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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Religious Debates & Threads => Topic started by: OzmO on May 19, 2007, 07:46:13 AM



Title: The "sons" of God?
Post by: OzmO on May 19, 2007, 07:46:13 AM
I've been curious about this. 


Genesis 6:2-4

That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. ............ when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them.


What does all mean?

What's the "Christian" take on this?

P.S.  I really am curious loco.  But based on anyone's answer ti may lead into a debate  ;)


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: Butterbean on May 19, 2007, 08:00:26 AM
I would like loco's take also but here is what my NIV Ryrie study bible has as footnotes to these scriptures:

(first the NIV version of these scriptures)

Genesis 6:1-4

...........the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with [a] man forever, for he is mortal; his days will be a hundred and twenty years."
The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.


My bible's footnotes:  6:2  the sons of God.  Possibly the Godly line of Seth, or ungodly kings and kinglets of that day, or, more likely, a group of fallen angels (demons) who, because of this unique sin, were confined (see notes on 2Pet 2:4 and Jude 6).  The phrase "sons of God" is used in the O.T. almost exclusively of angels.  they married Angels do not procreate after their kind but if these were angels, they did on this unique occasion cohabit w/human women to produce offspring.

6:3   My Spirit will not contend w/man forever.  Two interpretations possible:  1) The reference is to the Holy Spirit striving in the sense of judging or executing judgment on mankind for it's sinfulness.  2)  The human spirit that God placed in human beings would not always abide; i.e., mankind was doomed to death.  Man was given 120 years after this warning before the judgment of the Flood.

6:4   Nephilim.   From a root meaning "to fall"; i.e., to fall upon others because they were men of strength.  Evidently they were in the earth before the marriages of Gen 6:2, and were not the offspring of those marriage from which cam the heroes (military men) and men of renown (of wealth or power).


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: OzmO on May 19, 2007, 09:05:41 AM
I wonder if there is any reference to Angels being sons of God in other parts of the bible? 

Becuase of there isn't, i think we need to take the literal meaning of the text and not an assumed or interpreted meaning.  Because when we do that we are trying to fit it into our beliefs.

to me Genesis is one of most interesting books because it talks of the first days of man.


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: Al-Gebra on May 19, 2007, 01:37:08 PM
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=149715.0


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: tu_holmes on May 19, 2007, 01:41:56 PM
It's because it's stolen from the Pagan beliefs of "Many" gods... just like Norse, Greek, and Roman mythology.

The sons of God (Zeus, Odin, Saturn) who were also gods, mated with earthly women... It's all stories.


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: Butterbean on May 19, 2007, 01:49:59 PM
I wonder if there is any reference to Angels being sons of God in other parts of the bible? 

Becuase of there isn't, i think we need to take the literal meaning of the text and not an assumed or interpreted meaning.  Because when we do that we are trying to fit it into our beliefs.




Job 38:7 (King James Version)

When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy


Job 38:7 (New International Version)

while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy

Footnotes:

Job 38:7 Hebrew the sons of God





Job 1:6 (King James Version)

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Job 1:6 (New International Version)

One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them.

Footnotes:

Job 1:6 Hebrew the sons of God





Job 2:1 (King James Version)

Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.


Job 2:1 (New International Version)
On another day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them to present himself before him.

Footnotes:

Job 2:1 Hebrew the sons of God
 


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: Al-Gebra on May 19, 2007, 01:56:35 PM


yo stella, how come there weren't any daughters of God?  what's a fellow got to do if he wants to hook up w a female angel?


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: Al-Gebra on May 19, 2007, 02:04:59 PM
http://www.stevequayle.com/Giants/index2.html

nephilim = numenoreans


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: OzmO on May 19, 2007, 07:34:24 PM
Job 38:7 (King James Version)

When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy


Job 38:7 (New International Version)

while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy

Footnotes:

Job 38:7 Hebrew the sons of God





Job 1:6 (King James Version)

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Job 1:6 (New International Version)

One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them.

Footnotes:

Job 1:6 Hebrew the sons of God





Job 2:1 (King James Version)

Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.


Job 2:1 (New International Version)
On another day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them to present himself before him.

Footnotes:

Job 2:1 Hebrew the sons of God
 


It only goes to angels in translation.   And wow, angels can reproduce with humans?


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: Al-Gebra on May 19, 2007, 07:41:44 PM
Earth angel, earth angel
  Will you be mine?
  My darling dear
  Love you for all time
  I'm just a fool
  A fool in love with you

  Earth angel, earth angel
  The one I adore
  Love you forever and ever more
  I'm just a fool
  A fool in love with you

  I fell for you and I knew
  The vision of your love-loveliness
  I hoped and I pray that someday
  I'll be the vision of your hap-happiness oh, oh, oh, OH!

  Earth angel, earth angel
  Please be mine
  My darling dear
  Love you for all time
  I'm just a fool
  A fool in love with you-ou-ou

  I fell for you and I knew
  The vision of your loveliness
  I hope and pray that someday
  That I'll be the vision of your happiness


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: Al-Gebra on May 19, 2007, 08:39:08 PM
picture of a descendant of the nephilim. hth.


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: Parker on May 20, 2007, 07:32:45 AM

It only goes to angels in translation.   And wow, angels can reproduce with humans?

I read this as "aliens" and their experiments on human reproduction . Could be wrong, but in order for a animal to reproduce with another, they have to be of the same species, or very close related. In order for Angels to reproduce with humans, Angels must be a closely related if not humans themselves.


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: loco on May 21, 2007, 10:47:15 AM
I've been curious about this. 


Genesis 6:2-4

That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. ............ when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them.


What does all mean?

What's the "Christian" take on this?

P.S.  I really am curious loco.  But based on anyone's answer ti may lead into a debate  ;)

Hey, OzmO!

This is my take on it:

Genesis 6:2-4 (New International Version)
2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3 Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal; his days will be a hundred and twenty years."
 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

 "sons of God" means angels as STella has shown above.  Nephilim is an ancient Aramaic word which nobody knows today exactly what it means.  It could mean "giant" or "fallen one".  Satan and his angels(demons) are fallen angels.  If you read in verse 4, it looks like the fallen angels(Nephilim) were already on the earth when the "sons of God"(other angels, not Nephilin) "went to the daughters of men and had children by them."  Then it says "They were the heroes of old, men of renown." 
 
The next verses may be talking about these angels who had sex with women. 
 
2 Peter 2:4
4For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;
 
Jude 1:6
6And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

Looks like their punishment was to be put into spiritual prisons where they are disconnected from reality, both spiritual and physical.  It looks like between Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection, Jesus' spirit went to this spiritual prison to preach to these demons, probably to show them and tell them that He, Jesus, had just been victorious in offering Himself for the sins of all humans.  Unlike Satan and his demons, these imprisoned angels would not have known what was going on here on earth and would not have known that God had sent His Son to die for the sins of humans.

Does the following look like Greek mythology? 

Genesis 6:4
"The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons(Zeus?) of God went to the daughters(Alcmene?) of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown(Hercules?)."

Yes, it does look like Greek mythology.  But thanks to history and archeology we know that Genesis 6:4 is much more ancient than Greek mythology.  So Genesis 6:4 could not possibly have come from Greek mythology, but it would be the other way around, that some of Greek mythology is based on Genesis 6:4.  People who witnessed these "heroes of old, men of renown" would have passed this information from generation to generation, to Noah's children, from Noah's children to those who would later become the Babylonians, then to the Persians, then to the Greeks and eventually to the Romans.  Many have theorized that mythology can contain grains of truth in the form of a highly distorted "folk memory".  But what was recorded in Genesis 6 is what truly happened and not mythology.


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: Butterbean on May 22, 2007, 05:12:20 AM

yo stella, how come there weren't any daughters of God?  what's a fellow got to do if he wants to hook up w a female angel?
Umm  I don't know the answers to either of these questions!


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: Butterbean on May 22, 2007, 05:16:07 AM

.   And wow, angels can reproduce with humans?
Apparently if those were angels, it happened in that "unique instance."

I read this as "aliens" and their experiments on human reproduction . Could be wrong, but in order for a animal to reproduce with another, they have to be of the same species, or very close related. In order for Angels to reproduce with humans, Angels must be a closely related if not humans themselves.

I think that's really interesting Parker.  Some people believe that UFOs are demonic.  They believe UFOs contain "aliens" which are actually demons.   

Loco, have you ever heard of the aliens = demons angle?


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: loco on May 22, 2007, 05:32:58 AM
Loco, have you ever heard of the aliens = demons angle?

Hi STella! No, I've never heard that one before.  When it comes to life in other planets, I'm indifferent.  The Bible does not mention it, that I'm aware of.  And we have no proof that they exist.  So they may or may not exist.


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: OzmO on May 22, 2007, 09:42:42 AM
Hey, OzmO!

This is my take on it:

Genesis 6:2-4 (New International Version)
2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3 Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal; his days will be a hundred and twenty years."
 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

 "sons of God" means angels as STella has shown above.  Nephilim is an ancient Aramaic word which nobody knows today exactly what it means.  It could mean "giant" or "fallen one".  Satan and his angels(demons) are fallen angels.  If you read in verse 4, it looks like the fallen angels(Nephilim) were already on the earth when the "sons of God"(other angels, not Nephilin) "went to the daughters of men and had children by them."  Then it says "They were the heroes of old, men of renown." 
 
The next verses may be talking about these angels who had sex with women. 
 
2 Peter 2:4
4For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;
 
Jude 1:6
6And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

Looks like their punishment was to be put into spiritual prisons where they are disconnected from reality, both spiritual and physical.  It looks like between Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection, Jesus' spirit went to this spiritual prison to preach to these demons, probably to show them and tell them that He, Jesus, had just been victorious in offering Himself for the sins of all humans.  Unlike Satan and his demons, these imprisoned angels would not have known what was going on here on earth and would not have known that God had sent His Son to die for the sins of humans.

Does the following look like Greek mythology? 

Genesis 6:4
"The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons(Zeus?) of God went to the daughters(Alcmene?) of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown(Hercules?)."

Yes, it does look like Greek mythology.  But thanks to history and archeology we know that Genesis 6:4 is much more ancient than Greek mythology.  So Genesis 6:4 could not possibly have come from Greek mythology, but it would be the other way around, that some of Greek mythology is based on Genesis 6:4.  People who witnessed these "heroes of old, men of renown" would have passed this information from generation to generation, to Noah's children, from Noah's children to those who would later become the Babylonians, then to the Greeks and eventually to the Romans.  Many have theorized that mythology can contain grains of truth in the form of a highly distorted "folk memory".  But what was recorded in Genesis 6 is what truly happened and not mythology.

Wouldn't that make the earth just 13k old then?

Tracing generations back from Jesus to Adam would be 4000 years plus 2000 years and 7000 years to make the heavens and earth?


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: loco on May 22, 2007, 09:46:01 AM
Wouldn't that make the earth just 13k old then?

Tracing generations back from Jesus to Adam would be 4000 years plus 2000 years and 7000 years to make the heavens and earth?

I don't know, OzmO.  I'm not one of those who say the earth is only about 6,000 years old.  And I don't try to use the Bible to calculate how old the earth is. 


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: Dos Equis on May 22, 2007, 09:49:52 AM
I don't know, OzmO.  I'm not one of those who say the earth is only about 6,000 years old.  And I don't try to use the Bible to calculate how old the earth is. 

I agree.  The Bible doesn't say how old the earth is or when "the beginning" was when the earth was without form, etc. 


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: OzmO on May 22, 2007, 09:51:32 AM
I don't know, OzmO.  I'm not one of those who say the earth is only about 6,000 years old.  And I don't try to use the Bible to calculate how old the earth is. 

So those calculations aren't correct based on who begot who?


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: loco on May 22, 2007, 10:09:55 AM
So those calculations aren't correct based on who begot who?

What calculations?  Are you referring to the recorded ages?  Yes, those are correct. 

Did you do the calculations yourself, OzmO?  Because you would have to go through the entire Old Testament, checking some outside historical references as well.  Whoever tried to use the Bible to calculate the earth's age could have missed a few things in the process.  You also would need a good understanding of the Jewish calendar.

Take Jesus alone.  Tradition says that Jesus was born in 1AD, but scholars place his birth at 8BC to 6BC.  That is just one person whose birth might be off by 9 years. You still have a lot more people to go.  Good luck!  Let me know what you come up with.


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: OzmO on May 22, 2007, 11:02:29 AM
What calculations?  Are you referring to the recorded ages?  Yes, those are correct. 

Did you do the calculations yourself, OzmO?  Because you would have to go through the entire Old Testament, checking some outside historical references as well.  Whoever tried to use the Bible to calculate the earth's age could have missed a few things in the process.  You also would need a good understanding of the Jewish calendar.

Take Jesus alone.  Tradition says that Jesus was born in 1AD, but scholars place his birth at 8BC to 6BC.  That is just one person whose birth might be off by 9 years. You still have a lot more people to go.  Good luck!  Let me know what you come up with.

I'm sensing a "smart a**" tone here when you ask me if i did those calculations.  Of course i didn't do them.   And you know that.  Or maybe you are trying to belittle my assertion.....  I donno.

But someone did, i can;t remember who,  i'll find it later.  And i'm pretty sure you've heard of it before.   The research indicated Adam and Eve were created around 4000 years BC.  He did this by counting generations outlined in the bible,  It won;t be 100% accurate as you have indicated with different calenders, but it will be int he ballpark plus or minus a few hundreds which is tiny when compared to how old the earth is.  But the point here is, or the question rather that will end up being a point is:

How old is the earth based on the Bible?   If God made the earth in 7 days and 1 day is a thousand years then the earth is 7000 years  old plus the creation of Adam until now.

Is that correct according to the bible?


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: loco on May 22, 2007, 11:11:43 AM
I'm sensing a "smart a**" tone here when you ask me if i did those calculations.  Of course i didn't do them.   And you know that.  Or maybe you are trying to belittle my assertion.....  I donno.

Not at all, OzmO.  You misunderstood me.  I know that many people have gone through the Bible and attempted to calculate the age of the earth.  Some have come up with 6,000 years, but you came up with 13,000 which is more than double.  So I was wondering if you have been reading the OT and came up with this yourself.  The Bible does not say how old the earth is and I don't believe that it intended to.  But using the information that is there to try to calculate this is interesting, but I believe that there is a lot of room for error in this. 


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: OzmO on May 22, 2007, 11:13:45 AM
Not at all, OzmO.  You misunderstood me.  I know that many people have gone through the Bible and attempted to calculate the age of the earth.  Some have come up with 6,000 years, but you came up with 13,000 which is more than double.  So I was wondering if you have been reading the OT and came up with this yourself.  The Bible does not say how old the earth is and I don't believe that it intended to.  But using the information that is there to try to calculate this is interesting, but I believe that there is a lot of room for error in this. 


Ok  :).


But it does say how old it is.  just not directly.  Doesn't it say:  it created it 7 days including Adam?  so if you count from Adam......  then you get 6000-13,000 years or in between right?


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: loco on May 22, 2007, 11:17:49 AM

Ok  :).


But it does say how old it is.  just not directly.  Doesn't it say:  it created it 7 days including Adam?  so if you count from Adam......  then you get 6000-13,000 years or in between right?

I don't know.  I've never looked into this myself.  Maybe I will my next time around reading the entire OT.  Maybe I'll come up with 3,000 or maybe 28,000 years.     ;D

Maybe other Christians on the board have an answer/opinion.


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: OzmO on May 22, 2007, 11:23:21 AM
I don't know.  I've never looked into this myself.  Maybe I will my next time around reading the entire OT.  Maybe I'll come up with 3,000 or maybe 28,000 years.     ;D

Maybe other Christians on the board have an answer/opinion.

What makes that whole thing questionable is science.   

For example if God made the stars in the week he did (7000 years) only a small percentage of the stars we see at night would be visible due to how far they are away and the speed of light.

So basically,  if you are saying 28,000 years or even 100,000 years,  it makes either the Bible 100% correct or most of science 100% wrong.


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: Colossus_500 on May 22, 2007, 11:30:09 AM
I've been curious about this. 


Genesis 6:2-4

That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. ............ when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them.


What does all mean?

What's the "Christian" take on this?

P.S.  I really am curious loco.  But based on anyone's answer ti may lead into a debate  ;)
I found this commentary from biblegateway.  I'm not sure who the commentator is though. 

The wickedness of the world which provoked God's wrath.

The most remarkable thing concerning the old world, is the destroying of it by the deluge, or flood. We are told of the abounding iniquity of that wicked world: God's just wrath, and his holy resolution to punish it. In all ages there has been a peculiar curse of God upon marriages between professors of true religion and its avowed enemies. The evil example of the ungodly party corrupts or greatly hurts the other. Family religion is put an end to, and the children are trained up according to the worldly maxims of that parent who is without the fear of God. If we profess to be the sons and daughters of the Lord Almighty, we must not marry without his consent. He will never give his blessing, if we prefer beauty, wit, wealth, or worldly honours, to faith and holiness. The Spirit of God strove with men, by sending Enoch, Noah, and perhaps others, to preach to them; by waiting to be gracious, notwithstanding their rebellions; and by exciting alarm and convictions in their consciences. But the Lord declared that his Spirit should not thus strive with men always; he would leave them to be hardened in sin, and ripened for destruction. This he determined on, because man was flesh: not only frail and feeble, but carnal and depraved; having misused the noble powers of his soul to gratify his corrupt inclinations. God sees all the wickedness that is among the children of men; it cannot be hid from him now; and if it be not repented of, it shall be made known by him shortly. The wickedness of a people is great indeed, when noted sinners are men renowned among them. Very much sin was committed in all places, by all sorts of people. Any one might see that the wickedness of man was great: but God saw that every imagination, or purpose, of the thoughts of man's heart, was only evil continually. This was the bitter root, the corrupt spring. The heart was deceitful and desperately wicked; the principles were corrupt; the habits and dispositions evil. Their designs and devices were wicked. They did evil deliberately, contriving how to do mischief. There was no good among them. God saw man's wickedness as one injured and wronged by it. He saw it as a tender father sees the folly and stubbornness of a rebellious and disobedient child, which grieves him, and makes him wish he had been childless. The words here used are remarkable; they are used after the manner of men, and do not mean that God can change, or be unhappy. Does God thus hate our sin?

And shall not we be grieved to the heart for it? Oh that we may look on Him whom we have grieved, and mourn! God repented that he had made man; but we never find him repent that he redeemed man. God resolves to destroy man: the original word is very striking, to ?I will wipe off man from the earth, to ? as dirt or filth is wiped off from a place which should be clean, and is thrown to the dunghill, the proper place for it. God speaks of man as his own creature, when he resolves upon his punishment. Those forfeit their lives who do not answer the end of their living. God speaks of resolution concerning men, after his Spirit had been long striving with them in vain. None are punished by the justice of God, but those who hate to be reformed by the grace of God. (Ge 6:8-11)


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: loco on May 22, 2007, 11:35:25 AM
What makes that whole thing questionable is science.   

For example if God made the stars in the week he did (7000 years) only a small percentage of the stars we see at night would be visible due to how far they are away and the speed of light.

So basically,  if you are saying 28,000 years or even 100,000 years,  it makes either the Bible 100% correct or most of science 100% wrong.

Where do you get 7000 years?  Didn't God create the earth along with a multitude of stars in 6 days?  Don't stars die and new ones are born?


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: OzmO on May 23, 2007, 12:04:44 PM
Where do you get 7000 years?  Didn't God create the earth along with a multitude of stars in 6 days?  Don't stars die and new ones are born?

Doesn't it say in the Bible a day to God is 1000 years?


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: tu_holmes on May 23, 2007, 12:21:56 PM
Doesn't it say in the Bible a day to God is 1000 years?

No, I think that's something recent people have made up actually... If there's a passage stating that, I've never seen it.


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: Dos Equis on May 23, 2007, 02:57:47 PM
Doesn't it say in the Bible a day to God is 1000 years?

You're probably thinking of 2 Peter 3:8:  "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." 


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: OzmO on May 23, 2007, 04:54:22 PM
so when in the Bible, God says he made man, earth and the heavens in 6 days he either meant 1000 years or 6 days right?


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: Dos Equis on May 23, 2007, 05:07:58 PM
so when in the Bible, God says he made man, earth and the heavens in 6 days he either meant 1000 years or 6 days right?

I doubt it.  The creation story says the evening and the morning were the first day, second day, etc. 


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: OzmO on May 23, 2007, 05:56:43 PM
I doubt it.  The creation story says the evening and the morning were the first day, second day, etc. 

i don't understand what you are saying.  Did he create the heavens and the earth and man in 6 days?


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: Dos Equis on May 23, 2007, 06:19:30 PM
i don't understand what you are saying.  Did he create the heavens and the earth and man in 6 days?

Yes and no.  The story starts with the earth already in existence.  It says (paraphrasing) that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth and the earth was without form, etc.  It doesn't say when "the beginning" was.  Could have been 4.5 billion years ago, like many geologists, etc. believe. 

Then it talks about God creating light, sun, moon, animals, etc.  And after each "day," it says the evening and the morning were the first day, second, and so on.  So, the creation of things during the evening and morning = six day creation.

Not everyone agrees with me and I'm not entirely sure what I believe when it comes to the age of the earth itself.  Some believe the earth itself was created at the same time the six-creation started.   


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: tu_holmes on May 23, 2007, 06:28:11 PM
Yes and no.  The story starts with the earth already in existence.  It says (paraphrasing) that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth and the earth was without form, etc.  It doesn't say when "the beginning" was.  Could have been 4.5 billion years ago, like many geologists, etc. believe. 

Then it talks about God creating light, sun, moon, animals, etc.  And after each "day," it says the evening and the morning were the first day, second, and so on.  So, the creation of things during the evening and morning = six day creation.

Not everyone agrees with me and I'm not entirely sure what I believe when it comes to the age of the earth itself.  Some believe the earth itself was created at the same time the six-creation started.   

So you're saying that only 7000 years ago did we get grass and animals?

Wow... That's not what Carbon dating shows.


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: Dos Equis on May 23, 2007, 06:34:35 PM
So you're saying that only 7000 years ago did we get grass and animals?

Wow... That's not what Carbon dating shows.

I didn't say anything about 7000 years.  Where are you getting that from? 

Carbon dating deals with grass and animals? 


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: tu_holmes on May 23, 2007, 06:42:06 PM
I didn't say anything about 7000 years.  Where are you getting that from? 

Carbon dating deals with grass and animals? 

Carbon dating deals with ANYTHING fossilized.

ie... Grass and Animals.


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: Dos Equis on May 23, 2007, 06:47:08 PM
Carbon dating deals with ANYTHING fossilized.

ie... Grass and Animals.

I don't remember much about it.  It has been many moons since I took a geology class.  I recall that it was one of the most boring classes I’ve ever taken, which helps explain why I don’t remember much.   


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: tu_holmes on May 23, 2007, 06:53:10 PM
I don't remember much about it.  It has been many moons since I took a geology class.  I recall that it was one of the most boring classes I?ve ever taken, which helps explain why I don?t remember much.   

Well, rocks are just... well.... rocks.


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: Dos Equis on May 23, 2007, 06:58:30 PM
Well, rocks are just... well.... rocks.

Tell me about it. 


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: loco on May 24, 2007, 04:11:04 AM
You're probably thinking of 2 Peter 3:8:  "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." 


Yes and no.  The story starts with the earth already in existence.  It says (paraphrasing) that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth and the earth was without form, etc.  It doesn't say when "the beginning" was.  Could have been 4.5 billion years ago, like many geologists, etc. believe. 

Then it talks about God creating light, sun, moon, animals, etc.  And after each "day," it says the evening and the morning were the first day, second, and so on.  So, the creation of things during the evening and morning = six day creation.

Not everyone agrees with me and I'm not entirely sure what I believe when it comes to the age of the earth itself.  Some believe the earth itself was created at the same time the six-creation started.   

I'm with Beach Bum on this one.   :)


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: OzmO on May 24, 2007, 07:21:36 AM
Hmmm,  so all this wasn't created in 6 days? 


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: Samourai Pizzacat on May 25, 2007, 02:55:38 AM
Well, rocks are just... well.... rocks.
rocks tell so much, but it's a tough learning curve.


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: bigandbrolic on June 09, 2007, 09:44:28 PM
i read a book a few years ago expanding on the Genesis 1:1-2 and please forgive me if I don't explain exactly the way the author intended.

He stated in Gen 1:1 God created earth and between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:2 is the whole story of the expulsion of Lucifer and the Fallen angesl from Heaven (Ezekiel 28:2). thus causing God to destroy the earth he had created.

in Gen 1:11 and 12 the author explains the fact of grass and trees yielding after his ownkind was showing that they existed before and just being reformed. 

Please excuse me if I didn't get the authors explanation out, its been a few years and I really cannot remember the name of the book. 


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: Hugo Chavez on September 09, 2011, 02:15:10 PM
Carbon dating deals with ANYTHING fossilized.

ie... Grass and Animals.
for the record, carbon dating doesn't deal with anything fossilized but can be used for grass and animals.  Carbon dating has a short range so most fossils are to old for carbon dating. Which definitely puts them older than 7000 years ago lol...


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: tu_holmes on September 09, 2011, 02:20:07 PM
for the record, carbon dating doesn't deal with anything fossilized but can be used for grass and animals.  Carbon dating has a short range so most fossils are to old for carbon dating. Which definitely puts them older than 7000 years ago lol...

Then I must be mistaken... If I recall my physics class, it was anything fossilized.

That said, way older than 7000 years.


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: Hugo Chavez on September 09, 2011, 02:32:09 PM
Then I must be mistaken... If I recall my physics class, it was anything fossilized.

That said, way older than 7000 years.
The only reason it can't measure fossils that are really old is because of the half life of the carbon 14 isotope.  Since the dating method uses the rate of decay, it's useless after the carbon 14 has fully decayed.  The absolute range for carbon dating is something like 60,000 years.  All older organic life than that won't work with carbon dating.  but there are other dating methods with other isotopes.


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: tu_holmes on September 09, 2011, 04:34:40 PM
The only reason it can't measure fossils that are really old is because of the half life of the carbon 14 isotope.  Since the dating method uses the rate of decay, it's useless after the carbon 14 has fully decayed.  The absolute range for carbon dating is something like 60,000 years.  All older organic life than that won't work with carbon dating.  but there are other dating methods with other isotopes.

True... Either way, it certainly is much older than 6,000 years.


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: loco on September 10, 2011, 08:06:53 AM
tu_holmes as usual talking about stuff he knows nothing about and making claims he can't back up.  A true champion at self-owning.    ;D

tu_holmes, you do this here and in many other threads.  Stick to making claims about stuff you actually do know something about, and stay away from trashing the Bible and Christianity.  I hope at least you have learned something from all your self-owning on the subject.

Doesn't it say in the Bible a day to God is 1000 years?

No, I think that's something recent people have made up actually... If there's a passage stating that, I've never seen it.

You're probably thinking of 2 Peter 3:8:  "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."  

Carbon dating deals with ANYTHING fossilized.

ie... Grass and Animals.

for the record, carbon dating doesn't deal with anything fossilized but can be used for grass and animals.  Carbon dating has a short range so most fossils are to old for carbon dating. Which definitely puts them older than 7000 years ago lol...


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: OzmO on September 10, 2011, 08:13:03 AM
 ???


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: loco on September 10, 2011, 08:18:24 AM
???

Either Hugo or tu_holmes bumped this thread for some strange reason.  It's clear in this thread and in other threads that no Christian here is claiming that the earth is 6,000 or 7,000 years old. 


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: tu_holmes on September 10, 2011, 09:32:55 AM
tu_holmes as usual talking about stuff he knows nothing about and making claims he can't back up.  A true champion at self-owning.    ;D

tu_holmes, you do this here and in many other threads.  Stick to making claims about stuff you actually do know something about, and stay away from trashing the Bible and Christianity.  I hope at least you have learned something from all your self-owning on the subject.


Actually, I stick to my claim about fossilization. It may not be perfectly accurate beyond some many thousands of years, but it can still be used.


Let me make sure I get this right... You are saying that the passage in the bible about God being 1000 years old is correct... Well, holy crap!!! The Bible must be some perfect Book that knows EVERYTHING!!!

OH MY WORD!!! HOW WILL I POSSIBLY SURVIVE WITHOUT KNOWING EVERY PASSAGE OF THE BIBLE!!!!!?!?!?!?!

Dude, please... Yes, because being "self-owned" on getbig is the end of my existence. ::)

Oh brother.

As a reformed Catholic / Christian who spent the better part of his youth in Christian private schools, I think I am more than capable of giving my opinion on the ridiculousness of the Christian faith.

If your faith is so strong, why does my lack of it bother you so much?



Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: loco on September 12, 2011, 04:25:16 AM
Actually, I stick to my claim about fossilization. It may not be perfectly accurate beyond some many thousands of years, but it can still be used.


Let me make sure I get this right... You are saying that the passage in the bible about God being 1000 years old is correct... Well, holy crap!!! The Bible must be some perfect Book that knows EVERYTHING!!!

OH MY WORD!!! HOW WILL I POSSIBLY SURVIVE WITHOUT KNOWING EVERY PASSAGE OF THE BIBLE!!!!!?!?!?!?!

Dude, please... Yes, because being "self-owned" on getbig is the end of my existence. ::)

Oh brother.

As a reformed Catholic / Christian who spent the better part of his youth in Christian private schools, I think I am more than capable of giving my opinion on the ridiculousness of the Christian faith.

If your faith is so strong, why does my lack of it bother you so much?



Sorry tu_holmes!  I did not know you used to be Catholic.  Did the Catholic church give you a hard time with your divorce?   :(

I actually think you are a level headed guy.  I have no doubts that if we had met outside of getbig we would get along just fine and we might actually be even friends!  

I do enjoy your posts about women, marriage and divorce.  You do seem to know about all that from experience.  I don't always agree with those posts, but I do enjoy reading them.   :)


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: tu_holmes on September 12, 2011, 07:12:06 AM
Sorry tu_holmes!  I did not know you used to be Catholic.  Did the Catholic church give you a hard time with your divorce?   :(

I actually think you are a level headed guy.  I have no doubts that if we had met outside of getbig we would get along just fine and we might actually be even friends! 

I do enjoy your posts about women, marriage and divorce.  You do seem to know about all that from experience.  I don't always agree with those posts, but I do enjoy reading them.   :)

The Church doesn't have any say in it, but my Catholic friends are not fans of my divorce.

Also, to pick nits... That passage doesn't say that God is a 1000 years old... It says that one day is like a thousand years... That's not giving his age, so I'm not sure where I was owned there.


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: loco on September 12, 2011, 07:42:30 AM
The Church doesn't have any say in it, but my Catholic friends are not fans of my divorce.

Also, to pick nits... That passage doesn't say that God is a 1000 years old... It says that one day is like a thousand years... That's not giving his age, so I'm not sure where I was owned there.

Then I think you misunderstood OzmO's question.  He wasn't asking if the Bible says that God is 1,000 years old.  You are correct that is not in the Bible, but it wasn't what OzmO was asking.  OzmO asked if the Bible says that to God, a day is like a 1,000 years.  OzmO was correct that is found in the Bible.

Doesn't it say in the Bible a day to God is 1000 years?


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: tu_holmes on September 12, 2011, 09:29:22 AM
Then I think you misunderstood OzmO's question.  He wasn't asking if the Bible says that God is 1,000 years old.  You are correct that is not in the Bible, but it wasn't what OzmO was asking.  OzmO asked if the Bible says that to God, a day is like a 1,000 years.  OzmO was correct that is found in the Bible.


Then I completely misread his question and that's on me.


Title: Re: The "sons" of God?
Post by: OTHstrong on October 18, 2011, 01:22:38 AM
so when in the Bible, God says he made man, earth and the heavens in 6 days he either meant 1000 years or 6 days right?
No, the Bible is perfectly clear, there is no way the 6 day creation is 6000 years or 1 day 1000 years during the creation and I will tell you why in the very simple concept of photosynthesis, you see plants where made on day 3 and the sun was made on day 4. If this was a 1000 year span then that means the plants went a 1000 years without sunlight, certainly not. And yes OsmO is correct if you trace back the generations from Adam to Jesus you will come up with 4000 years.