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Title: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: 24KT on August 15, 2007, 08:53:20 AM
Dog Rescued After Being Locked In Stifling Car For Hours
Tuesday July 31, 2007
CityNews.ca Staff

It's the kind of stupid and senseless action that has no excuse. Toronto Humane Society officials were forced to break in a car window Tuesday afternoon to rescue a dog left sweltering in an oven-like car. Investigators were called to a parking lot in the King and Jameson area around 2pm where they were confronted with the four-legged friend in an obviously dangerous condition. It's believed he'd been sealed in a locked up car with no windows open for several hours. The temperature inside the vehicle had reached in excess of 70C. (175 degees F)

Cruelty investigator Tre Smith was sure the dog was near death and didn't have time to wait for the owners to return. So without hesitating, he broke open the window to reach the limp animal. "I could see through this window and there's a large breed Rottweiler, about 110 pounds, slumped over the back seat with his legs up and a blank stare forward, death stare we call it, foaming from the mouth and he was non-responsive. So I immediately smashed the window and opened the car doors and dragged the dog out and brought it onto the pavement."

Bystanders came by with buckets of cold water and poured them on the dog, hoping to revive him. Andrew McGowan was one of them. "He was laying right here, and we were pouring water on it slowly, making sure it was still stimulated," he remembers.

Veterinarians tended to the dog, which was unresponsive as he was rushed to THS headquarters on River St. and given oxygen and IV on arrival. Officials say it's too soon to know if the animal suffered brain damage and they'll be watching him carefully for at least the next week. But so far, the signs are better than they'd dared to hope. 

But this sad story doesn't end there. When the owner finally emerged after hearing his car alarm go off, Smith managed to handcuff him to the vehicle while police were called. The accused, who will likely be charged with cruelty to animals, also apparently suffered for his alleged actions.

It appears an enraged witness may have attacked him as he was stuck shackled to his car and he was bleeding when officers arrived to take him away. Smith insists he had no choice but to leave the suspect where he was. "The police hadn't got here just yet but they were almost here, and I had to leave because the dog was non-responsive, had stopped breathing and I had to stimulate the dog just to bring him back. So I had to leave for the life of the dog."

Charges against the person who inflicted the beating may be pending.

Humane Society officials say it's a perfect reminder that if it's too hot for you, it's too hot for them. And dogs, cats or any pet should never be left in a car during the summer heat, even for a few minutes. "This happens all the time," Smith complains. "There's ten or fifteen calls a day of people leaving animals in cars. So do us all a favour and your animal and yourself. Leave your animals at home."



Rally Planned To Support Suspended Humane Society Inspector
Tuesday August 14, 2007
CityNews.ca Staff

(http://www.citynews.ca/images/aug1407-tresmithandcyrus.jpg) (http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_13779.aspx)  <--click me to see video

To animal lovers, activists, and thousands of everyday people who have offered their support, Toronto Humane Society inspector Tre Smith is a hero. 

After all, if it weren't for his brave actions on July 31st, a Rottweiller named Cyrus almost certainly would have perished in the sweltering car his owner locked him in.  But Smith arrived on the scene and didn't hesitate to smash the car's window and pull the dog, which was hovering near death, out of the vehicle where he could begin his valiant attempt to save its life.  But in the confusion that followed, Smith had to make a tough choice.  The dog's owner arrived on the scene, and according to Smith, became confrontational.  Smith knew he had only seconds to spare if he hoped to save Cyrus, and chose to cuff the dog's owner and leave the scene to attend to the animal.  While he was gone, the man became a sitting duck for angry bystanders, and was allegedly assaulted. 

Two weeks later, the Ontario SPCA suspended Smith's agent license pending an internal review.  He can still work at the Humane Society, but can't investigate animal cruelty cases.

Smith was dumfounded by the decision, and so were his supporters, who have organized a rally on Wednesday in honour of their hero. 

In the meantime, Smith is still trying to come to terms with what's transpired.

"To be honest with you, I'm not sure (why I was suspended). I really don't know," he told Ann Rohmer during Animal House Calls on Tuesday.  "I received an e-mail sent out to every O.S.P.C.A. member across the province and alerting them to the fact that a Toronto Humane Society agent has been suspended due to his actions on July 31st, that's pretty much where it ended."

"I'm absolutely in the dark," he adds.  "From what I understand they've hired an independent person, a retired O.P.P. constable, to look into the events on that day."

And while his future may be uncertain, Smith is sure of one thing --- he has no regrets about his past.  In the end, Cyrus was saved, and to Smith, that's all that matters.

"When we brought him into the clinic we were surprised he was going to last the night and fortunately he did and he's thrived and got a lot better, (but) he'll never be the same dog he was before this incident.

"They haven't actually given him a final diagnosis but they're definitely seeing mild brain damage, his attention span isn't the same. He doesn't always respond to his name. I've been told by the vets that he is suffering from mild brain damage."

According to Smith, timing was everything, and if he'd been delayed dealing with the owner, the dog would have died.

"I don't think he could have survived any longer. He was seconds if not milliseconds away from crossing over. He had already released himself which is a tell tale sign that the organs are shutting down."

"I've been to hundreds of dog and car calls and you always prepare yourself (but) that was one of the most horrible things I've seen to date, seeing this beautiful Rottweiler slumped over the backseat gasping for his last bit of air. There's a lot going on. Emotions run deep when that happens but you have to keep them under control and remember that you're there to save and an animal's life."


Tre Smith Rally:
Wednesday
Starts at Toronto Humane Society
11 River St. @ 11:30am
Procession drives slowly up Highway 404 to Newmarket OSPCA Headquarters
16586 Woodbine Avenue
Newmarket.

************************************

Right now Tre is under suspension with pay, pending the outcome of an investigation. The controversy surrounds his putting the life of a human in danger. As a peace officer, with powers of arrest, when you place someone under arrest, you are required to deliver that person to safe custody. Tre left him handcuffed to his vehicle, in the hot sun for hours, while angry bystanders used him as a punching bag. Being handcuffed to his vehicle, he was left vulnerable and unable to defend himself. When police did eventually arrive, the dog's owner was bleeding from his assault.


Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: rockyfortune on August 15, 2007, 09:00:46 AM
hehe..good..the should have stuck the owner in an unventilated car for an hour and watched him shit his pants.


Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: Al-Gebra on August 15, 2007, 09:07:23 AM
hehe..good..the should have stuck the owner in an unventilated car for an hour and watched him shit his pants.


 Why?


Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: 24KT on August 15, 2007, 09:10:22 AM
hehe..good..the should have stuck the owner in an unventilated car for an hour and watched him shit his pants.


That was my gut level reaction as well. Infact, when I first heard the story 2 weeks ago, I thought that was what he did, ...but in retrospect, I know that would be improper. The question at issue is... does the safety and well being of an animal, supercede the safety and well being of a human being? Have we taken animal rights to such an extent that we disregard the safety of humans?

I personally don't think it was necessary to cuff the owner to the car and leavehim there. They knew who he was. They could have picked him up later. The question is: was it proper to leave a man handcuffed and vulnerable like that?

I think he was wrong? He was definately a hero for saving Cyrus' life, ...but he should not have left the dog's owner handcuffed. I hope he gets a reprimand and will be able to return to active duty as an animal cruelty investigator.


Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: Vet on August 15, 2007, 09:22:48 AM
That was my gut level reaction as well. Infact, when I first heard the story 2 weeks ago, I thought that was what he did, ...but in retrospect, I know that would be improper. The question at issue is... does the safety and well being of an animal, supercede the safety and well being of a human being? Have we taken animal rights to such an extent that we disregard the safety of humans?

I personally don't think it was necessary to cuff the owner to the car and leavehim there. They knew who he was. They could have picked him up later. The question is: was it proper to leave a man handcuffed and vulnerable like that?

I think he was wrong? He was definately a hero for saving Cyrus' life, ...but he should not have left the dog's owner handcuffed. I hope he gets a reprimand and will be able to return to active duty as an animal cruelty investigator.

No the better question is where the hell were the police officers?  They shoudl have been called at the same time as the animal control officer---especially AFTER he broke the window.  Thats who i'd place the blame on, not the animal control officer. 

The second question is where did they go to treat the dog?  The newsreport makes it sound as if they were right there, yet the guy got beat up.  if he observed the assault, then he's at fault.  If he left the scene, then he was at fault---he could have taken the owner cuffed with him.  If he was standing right there and the crowd was that unruly, where the hell were the cops?


Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: rockyfortune on August 15, 2007, 09:53:58 AM
That was my gut level reaction as well. Infact, when I first heard the story 2 weeks ago, I thought that was what he did, ...but in retrospect, I know that would be improper. The question at issue is... does the safety and well being of an animal, supercede the safety and well being of a human being? Have we taken animal rights to such an extent that we disregard the safety of humans?

I personally don't think it was necessary to cuff the owner to the car and leavehim there. They knew who he was. They could have picked him up later. The question is: was it proper to leave a man handcuffed and vulnerable like that?

I think he was wrong? He was definately a hero for saving Cyrus' life, ...but he should not have left the dog's owner handcuffed. I hope he gets a reprimand and will be able to return to active duty as an animal cruelty investigator.



nice arm chair quarterbacking jaguar...he's an animal control officer and is employed to look after the animal not this dumbass who left his dog in an unventilated car..as the ACO said..the police didn't get there and he had to go...he should have uncuffed the guy and left with the dog but he didn't...so the guy got roughed up..maybe next time he'll realize that being a careless asshole doesn't get you anywhere in life.


Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: rockyfortune on August 15, 2007, 10:01:11 AM
The question at issue is... does the safety and well being of an animal, supercede the safety and well being of a human being? Have we taken animal rights to such an extent that we disregard the safety of humans?


the dog was dying jag..did you read that part? he's an animal control officer--that's his job...I guess you expect him to sit there and watch the animal die...



Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: rockyfortune on August 15, 2007, 10:02:36 AM
Why?



people learn only by example mr. gebra...that's why.



Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: ~flower~ on August 15, 2007, 10:03:56 AM
The way I read the story was he handcuffed the guy and was working on the unresponsive dog.  He couldn't work on the dog and watch the guy. 

 The assaulter should be held responsible. 

 
   


Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: ~flower~ on August 15, 2007, 10:05:32 AM
I personally don't think it was necessary to cuff the owner to the car and leavehim there. They knew who he was. They could have picked him up later. The question is: was it proper to leave a man handcuffed and vulnerable like that?

 I don't think his intention was to leave him vulnerable.  Unless he encouraged the person to go up and beat on him.  


Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: Al-Gebra on August 15, 2007, 10:06:38 AM


people learn only by example mr. gebra...that's why.



 i got that part. it was the wanting tre smith to  "watch him shit his pants" part that i didn't.


Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: ~flower~ on August 15, 2007, 10:07:51 AM
Tre left him handcuffed to his vehicle, in the hot sun for hours, while angry bystanders used him as a punching bag. Being handcuffed to his vehicle, he was left vulnerable and unable to defend himself. When police did eventually arrive, the dog's owner was bleeding from his assault.


 It took the police HOURS to respond?    Ok, I am reversing here, if he was left handcuffed, alone, for hours, then that was not right.  He could of taken him with him if he had too, or yes, let him go to be picked up later. 


Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: ~flower~ on August 15, 2007, 10:08:17 AM
i got that part. it was the wanting tre smith to  "watch him shit his pants" part that i didn't.

 quit it  >:(


Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: rockyfortune on August 15, 2007, 10:11:09 AM
i got that part. it was the wanting tre smith to  "watch him shit his pants" part that i didn't.


mob rule gets overblown sometimes...


Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: Vet on August 15, 2007, 11:56:30 AM
Tre left him handcuffed to his vehicle, in the hot sun for hours, while angry bystanders used him as a punching bag. Being handcuffed to his vehicle, he was left vulnerable and unable to defend himself. When police did eventually arrive, the dog's owner was bleeding from his assault.


 It took the police HOURS to respond?    Ok, I am reversing here, if he was left handcuffed, alone, for hours, then that was not right.  He could of taken him with him if he had too, or yes, let him go to be picked up later. 

Thats why I asked my question---where the hell were the cops? 


Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: Al-Gebra on August 15, 2007, 11:59:41 AM
quit it  >:(

 I was just asking rockyfortune a question  ???


Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: ~flower~ on August 15, 2007, 12:19:45 PM
I was just asking rockyfortune a question  ???

 I'm TEAL!!!! !     Princess L is purple -  PICK ANOTHER COLOR!~~~   >:(


Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: Hedgehog on August 15, 2007, 01:00:22 PM
I'm TEAL!!!! !   

And he is teal as well...


Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: 24KT on August 16, 2007, 08:14:26 AM
The question at issue is... does the safety and well being of an animal, supercede the safety and well being of a human being? Have we taken animal rights to such an extent that we disregard the safety of humans?


the dog was dying jag..did you read that part? he's an animal control officer--that's his job...I guess you expect him to sit there and watch the animal die...


Not at all, ...but understand this guy was not Bin Laden, and he wasn't profiled on America's Most Wanted.
I understand he is an animal rescue officer, ...however, the question remains did he prioritize an animals wellbeing over a humans?

I could be a bloody cement worker tasked with the job of laying cement in sidewalks, but if someone falls into the cement mixer, am I suppose to keep the mixer going so I can get the sidewalk built, ...or should I turn it off?
Worse still, should I be the one placing him into the cement mixer to begin with?

No one is saying he should have let the dog die, ...simply that he should not have left the man handcuffed and vulnerable. Retribution and the desire to exact vengeance on behalf of the animal ellicits one reaction, however professionalism demands another. He should have uncuffed the guy and had him picked up later. And that is what is at issue here.

Think about it for a minute Rocky. Let us assume, that while in Harlem or Watts, you were arrested under suspicion that you were the Klansman who had been burning crosses in the neighbourhood. How would you feel if the cop who placed you under arrest couldn't immediately transport you to the station for booking & processing? Would you prefer he uncuff you, with the certain knowledge they were going to pick up your butt later, ...or would you prefer to be left handcuffed & vulnerable in a Harlem back alley, unable to defend yourself while angry residents not fond of the KKK used you as a punching bag?

With the power to place someone in custody, comes the responsibility for the safekeeping of that person.
He should have delivered him up to the safe custody of the police, ...or released him from his bonds.

One of the issues this controversy is bringing to the fore is whether animal rescue workers need more backup and support when attending calls. Were they required to be dispatched in pairs similar to police, one could have effected the arrest while the other whisked the animal to medical care. Unfortunately, an animal rescue call is not a huge priority for the police department who dispatches officers based on the severity of the call. And later calls of a more urgent nature will take priority over an animal rescue call.


Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: rockyfortune on August 16, 2007, 08:33:25 AM
Not at all, ...but understand this guy was not Bin Laden, and he wasn't profiled on America's Most Wanted.
I understand he is an animal rescue officer, ...however, the question remains did he prioritize an animals wellbeing over a humans?

I could be a bloody cement worker tasked with the job of laying cement in sidewalks, but if someone falls into the cement mixer, am I suppose to keep the mixer going so I can get the sidewalk built, ...or should I turn it off? Worse still, should I be the one placing him into the cement mixer to begin with?

No one is saying he should have let the dog die, ...simply that he should not have left the man handcuffed and vulnerable. Retribution and the desire to exact vengeance on behalf of the animal ellicits one reaction, however professionalism demands another. He should have uncuffed the guy and had him picked up later. And that is what is at issue here.
Think about it for a minute Rocky. Let us assume, that while in Harlem or Watts, you were arrested under suspicion that you were the Klansman who had been burning crosses in the neighbourhood. How would you feel if the cop who placed you under arrest couldn't immediately transport you to the station for booking & processing? Would you prefer he uncuff you, with the certain knowledge they were going to pick up your butt later, ...or would you prefer to be left handcuffed & vulnerable in a Harlem back alley, unable to defend yourself while angry residents not fond of the KKK used you as a punching bag?

With the power to place someone in custody, comes the responsibility for the safekeeping of that person.
He should have delivered him up to the safe custody of the police, ...or released him from his bonds.

One of the issues this controversy is bringing to the fore is whether animal rescue workers need more backup and support when attending calls. Were they required to be dispatched in pairs similar to police, one could have effected the arrest while the other whisked the animal to medical care. Unfortunately, an animal rescue call is not a huge priority for the police department who dispatches officers based on the severity of the call. And later calls of a more urgent nature will take priority over an animal rescue call.



Why are you assuming that he did it for retribution and not to hold him accountable to the law when the police arrived?   I don't think that he could reasonably assume that mob rule would take over and they would beat the guy..it's unfortunate that it happened but his action of handcuffing the guy should not be considered some sort of retribution.  It happens everyday when police officers are called to the scene of accidents, crimes..criminals are cuffed and victims are tended to...you don't let someone who is breaking the law to walk away. 


Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: ~flower~ on August 16, 2007, 08:45:03 AM


Why are you assuming that he did it for retribution and not to hold him accountable to the law when the police arrived?   I don't think that he could reasonably assume that mob rule would take over and they would beat the guy..it's unfortunate that it happened but his action of handcuffing the guy should not be considered some sort of retribution.  It happens everyday when police officers are called to the scene of accidents, crimes..criminals are cuffed and victims are tended to...you don't let someone who is breaking the law to walk away. 

 But, they don't leave the person handcuffed and leave the scene.  If I read it correctly and it is accurate, he left with the dog and left the guy handcuffed there alone.  I don't think he did that for retribution, I believe he did think the police would be there very shortly after he left, but he shouldn't of left him handcuffed.  They had his license plate number, he could of been picked up later. 

  He made a bad call, not a purposely malicious one, but a bad call nonetheless.


Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: rockyfortune on August 16, 2007, 08:47:44 AM

 But, they don't leave the person handcuffed and leave the scene.  If I read it correctly and it is accurate, he left with the dog and left the guy handcuffed there alone.  I don't think he did that for retribution, I believe he did think the police would be there very shortly after he left, but he shouldn't of left him handcuffed.  They had his license plate number, he could of been picked up later. 

  He made a bad call, not a purposely malicious one, but a bad call nonetheless.




there'd be a lot less crime going on if they did.  I can't feel bad for a person like this and what happened to him..would i be part of the mob? no, but do i feel bad for a law breaker (any law breaker) who gets his/her hand caught in the cookie and gets slapped for it? nope...it's time people start being held accountable for their actions.  this guy was...i'm sure he'll think twice about ever doing something like that again. 


Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: ~flower~ on August 16, 2007, 08:58:18 AM
there'd be a lot less crime going on if they did.   :P

 Probably!!   ;D     


   I am interested to see the final outcome of this.  Will the AC guy be fired?  Have a lawsuit filed against him? Will one be filed against the city?  


Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: 24KT on August 16, 2007, 09:01:34 AM


Why are you assuming that he did it for retribution and not to hold him accountable to the law when the police arrived?   I don't think that he could reasonably assume that mob rule would take over and they would beat the guy..it's unfortunate that it happened but his action of handcuffing the guy should not be considered some sort of retribution.  It happens everyday when police officers are called to the scene of accidents, crimes..criminals are cuffed and victims are tended to...you don't let someone who is breaking the law to walk away. 

I didn't say he did it for retribution, ...but the overwhelming majority of those who applaud his actions do so for that very reason. That speaks volumes about their mindsets, ...as well as yours. As an arresting officer, his job is not also to be judge and jury, convicter and sentencer. His conviction is up to a judge and/or jury, and only upon conviction is he to be sentenced, ...again by a judge and/or jury, ...not an arresting officer.

Yes police handcuff people everyday, but they don't leave them alone and handcuffed, vulnerable to attack by passersby. The next time you come upon a cop affecting an arrest, ...try to assault his suspect and see how far you get?

Since when do we not allow someone breaking the law to walk away? It's not like they hadn't identified him.
They knew exactly who he was upon arriving at the scene.


Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: knny187 on August 16, 2007, 09:13:33 AM
Anyone that abuses/negelects an animal...wouldn't be classified in my opinion as a "stellar individual".

I support this guy....

he had his hands full & didn't want the owner to dry away or to get away from taking responsibility.

So...innocent bystanders came by & 'tuned' him up alittle.  So what?  The jerk off probably gets shit like this happening to him all the time if locking a dog in a car shows anything of his behaviour.

This is the way I look at it.....

if he didn't lock this dog up in the car on a hot summer day & leave him there for dead....& if someone didn't report it & had to break into his car.....SHIT LIKE GETTING CUFFED TO YOUR CAR SO BYSTANDERS TAKING POP SHOTS AT YOU WOULDN"T OF HAPPENED.

 ::)


Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: rockyfortune on August 16, 2007, 09:14:42 AM
I didn't say he did it for retribution, ...but the overwhelming majority of those who applaud his actions do so for that very reason. That speaks volumes about their mindsets, ...as well as yours. As an arresting officer, his job is not also to be judge and jury, convicter and sentencer. His conviction is up to a judge and/or jury, and only upon conviction is he to be sentenced, ...again by a judge and/or jury, ...not an arresting officer.

Yes police handcuff people everyday, but they don't leave them alone and handcuffed, vulnerable to attack by passersby. The next time you come upon a cop affecting an arrest, ...try to assault his suspect and see how far you get?

Since when do we not allow someone breaking the law to walk away? It's not like they hadn't identified him.
They knew exactly who he was upon arriving at the scene.


what utopian planet are you living on?  i'd like to know because i want to live there.  what mindset is that?  that you cannot treat living things like he did and walk away..so he got his ass beat---would you be so up and arms and talking about how animal rights have gone too far if he was uncuffed by the cop and he still got his ass beat? or would that be ok in your eyes?  you want to rip someone, rip the people who attacked the guy, not the guy who was doing his job...since when is he responsible for making sure everyone acts rationally?


Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: ~flower~ on August 16, 2007, 09:21:58 AM
If you take someone into custody you take on the responsibility for the safety of that person. That means not handcuffing them and then taking off.  If he had unhandcuffed him and then left and the guy got jumped the guys safety would not have been his concern because he was no longer in his custody. 

  It's nice to think the guy got what he deserved, but what if the next person is someone who is innocent? 


Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: rockyfortune on August 16, 2007, 09:47:28 AM
If you take someone into custody you take on the responsibility for the safety of that person. That means not handcuffing them and then taking off.  If he had unhandcuffed him and then left and the guy got jumped the guys safety would not have been his concern because he was no longer in his custody. 

  It's nice to think the guy got what he deserved, but what if the next person is someone who is innocent? 



it doesn't sound like this happens very often to think that it may happen to an ''innocent'' person the next time--....it was an extreme case.  poor judgement but under the circumstances the ACO gets a mulligan on this one. They are killing this guy over this and here you have a legitimate scumbag criminal and he gets sympathy. how f**ked up is that?



Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: ~flower~ on August 16, 2007, 10:06:29 AM
it doesn't sound like this happens very often to think that it may happen to an ''innocent'' person the next time--....it was an extreme case.  poor judgement but under the circumstances the ACO gets a mulligan on this one. They are killing this guy over this and here you have a legitimate scumbag criminal and he gets sympathy. how f**ked up is that?

  They probably will use him as an example and this will probably never happen again.

 But if you want to spin it so that this guys actions may affect other animals from getting help then here is a possibility.   The person sues the city, AC, and the guy.  How much money will they have to pay  that could of went towards helping animals?  Will the AC be less able to do stuff because they had to pay a lawsuit?  (I'm not sure if insurance or whatever pays for that?)  Also, what if this guy walks away now?   I can look at how the AC's officers actions could affect future animals and not even consider the guy who left his dog in the car.

 Just a different spin that doesn't give a shit about the guy who got beat up...  8)


Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: 24KT on August 17, 2007, 01:07:21 AM

what utopian planet are you living on?  i'd like to know because i want to live there.
(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/em/proud.gif)
I live in a wonderful place called Canada,  ...perhaps you've heard of it?  ;)

Quote
what mindset is that?
 

The kneejerk desire for punitive vigilante vengeance. I find it astonishing that people so concerned over the care, safety, and well-being of animals, can be so callous & indifferent to the safety, well-being, and security of humans

Quote
that you cannot treat living things like he did and walk away..

Do you really think that by uncuffing him at the moment, he would've "walked away" from either justice or the law?

Quote
so he got his ass beat---would you be so up and arms and talking about how animal rights have gone too far if he was uncuffed by the cop and he still got his ass beat?

I don't consider myself "up in arms", but No, I would not be. I wouldn't have condoned what happened to him, however, I'm far less concerned with inappropriate acts committed by general members of the public, than I am with inappropriate acts committed by those charged with the authority to maintain the rule of law, and those with authority over the public.

Quote
or would that be ok in your eyes?

Not ok, ...but certainly less troublesome. in that instance, the man would have at least had the ability to defend himself. Furthermore, the assault might never have taken place had he had the ability to defend himself. What kind of a person assaults a handcuffed man... let alone tag teams him, a spiteful, vindictive, coward, that's who.

Quote
you want to rip someone, rip the people who attacked the guy, not the guy who was doing his job...since when is he responsible for making sure everyone acts rationally?

He's not responsible for making sure everyone acts rationally,
...but he is responsible for making sure HE acts rationally. I don't think he did.  :'(

Rocky, please understand what the issue is here. It is not whether Mr Soderholm acted wrongly by leaving his dog in the SUV. There is no question he was wrong to do that. The question is not whether Mr. Smith acted wrongly in saving the dogs life. There is no question saving the dog's life was the right thing to do. At issue here is the question of whether or not Mr. Smith acted negligently with regards to the safety, well being and security of Mr. Soderholm.


Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: 24KT on August 17, 2007, 01:45:27 AM
The plot thickens.....

Did dog rescuer go too far?

(http://www.thestar.com/images/assets/263020_3.JPG)
Humane Society officer Tre Smith cuddles Cyrus, a Rottweiler he
rescued and in the process handcuffed the dog's owner while he
treated the animal. The owner was attacked by a crowd and the
incident is under investigation.


Aug 16, 2007 04:30 AM
Michele Henry, The Toronto Star
Staff Reporter


They don't agree on much.

Tre Smith, a Toronto Humane Society investigator, and Paul Soderholm, a dog owner charged with animal cruelty, tell night-and-day versions of what happened between them a few weeks ago.

The two became embroiled in a harrowing incident involving a Rotweiller named Cyrus, a set of handcuffs and vigilante bystanders.

Here's what is indisputable: Smith smashed a window and pulled Cyrus from an overheated SUV. He handcuffed Soderholm to the car. The dog owner lost three teeth after being beaten by angry animal lovers and Smith was suspended from his duties as a Humane Society investigator.

Soderholm was charged with animal cruelty. Two men were charged with assaulting him.

And the incident has uncovered fault lines, still deep, from a long-standing rift between the Toronto Humane Society and the Ontario Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals.

What unfolded July 31 in a Parkdale parking lot has inspired numerous Facebook sites supporting Smith and his "heroic" canine rescue, and a rally yesterday demanding his suspension be revoked.

It has also raised questions about the powers of animal cruelty officers. Smith handcuffed Soderholm to an SUV, then left. Was that overstepping the bounds of his role? Did he go too far?

Soderholm, 44, believes so.

A victim of this story, also cast as its villain, he can't understand why he was left unable to defend himself against what he describes as an angry mob. "This isn't the Middle Ages when you put someone in the city square and people throw rocks at you and spit at you when they've done a crime," he said. "You have a trial. It's one mistake. I feel terrible more than anyone can imagine."

In his version of the events, Soderholm left Cyrus in his black Equinox around noon to visit a friend in a King St. W. apartment building, near Jameson Ave. The windows of his SUV were "cracked down," and it "was cool and there was a breeze" he said. The visit lasted longer than expected, but he came downstairs regularly to run the car's air conditioning and check on his pet of five years, which he rescued, he said, from an abusive home.

Around 2 p.m., Soderholm left the building to find Smith and others bending over the dog, trying to cool it down with bowls of water. That's the first time Smith yelled at him, he said, asking "Is that your dog?"

Next thing Soderholm knew his hands were cuffed and he was forced to sit on a picnic bench. He describes his pet as "breathing and with his eyes wide open. He was not comatose."

Soderholm was as "polite as possible" in the face of Smith's "belligerence," he said. Despite Soderholm's offers to help with the rescue effort, Smith called him "a piece of garbage and worse names," he said, and "incited the crowd" gathered around, about 15 people, to take the law into its own hands.

Members of the crowd announced they'd hurt him, Soderholm said.

That's when the situation escalated. Smith announced he had to rush the pet for emergency care, so he grabbed Soderholm and handcuffed his left arm to the passenger's side of the Equinox, then took off with the dog and a bystander.

"There was plenty of room in the truck, he could have taken me with him," Soderholm said yesterday. "There was no reason for him to handcuff me and leave me vulnerable. I wasn't going to hurt the dog, or him. I wouldn't do that."

When Smith left, two men attacked Soderholm. One threw stones at him. The other bashed his head into the car, dislodging three teeth. He waited there for an hour before police arrived, he said.

Officers found Soderholm with a swelled face and bruises. They arrested two men on the scene and charged them, , one with assault, the other with assault with a weapon.

In Smith's version, he didn't think he was leaving Soderholm to a blood-hungry mob, but under the gentle watch of five female friends until police showed up. Smith, who appeared on Canadian reality TV show The Lofters and makes regular appearances on CP24's Animal Housecalls, said officers told him they were "seconds away."

Calling police was one of the first things Smith said he did when he arrived on scene to find Cyrus in the SUV, windows rolled "totally up tight." The dog was "slumped over the back seat of the car, foaming from the mouth, gasping for breath," Smith said.

He called out to passersby to bring buckets of water. After smashing the window, he used the water to cool the dog's core temperature. That's when Soderholm appeared, seeming more "perturbed about his car than his dog."

According to Smith, Soderholm scared him and bystanders by spouting profanities and acting "erratically" as he tried to pull and push Smith away from the pet.

Smith said that after repeated pleas to allow him to do his job, he cuffed Soderholm's hands and forced him to a picnic table. When that didn't work, and Smith realized he had to get the pet more help, Smith called the police once again.

"I had to make a choice," Smith said. "Does the dog die in my arms? Or do I leave and get it the care it needs?"

He cuffed Soderholm to the SUV in the presence of five people and left, he said. "At no time did I ever think his safety was in jeopardy."

Cyrus is shaky, but has recovered. That's what tells Lee Oliver of the Toronto Humane Society that Smith did as he should both in saving the pet and dealing with its owner. All of the society's investigators are licensed to use dog sticks to fend off unruly animals as well as handcuffs, he said, adding they are essential elements, which allow Toronto officers to do their jobs.

"They're going into seedy neighbourhoods and need protection," Oliver said, adding that Smith's job is "safe" and that he'll be back on the front line as soon as this "cloud is lifted."

Kate MacDonald is CEO of the Ontario Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, which regulates animal investigators and trains them. The OSPCA suspended Smith from his duties last week.

MacDonald would like to get to the bottom of the issue. The OSPCA has hired a retired Ontario Provincial Police officer to conduct an independent review of the incident.

While Smith did "exactly the right thing" in rescuing the dog, MacDonald said, where the handcuffing is concerned, "we need to clarify what happened there."

Smith hasn't given the OSPCA the incident report the organization requested on Aug. 1, she said, and so he will remain unable to do his job until they get more information.

The OSPCA does not train officers in handcuff use, she said. "So we're not clear on how that sequence of events happened." And animal investigators don't exactly have the same powers as police," she said, simply because they aren't trained to use weapons.

Oliver said the OSPCA hasn't gotten hold of any report because Smith and the Humane Society are in the midst of writing it. Following protocol, Oliver said, Smith handed his notes to the organization's lead investigator, Dr. Steve Sheridan, who will pull it all together.

This isn't the first time the OSPCA and Humane Society have butted heads. In the mid to late '80s, the OSPCA accused the society of unethical conduct for its internal fights, links to vandalism and the way it nominated its board.

The Humane Society challenged the OSPCA act in court for the ability to train investigators and gain more control over daily practices. It lost.

There are more than 5,000 members of the Facebook group, "Supporters of Animal Cruelty Investigator Tre Smith, and about 25 people rallied for his cause yesterday morning at the Toronto Humane Society near Queen and River Sts., in the city's east end.

Lesli Bisgould, a Toronto lawyer and animal rights activist, is pleased people are reacting viscerally to animal matters.

But Bisgould said the real issue is that tougher laws are needed when it comes to animal cruelty.

At present, six months in jail and a $2,000 fine are maximum penalties for any kind of heinous act toward an animal, which are considered the least serious offences in the Criminal Code, she said.

And there's nothing in the law, she said, prohibiting the criminal animal owner from getting the pet back once the dust settles. "That should be fixed," Bisgould said.

Soderholm, who works in a Mississauga warehouse, said all he could think about during his ordeal was whether his pet was okay. Now all he wants is to see his dog. "I'm getting him back," he said. "I am."

******************(end of article)****************

Police-like powers unleashed
 
Animal cruelty investigations by the Ontario Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals and its affiliated Humane Societies are governed by the Ontario SPCA Act. The province's 205 inspectors and agents are trained criminal investigators.

The act specifically states that investigators have the same powers as police officers when enforcing animal cruelty laws. They can obtain search warrants, seize animals, issue orders to relieve an animal's distress and enter private property.

The legislation also provides investigators with police powers to investigate Criminal Code offences related to animal cruelty.

***************

This certainly tells a different side to the story now doesn't it?

I'm not saying Soderholm is innocent, ...but I will tell you this, ...it's real easy to make this kind of mistake.

I've done it to myself. Once after a series of back-to-back shoots, I found myself driving home one day and dozing off at the wheel. I decided driving while so sleepy was not a good move, and pulled off the highway to catch a quick cat nap. I pulled into a tiny little residential neighbourhood, found a nice shady spot under a tree, parked the car, left the windows cracked to let the air circulate, locked the doors and went down for a brief cat nap. When I woke up, to my horror, I found I was no longer in the shade. The sun had shifted in the sky, and was now blazing down directly through the windshield onto me. I was dazed confused, and being roasted alive. I had a few 2 litre bottles of Evian water with me, and I immediately guzzled them down. It felt like drinking hot coffee, ...only without the coffee. I drank about 4 litres of water, ...and didn't even have to pee. It took me a good 30 minutes to even start to feel halfway normal again, ...so as one who did this to myself unintentionally, I can see how one can do this to a pet unintentionally. Not saying it is right, ...only that I can see how this mistake can be made.

Notwithstanding all that though, the question still remains, ...did Smith act improperly by leaving Soderholm handcuffed and vulnerable to attack? Should accountability be required on his part, or should his status as a prominent fixture on TV's Animal Housecalls provide him carte blanche and the ability to skate by with "celebrity justice"?


Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: rockyfortune on August 17, 2007, 04:26:57 AM



here's how i look at it...

don't leave you animal in an unventilated car (ok, windows cracked still not enough) and you won't get your windows smashed, a dog (that you supposedly care for) with brain damage, 3 knocked out teeth and a bruised ego---and a reputation as a animal abuser---it's called taking responsibility for your actions.

i can't see how this guy story carries any weight when the vet in the original article stated what type of condition this dog came in with...to me..that does not sound like a dog sitting in an air conditioned vehicle...unless everyone in this situation is lying but the owner of the dog-




Bystanders came by with buckets of cold water and poured them on the dog, hoping to revive him. Andrew McGowan was one of them. "He was laying right here, and we were pouring water on it slowly, making sure it was still stimulated," he remembers.

Veterinarians tended to the dog, which was unresponsive as he was rushed to THS headquarters on River St. and given oxygen and IV on arrival. Officials say it's too soon to know if the animal suffered brain damage and they'll be watching him carefully for at least the next week. But so far, the signs are better than they'd dared to hope.


Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: 24KT on August 17, 2007, 03:02:27 PM


here's how i look at it...

don't leave you animal in an unventilated car (ok, windows cracked still not enough) and you won't get your windows smashed, a dog (that you supposedly care for) with brain damage, 3 knocked out teeth and a bruised ego---and a reputation as a animal abuser---it's called taking responsibility for your actions.

i can't see how this guy story carries any weight when the vet in the original article stated what type of condition this dog came in with...to me..that does not sound like a dog sitting in an air conditioned vehicle...unless everyone in this situation is lying but the owner of the dog-


Bystanders came by with buckets of cold water and poured them on the dog, hoping to revive him. Andrew McGowan was one of them. "He was laying right here, and we were pouring water on it slowly, making sure it was still stimulated," he remembers.

Veterinarians tended to the dog, which was unresponsive as he was rushed to THS headquarters on River St. and given oxygen and IV on arrival. Officials say it's too soon to know if the animal suffered brain damage and they'll be watching him carefully for at least the next week. But so far, the signs are better than they'd dared to hope.


(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/em/anser_the_question.gif)

Do you think that as a peace officer, charged with powers of arrest and authority over the public, that Tre Smith should take responsibility for his actions when he placed a man in handcuffs and left him at the scene, shackled, vulnerable to attack, and unable to defend himself?

Before you answer, ...please bare in mind that when he made the decision to leave the scene in order to transport the dog, ...he UN-CUFFED Mr. Soderholm, ...took him from the picnic table, ...then RE-CUFFED him to the vehicle. So an argument that Smith had no time to uncuff him before whisking the dog away for treatment goes out the window....


Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: knny187 on August 17, 2007, 04:11:16 PM
sometimes I wonder why Canada is so fucked up....


then I read shit like this & it explains everything


Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: 24KT on August 17, 2007, 04:34:09 PM
sometimes I wonder why Canada is so fucked up....


then I read shit like this & it explains everything
(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/em/hmmm.gif)
"fvcked up"?
...well if Canada is your definition of fvcked up, and if that's what you want to call it... that's fine.









pssssst: - Your highly advanced, evolved, and uniquely American style of civility is showing  :P


Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: knny187 on August 17, 2007, 04:56:38 PM
(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/em/hmmm.gif)
"fvcked up"?
...well if Canada is your definition of fvcked up, and if that's what you want to call it... that's fine.









pssssst: - Your highly advanced, evolved, and uniquely American style of civility is showing  :P


It's called watching you pansie-assed canucks do shit about the world problems


Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: 24KT on August 17, 2007, 05:10:43 PM
It's called watching you pansie-assed canucks do shit about the world problems

Oh I see. Well you sure have a point there... what with the stellar bang up job you guys have done in Iraq  ::)

...but that only takes this topic off-topic for the board, ...so why don't we get back on-topic shall we?

Therefore, I pose to you the same questions I posed to Rocky?

Do you think that as a peace officer, charged with powers of arrest and authority over the public, that Tre Smith should take responsibility for his actions when he placed a man in handcuffs and left him at the scene, shackled, vulnerable to attack, and unable to defend himself?

Before you answer, ...please bare in mind that when he made the decision to leave the scene in order to transport the dog, ...he UN-CUFFED Mr. Soderholm, ...took him from the picnic table, ...then RE-CUFFED him to the vehicle. So an argument that Smith had no time to uncuff him before whisking the dog away for treatment goes out the window....

(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/em/answer_the_question.gif)


Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: Geo on August 17, 2007, 06:07:20 PM
seems to me like it would fall under some sort of false imprisonment law


Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: 24KT on August 17, 2007, 06:40:21 PM
seems to me like it would fall under some sort of false imprisonment law

Geo, do you think it was proper to simply cuff the man and leave the scene that way?


Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: Geo on August 17, 2007, 06:52:09 PM
fitting but not proper


Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: knny187 on August 18, 2007, 07:59:12 AM
yes..fitting & he got what was deserved



Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: 24KT on August 18, 2007, 10:13:49 AM
fitting but not proper

How can it be both? Geo, are you then saying that it is proper for a peace officer to be prosecutor, judge, and jury, before the man even sees the inside of a jail cell?


Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: Geo on August 18, 2007, 03:56:40 PM
How can it be both? Geo, are you then saying that it is proper for a peace officer to be prosecutor, judge, and jury, before the man even sees the inside of a jail cell?

shut up jagwire


Title: Re: Do you support Tre Smith?
Post by: 24KT on August 18, 2007, 05:10:26 PM
shut up jagwire
(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/em/laughing_at_u.gif)   
I'll take that as a
***crickets***