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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: Cap on September 24, 2007, 06:24:06 PM

Title: Open challenge
Post by: Cap on September 24, 2007, 06:24:06 PM
I know many guys rag on training theories and styles.  Here is a chance to show us you're right...or wrong.  One thing I've learned in training, after many screw ups, is never discount a training method to help you achieve your goals.  So here it is.

Pick a style you think is complete BS or simply one of interest and use it consistently for 3 months.  Follow every aspect written about the training and supplement with a good diet and detail your progress throughout and compare the final results to what your prior stats were.

Some ideas:

Strongman
HST
HVT
HIT
GVT
Doggcrapp
5x5
Olympic lifting
Westside Barbell
Milos Giant Sets

I'll leave this up for a while to see if it generates interest and if anybody agrees.  If you take the challenge you will need to use the Training Log Board to give us the play-by-play.  If nothing else this should be fun to see unfold.

Edit:  (thank you haider) If there is enough interest (say 5-8 people at least) we will set a date to start and finish.  Pics are welcome but certainly not mandatory.  If you decide to post a pic at the end I would only ask that you use a paper in the picture, showing the date, as 240 asked of the Getbig contestants.




SO FAR WE HAVE:
webcke_112: HST
Haider: HST
Thewickedtruth: DC
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: haider on September 24, 2007, 06:26:15 PM
I'll do HST, but I need 2 weeks before Ramadan ends. You can count on me for this one, I've had a detailed journal already so Ive been in the business for some time now  8) Maybe this time with pics as well  ;)
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: haider on September 25, 2007, 05:23:22 PM
I forgot I'm gonna be doing therapy for my back so #1, I could be out of this #2, given enough time until the "start" time my back could be fully recovered or #3, I'll have to run the cycle without squats and deadlifts  :P
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: Zach Trowbridge on October 06, 2007, 12:04:45 PM
Sign me up for HIT - I did it for a while when I was a teenager, and it worked well.  Time to dust off some Dorian training articles.
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: Cap on October 07, 2007, 09:03:57 AM
Will do.
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: Zach Trowbridge on October 07, 2007, 10:19:13 AM
Will do.

Now that I'm looking at the literal definitions of HIT, I'm thinking that what I would like to do is technically called "Blood & Guts HIT" as opposed to the Nautilus/Mentzer style HIT.  Is that still cool?
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: Cap on October 07, 2007, 04:28:38 PM
Now that I'm looking at the literal definitions of HIT, I'm thinking that what I would like to do is technically called "Blood & Guts HIT" as opposed to the Nautilus/Mentzer style HIT.  Is that still cool?
How ever you want to do it.  I really want to see if people will follow through because it is easy to start but hard to finish. Trust me, I know.   ;D
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: haider on October 07, 2007, 04:48:21 PM
We should get more people to sign up- we talk a whole bunch of shit, some of us have gotta back it up ;)
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: Cap on October 07, 2007, 09:12:38 PM
That's why I made this.   ;D  Many guys either talk shit about a program or most likely don't work out too hard.  I also think it would be good to disspell myths about certain training ideas or philosophies. 

So far:

Haider-HST?
Zach T-Blood and  Guts
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: Zach Trowbridge on October 08, 2007, 10:04:31 PM
Anybody else?  I'm getting excited about this - I'm finishing up on a 12-week periodization cycle now, so I'm looking for a change.  I even ordered Dorian's book - I'm going all out and following his program to the T, assuming all the equipment is available at my gym.
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: webcake on October 14, 2007, 04:55:18 AM
I think ill give HST a shot. I won't start it for a couple of weeks though.
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: Cap on October 14, 2007, 11:20:10 AM
You three guys decide on a date on here and lay out what you are going to do.  This should be a cool experience.
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: thewickedtruth on October 14, 2007, 11:30:15 AM
I'm doing rest/pause training right now...now i'd have to change that or keep going with it? either way I'm down...I'll do the powerlifting or the 5x5 for a few weeks if I must changed my current training style for this.. either way i'm down!  :)
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: gtbro1 on October 14, 2007, 11:34:17 AM
  I'll try the system of one workout per month...you know,to combat overtraining.
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: Cap on October 14, 2007, 11:52:09 AM
I'm doing rest/pause training right now...now i'd have to change that or keep going with it? either way I'm down...I'll do the powerlifting or the 5x5 for a few weeks if I must changed my current training style for this.. either way i'm down!  :)
I would say the rest pause training is fine.  You are trying to get stronger each week and use rest pause, which is very similar to DC.  You could classify it under that if you'd like.
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: thewickedtruth on October 14, 2007, 12:13:04 PM
I would say the rest pause training is fine.  You are trying to get stronger each week and use rest pause, which is very similar to DC.  You could classify it under that if you'd like.

sweet! I'm in!
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: haider on October 14, 2007, 06:39:27 PM
I'd like to see the "lamefalsehood" character participate in this too  :D
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: Zach Trowbridge on October 15, 2007, 06:37:29 AM
Who wants to start when?  I'll probably be ready to start as of Nov. 1.

So far we've got:

Me - Blood & Guts HIT
Haider - HST
webcke - HST
thewickedtruth - rest-pause/DC

Anybody else?
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: haider on October 15, 2007, 01:17:43 PM
I'd like to change over to Conjugated Periodization, even though its extremely similar to HST.  :)
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: haider on October 15, 2007, 07:53:45 PM
I've officially started my routine today, great to be back in the gym bitches  8)
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: webcake on October 15, 2007, 09:16:54 PM
Who wants to start when?  I'll probably be ready to start as of Nov. 1.

So far we've got:

Me - Blood & Guts HIT
Haider - HST
webcke - HST
thewickedtruth - rest-pause/DC

Anybody else?

Ill be able to start on the 1st of November as-well. So how long do it for? Couple of months?
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: webcake on October 15, 2007, 09:17:51 PM
Ok just re-read, 3 months. Sweet, looking foward to it :)
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: Zach Trowbridge on October 16, 2007, 03:00:54 PM
Everybody tell me how you think this works for a format:

12 weeks, starting November 1, which would take us into the end of January.  Each participant should have his weight, bodyfat, and normal circumference measurements taken within 3 days of starting.  We'll each have our own thread on the training log board to track progress.

Also, I was thinking just simple front and rear relaxed pics at the beginning and at the end.  Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: haider on October 17, 2007, 02:57:45 PM
I started already though, I guess I'll do measurements and everything now and at Nov. 1 as well, as long as I follow it for the 3 months following November?


P.S.: MY ASS IS SO FVNCIKG SORE FROM THE 1ST WORKOUT. NO HOMO COMMENTS PLEASE
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: thelamefalsehood on October 18, 2007, 03:12:05 PM
I just started Westside style on October 14th after 15 years of all the others. So put me down as the Westside Experiment. I'll keep it intense brothers, AAHHHRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: thewickedtruth on October 18, 2007, 03:16:02 PM
I just started Westside style on October 14th after 15 years of all the others. So put me down as the Westside Experiment. I'll keep it intense brothers, AAHHHRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!

HAHA you haven't updated your log in awhile bro! I thought you were all about BRINGING THE PAIN!!!!  ;D
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: thelamefalsehood on October 18, 2007, 04:47:01 PM
HAHA you haven't updated your log in awhile bro! I thought you were all about BRINGING THE PAIN!!!!  ;D

I'll keep bringing it, need some inspiration to put it on paper again, keep your eyes out, I'll update soonAAHHRRRR!!!
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: webcake on October 23, 2007, 02:16:33 AM
Just thought id say that i will be doing HST in conjunction with a cutting diet.

I know this is the training board, but what about a simple low carb-high protein diet and throw in a couple of high carb days in there every so often? I just want something simple and effective, and low carb seems to be pretty popular.
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: Cap on October 23, 2007, 10:10:59 AM
Just thought id say that i will be doing HST in conjunction with a cutting diet.

I know this is the training board, but what about a simple low carb-high protein diet and throw in a couple of high carb days in there every so often? I just want something simple and effective, and low carb seems to be pretty popular.
I would go for it, it will certainly help ramp up the metabolism.  Feel free to include diet.  Perhaps that could be one way to help rate the effectiveness. 
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: Honour on October 26, 2007, 07:40:59 AM
I still need more time to find my normal training groove but this is a great thread idea and I for one will be watching everyones results etc :).
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: Zach Trowbridge on October 31, 2007, 01:41:12 PM
Since Nov. 1 is tomorrow, is everybody still on for this?  I'll be posting pics, measurements, lifts in the morning.  Who else?
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: webcake on October 31, 2007, 05:31:47 PM
I think ill still give it a go. I wont be able to start till Monday (5th). Pics may take a bit longer though.
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: Zach Trowbridge on November 02, 2007, 10:58:27 AM
Got my pics and measurements taken.  Just forgot everything at work so I'll upload it all on Saturday.  Did my first full-fledged blood & guts workout for chest/biceps/abs yesterday, and I'm sore as shit.  I'll start a new thread over on the training log side for more details.
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: gtbro1 on November 03, 2007, 04:52:00 AM
  Got my 1 workout in...now it's time to rest and grow. Talk to ya again in December.
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: webcake on November 03, 2007, 05:23:33 AM
  Got my 1 workout in...now it's time to rest and grow. Talk to ya again in December.
Hows that system workin out for you? Might wanna cut it back to every 6 weeks, you know, to prevent overtraining.
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: gtbro1 on November 03, 2007, 05:36:47 AM
Hows that system workin out for you? Might wanna cut it back to every 6 weeks, you know, to prevent overtraining.

   you might be right...I would hate to be in a catabolic state. :(
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: webcake on November 03, 2007, 07:47:07 PM
Well i start HST and my cutting diet tomorrow. Took a while to write out the HST program due to the fact that you have to know all your weights you will be working with, but its done and am very keen to start it. Ill post up measurements and stats soon, as for pics, might take a bit longer. Anyway, good luck to everyone who is starting/already started their new training.
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: haider on November 04, 2007, 05:23:43 PM
Took pics today, relaxed from front and back and some "mandatories". Will be keeping these to myself ;D

I did some measurements abt 2 weeks ago, but I will be taking more tomorrow.
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: overcome on November 05, 2007, 08:25:14 AM
sorry guys, I'd be down to try this with you all, but I'll be headed back home in a little over a month and a half, and it will take another months and a half to get home.  access to a gym is going to be sparatic, and I will have constant changing of equipment due to different gyms at different fobs and bases.

If you ever do it again i'll be down for it.
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: thewickedtruth on November 05, 2007, 08:40:54 AM
I'm going ot do the westside template until this is over for now. I love it and it was time for a change. In the process, I'm going to gun for the texas state record raw deadlift in the spring at the texas state meet!
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: Zach Trowbridge on November 05, 2007, 12:19:43 PM
Just posted my first week of training over on the training log board, if anyone's interested.
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: Zach Trowbridge on November 08, 2007, 04:03:00 PM
How's everybody else doing with their programs so far?  Almost 2 weeks into mine and making good strength gains so far.  Working on staying consistent with a good offseason diet as well, which should help a ton.
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: webcake on November 08, 2007, 10:18:23 PM
Surprisingly tough. Just finished the 1st week, so at the end of next week i will be doing all 10 reps instead of 15 reps for 2 weeks, then after that down to 5 reps. When you use such lightweight but use really strict, controlled form, it is a lot harder than you think. I mean lat raises with 15lb dumbbells doesn't sound too tough, but when you really focus on using the delts to lift them, it surprisingly tough. All in all good though, looking forward to the 5 rep weeks. Id recommend it for someone wanting a change from the typical workouts.
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: Zach Trowbridge on November 13, 2007, 04:10:11 PM
Halfway through Week 3 and this is kicking my ass.  I never realized how much I cut my sets short when I hit a certain number before, as opposed to going to complete failure.  I'm progressing faster than I think I have in a loooooooooooong time, which is good because I've been stuck at some shitty numbers for a while now.  Already gained about 2 1/2 lbs as of this morning, although I'm sure some of that's a little bit of extra water.  I'm going to try to go through the first 4 weeks with just standard sets, and then add in drop sets and rest-pause reps the last 8 weeks.  No forced reps here unfortunately, as I work out alone.
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: webcake on November 20, 2007, 06:26:34 PM
Unfortunately i've come down with a stomach bug, so have missed the last week and a half of training and diet. Very frustrating, but hey thats life.

The only good news is that because i'm sick and haven't been eating much, ive lost 2 inches of my waist. :D
Anyway, hopefully by monday ill be back to normal and can get back into the diet and training.

How are all you guys finding your programs so far?
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: haider on November 20, 2007, 06:29:28 PM
Ive been fcvked cuz of school, I loose!  >:(
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: Swedish Viking on November 27, 2007, 09:33:49 PM
I'll do it, but only if I can bend the rules just slightly.  I'd like to do a mix of Arthur Jones HIT and Yates/Mentzer Heavy Duty.  So basically full body workouts for a period of time and then split workouts for a period of time.  Not 3 months each.  I'll be honest and dilligent about recording all of it down, if it's permissable. 
  Thing is, I just started working out again after a LONG lay off, and I am going to grow for a while no matter what I do, so I don't know how great of an indicator I'll be.  I still really want to do it though.  Let me in?

    ps.  I'll still be eating all raw of course.
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: Cap on November 28, 2007, 06:59:02 AM
I'll do it, but only if I can bend the rules just slightly.  I'd like to do a mix of Arthur Jones HIT and Yates/Mentzer Heavy Duty.  So basically full body workouts for a period of time and then split workouts for a period of time.  Not 3 months each.  I'll be honest and dilligent about recording all of it down, if it's permissable. 
  Thing is, I just started working out again after a LONG lay off, and I am going to grow for a while no matter what I do, so I don't know how great of an indicator I'll be.  I still really want to do it though.  Let me in?

    ps.  I'll still be eating all raw of course.
I don't see why not. Both are facets of HIT, just different body splits.  So would you do 6 weeks full body and 6 weeks Yates split?
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: Swedish Viking on November 28, 2007, 01:19:43 PM
Something like that...but the point is, I keep track of whatever I did, so however many weeks of whatever it turned out to be, it'd all be on paper anyway.
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: webcake on December 02, 2007, 02:37:16 AM
Looking forward to tomorrow, first time back in the gym in 3 weeks (been busy with shit and then got pretty sick). So starting tomorrow, back to training and diet (cutting), only problem, like most ppl, this is a pretty busy time of year, but will try to stay consistent as best i can.

I'm loving HST, how you guys finding your training?
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: Zach Trowbridge on December 15, 2007, 11:32:40 AM
Everything (for the most part) is humming along well.  Incline barbell press has gone up by about 15 lbs since I started, I'd say roughly a 5-8% increase in weight for most of the exercises I'm doing so far.  The only crap factor is that I tweaked my lower back deadlifting a couple weeks back so my leg workouts are kind of limited - just leg extensions, curls, and hack squats, plus calf training. 

And I'm starting a job in January as an assistant fitness manager at a very nicely equipped Gold's Gym that has one of the Nautilus pullovers, so I'll be adding that sucker into my back routine soon.
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: webcake on December 15, 2007, 07:50:58 PM
Im currently not too happy with how things are going. The cutting diet had pretty much been put on hold just due to the fact that i had a stomach bug for a week (didn't think it would be a good idea to go straight back to a strict diet), busy time of year (obviously) and im missing workouts. Thats the only problem with HST, as the workouts get heavier, they take longer. Im now about to start the 5 rep weeks, but the 10 rep weeks were killing me. The workouts were going for over 2 hrs, and that was me trying to be as quick as possible. Tried splitting it into an AM/PM split, but thats too time consuming for the most people.

Ill stick to HST and give it another go. Ill have more free time after the new year, so ill definietly be more committed to training and the diet.
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: Deicide on December 15, 2007, 08:40:44 PM
Im currently not too happy with how things are going. The cutting diet had pretty much been put on hold just due to the fact that i had a stomach bug for a week (didn't think it would be a good idea to go straight back to a strict diet), busy time of year (obviously) and im missing workouts. Thats the only problem with HST, as the workouts get heavier, they take longer. Im now about to start the 5 rep weeks, but the 10 rep weeks were killing me. The workouts were going for over 2 hrs, and that was me trying to be as quick as possible. Tried splitting it into an AM/PM split, but thats too time consuming for the most people.

Ill stick to HST and give it another go. Ill have more free time after the new year, so ill definietly be more committed to training and the diet.

A) I thought you had great genetics so none of the above should be a problem.
B) HST should be short; if you need 2 hours for ANY workout, something is fundamentally wrong with your training. 45 minutes to an hour and you are out of there. Even with juice 2 hours is way too long and even with your genetics. If you had been making progress with a 2 hour workout, you must truly be a genetic freak?!
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: webcake on December 15, 2007, 10:30:50 PM
A) I thought you had great genetics so none of the above should be a problem.
B) HST should be short; if you need 2 hours for ANY workout, something is fundamentally wrong with your training. 45 minutes to an hour and you are out of there. Even with juice 2 hours is way too long and even with your genetics. If you had been making progress with a 2 hour workout, you must truly be a genetic freak?!

Whilst i am a genetic freak, i think you will find that for almost anyone, HST will take longer than 45-60 mins. Remember it is a full body workout. You cant just go from one exercise to another (well you can right at the beginning, the start of the 15 rep weeks) as the weights get heavier, you need to rest between sets and exercises. Ill time myself tomorrow in the gym (beginning of the 5 rep weeks) and see what happens. See if i can cut down the time.
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: Deicide on December 15, 2007, 10:35:34 PM
Whilst i am a genetic freak, i think you will find that for almost anyone, HST will take longer than 45-60 mins. Remember it is a full body workout. You cant just go from one exercise to another (well you can right at the beginning, the start of the 15 rep weeks) as the weights get heavier, you need to rest between sets and exercises. Ill time myself tomorrow in the gym (beginning of the 5 rep weeks) and see what happens. See if i can cut down the time.

Not true; yes, you need to rest but on 5 rep weeks? Come on.

My last HST cycle looked like this:

Shoulder Dumbbell Press x2
Latpull Downs x2
Bench x2
Seated Rows x2
Skullcrushers x1
Seated Curls x1
Deadlifts x2
Squats x2
Alternatively abs or calves x2

45 minutes, finished.
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: haider on December 15, 2007, 10:40:40 PM
he's right..

Your workouts shouldnt excede more than an hour and a half, and that includes warmups. Without warmups any workout should be an hour or less.
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: haider on December 15, 2007, 10:42:24 PM
Not true; yes, you need to rest but on 5 rep weeks? Come on.

My last HST cycle looked like this:

Shoulder Dumbbell Press x2
Latpull Downs x2
Bench x2
Seated Rows x2
Skullcrushers x1
Seated Curls x1
Deadlifts x2
Squats x2
Alternatively abs or calves x2

45 minutes, finished.

how th fvck do u swqt atfer dealidftin?
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: webcake on December 15, 2007, 10:44:14 PM
Not true; yes, you need to rest but on 5 rep weeks? Come on.

My last HST cycle looked like this:

Shoulder Dumbbell Press x2
Latpull Downs x2
Bench x2
Seated Rows x2
Skullcrushers x1
Seated Curls x1
Deadlifts x2
Squats x2
Alternatively abs or calves x2

45 minutes, finished.


Well it appears i am doing more exercises than you did. Im doing:
flat bench
Incline
Military press
lat raise
barbell row
pulldowns
squat
leg press
SLDL
lying leg curl
DB curls
preacher
close grip bench
dips
standing calf raise
toe press

More than you are doing, but if you read about HST is states that you can choose 2 exercises per bodypart. This is my 1st time doing HST, next time i might only do 1 exercise per bodypart.
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: haider on December 15, 2007, 10:46:31 PM
holy shit man I gotat give u props for doing something that intense but REALLY man cut down on the exercises, evenwhat trapezkerl prescribes is too much IMO.

You need to alternate exercises from one workout to the toher if u want to have that exercise selection. I'm feelin too lazy right now to post up a sample but u could find it from a quick search.
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: Deicide on December 15, 2007, 10:48:37 PM
Well it appears i am doing more exercises than you did. Im doing:
flat bench
Incline
Military press
lat raise
barbell row
pulldowns
squat
leg press
SLDL
lying leg curl
DB curls
preacher
close grip bench
dips
standing calf raise
toe press

More than you are doing, but if you read about HST is states that you can choose 2 exercises per bodypart. This is my 1st time doing HST, next time i might only do 1 exercise per bodypart.

Biceps and Triceps are tiny muscles and both get worked via bench and back exercises, hence 1x for them.

You are doing way too many exercises. Keep the number of Sets to 16 or below.
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: webcake on December 15, 2007, 10:51:09 PM
Yes i do agree that it is probably too much. I just read that in HST, you can choose 2 exercises per bodypart. This is the 1st time ive done HST and im almost finished it, so when i go back for the 2nd time, i may only do one exercise per bodypart. The funny thing is that ive actually seen results from this though.
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: Swedish Viking on December 16, 2007, 12:40:04 AM
Can someone explain HST to me??
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: Deicide on December 16, 2007, 06:31:03 AM
Can someone explain HST to me??

Someone can. ;D
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: webcake on December 16, 2007, 04:23:32 PM
I can't, obviously i don't know what the fuck i'm doing :D
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: Brandon 805 on December 26, 2007, 11:36:51 AM
im in i am starting HIT today! i will post a starting pic when i get home from work
Title: Re: Open challenge
Post by: Devon97 on December 28, 2007, 09:34:40 AM
I just started Westside style on October 14th after 15 years of all the others. So put me down as the Westside Experiment. I'll keep it intense brothers, AAHHHRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!

This cracks me up more than anything... guys who claim to do "Westside" .
NEWSFLASH  If you dont train at WESTSIDE BARBELL then your not training "Westside" .......get it?