no way-- no detail in arms whatsoever---seen a lot better--- but he does have other dominating poses for sure!!! bad choice of pic and i like dorian too!
don't get me wrong--he's on the money hitting it--- but that pose goes out to those with much smaller waist lines n' dramatic shoulder width-- ie lee haney, buchanan, hell--even dennis is giving him a run for his money.....sergio oliva(although not as conditioned but way more dramatic).... i just don't think of him when i hear of that pose--turn around---thats another story
Yates or Ronnie.Yates owns the front and rear lat spreads.
no way-- no detail in arms whatsoever---seen a lot better--- but he does have other dominating poses for sure!!! bad choice of pic and i like dorian too!
exactly.I love it when you meltdown, anytime anyone says something praising Dorian.
dorian had great lats, but he was smooth as a babies ass in that pose. actually, most of the poses from the front..
I mean honestly: :-\
..
94 No less. and No detail either.
.It's his worst year.
Although, this MAY not be the " best front lat spread of all time " I think this surely up there !torso too long, crazy chest and legs though. Brutal work ethic as well :D
torso too long, crazy chest and legs though. Brutal work ethic as well :D
you shut your mouth when you talk to him.
?dont worry abt him, he isn't able to talk straight with pole in his mouth :D
Everyone else go home...
Everyone else go home...
Everyone else go home...8) I got to agree with this guy ! in fact its the greatest physique of all time !
puuuulease!!! this guy has it hands down!!!hahahahhaa, you look good but fucck man you've got some narrow ass clavicles.
how about this..!NAW HE HAS STRUCTURAL FLAW AND WEAK BODY LINES ;D
NAW HE HAS STRUCTURAL FLAW AND WEAK BODY LINES ;Dthat s his offsason man,
Ronnie doesn't come close to Haney or Yates in the front latspread and never did .
dorian had great lats, but was so god damn smooth and devoid of detail you can't even tell if he is in contest shape or not: :-\
now this is a great lat spread.
wide thick lats.
narrow waist.
and DETAIL esp in the pecs and arms. something that dorian did not have, as we can clearly see.
not saying Ronnie had the best lat spread ever, but it WAS much better than dorian's.\
So, to answer the question posed in this thread: NO dorian did NOT have the greatest front lat spread of all time.
Neither did Ronnie, although like all the other poses, his was better than the early 90's Mr. O.
I think that the nod to best lat spread goes to Haney.
Look how crappy Dorian's arms are, you mutherfukkers must be blind
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=173167.0;attach=204659;image)
just because they don't look like Ronnies doesn't mean they're crappy !
Uhh........yes it does ;)
No they don't they were good enough , especially to hand Ronnie and his fantastic arms his ass for 6 years ! ;)
Please don't insult my intelligence and act as if these "contests" are fair competitions.
Yates rules if you like nice smooth, smallish arms as part of the equation. :-\
I forgot, arms don't matter in this pose. ::)
No just when Ronnie won for 8 straight ::)
once again, retard ND getting owned by everyone.. ::)
Same collection of parts , same flaws Haney & Yates crush Ronnie in this shot
ND is right Yates owns this pose. No one else is close. And hulkster I like you but whenn I read your post about dorian f-in yates being smooth.... it dropped my respect for you. :(
Dorian owns this pose , looking at the complete package, Dorian's arms were not as bad as Ronnie's LACK of calves... ;)
ND is right Yates owns this pose. No one else is close. And hulkster I like you but whenn I read your post about dorian f-in yates being smooth.... it dropped my respect for you. :(
dorian was smooth in the arms and quads.
believing the hype and not using your eyes has dropped my respect for YOU :P
honestly: :-\
I love how you claim ronnie has all these flaws and then you post 4 shots of dorian showing the smoothest arms, chest and quads in front lat spread history.. ::)
you really have no clue do you? :-\
probably why everyone is ganging up on you: you don't know what you are talking about.
Check out how dry and huge cutlers was in 2004
Hell he was beating Coleman in this shot ! even Cutler has a better front latspread than Coleman
yet harp on pics that everyone says don't do Yates justice
I don't want to even get into how downright ugly Yates' quad were.
Fucking deformed
twigs on a barrel = shitty balance and proportion.
hope this helps. ::)
tell me about it.
ND is just blind and stupid.
I hate to say this as I love Ronnie but at least Yates isnt an oil user :-\
as in calves . . .
I love it when you meltdown, anytime anyone says something praising Dorian.
Deep seated insecurites.
and your proof of this accusation is....
and don't bother posting a pic of a smooth calf and saying its oil.
because ronnie has had smooth calves since 1992...long before injections became popular..
yeah small smooth calves and all the sudden they became large smooth calves lol see a trend here? there is a very high probability Coleman's calves aren't all muscle , just ask Nasser lol
LOL yeah, because the rest of ronnie never became large... ::)
Great post ! this man speaks the truth.
ND has found a friend amidst a sea of enemies. LOL
You kids can argue all day long, but it's clearly Ronnie Coleman.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=172772.0;attach=201364;image)(http://www.musculardevelopment.com/photos/transferred/FB7T8041.jpg)
best front lat spread of all time?
discuss.
Studio pics with manipulated light/shadow should not be admissable. B/W pics should not be allowed full stop.
I say Lee Haney wins. But 2003 Ronnie is pretty damn scary in the front lat spread!
the pic that made Hulkster go off the deep end ;D
not me. why do you always get the most simple facts wrong? ::) fact is, many on getbig were talking about the obvious shop job before I ever even knew about the pic..
its hilarious to compare that pic to any other dorian pic in existance though. its great for a laugh and it shows what modern digital editing can do:
not me. why do you always get the most simple facts wrong? ::) fact is, many on getbig were talking about the obvious shop job before I ever even knew about the pic..
its hilarious to compare that pic to any other dorian pic in existance though. its great for a laugh and it shows what modern digital editing can do:
(http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/nuclear_blast.jpg)
;D GetBig says it's fake the photographer who took the pic says its untouched ;) Hulkster still hasn't recovered
Exactly. They all know it smashes everyone, they don't even try to debate it. Instead, they immediately try to claim it's a fake.
The photographer of the pic said specifically it was UNTOUCHED
LOL what the fuck do you expect him to say? LOL
::) ::)
man, you must live a sheltered existance.. :-\
LOL what the fuck do you expect him to say? LOL
::) ::)
man, you must live a sheltered existance.. :-\
282 pounds in that pic Dorian is untouchable and Hulkster says he doesn't look the same when he's lighter LMMFAO no duh
newsflash: he doesn't look like that when he was heavier than 282 pounds either..
::)
Oh back to calling him a liar? ;)
Hulkster I'll let you in on a little secret one pic is pre-contest and the other is off-season ;D ;)
Hulkster I know you don't know much about competitive bodybuilding but it helps to do some reading before you try and talk on the subject or you run the risk of looking like a moron ;)
still can't tell the difference between a puroposely deceiptful lie and simply being mistaken, can you?
::)
I think everyone can make up their own minds about the pic, its blatantly obvious, besides, its only the three nuthuggers who think its untouched anyway..and thats only because they need it to fit their agenda..
There's really no risk with Huckster, it's pretty much a guarantee. lol
mistaken? he took the photo seen the one posted by bodybuilding.com and told YOU specifically it was untouched , once again Hulkster denies the experts
Hulkster I'll let you in on a little secret one pic is pre-contest and the other is off-season
newsflash: he doesn't look like that when he was heavier than 282 pounds either..
::)
Caption: "Well, I guess it's back to selling soiled underwear."
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=173167.0;attach=334300;image)
LOL so dorian now has shawn ray's waistline at 282 pounds in precontest for the shoot, but had fat bastards waistline at 270 pounds in dieted down contest shape for the 97 olympia?
lol
::)
you make no sense at all..
there is a reason why only you and your bitches believe the pic is untouched..
and your proving it right now with these hilarious explanations lol
(http://www.teenbodybuilding.com/wheele100.jpg)
(http://img178.echo.cx/img178/7783/ronniecolemanfrontlatspread5ku.gif)
Meltdown continues still ;)
You'd think Huckster would believe the photo to be valid, I'm mean after all, photos are "real life" according to Huckster. They are to be believed over and above first hand live viewing. Though, for a man that sharpens pics as much as he does, he really should be able to spot a touched up pic, I guess.
stumped you with that one, didn't I?
your failing miserably with your attempts to explain the pic, just so you know.
but its funny to watch.
pics are only wrong when it's Yates this is the dummy
ronnie 99 takes the title of best ever lat spread: he has good arms, a trim waist, great pec detail (all things that dorian's front lat spread lacks) in addition to great lats and cut quads (again, a dorian weak point): its not even close:
no, pics are wrong that are clearly shopped, like this one from a dorian pic page.
it seems dorian has fair number of obviously shopped photos out there..
it doesnt take a rocket scientist to immediately tell the fake ones from the legit ones...
oh wait, you seem to being having trouble with this, aren't you? LOL
if the photographer insisted this shot was untouched, you'd believe it too:
::)
if the photographer insisted this shot was untouched, you'd believe it too:
::)
A professional photographer would never do that. The real shame is that we all know Horton has more shots of Yates from prior to the '95 Olympia, that we have yet to see. If he released them, all of you trolls would be on suicide watch.
I know you're think it's fake because of his quads but check this shot out insane quads here too now you're out of excuses
you have the nerve to talk about common sense given your attempts at explaining the pic? ::)
hahahaha
your fucked ND. totally fucked
^
LOL
seriously comparing any dorian pic in existance to the new pic is fucking hilarious.
keep calling Horton a liar it proves how stupid you are
its not that 'he doesnt look the same'
its that his waist is massive at 269 yet shawn ray trim to a level never seen in his career ever at a much heavier 282 pounds in the new pic.
and your dumb enough to think that makes sense LOL
you crack me up with your bizarro delusions ND.
keep it up. its comedy gold.
show us where I said that. please do LOL
LOL so now your saying that dorian was able to increase his quad sweep with the added size, yet keep his waist size the same? LOL
newsflash: whenever dorian got bigger, his waist got bigger along with the rest of him.
this is fact.
your not getting out of this one ND, as much as you try.
the hole your digging is getting deeper (and funnier) by the minute..
more facts of life for ND:
^
LOL
ND needs glasses.
hahahaha a 269 pound Dorian doesn't look like a 282 pound one and an offseason Dorian at 300 doesn't look like a precontest one at 282 and I need glasses
still waiting for the quote Flowerboy..
its funny how you completely ignore what is actually different about the new dorian pic vs any dorian pic (waist size/quad sweep) in your statement.
::)
you need glasses and a new brain buddy.
your quote stupid , you're accusing him of A) manipulating the pic himself or B) a second part doing it which he seen and decided to cover up for them by saying it's ' untouched '
your pulling this stuff out your ass now. ::)
classic meltdown.
To whom its all concerned NO One has ever beat Dorrian is the front lat spread shot ;)
its funny how you completely ignore what is actually different about the new dorian pic vs any dorian pic (waist size/quad sweep) in your statement.
::)
you need glasses and a new brain buddy.
Here's a lighter Dorian exhibiting exemplary quad sweep. Huckster = owned!
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=69359.0;attach=332977;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=173167.0;attach=334382;image)
LOL
you guys are hitting new lows.
so, now you are arguing dorian added 50+ pounds of muscle, and kept the waist size the same, all the while while losing both the quad sweep and trim waist both in contest pics, precontest pics and offseason shots for the rest of his career?
still waiting for that quote Mr. quotes
where is it?
oh thats right. I never accused Horton of anything.
nope. Kevin is not lying. he believes it is the original.
just as Peter Mcgough honestly believes Ronnie was softer in 99 than in 98 8).
doesnt mean either one of them are correct in their beliefs, as everyone has seen thanks to mountains and mountains of unaltered pics and videos.. :P
other than you two with your agenda, of course.. ::)
well, lets see when more pics from the shoot surface..
if the pic is real, there should be lots of them.
time will tell..
but don't hold your breath LOL
There are no signs that that pic, in and of itself has been worked.
Put 2 + 2 together numb nuts. You've constantly insisted that the photo is a fake, ergo you've accused Horton of lying about the photo when he has affirmed that it is, in fact, the untouched original.exactly
nope. Kevin is not lying. he believes it is the original.
just as Peter Mcgough honestly believes Ronnie was softer in 99 than in 98 8).
doesnt mean either one of them are correct in their beliefs, as everyone has seen thanks to mountains and mountains of unaltered pics and videos.. :P
other than you two with your agenda, of course.. ::)
the onus is one YOU to provide proof
Out of anyone, Kevin would KNOW the pic is the original.
yeah, the fact that dorian has shawn ray's waist, with tom platz's quads sweep, all while at a massive 282 pounds.. unlike all other photos of him at high bodyweights.. contest or otherwise..is not a sign at all. LOL ::)
you have been hanging off ND's balls for FAR too long, apparently..
there is no point in beating this topic to death.
you have your agenda and you have to say what fits with it, whether it fits with reality, or not:
umm..there is lots of proof out there:
you guys just come up with excuse #839584750984765 why it doesn't apply..
::)
there is no point in beating this topic to death.
you have your agenda and you have to say what fits with it, whether it fits with reality, or not:
Yeah but, aren't pics real life??
as you said before, clear shop jobs are not real life morons..
::)
note the difference:
wow those are ALL from the same photoshoot? ???
yeah, dorian did hip shrinking excercises and miraculously added tons of quad sweep for that shoot only, then he got burned out and his waist grew back and his quads shrunk by the end of the week.
it was all drugs anyway LOL
yeah, dorian did hip shrinking excercises and miraculously added tons of quad sweep for that shoot only, then he got burned out and his waist grew back and his quads shrunk by the end of the week.
it was all drugs anyway LOL
(http://athlete.ru/fotos/profi/dorian/dorian_yates_002.jpg)
speaking of looking good, dorian 95 does look GREAT when you add ronnie 2004's quad sweep to his physique.. LMAO.
speaking of looking good, dorian 95 does look GREAT when you add ronnie 2004's quad sweep to his physique.. LMAO.
No offense dude, but ronnie's ab and thigh was terrible later on in his career. His midsection completely throws off his entire physique. I cant stop looking at the torn left quad, and the lack of calves really bugs me.
just one white mans opinion.
There you go again using morphed pics Huckster, nobody's calves could possibly be that small. ;D
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=173167.0;attach=334427;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=172772.0;attach=201364;image)
best front lat spread of all time?
discuss.
commonsense would dictate otherwise something you're severely lacking in ;D geee Dorian doesn't look the same as he does when he's lighter and offseason I'm still laughing my fucking ass off at that one , ranks right up there with Dorian lost in 93 and Ronnie's calves are more detailed than Dorians ;DOWNED
I know you're think it's fake because of his quads but check this shot out ;) insane quads here too now you're out of excuses ;D
Haney and Yates with their weak arms relative to torsos and smaller shoulders can't touch this. Oliva with Haney's waist and a huge advantage in size.
Those guys can't compete on lower body either, or X-taper.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=173167.0;attach=334433;image)
Haney and Yates with their weak arms relative to torsos and smaller shoulders can't touch this. Oliva with Haney's waist and a huge advantage in size.
Those guys can't compete on lower body either, or X-taper.
OWNED
Dorian can't touch that? ::) in what aspect? muscular bulk? Dorian is 282 pounds in that pic and Sergio is probably about 240 in that one
Someone who stoops to bodyweight comparisons as the measure doesn't comprehend judging criterion. ;)
High lats LOL
still better than anything Coleman has shown
I personally think this is better than anything Dorian can offer. Ronnie has smaller waist, actual abs on this occasion, perfect delt/arm balance, definitely better quads, calves not as good but big enough to be proportional with those great quads. And obviously lats are great too. Chest detail is exceptional also.
I guess is partly depends what you're looking for; lats that stand out because they are basically ahead of the other body parts, or a whole physique which has crazy lats but every other body part developed to the maximum also. I always thought every bodypart was being marked in every pose, so I'd have to go with the Ronnie pic. Also, I was under the impression judges only marked physiques on the stage, not in a studio or backstage etc.
I guess is partly depends what you're looking for; lats that stand out because they are basically ahead of the other body parts, or a whole physique which has crazy lats but every other body part developed to the maximum also. I always thought every bodypart was being marked in every pose, so I'd have to go with the Ronnie pic. Also, I was under the impression judges only marked physiques on the stage, not in a studio or backstage etc.
The front lat spread really highlights the quads ...Dorians quads look weird and strange...thus he can never own this pose...
Jeff king's Quads in that pic look sick...
I personally think this is better than anything Dorian can offer. Ronnie has smaller waist, actual abs on this occasion, perfect delt/arm balance, definitely better quads, calves not as good but big enough to be proportional with those great quads. And obviously lats are great too. Chest detail is exceptional also.
I guess is partly depends what you're looking for; lats that stand out because they are basically ahead of the other body parts, or a whole physique which has crazy lats but every other body part developed to the maximum also. I always thought every bodypart was being marked in every pose, so I'd have to go with the Ronnie pic. Also, I was under the impression judges only marked physiques on the stage, not in a studio or backstage etc.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=173167.0;attach=334302;image)
The front lat spread really highlights the quads ...Dorians quads look weird and strange...thus he can never own this pose...
Jeff king's Quads in that pic look sick...
Density & Dryness clear cut advantage for Dorian any year almost any weight , this isn't open for discussion
actual abs? his abdominals were never great you're reaching at straws mentioning them , smaller waist sure , perfect arm/delt balance? are we looking at the same pic? ??? most of the arm is biceps , better quads that serve to highlight his pathetic calves? no advantage in that case , this is where you're just flat out wrong his calves while being pathetic are most certainly NOT proportionate to his voluminous quads that's just not open for discussion and his lats look good overall this is one of his better front latspreads but not in Dorian's league
it doesn't depend on what ' you're ' looking for it depends on what the judges are looking for !
Muscular Bulk now dependent on what year pic you want to use Dorian carries more muscular bulk than Ronnie 99 even at the same weight it doesn't matter because there is a difference between 257 pounds and 257 dense hard as nails pounds , so that's working with you . Dorian at 269 pounds has a clear advantage in muscular bulk compared to Ronnie , and forget about him at 282 pounds
Muscular Bulk - advantage Dorian
Density & Dryness clear cut advantage for Dorian any year almost any weight , this isn't open for discussion Dorian's conditioning is legendary , the only place I'm willing to concede Ronnie was equal in this aspect as 2001 ASC and maybe 1998 but at lower weights , 1999 SORRY ain't happening
Density & Dryness - advantage Dorian
Balance & proportion 1999 may be a pretty good year for Ronnie's balance however that has nothing to do with Dorian his is better , there are many aspects to balance & proportion which Dorian has a clear advantage , arm length in relation to torso , Ronnie has long arms in relation to his short torso , you don't find this with Yates , Ronnie's forearms aren't in proportion with his oversized biceps/triceps . Ronnie also has long legs and a short torso not great upper & lower body balance , way oversized quads for his unproportionate calves , you don't find this problems with Dorian AT HIS BEST ( keyword )
Balance & proportion - advantage Dorian
Posing & Presentation most of the time Ronnie can't effectively hit most of his mandatories but this particular pose is good that's why I say it's one of the much better ones he's done , we can push this
Now here is what wins a pose ALL ROUNDS ARE PHYSIQUE ROUNDS this means the judges access ALL of the criteria I just listed AT ONCE so while Ronnie may have advantage(s) in part(s) of the criteria as a whole he does NOT meet them all better than Dorian this is why Dorian beats him in this and any other pose , you can't cherry pick what you like an ignore the rest
the front latspread belongs to Yates even to this day I have not seen a better one , the only one I can think of that same close was Rhul at the NOC and even he says Dorian's is the best of all-time
note how all the bullshit words in the world can't help dorian when faced with Ronnie 99's physique:
8)
'
not open for discussion?
quick someone let reality know!:
::)
thats because dorian's quads suck. especially compared to ronnie. horrible cuts. poor shape.
he had great inner thigh rods, but thats it. when viewed head on, where most bodybuilders have great looking quads, dorian, like many front shots, was left far away in the dust by his competitors:
Hey ND you got any of those Dorrian shots that were taken in the gym i think he even had socks on - Brutal Pics;D
Now tell me who in the hell will be these shots? Huh
Still ruling everyone!
actual abs? his abdominals were never great you're reaching at straws mentioning them , smaller waist sure , perfect arm/delt balance? are we looking at the same pic? ??? most of the arm is biceps , better quads that serve to highlight his pathetic calves? no advantage in that case , this is where you're just flat out wrong his calves while being pathetic are most certainly NOT proportionate to his voluminous quads that's just not open for discussion and his lats look good overall this is one of his better front latspreads but not in Dorian's league
it doesn't depend on what ' you're ' looking for it depends on what the judges are looking for !
Muscular Bulk now dependent on what year pic you want to use Dorian carries more muscular bulk than Ronnie 99 even at the same weight it doesn't matter because there is a difference between 257 pounds and 257 dense hard as nails pounds , so that's working with you . Dorian at 269 pounds has a clear advantage in muscular bulk compared to Ronnie , and forget about him at 282 pounds
Muscular Bulk - advantage Dorian
Density & Dryness clear cut advantage for Dorian any year almost any weight , this isn't open for discussion Dorian's conditioning is legendary , the only place I'm willing to concede Ronnie was equal in this aspect as 2001 ASC and maybe 1998 but at lower weights , 1999 SORRY ain't happening
Density & Dryness - advantage Dorian
Balance & proportion 1999 may be a pretty good year for Ronnie's balance however that has nothing to do with Dorian his is better , there are many aspects to balance & proportion which Dorian has a clear advantage , arm length in relation to torso , Ronnie has long arms in relation to his short torso , you don't find this with Yates , Ronnie's forearms aren't in proportion with his oversized biceps/triceps . Ronnie also has long legs and a short torso not great upper & lower body balance , way oversized quads for his unproportionate calves , you don't find this problems with Dorian AT HIS BEST ( keyword )
Balance & proportion - advantage Dorian
Posing & Presentation most of the time Ronnie can't effectively hit most of his mandatories but this particular pose is good that's why I say it's one of the much better ones he's done , we can push this
Now here is what wins a pose ALL ROUNDS ARE PHYSIQUE ROUNDS this means the judges access ALL of the criteria I just listed AT ONCE so while Ronnie may have advantage(s) in part(s) of the criteria as a whole he does NOT meet them all better than Dorian this is why Dorian beats him in this and any other pose , you can't cherry pick what you like an ignore the rest
the front latspread belongs to Yates even to this day I have not seen a better one , the only one I can think of that same close was Rhul at the NOC and even he says Dorian's is the best of all-time
I was referring to the particular shot I posted, in which Ronnie visibly has good abs, not something he's known for, which is why I made a point of saying 'actual abs', because it's a good shot of him. If we are talking this one pose at their respective bests, then you have to look at this pic, and see that his midsection looks good.
I know it's all about what the judges are looking for, that is why I immediately mentioned the whole physique being important in every shot. The shot in question, the front lat spread, Ronnie has Dorian beat on chest size/detail, arm size/detail, delt detail, quad size/detail, and calves obviously not, but you are flat out not being truthful if you think they look "pathetic".
To be honest I'm not sure what weight has to do with this argument at all. So why you throw numbers at me is quite baffling, especially when Dorian never competed at 282 lb. If you are prepared to be awed by off-season size and totally overlook competition dryness and BF levels then I'm not sure what kind of discussion this is. Where do you think a 282lb Dorian would place in the judges eyes at any Mr Olympia with the 15lb or so of excess fat and water? 257lb Ronnie vs 257lb Dorian is interesting, but debating poundage is very intricate and hard to quantify. If Ronnie's waist is smaller doesn't that mean more of his weight is in the desired places like upper and lower body? etc etc
So muscular bulk seems pretty damn close to me.
Dryness goes to Dorian.
Symmetry, I think most people, including judges, would say Ronnie's symmetry is pretty damn spot on in this pic. If you pick fault in his arm proportions then you play with fire given your man's arms. If you think Dorian's quads aren't made to look average by their actual size and by his massive calves, then I suggest looking at him with fresh eyes. 10 years have passed and quad standards have gone up a notch also.
I'm surprised you say Ruhl's latspread is the next best after Dorian, as in the famous freaky NOC 2002 pics you can't even see his lats because his delts and bicep-heavy arms are so big. Symmetry indeed. Talk about cherry picking. Dorian's waist, while not massive at his best is still blocky enough to relegate him below Haney's alien latspread. His lack of quad sweep is highlighted by the wide waist also, they don't flare out like Ronnie's, giving him an inferior X frame appearance. Although powerful looking, he is less aesthetic in this example. You know it to be true.
Finally, of the retaliation pics you posted, only 1 was from a contest. Judges cannot mark physiques 3 weeks out in black and white. Please stop posting pics from studios and ones which are not in colour. You degrade only yourself, and I would prefer to debate with a fair and worthy opponent.
Regards,
I was referring to the particular shot I posted, in which Ronnie visibly has good abs, not something he's known for, which is why I made a point of saying 'actual abs', because it's a good shot of him. If we are talking this one pose at their respective bests, then you have to look at this pic, and see that his midsection looks good.
I know it's all about what the judges are looking for, that is why I immediately mentioned the whole physique being important in every shot. The shot in question, the front lat spread, Ronnie has Dorian beat on chest size/detail, arm size/detail, delt detail, quad size/detail, and calves obviously not, but you are flat out not being truthful if you think they look "pathetic".
To be honest I'm not sure what weight has to do with this argument at all. So why you throw numbers at me is quite baffling, especially when Dorian never competed at 282 lb. If you are prepared to be awed by off-season size and totally overlook competition dryness and BF levels then I'm not sure what kind of discussion this is. Where do you think a 282lb Dorian would place in the judges eyes at any Mr Olympia with the 15lb or so of excess fat and water? 257lb Ronnie vs 257lb Dorian is interesting, but debating poundage is very intricate and hard to quantify. If Ronnie's waist is smaller doesn't that mean more of his weight is in the desired places like upper and lower body? etc etc
Symmetry, I think most people, including judges, would say Ronnie's symmetry is pretty damn spot on in this pic. If you pick fault in his arm proportions then you play with fire given your man's arms. If you think Dorian's quads aren't made to look average by their actual size and by his massive calves, then I suggest looking at him with fresh eyes. 10 years have passed and quad standards have gone up a notch also.
I'm surprised you say Ruhl's latspread is the next best after Dorian, as in the famous freaky NOC 2002 pics you can't even see his lats because his delts and bicep-heavy arms are so big. Symmetry indeed. Talk about cherry picking. Dorian's waist, while not massive at his best is still blocky enough to relegate him below Haney's alien latspread. His lack of quad sweep is highlighted by the wide waist also, they don't flare out like Ronnie's, giving him an inferior X frame appearance. Although powerful looking, he is less aesthetic in this example. You know it to be true.
Finally, of the retaliation pics you posted, only 1 was from a contest. Judges cannot mark physiques 3 weeks out in black and white. Please stop posting pics from studios and ones which are not in colour. You degrade only yourself, and I would prefer to debate with a fair and worthy opponent.
His lack of quad sweep is highlighted by the wide waist also, they don't flare out like Ronnie's, giving him an inferior X frame appearance
wait wait!!
"modern technology" has given him one of the best quad sweeps ever! in fact, they flare out to level of Ronnie 2004! :-X
LOL
and ND can't see a problem LOL
::)
not open for discussion?
quick someone let reality know!:
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=173167.0;attach=334514;image)
::)
Huckster, you dumb shit, you just owned yourself with this pic. Yates' superior mass and density is obvious. That's reality.
hehehehehehe he constantly does that ;D look how Ronnie's pec's are sunken in and Dorians are way out and the difference in midsections is staggering as well as lats
Ya it's reaaaaaaaaaaaaal close lol Yates dominates when it comes to tiny smooth arms. :o
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=173167.0;attach=334585;image)
LOL dorian's arms and delts are so smooth and detail-less he doesn't even look like he trains them compared to ronnie in that shot..
but then again, I am talking to people who think dorian had ronnie 2004's quads with shawn ray's waistline for one day only in 1995..LOL
::)
meltdown ;)
babbling on about 'muscular bulk, dryness, density etc' is not articulating your points better when pics and videos show your 'points' to be bullshit in the first place.
::)
on the contrary, it shows how poorly he articulates his points given that his posts are so long.
in the world of higher education, you learn to be succinct, and to the point about what you say. proving your point in few words is much more difficult than long winded rants. and much more effective.
babbling on for pages is a smokescreen. if you can't properly support something, baffle them with long winded bullshit and see if you can convince people you might know what you are talking about.
sadly, it never works.
besides, this is ronnie 99 we are comparing dorian to. not ronnie 1994 8)
what ND fails to get (and everyone else seems to understand) is that ND's 'logic, reasoning and intelligence" is proven to be illogical, unreasonable and unintelligent when you look at the pics and videos.
thats the point.
your points on the page do not match up to what real life shows us when we compare ronnie and dorian.
eg. you claim ronnie is not as dense or dry, yet shot after shot shows him to be just as dry, just as dense - if not moreso.
you claim dorian has an advantage in muscular bulk, yet dorian is the same height, same weight, but with noticably smaller arms, chest etc. the 'muscular bulk' you speak of is, well, the pics at the bottom show right where it is.. ::) if dorian had a trim waist like ronnie 99, he wouldnt weigh 257 in 93, thats for damn sure
no one argues with you point for point beause your points are proven wrong to begin with when you look at the pics and videos.
your saying the sky is purple when reality shows its blue. and you wonder why no one wastes time trying to explain it to you.. ::)
get it?
::)
^
in case you didn't notice, ronnie has the edge in muscular bulk. his muscles are larger, weighing 257 pounds.
dorian muscles (many of them - eg quads, arms, chest etc) are smaller (except for the calves) but he more than makes up for this with his horrendous midsection. and heavier bone structure...thus he ends up weighing the same..
ND on suicide watch now..
Bottom Line Ronnie has never beat DORIAN = proof enough
Mr. O ronnie never competed against dorian.
only the ronnie that lost to everyone all the time did.
NEXT :P
Dorian KILLS Ronnie in conditioning that's a FACT especially 1999
And when Ronnie became Mr O he said THREE occasions he could NEVER beat Dorian
next ;)
your misquoting him completely.
::)
and besides, ronnie's knows the politics of the dorian reign. the judges ignored his torn arm, twigs on a barrel issues, his torn quads etc. He knows how biased the judging was. we all do. so does he.
you don't.
end of story..
just another example of flowerboy being left in the dark while everyone in the know actually understands the sport.
keep planting ND lol
ND is a flower boy who knows nothing about bodybuilding. THE END
thanks for illustrating my point exactly:
your words on the screen never match up to real life: in fact, they are disproven soundly.
::)
maybe you are finally getting it? nah, doubt it..
ND is a flower boy who knows nothing about bodybuilding. THE END
you're just repeating what you said before
he beats Dorian in chest size and detail? how do you know? you're solely basing this on pics alone in which a slew of people already explained pictures don't do him justice and he looks 20 times better in person so unless you seen them both live and in person well dismiss as ignorant , Arm size? you mean biceps size? and you can't tell the size of each compared to the other based on two separate pics especially if Dorian's much heavier , same with quad size and detail and calves ? give me a break they're pathetic ONLY Coleman fans will try and minimize how bad they are because of their agenda , they lack shape the classic diamond shape , they're high to boot , they lack any separation of the gastrocnemious inner & outer heads ontop of being asymmetrical now normally I wouldn't bring this up because nothing in nature if truly symmetrical but Coleman fans like to harp on Dorian's ' asymmetries '
and what you just did is cherry-picked ALL the things you think he wins in this pose it doesn't work that way
What does weight have to do with the bodybuilding criteria? ::) it doesn't matter if he competed at 282 pounds there is an outstanding shot of him at that weight and I can use it to prove my point , the argument was at their best NOT at their best contest showing which I already gave examples of how 1993/1995 Olympia would still beat him.
A 282 pound Dorian would absolutely blow away everyone at the Olympia and you're assuming he's carrying 15 pounds of fat & water and you know what they say about that ! is he as hard and as dry as he was at the 1995 Mr Olympia? NO but it's still unmatched at that weight Kevin Horton said already his conditioning at that weight would have him top 3 in terms of conditioning and unmatched in size and thickness this speaks volumes
And again a 257 pound Dorian isn't the same as a 257 pound Ronnie , there is a big difference between being 257 pounds and hard as nails ( density ) and dry as a dessert , Ronnie perhaps matched Yates for this conditioning in 2001 & 1998 but NOT 1999 it's a FACT , so already down on density & drynes and balance & proportion , factor in posing & presentation and you have another Yates victory
Dorian a JUDGE FYI has already said he has better balance & proportion compared to Ronnie , so I beg to differ and keep cherry picking while ignoring ALL the aspects of the criteria , torso length , arm length leg length , upper/lower balance , proportion etc
10 years has passed and to this day NO ONE matched Dorian's combo for density , dryness and size some things change this hasn't and ironically you're posting a pic from you guessed it , 10 years ago ;) the sport has progressed from Dorian but not Ronnie , see hypocrite
You're still cherry picking even compared to Haney Dorian has clear advantages , you think Haney's flaws are relegated moot by a small waist and hips? ::) I could tear his apart but his works for reasons I could explain but wont . ANd I said Rhul's came close NOT surpasses for matches and I always laugh when people type Aesthetic and Ronnie it validates my point on how ignorant you people are , more ' aesthetic ' than Yates but please , stop acting like Ronnie was truly aesthetic in insults Labrada , Paris and Reeves . you need more than a small waist & hips to be aesthetic , the hallmark muscles of an aesthetic physique are calves , abs and delts how the fuck can you be aesthetic when you're missing TWO out of three?
Again the debate was AT THEIR BEST I'll post ANY picture of Dorian at his best showings contests or not . and those black & white shots were impromptu for Dorian's personal use ONLY these aren't professional studio shots , in fact the photographer said the photo was technically ' terrible ' and the fact that you hate them speaks volumes on how much of an impact they still have 10 years later ;)
I'll post any picture I want that shows how impressive he is if you don't like it I don't care if you approve or think it ' degrades ' me LMAO this isn't a debate , this is me correcting you on how contests are judged , the debate can never be ' fair ' because there are to many intangibles etc
I will give you respect for at least trying to defend your position intelligently without resorting to baseless attacks and diversionary tactics for that you get kudos
pics are the best we have to compare 99 ronnie and 93 dorian.
no one ever saw them standing side by side.
but it drives you crazy that the pics show that dorian isn't even close.
doesnt it?
hahahahaha:
Okay to address you points in order:
If pics have no bearing on this argument then why do you bother posting them as part of your argument. I guess I only "know" Ronnie's chest is bigger and more detailed in this shot because that's how it looks to me from the pics which have been posted. Bigger insertions and many more striations to me indicates this. Since the title of the thread denotes an analysis of this one stationary shot I propose that photos should be allowed to play some kind of role in the debate. You clearly agree as you also post long strings of photos to help make your point. When was competition Dorian ever much heavier than Ronnie. Am I allowed to start posting scarily huge 300lb Ronnie pics now? Or some of the ones from off-season 99 where he looked very good also? I'm not sure Ronnie's bigger biceps than triceps is particularly evident in the shot I posted, it certainly doesn't detract. DO I need to remind you of almost all the pics of Dorian you've posted feature a badly torn biceps and triceps on one or both arms. Regarding Ronnie's calves; they do not measure up to Dorian's, I can certainly concede this. Again in the pic posted there is no noticable asymmetry, they are the best calves on the stage, clearly besting Cormier and Flex in that shot.
You say I cherry picked the body parts Ronnie would win on. What I actually did was name ALL the bodyparts visible from the front. It just happened that Ronnie has better arms, quads, in this pic midsection, chest detail etc. Dorian may have bigger delts, but not better. Less round and full. Smaller joints and bigger muscle bellies are partly to do with this. Part of the reason Heath and Dexter weigh so little but have such full muscles. This links to the weight debate.
Now your 3rd paragraph is a bit of an interesting one. You say we're discussing these guys' physiques at their best. But say a 282lb Dorian should be admissable to the argument, and suggest I am out of line for observing the unlikelihood of a 282lb off-season Dorian having elite levels of low BF and dryness. Kevin Horton said top 3 in this 282lb condition? Fair enough but is that his "best". If we cross-reference this with your 10th paragraph, in which you believe you are schooling me in how "a contest is judged" it becomes evident you are fudging the conditions of the debate, as he was not 282lb, at any contest. If the judges were judging the imaginary off-season contest where he weighed 282lb, he would get crucified for a film of water and fat. If he was super ripped and dry at 282lb, would he even need to diet down another 25lb? Some of that must be water or fat or both, it's folly to think otherwise.
Posing and presentation is interesting also, as Dorian is a better poser. But again I was under the impression we were discussing best front lat spread, and Ronnie hits this one damn well in 99. No generalisations about their whole career's posing can get around that.
Where in the criteria does the torso length/leg length imply Ronnie loses? Ronnie has a shorter torso, like Arnold did, and Haney. The opposite of say Nasser. This enables his lower lats for one thing. You literally assume this is advantage Dorian on this one, which I can't understand.
In your 8th paragraph you seem to concede Ronnie is "more ' aesthetic ' than Yates but please , stop acting like Ronnie was truly aesthetic in insults Labrada , Paris and Reeves ." In this debate having better aesthetics than Dorian seems very relevant, and reference to those other guys seems irrelevant. Aesthetics also ties in to balance and proportion, and symmetry - things which Ronnie must deliver in to achieve superior aesthetics as you concede.
I don't hate the '93 Dorian B/W pics, I simply charge that they don't represent a contest showing. He looks great, much fuller than he did when he made it to stage. I think the Ronnie '99 pic I keep posting shows better symmetry, the bigger quads and smaller waist have a great effect, Dorian's lower body is more H frame in the b/w pics. Black and white obviously highlights shadows/details etc, something you seem to disagree with morally in the darker '99 Ronnie pics. Make those black and white and see how the detail increases even more.
Getting to and recapping your main punchline: judges judge contests. If you are guessing what they would say about off-season Dorian, he would lose out when turned around in the glutes, that's for sure. If you think the judges would crucify Ronnie so much for his apparently awful symmetry etc (yet superior aesthetic?) Then it seems you are not talking about the same judges that gave him 8 Olympias over guys like Flex, Shawn Ray, Kevin, all the same guys Dorian beat. Thank you for giving my attempt at a fair approach some kudos, I would applaud in you a similar abstinance from imprecise hyperbole about Ronnie's in-fact-not-terrible balance and proportion.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=173167.0;attach=334302;image)
Apologies for Sucky-esque length of post. Pretty boring I know.
excellent. ND is going to freak out when he realizes he can't get around any of this with his bullshit.
Hypocrite much? when I post a detailed explanation it's worthless and babble but when someone does it for Ronnie it's ' excellent ' lol you're the biggest hypocrite
you still don't get it. ::)
LOL
his long words are supported and corroborated by the pics and videos
yours are not
get it now? LOL
Mines are backed by a ton of experts
Okay to address you points in order:
If pics have no bearing on this argument then why do you bother posting them as part of your argument. I guess I only "know" Ronnie's chest is bigger and more detailed in this shot because that's how it looks to me from the pics which have been posted. Bigger insertions and many more striations to me indicates this. Since the title of the thread denotes an analysis of this one stationary shot I propose that photos should be allowed to play some kind of role in the debate. You clearly agree as you also post long strings of photos to help make your point. When was competition Dorian ever much heavier than Ronnie. Am I allowed to start posting scarily huge 300lb Ronnie pics now? Or some of the ones from off-season 99 where he looked very good also? I'm not sure Ronnie's bigger biceps than triceps is particularly evident in the shot I posted, it certainly doesn't detract. DO I need to remind you of almost all the pics of Dorian you've posted feature a badly torn biceps and triceps on one or both arms. Regarding Ronnie's calves; they do not measure up to Dorian's, I can certainly concede this. Again in the pic posted there is no noticable asymmetry, they are the best calves on the stage, clearly besting Cormier and Flex in that shot.
You say I cherry picked the body parts Ronnie would win on. What I actually did was name ALL the bodyparts visible from the front. It just happened that Ronnie has better arms, quads, in this pic midsection, chest detail etc. Dorian may have bigger delts, but not better.
Now your 3rd paragraph is a bit of an interesting one. You say we're discussing these guys' physiques at their best. But say a 282lb Dorian should be admissable to the argument, and suggest I am out of line for observing the unlikelihood of a 282lb off-season Dorian having elite levels of low BF and dryness. Kevin Horton said top 3 in this 282lb condition? Fair enough but is that his "best". If we cross-reference this with your 10th paragraph, in which you believe you are schooling me in how "a contest is judged" it becomes evident you are fudging the conditions of the debate, as he was not 282lb, at any contest. If the judges were judging the imaginary off-season contest where he weighed 282lb, he would get crucified for a film of water and fat. If he was super ripped and dry at 282lb, would he even need to diet down another 25lb? Some of that must be water or fat or both, it's folly to think otherwise.
Posing and presentation is interesting also, as Dorian is a better poser. But again I was under the impression we were discussing best front lat spread, and Ronnie hits this one damn well in 99. No generalisations about their whole career's posing can get around that.
Where in the criteria does the torso length/leg length imply Ronnie loses? Ronnie has a shorter torso, like Arnold did, and Haney. The opposite of say Nasser. This enables his lower lats for one thing. You literally assume this is advantage Dorian on this one, which I can't understand.
In your 8th paragraph you seem to concede Ronnie is "more ' aesthetic ' than Yates but please , stop acting like Ronnie was truly aesthetic in insults Labrada , Paris and Reeves ." In this debate having better aesthetics than Dorian seems very relevant, and reference to those other guys seems irrelevant. Aesthetics also ties in to balance and proportion, and symmetry. Something which Ronnie must deliver in to achieve superior aesthetics as you concede.
I don't hate the '93 Dorian B/W pics, I simply charge that they don't represent a contest showing. He looks great, much fuller than he did when he made it to stage. I think the Ronnie '99 pic I keep posting shows better symmetry, the bigger quads and smaller waist have a great effect, Dorian's lower body is more H frame in the b/w pics. Black and white obviously highlights shadows/details etc, something you seem to disagree with morally in the darker '99 Ronnie pics. Make those black and white and see how the detail increases even more.
Getting to and recapping your main punchline: judges judge contests. If you are guessing what they would say about off-season Dorian, he would lose out when turned around in the glutes, that's for sure. If you think the judges would crucify Ronnie so much for his apparently awful symmetry etc (yet superior aesthetic?) Then it seems you are not talking about the same judges that gave him 8 Olympias over guys like Flex, Shawn Ray, Kevin, all the same guys Dorian beat. Thank you for giving my attempt at a fair approach some kudos, I would applaud in you a similar abstinance from imprecise hyperbole about Ronnie's in-fact-not-terrible balance and proportion.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=173167.0;attach=334302;image)
Apologies for Sucky-esque length of post. Pretty boring I know.
If pics have no bearing on this argument then why do you bother posting them as part of your argument. I guess I only "know" Ronnie's chest is bigger and more detailed in this shot because that's how it looks to me from the pics which have been posted. Bigger insertions and many more striations to me indicates this. Since the title of the thread denotes an analysis of this one stationary shot I propose that photos should be allowed to play some kind of role in the debate.
you clearly agree as you also post long strings of photos to help make your point. When was competition Dorian ever much heavier than Ronnie. Am I allowed to start posting scarily huge 300lb Ronnie pics now? Or some of the ones from off-season 99 where he looked very good also? I'm not sure Ronnie's bigger biceps than triceps is particularly evident in the shot I posted, it certainly doesn't detract. DO I need to remind you of almost all the pics of Dorian you've posted feature a badly torn biceps and triceps on one or both arms. Regarding Ronnie's calves; they do not measure up to Dorian's, I can certainly concede this. Again in the pic posted there is no noticable asymmetry, they are the best calves on the stage, clearly besting Cormier and Flex in that shot.
'm not sure Ronnie's bigger biceps than triceps is particularly evident in the shot I posted, it certainly doesn't detract. DO I need to remind you of almost all the pics of Dorian you've posted feature a badly torn biceps and triceps on one or both arms. Regarding Ronnie's calves; they do not measure up to Dorian's, I can certainly concede this. Again in the pic posted there is no noticable asymmetry, they are the best calves on the stage, clearly besting Cormier and Flex in that shot.
You say I cherry picked the body parts Ronnie would win on. What I actually did was name ALL the bodyparts visible from the front. It just happened that Ronnie has better arms, quads, in this pic midsection, chest detail etc. Dorian may have bigger delts, but not better.
Now your 3rd paragraph is a bit of an interesting one. You say we're discussing these guys' physiques at their best. But say a 282lb Dorian should be admissable to the argument, and suggest I am out of line for observing the unlikelihood of a 282lb off-season Dorian having elite levels of low BF and dryness. Kevin Horton said top 3 in this 282lb condition? Fair enough but is that his "best". If we cross-reference this with your 10th paragraph, in which you believe you are schooling me in how "a contest is judged" it becomes evident you are fudging the conditions of the debate, as he was not 282lb, at any contest. If the judges were judging the imaginary off-season contest where he weighed 282lb, he would get crucified for a film of water and fat. If he was super ripped and dry at 282lb, would he even need to diet down another 25lb? Some of that must be water or fat or both, it's folly to think otherwise.
Posing and presentation is interesting also, as Dorian is a better poser. But again I was under the impression we were discussing best front lat spread, and Ronnie hits this one damn well in 99. No generalisations about their whole career's posing can get around that.
Where in the criteria does the torso length/leg length imply Ronnie loses? Ronnie has a shorter torso, like Arnold did, and Haney. The opposite of say Nasser. This enables his lower lats for one thing. You literally assume this is advantage Dorian on this one, which I can't understand.
In your 8th paragraph you seem to concede Ronnie is "more ' aesthetic ' than Yates but please , stop acting like Ronnie was truly aesthetic in insults Labrada , Paris and Reeves ." In this debate having better aesthetics than Dorian seems very relevant, and reference to those other guys seems irrelevant. Aesthetics also ties in to balance and proportion, and symmetry. Something which Ronnie must deliver in to achieve superior aesthetics as you concede.
I don't hate the '93 Dorian B/W pics, I simply charge that they don't represent a contest showing. He looks great, much fuller than he did when he made it to stage. I think the Ronnie '99 pic I keep posting shows better symmetry, the bigger quads and smaller waist have a great effect, Dorian's lower body is more H frame in the b/w pics. Black and white obviously highlights shadows/details etc, something you seem to disagree with morally in the darker '99 Ronnie pics. Make those black and white and see how the detail increases even more.
Getting to and recapping your main punchline: judges judge contests. If you are guessing what they would say about off-season Dorian, he would lose out when turned around in the glutes, that's for sure. If you think the judges would crucify Ronnie so much for his apparently awful symmetry etc (yet superior aesthetic?) Then it seems you are not talking about the same judges that gave him 8 Olympias over guys like Flex, Shawn Ray, Kevin, all the same guys Dorian beat. Thank you for giving my attempt at a fair approach some kudos, I would applaud in you a similar abstinance from imprecise hyperbole about Ronnie's in-fact-not-terrible balance and proportion.
Apologies for Sucky-esque length of post. Pretty boring I know.
no, back when I said dorian should have lost about all I had was the flex mag pics, and one or two scans from mags
we didn't have all the screenshots, the video, the muscletime pics
etc.
I promptly changed my opinion after this. and you know it.
but as always you post lies to make yourself look better..
::)
considering the time frame...
Looks unique absolutely , his rear one was insane as well , but best ever hardly , best for his time maybe !
funny, not only have these experts NEVER specifically commented on peak ronnie vs peak dorian, most of them (eg. McGough) think Ronnie at his best is the best physique they have ever seen, and the greatest MR. O ever and the greatest bb ever.
hahaha
flowerboy is going to want to hide his head in the soil after this hahaha
"maybe"? Who else in the 60s could hit a front lat spread like that?
technically those shots are in the 70s and isn't freddys shot from the early 60s?
comparing sergio's late 60s shots with that freddy shot, i still think freddy is more impressive
whats funny is that those yates black and white shots are not technically terrible at all.
on the contrary they are very well done. great lighting to provide contrast, shadows etc.
but if you say your great photo is crappy, what does that do?
thats right.
it makes your other work seem even better..
Kevin is an awesome photographer. and those photos of yates are very well done.
To this day Dorian precontest could beat ANY Mr Olympia after him , they now it hence why they try so hard to deny itAll three of them? ;D
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=173167.0;attach=335021;image)
Yates does look great, but when I look at Sergio then look at Yates, Yates' arms and quads seem noticably less remarkable.
Then I wish someone could have the awe-inspiring rounded muscle bellies of Sergio, with the modern day mass of Yates with slightly inferior calves and conditioning haha, but superior detail and aesthetics. Then, as if delivered by my minds eye, I see this:
Then I realise Coleman's forearms are just TINY and it spoils the whole shot.......naaaaaaaat.
Excuse cop-out of a reply, the last one took me forever and I wanna do the next one justice too.
I will add though, that to my knowledge Kevin Horton is not a judge. Rather he is a photographer who unsurprisingly rates the impact of his own photographs, "technically terrible" or not. His opinion seems to me just that, and not representative of a panel of judges, insightful and interesting though it is.
Yates does look great, but when I look at Sergio then look at Yates, Yates' arms and quads seem noticably less remarkable.
Then I wish someone could have the awe-inspiring rounded muscle bellies of Sergio, with the modern day mass of Yates with slightly inferior calves and conditioning haha, but superior detail and aesthetics. Then, as if delivered by my minds eye, I see this:
Then I realise Coleman's forearms are just TINY and it spoils the whole shot.......naaaaaaaat.
Excuse cop-out of a reply, the last one took me forever and I wanna do the next one justice too.
I will add though, that to my knowledge Kevin Horton is not a judge. Rather he is a photographer who unsurprisingly rates the impact of his own photographs, "technically terrible" or not. His opinion seems to me just that, and not representative of a panel of judges, insightful and interesting though it is.
All three of them? ;D
if dorian precontest could beat any mr. O after him, then someone had better tell Ronnie Coleman
because his precontest 99 physique is CRUSHING dorian from head to toe:
::)
Thread closed.
LOL never taken a side?
sorry, but anyone who comes into a dorian vs ronnie thread and buys into the long pushed guy conspiracy theory that the 1999 Olympia footage of Ronnie Coleman is 'faked' (simply because it is that much better than dorian) is definately taking a side.. ;)
ND still hasnt recovered: :P
you are my property kid I own you
Thread closed.
Flowerboy wants to make me his sex slave. yuck.
what a fag :-X
Off the mark as usual, that's about as compelling as the keg's lat spreads.
(http://www.musculardevelopment.com/photos/transferred/FB7T8041.jpg)
Does anyone else think cormier is better than all these guys?
if you mean by shape then you'll get NO argument however in terms of density , development Dorian is leaving Sergio for dead , having larger rounder softer quads is NO advantage
you see what you want , nothing wrong with that , Flex comes closer to Sergio in terms of small joints , full round muscle bellies and aesthetic than Coleman ever could
Coleman's forearm's aren't ' TINY ' just not in proportion with his biceps & triceps , they like his calves insert high and lack great shape
Horton's not a judge true , Yates is ;) and the impact his photos speak for themselves , but his opinion on the subject is a valuable one because to this date he's never taken any side and is really objective and honest
If you think Dorian has better quads then I don't know what to say. If they were more defined, or had superor tear-drop/outer-quad/sartorious separation etc... , then I could overlook the fact they are about 2/3 the size. Look at the pics, and see where the inner legs taper suddenly on Dorian, and how they are thick and full on Ronnie. I know Dorian beat Nasser and others with great quads, but Ronnie's got those crazy lats as well, which no-one had in Dorian's day except Dorian.
Flex may have smaller joints still, but again this seems a mute point, as in the Dorian/Ronnie debate all that matters is that Ronnie has fuller muscle bellies than Dorian, something you seem to concede with the abstract Flex reference. If Dillet had a great back and ripped glutes/hams then I believe he could have beat Dorian. Dillet didn't have those things, but Ronnie did. I guess this is irrelevant too, as we are talking about the best pic you can post of a Dorian lat spread vs. the best Ronnie lat spread I can post. With some opinions from Dorian's photographer thrown in to sweeten the argument a bit. I can believe Dorian's conditioning gave him a magical aura when he transitioned between poses, but I feel a stationary shot is a slightly different argument.
I think in the pic I posted there is no noticable flaw in Ronnie's forearms, I mean they are absolutely huge, full and ripped/detailed. They look slightly worse in the front double bi, but great in this pose, very powerful. (still pretty damn good in front double bi, also attached to arguably greatest upper arms of all time.)
Was Yates amongst the ex-Olympian judges who voted Badell 1st in challenge round 2005? Because the real judges at the time seemed to disagree, even though Ronnie already has a small left tri and a less eye-popping rear lat spread.
I think I am objective too tbh. I believe Dorian was great, and it would be a damn close call. But as far as the internet debate, my pic is better than your pic. I'd be intrigued to see if you can concede this, since it would not technically win me the real-life debate. All the quotes you have posted about the effect of real life vs. photos suggests to me you need to prove to me that even if my photo is better it doesn't mean anything. Which logically suggests to me that my photo is better, otherwise why would you bother with the real-life sub-argument. I guess since I've never seen either guy in person I could even concede Dorian might be better in person, which is the ultimate truth of course, but it sure as hell looks to me from pictures - my only frame of reference outside of Dorian's photographer's words - that Ronnie has pretty much everything bigger and better except calves. Add superior aesthetic and much better detail all over and, calves withstanding, we have the photo victor.
If you think Dorian has better quads then I don't know what to say. If they were more defined, or had superor tear-drop/outer-quad/sartorious separation etc... , then I could overlook the fact they are about 2/3 the size. Look at the pics, and see where the inner legs taper suddenly on Dorian, and how they are thick and full on Ronnie. I know Dorian beat Nasser and others with great quads, but Ronnie's got those crazy lats as well, which no-one had in Dorian's day except Dorian.
Flex may have smaller joints still, but again this seems a mute point, as in the Dorian/Ronnie debate all that matters is that Ronnie has fuller muscle bellies than Dorian, something you seem to concede with the abstract Flex reference. If Dillet had a great back and ripped glutes/hams then I believe he could have beat Dorian. Dillet didn't have those things, but Ronnie did. I guess this is irrelevant too, as we are talking about the best pic you can post of a Dorian lat spread vs. the best Ronnie lat spread I can post. With some opinions from Dorian's photographer thrown in to sweeten the argument a bit. I can believe Dorian's conditioning gave him a magical aura when he transitioned between poses, but I feel a stationary shot is a slightly different argument.
I think in the pic I posted there is no noticable flaw in Ronnie's forearms, I mean they are absolutely huge, full and ripped/detailed. They look slightly worse in the front double bi, but great in this pose, very powerful. (still pretty damn good in front double bi, also attached to arguably greatest upper arms of all time.)
I think I am objective too tbh. I believe Dorian was great, and it would be a damn close call. But as far as the internet debate, my pic is better than your pic. I'd be intrigued to see if you can concede this, since it would not technically win me the real-life debate. All the quotes you have posted about the effect of real life vs. photos suggests to me you need to prove to me that even if my photo is better it doesn't mean anything. Which logically suggests to me that my photo is better, otherwise why would you bother with the real-life sub-argument. I guess since I've never seen either guy in person I could even concede Dorian might be better in person, which is the ultimate truth of course, but it sure as hell looks to me from pictures - my only frame of reference outside of Dorian's photographer's words - that Ronnie has pretty much everything bigger and better except calves. Add superior aesthetic and much better detail all over and, calves withstanding, we have the photo victor.
If you think Dorian has better quads then I don't know what to say. If they were more defined, or had superor tear-drop/outer-quad/sartorious separation etc... , then I could overlook the fact they are about 2/3 the size. Look at the pics, and see where the inner legs taper suddenly on Dorian, and how they are thick and full on Ronnie. I know Dorian beat Nasser and others with great quads, but Ronnie's got those crazy lats as well, which no-one had in Dorian's day except Dorian.
Flex may have smaller joints still, but again this seems a mute point, as in the Dorian/Ronnie debate all that matters is that Ronnie has fuller muscle bellies than Dorian, something you seem to concede with the abstract Flex reference. If Dillet had a great back and ripped glutes/hams then I believe he could have beat Dorian. Dillet didn't have those things, but Ronnie did. I guess this is irrelevant too, as we are talking about the best pic you can post of a Dorian lat spread vs. the best Ronnie lat spread I can post. With some opinions from Dorian's photographer thrown in to sweeten the argument a bit. I can believe Dorian's conditioning gave him a magical aura when he transitioned between poses, but I feel a stationary shot is a slightly different argument.
I think in the pic I posted there is no noticable flaw in Ronnie's forearms, I mean they are absolutely huge, full and ripped/detailed. They look slightly worse in the front double bi, but great in this pose, very powerful. (still pretty damn good in front double bi, also attached to arguably greatest upper arms of all time.)
Was Yates amongst the ex-Olympian judges who voted Badell 1st in challenge round 2005? Because the real judges at the time seemed to disagree, even though Ronnie already has a small left tri and a less eye-popping rear lat spread.
I think I am objective too tbh. I believe Dorian was great, and it would be a damn close call. But as far as the internet debate, my pic is better than your pic. I'd be intrigued to see if you can concede this, since it would not technically win me the real-life debate. All the quotes you have posted about the effect of real life vs. photos suggests to me you need to prove to me that even if my photo is better it doesn't mean anything. Which logically suggests to me that my photo is better, otherwise why would you bother with the real-life sub-argument. I guess since I've never seen either guy in person I could even concede Dorian might be better in person, which is the ultimate truth of course, but it sure as hell looks to me from pictures - my only frame of reference outside of Dorian's photographer's words - that Ronnie has pretty much everything bigger and better except calves. Add superior aesthetic and much better detail all over and, calves withstanding, we have the photo victor.
Unfortunately, you are trying to engage in serious reasoned debate with those who are uninterested in it, who drop unrelated tangents in to any argument in order to avoid humiliation time and again.
Unfortunately, you are trying to engage in serious reasoned debate with those who are uninterested in it, who drop unrelated tangents, trolling and thread hijacks in to any discussion in order to avoid humiliation on the original issue time and again.
coming from the coward who runs whenever pushed on his ignorance , you're a joke. you can't debate me because everything you type leads back to politics and racism your default positions , it's all you know.
Nothing Yates or Haney had competes with this but instead you'll get a barrage of filler rife with desperate deflections lol
Textbook. Nothing to do with content and everything to do with trolling, deflections and personal vendettas/meltdowns lol
Sure Dorian is 282 pounds in this pic with better density & dryness than Sergio EVER shown , with equal balance & proportion
Entirely morphed pic, Yates as you wish he was lol
Here's the truth. ;D
What's funny is you didn't take very long to prove me right and expose yourself ! thanks :D
Never expect ND to make sense and you'll be on the right track lol
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=172772.0;attach=201364;image)Haney looked better in that pose.
best front lat spread of all time?
discuss.
so did Ronnie at his peak in 1999.
I see the trolls are playing the "morph" card again. ::) Translation: Ronnie could never hang with the physique Yates is showing.
dorian at his self proclaimed best in 95 has a lat spread that is 34 notches below ronnie's:
see for yourself:
In what regards? muscular bulk? NO density? NO dryness? NO balance? NO proportion? NO in detail? maybe stop making claims based on what you think is better
hahaha ND knows dorian looks worse so he just melts down.
dorian at his self proclaimed best in 95 has a lat spread that is 34 notches below ronnie's:
see for yourself:
I don't have the rose colored glasses like you to look through. I see Dorian with better chest/delt tie-ins, vastly thicker lats, fuller chest & delts, abs that don't look like that of a mutant and honest to goodness calves. Look at how Ronnie's chest flattens out in the pose. His delts also aren't capped like Dorian's. Dorian is denser and more complete, which is plain to see to those people who understand judging criteria.
This man knows what he's talking about ! spot-on
no logical explanation?
gee lets see.
muscular bulk: ronnie is not only heavier than dorian 95, he was larger arms, chest quads etc.
advantage: ronnie.
density/dryness: dorian showing no detail, looking soft and puffy compared to the ultra ripped,dry and striated ronnie, who even shows abs in the pose, something not normally seen.
advantage: ronnie
balance: ronnie - dorian's smallish arms are overpowered by his lats. ronnie's pose has perfect balance, even his calves are in proportion.
Detail - well that one's easy.
ronnie also has freaky vascularity in the arms, something that the not special from the front dorian barely has.
ND sweetalking his lover. must be looking to get laid tonight. :-X
no logical explanation?
gee lets see.
muscular bulk: ronnie is not only heavier than dorian 95, he was larger arms, chest quads etc.
advantage: ronnie.
density/dryness: dorian showing no detail, looking soft and puffy compared to the ultra ripped,dry and striated ronnie, who even shows abs in the pose, something not normally seen.
advantage: ronnie
balance: ronnie - dorian's smallish arms are overpowered by his lats. ronnie's pose has perfect balance, even his calves are in proportion.
Detail - well that one's easy.
ronnie also has freaky vascularity in the arms, something that the not special from the front dorian barely has.
no logical explanation?
gee lets see.
muscular bulk: ronnie is not only heavier than dorian 95, he was larger arms, chest quads etc.
density/dryness: dorian showing no detail, looking soft and puffy compared to the ultra ripped,dry and striated ronnie, who even shows abs in the pose, something not normally seen.
advantage: ronnie
balance: ronnie - dorian's smallish arms are overpowered by his lats. ronnie's pose has perfect balance, even his calves are in proportion.
Detail - well that one's easy.
ronnie also has freaky vascularity in the arms, something that the not special from the front dorian barely
And yet Big Bubba conceded he would still never have beaten Dorian. That's got to be frustrating to you. ;D
That's what kills him the most , Ronnie keeps saying Dorian would beat me ;D that what sent him into this perpetual state of meltdowns and chasing me around lol I ran from him LMMFAO I'm correcting his dumbass in 5 threads
owned by Ronnie , Bob Chick , Kevin Horton lol
Now imagine, if Gunter could beat reigning champ Ronnie, just imagine how Dorian would have utterly destroyed him. It would have been another straight firsts win for The Shadow, no doubt.
And yet Big Bubba conceded he would still never have beaten Dorian. That's got to be frustrating to you. ;D
heavier? how is 257 pounds heavier than 260? your University owes you money back
dorian was 255 pounds in 1995.
which is less than 257.
god your stupid. ::)
oh, and in case you didn't notice: this is from one of your old posts buddy.
::)
Re: what did DORIAN YATES weigh onstage?
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2006, 01:57:50 AM » Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In 94 he weighed 262lbs and in 95 he weighed 255lbs and I have to check for 96/97 !!
hahaah what was that about my university owing me money? huh flowerboy?
hahahahaha
I love it.
hey, if you were posting you be writing for 3000 words about how the two pounds makes all the difference.. ::)
after all, you love to push numbers because as always, the pics fail your cause.
Oh how I wish you guys would just shut the fuck up.
heavier? how is 257 pounds heavier than 260? ??? your University owes you money back and you do NOT know if his ' arms ' chest and quads are all bigger unless they were side by side , spoken like a true fan-boy , biceps? absolutely triceps & forearms YOU don't have a clue ! and muscular bulk means ZERO without the conditioning to back it up
I love these rare times you commit to something because I just drop the hammer on you , FIRST you can't comment on Dorian's details considering pics are worthless compared reality , another rookie mistake . second soft & puffy I mean this is just irretrievably stupid especially considering this was one of his finest showings in terms of conditioning what you're claiming is he's soft and the irony is Ronnie is compared to 1998 LMMFAO Ronnie's conditioning at this contest is NOT in Dorian's league even if his striations are more visible
This is exactly why you'll always be laughed at you're just stupid in your claims and ignorant MORE striations doesn't mean better conditioning you dolt
I mean perfect balance? you just type the opposite of reality , it's why you believe Ronnie is better conditioning you're just stupid , I mean even his calves are in proportion LMFAO it's not worthy of being taken seriously it's far from reality and still sticking to veins lol
all of what you typed is just garbage
::)
trying to pretend that its not blatantly obvious that ronnie's arms and quads are not significantly larger is one of the stupidest thing I have ever read..
Hellen Keller could tell they are noticably bigger:
::)
You think we need them side by side to determine who has the bigger quads? Interesting... does any part of you think Ronnie, the slightly taller of the two, would suddenly seem to have the smaller quads when side by side? Also you slipped arms in there as something Dorian might win on side by side; surely a mistake? Ask Shawn Ray, arms were not Dorian's thing. If we are talking 95 he only had one bicep. If we are talking '93 he was 257 wasn't he? You can;t pic and choose attributes from different years and combine them.
Ronnie's chest does flatten out in this pose it's true, although I think the crazy detail and extra massive insertions are pluses Dorian doesn't have.
I maintain his calves are good by normal standards in the '99 pic. Just not crazy best-ever Dorian standards. But then Dorian's biceps, although not bad in '93 were never best-ever material like Ronnie's. And I honestly think quads are a bigger muscle group than calves, and that average calves (please don't pretend they're so bad IN THAT SHOT) and fantastic quads is certainly equal to great calves and small, poorly separated quads.
Condition is funny because I personally think Dorian takes it with his granite look thing. But Ronnie sure had people shocked when he turned around and had that crazy crazy ham and glute conditioning, he really shocked the world, like a 250lb black Rich Gaspari or something. Anyway he really is no slouch in this department, as in later years he'd even rely on this for wins, much like post-tear Dorian did with his granite muscles. Striations, detail and separation do play a part, just like muscle maturity etc, so I wouldn't pooh-pooh these comments so readily. Ronnie does have great balance in some shots, surely a requirement for 8x Mr O? The judges sure thought he was better than a best-ever 2000 Levrone and several big versions of Flex, so not all the pro-Ronnie arguemnts are pure "garbage". The guy was good.
You think we need them side by side to determine who has the bigger quads? Interesting... does any part of you think Ronnie, the slightly taller of the two, would suddenly seem to have the smaller quads when side by side? Also you slipped arms in there as something Dorian might win on side by side; surely a mistake? Ask Shawn Ray, arms were not Dorian's thing. If we are talking 95 he only had one bicep. If we are talking '93 he was 257 wasn't he? You can;t pic and choose attributes from different years and combine them.
Ronnie's chest does flatten out in this pose it's true, although I think the crazy detail and extra massive insertions are pluses Dorian doesn't have.
I maintain his calves are good by normal standards in the '99 pic. Just not crazy best-ever Dorian standards. But then Dorian's biceps, although not bad in '93 were never best-ever material like Ronnie's. And I honestly think quads are a bigger muscle group than calves, and that average calves (please don't pretend they're so bad IN THAT SHOT) and fantastic quads is certainly equal to great calves and small, poorly separated quads.
Condition is funny because I personally think Dorian takes it with his granite look thing. But Ronnie sure had people shocked when he turned around and had that crazy crazy ham and glute conditioning, he really shocked the world, like a 250lb black Rich Gaspari or something. Anyway he really is no slouch in this department, as in later years he'd even rely on this for wins, much like post-tear Dorian did with his granite muscles. Striations, detail and separation do play a part, just like muscle maturity etc, so I wouldn't pooh-pooh these comments so readily. Ronnie does have great balance in some shots, surely a requirement for 8x Mr O? The judges sure thought he was better than a best-ever 2000 Levrone and several big versions of Flex, so not all the pro-Ronnie arguemnts are pure "garbage". The guy was good.
LOL
arms and quads not noticably smaller? LOL
::)
8) 8) 8)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Ronnie%20Coleman/99%20Mr%20Olympia/99MrO-Ronnie70.jpg)
Entirely morphed pic, Yates as you wish he was loltalk about morphed pics? Kev was taller than Yates by a few inches? ok ::)
Here's the truth. ;D
talk about morphed pics? Kev was taller than Yates by a few inches? ok ::)
::)ronnies gyno was bigger too 8)
trying to pretend that its not blatantly obvious that ronnie's arms and quads are not significantly larger is one of the stupidest thing I have ever read..
Hellen Keller could tell they are noticably bigger:
::)
I know you didn't miss the part where I said AT HIS BEST ;) but as usual you have to post pics of him that proved a point no one is arguing stupid
Entertaining he was 255 in 1995 that's 2 pounds you're fucking telling me that's an advantage in muscular bulk? LMFAO beyond retarded as usual especially considering it's not dense dry muscle , it's no advantage
Flex magazine Dec 1995
Dorian Yates : Skin like tissue paper. In the crucial front double-biceps shot , the left bicep is short , but NOT fatally so. Traps look as if they have the capacity to render him deaf. Back , upper and lower , is sensational in EVERY respect : width , thickness and detail. Side triceps is a masterpiece that he's made into a Broadway production number. Thighs have more sweep than before . Calves? Yates wrote the book on calves . In muscle thickness , he's in a class of his own . Today's combination of size , proportion , shape and condition make this his peak form.
the most muscular I posted is from 93 you moron ::)
get your head out of the flowers next time
What a jackass posts pics from 1996 ::) you're deathly afraid of Dorian at his best and I don't blame you
Dude you've got to accept that you split hairs about Dorian being 260lb when Ronnie was 257lb, making out the 3lb was important, then when simply proved wrong you turn about face and say that disputing 2 pounds is ridiculous, which seems slightly incredible.
Also, quoting Flex Magazine from '95 only reflects their opinion on Mr O in '95. It's pre-Ronnie's reign, and also the same publication which declared Ronnie's back 1st best back of all time, with Dorian 2nd. Do you agree with that too?
wow, great shot, actually hitting the pose properly, something a mr o probably hasnt been able to do since Haney. Shame Dorians side chest didnt seem to look this good on stage, didnt hit it quite as well
Back on topic this shot is just untouchable by anyone
despite his wider hips and waist this pose is a masterpiece it gives you an idea of how fucking wider he is if he's waist & hips are that wider and he still has such an insane shot and taper
another superb shot. A pose should be hit and be able to show symmetry, balance and proportion but at the same time the bodypart being exploited should stand out. For example the lats should ultimately stand out in the front lat spread pose, something Ronnies dont do (did from the rear), same as his chest doesnt stand out in the side chest pose, etc etc
hey its true.
dorian was not exactly known for his detail from the front you know.
he was all back..best in the sport until King Ron came along..
Well that depends on the year if we're talking about 2003 NO his quads were without equal in terms of size , but it all depends on the circumstance do you think Ronnie from the 2001 ASC has bigger quads than say a 282 pound Dorian? I think not. Dorian at 260 pounds compared to Ronnie at 247 sure they better be side-by-side before you can say definitively who has the bigger quads which is a matter of semantics anyway but that doesn't create a better pose when his calves aren't in proportionWo wo wo, I've not once mentioned ASC 2001 Ronnie. Talk about selective comparison. I was talking about my pic from 99 vs your pic from '93. 282lb studio b/w Dorian has quads which dwarf his own 269 best ever b/w quads, as well as his own 2005 Olympia quads, so that's a little suspect to say the least. Especially since it surfaces 10 years later, after the inception of photoshop.
And on the subject of ARMS you know biceps , triceps and forearms , we can always give Ronnie the nod on biceps but triceps and forearms ( which are part of ARMS depending on the year Dorian would be comparable in terms of size . His triceps and forearms are pretty damn good in fact Peter McGough has said his forearms are among the best he's ever seen , you can't pick which muscle you think is more important and ignore the rest NOT how it works .
Ronnie has better tie-ins which help but you're picking and choosing what you think wins a pose again and Dorian's pecs are striated just because you can't gather than from certain pics doesn't mean it's not there
Keep maintaining all you's like but his calves suck and only a biased fan would try and minimize them . why do they suck? they lack shape that classic diamond shape , they're insert high , they lack any separation of the gastrocnemious inner & outer heads , and they're not in proportion with his quads , they just aren't . normal ' standard ' calves would be like Lee Labrada who's calves were developed and diamond shaped but weren't massive Ronnie's calves suck
Dorian's biceps were ok Ronnie's calves are horrible and you honesty think quads are a bigger muscle group than calves? is this a joke? no kidding they're a bigger group lol and Dorian's quads are ONLY behind Ronnie's in terms of rectus femoris separation and that's it , you can argue size depending on the year and even shape if you'd like but development give me a break . and Dorian's LEGS have better proportion throughout calves are in proportion with the quads , glutes in proportion with the legs so they don't stick out and can be seen from the front , upper & lower body balance all in Yates favor , so you can argue over parts all you like it's the whole that separates one from another
Dorian's conditioning in legendary Ronnie's isn't there were a few times in his career where he came in great shape but if you notice that all went down hill , first Olympia his conditioning ( for that contest ) was his best , the pros agree as does he and has maintained that on several occasions . from that contest on it was all down hill ( 2001 ASC best showing ever ) Dorian had striated glutes if you say Ronnie has more I'd say you need to get out more often , and Dorian's hams were outstanding period ! and to boot they were in proportion with his quads ( which you can see in any side pose in profile ) Ronnie's aren't at different times it was better when he was lighter but the bigger the quads became the bigger that discrepancy became , keep ALL of this in mind the judges do
No one is arguing Ronnie wasn't good , his balance & proportion were GOOD for him when he was lighter , but not in Yates' league . same with the conditioning although I would concede Ronnie at the least matched it in 1998 & 2001 albeit at lighter weights than Dorian , and Ronnie's balance was good compared to the guys he was competing with again not in Yates' league Ronnie won in 98/99 because of his overall package in the later years he won purely on size and good conditioning and did you actually just say Levrone was his best ever in 2000? lol do you actually follow bodybuilding? Levrone's best most definitely was NOT 2000 and I don't know why you're bringing that up Dorian cleaned the floor with a probable best ever Kevin in 95 as well as a much , much better Flex Wheeler from 1993
Dorian AT HIS BEST is just to complete hard , dry and balanced for Ronnie in fact for anyone which is why he dominated the sport like no one before or after him.
wow bully for you one far back from Yates and close up for Ronnie ::) don't break your patting yourself on the back ...you think that nullifies your FEAR in post multiple shots from 1996? should I play your game?
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=173167.0;attach=335189;image)
wow look at Dorian owning Ronnie ;)
Wo wo wo, I've not once mentioned ASC 2001 Ronnie. Talk about selective comparison. I was talking about my pic from 99 vs your pic from '93. 282lb studio b/w Dorian has quads which dwarf his own 269 best ever b/w quads, as well as his own 2005 Olympia quads, so that's a little suspect to say the least. Especially since it surfaces 10 years later, after the inception of photoshop.
Sorry, I don't like to knock Dorian's arms, but whereas any best arms poll will feature Ronnie, possible at the top, nowhere will you find Dorian. Dorian's tris did look good from one angle, and the side tri looked good cos he could press them against his massive lats. But in the front double bi Ronnie's inner tris were both massive and well shaped with trademark insane detail, so it's not black and white, like all the best Dorian pics are. His forarms are considered good by all but yourself. Plus Ronnie's arms are much much bigger at their best, much more detail, including in the triceps, and overall shape is no contest, they have enough flow to have a wow factor, Dorian's have relatively small and proportioned bis/tris with great forearms. His delts dwarf arms in back double bi, by no means classic balance.
Ronnie's conditioning in the glutes and hams is legendary in fact, and superior to Dorians. Your defense against this is I need to get out more? Hell we're all debating naked men, at least I'm aware the judges look to glutes as a mark of conditioning. Guys like Dexter, Gaspari, even Thorvilsen owe much of their repective levels of career success to this hard-to-attain attribute, and guys like Bob Chic (no disrespect) had a hard time sometimes because they didn't have them. Lee Priest got slated for not having them also, then he got them for the Australian Pro and won it. If you refute their importance (insanely gay as it sounds) you clearly haven't followed bodybuilding in the post-Gaspari era. You say Ronnie's quad size was a problem in later years because of a quad/ham disrepency? You condescent that I should bear this in mind because the judges do? What year were his quads biggest, maybe 2003? He got a perfect score. What do you really know about judging?
Dorian's quads are only behind Ronnie's in rectus femoris separation?! Hence they are behind, thank you. Given that they are also smaller, I wonder how you pretend they are better.
You say Ronnie's later wins were based on size and conditioning? I thought you knew what the judges like, and size isn't enough? And I thought his condition in later years was terrible? Dude won as many Os coasting on his condition as Dorian in his whole career. BTW judges decide who wins the O. Again your own opinions and what the judges actually reward are not the same thing. Also, Ronnie 99 did better from a judges-points perspective than Ronnie 98, earning his first perfect score of three.
What year is Yates at his best in your opinion btw? Because I don't think 282lb Dorian counts for anything. We don't know what he looks like from the back, and he looks suspect in the one existing shot from the front. Where's the rest of the shoot? Why didn't it surface during his career? Why does it look so airbrushed? And why isn't that shoot the talk of the bodybuilding world, surpassing '93 269lb as possibly the greatest BB pics ever? His quads never actually got bigger after he quit squats earlier in his career, yet here in a previously never seen pic they appear the fullest of his whole life, noticably bigger and rounder than '93? Give me a break.
Wo wo wo, I've not once mentioned ASC 2001 Ronnie. Talk about selective comparison. I was talking about my pic from 99 vs your pic from '93. 282lb studio b/w Dorian has quads which dwarf his own 269 best ever b/w quads, as well as his own 2005 Olympia quads, so that's a little suspect to say the least. Especially since it surfaces 10 years later, after the inception of photoshop.
Sorry, I don't like to knock Dorian's arms, but whereas any best arms poll will feature Ronnie, possible at the top, nowhere will you find Dorian. Dorian's tris did look good from one angle, and the side tri looked good cos he could press them against his massive lats. But in the front double bi Ronnie's inner tris were both massive and well shaped with trademark insane detail, so it's not black and white, like all the best Dorian pics are. His forarms are considered good by all but yourself. Plus Ronnie's arms are much much bigger at their best, much more detail, including in the triceps, and overall shape is no contest, they have enough flow to have a wow factor, Dorian's have relatively small and proportioned bis/tris with great forearms. His delts dwarf arms in back double bi, by no means classic balance.
Ronnie's conditioning in the glutes and hams is legendary in fact, and superior to Dorians. Your defense against this is I need to get out more? Hell we're all debating naked men, at least I'm aware the judges look to glutes as a mark of conditioning. Guys like Dexter, Gaspari, even Thorvilsen owe much of their repective levels of career success to this hard-to-attain attribute, and guys like Bob Chic (no disrespect) had a hard time sometimes because they didn't have them. Lee Priest got slated for not having them also, then he got them for the Australian Pro and won it. If you refute their importance (insanely gay as it sounds) you clearly haven't followed bodybuilding in the post-Gaspari era. You say Ronnie's quad size was a problem in later years because of a quad/ham disrepency? You condescent that I should bear this in mind because the judges do? What year were his quads biggest, maybe 2003? He got a perfect score. What do you really know about judging?
Dorian's quads are only behind Ronnie's in rectus femoris separation?! Hence they are behind, thank you. Given that they are also smaller, I wonder how you pretend they are better.
You say Ronnie's later wins were based on size and conditioning? I thought you knew what the judges like, and size isn't enough? And I thought his condition in later years was terrible? Dude won as many Os coasting on his condition as Dorian in his whole career. BTW judges decide who wins the O. Again your own opinions and what the judges actually reward are not the same thing. Also, Ronnie 99 did better from a judges-points perspective than Ronnie 98, earning his first perfect score of three.
What year is Yates at his best in your opinion btw? Because I don't think 282lb Dorian counts for anything. We don't know what he looks like from the back, and he looks suspect in the one existing shot from the front. Where's the rest of the shoot? Why didn't it surface during his career? Why does it look so airbrushed? And why isn't that shoot the talk of the bodybuilding world, surpassing '93 269lb as possibly the greatest BB pics ever? His quads never actually got bigger after he quit squats earlier in his career, yet here in a previously never seen pic they appear the fullest of his whole life, noticably bigger and rounder than '93? Give me a break.
Who's the worm standing beside Yates? ;D
8)
Some of you are taking this way too seriously
How so? what is this site for? redundant nonsense just like this ;D
but i mean come on, how much time do some of you spend on your page length posts explaining your points. I've seen about all the photos of dorian and ronnie and i'd still rather look like ronnie instead of dorian but i'm not going to write a whole book on why.
First, I didn't disagree with Peter McGough's claim that Ronnie was never harder or drier than Dorian.
again your quote
I'm sorry but Peter McGough is an idiot if he thinks 01 ASC Ronnie never surpassed Dorian's conditioning.
what does my disagreement with Peter McGough have to do with the side chest pose? lol
You're not expecting a reasoned, cogent answer are you? This bozo's MO is all about trolling, deflections, attempted thread hijacks and name-calling lol
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=173167.0;attach=335246;image)
Wo wo wo, I've not once mentioned ASC 2001 Ronnie. Talk about selective comparison. I was talking about my pic from 99 vs your pic from '93
^
LOL
99 was the best ever physique Ronnie ever displayed.
all reality shows this.
what does my disagreement with Peter McGough have to do with the side chest pose? lol
its cool Immortal.
you see, all visuals, show Ronnie was better at the 99 olympia than at the 2001 AC.
a fact that ND hates because he loves to post his McGough quote about how ronnie was 'softer' (sic) in 99 than in 98..
eg. ronnie's 99 latspread crushes his 2001 AC latspread, mainly due to the stomach bulge that had developed from the 2000 olympia and onwards for the rest of his career.
yes, he had a gut at the 99 O. we all know that. but it was NOTHING compared to the 2001 AC and forever onwards.
99>>>2001AC
^
LOL
99 was the best ever physique Ronnie ever displayed.
all reality shows this.
??? ::)
even your bitch icecold agree's 99 was his best ever.
and he is as blind as a bat ???
I think you two need to talk.
you have to have your bitches agreeing with you in the very least. :P
look at that
Ben Weider's arm is almost the same size as dorian's left! lol
talk about debate over..lol
Hahahahha Hulkster I will continue to bury you via the experts
yeah, because you can't bury me using pics and videos
which in this sport, is what counts. talk is cheap.
ps I wonder why the pics and videos fail you?
oh yeah, thats right, because Ronnie 99 was better than Ronnie 2001 AC.
the video tape and camera do not make human errors.
bottom line is this: if ronnie 99 was worse than the AC, it should be obvious all over the place.
but guess what? the opposite is true.
thanks for playing. :P
man oh man
will the proof ever stop?
not fucking likely.
See this is why I say pics are worthless. The coloring and quality of these 2 pics are VERY different. Even the angles that they show. The only peoples opinions that matter are those that actually were at the shows. Otherwise it's simply YOUR preference.
Dorian's front lat spread never looked this good. More balanced? Perhaps.. but not better. That's like saying Usain Bolt is the greatest athlete of all-time b/c he's the fastest. There are other criteria for best lat spread such as muscular bulk, definition, shape, and skeletal frame.
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Ronnie%20Coleman/99%20Mr%20Olympia/99MrO-Ronnie3.jpg)
I wouldn't say more balanced. having small arms and pecs with giant overpowering lats is not balanced.. 8)
its no different than ronnie's quads overpowering his calves.
I agree there is more to a pose than just balance , there's muscular bulk which you mentioned not sure what school of logic you attended but 269 pounds is an advantage same with 282 pounds really big advantage and it's only an advantage when it's conditioned muscle which is exactly why a 205 pound Shawn Ray could best a 285 pound Nasser
Conditioning , Dorian stands ALONE same with mass it's no good by it's self many smaller guys who are hard as nails and dry as Iraq but are lacking in mass department . it's one challenge being big and a whole creature being dense & dry , enter Dorian unequaled in this combo . For the sake of argument I'm always willing to say perhaps Ronnie matched Yates in this area albeit lighter 2001/1998 but not really big like Dorian
Balance & proportion ALL Yates I'm sorry it just is , arm length in relation to the torso , torso length in relation to legs , proportion between individual muscles , whether or not your glutes can be seen from the front ( see the pic you posted ) these are all part & parcel of balance & proportion
Now let me add Ronnie has advantages Dorian does not smaller waist & hips , smaller joints , quads sweep , but when ALL of the criteria is assessed how the judges do it , Dorian hit more of the criteria than Ronnie and this applies to every pose , he just has to many advantages
this shot is textbook perfect
last time I checked, the judges didn't weigh competitors onstage and factor that into their decisions. So what good is a weight advantage if you can't tell by looking? Dorian, who happens to be an IFBB judge, agrees with this.
Dorian Yates - Bodybuliding.com Interview
"at the end of the day it's not a weight contest, it's a visual contest. And it doesn't matter what you say you weigh, if you don't look that big then you don't look that big."
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/dorian_yates_interview_1993_gym_shots.htm
when looking at the Ronnie pic I posted and the shot of Dorian you posted, you can't even tell that Dorian weighs 13 lbs more. In fact, Ronnie actually looks bigger. His head looks smaller in relation to his pecs, delts, and arms than Dorian's.
conditioning means f*ck all if you can't tell by looking. Dorian looks soft with his absent separations and striations. I'm dumbfounded how you can even argue Dorian has better conditioning in that pic. What objective criteria are you using?
I agree Dorian at his prime has better balance and proportion.
sorry, but Ronnie meets the IFBB criteria better than Dorian. Ronnie has the advantage in muscular bulk, definition, symmetry, shape, and fullness.
great shot but not perfect. Lee Haney is better.
last time I checked, the judges didn't weigh competitors onstage and factor that into their decisions. So what good is a weight advantage if you can't tell by looking? Dorian, who happens to be an IFBB judge, agrees with this.
Dorian Yates - Bodybuliding.com Interview
"at the end of the day it's not a weight contest, it's a visual contest. And it doesn't matter what you say you weigh, if you don't look that big then you don't look that big."
when looking at the Ronnie pic I posted and the shot of Dorian you posted, you can't even tell that Dorian weighs 13 lbs more. In fact, Ronnie actually looks bigger. His head looks smaller in relation to his pecs, delts, and arms than Dorian's.
conditioning means f*ck all if you can't tell by looking. Dorian looks soft with his absent separations and striations. I'm dumbfounded how you can even argue Dorian has better conditioning in that pic. What objective criteria are you using?
I agree Dorian at his prime has better balance and proportion.
sorry, but Ronnie meets the IFBB criteria better than Dorian. Ronnie has the advantage in muscular bulk, definition, symmetry, shape, and fullness.
great shot but not perfect. Lee Haney is better.
Yes you're right judges don't weigh the competitors but an advantage in muscular bulk is is clearly evident while standing next to people and funny all the comments on how Dorian looked much bigger than much heavier men than himself I wont bother posting them you've seen them all before
yeah because there aren't two very different pics with Ronnie much closer to the camera ::) and they're not side-by-side and this speaks volumes about Dorian's balance & proportion throughout his entire physique not highs & lower like Ronnies
You can't tell by looking at PICTURES you know the spiel Yates looks eons better on person than he does on pics , so I'll use first hand testimony as proof of how great Dorian's conditioning was , you say he looks ' soft ' the experts rave about his density which one of you is wrong? I mean these people were there live & in person
hawn Perine Ironage May 9 2009
Although I prefer the Reeves-Zane-Paris physique, I still contend that there was never a more complete, muscular human being to walk the earth than Dorian on the day Kevin Horton shot him pre-93 O. I was never so shocked by a set of bodybuilding photos as when I went through that article. Even Ronnie at his best, lacked Dorian's hardness and certainly his calves.
my sentiments to the letter especially about Reeves & Zane , notice he mentions Dorian's density it's unrivaled
okay you agree Yates has the advantage in balance & proportion , you just can't seem to except he does in density & dryness and depending on the year he does have an advantage in muscular bulk but that doesn't mean much in the face of Yates' strong points in ALL of the criteria because that's how contests are judged
Haney's is by no means perfect , it's insane and always was however Dorian has him on balance & proportion , density & dryness and surpasses him on size hell he won the muscularity despite being 10 pounds lighter in 91
Haney owned that pose for years Dorian eclipsed him
Yes you're right judges don't weigh the competitors but an advantage in muscular bulk is is clearly evident while standing next to people and funny all the comments on how Dorian looked much bigger than much heavier men than himself I wont bother posting them you've seen them all before
yeah because there aren't two very different pics with Ronnie much closer to the camera and they're not side-by-side and this speaks volumes about Dorian's balance & proportion throughout his entire physique not highs & lower like Ronnies
You can't tell by looking at PICTURES you know the spiel Yates looks eons better on person than he does on pics , so I'll use first hand testimony as proof of how great Dorian's conditioning was , you say he looks ' soft ' the experts rave about his density which one of you is wrong? I mean these people were there live & in person
okay you agree Yates has the advantage in balance & proportion , you just can't seem to except he does in density & dryness and depending on the year he does have an advantage in muscular bulk but that doesn't mean much in the face of Yates' strong points in ALL of the criteria because that's how contests are judged
bwahaha, all talk and no show. Where are the pics that show Dorian looking "much bigger" than heavier guys" Oh right... they don't exist b/c it's not true. ;)
what does distance have to do with anything? It's not like Ronnie is a foot away from the camera while Dorian is 20 ft away. The head, pec, delt, and arm size are still the same proportions whether they are 10 ft or 15 ft away from the camera.
<yawn> quotes mean nothing if visual evidence don't support them. I'll ask again: what objective criteria are you using?
of course I don't accept that Dorian has the advantage in density and dryness. Those are abstract terms that are meaningless unless you come up with an objective criteria for visually determining them. I might as well say Ronnie has the advantage in swagger and sharpness.
bwahaha, all talk and no show. Where are the pics that show Dorian looking "much bigger" than heavier guys" Oh right... they don't exist b/c it's not true. ;)
what does distance have to do with anything? It's not like Ronnie is a foot away from the camera while Dorian is 20 ft away. The head, pec, delt, and arm size are still the same proportions whether they are 10 ft or 15 ft away from the camera.
<yawn> quotes mean nothing if visual evidence don't support them. I'll ask again: what objective criteria are you using?
of course I don't accept that Dorian has the advantage in density and dryness. Those are abstract terms that are meaningless unless you come up with an objective criteria for visually determining them. I might as well say Ronnie has the advantage in swagger and sharpness.
Right on the money.
See this quote absolutely sucks for them because it validates every single thing I've said after the fact which proves I know more than they do . more muscular , more complete , better conditioned and balance that's Dorian Yates
Shawn Perine Ironage May 9 2009
Although I prefer the Reeves-Zane-Paris physique, I still contend that there was never a more complete, muscular human being to walk the earth than Dorian on the day Kevin Horton shot him pre-93 O. I was never so shocked by a set of bodybuilding photos as when I went through that article. Even Ronnie at his best, lacked Dorian's hardness and certainly his calves.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=173167.0;attach=335387;image)
The shot heard round the world.
Better front lat spread?-Dorian has the best ever.
Better Bodybuilder?-Ronnie unless you're retarded/delusional/ (aka ND)
Hope this helps.
Might as well throw this one up again, being that it obliterates anyone, anytime. Even the naysayers cower in fear when this one is posted. This is reality, perhaps a harsh one for some people.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=173167.0;attach=335231;image)
FAKE < FAKE < FAKE > ::) what else can they say? one of the most respected contest photographers who ever took a shot and who's never once took a side yet he manipulated this pic for the masses ::)
these Coleman fans are stupid people
I could see it if it were sharpened, I mean, there's a guy on this board that knows f*cking sharpening. But that isn't the case at all.
You're in good company with Hulkster when it doesn't fit your position the experts are wrong lol pictures don't compare to reality
Oh distance has absolutely nothing to do with anything there is a huge discrepancy between the distance between how close each other are to the camera and again you can NOT ascertain who looks bigger than whom unless they were side-by-side
this is where you and Hulkster are always destined to fall flat on your face , all the experts are wrong you're right even though I have proven both of you to ignorant to even the basics of physique evaluation , you say it's bullshit Dorian doesn't look better in person I laugh at you and take you for what you are a bias person with an agenda , I'm telling you the experts who actually seen both men live and in person throughout their entire careers all say Dorian's conditioning is better , you can't accept this who cares? but it doesn't change tha fact
objective criteria for judging density & dryness? how about visually LIVE and in PERSON either you're dry and you're holding water , either you're hard as nails & full or you're soft & full ! it takes a trained eye to know the difference and the fact you outright claimed the guys who were there with more experience in the game than you do years alive proves you're to proud and to stupid to admit you're wrong
See this quote absolutely sucks for them because it validates every single thing I've said after the fact which proves I know more than they do . more muscular , more complete , better conditioned and balance that's Dorian Yates
hawn Perine Ironage May 9 2009
Although I prefer the Reeves-Zane-Paris physique, I still contend that there was never a more complete, muscular human being to walk the earth than Dorian on the day Kevin Horton shot him pre-93 O. I was never so shocked by a set of bodybuilding photos as when I went through that article. Even Ronnie at his best, lacked Dorian's hardness and certainly his calves.
See this is why I say pics are worthless. The coloring and quality of these 2 pics are VERY different. Even the angles that they show. The only peoples opinions that matter are those that actually were at the shows. Otherwise it's simply YOUR preference.
I asked for pics and you give me quotes? Funny little man. lol
explain how distance affects proportions at distances greater than 10 ft. The head, pecs, delts, and arms all get smaller but keep the same dimensions. It's only at close up distances (e.g. less than 5 ft) that proportions get distorted. So rather than roll your eyes like an idiot, why don't you use your brain and explain what distance has to do with the 2 pics?
correction: you posted the opinions of people who saw both and claim Dorian had better conditioning. Why should I believe them while you ignore the myriad of quotes saying Ronnie had the greatest physique of all-time? ;)
I'm still waiting for the objective criteria you're using to determine density and dryness. What visual cues do you use?
I asked for pics and you give me quotes? Funny little man. lol
explain how distance affects proportions at distances greater than 10 ft. The head, pecs, delts, and arms all get smaller but keep the same dimensions. It's only at close up distances (e.g. less than 5 ft) that proportions get distorted. So rather than roll your eyes like an idiot, why don't you use your brain and explain what distance has to do with the 2 pics?
correction: you posted the opinions of people who saw both and claim Dorian had better conditioning. Why should I believe them while you ignore the myriad of quotes saying Ronnie had the greatest physique of all-time? ;)
I'm still waiting for the objective criteria you're using to determine density and dryness. What visual cues do you use?
you forget there are two very good videos from both shows.
its quite clear from watching them that 99 is better.
hope this helps.
you forget there are two very good videos from both shows.
its quite clear from watching them that 99 is better.
hope this helps.
i always though this guy had a pretty sick FLS.............who the fuck he is beats me.....
Who the hell is this?
no they didn't:
read and cry:
http://www.musclemecca.com/showthread.php/99-coleman-everyone-else-4268.html?t=4268
99 Coleman or 01 Coleman could beat any bodybuilder in history including Dorian 93 so really it doesnt matter
Hope this helps
99 Coleman or 01 Coleman could beat any bodybuilder in history including Dorian 93 so really it doesnt matter
Hope this helps
great post!
dude youre thinking way too much...im just another guy watching all the ronnie/dorian debates and just like majority of the people out there I know ronnie is better EVEN though Im a huge Dorian fan too.
dude youre thinking way too much...im just another guy watching all the ronnie/dorian debates and just like majority of the people out there I know ronnie is better EVEN though Im a huge Dorian fan too
like I said before, ND has to make long winded posts full of bullshit to help cover up the fact that all visuals show dorian getting crushed by a peak Ronnie Coleman..
we all know ronnie is better because we understand how the sport is judged, what the judges look for, what constitutes a better physique etc etc.
ND doesn't. he has no fucking clue.
alright since youre too retarded/delusional(refer to a previous post I put up on this thread on ND) to believe Im not a gimmick I will break down why Ronnie is better.
Ronnie's arms destroy Dorian's. true, Dorians tricep look great for a side tricep but that the only position his arms looked as good as Ronnies. Ronnies quad sweep destroy's Dorians. Even though Dorian was extrememly grainy his condition was neutralized by how shredded Ronnie was. And Dorian had one of the best backs ever, it just so happens that the only guy who had a better back was Ronnie. Ronnies back double bi was better, definetly thicker and deeper, and Ronnie's lat spread was better as well. His hamstrings and glutes destoryed Dorians, even though dorians were excellent as well. however no one could really beat Ronnie there. Both of there chests were great, I really cant decide whose I think is better. They both had bloated waistlines during the end of their careers although Dorian had better abs. Dorian killed Ronnie in calves and in certain poses like the FLS he could beat Ronnie and probably the abs and thighs pose and side tricep maybe.
With all this being said, Ronnie was/is the best ever. Honestly it isnt rocket science. Sure he had some bad moments, lost to Gunter controversially, but when he brought it no one could touch him. And Dorian won a few controversial Olympias just like Ronnie did in 01. However, I believe Ronnie's loss's show progress in competitive bodybuilding and are not a slight on his career. Before Ronnie lost, mr. Olympias could never lose a contest even though they weren't the best on that given night (aka Dorian at a few Mr. O's). The judges and competiton committees observed this criticism and tried to make bodybuilding more fair, so Ronnie lost the GNC Show of Strength and that Olympia to Jay. I think both of those decisision were correct and I've really liked the way contests have been judged for the past 5 years. So I believe it is progress showing and nothing else. If this judging had been going on during Dorians reign he'd probably have two less Mr. O titles. Also, Ronnie competed far more often as a Mr. Olympia than Dorian did, which gave him more chance to lose.
BTW I can like both Dorian and Ronnie at the same time. Really on this board its come down to picking a side which is as silly as a little girl. Are you a little girl, ND?
I acknowlege both of them for being awesome. Ronnie and Dorian arent even my fav bodybuilders, however, just like everyone else who is in their right mind I know Ronnie is better and I decided to throw my two cents for fun.
DEAL WITH IT.
dude youre thinking way too much...im just another guy watching all the ronnie/dorian debates and just like majority of the people out there I know ronnie is better EVEN though Im a huge Dorian fan too.
ok whatev...no wonder I dont post much
Are you a little girl, ND?
x 2
Thinking too much has never helped much with our mental midget here lol as you say the majority knows what's up without thinking much at all. ;)
I love how ND says 'our preference' as if our preference is somehow not exactly what the judges look for in the first place.
when it is..
ND somehow cannot comprehend that anyone besides Hulkster or Pumpster would post that Ronnie is better than Dorian.
That statement in itself should speak for how idiotic and delusional he is sounding right now.
Ronnie Coleman thinks Dorian is better and his opinion kills yours ;)
yeah and Dorian said Ronnie would beat him on BB Radio show. I bet if you asked Ronnie right now, he would say that at their bests Ronnie would no doubt win. Suck it
I'm the biggest Dorian fan around, but Lee Haney owns that pose IMO
what ND fails to realize is that ronnie's opinion doesnt mean shit.
because the reason for saying that is not because he feels dorian had a better physique.
he said dorian would win because at the time that the question was referring to, (97-98) dorian was fat and torn up, and the judges gave him the win anyway.
ronnie knows the politics that was dorian's reign.
they would give dorian the win over anyone no matter what.
that was their mandate.
besides, at the time, of the question, ronnie was not about to blow his own horn..
also, in subsequent questions, he said HE would win. ask Neo for the quote.
see, ND cherry picks which quotes to use and only looks at that.
he ignores all other quotes, even if they are contradictory,
and he ignores the visuals because they all show dorian getting owned by ronnie at his best.
Taken out of FLEX nov 1999, page 90. interview by jim schmaltz with ronnie before the 99 Olympia.
Jim: What would have happened last year if Dorian Yates (recently retired winner of 6 straight Mr. Olympias) had competed?
Ronnie: Dorian would have won again.
Jim: You think so?
Ronnie: I know so. Dorian has a big physique - hard- and he's been the man to beat, and its hard to knock the champion off the block. He's a big guy and has a lot going for him. He overcame so many adversities, like his torn biceps, I couldnt see too much else stopping him.
funny how you say it is only my opinion when pretty much all knowledgable people in the bb community know dorian doesn't come close..
::)
and the pics and videos you hate so much prove this every time.
I don't care what you asked these quotes render your opinion moot and as usual you have the audacity to claim and IFBB judge incorrect this is were your pride & stupidity overtake your logic , either it's not true and the IFBB judge and well as the others quoted are all involved in some big conspiracy to push this fallacy that Yates appears bigger than his fellow competitors whilst being lighter or it's true , see Occam's razor you should be familiar with it
and I'm taller and heavier than you who are you calling little man? little man
he pictures are NOT the same distance away from the camera as each other and you're bragging about how much bigger Ronnie looks compared to Dorianexplain how distance affects proportions at distances greater than 10 ft. The that means dick compared to reality brag when they're side-by-side not in two separate pictures
of course you would say you don't care b/c you have nothing to work with. You're fighting a losing battle so you cling to quotes b/c that's all you have. Funny how you post these quotes that say Dorian was the largest man onstage yet the pics and videos clearly show other competitors were larger. Since you seem to believe judges like the bible, then show me one pic of Dorian standing next to Paul Dillet or Lou Ferrigno and looking bigger than them.
bwahaha, suuure.
I'm still waiting for you to explain how distance affects proportions at distances greater than 10 ft. It's ok to admit when you are wrong. ;)
of course you would say you don't care b/c you have nothing to work with. You're fighting a losing battle so you cling to quotes b/c that's all you have. Funny how you post these quotes that say Dorian was the largest man onstage yet the pics and videos clearly show other competitors were larger. Since you seem to believe judges like the bible, then show me one pic of Dorian standing next to Paul Dillet or Lou Ferrigno and looking bigger than them.
A losing battle? so you're gonna stick to the conspiracy theory huh? all the eyewitness who actually attended the contest live & in person are ALL wrong and involved in some conspiracy to push this agenda Yates appeared bigger than men much larger than him but you Neo figured it all out by yourself and expose this mass conspiracy lmao and you have the balls to type I'm fighting a losing battle lmmfao same with the density & dryness more eyewitness you flat-out say are wrong a common trend with you
damn, sucks not having internet.
<yawn> show me one pic of Dorian standing next to Paul Dillet or Lou Ferrigno and looking bigger than them. Since you believe everything you read, if the judges say Dorian was the largest man onstage then surely there must be pics and videos to support this claim. ;)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Dorian%20Yates/1993Mr-9.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Dorian%20Yates/1994Mr-4.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Dorian%20Yates/1993Mr-10.jpg)
oh, and I'm still waiting for you to explain how distance affects proportions at distances greater than 10 ft. It's ok to admit when you are wrong.
Who gives a shit? Where did Dillett and Ferrigno place, and who won the contest? Nuff Said.
apparently ND gives a shit since he's using those quotes to argue why Dorian would look bigger onstage than Ronnie. It has nothing to do with where Dillet and Ferrigno placed. So f*ck off unless you have something intelligent to say.
apparently ND gives a shit since he's using those quotes to argue why Dorian would look bigger than Ronnie. The discussion has nothing to do with where Dillet and Ferrigno placed. So f*ck off unless you have something intelligent to say.
damn, sucks not having internet.
<yawn> show me one pic of Dorian standing next to Paul Dillet or Lou Ferrigno and looking bigger than them. Since you believe everything you read, if the judges say Dorian was the largest man onstage then surely there must be pics and videos to support this claim. ;)
oh, and I'm still waiting for you to explain how distance affects proportions at distances greater than 10 ft. It's ok to admit when you are wrong.
Meltdown! LMFAO!
meltdown and heed your own advice troll
First, I didn't disagree with Peter McGough's claim that Ronnie was never harder or drier than Dorian.
again your quote
I'm sorry but Peter McGough is an idiot if he thinks 01 ASC Ronnie never surpassed Dorian's conditioning.
hahaha, wtf? If you call that a meltdown, then every post here is a meltdown. I hate to break it to you but you're nothing special. It's possible for others to respond candidly without getting worked up over what some anonymous person said online.
where is the contradiction?
I don't have to show YOU shit pictures are worthless compared to being on stage , if you feel comfortable contradicting an IFBB judge and others who have said Dorian appears bigger knock yourself out , people like you aren't to be entertained just laughed at because you're not operating in reality
crickets
hahaha, wtf? If you call that a meltdown, then every post here is a meltdown. I hate to break it to you but you're nothing special. It's possible for others to respond candidly without getting worked up over what some anonymous person said online.
wrong, if you are going to claim that a 257 lbs guy was bigger than a 280 lbs guy and a 300 lbs guy, then you damn well better have some proof. ;)
I have nothing intelligent to say
The proof who are multiple experts who were there , but they don't mean anything to you because their point of view can't compute in your ignorant biased head
again the onus is on YOU to prove otherwise and posting a few select pics doesn't prove anything other than how limited pictures are
It's laughable how these simpletons try and debate one of the, if not the single most dominant victory in the history of the sport. 1993 Yates obliterated everyone and they continually place the burden of proof on us to provide evidence supporting this. The history books have been written, but they don't like what it has to say, so they dispute anything and everything pro Dorian. In their eyes, everyone is looking at Yates through rose colored glasses. The competitors who were there, fans, judges, magazine writers. All who were witness to Yates' crushing victories are wrong, on the sole bases that their opinions don't feed into the troll's twisted biases.
hehehehehehehe Hulkster has out right said Dorian LOST this contest , hen again very typical of his stupidity in fact he's now claimed at one time or another Dorian lost EVERY Olympia contest he entered in fact said Gunther 2002 would beat Yates 1995 lol
I laugh point and move on it's all one can do
Huckster likes to convince himself of this, as that way he doesn't have to face the realization that Ronnie is the only Olympia champion to get his ass handed to him by a second tier bodybuilder.
At least Sergio lost to Arnold-fucking-Schwarzenegger , Ronnie to Gunther lol :-X
more irony from Mr sensitive who felt compelled to post his ' resume ' lol
The proof who are multiple experts who were there , but they don't mean anything to you because their point of view can't compute in your ignorant biased head
again the onus is on YOU to prove otherwise and posting a few select pics doesn't prove anything other than how limited pictures are
sounds like something you would say to mask your insecurity. Explain how adding credibility to my sn is ironic and makes me sensitive. ;)
That's awfully presumptive.
Words mean nothing if the pics and videos show otherwise.
explain how adding credibility to my sn is ironic and makes me sensitive. ;)
Back on topic , I mean this pose lacks absolutely nothing spectacular !
bwahaha, I'm still waiting on the visual evidence. Words mean nothing if the pics and videos show otherwise.
I provided 3 pics that clearly show Dorian was not the largest man onstage contrary to what the judges said.
wrong. it lacks cuts in the delts, arms, quads etc.. it lacks well proportioned arms (not undersized). the lats overpower the twigs.
credibility? did you just type credibility? lmao a certified personal trainer makes you credible on who is better conditioned than an IFBB judge and one of the most knowledgeable professional writers in the game ?
you tried to prove to me that you're smart and you failed the moment you listed your ' credentials ' lol it was worth a laugh though , your inferiority complex kicked into gear when you were overwhelmed you're probably not even aware of it , you're a funny character you try to hard to appear smart it speaks volumes about your insecurities
ah well, I'm off to the gym. I'll let ND and Mr.1derful continue posting in my absence. Who knows... maybe I'll compete in the next Mr. Getbig. I've put on a lot of size and worked on my weaknesses since Mr. Getbig 2. I would encourage ND to enter since he claims he's bigger than me but I know he'll just come up with an excuse to pussy out. ;)
No shit. I have yet to see this kid type anything indicating the remotest shred of intellect, and he thinks he has some form of credibility? Truly laughable. Makes you wonder if this guy is just a gimmick.
crickets
LMMFAO at your ' internet challenge ' ranks right up there with pumpster's Bowflex bench-off challenge you're in good company with that moron
Hahahahahaha still trying to beat me huh? realize you can't match wits and intellect now try some feeble attempt at beating me physically lol have you grown little man? and I said I weighed more than you and I'm taller in response to your claim of me being ' little '
Someone kill me when I'm reduced to posting pictures of myself on an internet message board seeking GetBig respect and praise ! I have nothing to prove hence I don't post pictures I'll leave that to little guys with something to prove ;D ;)
credibility? did you just type credibility? lmao a certified personal trainer makes you credible on who is better conditioned than an IFBB judge and one of the most knowledgeable professional writers in the game ?
you tried to prove to me that you're smart and you failed the moment you listed your ' credentials ' lol it was worth a laugh though , your inferiority complex kicked into gear when you were overwhelmed you're probably not even aware of it , you're a funny character you try to hard to appear smart it speaks volumes about your insecurities
LMMFAO at your ' internet challenge ' ranks right up there with pumpster's Bowflex bench-off challenge you're in good company with that moron
Hahahahahaha still trying to beat me huh? realize you can't match wits and intellect now try some feeble attempt at beating me physically lol have you grown little man? and I said I weighed more than you and I'm taller in response to your claim of me being ' little '
he's a certified personal trainer through his knowledge on competitive professional bodybuilding surpasses Peter McGoughs despite never once being at a pro contest or seeing Ronnie & Dorian live & person , what does Peter know? it's not like he's been in the game over 40 years and has attended live & in person almost every major pro show , of the fact he was an editor of the biggest bodybuilding magazine in the history of the sport ! a guy who has never taken sides and has remained objective and honest , this guy who claimed balance & proportion were the same thing knows more sitting at home lol
Not unlike how Ronnie was no challenge to Dorian.
ND's template for arguments:
1) lmao
2) insult poster
3) post quotes
Double negative. I think Coleman could teach you some grammar.
Creating fictitious grammar rules as a result of a lack of response on the topic at hand. Not the first time you've been stumped tranny chaser.
exactly.you keep saying "smooth" like if Yates was not in shape. i said it before, carve and polish a physique from marble it will look the same as Yates. you wont understand this but that is ok. ;D
dorian had great lats, but he was smooth as a babies ass in that pose. actually, most of the poses from the front..
I mean honestly: :-\
thanks for illustrating my point exactly:you are owning yourself with this pic. ronnie looking bunched and narrow in the delts / chest. delts waaay to big for the pecs. Yates looking much harder too, with striations that you cry about so much over.
your words on the screen never match up to real life: in fact, they are disproven soundly.
::)
maybe you are finally getting it? nah, doubt it..
ND's template for arguments:
1) lmao
2) insult poster
3) post quotes
I'm still waiting for the visual evidence that shows Dorian was the largest guy onstage. ;)
haha, who said anything about an internet challenge? No offense but you would actually have to be a threat to be a challenge. I was just encouraging you to enter if you think you're physically better than me in any way.
I couldn't care less if you don't think I can match wits and intellect with you. Anyone with a brain knows my logic and argumentative skills are far beyond yours. All you do is evade tough questions and pick which quotes to accept or ignore.
case in point:
explain why I should believe the judges that Dorian was the largest guy onstage when the pics clearly show he wasn't, yet you won't believe Joe Weider - the founder of the IFBB and the guy who wrote the judging criteria - who agrees that Ronnie had the greatest physique of all-time.
Joe Weider - IFBB Co-Founder
"Many experts, including reigning Mr.Olympia, Jay Cutler, believe that at his best Ronnie has the greatest physique of all-time. When looking at pictures of Ronnie from the 1998 Mr.Olympia, I find it hard to argue with that."
haha, who said anything about an internet challenge? No offense but you would actually have to be a threat to be a challenge. I was just encouraging you to enter if you think you're physically better than me in any way.
I couldn't care less if you don't think I can match wits and intellect with you. Anyone with a brain knows my logic and argumentative skills are far beyond yours. All you do is evade tough questions and pick which quotes to accept or ignore.
case in point:
explain why I should believe the judges that Dorian was the largest guy onstage when the pics clearly show he wasn't, yet you won't believe Joe Weider - the founder of the IFBB and the guy who wrote the judging criteria - who agrees that Ronnie had the greatest physique of all-time.
Joe Weider - IFBB Co-Founder
"Many experts, including reigning Mr.Olympia, Jay Cutler, believe that at his best Ronnie has the greatest physique of all-time. When looking at pictures of Ronnie from the 1998 Mr.Olympia, I find it hard to argue with that."
My arguments are based on the IFBB judging criteria which you didn't know , still don't know and deny to this day , your posts give me much to laugh at , I only attack ones intelligence based on what they post and the quotes 9 times out of 10 confirm what I've said after the fact
keep claiming the judges are wrong because you can't see what they did LIVE an in PERSON again the onus is on you to prove them wrong and a couple of carefully selected pics isn't proof
hahaha, bullshit you're arguments are based on the judging criteria
You did right here
again ranks right up there with pumpster's Bowflex bench-off beyond gay. And you don't know if I'm a threat of not so you can't say either way you're working under assumption and we all know what they say about that. And this statement reveals alot about your inferiority complex I was just encouraging you to enter if you think you're physically better than me in any way. I never claimed to be better than in ' physically ' this is my original quote in response to you calling me ' little man '
and you balked at the idea I'm both taller & heavier than you bwahaha, suuure. like it's out of the realm of possibility that I might be taller than 5'7" and weigh more than 180 lbs ( or whatever you are )
I never ran from anything you are anyone else typed ever hence why I'm pushing 30K posts , so much for that theory you use weak , faulty logic , try and bog down the argument with semantics when pushed on your nonsense , ad populum appeals and stawman comparisons you run the gambit of the intellectually bankrupt and I've addressed every single quote you ever posted as well and the irony of you of all people claiming people pick & choose quotes something you're guilty of
Now onto the topic of Joe Weider he never claimed Ronnie had the best physique of all time he said it's hard to argue with the assessment , there is a difference you see what you want in quotes ! and FYI the judging criteria was around BEFORE Joe Weider contests were being held long before the IFBB ( try reading sometime ) ever hear of the Greek Ideal? you think the Weider's created that?
The whole back issue is arguable the conditioning isn't , they said Dorian had the best back of the 20 century that includes Ronnie 98/99 so it's arguable
Team Flex said Stubbs has the best back compared to both I'm sure you agree with them too? if not than trow out all their quotes for pro-Ronnie ( under your own logic )
While I’m on record as saying that the best physique I ever saw was Ronnie’s at the 2001 Arnold, he was never drier or harder than Dorian. In fact now that – 14 years after it happened – I recently for the first time saw the video of Dorian posing before the 1993 Olympia I have cause to rethink. I’m now not sure that Ronnie at 245 pounds would beat Dorian at 269 pounds. At a bigger bodyweight I think Ronnie would look soft next to an in-shape rock-hard Dorian.
On the subject of conditioning, no-one did it better than Dorian. He achieved a hardness and dryness (without losing fullness) that nobody has ever matched. In the flesh he looked even harder than he did in photos. It was like a statue made of granite was standing in front of you.
Peter McGough Flex Magazine August 2005
Personally, the best physique I ever saw onstage (there was a contender for best-ever that I saw offstage: those crazy photos of sock-footed Dorian Yates taken seven weeks before the 1993 Mr. Olympia) was Ronnie's at the 2001 Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic. He was cut, full, trim in the waist and a monster (proving that when you're supersharp, you look superbig) at 244 pounds. Ronnie sporting that look would, in my opinion, be unbeatable and would make any criticisms as redundant as a chocolate squat rack.
Peter McGough Flex Magazine May 2002
Let it be said that the camera can lie at physique contests. Some guys look great onstage but not so great on final film (Dorian Yates, for one) and vice versa (Shawn Ray is an example).
So interesting that this dude Peter McGough says that the camera can lie at physique contest. However he bases his claims about "best ever" on watching the video of 93' Olympia or the pics of Dorian with socks.
nice!
McGough was also there in person on both accounts, so you can save your self congratulatory circle jerk.
McGough was also there in person on both accounts, so you can save your self congratulatory circle jerk.
Too bad he didn't think so when he was there. He had to see the video 14 years later.
Oh, and I don't think he was there when Horton took those socks pics.
Thanks for trying.
Yes, he was. Go back to the kids table, where you belong.
Too bad for you he cites the pics as his source, not his visual memory.
"(there was a contender for best-ever that I saw offstage: those crazy photos of sock-footed Dorian Yates taken seven weeks before the 1993 Mr. Olympia) " Peter Mc Gough.
Idiot.
hahaha, bullshit you're arguments are based on the judging criteria otherwise you would acknowledge Ronnie is the better bodybuilder. But keep deluding yourself into believing you are more knowledgable than all of us. ;)
carefully selected pics? lol. I posted 3 examples of head on shots where both are standing the same distance from the camera. It doesn't get any more clear cut than that. Since you have scans of every contest, why don't you post a pic that proves Dorian was bigger than Paul Dillet and Lou Ferrigno? I've already proved the judges wrong. Now the onus is on you to prove the judges right otherwise you concede you're mistaken.
hahaha, bullshit you're arguments are based on the judging criteria otherwise you would acknowledge Ronnie is the better bodybuilder. But keep deluding yourself into believing you are more knowledgable than all of us. ;)
carefully selected pics? lol. I posted 3 examples of head on shots where both are standing the same distance from the camera. It doesn't get any more clear cut than that. Since you have scans of every contest, why don't you post a pic that proves Dorian was bigger than Paul Dillet and Lou Ferrigno? I've already proved the judges wrong. Now the onus is on you to prove the judges right otherwise you concede you're mistaken.
again, who said anything about an internet challenge? All I see is me encouraging you to enter the Mr. Getbig.
I know for a fact that you're not a threat. You spend way too much time posting on here, work at a flower shop, come up with excuses not to post your pics, and you like to boast about how long you've been following bodybuilding which suggests you are much older and most likely not in the same shape as me. ;)
I'm actually 5'8" and weight means nothing if you don't look your body weight. You may be 6 ft and 200 lbs @ 15% body fat, but I will look bigger at 5'8" and 182 lbs @ 10% body fat.
bwahaha, I swear you're talking to a mirror b/c you just described yourself. :D
oh please! If he finds it hard to argue with experts about Ronnie having the best physique ever, then it means he's in agreement with them. What else could Joe Weider have possibly meant?
conditioning is arguable. Unless you have hydrostatic measurements of Dorian and Ronnie at their primes, then claiming Dorian had better conditioning is moot.
???
The 20 best backs of all time - Flex, March 2008
20. albert beckles
19. melvin anthony
18. thierry pastel
17. tony pearson
16. sergio oliva
15. orville burke
14. art atwood
13. flex wheeler
12. robby robinson
11. mohamed benaziza
10. victor martinez
9. michael francois
8. samir bannout
7. jean-pierre fux
6. jay cutler
5. franco columbu
4. lee haney
3. joel stubbs
2. dorian yates
1. ronnie coleman
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0KFY/is_1_26/ai_n24356572/pg_1?tag=artBody;col1
again, who said anything about an internet challenge? All I see is me encouraging you to enter the Mr. Getbig.
I know for a fact that you're not a threat. You spend way too much time posting on here, work at a flower shop, come up with excuses not to post your pics, and you like to boast about how long you've been following bodybuilding which suggests you are much older and most likely not in the same shape as me. ;)
I'm actually 5'8" and weight means nothing if you don't look your body weight. You may be 6 ft and 200 lbs @ 15% body fat, but I will look bigger at 5'8" and 182 lbs @ 10% body fat.
bwahaha, I swear you're talking to a mirror b/c you just described yourself. :D
oh please! If he finds it hard to argue with experts about Ronnie having the best physique ever, then it means he's in agreement with them. What else could Joe Weider have possibly meant?
conditioning is arguable. Unless you have hydrostatic measurements of Dorian and Ronnie at their primes, then claiming Dorian had better conditioning is moot.Quote
No conditioning is NOT arguable only ignorant fan-boys will try and argue otherwise , unless you knew what constitutes conditioning in the first place and actually being live and in person at all mentioned contests and were honest & objective then you could claim who was better conditioned so any opinion you render to the contrary is rendered mootQuoteThe 20 best backs of all time - Flex, March 2008
This proves what? Ronnie came out on one list I could post a host of other people and polls saying Dorian has a better back and the best back , this means what? how does this ONE single poll render them wrong? how about Ronnie's assessment that Dorian had the freakiest back he ever seen? good luck explaining that one
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0KFY/is_10_23/ai_n15894922/?tag=content;col1
So interesting that this dude Peter McGough says that the camera can lie at physique contest.
However he bases his claims about "best ever" on watching the video of 93' Olympia or the pics of Dorian with socks. ::)
Too bad for you he cites the pics as his source, not his visual memory.
"(there was a contender for best-ever that I saw offstage: those crazy photos of sock-footed Dorian Yates taken seven weeks before the 1993 Mr. Olympia) " Peter Mc Gough.
Idiot.
;)
Peter McGough - Flex, August 2005
"Ronnie sporting that [01 ASC] look would, in my opinion, be unbeatable."
funny how he saw both in person and thought Ronnie was better, yet watching a video made him doubt himself.
Too bad he didn't think so when he was there. He had to see the video 14 years later.
Oh, and I don't think he was there when Horton took those socks pics.
Thanks for trying.
Don't feel bad, at least you were right on one account.
"I was present at the shoot, which took place in Birmingham, England, at Dorian's fabled Temple Gym--a subterranean sweat mill that makes the Count of Monte Cristo's dungeon look like Martha Stewart's living room. It was July 20, and after a year in Los Angeles, I had returned to my homeland as a stop-off on my way to the 1993 World Games starting a few days later in Den Haag, Holland."
I replied, "You could go on the Olympia stage as you are now, untanned and in your skivvies and socks, and just walk away with the title."
Seven weeks later, he was such an unstoppable force at the 1993 Mr. Olympia that 1983 Mr. O Samir Bannout declared, "Dorian was first, second and third."
Better head back to the batting cage son, you're not ready for the big leagues. Thanks for playing. lol
its so sad how the nuthuggers entire argument centers on the opinion of a (good friend of dorian and fellow countryman) Peter McGough when all the visuals disprove many of the man's opinions..
I still love his comment about how a precontest yates was "harder than ronnie EVER was"
or that "98 was softer than 99" LOL
reality check buddy: ::)
this limey is full of priceless gems LOL
Dorians condition is still hailed to this day just like Ronnie being the best is still hailed.
Hope this helps
Ronnie 8
Dorian 6
And Dorian said I guess I don't know.
how many o's ronnie have?
dorian?
hope this helps
how many o's ronnie have?
dorian?
hope this helps
It won't, ND's math skillz need work.
Having to resort to the non-contest and now-infamous "black sox shots" speaks volumes. :-*
why? dorian was never good enough to win the AC.
dorian would have lost had he tried to do the AC..
What a complete idiot. LMFAO dorian not good enough my ass. Dorian had no desire to compete in the AC.I dont see anyone beating this even today :o
This back double bi is the best ever.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=173167.0;attach=336383;image)
how many AC wins does ronnie have?
1.
how many does the one armed bandit have?
ZERO.
why? dorian was never good enough to win the AC.
so many guys hit some of their best ever shapes at the AC, eg. Ronnie 01 (arguably). Taylor 92, Flex 93, Kevin 94..
dorian would have lost had he tried to do the AC..
how many AC wins does ronnie have?
1.
how many does the one armed bandit have?
ZERO.
why? dorian was never good enough to win the AC.
so many guys hit some of their best ever shapes at the AC, eg. Ronnie 01 (arguably). Taylor 92, Flex 93, Kevin 94..
dorian would have lost had he tried to do the AC..
You think that means something how many of the O's did he beat Dorian? NONE
how many of the O's would he have if Dorian never got hurt? according to Ronnie , Dorian would have kept winning ;)
Right I guess it means nothing that Ronnie won more O's than Dorian. Oh and longevity is part of the game, if lifting super heavy is what got you there then you can complain when it causes you adversity. And yes 98 Coleman would have crushed any Dorian including an uninjured Dorian, even if Coleman didnt think he was gonna win. Cause guess what, He probably didnt think he was gonna win the 98 Olympia anyways but he did.
Right I guess it means nothing that Ronnie won more O's than Dorian. Oh and longevity is part of the game, if lifting super heavy is what got you there then you can complain when it causes you adversity. And yes 98 Coleman would have crushed any Dorian including an uninjured Dorian, even if Coleman didnt think he was gonna win. Cause guess what, He probably didnt think he was gonna win the 98 Olympia anyways but he did.
1 Ronnie Coleman USA 17 5 5 5 32
2 Flex Wheeler USA 5 10 10 10 35
Barely? After the first round he received perfect scores...Get it right buddy, dont bring bullshit to the convo
1 Ronnie Coleman USA 17 5 5 5 32
2 Flex Wheeler USA 5 10 10 10 35
Barely? After the first round he received perfect scores...Get it right buddy, dont bring bullshit to the convo
8 years and 17 contests is not longevity...lol cmon man I think Cormier competed more than 17 times in one year alone!
Ronnie dominated even a sharper Flex in 99, receiving perfect scores for the entire contest.
Ronnie had competiton, some of the same competition Dorian had and new blood as well.
And Dorian won controversaily more times than you can count. I mean Levrone looked better than him at times, Nasser, Ray
Doubt Dorian ever did that.
Add all those notes together and this is what you get
Ronnie>Dorian
barely? only on the scorecard was it barely, he blew everyone away. cause how judging was performed. Had no names been or reputations been known in that Olympia, he would have had perfect scores throughout.
Im also curious, do you have Dorians scorecards from his Olympias? Im interested to see how he scored.
barely? only on the scorecard was it barely, he blew everyone away. cause how judging was performed. Had no names been or reputations been known in that Olympia, he would have had perfect scores throughout.
Im also curious, do you have Dorians scorecards from his Olympias? Im interested to see how he scored.
It's the score sheet that determines the winner, Merlin. You don't seem to like stats and figures that don't suite your biased agenda, so be careful what you wish for, as you won't like how totally dominant Dorian was on the score sheets. Not to mention, he never lost to an also ran like Gunter and he certainly never lost his Olympia title, like Ronnie did to Jay.
Hell Ronnie was getting beat in the challenge round to Dex and Gustavo
Ronnie lost a LOT in fact much more than he won ! 17 years of losing a bunch of contests not saying much , Dorian was wiser and in fact a winner right off the bat so he didn't have to compete in shit shows to try and earn money and when he edid become champ he picked his battles and it served him well
Flex wasn't better in 99 than 98 ??? and neither were as good as 93 ;)
Ronnie beat guys past their primes that Dorian beat for years , not saying it's his fault Ronnie can only compete with guys who show up , and the new blood would be left for dead in the mid-nineties not saying much
Controversy in reigns? 93 Dorian beat a neat best ever Flex , Flex raises his hand and claims he's ' unbeatable ' 99 Flex claims he's number one and turns his back on Ronnie , Kevin outright said he beat Ronnie in 2000 and 2002 , Jay beat him in 2001 ( prejudging ) 2004 Jay could have beat him it was so close same with 1998 , as a Coleman fan don't cry controversy because Ronnie is knee deep in it
and add all those up and Dorian beats Ronnie as usual , just purely from a statistical standpoint Dorian would beat Ronnie 8 wins to none , 40% win/loss ratio compared to 88% ;D couple that with the fact Ronnie said on multiple occasions he doesn't think he would beat Dorian and you have Dorian > Ronnie
Ok lets be real for a second. First off, Dorian beat Flex and Levrone when they were young. Flex was a newcomer to the Olympia stage and so was Kevin in 92. Now I believe Dorian won in 92 and 93, but had Kevin and Flex been a veteran like a Lee Labrada by 92 and 93 they would have scored alot closer to Dorian than they did(although i dont know the scorecards anyways. Do you have those?) Had Levrone not torn his pec and had Wheeler not been in that car accident, who knows if they wouldve beat Dorian in those middle years.
By 98 and 99 Flex knew he had to win an Olympia, he had all the pressure on him and his ego had exploded. He couldnt take the fact that Ronnie beat him, so he lashed out. Ive read several MD articles where Wheeler gives huge props to Ronnie and says he was the best ever blah blah blah. What happened was emotion in the heat of battle.
Levrone looked his best in 2000 and 2002. Flex looked just as good in 99 as he did in 93. He had more mass in 99, more of a name for himself and more star power in 99. Likewise Levrone was more of a monster and had more star power in 2000 and 2002 than he did against Dorian.
Im pretty fair I think, but Dorian shouldve lost at least 2 mr. Os in my opinion. Ronnie shouldve lost to Cutler and Levrone. Thats my opinion.
And what is Ronnies winning percentage since he won the Mr. O? I believe he lost twice, once at the SOS and once to Cutler that dethroned him. I believe Ronnie won more shows in that timespan that dorian EVER won.
Id still like to see Dorians scorecards...
Ok lets be real for a second. First off, Dorian beat Flex and Levrone when they were young. Flex was a newcomer to the Olympia stage and so was Kevin in 92. Now I believe Dorian won in 92 and 93, but had Kevin and Flex been a veteran like a Lee Labrada by 92 and 93 they would have scored alot closer to Dorian than they did(although i dont know the scorecards anyways. Do you have those?) Had Levrone not torn his pec and had Wheeler not been in that car accident, who knows if they wouldve beat Dorian in those middle years.
By 98 and 99 Flex knew he had to win an Olympia, he had all the pressure on him and his ego had exploded. He couldnt take the fact that Ronnie beat him, so he lashed out. Ive read several MD articles where Wheeler gives huge props to Ronnie and says he was the best ever blah blah blah. What happened was emotion in the heat of battle.
Levrone looked his best in 2000 and 2002. Flex looked just as good in 99 as he did in 93. He had more mass in 99, more of a name for himself and more star power in 99. Likewise Levrone was more of a monster and had more star power in 2000 and 2002 than he did against Dorian.
Im pretty fair I think, but Dorian shouldve lost at least 2 mr. Os in my opinion. Ronnie shouldve lost to Cutler and Levrone. Thats my opinion.
And what is Ronnies winning percentage since he won the Mr. O? I believe he lost twice, once at the SOS and once to Cutler that dethroned him. I believe Ronnie won more shows in that timespan that dorian EVER won.
Ok lets be real for a second. First off, Dorian beat Flex and Levrone when they were young. Flex was a newcomer to the Olympia stage and so was Kevin in 92. Now I believe Dorian won in 92 and 93, but had Kevin and Flex been a veteran like a Lee Labrada by 92 and 93 they would have scored alot closer to Dorian than they did(although i dont know the scorecards anyways. Do you have those?) Had Levrone not torn his pec and had Wheeler not been in that car accident, who knows if they wouldve beat Dorian in those middle years.
By 98 and 99 Flex knew he had to win an Olympia, he had all the pressure on him and his ego had exploded. He couldnt take the fact that Ronnie beat him, so he lashed out. Ive read several MD articles where Wheeler gives huge props to Ronnie and says he was the best ever blah blah blah. What happened was emotion in the heat of battle.
Levrone looked his best in 2000 and 2002. Flex looked just as good in 99 as he did in 93. He had more mass in 99, more of a name for himself and more star power in 99. Likewise Levrone was more of a monster and had more star power in 2000 and 2002 than he did against Dorian.
Im pretty fair I think, but Dorian shouldve lost at least 2 mr. Os in my opinion. Ronnie shouldve lost to Cutler and Levrone. Thats my opinion.
And what is Ronnies winning percentage since he won the Mr. O? I believe he lost twice, once at the SOS and once to Cutler that dethroned him. I believe Ronnie won more shows in that timespan that dorian EVER won.
Id still like to see Dorians scorecards...
yeah and 2003 is his best
and Dorian was never harder & drier
than Ronnie and balance & proportion are the same thing,
I mean shall I continue? I may not know more than everyone but I show as fuck know know a lot more than you
stop trying to pass the buck it's YOU who is claiming the judges are wrong based on an inaccurate means , more of your faulty logic on your behalf , you know you can't so you'll try and put the onus on me not how it works nice try
and to show Im not a "troll" or whatever, Ronnie lost to Gunter. Thats fair, Dorian never lost to someone like that. I give Gunter props he looked outstanding and Ronnie just wasnt ready and shouldnt have competed. Ronnie liked competiting but probably was too cocky and believed he couldnt lose. Dorian was shrewd enough however to wait out every year, which in the end added to his legacy cause had Dorian competed during his reign like Ronnie did during his, Dorian probably would have lost as well. But he didnt which adds to his legacy.
ok well I disagree. I believe Kevin looked best in 2000. his second best was 2002. I didnt like his look in 94 post tear, 95 or 97. He either wasnt large enough or he wasnt conditioned enough. In 2000 and 20002 he was huge and conditioned. Levrone did look awesome in 92 but was only a rookie. Had Levrone looked liked his 92 self in 94-97, he may have beaten Dorian.
Flex obviously looked best 93 Arnold, then either 93 O or 99 Olympia. For me, he was MORE OF A THREAT at the 98/99 Olympia because of who he was at that time. 93, he was an upand comer. By 98/99 he was the chosen one and was EXPECTED to win the Olympia. He was not expected to win in 93.
And while Dorians competiton was better than Colemans minus 98 and 99, I do believe that neither Wheeler nor Levrone hit their peaks against Dorian except when they were both rookies. Nasser however and Ray did, and i believe they both should have won an Olympia against dorian.
ok well I disagree. I believe Kevin looked best in 2000. his second best was 2002. I didnt like his look in 94 post tear, 95 or 97. He either wasnt large enough or he wasnt conditioned enough. In 2000 and 20002 he was huge and conditioned. Levrone did look awesome in 92 but was only a rookie. Had Levrone looked liked his 92 self in 94-97, he may have beaten Dorian.
Flex obviously looked best 93 Arnold, then either 93 O or 99 Olympia. For me, he was MORE OF A THREAT at the 98/99 Olympia because of who he was at that time. 93, he was an upand comer. By 98/99 he was the chosen one and was EXPECTED to win the Olympia. He was not expected to win in 93.
And while Dorians competiton was better than Colemans minus 98 and 99, I do believe that neither Wheeler nor Levrone hit their peaks against Dorian except when they were both rookies. Nasser however and Ray did, and i believe they both should have won an Olympia against dorian.
I agree in that Levrone looked good in 2000, and in fact I was pulling for him. In 2002, his conditioning was very good, but he was a touch flat and his quads cost him a title that was all but his. A missed opportunity for him, I feel.
please when your pathetic attempt at an internet-challenge failed you're trying to escape the ridicule of the absurdity of it by claiming the contrary . again gayer than a Bowflex bench-off challenge
I average 13 posts a day don't mistake me for fat-Dave , so you don't know if I'm a ' threat ' that's you jumping to conclusions once again, and work? again I don't work at a flower shop strike two I never gave an excuse to not posting pictures strike three . I'm above posting my pictures on an internet message board I think it's sad posting pictures of yourself on an internet message board looking for approval & internet respect maybe you need that I don't.
Now you're reduced to wondering if I'm shape or not and comparing myself to you which proves my point you don't know. you couldn't beat me in any argument now you want to try physically because you failed mentally so much for not considering me a ' threat '
yeah I agree. even though ive been fighting for Ronnie alot lately, kevin's is my fav bodybuilder
I was pushing for Kevin to win for several years, but he was always just shy of getting it done. The hallmark of someone who wins the O seems to be consistent drive and work ethic, which I'm not sure Kevin had. I do believe he trained hard at times, but I don't feel he had the consistency he needed to give him that little extra to win it all. As referenced, I feel 2002 was an open door that he could have slammed shut if he had wanted it more.
Not to take anything away from Dexter, but it's odd when you had these genetic marvels like Kevin and Flex who never won, and now you've got Dexter as the champ, who I just don't equate to being on their level. I'm not saying Dex wasn't deserving, it's just that even with a Sandow, I don't see him as a Mr. O.
notice: Ronnie was so far ahead by the evening show they didnt even put them side by side
when its really close, they always position them side by side.
a key note that of course idiots like them would overlook...
but knowledgable people like us recognize immediately.
because we know the sport..
yeah as far as I know after the 94 Olympia kevin never worked out for 8-10months straight in prep for the Olympia. Had he put in 3-5 years of maximum effort in the offseason, who knows. And as far as Dexter is concerned, he may not be as dominating as Levrone or Wheeler or Nasser or Ray, but Im glad he won last year instead of Cutler. Honestly he's probably gonna be like a Bannout or Dickerson, one and done.
Not that the O is a personality contest, but I'm just not a fan of Dexter's. I agree, Cutler needed to lose, being he didn't bring it for the second year in a row. It was almost disappointing to have that happen, being that he worked his ass off to finally get the title. However, the same ethic to get it, needed to be applied to keep it. As unlikely as it may be, I'd like to see Jay put it together again and bring his best and go out on a high note. 3 Arnold titles and 3 O's would put a stamp on a truly notable career. Jay gets sh*t on a lot on the boards, but he seems like a decent representative of the sport and has accomplished a lot. He may be considered boring, but he is an inoffensive individual who doesn't garner the credit he may deserve.
Very good point. With G4P and alot of other disgusting activities associated with bodybuilding, it is extremely refreshing to see individuals like Jay show off the sport in positive light(although in the documentary Bigger Faster Stronger he bassically admitted bodybuilders take illegal substances to gain the edge).
If Jay got another Olympia that would be a crowning achievement for him but this will be the toughest contest since he beat Ronnie.
Funny thing is, even with jay's 2 Olympias and 3 Arnold classic victories I still consider Levrone and Wheeler to be better pros.
Ok lets be real for a second. First off, Dorian beat Flex and Levrone when they were young. Flex was a newcomer to the Olympia stage and so was Kevin in 92. Now I believe Dorian won in 92 and 93, but had Kevin and Flex been a veteran like a Lee Labrada by 92 and 93 they would have scored alot closer to Dorian than they did(although i dont know the scorecards anyways. Do you have those?) Had Levrone not torn his pec and had Wheeler not been in that car accident, who knows if they wouldve beat Dorian in those middle years.Now this is the very thing thats difficult for people in general to grasp in that a older more mature bb is a "better one" as in a 1999 Flex wheeler was "as good" or "better" than a 1993 Flex because he was older, had more mass, his muscles were more "rounder" mature etc, in 1993 the smaller version of flex was very compete in terms of shape, seperation, his actual muscalurity at the time was very very good, posing etc etc...the 1999 version was bigger...........thats it with very suspect site injections of oil etc, his hams, glutes etc were alot less seperated etc, a bigger, older, version of a BB is not in alot of cases a better one IMO
By 98 and 99 Flex knew he had to win an Olympia, he had all the pressure on him and his ego had exploded. He couldnt take the fact that Ronnie beat him, so he lashed out. Ive read several MD articles where Wheeler gives huge props to Ronnie and says he was the best ever blah blah blah. What happened was emotion in the heat of battle.
Levrone looked his best in 2000 and 2002. Flex looked just as good in 99 as he did in 93. He had more mass in 99, more of a name for himself and more star power in 99. Likewise Levrone was more of a monster and had more star power in 2000 and 2002 than he did against Dorian.
Im pretty fair I think, but Dorian shouldve lost at least 2 mr. Os in my opinion. Ronnie shouldve lost to Cutler and Levrone. Thats my opinion.
And what is Ronnies winning percentage since he won the Mr. O? I believe he lost twice, once at the SOS and once to Cutler that dethroned him. I believe Ronnie won more shows in that timespan that dorian EVER won.
Id still like to see Dorians scorecards...
if you want to prove me wrong, then post a quote from an IFBB judge who disagrees with me. ;)
IFBB Website - History of the Mr. Olympia
"The night (October 25, 2003) was Ronnie's. Whatever doubt people had was dispelled as soon as Ronnie hit the stage. He was in his best shape ever, at 39 years old."
http://www.ifbbpro.com/history-of-the-mr-olympia/4/
Ronnie at the 01 ASC surpassed Dorian's conditioning.
in before lame excuse from ND about how my comparison is biased and the scaling somehow affects separations and striations. ::)
they are the same thing, idiot. Look them up in the dictionary. If you're using the IFBB definitions, then explain how a judge is suppose to tell if the mass of one side is equal to the other. I wonder if you ever stopped to use your brain and think about that for a second.
Dorian Yates - Flex, October 2006
"Symmetry means one side is shaped the same as the other side--its mirror image. Balance means the mass of one side is equal to that of the other, even though their shapes, or symmetry, might differ. Proportion is nothing more than the relativity of parts and has nothing to do with either symmetry or balance."
please do continue b/c so far I haven't seen any examples that demonstrate you know more than me about bodybuilding.
hahaha, keep deluding yourself into believing the pics lie and the judges were being literal instead of using figurative language. I've already proved Dorian wasn't the largest guy onstage. Now the onus is on you to prove he was otherwise you concede you're wrong. ;)
if you want to prove me wrong, then post a quote from an IFBB judge who disagrees with me. ;)
IFBB Website - History of the Mr. Olympia
"The night (October 25, 2003) was Ronnie's. Whatever doubt people had was dispelled as soon as Ronnie hit the stage. He was in his best shape ever, at 39 years old."
http://www.ifbbpro.com/history-of-the-mr-olympia/4/
Ronnie at the 01 ASC surpassed Dorian's conditioning.
they are the same thing, idiot. Look them up in the dictionary. If you're using the IFBB definitions, then explain how a judge is suppose to tell if the mass of one side is equal to the other. I wonder if you ever stopped to use your brain and think about that for a second.
please do continue b/c so far I haven't seen any examples that demonstrate you know more than me about bodybuilding.
hahaha, keep deluding yourself into believing the pics lie and the judges were being literal instead of using figurative language. I've already proved Dorian wasn't the largest guy onstage. Now the onus is on you to prove he was otherwise you concede you're wrong. ;)
Ok lets be real for a second. First off, Dorian beat Flex and Levrone when they were young. Flex was a newcomer to the Olympia stage and so was Kevin in 92. Now I believe Dorian won in 92 and 93, but had Kevin and Flex been a veteran like a Lee Labrada by 92 and 93 they would have scored alot closer to Dorian than they did(although i dont know the scorecards anyways. Do you have those?) Had Levrone not torn his pec and had Wheeler not been in that car accident, who knows if they wouldve beat Dorian in those middle years.
By 98 and 99 Flex knew he had to win an Olympia, he had all the pressure on him and his ego had exploded. He couldnt take the fact that Ronnie beat him, so he lashed out. Ive read several MD articles where Wheeler gives huge props to Ronnie and says he was the best ever blah blah blah. What happened was emotion in the heat of battle.
Levrone looked his best in 2000 and 2002. Flex looked just as good in 99 as he did in 93. He had more mass in 99, more of a name for himself and more star power in 99. Likewise Levrone was more of a monster and had more star power in 2000 and 2002 than he did against Dorian.
Im pretty fair I think, but Dorian shouldve lost at least 2 mr. Os in my opinion. Ronnie shouldve lost to Cutler and Levrone. Thats my opinion.
And what is Ronnies winning percentage since he won the Mr. O? I believe he lost twice, once at the SOS and once to Cutler that dethroned him. I believe Ronnie won more shows in that timespan that dorian EVER won.
Id still like to see Dorians scorecards...
omg, you're f*cking dumb. hahaha. Here is my exact quote:
"I would encourage ND to enter since he claims he's bigger than me but I know he'll just come up with an excuse to pussy out."
again, who said anything about an internet challenge? All I see is me encouraging you to enter the Mr. Getbig.
translation = I'm afraid to post my pics but I'm too proud to admit that. So I'm gonna pretend I'm above posting pics of myself.
who do you think you're kidding? There's a difference between a friendly competition for prize money and posting pics of yourself to feed your ego. Spare me your bullshit excuses why you're scared to throw up pics. ;)
wondering? haha, no. It took me a sec. to deduce that you're not in shape.
omg, you're f*cking dumb. hahaha. Here is my exact quote:
"I would encourage ND to enter since he claims he's bigger than me but I know he'll just come up with an excuse to pussy out."
again, who said anything about an internet challenge? All I see is me encouraging you to enter the Mr. Getbig. again, who said anything about an internet challenge?
All I see is me encouraging you to enter the Mr. Getbig.
translation = I'm afraid to post my pics but I'm too proud to admit that. So I'm gonna pretend I'm above posting pics of myself.
who do you think you're kidding? There's a difference between a friendly competition for prize money and posting pics of yourself to feed your ego. Spare me your bullshit excuses why you're scared to throw up pics. ;)
wondering? haha, no. It took me a sec. to deduce that you're not in shape.
yeah, ND loves to look at the scorecard in 98 without looking at the actual contest. ::)
this is not 'barely' beating flex.
he is destroying him:
thats what bodybuilding is to ND: nothing but scorecards and often incorrect quotes. the actual physiques don't matter to him.. ::)
I have the fuggin contest and watched it many times , Ronnie was a deserving winner and I'm glad he won and didn't give it to Flex on name alone , but make no mistake 98 was close ;)Thats correct ND Ronnie was a Deserving winner in 1998 his Shape, size and condationing was excellent in 1998 espeacally his back/glute/and tie ins was exceptional in that year the scorecards agree with your veiw on the contest being close with Ronnie and Flex...very close.
ah well, I'm off to the gym. I'll let ND and Mr.1derful continue posting in my absence. Who knows... maybe I'll compete in the next Mr. Getbig. I've put on a lot of size and worked on my weaknesses since MG2. I would encourage ND to enter since he claims he's bigger than me but I know he'll just come up with an excuse to pussy out. ;)
Thats correct ND Ronnie was a Deserving winner in 1998 his Shape, size and condationing was excellent in 1998 espeacally his back/glute/and tie ins was exceptional in that year the scorecards agree with your veiw on the contest being close with Ronnie and Flex...very close.
ronnie lost more than once against jay, 2 olympias and few GPs..
Now this is the very thing thats difficult for people in general to grasp in that a older more mature bb is a "better one" as in a 1999 Flex wheeler was "as good" or "better" than a 1993 Flex because he was older, had more mass, his muscles were more "rounder" mature etc, in 1993 the smaller version of flex was very compete in terms of shape, seperation, his actual muscalurity at the time was very very good, posing etc etc...the 1999 version was bigger...........thats it with very suspect site injections of oil etc, his hams, glutes etc were alot less seperated etc, a bigger, older, version of a BB is not in alot of cases a better one IMO
pick a year for the best physique ever
01 ASC
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Ronnie%20Coleman/01%20ASC/2001ASC-RonnieColeman14.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Ronnie%20Coleman/01%20ASC/2001ASC-RonnieColeman47.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Ronnie%20Coleman/01%20ASC/2001ASC-Ronnie138.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Ronnie%20Coleman/01%20ASC/2001ASC-RonnieColeman33.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Ronnie%20Coleman/01%20ASC/2001ASC-Ronnie82.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Ronnie%20Coleman/01%20ASC/2001ASC-Ronnie84.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Ronnie%20Coleman/01%20ASC/2001ASC-Ronnie141ac.jpg)
yeah, ND loves to look at the scorecard in 98 without looking at the actual contest. ::)
this is not 'barely' beating flex.
he is destroying him:
thats what bodybuilding is to ND: nothing but scorecards and often incorrect quotes. the actual physiques don't matter to him.. ::)
Pics mean NOTHING! Flex looked WAY better in person than he does in that pic. I WAS AT THAT SHOW. It was close and if Flex won nobody would have complained. Keep living on pics. They do not show things the way they really are as I guratee that all pics get altered in some way or another before they hit any magazine or website. This altering may make one guy look better and another not so much.
2001 was just stella I mean outstanding this would be his best shot of beating Yates because 98 he had gyno and 99 he wasn't as hard or as dry and 03
notice the absence of the deep quad cuts that ronnie 99 had that ronnie 98 lacked..
gee, I wonder why..lol
LOL you just as naive as ND! as hard as that is to believe.. :-\
newsflash #2: when someone shows up softer for a contest than a previous showing, its always immediately evident in every pic, every video..
in this case, all the pics and vids show the exact opposite of McGoughs incorrect assessment..
ps ronnie agrees too - he said he was in better shape than 98 at his 99 victory seminar..
since you and the head bitch seem to love quotes so much..
::)
yeah.
it just goes to show you these nuthuggers are just as clueless at the event as they are online.
I guess if you don't know the sport, you don't know the sport. period.
newsflash: everyone else who was at the show said Ronnie crushed flex.
hope this helps.
::)
ps ronnie agrees too - he said he was in better shape than 98 at his 99 victory seminar..
since you and the head bitch seem to love quotes so much..
::)
Yeah, but Ronnie's opinion doesn't count for sh*t, remember? ::)
That's was in 1999 right after the contest everyone says they're at their best , that statement been amended many times already
hahahahaha here we go trying to speak for ' everyone ' and rewrite history a deserving winner no doubts in a close contest
and Shawn Ray didn't get the memo
Ronnie Coleman was the most improved bodybuilder , and they should have an award for that but it SHOULDN'T be the overall title. Ronnie Coleman won the Mr Olympia for making the most improvement.
Ronnie does NOT have the complete physique. He has a certain degree of shape and detail but , let's be honest , he has a lot of weaknesses : calves , hamstrings , midsection. He has flaws on his physique that you just can't find on my physique or Flex Wheeler's physique. On side note, Ronnie's penchant for making a spectacle of himself was totally off putting. Year after year, he did this, which in my view became very disrespectful towards the second place winner. Once ok, but repeatedly? That's just being an attention whore.
Did they even count the posing routine? Ronnie Coleman is never going to be remembered for a posing routine.
of course not. he was a rookie in 93, and in 98/99 he was expected to win the O.
he failed miserably and he freaked out.
Flex has often stated in MD that Ronnie is the best bb ever, the best Mr. O ever, and unbeatable at his best.
as flex found out the hard way in 1999...
remember being in shock when Ronnie entered the stage for the first time and I don't think I was the only one. What an improvement he had made in a year. I bet Dorian was thinking, "It's a good thing I retired before this year's competition."
now your finally getting it.
you morons cant seem to figure out that quotes mean nothing, especially when they are not only contradicted by other quotes, they are contradicted by real life visuals.
thank you.
now you might realize that talk is bullshit unless it is corroborated by the pics and videos.
as Ronnie 99>98 certainly IS.
your right. he was far above that level.
from bb.com 98 Olympia report:
you morons play the quotes game and it can bite you in the ass.
Is that the same BB.com that said Ronnie lost the 2002 Olympia? Do you accept their word as the gospel, then? What was that about quotes biting someone in the ass? ::)
your still not getting it ::)
all the quotes I support are corroborated by visual evidence.
I don't blindly support quotes that are disproven by everything like you both do..
because they are nothing but bullshit, as the evidence shows quite clearly..
::)
yeah.
it just goes to show you these nuthuggers are just as clueless at the event as they are online.
I guess if you don't know the sport, you don't know the sport. period.
newsflash: everyone else who was at the show said Ronnie crushed flex.
hope this helps.
::)
real life visuals led you to the conclusion Dorian lost the 1993 Olympia LMFAO and Ronnie has more detailed calves than Dorian and Ronnie was grainier than Dorian , and Dennis Wolf is blocky , and Dorian lost every single one of his Olympia titles , you're an idiot who knows NOTHING you see what you want
Joe Weider - IFBB Co-Founder
"Many experts, including reigning Mr.Olympia, Jay Cutler, believe that at his best Ronnie has the greatest physique of all-time. When looking at pictures of Ronnie from the 1998 Mr.Olympia, I find it hard to argue with that."
where is 1999?
Raymond Cassar - Muscletime Editor and Photographer
"There is no one alive that can beat Ronnie Coleman when he is at his best - No One! (and his best for me was when he won the 2001 Arnold Classic)"
where is 1999?
Team Flex - http://www.flexonline.com/training/49
"We've said before that the 245 pounds or so physique with which [Ronnie Coleman] won the 2001 Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic is the best ever - unbeatable."
Where is 1999?
Flex Magazine March 2009
Tales from Columbus
2001 (2): Is Chris Cormier unlucky? Are Bob Cicherillo's threads so loud that he's being sponsored by a megaphone company? At the 2001 Arnold Classic, for the only time in its history, the reigning Mr. Olympia entered the contest. Not only that, but said Mr. Olympia, Ronnie Coleman, was in the best shape of his career, before or since. Now that is bad luck.
Where is 1999?
Flex Magazine March 2008
2001 Then-reigning Mr. Olympia Ronnie Coleman, in the shape of his life at 245 pounds, took this one, with Cormier gaining the second of his six consecutive runner-up positions.
Where is 1999?
Q ] There are those who feel you were at your best when you competed lighter, which for you was in the low 270's, and those who say you were best in the 290's. Was there a particular look you presented that you preferred over the others?
dot
Number one. That one was incredible to me. It (Ronnie's first Olympia win in 1998) always will be and nothing will ever take the place of that one. Everything was just spot on for that show. I had to overcome so much to win that one too.
Where is 1999?
Flex Magazine August 2003
Jim Schmatltz on Ronnie chances of winning six Olympias in a row
if he repeats his 2001 Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic form, he'll experience the joy of six.
Where is 1999?
Shawn Perine Ironage Dec 11, 2004
As much as I love Haney and my IA champs, I think Ronnie circa '98 or at the 2001 Arnold is pretty much untouchable. Except by Dorian Yates 6 weeks out from the '93 O as photographed by our own KMH. Both men, on those specific occasions carried so much dry muscle mass in good proportion and with good lines that it's almost unfair to compare them to others.
Where is 1999?
While I’m on record as saying that the best physique I ever saw was Ronnie’s at the 2001 Arnold, he was never drier or harder than Dorian.
Where is 1999?
review of mr. olympia 1999, january 2000, page 90:
257 pounds, a good seven pounds heavier than last year and the clear winner, ALTHOUGH NOT AS BONE DRY OR AS ROCK HARD IN 98. In comparison to 98, his thighs are enourmous with a greater sweep and his front delts have improved; plus the pec anomaly (gyno) is no longer present.
Where is 1999?
Quote Peter McGough Flex Magazine Jan 2001
RONNIE COLEMAN : ( 264lbs As big as a house , but holding water. In '98 , he was shredded and bone dry at 250 pounds. Last year ( 1999 ) he was 257 pounds but NOT as sharp as '98. This year ( 2000 ) at 264 pounds , he's not as sharp as 99 , which would seem to say that Ronnie is better at a lighter weight .
Where is 1999?
Peter McGough Flex Magazine August 2005
Personally, the best physique I ever saw onstage (there was a contender for best-ever that I saw offstage: those crazy photos of sock-footed Dorian Yates taken seven weeks before the 1993 Mr. Olympia) was Ronnie's at the 2001 Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic
Where is 1999?
NO ONE feels 1999 is his best except ignorant fan-boys the experts and Ronnie HIMSELF have spoken shut the fuck up with 1999 already . strop trying to rewrite history fan-boy
your right. he was far above that level.
from bb.com 98 Olympia report:
you morons play the quotes game and it can bite you in the ass.
Give it up dude. Quotes only matter to him when they agree with him. He'll never get it.
now your finally getting it.
you morons cant seem to figure out that quotes mean nothing, especially when they are not only contradicted by other quotes, they are contradicted by real life visuals.
thank you.
now you might realize that talk is bullshit unless it is corroborated by the pics and videos.
as Ronnie 99>98 certainly IS.
Really? You spoke to EVERYONE there? Amazing really. I guarantee you 90% of the people there didn't think Ronnie crushed Flex. You are such a clueless schmoe. No one is saying Ronnie didn't deserve to win but he didn't crush Flex. Why is it that you have to make your love interest out to be this all out dominating force of nature when in reality he's just a great bodybuilder who managed to win 8 Mr O's (and got lucky on a few). Give it up man. Most people know 98 was close and Ronnie winning was fine with everyone.
Give it up dude. Quotes only matter to him when they agree with him. He'll never get it.
wrong. I agree with quotes thatare corroborated by real proofsuit my biased agenda. proven by nothing.
something other more intelligent posters know already.
::)
wrong. I agree with quotes that are corroborated by real proof. not disproven by everything.
something you morons need to learn to do.
::)
Real proof would be at the show live and in person not vids and pics schmoe. Hell I'd even give you more credibility if you admit seeing Ronnie in person during a g4p posing session that you dream of.
Real proof would be at the show live and in person not vids and pics schmoe.
bullshit.
a good video is better than sitting in the 64th row.
other getbiggers who have been at contests have verified as such.
eg:
Re: Ronnie Coleman Posing - 2001 Arnold Classic - best ever
« Reply #91 on: July 14, 2009, 11:03:50 PM » Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The reason people liked ronnie's 01 form was because he had a slight layer of water (hear me out), and when he posed/flexed, amazing things happened. It was like night and day between relaxed and flexed, so it had a very dramatic effect. that's what lead people ot think so highly of his 01 form. Only a guy of ronnie's ability could make being off (relatively speaking) seem like such a cool effect, but that is the reality of it. Just watch that video. it is quite plain to see that ronnie goes from smooth to striated when flexing. very neat to watch, but not as sharp as he had previously been. 99 0 was his best, its not that hard to see. I've been to a few pro shows in my day, pics don't lie that much.... and not at all when it comes to conditioning. Pics only lie when it comes to dimension (which is why the nasser lovers don't get why dorian and ronnie destroyed him from a judging criteria... i'll admit nassers aesthetics in certain poses are impressive, but there's more to judging than aesthetics), but certainly not when it comes to conditioning.
Anyone who thinks hulksters videos are sharpened needs to check out the dvd, there's nothing altered about them at all. the only thing unnatural about that video is how peeled ronnie is.
read and weep nuthuggers! :P
+
Moron who is sitting on the 64th row? every guy who said Ronnie was better was near the stage and Peter McGough was on the fucking stage
I ask for experts and you post ONE fucking member ??? this is supposed to trump every paid expert who was feet away? LMFAO you did a massive ass search for this bullshit? lmfao
eyewitnesses DON'T MATTER experts DON'T MATTER but one fucking audience member is now supposed to matter? kid you're beyond retarded
give it up NO ONE feels 1999 is his best NO ONE that matters at least
+
Huckster tracked down one of the janitors that were on duty at the shows and in between replacing urinal pucks, from what the janitor could see, 1999 was better than 1998. There you have it. Peter McGough and the others be damned.
bullshit.
a good video is better than sitting in the 64th row.
other getbiggers who have been at contests have verified as such.
eg:
Re: Ronnie Coleman Posing - 2001 Arnold Classic - best ever
« Reply #91 on: July 14, 2009, 11:03:50 PM » Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The reason people liked ronnie's 01 form was because he had a slight layer of water (hear me out), and when he posed/flexed, amazing things happened. It was like night and day between relaxed and flexed, so it had a very dramatic effect. that's what lead people ot think so highly of his 01 form. Only a guy of ronnie's ability could make being off (relatively speaking) seem like such a cool effect, but that is the reality of it. Just watch that video. it is quite plain to see that ronnie goes from smooth to striated when flexing. very neat to watch, but not as sharp as he had previously been. 99 0 was his best, its not that hard to see. I've been to a few pro shows in my day, pics don't lie that much.... and not at all when it comes to conditioning. Pics only lie when it comes to dimension (which is why the nasser lovers don't get why dorian and ronnie destroyed him from a judging criteria... i'll admit nassers aesthetics in certain poses are impressive, but there's more to judging than aesthetics), but certainly not when it comes to conditioning.
Anyone who thinks hulksters videos are sharpened needs to check out the dvd, there's nothing altered about them at all. the only thing unnatural about that video is how peeled ronnie is.
read and weep nuthuggers! :P
+lmfao A guy in the parking lot said hahahahahaha who cares what the guy onstage says I seen pics and someone on a messageboard said he was there and the guy with 40 years experience who was talking to the man backstage is wrong ;D
Huckster tracked down one of the janitors that were on duty at the shows and in between replacing urinal pucks, from what the janitor could see, 1999 was better than 1998. There you have it. Peter McGough and the others be damned.
LOL what pictures and videos?
they all show 99 being BETTER
thats why you three have to have all these excuses..like you always have to..
::)
cue ND and bitches excuse #30987503249583049876035:
enjoy: ::)
99>98
99> 01AC
as ALWAYS:
and the black and white, look at the droopy gyno nipples pointing down, oversize quads with mediocre separation and tiny calves like an elephant on stilts.
the black and white is from 98.
like I said ronnie 99> 98
but ND and bitches are in complete and utter denial.. ::)
the black and white is from 98.
like I said ronnie 99> 98
but ND and bitches are in complete and utter denial.. ::)
I guess Ronnie didn't get the memo ;D
Ronnie says 1998 was his best see denial you know the way
Cormier and Flex both look better there
;D
Sheesh cmon we've learned that Ronnies opinion means NOTHING ::) You know I felt so much better today than I did yesterday. But you know what I'm wrong cuz my wife said she thought I felt better yesterday than today and we all know that our own opinion means way less than that of others so I guess she's right ;D
who cares what ronnie says.You have got to be kidding me....."who cares what Ronnie says"!?!?!? Wow, where to even start. The delusional one as advanced to yet another level.
he can be just as wrong as anyone else.
if the pics and vids show his 99 form was his best, then it was his best.
his opinion doesn't change that. period.
who cares what ronnie says.
he can be just as wrong as anyone else.
if the pics and vids show his 99 form was his best, then it was his best.
his opinion doesn't change that. period.
who cares what ronnie says.
he can be just as wrong as anyone else.
if the pics and vids show his 99 form was his best, then it was his best.
his opinion doesn't change that. period.
real life visuals led you to the conclusion Dorian lost the 1993 Olympia LMFAO and Ronnie has more detailed calves than Dorian and Ronnie was grainier than Dorian , and Dennis Wolf is blocky , and Dorian lost every single one of his Olympia titles , you're an idiot who knows NOTHING you see what you want
Joe Weider - IFBB Co-Founder
"Many experts, including reigning Mr.Olympia, Jay Cutler, believe that at his best Ronnie has the greatest physique of all-time. When looking at pictures of Ronnie from the 1998 Mr.Olympia, I find it hard to argue with that."
where is 1999?
Raymond Cassar - Muscletime Editor and Photographer
"There is no one alive that can beat Ronnie Coleman when he is at his best - No One! (and his best for me was when he won the 2001 Arnold Classic)"
where is 1999?
Team Flex - http://www.flexonline.com/training/49
"We've said before that the 245 pounds or so physique with which [Ronnie Coleman] won the 2001 Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic is the best ever - unbeatable."
Where is 1999?
Flex Magazine March 2009
Tales from Columbus
2001 (2): Is Chris Cormier unlucky? Are Bob Cicherillo's threads so loud that he's being sponsored by a megaphone company? At the 2001 Arnold Classic, for the only time in its history, the reigning Mr. Olympia entered the contest. Not only that, but said Mr. Olympia, Ronnie Coleman, was in the best shape of his career, before or since. Now that is bad luck.
Where is 1999?
Flex Magazine March 2008
2001 Then-reigning Mr. Olympia Ronnie Coleman, in the shape of his life at 245 pounds, took this one, with Cormier gaining the second of his six consecutive runner-up positions.
Where is 1999?
Q ] There are those who feel you were at your best when you competed lighter, which for you was in the low 270's, and those who say you were best in the 290's. Was there a particular look you presented that you preferred over the others?
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Number one. That one was incredible to me. It (Ronnie's first Olympia win in 1998) always will be and nothing will ever take the place of that one. Everything was just spot on for that show. I had to overcome so much to win that one too.
Where is 1999?
Flex Magazine August 2003
Jim Schmatltz on Ronnie chances of winning six Olympias in a row
if he repeats his 2001 Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic form, he'll experience the joy of six.
Where is 1999?
Shawn Perine Ironage Dec 11, 2004
As much as I love Haney and my IA champs, I think Ronnie circa '98 or at the 2001 Arnold is pretty much untouchable. Except by Dorian Yates 6 weeks out from the '93 O as photographed by our own KMH. Both men, on those specific occasions carried so much dry muscle mass in good proportion and with good lines that it's almost unfair to compare them to others.
Where is 1999?
While I’m on record as saying that the best physique I ever saw was Ronnie’s at the 2001 Arnold, he was never drier or harder than Dorian.
Where is 1999?
review of mr. olympia 1999, january 2000, page 90:
257 pounds, a good seven pounds heavier than last year and the clear winner, ALTHOUGH NOT AS BONE DRY OR AS ROCK HARD IN 98. In comparison to 98, his thighs are enourmous with a greater sweep and his front delts have improved; plus the pec anomaly (gyno) is no longer present.
Where is 1999?
Quote Peter McGough Flex Magazine Jan 2001
RONNIE COLEMAN : ( 264lbs As big as a house , but holding water. In '98 , he was shredded and bone dry at 250 pounds. Last year ( 1999 ) he was 257 pounds but NOT as sharp as '98. This year ( 2000 ) at 264 pounds , he's not as sharp as 99 , which would seem to say that Ronnie is better at a lighter weight .
Where is 1999?
Peter McGough Flex Magazine August 2005
Personally, the best physique I ever saw onstage (there was a contender for best-ever that I saw offstage: those crazy photos of sock-footed Dorian Yates taken seven weeks before the 1993 Mr. Olympia) was Ronnie's at the 2001 Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic
Where is 1999?
NO ONE feels 1999 is his best except ignorant fan-boys the experts and Ronnie HIMSELF have spoken shut the fuck up with 1999 already . strop trying to rewrite history fan-boy
So you're posting a bunch of quotes from experts saying that Ronnie at his best was the best of all time, doesn't that counter your argument for years and tens of thousands of posts that Dorian was better than Ronnie? Okay, so you're pasting these quotes in an effort to argue against Hulkster that Ronnie's best was 98 not 99, but the quotes are still saying that he beats your idol. ???
You do, but only when it coincides with your biased agenda.
who cares what ronnie says.
he can be just as wrong as anyone else.
if the pics and vids show his 99 form was his best, then it was his best.
his opinion doesn't change that. period.
How old are you, twelve? ::)
nope. just calling what I see.
you guys follow each others posts like love birds, sometimes with no one else posting in between..just a loving series of back and fourth posts between you two..
its pathetic, really.
So, another yates vs ronnie thread. Yates winswhy are you bumping 7 year old threads?
why are you bumping 7 year old threads?
Doesn't look too shabby...minus the gyno of course.nah c'mon dude....
(http://www.musculardevelopment.com/photos/transferred/QW5Q3258_OBHJPMMYZR.jpg)
who cares what ronnie says."Be my little baby"...?
the pic of dorian at 282 is not contraversial because its better than ronnie.
its contraversial because dorian never had quads/hips like that in his entire life, at any bodyweight, contest, precontest or offseason. and there are tons of pics of him at all these instances and he never had a quad flare like that.
it would be like someone posting a never before seen shot of Ronnie Coleman with Shawn Ray's abs..everyone would be reacting the same way..saying the same things that they are about the new dorian pic..
(http://flashrob.com/ta/FLatBig.jpg)