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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Sports Discussion Boards => Topic started by: TrapsMcLats on August 20, 2007, 12:27:33 PM
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to plead guilty to federal dogfighting conspiracy charge
Aug. 20, 2007
CBS SportsLine.com wire reports
RICHMOND, Va. -- Michael Vick's lawyer said Monday the NFL star will plead guilty to federal dogfighting conspiracy charges, putting the Atlanta Falcons quarterback's career in jeopardy and leaving him subject to a possible prison term.
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The offense is punishable by up to five years in prison and a $250,000 fine, although federal sentencing guidelines most likely would call for less.
"After consulting with his family over the weekend, Michael Vick asked that I announce today that he has reached an agreement with federal prosecutors regarding the charges pending against him," lead defense attorney Billy Martin said in a statement.
"Mr. Vick has agreed to enter a plea of guilty to those charges and to accept full responsibility for his actions and the mistakes he has made. Michael wishes to apologize again to everyone who has been hurt by this matter."
Vick's plea hearing will be Aug. 27, Martin said.
NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has barred Vick from Falcons training camp but has withheld further action while the league conducts its own investigation.
Vick is charged with conspiracy to travel in interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities and conspiracy to sponsor a dog in an animal fighting venture.
Martin's announcement came as a grand jury that could add new charges met in private. Prosecutors had said that a superseding indictment was in the works, but Vick's plea most likely means he will not face additional charges.
Three of Vick's original co-defendants already have pleaded guilty and agreed to testify against him if the case went to trial. Quanis Phillips of Atlanta and Purnell Peace of Virginia Beach signed statements saying the 27-year-old quarterback participated in executing at least eight underperforming dogs by various means, including drowning and hanging.
Phillips, Peace and Tony Taylor, who pleaded guilty last month, also said Vick provided virtually all of the gambling and operating funds for his "Bad Newz Kennels" operation in Surry County, Va., not far from Vick's hometown of Newport News.
The gambling allegations alone could trigger a lifetime ban under the NFL's personal conduct policy.
AP NEWS
The Associated Press News Service
Copyright 2006-2007, The Associated Press, All Rights Reserved
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the best part is that all those people in the african american community who were claiming racism and prejudice look so ridiculous now. Time for the black community to take responsibility for itself and quit playing the race card. I can't remember the last time i was so happy! VICK IS DONE!
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Over/under should be a year and a half in jail.
Once he gets out, he won't be reinstated to the NFL. Goodell hasn't even handed down a punishment yet and won't until he applies for reinstatement. I don't think he will be permantly banned but no NFL owner is going to take a chance on him based on public relations backlash alone. PETA and animal rights activists will be all over the NFL team that decides to take a chance on him.
His best chance are the arena football league or the CFL. He'll be more than washed up by then.
At least he saved the tax payers major dollars by not going to trial.
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the best part is that all those people in the african american community who were claiming racism and prejudice look so ridiculous now. Time for the black community to take responsibility for itself and quit playing the race card. I can't remember the last time i was so happy! VICK IS DONE!
Most of the idiots that we protesting were uninformed, uneducated and simply knew nothing about the hard evidence against Vick. They were claiming racism because that was the only card they could flip in order to make their voice heard. Makes me fucking sick but at least they'll shut the fuck up now.
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Over/under should be a year and a half in jail.
Once he gets out, he won't be reinstated to the NFL. Goodell hasn't even handed down a punishment yet and won't until he applies for reinstatement. I don't think he will be permantly banned but no NFL owner is going to take a chance on him based on public relations backlash alone. PETA and animal rights activists will be all over the NFL team that decides to take a chance on him.
His best chance are the arena football league or the CFL. He'll be more than washed up by then.
At least he saved the tax payers major dollars by not going to trial.
I was hoping the sentence would be more than that but I think you're right.
He agreed to a plea to save his own ass, the last thing he and his people wanted was for the general public to hear exactly what he did and how he did it. This is his effort to salvage some sort of career. I'm hoping it fails miserably.
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I hope he's fucking finished as well.
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I hope he's fucking finished as well.
He's done. I don't think the nfl will ban him, but he won't be back in the league. No team will want to deal with the bad pub, he was on the chopping block this year anyway, he just isn't worth experimenting with at this time. His last coach got canned trying to get the most out of him as a player in this league and I think he did.
This was the end of the road for him either way as a starting. Coaches saw how Jim Mora Jr invested everything in him and look where it got him. Granted they got to the NFC title game, but that was a HUGE fall off up until Mora Jr. was fired and I really didn't see any more upside for him as a better %, yardage, TD QB.
He relied way to heavily on his running ability which was spectacular, but hey sometimes you have to change your M.O. a little in the NFL. It got to the point where he was racking up 120 yrds rushing and 0 TD's and maybe 150 yrd passing with 1 or 2 TD's and teams were like."we can live with that"
He even started saying things like "I'm doing all I can do!" kinda throwing his team under the bus. He forget the entire offense was designed for him his entire career up to that point. his 350 total yrds and 2 Td's wasn't translating into wins anymore. The league had caught up to him basically.
Just my 25 cents. ;)
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Very well put. He did have his best year passing statistically in 2006 with 20 TD tosses to go along with 1,000 yards rushing.
But the bottom line is that he is a running QB. Running teams rarely score 20+ points a game unless the defense chips in. He couldn't rely on scrambling forever because there would've come a time where he could only rely on his arm in the pocket.
A 6 foot tall(I doubt he's even that tall) pocket passer is almost non existent in the NFL. The rest of the league was definitely catching up to him.
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He's done. I don't think the nfl will ban him, but he won't be back in the league. No team will want to deal with the bad pub, he was on the chopping block this year anyway, he just isn't worth experimenting with at this time.
If Demarcus Russel doesn't workout(Culpepper will be done by then), The Raiders might pick him up, they don't give a fuck about the press.
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no way in hell does al davis associate himself with vick. he might take a risk on some loose cannons, but this is a whole different situation and ultimately, unlike anything the NFL has EVER had to deal with before.
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Good. He can go ahead and serve his sentence, serve his likely year-long suspension, and put this puppy to rest (so to speak). I hope he cleans up his act. Sounds like justice will be served.
He'll definitely be back. People have short memories and NFL teams have given far worse bad actors second, third, fourth chances. Lawrence Phillips anyone? I will be shocked if Vick does not have multiple opportunities upon his return in about two years.
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No doubt about that BB. There is nothing more forgiving than the all American Dollar. If you can make those, morals and ethics in many cases (not all) will take a back seat.
P.S. It's nice to know, that he wasn't above the law. Nothing against him, from i hear he's a good guy, but just made some bad choices.
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No doubt about that BB. There is nothing more forgiving than the all American Dollar. If you can make those, morals and ethics in many cases (not all) will take a back seat.
P.S. It's nice to know, that he wasn't above the law. Nothing against him, from i hear he's a good guy, but just made some bad choices.
I agree.
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No doubt about that BB. There is nothing more forgiving than the all American Dollar. If you can make those, morals and ethics in many cases (not all) will take a back seat.
P.S. It's nice to know, that he wasn't above the law. Nothing against him, from i hear he's a good guy, but just made some bad choices.
Michael Vick a good guy? Are you kidding?
Have you forgotten about the whole Ron Mexico fiasco? Or the dope in the water bottle? And I'm not quite sure how you can characterize someone that participates in dog fighting as a good person especially considering the thugs that are involved, the gambling involved and the horrific way the animals are treated and executed.
Mike Vick is not a good guy. The guy is a scumbag.
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You guys are talking delusional.
No way he plays for an NFL team ever again. You guys seem to be forgetting what kind punishment Roger Goodell hands down once Vick applies for reinstatement when Vick gets out of jail. Goodell is doing an excellent job with his zero tolerance approach since he became commissioner.(i,e. Pacman Jones, Chris Henry)
You have to look at it from business standpoint when it comes to NFL ownership. Why would any owner risk the negative public backlash his franchise(and other shareholders) would inherit by signing Vick to a contract? PETA and animal rights activists would picket and demonstrate non stop in protest of Vick. Too much negative publicity and owners don't want it or need it. It's not like people are going to forget a year from now what Vick admitted guilt to.
CFL or arena football is his best bet. He'll be 29 or 30 years old and too long away from the game to make an impact anymore on the NFL level. Being an NFL athlete is a year round committment and Vick is going to be spending his down time in jail picking up dog shit at kennels as punishment.
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Michael Vick a good guy? Are you kidding?
Have you forgotten about the whole Ron Mexico fiasco? Or the dope in the water bottle? And I'm not quite sure how you can characterize someone that participates in dog fighting as a good person especially considering the thugs that are involved, the gambling involved and the horrific way the animals are treated and executed.
Mike Vick is not a good guy. The guy is a scumbag.
Don't forget he was sued for giving some girl herpes also a couple of years ago. He settled out of court which pretty much admits his guilt.
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Michael Vick a good guy? Are you kidding?
Have you forgotten about the whole Ron Mexico fiasco? And I'm not quite sure how you can characterize someone that participates in dog fighting as a good person especially considering the thugs that are involved, the gambling involved and the horrific way the animals are treated and executed.
Mike Vick is not a good guy.
The people who coached him and played with him all pretty much said he was a mild mannered stand up guy. Now, their definition of a "good guy" might be different as both yours and mine, but IMO, a person in the NFL who isn't a loud, boisterous, with an attitude of the world owing me a living or an all around jerk off and plays and practices hard is ok in my book. I may disagree with his choices and actions but understand that his opinion on the treatment of animals differs greatly from mine. I do believe he broke the law and should be punished for it. Additionally, Hanging around with thugs doesn't make you a bad person unless you share their actions that define them as thugs.....but like hanging with dogs, you might get fleas. i guess what I'm saying is that when put in perspective, Vick is a good guy considering other things outside of the dog fighting and that his view of dog fighting as repulsive and outrageous as it is to you and i, factors only slightly on the overall assessment of him being a good guy. Of course if he murdered another person it would be a different story here.
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You guys are talking delusional.
No way he plays for an NFL team ever again. You guys seem to be forgetting what kind punishment Roger Goodell hands down once Vick applies for reinstatement when Vick gets out of jail. Goodell is doing an excellent job with his zero tolerance approach since he became commissioner.(i,e. Pacman Jones, Chris Henry)
You have to look at it from business standpoint when it comes to NFL ownership. Why would any owner risk the negative public backlash his franchise(and other shareholders) would inherit by signing Vick to a contract? PETA and animal rights activists would picket and demonstrate non stop in protest of Vick. Too much negative publicity and owners don't want it or need it. It's not like people are going to forget a year from now what Vick admitted guilt to.
CFL or arena football is his best bet. He'll be 29 or 30 years old and too long away from the game to make an impact anymore on the NFL level. Being an NFL athlete is a year round committment and Vick is going to be spending his down time in jail picking up dog shit at kennels as punishment.
Maybe so, but his crime was outside of football and a crime he will have paid for. The fans will petition for his reinstatement and the NFL will find a way to justify it.
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Does anyone else feel that the people who bring up race are racist people themselves? Michael Vick should have been smarter then to put himself in this position he is in. I would think he may have a chance of playing in the NFL but it is looking like he will end up in Canada.
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there will always be one team willing to pick up a "michael vick". no he wont be their starter but someone will want him as a back up...or if their starter gets hurt and need to sign another qb . some owners will always choose winning and $$ ahead of public backlash.
personally i hope he never plays again.
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and i hope to hell no one up here in canada signs him >:(
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You guys are talking delusional.
No way he plays for an NFL team ever again. You guys seem to be forgetting what kind punishment Roger Goodell hands down once Vick applies for reinstatement when Vick gets out of jail. Goodell is doing an excellent job with his zero tolerance approach since he became commissioner.(i,e. Pacman Jones, Chris Henry)
You have to look at it from business standpoint when it comes to NFL ownership. Why would any owner risk the negative public backlash his franchise(and other shareholders) would inherit by signing Vick to a contract? PETA and animal rights activists would picket and demonstrate non stop in protest of Vick. Too much negative publicity and owners don't want it or need it. It's not like people are going to forget a year from now what Vick admitted guilt to.
CFL or arena football is his best bet. He'll be 29 or 30 years old and too long away from the game to make an impact anymore on the NFL level. Being an NFL athlete is a year round committment and Vick is going to be spending his down time in jail picking up dog shit at kennels as punishment.
I think he'll get a year suspension that will probably run after his jail term, so he's looking at being gone for two years.
Business reasons are precisely why Vick will play in the NFL again. He can help a team win. He's one of the best football players in the NFL. He sells tickets. How long did Mike Tyson continue to be a draw after showing he is certifiable? A player who can help a team win and help the team make money will always get multiple opportunities.
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The people who coached him and played with him all pretty much said he was a mild mannered stand up guy. Now, their definition of a "good guy" might be different as both yours and mine, but IMO, a person in the NFL who isn't a loud, boisterous, with an attitude of the world owing me a living or an all around jerk off and plays and practices hard is ok in my book. I may disagree with his choices and actions but understand that his opinion on the treatment of animals differs greatly from mine. I do believe he broke the law and should be punished for it. Additionally, Hanging around with thugs doesn't make you a bad person unless you share their actions that define them as thugs.....but like hanging with dogs, you might get fleas. i guess what I'm saying is that when put in perspective, Vick is a good guy considering other things outside of the dog fighting and that his view of dog fighting as repulsive and outrageous as it is to you and i, factors only slightly on the overall assessment of him being a good guy. Of course if he murdered another person it would be a different story here.
where do you get this good guy shit? you ever meet him? have dinner with him or something? or are you taking deion sanders opinion that he loved his dogs like any dog lover just in a different way? no one that did what he did can be considered a ''good guy''...
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The people who coached him and played with him all pretty much said he was a mild mannered stand up guy. Now, their definition of a "good guy" might be different as both yours and mine, but IMO, a person in the NFL who isn't a loud, boisterous, with an attitude of the world owing me a living or an all around jerk off and plays and practices hard is ok in my book. I may disagree with his choices and actions but understand that his opinion on the treatment of animals differs greatly from mine. I do believe he broke the law and should be punished for it. Additionally, Hanging around with thugs doesn't make you a bad person unless you share their actions that define them as thugs.....but like hanging with dogs, you might get fleas. i guess what I'm saying is that when put in perspective, Vick is a good guy considering other things outside of the dog fighting and that his view of dog fighting as repulsive and outrageous as it is to you and i, factors only slightly on the overall assessment of him being a good guy. Of course if he murdered another person it would be a different story here.
Yeah. I think his Ron Mexico stunt was awful, but he was apparently not a problem player. From Jim Mora Jr.:
``He plays in a flamboyant manner. But he's not a flamboyant person,'' Mora said of the 27-year-old Vick. ``He doesn't dress flamboyantly. He doesn't hit all the night spots. He isn't out on the town. He's kind of a quiet, reserved kid.
``But I can just tell you this: He always carried himself in a very professional manner when he was around the Atlanta Falcons.''
``Just like Dan Reeves (Atlanta's coach from 1997-2003) said, I never saw that side of him. What I saw was a real professional. A kid who cared about his teammates, who cared about people in general, who was a hard worker, who was always there and always on time.
``And once again, he is accused of things. He hasn't been convicted. I didn't ever seen anything that indicated that side of him.''
http://www.newsday.com/search/dp-now-vickmora,0,7151373.story
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Maybe so, but his crime was outside of football and a crime he will have paid for. The fans will petition for his reinstatement and the NFL will find a way to justify it.
I disagree. New commissioner, new outlook and perspective. I really like Goodell's attitude and approach.
And what "fans" are you referring to? Vick has lost more fans faster than any pro athlete in quite a long time. All the media has to do(and they will) is broadcast the horrific acts that Vick was engaged in and the hate starts fresh.(drowning, electrocuting, slamming a dog against a wall) What kind of justification to that could the NFL conjure up? That is precisely why Goodell will keep him out.
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The people who coached him and played with him all pretty much said he was a mild mannered stand up guy. Now, their definition of a "good guy" might be different as both yours and mine, but IMO, a person in the NFL who isn't a loud, boisterous, with an attitude of the world owing me a living or an all around jerk off and plays and practices hard is ok in my book. I may disagree with his choices and actions but understand that his opinion on the treatment of animals differs greatly from mine. I do believe he broke the law and should be punished for it. Additionally, Hanging around with thugs doesn't make you a bad person unless you share their actions that define them as thugs.....but like hanging with dogs, you might get fleas. i guess what I'm saying is that when put in perspective, Vick is a good guy considering other things outside of the dog fighting and that his view of dog fighting as repulsive and outrageous as it is to you and i, factors only slightly on the overall assessment of him being a good guy. Of course if he murdered another person it would be a different story here.
I disagree with that point. If you hang around with thugs then you're a thug. Have you seen the type of lowlife thugs that are into this dog fighting insanity?
I'm not sure where your defense of Vick comes from but it seems misguided at best. From what I've read there are dozens of other issues that the Falcons have managed to quash before the public ever heard about them.
Vick is a lowlife, his actions off the field have proven that more than once. You can be enamored with his ability to run and evade tackles on a football field but as a human being he's simply not worthy of your defense or admiration.
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No way he plays for an NFL team ever again. You guys seem to be forgetting what kind punishment Roger Goodell hands down once Vick applies for reinstatement when Vick gets out of jail.
why do you keep saying that ? how much sense does not handing down a punishment until vick applies for reinstatement make ?
and for the record you nor anyone else knows what goodall is going to announce as far as NFL regarding punishment for this guy (which will be in the next few days probably) because this is unprecedented,it's never been an issue in the NFL so goodall is in uncharted waters in regards to guidelines.....
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just saw that the prosecutor are asking for 12-18 months in jail
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No doubt about that BB. There is nothing more forgiving than the all American Dollar. If you can make those, morals and ethics in many cases (not all) will take a back seat.
P.S. It's nice to know, that he wasn't above the law. Nothing against him, from i hear he's a good guy, but just made some bad choices.
Yeah..he made bad choices...for six fucking years..that's not making bad choices that's being a fucking criminal.
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good riddance, i hope he gets banned from the league forever
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Good. I knew this peice of trash would fold. Hopefully Vick gets a little pay back in jail for all those dogs he tortured to death.
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I disagree with that point. If you hang around with thugs then you're a thug. Have you seen the type of lowlife thugs that are into this dog fighting insanity?
I'm not sure where your defense of Vick comes from but it seems misguided at best. From what I've read there are dozens of other issues that the Falcons have managed to quash before the public ever heard about them.
Vick is a lowlife, his actions off the field have proven that more than once. You can be enamored with his ability to run and evade tackles on a football field but as a human being he's simply not worthy of your defense or admiration.
I base most of my opinion on what his coaches had to say about him. Of course i don't know the man personally and i hope you are not getting the idea i am condoning what he did. But you don't know him either and chances are no one who is commenting on this thread does either so it goes both ways in that respect. So we are making judgments based on incomplete information about his character that may be based solely on this incident. I tend to trust, (although it might be mistaken) the coaches comments, Reeves and Mora.
Another view point you might want to consider is the insensitivity brought about by the "culture" of dog fighting if you compare it to "cock" fighting. Much of the same things happen and people who live in cultures like that see nothing wrong with doing that.
Much like Bull fighting (killing) in Spain as a comparison to Cock fighting in Puerto Rico.
And for hanging around with thugs. I agree. But were these guys Vicks friends from where he grew up or criminals he met when in football? Where the thugs friends of friends that eventually became his friends but he didn't par take in the thug's activities outside the dog fights? See we really don't know.
But we do know about what Mora and Reeves said about him.
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I base most of my opinion on what his coaches had to say about him. Of course i don't know the man personally and i hope you are not getting the idea i am condoning what he did. But you don't know him either and chances are no one who is commenting on this thread does either so it goes both ways in that respect. So we are making judgments based on incomplete information about his character that may be based solely on this incident. I tend to trust, (although it might be mistaken) the coaches comments, Reeves and Mora.
Another view point you might want to consider is the insensitivity brought about by the "culture" of dog fighting if you compare it to "cock" fighting. Much of the same things happen and people who live in cultures like that see nothing wrong with doing that.
Much like Bull fighting (killing) in Spain as a comparison to Cock fighting in Puerto Rico.
And for hanging around with thugs. I agree. But were these guys Vicks friends from where he grew up or criminals he met when in football? Where the thugs friends of friends that eventually became his friends but he didn't par take in the thug's activities outside the dog fights? See we really don't know.
But we do know about what Mora and Reeves said about him.
my guess is that mora reeves weren't going to come out and rip the guy to shreds...you can take what they said at face value...it's vick's former head coaches--my guess he wasn't acting like a thug or discussing his dog fighting business while hanging around reeves, mora, and the owner arthur blank.
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blinky who's the chick in your avatar?
back to vick, i keep hearing about how he'll be back and that americans love a comeback story... but in all honesty, i think most people would hate him unless he came back and started donating half the millions of dollars he's made and will make to the ASPCA. People like comebacks from drug abuse and personal issues, illnesses and injuries... but fighting dogs and killing dogs? This is a whole new arena for pro sports and pop culture in general. its not like anyone likes OJ, even though he vowed to find the "real killers," right?
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I hope the dog killer burns in hell. :D
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why do you keep saying that ? how much sense does not handing down a punishment until Vick applies for reinstatement make ?
and for the record you nor anyone else knows what goodall is going to announce as far as NFL regarding punishment for this guy (which will be in the next few days probably) because this is unprecedented,it's never been an issue in the NFL so goodall is in uncharted waters in regards to guidelines.....
Goddell will issue Vick a permanant ban from the league well before he applies for reinstatement. Goddell is sending a strong message with a zero tolerance approach that other major sports organizations should pay close attention to. Having Vick back in the league would cause a major public relations nightmare that the NFL doesn't want to inherit against their image.
Sure, I understand everyone saying that Vick is a major draw and some NFL owners will look at the opportunity of lining their pockets by bringing him in for a tryout years from now. BUT, it's not up to the NFL owners to give Vick another chance when the commissioner already hands down the decision to give him a lifetime ban.
I understand people arguing my opinion on a lifetime ban. But I'm sticking to it because I feel Goddell is the real McCoy when it comes to sticking to his guns and taking the appropriate action. His recent punishments against Pacman Jones, Chris Henry, and Odell Thurman prove it.
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my guess is that mora reeves weren't going to come out and rip the guy to shreds...you can take what they said at face value...it's vick's former head coaches--my guess he wasn't acting like a thug or discussing his dog fighting business while hanging around reeves, mora, and the owner arthur blank.
I see your point. But if Vick wasn't the person they described i don't think those 2 coaches would have described Vick in the detail they did. they didn't have to elaborate in their comments, but they gave examples and details which something that tells me is probably true otherwise the players would lose respect for their coaches and Reeves and Mora I'm sure were well aware of it.
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Goddell will issue Vick a permanant ban from the league well before he applies for reinstatement. Goddell is sending a strong message with a zero tolerance approach that other major sports organizations should pay close attention to. Having Vick back in the league would cause a major public relations nightmare that the NFL doesn't want to inherit against their image.
Sure, I understand everyone saying that Vick is a major draw and some NFL owners will look at the opportunity of lining their pockets by bringing him in for a tryout years from now. BUT, it's not up to the NFL owners to give Vick another chance when the commissioner already hands down the decision to give him a lifetime ban.
I understand people arguing my opinion on a lifetime ban. But I'm sticking to it because I feel Goddell is the real McCoy when it comes to sticking to his guns and taking the appropriate action. His recent punishments against Pacman Jones, Chris Henry, and Odell Thurman prove it.
I applaud Goddel for what he's doing in the NFL. It's about time someone makes this kind of stand about the players so much of our youth mimics and idolizes. It's good to see.
But do you really think he'll give him a life time ban? I don't see that happening. What i see happening is Vick being eligible to play in 2010 and he'll be 30 and out of football for 3 years. That alone might prevent him from playing.
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I'd make a big sign that said "BURN IN HELL DOG KILLER" if I were at a game and he were playing. It just won't happen. Even the "Raipers" aren't that low. He is done. :)
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I applaud Goddel for what he's doing in the NFL. It's about time someone makes this kind of stand about the players so much of our youth mimics and idolizes. It's good to see.
But do you really think he'll give him a life time ban? I don't see that happening. What i see happening is Vick being eligible to play in 2010 and he'll be 30 and out of football for 3 years. That alone might prevent him from playing.
In the back of my mind, I agree with you. But only if Vick embarks on a pledge to be some kind of goodwill ambassador when he gets out of prison. For example, donating money to PETA or any other animal rights foundation. If he shows that kind of generosity, whether it's genuine or not, Vick may have a shot to back in the league in 2010.
You know why I don't think that will happen? Because I think Vick still dosen't understand that what he did was inhumane or wrong. He realizes it's against the law and there are consequences, but I think he doesn't think that what he did was wrong in a moral sense. I just don't think he gets it. Maybe jail will change that perception.
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2) Please "Take Action" to thank prosecuting attorneys Michael Gill and Brian Whisler for pursuing the case vigorously and urge them to seek the maximum legal penalty against Vick for his violent crimes. Also follow up with a polite letter or phone call urging the same:
United States Attorney's Building
600 East Main Street
Suite 1800
Richmond, VA 23219-2447
Tel: (804) 819-5400
3) Call (212) 450-2000 and urge the NFL to ban Vick from the league for life under their personal conduct policy. Follow up with a letter to NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell urging the same:
Mr. Roger Goodell
NFL Commissioner
280 Park Ave.
New York, NY 10017
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I base most of my opinion on what his coaches had to say about him. Of course i don't know the man personally and i hope you are not getting the idea i am condoning what he did. But you don't know him either and chances are no one who is commenting on this thread does either so it goes both ways in that respect. So we are making judgments based on incomplete information about his character that may be based solely on this incident. I tend to trust, (although it might be mistaken) the coaches comments, Reeves and Mora.
Another view point you might want to consider is the insensitivity brought about by the "culture" of dog fighting if you compare it to "cock" fighting. Much of the same things happen and people who live in cultures like that see nothing wrong with doing that.
Much like Bull fighting (killing) in Spain as a comparison to Cock fighting in Puerto Rico.
And for hanging around with thugs. I agree. But were these guys Vicks friends from where he grew up or criminals he met when in football? Where the thugs friends of friends that eventually became his friends but he didn't par take in the thug's activities outside the dog fights? See we really don't know.
But we do know about what Mora and Reeves said about him.
Ozmo, when's the last time a head coach, manager or owner bad mouthed the character of their superstar player? It doesn't happen except for the rarest of rare instances and not with superstar players. You simply can't take what they say at face value. We've all seen it over and over and over and over and over again.
If you believe everything a coach/manager/owner says about their player then I have some beautiful beach front property to sell you in Arkansas along with a gorgeous bridge in Manhattan.
That is besides the fact that no one is questioning his behavior on the field or in the locker room. It's his off field behavior in his personal life that is under such intense scrutiny. Do you really believe a coach/manager/owner is going to criticize his superstar's personal problems to the general public?
It simply won't happen.
It's almost as if you're latching onto anything you can to give Vick the benefit of the doubt.
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Ozmo, when's the last time a head coach, manager or owner bad mouthed the character of their superstar player? It doesn't happen except for the rarest of rare instances and not with superstar players. You simply can't take what they say at face value. We've all seen it over and over and over and over and over again.
If you believe everything a coach/manager/owner says about their player then I have some beautiful beach front property to sell you in Arkansas along with a gorgeous bridge in Manhattan.
That is besides the fact that no one is questioning his behavior on the field or in the locker room. It's his off field behavior in his personal life that is under such intense scrutiny. Do you really believe a coach/manager/owner is going to criticize his superstar's personal problems to the general public?
It simply won't happen.
It's almost as if you're latching onto anything you can to give Vick the benefit of the doubt.
The coaches statement would contain some truth in it and it's doubtful they would have straight out lied about something they said. I think we are being quick to judgment here when it concerns Vick's character outside the Dog fighting issue.
You know as well as i do, there are tons of very Good people of good character who do bad things.....Just look at some of the supporters of the war ;)
However, i do concede some of your points because as i said you or i don't know him personally.
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Is should also ask....
Is every Bull Fighter in Spain of Bad Character because they kill Bulls with swords?
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The coaches statement would contain some truth in it and it's doubtful they would have straight out lied about something they said. I think we are being quick to judgment here when it concerns Vick's character outside the Dog fighting issue.
You know as well as i do, there are tons of very Good people of good character who do bad things.....Just look at some of the supporters of the war ;)
However, i do concede some of your points because as i said you or i don't know him personally.
I don't think it's doubtful they would have straight out lied, I've heard coaches/managers/owners straight out lie more times than I can count and so has any other fan. It happens all the time. In some instances you're probably correct though, there is a kernel (some) truth in their statements.
Again, the issue here is Vick's off field actions and there's no way a coach/manager/owner is going to negatively comment on his superstar player's personal problems.
Is should also ask....
Is every Bull Fighter in Spain of Bad Character because they kill Bulls with swords?
OK, now you're just trying to spark debate (I hope) because dog fighting and all it entails and bull fighting aren't even remotely analogous. For a far more accurate comparison you could have used Cock Fighting although I could argue that that isn't even on the same level as dog fighting.
BTW, you keep forgetting that dog fighting isn't Vick's only issue. There have been others, many of which were quashed before the public got hold of them.
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Goddell will issue Vick a permanant ban from the league well before he applies for reinstatement. Goddell is sending a strong message with a zero tolerance approach that other major sports organizations should pay close attention to. Having Vick back in the league would cause a major public relations nightmare that the NFL doesn't want to inherit against their image.
Sure, I understand everyone saying that Vick is a major draw and some NFL owners will look at the opportunity of lining their pockets by bringing him in for a tryout years from now. BUT, it's not up to the NFL owners to give Vick another chance when the commissioner already hands down the decision to give him a lifetime ban.
I understand people arguing my opinion on a lifetime ban. But I'm sticking to it because I feel Goddell is the real McCoy when it comes to sticking to his guns and taking the appropriate action. His recent punishments against Pacman Jones, Chris Henry, and Odell Thurman prove it.
No way he gets a lifetime ban. Pacman is about as bad an actor as we've had in the league in sometime and he "only" got a year. Aside from the Ron Mexico issue, Vick doesn't have the history of a Pacman or Chris Henry. As far as I know, this is his first arrest, first conviction, and he has never had a problem on the field.
Here is what Leigh Steinberg has to say:
Eventual comeback isn't out of question for Vick
By Ken Murray | Sun reporter
August 21, 2007
Digg Del.icio.us Facebook Furl Google Reddit Spurl Yahoo Print Single page view Reprints Reader feedback Text size: On Christmas Eve of 2004, the Atlanta Falcons gave Michael Vick a 10-year, $130 million contract, more in recognition of his promise than his production.
Almost three years and $22 million worth of signing bonus later, Vick is likely headed to prison and his football career is in jeopardy. The brilliantly talented, but tragically flawed quarterback has fallen short of the Falcons' vision in every way possible.
It is uncertain whether there will be any more NFL Sundays in store for Vick after a 12-to-18-month prison sentence - the punishment expected to be meted out for a guilty plea to dogfighting charges.
But Leigh Steinberg, the sports agent who has advised marquee quarterbacks, can see a future with Vick back in the NFL, if not back in Atlanta.
"Imagine a tearful Michael Vick admitting that he did what he was charged with, vowing to be an advocate for animals rights and [willing to] spend the rest of his life making up for whatever harm he did," Steinberg said.
"It's as brutal a destruction of a reputation as I've seen in years for a player, but the passage of time with the right repentance will heal a lot of wounds. It just does."
Steinberg, who does not represent Vick, said supply and demand for elite quarterbacks likely will dictate another chance for Vick.
"Remember, we're talking about a player that several years ago was considered to be the most talented player in the entire NFL by many people and the shining star of the NFL," Steinberg said.
That precludes a lifetime ban by NFL commissioner Roger Goodell, who is cracking down on aberrant behavior in the league. Goodell has instituted a new personal-conduct policy, and could issue the lifetime ban if the NFL's investigation into the charges produces evidence of gambling.
Veteran Gary Stills of the Ravens says Vick should be allowed back after he has taken his punishment.
"Of course he should be allowed back in the league," Stills said. "Whatever he did, he's got to face up to it. Whatever he did was wrong, he got in trouble, he'll take a plea. He shouldn't be banned from the NFL."
Because terms of Vick's plea agreement haven't been announced, it's uncertain how much time he will miss. It is expected that Goodell's suspension will come at the end of Vick's jail time, just as it did when he suspended former Chicago Bears defensive tackle Tank Johnson during the offseason.
If Vick, 28, gets 18 months in prison along with the one-year suspension, he could be out of the league for three full seasons. In that scenario, he'd be 31 when he returns in 2010.
Ron Wolf, a retired general manager with a knack for developing quarterbacks, said he believes Vick could make a successful return to the league.
"Yes, he can come back," Wolf said. "You saw that during the war years. Some guys lost two or three years at that position and came back and performed as well as they did previously. He's young enough to do all that."
What's more, Wolf thinks Vick will be entitled to return once he's served his time.
"If he's paid his debt to society, why shouldn't he play?" Wolf asked.
The most recent player to return to the league after serving time in prison is former Ravens running back Jamal Lewis, who served a four-month sentence before the team's 2004 training camp for using a cell phone to facilitate a drug-trafficking crime.
Leonard Little, a defensive end with the St. Louis Rams, served 90 days in jail and an eight-game league suspension after killing a woman in a 1998 auto accident while driving with a blood-alcohol level of 0.19.
Steinberg said that by following the right steps, Vick can make a comeback of sorts.
"America allows people to reinvent themselves," Steinberg said. "He did not murder a human being, he didn't hurt a human being. ... This is a country of pet lovers. The imagery of a physically virile athlete torturing an innocent animal was so repugnant that it struck a chord in the American public."
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/bal-sp.vickcareer21aug21,0,4683032.story
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No way he gets a lifetime ban. Pacman is about as bad an actor as we've had in the league in sometime and he "only" got a year. Aside from the Ron Mexico issue, Vick doesn't have the history of a Pacman or Chris Henry. As far as I know, this is his first arrest, first conviction, and he has never had a problem on the field.
Here is what Leigh Steinberg has to say:
Eventual comeback isn't out of question for Vick
By Ken Murray | Sun reporter
August 21, 2007
Digg Del.icio.us Facebook Furl Google Reddit Spurl Yahoo Print Single page view Reprints Reader feedback Text size: On Christmas Eve of 2004, the Atlanta Falcons gave Michael Vick a 10-year, $130 million contract, more in recognition of his promise than his production.
Almost three years and $22 million worth of signing bonus later, Vick is likely headed to prison and his football career is in jeopardy. The brilliantly talented, but tragically flawed quarterback has fallen short of the Falcons' vision in every way possible.
It is uncertain whether there will be any more NFL Sundays in store for Vick after a 12-to-18-month prison sentence - the punishment expected to be meted out for a guilty plea to dogfighting charges.
But Leigh Steinberg, the sports agent who has advised marquee quarterbacks, can see a future with Vick back in the NFL, if not back in Atlanta.
"Imagine a tearful Michael Vick admitting that he did what he was charged with, vowing to be an advocate for animals rights and [willing to] spend the rest of his life making up for whatever harm he did," Steinberg said.
"It's as brutal a destruction of a reputation as I've seen in years for a player, but the passage of time with the right repentance will heal a lot of wounds. It just does."
Steinberg, who does not represent Vick, said supply and demand for elite quarterbacks likely will dictate another chance for Vick.
"Remember, we're talking about a player that several years ago was considered to be the most talented player in the entire NFL by many people and the shining star of the NFL," Steinberg said.
That precludes a lifetime ban by NFL commissioner Roger Goodell, who is cracking down on aberrant behavior in the league. Goodell has instituted a new personal-conduct policy, and could issue the lifetime ban if the NFL's investigation into the charges produces evidence of gambling.
Veteran Gary Stills of the Ravens says Vick should be allowed back after he has taken his punishment.
"Of course he should be allowed back in the league," Stills said. "Whatever he did, he's got to face up to it. Whatever he did was wrong, he got in trouble, he'll take a plea. He shouldn't be banned from the NFL."
Because terms of Vick's plea agreement haven't been announced, it's uncertain how much time he will miss. It is expected that Goodell's suspension will come at the end of Vick's jail time, just as it did when he suspended former Chicago Bears defensive tackle Tank Johnson during the offseason.
If Vick, 28, gets 18 months in prison along with the one-year suspension, he could be out of the league for three full seasons. In that scenario, he'd be 31 when he returns in 2010.
Ron Wolf, a retired general manager with a knack for developing quarterbacks, said he believes Vick could make a successful return to the league.
"Yes, he can come back," Wolf said. "You saw that during the war years. Some guys lost two or three years at that position and came back and performed as well as they did previously. He's young enough to do all that."
What's more, Wolf thinks Vick will be entitled to return once he's served his time.
"If he's paid his debt to society, why shouldn't he play?" Wolf asked.
The most recent player to return to the league after serving time in prison is former Ravens running back Jamal Lewis, who served a four-month sentence before the team's 2004 training camp for using a cell phone to facilitate a drug-trafficking crime.
Leonard Little, a defensive end with the St. Louis Rams, served 90 days in jail and an eight-game league suspension after killing a woman in a 1998 auto accident while driving with a blood-alcohol level of 0.19.
Steinberg said that by following the right steps, Vick can make a comeback of sorts.
"America allows people to reinvent themselves," Steinberg said. "He did not murder a human being, he didn't hurt a human being. ... This is a country of pet lovers. The imagery of a physically virile athlete torturing an innocent animal was so repugnant that it struck a chord in the American public."
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/bal-sp.vickcareer21aug21,0,4683032.story
Ask yourself this....If that incident with Little occurred today, don't you think his punishment would've been more severe? It's a new regime and a new standards for behavior and discipline have been put in place.
Steinberg is making this statement as if he's a lawyer or something to that effect. Who here can picture Vick being tearful and remorseful in any media forum whatsoever? He's a fucking barnyard gangbanger hood rat who just so happens to be a tremendous professional athlete. Vick is a crooked individual, plain and simple. The evidence against him is overwhelming. Just wait until the offical statement of facts is read by the public in more detail when he gets sentenced to prison.
Tell me also what he has to do to repay his debt to society? It's going to take more than just serving a prison sentence to convince anyone that he's anything less than a douchbag based on how he's been portrayed in light of this guilty admission.
And no goddamn way is he going to return to the NFL as QB in 2010 or 2011. At best, he'll be signed to be a kick returner or a slot receiver. The QB position is one that requires a continuum of playing consective years in order to maintain success.
I wish we could turn the clock ahead to 2010 to see if he indeed has a future in the NFL. Goodell doesn't fuck around. And I'm sure he doesn't appreciate being lied to by Vick when they were face to face. The NFL is a huge business by way of the sum of it's parts and not just one individual. Having Vick reinstated would represent a black mark to the NFL by way of unwanted attention through negative public relations backlash.
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Ask yourself this....If that incident with Little occurred today, don't you think his punishment would've been more severe? It's a new regime and a new standards for behavior and discipline have been put in place.
Steinberg is making this statement as if he's a lawyer or something to that effect. Who here can picture Vick being tearful and remorseful in any media forum whatsoever? He's a fucking barnyard gangbanger hood rat who just so happens to be a tremendous professional athlete. Vick is a crooked individual, plain and simple. The evidence against him is overwhelming. Just wait until the offical statement of facts is read by the public in more detail when he gets sentenced to prison.
Tell me also what he has to do to repay his debt to society? It's going to take more than just serving a prison sentence to convince anyone that he's anything less than a douchbag based on how he's been portrayed in light of this guilty admission.
And no goddamn way is he going to return to the NFL as QB in 2010 or 2011. At best, he'll be signed to be a kick returner or a slot receiver. The QB position is one that requires a continuum of playing consective years in order to maintain success.
I wish we could turn the clock ahead to 2010 to see if he indeed has a future in the NFL. Goodell doesn't fuck around. And I'm sure he doesn't appreciate being lied to by Vick when they were face to face. The NFL is a huge business by way of the sum of it's parts and not just one individual. Having Vick reinstated would represent a black mark to the NFL by way of unwanted attention through negative public relations backlash.
Yes I think Little would have gotten a more severe penalty today. Probably a year suspension. And that was for killing a human being.
It doesn't really matter what the evidence is. Vick is pleading guilty.
He will repay his debt to society by serving time in prison, giving up his right to vote and possess firearms, losing his lucrative job and endorsements, and having a criminal record. There isn't much more he needs to do. The punishment will fit the crime IMO. There isn't going to be any restitution. No one lost their pet (as far as I know) and no one died.
We will have to agree to disagree on Vick returning. I'll be surprised if he's not back on the field as a QB. There are teams hurting at the QB position every year. Just look at this coming season: Oakland, Chicago, Green Bay, Miami, KC, etc. There will be a number of teams in need of a QB and a former Pro Bowl QB with Vick's skills will get multiple offers. How many chances did a dog like Ryan Leaf get? How about the head case Jeff George? If you look at the history of talented, but troubled players in the NFL it's hard not to conclude that someone like Vick won't get another opportunity.
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Being a Green Bay fan, I know of Ron Wolf a little bit.
Here is the counter argument to his "paid his debt to society" argument:
it is a privilege to play in the NFL.
He has no right and unless, as you state, he does a public tearful 180 and beg forgiveness he doesn't stand a chance at even attending an NFL game let alone quarterbacking a team.
I think UPINTHEMGUTS has accurately assessed Goodell and his likely response to a VIck petition for reinstatement.
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I guess we'll see what happens...
I for one have no desire to see Vick suit up again in the NFL. Never was a fan of his to begin with.
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I guess we'll see what happens...
I for one have no desire to see Vick suit up again in the NFL. Never was a fan of his to begin with.
I agree. Making millions to play a game is a privilege. Vick is a piece of shit. Dogfighting is one thing. Torturing dogs who are not game enough to fight is just sick. He should pay dearly for this. The judge trying Vick has a rep to deal out sentences closer to what the prosecutors recommend. Say Vick gets 18 months, right? That means he will miss the entire 08 and 09 seaons. Vick will have to serve his NFL dealt suspension pending his release from jail. That = 3 years until Vick can play again. Even if he only serves 12 months or so, after his suspension, he will still have to miss at least a year depending on what Roger decides. We can only hope the NFL bans his ass for life. I don't think a person who tortures puppy's to death, fights dogs illegally, fllips off his own fans, gets busted with homemade bongs,has members of his "posse" going to jail, harbors gambling and illegal activity on his property, and then lies about it all is the type of person who should be one of the face's of Americas number 1 sport. This is not Vicks first brush with trouble. The guy is obv a total dipshit.
A lot can happen in two - three years.
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Goddell will issue Vick a permanant ban from the league well before he applies for reinstatement.
which was exactly my point,you've been saying in your first two post that goodall is gonna hand down a ruling when vick applies for reinstatement,and as I said before you're lettin your emotions dictate what comes off your finger tips here,you nor I know for a fact what goodall does here,just because the general consensus leans towards a ban, that doesn't mean there will be one.....
a lot of people in the media are speaking from their hearts here as they call (or hope) for a ban but don't be surprised if there isn't one .....
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I don't think it's doubtful they would have straight out lied, I've heard coaches/managers/owners straight out lie more times than I can count and so has any other fan. It happens all the time. In some instances you're probably correct though, there is a kernel (some) truth in their statements.
Again, the issue here is Vick's off field actions and there's no way a coach/manager/owner is going to negatively comment on his superstar player's personal problems.
OK, now you're just trying to spark debate (I hope) because dog fighting and all it entails and bull fighting aren't even remotely analogous. For a far more accurate comparison you could have used Cock Fighting although I could argue that that isn't even on the same level as dog fighting.
BTW, you keep forgetting that dog fighting isn't Vick's only issue. There have been others, many of which were quashed before the public got hold of them.
You may be right. but as I've said we really don't know and perhaps I'm being some what overly optimistic as to Vick's conduct outside of dog fighting.
But the Bull fighting thing IMO opinion is right on. It's the same thing, an Animal gets killed for sport just like with dog fighting. the only difference is Bull fighting is legal in Spain as Cock fighting is legal in Puerto Rico, but dog fighting is Illegal in the USA. In all cases animals are exploited and killed.
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You may be right. but as I've said we really don't know and perhaps I'm being some what overly optimistic as to Vick's conduct outside of dog fighting.
But the Bull fighting thing IMO opinion is right on. It's the same thing, an Animal gets killed for sport just like with dog fighting. the only difference is Bull fighting is legal in Spain as Cock fighting is legal in Puerto Rico, but dog fighting is Illegal in the USA. In all cases animals are exploited and killed.
Animals are exploited in nearly anything they're involved in for entertainment purposes. The circus, the Zoo, roadside animal attractions, tv and movies all exploit animals to one degree or another.
Also, I was referring to cock fighting in the U.S. not in Spain or South America. I just don't see the level of barbarism in Bull fighting that I see in dog fighting, that's not to say I agree with Bull fighting.
Dog fighting is as barbaric an endeavor as I've ever seen, heard or read about. I never knew it was as bad as it is or as widespread as it is. The things I've read recently are horrific. Did you know that some of the dogs they use to train the dogs are stolen from people's homes and yards? That's right, these thugs steal people's pets to be used as prey for their dogs.
Vick played it smart by agreeing to a plea, if the general public actually heard first hand testimony of the things Vick did to those dogs then he'd never work again. He'd be ostracized forever.
The only way Goodell will ban Vick for life is if the gambling aspect of dog fighting is proven. If they get Vick on gambling Goodell will have his means of banning Vick, if not then Vick will eventually be reinstated.