man is a wrecking ball, at the very least he'd be able to use his body's natural rebound effectively.
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bullshit on the 625.
I have no reason to lie, this crap added 150lbs to my lift!
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i'd say lewis would be in the high 900s in wraps and a belt. the man is a wrecking ball, at the very least he'd be able to use his body's natural rebound effectively.
he's from here in St. Louis, i've seen him in person many times and this guy is like an eclipse, he blocks out the sun, 6'0" 530 pounds.
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he's from here in St. Louis, i've seen him in person many times and this guy is like an eclipse, he blocks out the sun, 6'0" 530 pounds.
6 feet and 530lbs?!?!Shit!!
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6 feet and 530lbs?!?!Shit!!
he's very obese but he has the biggest legs i've ever seen on a human being in my life, VERY VERY VERY nice guy though.
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he's taller than that, i though. around 6'5" or so. here's his 1212 squat, right on the dot parallel.
(http://asp.elitefts.com/images/upload/qa/jeff%20squat.jpg)
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he's taller than that, i though. around 6'5" or so. here's his 1212 squat, right on the dot parallel.
(http://asp.elitefts.com/images/upload/qa/jeff%20squat.jpg)
no like i said i've stood next to him at a couple of local USAPL meets, he was just attending not competing and he's maybe an inch taller than me and i'm a shade under 6 feet.
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he's also a monster bencher, in the 800's i believe.
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he's taller than that, i though. around 6'5" or so. here's his 1212 squat, right on the dot parallel.
(http://asp.elitefts.com/images/upload/qa/jeff%20squat.jpg)
holy fuck the guy is huge
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he's also a monster bencher, in the 800's i believe.
at the arnold last year he squatted 1212, benched i think 830, and then pulled somewhere in the 700s. ended up with a 2799 total, just shy of garry frank and now andy bolton's record. his size keeps him from being able to pull more, the man's strong enough to hit a 3000 total, i'm just not sure if he will.
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what do you think big Jeff Lewis could do raw, Hedge?
Certainly not his double bodyweight LMFAO...
It's not a pleasing sight to watch that guy:
(http://www.usaplnationals.com/2003MoState/images/lewisSQ_large.jpg)
My guess is he could get high 800 raw with a belt. If we're talking below parallell.
Last I heard, he was up to 500 lbs in weight or something.
Will probably "go" from obesity related problems soon. :'(
-Hedge
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i'd say lewis would be in the high 900s in wraps and a belt. the man is a wrecking ball, at the very least he'd be able to use his body's natural rebound effectively.
No biggie but...
Raw = belt only.
-Hedge
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Please don't think all Powerlifting federations are like this my friends. The APF is a joke, just like the WPC and any others.
The Ipf is the federation I compete in and is what I believe is easily the hands down best, beacuse 1- its drug tested, 2 - only single ply gear.... none of this triple ply canvas bullshit. 3- knee and wrist wraps permitted are't 10 yards like like these other guys.
The deadlift will tell the story between federations... as u can't get much out of a dead suit. Go to any of the bullshit federations, and wach the numbers fall in the dead compared to the squat. It's haliarious. I love to lift raw too. Any raw federation is a good one.
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I have no reason to lie, this crap added 150lbs to my lift!
Depends on the federation. What suit do you use. If single ply, u will never get that much. If its canvas of triple ply bullshit... then yes, you can. (Sorry, but I hat anything other than single ply bud, lol)
;D
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I agree 100% Raw powerlifting rules
I guess I'll throw in my agreement, too :)
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You know the real problem with APF/WPO and also the APC/GPC is the canvas suits combined with the briefs. When I first got into powerlifting the coach that I had insisted that I try canvas after I was hitting really good numbers in the poly suits. The problem is that my squats are almost olympic style kind of dive bomb squats. With the canvas you MUST go wider and it is almost impossible to hit parallel without loading the bar to way over your 1 rep max. Combine that with 2 ply briefs underneath and it is just as bad as the extreme open back multiply bench shirts. I love powerlifting but I wish they would have just stuck with the single ply poly material equipment. By the way, Justin Graalfs is actually a really good lifter and I'm sure he will tell them to take the record out of the books as Jim Grandick from the same gym did with his shitty squat.
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he did go parallel
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You know the real problem with APF/WPO and also the APC/GPC is the canvas suits combined with the briefs. When I first got into powerlifting the coach that I had insisted that I try canvas after I was hitting really good numbers in the poly suits. The problem is that my squats are almost olympic style kind of dive bomb squats. With the canvas you MUST go wider and it is almost impossible to hit parallel without loading the bar to way over your 1 rep max. Combine that with 2 ply briefs underneath and it is just as bad as the extreme open back multiply bench shirts. I love powerlifting but I wish they would have just stuck with the single ply poly material equipment. By the way, Justin Graalfs is actually a really good lifter and I'm sure he will tell them to take the record out of the books as Jim Grandick from the same gym did with his shitty squat.
Totally agree man. All this gear is just a death trap waiting to happen. IPF, u can't wear briefs either. They can be good for up to 40+ lbs alone!
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hedgehog should have put this in the powerlifting forum.
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Wade Hooper is the shit!
8)
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Depends on the federation. What suit do you use. If single ply, u will never get that much. If its canvas of triple ply bullshit... then yes, you can. (Sorry, but I hat anything other than single ply bud, lol)
;D
You are wrong about not getting 150lbs of carryover in a single ply squat suit w/no briefs.
You state you hat(e) anything other than single ply? If your in for a penny then your in for a pound.
Do you realize Some people hate your single ply?
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I've questioned Justin's lift since I read about it in PLUSA last month. It was high.... Thats all there is about it, but the judges gave him two white lights, so it counts.
As far as the gear goes, I really, really think we are getting close to the limit you will see because of gear. The simple fact is that the back can only take so much compression. You can put on a multi layer suit and briefs and what not to support the hips and knees, but you are not going to be able to support/counteract the compressive forces on the backbone. We are just a stones throw away from seeing people blow out disks becuase of the compressive forces on their backs. Its going to happen because no matter how much gear is used, the back is still putting up with the compressive forces of 1000, 1100, 1200+ lbs.
My personal opinion is that the support gear used is not a big deal--as long as what is used is consistant in the specific competition. If one person has a canvas suit, they better all be wearing one or if one person is in a poly suit, they better all be wearing one. I watch the guys using double layered briefs and canvas suits for the "Holy cow" factor. I watch single layer squatters like Kirk K. for respect of what he's able to do and I watch the raw lifters because they impress the hell out of me. Its really that simple.
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I've questioned Justin's lift since I read about it in PLUSA last month. It was high.... Thats all there is about it, but the judges gave him two white lights, so it counts.
As far as the gear goes, I really, really think we are getting close to the limit you will see because of gear. The simple fact is that the back can only take so much compression. You can put on a multi layer suit and briefs and what not to support the hips and knees, but you are not going to be able to support/counteract the compressive forces on the backbone. We are just a stones throw away from seeing people blow out disks becuase of the compressive forces on their backs. Its going to happen because no matter how much gear is used, the back is still putting up with the compressive forces of 1000, 1100, 1200+ lbs.
My personal opinion is that the support gear used is not a big deal--as long as what is used is consistant in the specific competition. If one person has a canvas suit, they better all be wearing one or if one person is in a poly suit, they better all be wearing one. I watch the guys using double layered briefs and canvas suits for the "Holy cow" factor. I watch single layer squatters like Kirk K. for respect of what he's able to do and I watch the raw lifters because they impress the hell out of me. Its really that simple.
The lift in question is a squat in a meet from last week. The one in PLUSA was his old record. If you thought that one was high wait till you see this one.
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BTW the guy in the shirtless pic ain't me.
What does that have to do with anything? You know as well as anyone that on getbig it doesn't matter if it's you...If we SAY it's you...then it's you. :)(unless of coarse it is a GOOD picture that shows great muscularity....then of coarse,you're a liar) You should be proud... you are the biggest 14 year old I have ever seen.
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I've questioned Justin's lift since I read about it in PLUSA last month. It was high.... Thats all there is about it, but the judges gave him two white lights, so it counts.
As far as the gear goes, I really, really think we are getting close to the limit you will see because of gear. The simple fact is that the back can only take so much compression. You can put on a multi layer suit and briefs and what not to support the hips and knees, but you are not going to be able to support/counteract the compressive forces on the backbone. We are just a stones throw away from seeing people blow out disks becuase of the compressive forces on their backs. Its going to happen because no matter how much gear is used, the back is still putting up with the compressive forces of 1000, 1100, 1200+ lbs.
My personal opinion is that the support gear used is not a big deal--as long as what is used is consistant in the specific competition. If one person has a canvas suit, they better all be wearing one or if one person is in a poly suit, they better all be wearing one. I watch the guys using double layered briefs and canvas suits for the "Holy cow" factor. I watch single layer squatters like Kirk K. for respect of what he's able to do and I watch the raw lifters because they impress the hell out of me. Its really that simple.
My personal belief is that federations that allows for more than one layer gear and squatting out of monolifts and "parallell" lifts, they're making a joke out of powerlifting.
Why?
For one: Fat people get more from lifting gear. Meaning if you find a real fatass, and train him into reasonable shape, he'll be able to squat some serious poundage within a year if he can use a monolift, briefs, canvas, the clown squatting depth, and everything else that these feds puts up out.
Nobody would be happier than me if everything except a belt would be banned in powerlifting.
Sure, it will take some serious poundage of the squats and the benchpresses. But all lifts will be legit lifts.
And no more of these lardasses like Rychlak being hailed as a world class lifter.
troponin mentioned that it was unjust to call Graalfs a tool. I don't see it that way.
How anyone could compete in a high-squat, multi-ply fed is beyond my comprehension.
Graalfs could compete in a single-ply fed, with legit squat depth. He doesn't.
-Hedge
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My personal belief is that federations that allows for more than one layer gear and squatting out of monolifts and "parallell" lifts, they're making a joke out of powerlifting.
Why?
For one: Fat people get more from lifting gear. Meaning if you find a real fatass, and train him into reasonable shape, he'll be able to squat some serious poundage within a year if he can use a monolift, briefs, canvas, the clown squatting depth, and everything else that these feds puts up out.
Nobody would be happier than me if everything except a belt would be banned in powerlifting.
Sure, it will take some serious poundage of the squats and the benchpresses. But all lifts will be legit lifts.
And no more of these lardasses like Rychlak being hailed as a world class lifter.
troponin mentioned that it was unjust to call Graalfs a tool. I don't see it that way.
How anyone could compete in a high-squat, multi-ply fed is beyond my comprehension.
Graalfs could compete in a single-ply fed, with legit squat depth. He doesn't.
-Hedge
Excellent post!
i agree 100%.
8)
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he's bound together like someone caught inside a big ball of elastics
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My personal belief is that federations that allows for more than one layer gear and squatting out of monolifts and "parallell" lifts, they're making a joke out of powerlifting.
Why?
For one: Fat people get more from lifting gear. Meaning if you find a real fatass, and train him into reasonable shape, he'll be able to squat some serious poundage within a year if he can use a monolift, briefs, canvas, the clown squatting depth, and everything else that these feds puts up out.
Nobody would be happier than me if everything except a belt would be banned in powerlifting.
Sure, it will take some serious poundage of the squats and the benchpresses. But all lifts will be legit lifts.
And no more of these lardasses like Rychlak being hailed as a world class lifter.
troponin mentioned that it was unjust to call Graalfs a tool. I don't see it that way.
How anyone could compete in a high-squat, multi-ply fed is beyond my comprehension.
Graalfs could compete in a single-ply fed, with legit squat depth. He doesn't.
-Hedge
The fact is, the multi-ply feds are going to be putting up the biggest numbers. The biggest numbers are going to draw the best competition. The best competition is going to draw the biggest paychecks (no matter how small they may actually be in powerlifting).
If you want to compete against the best, you're pretty much going to have to compete in those feds.
There are going to be a few people like Coan or Siders who don't compete there frequently, but the Kennerly's, the Bolton's, Beni's, Mendelson's, Mason's, Turtianian's, Kroczaleski's, and many many other great lifters are going to be doing the multi-ply meets.
There will always be raw shows, and things like the NERB's that allow those lifters to lift without equipment.
It's just how it is going to be.
And, I do think Graalf's squat was high. I just don't see the point in calling him a tool.
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The fact is, the multi-ply feds are going to be putting up the biggest numbers. The biggest numbers are going to draw the best competition. The best competition is going to draw the biggest paychecks (no matter how small they may actually be in powerlifting).
If you want to compete against the best, you're pretty much going to have to compete in those feds.
There are going to be a few people like Coan or Siders who don't compete there frequently, but the Kennerly's, the Bolton's, Beni's, Mendelson's, Mason's, Turtianian's, Kroczaleski's, and many many other great lifters are going to be doing the multi-ply meets.
There will always be raw shows, and things like the NERB's that allow those lifters to lift without equipment.
It's just how it is going to be.
And, I do think Graalf's squat was high. I just don't see the point in calling him a tool.
i agree here Justin, Graalf's squat was a good deal high no doubt but to call the guy a tool is stupid, he's obviously a very strong guy and probably can squat at least mid 800's to legal depth with a belt and wraps only.
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The fact is, the multi-ply feds are going to be putting up the biggest numbers. The biggest numbers are going to draw the best competition. The best competition is going to draw the biggest paychecks (no matter how small they may actually be in powerlifting).
If you want to compete against the best, you're pretty much going to have to compete in those feds.
There are going to be a few people like Coan or Siders who don't compete there frequently, but the Kennerly's, the Bolton's, Beni's, Mendelson's, Mason's, Turtianian's, Kroczaleski's, and many many other great lifters are going to be doing the multi-ply meets.
There will always be raw shows, and things like the NERB's that allow those lifters to lift without equipment.
It's just how it is going to be.
And, I do think Graalf's squat was high. I just don't see the point in calling him a tool.
Thats is my attitude about it too. Sure, someone using double ply briefs and a triple ply canvas suit will lift more than what they could in a single ply brief and a poly suit, but the bottom line is that there are federations allowing that type of equipment and the guys in them are putting up big numbers. Big numbers make money. There is no way around it. The RAW competions will draw crowds too, but if you make everyone lift raw, I bet you will see the numbers of competitors and people watching drop. Hell, if you made it so you could only use a belt, I wouldn't be lifting myself because of my knees. I wrap with anything over 500 lbs and refuse to squat heavy without the knee support.
I say respect the lifters for what they do--the people lifting in the heavy weight gear are getting under some insane weight, the people in the single ply poly gear are flat out strong and the people lifting RAW are in a league all their own.
I really have he biggest issue with the depth of that squat. It wasn't anywhere near deep enough in my opinion. It should have been redlighted, but it wasn't. The judges passing lifts like this are the ones that need to be yelled at, not the lifters who are following the rules of the federation they lift in.
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The judges passing lifts like this are the ones that need to be yelled at, not the lifters who are following the rules of the federation they lift in.
agreed.
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The fact is, the multi-ply feds are going to be putting up the biggest numbers. The biggest numbers are going to draw the best competition. The best competition is going to draw the biggest paychecks (no matter how small they may actually be in powerlifting).
If you want to compete against the best, you're pretty much going to have to compete in those feds.
There are going to be a few people like Coan or Siders who don't compete there frequently, but the Kennerly's, the Bolton's, Beni's, Mendelson's, Mason's, Turtianian's, Kroczaleski's, and many many other great lifters are going to be doing the multi-ply meets.
There will always be raw shows, and things like the NERB's that allow those lifters to lift without equipment.
It's just how it is going to be.
And, I do think Graalf's squat was high. I just don't see the point in calling him a tool.
One thing: I cannot understand why you mention Turtiainen like he's some big time lifter.
Turtiainen failed to match the best Finnish elite lifters, so he jumped into the multi-ply fed djungle, also starting off his own brand, METAL, they make very high quality lifting gears BTW.
This example focuses on one important thing: The best lifters aren't necessarily lifting in these feds with ridiculous rules.
You claim people want to see big numbers.
If you were only allowed a belt for support, the numbers would go down, it would also mean that powerlifting wouldn't be a sport where fat pieces of shit compete at the Pizza buffet or have beer drinking contests during lifting seasons.
It would make the powerlifting a real sport, and only those who had the desire and talent, could prevail.
None of this weekend warrior shit, with once a week training and the occasional benchpress session.
Wade Hooper is dead serious about powerlifting.
He's an example for each and everyone to follow.
-Hedge
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One thing: I cannot understand why you mention Turtiainen like he's some big time lifter.
Turtiainen failed to match the best Finnish elite lifters, so he jumped into the multi-ply fed djungle, also starting off his own brand, METAL, they make very high quality lifting gears BTW.
This example focuses on one important thing: The best lifters aren't necessarily lifting in these feds with ridiculous rules.
You claim people want to see big numbers.
If you were only allowed a belt for support, the numbers would go down, it would also mean that powerlifting wouldn't be a sport where fat pieces of shit compete at the Pizza buffet or have beer drinking contests during lifting seasons.
It would make the powerlifting a real sport, and only those who had the desire and talent, could prevail.
None of this weekend warrior shit, with once a week training and the occasional benchpress session.
Wade Hooper is dead serious about powerlifting.
He's an example for each and everyone to follow.
-Hedge
I thought Ano totaled elite before he jumped to the WPO and part of the reason he jumped was because of that triceps tear and to market his clothing/gear...... .but I may be wrong.
Hedge, why not just make your statement by lifting with the gear you want to? If you don't like gear, then lift in a federation that doesn't allow it. Find competitions that only allow belts if thats what you want to do. Thats what I think is really the good thing about how powerlifting is set up right now with multiple federations and different degrees of gear that is allowed. (I know, I'm sorta grasping for straws with that statement, but bear with me). You can lift RAW, you can lift in single layer poly gear, or you can go all out and go for the canvass super-gear. Then you walk away knowing that you've done the best that you can do with the gear/equipment you have chosen to use. You've got that choice. I personally have never used more than a single layer pair of briefs and a poly suit and a single layer denim shirt (which I don't like so I'm switching back to poly). Why? Because its the choice I've made with the equipment I want to use.
The "fat pieces of shit" attitude is all wrong if you ask me too. No matter how you put it, fat doesn't lift the weight, muscle does. When have 275 lb and above powerlifters ever been considered "skinny"? ;)
To me the bottom line is that the lifts meet legitimacy for technique---ie that squat of Justins was too high in my opinion. It shouldn't have counted. Thats the real point of argument, not the fact he had on a canvass suit. He was following the rules of the federation he was lifting in in terms of gear used. You can't fault him for that. Fault the judges for white lighting a lift that shouldn't have passed.
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I thought Ano totaled elite before he jumped to the WPO and part of the reason he jumped was because of that triceps tear and to market his clothing/gear...... .but I may be wrong.
Hedge, why not just make your statement by lifting with the gear you want to? If you don't like gear, then lift in a federation that doesn't allow it. Find competitions that only allow belts if thats what you want to do. Thats what I think is really the good thing about how powerlifting is set up right now with multiple federations and different degrees of gear that is allowed. (I know, I'm sorta grasping for straws with that statement, but bear with me). You can lift RAW, you can lift in single layer poly gear, or you can go all out and go for the canvass super-gear. Then you walk away knowing that you've done the best that you can do with the gear/equipment you have chosen to use. You've got that choice. I personally have never used more than a single layer pair of briefs and a poly suit and a single layer denim shirt (which I don't like so I'm switching back to poly). Why? Because its the choice I've made with the equipment I want to use.
The "fat pieces of shit" attitude is all wrong if you ask me too. No matter how you put it, fat doesn't lift the weight, muscle does. When have 275 lb and above powerlifters ever been considered "skinny"? ;)
To me the bottom line is that the lifts meet legitimacy for technique---ie that squat of Justins was too high in my opinion. It shouldn't have counted. Thats the real point of argument, not the fact he had on a canvass suit. He was following the rules of the federation he was lifting in in terms of gear used. You can't fault him for that. Fault the judges for white lighting a lift that shouldn't have passed.
I see your point, I really do.
The main problem is that these feds that guys like Graalfs lift in allow higher squats to begin with.
USPF (not drug tested) and USAPL (drug tested) both requires below parallell squat depth.
Why change that?
Maybe shot put should be done with a 2 lbs lighter shot in some liberal federation? I'm sure you'd see lots of world records there then.
To me, Graalf's squat in itself is just a sign of the times. Something is wrong with powerlifting.
I am happy to see the recent support that RAW and single-ply contests has gained.
Also, let me clarify my statement regarding Ano somewhat: He's a good lifter no doubt. But not great.
As far as lifting gear goes, he's probably the best in the business today. METAL is easily the best lifting gear IMO.
I don't agree with lifting in a non-tested federation though. But that's a different issue.
Let me also address the fat piece of shit thing: I am of the belief that a guy with high bodyfat percentage gets more out of lifting gear than someone with low bodyfat.
I remember a few years ago, Westside had a fat kid they called "Tilt". He was obese like hell, weighed over 440 lbs, but with a lifting suit and benchpress shirt he was able to produce some big squats and benchpresses.
If the lifting gear was prohibited, or at least very limited, obesity wouldn't be favored, supported.
Powerlifting would be more athletic.
In short: More Kazmeiers - less Jeff Lewises.
-Hedge
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I see your point, I really do.
The main problem is that these feds that guys like Graalfs lift in allow higher squats to begin with.
USPF (not drug tested) and USAPL (drug tested) both requires below parallell squat depth.
Why change that?
Maybe shot put should be done with a 2 lbs lighter shot in some liberal federation? I'm sure you'd see lots of world records there then.
To me, Graalf's squat in itself is just a sign of the times. Something is wrong with powerlifting.
I am happy to see the recent support that RAW and single-ply contests has gained.
Also, let me clarify my statement regarding Ano somewhat: He's a good lifter no doubt. But not great.
As far as lifting gear goes, he's probably the best in the business today. METAL is easily the best lifting gear IMO.
I don't agree with lifting in a non-tested federation though. But that's a different issue.
Let me also address the fat piece of shit thing: I am of the belief that a guy with high bodyfat percentage gets more out of lifting gear than someone with low bodyfat.
I remember a few years ago, Westside had a fat kid they called "Tilt". He was obese like hell, weighed over 440 lbs, but with a lifting suit and benchpress shirt he was able to produce some big squats and benchpresses.
If the lifting gear was prohibited, or at least very limited, obesity wouldn't be favored, supported.
Powerlifting would be more athletic.
In short: More Kazmeiers - less Jeff Lewises.
-Hedge
Wasn't there some guy at the 'Bama APF contest up by Gadsden this last month who totaled over 2000 raw?
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Wasn't there some guy at the 'Bama APF contest up by Gadsden this last month who totaled over 2000 raw?
Yep, Beast Wilkerson.
-Hedge
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Yep, Beast Wilkerson.
-Hedge
Yeah, thats his name. That is impressive as hell.
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Let me also address the fat piece of shit thing: I am of the belief that a guy with high bodyfat percentage gets more out of lifting gear than someone with low bodyfat.
[self-pwning]
I'm fat, and I easily get a lot out of gear. Even if it is extremely loose (I can put on my F6 in about 20 seconds by myself) I get 50-60 Lbs out of it. This is without training for shirted benching. Doing that, the difference grows to 80-90 Lbs after only a few weeks. All because of compression of fat mass -- because it sure isn't my pussy triceps doing the pushing!
[/self-pwning]
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One thing: I cannot understand why you mention Turtiainen like he's some big time lifter.
Turtiainen failed to match the best Finnish elite lifters, so he jumped into the multi-ply fed djungle, also starting off his own brand, METAL, they make very high quality lifting gears BTW.
This example focuses on one important thing: The best lifters aren't necessarily lifting in these feds with ridiculous rules.
You claim people want to see big numbers.
If you were only allowed a belt for support, the numbers would go down, it would also mean that powerlifting wouldn't be a sport where fat pieces of shit compete at the Pizza buffet or have beer drinking contests during lifting seasons.
It would make the powerlifting a real sport, and only those who had the desire and talent, could prevail.
None of this weekend warrior shit, with once a week training and the occasional benchpress session.
Wade Hooper is dead serious about powerlifting.
He's an example for each and everyone to follow.
-Hedge
I don't quite know what you're trying to say?
Turtaininen is one of the best lifters at 275 in the WPO, which is what federation he lifts in.
I know you love Wade Hooper, you bring him up in every post. I think he's a great lifter too, one of my favorites to watch lift.
You choose what fed to compete in, and you compete under those rules. I have no problem at all with you not liking the equipment, not liking the judging, or anything.
But, he didn't pass his lift. The judges did.
If you thought Ronnie Coleman should have won the O last year, you don't start a thread about Jay Cutler stating "Epic TOOL doing bbing."
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I don't quite know what you're trying to say?
Turtaininen is one of the best lifters at 275 in the WPO, which is what federation he lifts in.
I know you love Wade Hooper, you bring him up in every post. I think he's a great lifter too, one of my favorites to watch lift.
You choose what fed to compete in, and you compete under those rules. I have no problem at all with you not liking the equipment, not liking the judging, or anything.
But, he didn't pass his lift. The judges did.
If you thought Ronnie Coleman should have won the O last year, you don't start a thread about Jay Cutler stating "Epic TOOL doing bbing."
Ok.
You got me.
I have a problem with lifters who chooses to compete in high-squat, multi-ply feds.
Their numbers dwarfs the numbers put up by Kaz, Kuc or Reinhoudt. You explain to me the logic in that.
-Hedge
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ok, ok. This is what it comes down to: When someone who is not from our tiny powerlifting world asks Gene Rychlak how much he bench's he says what? 1020lbs??...........or does he go into the long explanation of what a bench shirt is, how it works and what he can do without the shirt etc.? I doubt he says anything other than his "WR" number and this is what is wrong with the sport....
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ok, ok. This is what it comes down to: When someone who is not from our tiny powerlifting world asks Gene Rychlak how much he bench's he says what? 1020lbs??...........or does he go into the long explanation of what a bench shirt is, how it works and what he can do without the shirt etc.? I doubt he says anything other than his "WR" number and this is what is wrong with the sport....
can you say that with any authority? gene's a stand-up fella and i have zero doubts that he would at least offer a perfunctory explanation about his bench shirt.
there are two sports in my opinion: raw powerlifting and equipped powerlifting. both are incredibly difficult, both require a fuck ton of strength, and i agree that the judging is pretty hazy on lifts but i think that's not the fault of the gear or the lifters, it's judges who pass shit lifts, sort of the reverse of the USAPL dicks who redlight solid lifts.
and for the record, single-ply feds are for pussies who want to get the benefits from gear but still act like they're a part of the raw crowd. either take off the suit or quit pretending and pick up a t-rex.
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can you say that with any authority? gene's a stand-up fella and i have zero doubts that he would at least offer a perfunctory explanation about his bench shirt.
there are two sports in my opinion: raw powerlifting and equipped powerlifting. both are incredibly difficult, both require a fuck ton of strength, and i agree that the judging is pretty hazy on lifts but i think that's not the fault of the gear or the lifters, it's judges who pass shit lifts, sort of the reverse of the USAPL dicks who redlight solid lifts.
and for the record, single-ply feds are for pussies who want to get the benefits from gear but still act like they're a part of the raw crowd. either take off the suit or quit pretending and pick up a t-rex.
Single-ply is for pussies?
I agree that we would be much better off in the IPF if it was belt-only.
Some steps are taken in that direction, with IPF limiting the sturdyness of the material in the shirts next year, next step is doing the same in the suits and the wraps.
But I don't see how single-ply is pussy. The heaviest part of the lift is the bottom, the hole. That's what the APF and WPO has tried to eliminate with extra equipment and high squats.
And as far as "USAPL dicks" redlighting solid lifts... How many USAPL meets have you attended?
One day you will too be a fan of powerlifting with as little equippment as possible.
I'm sure you could become a good raw benchpresser as well. It just takes time for tall people to fill out the frame.
-Hedge
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And as far as "USAPL dicks" redlighting solid lifts... How many USAPL meets have you attended?
Indeed. Maybe Dutch refs are unusually lax, but I have never seen this in the past. And I've been to quite a number of meets. In my IPF lifting days I have only been red-lighted 3 times, and all three were my own fault.
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Another non sense thread."It aint powerlifting if it aint raw",thats the single dumbest assanine,stupid thing Ive ever read.Ed Coan isnt powerlifting?Capt. Kirk isnt powerlifting?Brad Gillingham isnt powerlifting?This debate is silly.The "single ply of today,is like the double ply of a few years ago.Take a look at the USAPL bench numbers.You mean to tell me these guys just got so freaking strong?It isnt the gear?Geeze,there was a time when a 2300 pound total in the IPF would make you a God,now its ordinarry.I guess the "single ply" gear has nothing to with it.
Now,a couple of other facts.The USPF allows 2.5 meter wraps and they should.How is it fair that a guy like Wade Hooper gets to wear the same size wraps as a Jeff Lewis?Hooper would get three times as many revolutions out of the wrap then Lewis.Why penalize the bigger lifter.Number two,the USPF allows a squat bar.Why make a huge guy squeeze under a regular Texas powerbar.This sport is for big people,not midgets.
Lastly,Justins lift was high,but why blame him?Lifters lift,judges judge.Get pissed at the slack judging not the lifter.If it was red lighted no one would have had a peep to say about it.However,this is the reason,Im going back to the USPF.Im sick of the internet icons who NEVER have the balls to compete but bash those who do.Guys who couldnt squat 400,never mind 900-1200 KNOCKING BIG LIFTS.However,even if I lift well in the USPF,Im sure some internet idiot will still find a reason to bash.
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Another non sense thread."It aint powerlifting if it aint raw",thats the single dumbest assanine,stupid thing Ive ever read.Ed Coan isnt powerlifting?Capt. Kirk isnt powerlifting?Brad Gillingham isnt powerlifting?This debate is silly.The "single ply of today,is like the double ply of a few years ago.Take a look at the USAPL bench numbers.You mean to tell me these guys just got so freaking strong?It isnt the gear?Geeze,there was a time when a 2300 pound total in the IPF would make you a God,now its ordinarry.I guess the "single ply" gear has nothing to with it.
Single ply and raw isn't the same thing. You know that.
I would definitely be in favor of heavier regulation of the equipment. Lets get back to less material, more lifting. That way, the lifts and records of our time would be comparable to the lifts of Karwoski, Hamman, Kuc and the other greats.
Now,a couple of other facts.The USPF allows 2.5 meter wraps and they should.How is it fair that a guy like Wade Hooper gets to wear the same size wraps as a Jeff Lewis?Hooper would get three times as many revolutions out of the wrap then Lewis.Why penalize the bigger lifter.Number two,the USPF allows a squat bar.Why make a huge guy squeeze under a regular Texas powerbar.This sport is for big people,not midgets.
As far as the wraps goes.. A fat guy with a big belly like Jeff Lewis, will get a lot more from the suit. Do you think lighter lifters should be allowed to wear double-ply and briefs to compensate for the lack of fat on their bodies?
Lastly,Justins lift was high,but why blame him?
The judges are to blame as well. But ultimately, it's about where a lifter decides to compete. Is it in a federation like USPF or USAPL with real squat depth or is it in some bogus lifting organisation that just wants to be able to post record big numbers?
Lifters lift,judges judge.Get pissed at the slack judging not the lifter.If it was red lighted no one would have had a peep to say about it.However,this is the reason,Im going back to the USPF.Im sick of the internet icons who NEVER have the balls to compete but bash those who do.Guys who couldnt squat 400,never mind 900-1200 KNOCKING BIG LIFTS.However,even if I lift well in the USPF,Im sure some internet idiot will still find a reason to bash.
Great to see you going back to the USPF. I'm sure you'll see many more follow suit, sick of the multi-ply's and the extra equipment.
Good luck at your meet, I'm sure you'll do well. At least in the deadlift. ;)
-Hedge
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I cant speak for anyone else,but I left because the USPF died in CT.There were no meets.I then lifted in the USPF in Maine,but Russ Barlow switched his meets to APF.I certainly would NEVER lift in a drug free fed,as I think thats isnt powerlifting,so what choice did I have.Fly to West Virginia to lift in a local meet?The APF and IPA are a hell of a lot of fun with a bunch of good guys.Every time I have atteneded a USAPL meet,all I meet are assholes.Sorry,Id rather have fun.
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Single-ply is for pussies?
I agree that we would be much better off in the IPF if it was belt-only.
Some steps are taken in that direction, with IPF limiting the sturdyness of the material in the shirts next year, next step is doing the same in the suits and the wraps.
But I don't see how single-ply is pussy. The heaviest part of the lift is the bottom, the hole. That's what the APF and WPO has tried to eliminate with extra equipment and high squats.
And as far as "USAPL dicks" redlighting solid lifts... How many USAPL meets have you attended?
One day you will too be a fan of powerlifting with as little equippment as possible.
I'm sure you could become a good raw benchpresser as well. It just takes time for tall people to fill out the frame.
-Hedge
zack, why are you taking potshots and assumptions? moreover your post doesn't make sense because i said that i train raw and enjoy training raw. i even said i think it should be raw or multi-ply, when the hell did i say i don't like unequipped powerlifting? ???
yes, single-ply feds are for pussies. they want to have their cake and eat it too, by way of having less equipment than the WPO/APF lifters, but still getting support and thus inflated numbers. a titan F6 gives more support than old double denims but somehow kenneth sandvick's bench record (which is probably broken by now) was considered more "legit" than gene's. it's still equipped and it's still a false number.
the only difference is that with single-ply feds the amount of support is heavily skewed toward the smaller/weaker lifters. why? simple: single-ply equipment has an upper limit of support it can give. if you have a 315 raw max, that tight-ass F6 is going to make your shirted max almost impossible to touch with (i know a guy who couldn't get weight to his chest with one, yes single ply), whereas a guy like siders is hardly going to struggle to get his top weight down.
as a result, weaker dudes get a FAR higher percentage of support than the stronger, making the whole thing unfair as hell. in a multi ply fed, everyone gets to use gear that's as tight or as strong as you can get it while still allowing you to (ideally) hit parallel or touch your chest. any complaints on that front is the fault of the judges, not the fed itself.
and i've seen enough videos from USAPL meets where a guy paused on his chest and got the lift, but it was redlighted for an imperceptible uneven lockout. or a dive-bomb squat way below parallel that had no business not getting all three whites. randall truscott ran into the same problem at an IPF meet, going about six inches below and the lift getting turned down. total BS.
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zack, why are you taking potshots and assumptions? moreover your post doesn't make sense because i said that i train raw and enjoy training raw. i even said i think it should be raw or multi-ply, when the hell did i say i don't like unequipped powerlifting? ???
yes, single-ply feds are for pussies. they want to have their cake and eat it too, by way of having less equipment than the WPO/APF lifters, but still getting support and thus inflated numbers. a titan F6 gives more support than old double denims but somehow kenneth sandvick's bench record (which is probably broken by now) was considered more "legit" than gene's. it's still equipped and it's still a false number.
the only difference is that with single-ply feds the amount of support is heavily skewed toward the smaller/weaker lifters. why? simple: single-ply equipment has an upper limit of support it can give. if you have a 315 raw max, that tight-ass F6 is going to make your shirted max almost impossible to touch with (i know a guy who couldn't get weight to his chest with one, yes single ply), whereas a guy like siders is hardly going to struggle to get his top weight down.
as a result, weaker dudes get a FAR higher percentage of support than the stronger, making the whole thing unfair as hell. in a multi ply fed, everyone gets to use gear that's as tight or as strong as you can get it while still allowing you to (ideally) hit parallel or touch your chest. any complaints on that front is the fault of the judges, not the fed itself.
and i've seen enough videos from USAPL meets where a guy paused on his chest and got the lift, but it was redlighted for an imperceptible uneven lockout. or a dive-bomb squat way below parallel that had no business not getting all three whites. randall truscott ran into the same problem at an IPF meet, going about six inches below and the lift getting turned down. total BS.
How do you mean I take pot shots?
And what assumptions? I wondered what you based your red lighting statement on, that was all.
As far as the uneven lockout rule, I am in favor of removing it altogether actually. I wouldn't be surprised if it was. There has been a few rule changes as of late in the USAPL, some done to get rid of the extreme arches (like press command), some done to make the sport more logical.
I don't agree with all of these changes, but as a whole, the IPF is moving in the right direction.
IPF in Sweden is generally very consistant. If there are red lights, you will definitely know why.
It's the same depths as back in the 70-80's and the 90's.
-Hedge
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How do you mean I take pot shots?
And what assumptions? I wondered what you based your red lighting statement on, that was all.
As far as the uneven lockout rule, I am in favor of removing it altogether actually. I wouldn't be surprised if it was. There has been a few rule changes as of late in the USAPL, some done to get rid of the extreme arches (like press command), some done to make the sport more logical.
I don't agree with all of these changes, but as a whole, the IPF is moving in the right direction.
IPF in Sweden is generally very consistant. If there are red lights, you will definitely know why.
It's the same depths as back in the 70-80's and the 90's.
-Hedge
you made assumptions on what type of powerlifting i'm a fan of. i was merely saying that either you go APF style or raw, somehow you took that to believe that i only endorse all-out gear feds despite my earlier admission that i enjoy raw lifting better.
the uneven lockout rule is a good one, but it should only apply to severe cases. minor wobble is unavoidable because no one has a symmetrical body. it's sort of like hitching your pull. if you lean back a lot it'll touch your thighs, but as long as you aren't using the lean to take the weight off you're good.
i'm not a fan of the arch removal, though. not because it inflates numbers, after all the best shirted and raw benchers have far less arch than many (chabot, henderson, rychlak, kennelly), but because not arching kills my shoulders.
belly benching only really comes about in geared lifting, there aren't many lifters who touch their stomachs in a raw press. siders at the NERB was right on his sternum when he got the 625 and he does a belly sink frequently in training. i bench to the bottom of my sternum roughly but in a shirt it was lower than that.
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you made assumptions on what type of powerlifting i'm a fan of. i was merely saying that either you go APF style or raw, somehow you took that to believe that i only endorse all-out gear feds despite my earlier admission that i enjoy raw lifting better.
the uneven lockout rule is a good one, but it should only apply to severe cases. minor wobble is unavoidable because no one has a symmetrical body. it's sort of like hitching your pull. if you lean back a lot it'll touch your thighs, but as long as you aren't using the lean to take the weight off you're good.
i'm not a fan of the arch removal, though. not because it inflates numbers, after all the best shirted and raw benchers have far less arch than many (chabot, henderson, rychlak, kennelly), but because not arching kills my shoulders.
belly benching only really comes about in geared lifting, there aren't many lifters who touch their stomachs in a raw press. siders at the NERB was right on his sternum when he got the 625 and he does a belly sink frequently in training. i bench to the bottom of my sternum roughly but in a shirt it was lower than that.
The reason I want to see changes in arching, is to get rid of the extreme arches of some of the Japanese female lifters. They've managed to arch so extreme, that it's basically only a slight twist of their shoulders and elbows to get the bar to touch. But the kind of arching you do, that's perfectly fine IMO.
As far as the uneven lockout, or not allowing for lowering the bar, it doesn't make the lift any easier. So why not allow it?
When the general public see a powerlifting meet, it should be fairly easy to understand why a lift isn't passed IMO.
-Hedge
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The reason I want to see changes in arching, is to get rid of the extreme arches of some of the Japanese female lifters. They've managed to arch so extreme, that it's basically only a slight twist of their shoulders and elbows to get the bar to touch. But the kind of arching you do, that's perfectly fine IMO.
It really seems to me that the extreme arch that some of these women do actually decreases the maximum weights they can use. It shortens the stroke, but it also decreases the mechanical advantages of the lats and the legs. Not to mention the question of if their glutes are on the bench or not.
There was one woman (I cant remember her name, but I think she was Japanese or Chinese) who really looked to me like she had her glutes off the bench, but it got passed in an IPF contest.
I wish I could remember her name..........
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The reason I want to see changes in arching, is to get rid of the extreme arches of some of the Japanese female lifters. They've managed to arch so extreme, that it's basically only a slight twist of their shoulders and elbows to get the bar to touch. But the kind of arching you do, that's perfectly fine IMO.
As far as the uneven lockout, or not allowing for lowering the bar, it doesn't make the lift any easier. So why not allow it?
When the general public see a powerlifting meet, it should be fairly easy to understand why a lift isn't passed IMO.
-Hedge
sounds good to me. i do agree that it does get rather extreme, but it's tricky to make a rule for that. as far as i can tell that's where the belly rule came into place but outside of that it's hard to make a rule that limits the amount of bend in one's back.
i'm ambivalent on uneven lockout, but on that second point about understanding why a lift isn't passed, but just by their own devices they don't see a huge difference between a paused bench and touch and go, nor do they understand what a hitch is.
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It really seems to me that the extreme arch that some of these women do actually decreases the maximum weights they can use. It shortens the stroke, but it also decreases the mechanical advantages of the lats and the legs. Not to mention the question of if their glutes are on the bench or not.
There was one woman (I cant remember her name, but I think she was Japanese or Chinese) who really looked to me like she had her glutes off the bench, but it got passed in an IPF contest.
I wish I could remember her name..........
Yukako Fukushima?
She got redlighted through all her three lifts at the world champs in Stockholm in 2005, for not touching her ass in the bench.
She would not be able at all to lift the kind of weights she does (250+ lbs in the 105 lbs class) if she would have to lift off the weight on her own.
It's a bit of a problem. Taking away the hand off will make the benchpress quite difficult, but it would remove the extreme arches.
We're talking extreme arching, not big arches like most benchpressers do.
-Hedge
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take away the handoff and my max is gonna go way down. i take a handoff for anything over 275 because it's physically impossible for me to do so myself while maintaining my shoulder blades pinched back and any semblance of an arch in my lower back. it'd be like forcing squatters to lift the bar off the supports while leaning forward at a 30 degree angle, your body is just at a horrendous place mechanically when it comes to taking the bar off the supports. it's not like a walkout, because in a walkout you still pick the bar up from a mechanically advantageous position, it's just getting into your stance that's tricky then.
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Taking away the handoff is the worst idea I've ever heard.
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Taking away the handoff is the worst idea I've ever heard.
I love it. Come on: it's about lifting a weight out of a rack at arms length. How hard can that be?
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I think the handoff should stay, and I'm not sure about if that will be a new rule, I know it was up for discussion at least.
The lift will be very difficult without the handoff, then again, somehow it does make sense that you should do the lift by yourself, from the start.
It would be interesting to see a RAW federation incorporate such a rule. I'm sure lifters would get accustumed after awhile, the numbers would definitely go down at first, but I'm not so sure that injuries would increase.
But like I said, I would be interested to see it on a trial basis only.
-Hedge
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I think the handoff should stay, and I'm not sure about if that will be a new rule, I know it was up for discussion at least.
The lift will be very difficult without the handoff, then again, somehow it does make sense that you should do the lift by yourself, from the start.
It would be interesting to see a RAW federation incorporate such a rule. I'm sure lifters would get accustumed after awhile, the numbers would definitely go down at first, but I'm not so sure that injuries would increase.
But like I said, I would be interested to see it on a trial basis only.
-Hedge
What is so difficult about not getting a hand-off? Seems to me most people use it as a crutch. Now, I am not a great bencher by anyone's standards, but can easily unrack 450+ AND stay in position. Note: my raw max at the moment is only 370-ish.
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Some guys have short arms and in some competitions they can't move the bench rack height so you must get a hand off. i don't see a problem with it, as long as you "press" the weight you are doing a bench press.
some gyms don't have adjustable bench rack height either so if you have short arms how the fuck are you supposed to unrack heavy weight in a safe manner with your shoulders back and a good arch?
it's really a non-issue.
8)
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Some guys have short arms and in some competitions they can't move the bench rack height so you must get a hand off. i don't see a problem with it, as long as you "press" the weight you are doing a bench press.
some gyms don't have adjustable bench rack height either so if you have short arms how the fuck are you supposed to unrack heavy weight in a safe manner with your shoulders back and a good arch?
it's really a non-issue.
8)
Come think of it, that rule was never put into effect in the IPF. There's been a few changes though, to get rid of the Extreme Japs.
Eg, the press signal again being used, the head has to touch and the whole sole has to be touching.
Things like that.
Some things have been made more liberal, eg uneven press is allowed, it's only the lockout that has to be even. I'm sure that may change in the future as well.
In the squat and deadlift, you're allowed to pause the bar on the way up, but you're not allowed to lower it, ie hitch it. That's a change for the better.
-Hedge
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Come think of it, that rule was never put into effect in the IPF. There's been a few changes though, to get rid of the Extreme Japs.
Eg, the press signal again being used, the head has to touch and the whole sole has to be touching.
Things like that.
Some things have been made more liberal, eg uneven press is allowed, it's only the lockout that has to be even. I'm sure that may change in the future as well.
In the squat and deadlift, you're allowed to pause the bar on the way up, but you're not allowed to lower it, ie hitch it. That's a change for the better.
-Hedge
I dont see the point of not allowing your head to raise. I can understand the flat feet as that will make the extreme arching almost impossible but the head thing doesnt make sense.
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I dont see the point of not allowing your head to raise. I can understand the flat feet as that will make the extreme arching almost impossible but the head thing doesnt make sense.
I've been thinking about the reason for it during the last 5 months, and haven't been able to come up with a good explanation. ;D
My guess is that this rule will be removed next year or so though, because it doesn't make sense. Nobody gets it. It's not you or I who are stupid. ;)
-Hedge
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Since it was mentioned in this thread, I thought I'd post Mike "Mule" Miller's squat as well:
He later asked for the record to be removed. Standup move.
-Hedge
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What is so difficult about not getting a hand-off? Seems to me most people use it as a crutch. Now, I am not a great bencher by anyone's standards, but can easily unrack 450+ AND stay in position. Note: my raw max at the moment is only 370-ish.
well... how is it a crutch? if it's a raw press, what's the problem? good for you being able to unrack 450+ and stay in position. i can't, but i'm still lowering the bar to my chest and pressing it up all on my own.
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well... how is it a crutch? if it's a raw press, what's the problem? good for you being able to unrack 450+ and stay in position. i can't, but i'm still lowering the bar to my chest and pressing it up all on my own.
Well, looking at it from that position I would assume that you also prefer the monolift? (No attack; serious question)
I prefer as little interference as possible. I do not want to be a strong squatter only when I have a monolift at my disposal. Nor do I want to be a strong bencher only when I have my favorite hand-off guy. I want to be strong always and under all conditions. Meets, gyms, wherever. The bigger the reliance on assistance, the weaker I will be when I suddenly do not have that assistance.
Plus it's easy at meets: I just show up all alone and don't have to worry about handling at all. :)
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Sorry. The handoff in a bench press is not the same as a monolift. The squat is a lift that you should be able to walk the weight out that you squat with. A handoff in the bench is a safety issue. Not taking a handoff on a max bench attempt is just plain stupid. Your shoulders and whole body for that matter, are at a mechanical disadvantage taking the bar off a rack at that angle. Raw or shirted. ANYONE should be able to walk out what they can squat. That is my opinion and that is why I only compete in push/pull meets now. There is too much banter over what is a legal squat and what is legal equipment....Let alone the Monolift and guys that couldnt squat 500 raw but put up 800 or over squats. I think its bullshit.........Handoff s in the benchpress are perfectly acceptable and should be part of any feds rules. The Monolift is going to stay but I dont agree with it.
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A handoff in the bench is a safety issue. Not taking a handoff on a max bench attempt is just plain stupid. Your shoulders and whole body for that matter, are at a mechanical disadvantage taking the bar off a rack at that angle. Raw or shirted.
Nonsense. I will agree that 99.99% of all lifters (PL or otherwise) have no idea how to properly take the bar out of the rack. But ignorance in no excuse. It is definitely possible, but it has to be trained. It is a skill like everything else. By "mechanical disadvantage" I am assuming you mean shoulder rotation? With proper technique your shoulder will start off in the lockout position. It can be learnt, just like anything else.
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Nonsense. I will agree that 99.99% of all lifters (PL or otherwise) have no idea how to properly take the bar out of the rack. But ignorance in no excuse. It is definitely possible, but it has to be trained. It is a skill like everything else. By "mechanical disadvantage" I am assuming you mean shoulder rotation? With proper technique your shoulder will start off in the lockout position. It can be learnt, just like anything else.
Or he could mean a disadvantage of the small pectoralis minor with arms over head, increasing the likelyhood of a tear.
Look, anyone can un-rack 300lbs. That's not the thing. If you think Mendy should have to pull 700lbs off the rack on a raw attempt, you're thinking about two different worlds.
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Nonsense. I will agree that 99.99% of all lifters (PL or otherwise) have no idea how to properly take the bar out of the rack. But ignorance in no excuse. It is definitely possible, but it has to be trained. It is a skill like everything else. By "mechanical disadvantage" I am assuming you mean shoulder rotation? With proper technique your shoulder will start off in the lockout position. It can be learnt, just like anything else.
THat is completely false. Almost any bench that you use you will have to actually press the bar a little to get it out of the uprights.
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Also you are pulling a loaded bar over your face. That is a safety issue.
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Well, you do of course have to press the bar up a little bit when unracking it. However, please note I mentioned shoulder rotation, not arm extension. Two completely different things. And I can't see straightening your arms the top 2" as something dangerous.
And when you do it properly you do not pull the bar over your face. At least: not in the sense that you rotate you shoulders.
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Look. When going for a max single in the bench, shirted or raw, it makes much more sense to have somone hand the bar off to you. I also cant see how it would take away from the lift since you still have to bring the weight down to the body and press it back up then rerack it. The monolift however takes so much out of the actual squat.
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Well, you do of course have to press the bar up a little bit when unracking it. However, please note I mentioned shoulder rotation, not arm extension. Two completely different things. And I can't see straightening your arms the top 2" as something dangerous.
And when you do it properly you do not pull the bar over your face. At least: not in the sense that you rotate you shoulders.
Do you have any understanding of anatomy and physiology?
Have you even heard the word "biomechanics?"
If by "rotate your shoulders," you mean the acromioclavicular joint, then you most certainly understand how dangerous that is, and what a mechanical disadvantage that joint is in during that situation.
If by "rotate your shoulders," you mean something else...then you don't understand the physiology of the shoulder joint, and I can just skip over your posts, understanding you are ignorant in the matter.
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Do you have any understanding of anatomy and physiology?
Have you even heard the word "biomechanics?"
If by "rotate your shoulders," you mean the acromioclavicular joint, then you most certainly understand how dangerous that is, and what a mechanical disadvantage that joint is in during that situation.
If by "rotate your shoulders," you mean something else...then you don't understand the physiology of the shoulder joint, and I can just skip over your posts, understanding you are ignorant in the matter.
DING DONG! slammed!
end of story, doing your own liftoff and pulling the bar over your face is incredibly dangerous at higher weights. i've seen only the rarest exceptions.
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I see reading comprehension is not considered an asset on this board. Where did I say anything about having to rotate shoulders IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM? Did I not just say (several times, IIRC) that this should NOT be done?
Unfortunately I cannot send you two a large-print booklet with chewable pages, so I will give you a very simple description:
1. Get into position
2. Lift hips from bench
(the angle of torso and arms should end up at the precise pressing angle when hips are at their high point)
3. Extend arms
4. Replace hips on bench.
Now really think about what I am saying here. Get your buddy/mom to do this exact same thing, and see if you can grasp the basic idea. When doing this, there is (boy, do I hate repeating myself...) NO rotation of the acromioclavicular joint, NO rotation of anything else even vaguely related to shoulders. They act as a fulcrum; nothing more, nothing less.
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WOW that's dangerous and stupid. phreak, it is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to move the bar without shoulder rotation, that's what Majestic was telling you.
unless you honestly believe that it's a good idea to unrack the bar with your ass off the bench, which would have a neat three-pronged effect.
1) your lift would be disqualified from absolutely every federation in existence.
2) your back/legs would be compromised, in addition to the sheer stupidity of trying to move your hips up and down while holding a max lift.
3) you'll never be able to set your feet because of the strain on your body trying to support the weight.
but no, if you want a completely illegal lift that will never get passed in any meet you ever enter that will simultaneously open you up to a myriad of injuries (not to mention throwing your angles way off) then go for it. this advice is just BAFFLINGLY stupid. ???
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I see reading comprehension is not considered an asset on this board. Where did I say anything about having to rotate shoulders IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM? Did I not just say (several times, IIRC) that this should NOT be done?
Unfortunately I cannot send you two a large-print booklet with chewable pages, so I will give you a very simple description:
1. Get into position
2. Lift hips from bench
(the angle of torso and arms should end up at the precise pressing angle when hips are at their high point)
3. Extend arms
4. Replace hips on bench.
Now really think about what I am saying here. Get your buddy/mom to do this exact same thing, and see if you can grasp the basic idea. When doing this, there is (boy, do I hate repeating myself...) NO rotation of the acromioclavicular joint, NO rotation of anything else even vaguely related to shoulders. They act as a fulcrum; nothing more, nothing less.
there will be rotation even with your idea. you cannot rotate your body enough to eliminate shoulder rotation and if you could that would be very dangerous.
just agree to disagree, you can't change the rule book by yourself.
8)
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I see reading comprehension is not considered an asset on this board. Where did I say anything about having to rotate shoulders IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM? Did I not just say (several times, IIRC) that this should NOT be done?
Unfortunately I cannot send you two a large-print booklet with chewable pages, so I will give you a very simple description:
1. Get into position
2. Lift hips from bench
(the angle of torso and arms should end up at the precise pressing angle when hips are at their high point)
3. Extend arms
4. Replace hips on bench.
Now really think about what I am saying here. Get your buddy/mom to do this exact same thing, and see if you can grasp the basic idea. When doing this, there is (boy, do I hate repeating myself...) NO rotation of the acromioclavicular joint, NO rotation of anything else even vaguely related to shoulders. They act as a fulcrum; nothing more, nothing less.
Theres no way in hell I could get the bar off the racks considering what I bench and my arm length.
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Theres no way in hell I could get the bar off the racks considering what I bench and my arm length.
That is exactly my point. some of the under 200 pound guys simply can't unrack heavy weights on a regular non adjustable bench.
i help guys with shirts every saturday and without an adjustable bench it is impossible for most guys to unrack and sometimes rack the weight. my buddy weighs 178 and i have to help him rack the weight because his arms are too short to get it over the lip.
now, with an adjustable rack height you can work around this.
8)
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Check out Ove Lehto in this video. He doesn't use handoffs even in competition! I am pro handoff, but thought this would be of interest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-32fJ-Rr31Q (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-32fJ-Rr31Q)
The squatting and deadlifts are also impressive.
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Mike Miller showing how it's done in the IPA:
&NR=1
-Hedge