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Title: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on January 07, 2008, 08:15:37 AM
As you may know, many employers now do credit checks on employees and have even declined to offer or rescinded job offers for people with bad credit scores.  The rationale being a particularly bad credit score is indicative of many other potential problems especially with regard to judgment.

Do you know your own credit score?

Would you date someone with bad credit or break up with someone once you learned s/he had bad credit?

It has been argued that knowing someone’s approximate credit score is more important than knowing someone’s HIV status.



Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: FLEX N FREAK on January 07, 2008, 08:24:43 AM
hope that is not the case, cause if if it im in trouble :o


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on January 07, 2008, 08:35:06 AM
hope that is not the case, cause if if it im in trouble :o

 :-[



Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: powerpack on January 07, 2008, 09:03:27 AM
Play around but not seriously date.
I have seen enough of my buddies lives ruined by partners who cant control their spending and who have no conscious over out of control credit.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: gtbro1 on January 07, 2008, 09:11:23 AM
that's ridiculous. I see your point somewhat...but often times people's credit gets messed up from events out of their control. Like when the factory I worked at for 12 years shut down...Many people lost jobs and were forced to start over somewhere else for less pay. I think it just depends on the situation.Sometimes bad things happen to good people.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on January 07, 2008, 09:34:00 AM
that's ridiculous. I see your point somewhat...but often times people's credit gets messed up from events out of their control. Like when the factory I worked at for 12 years shut down...Many people lost jobs and were forced to start over somewhere else for less pay. I think it just depends on the situation.Sometimes bad things happen to good people.

Sometimes that is true, but having and maintaining a good credit score means positioning yourself to preserve that score even when bad things happen.  Fired, laid off, illness, and accidents can happen to any of us, but people with good scores, for the most part, do not let those things compromise their credit.  They meet their financial obligations—no matter what! 

That is why a good score is so highly prized and respected.  It says something about the person that is very worth knowing. 

It is an unfortunate one, but a factory going out of business is not an unpredictable event.  Someone with a good score would be prepared for it either with accrued savings, reduced liabilities or some combination thereof.

A few years ago, a friend of mine had his car repossessed following a period of unemployment and missed car payments.  To this day, he still says it was not his fault and he blames Toyota for taking back the car even though he failed to make payments for several months.  He is working now and has another car, but he has vowed never to buy another Toyota product because he still blames the company rather than himself for the resposession.  Big surprise, his credit score is, shall we say, below 800 (and that’s putting it mildly).

Have you ever noticed that people with bad credit scores are very good at generating excuses and explanations?
 ::)


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: FLEX N FREAK on January 07, 2008, 07:19:34 PM
so bay, are you telling us your credit score is above a 725 ? ;D


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on January 08, 2008, 01:39:02 PM
so bay, are you telling us your credit score is above a 725 ? ;D

No.  I’m not making a comment about my score one way or another.  I’m simply throwing a question out there to bat around… much like the thread on would you date someone who is HIV+ or another thread someone started on would you date a fat person.


i think you should not be so single minded on this topic at all and its pretty fucking shallow

It’s funny to hear someone on a bodybuilding board accuse someone else of being shallow.  I suppose this subject hits a nerve; there are a lot of people out there with bad credit.

Personally or professionally, no one wants to be screened out of the "eligibility pool" but eventually it happens to all of us and often it happens over issues that are far less consequential: age, height, body fat, hair color, bald, breast size, education, etc.  To me, it seems more shallow to screen someone out based on something they have no control over (bald, breast size, age, height, etc.) rather than something they can control like a poor credit rating.

For what it's worth, I tend to agree with powerpack.  But socially speaking there's no reason for people with bad credit to be upset... there are plenty of them and they can certainly date each other.  :)

As for being screened out by a potential employer... well, that's another, more serious, problem.  I have been on search committees and we have obtained the credit scores for finalists.  People with bad scores are sometimes eliminated from further consideration. :-\




Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: FLEX N FREAK on January 08, 2008, 02:01:44 PM
so what is your credit score ? someone who would start a thread like this , you would think would have a high credit score, and like to brag about it, lol ;D


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: Captain Equipoise on January 09, 2008, 12:50:32 AM
I think the better question would be: would you date a dead beat that is consistently 'in-between' jobs.. I know a lot of girls like this and I won't go near them no matter how hot.. these are the girls that work for 4 weeks out of the year at a tanning salon , LOL.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: Tombo on January 10, 2008, 06:15:07 PM
No.  I’m not making a comment about my score one way or another.  I’m simply throwing a question out there to bat around… much like the thread on would you date someone who is HIV+ or another thread someone started on would you date a fat person.


It’s funny to hear someone on a bodybuilding board accuse someone else of being shallow.  I suppose this subject hits a nerve; there are a lot of people out there with bad credit.

Personally or professionally, no one wants to be screened out of the "eligibility pool" but eventually it happens to all of us and often it happens over issues that are far less consequential: age, height, body fat, hair color, bald, breast size, education, etc.  To me, it seems more shallow to screen someone out based on something they have no control over (bald, breast size, age, height, etc.) rather than something they can control like a poor credit rating.

For what it's worth, I tend to agree with powerpack.  But socially speaking there's no reason for people with bad credit to be upset... there are plenty of them and they can certainly date each other.  :)

As for being screened out by a potential employer... well, that's another, more serious, problem.  I have been on search committees and we have obtained the credit scores for finalists.  People with bad scores are sometimes eliminated from further consideration. :-\




well i've never borrowed money in my life or had any bad dealings with a bank so mine is fine, but i honestly think that treating a potential partner as a financial investment is one of the dumbest things i've ever heard and openly saying that to 9/10 people would just leave you on the sidewalk, fair enough you don't want to be some bum, but it doesn't take a credit check to see if someone is financially sound or a homeless bum you know what i mean.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: Victor VonDoom on January 18, 2008, 08:04:37 AM
As you may know, many employers now do credit checks on employees and have even declined to offer or rescinded job offers for people with bad credit scores.  The rationale being a particularly bad credit score is indicative of many other potential problems especially with regard to judgment.

Do you know your own credit score?

Would you date someone with bad credit or break up with someone once you learned s/he had bad credit?

No.  Bah!


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on February 23, 2008, 08:47:36 AM
well i've never borrowed money in my life or had any bad dealings with a bank so mine is fine, but i honestly think that treating a potential partner as a financial investment is one of the dumbest things i've ever heard and openly saying that to 9/10 people would just leave you on the sidewalk, fair enough you don't want to be some bum, but it doesn't take a credit check to see if someone is financially sound or a homeless bum you know what i mean.

You may feel that way, but i don't think 9/10 people would agree with you.  Especially people who are not involved in bodybuilding (a sport which focuses on the superficial).


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: Thin Lizzy on February 25, 2008, 08:55:49 AM
No.  I’m not making a comment about my score one way or another.  I’m simply throwing a question out there to bat around… much like the thread on would you date someone who is HIV+ or another thread someone started on would you date a fat person.


It’s funny to hear someone on a bodybuilding board accuse someone else of being shallow.  I suppose this subject hits a nerve; there are a lot of people out there with bad credit.

Personally or professionally, no one wants to be screened out of the "eligibility pool" but eventually it happens to all of us and often it happens over issues that are far less consequential: age, height, body fat, hair color, bald, breast size, education, etc.  To me, it seems more shallow to screen someone out based on something they have no control over (bald, breast size, age, height, etc.) rather than something they can control like a poor credit rating.

For what it's worth, I tend to agree with powerpack.  But socially speaking there's no reason for people with bad credit to be upset... there are plenty of them and they can certainly date each other.  :)

As for being screened out by a potential employer... well, that's another, more serious, problem.  I have been on search committees and we have obtained the credit scores for finalists.  People with bad scores are sometimes eliminated from further consideration. :-\




Credit scores were the primary determining factor for giving out sub-prime loans. How'd that work out?

Going forward, I think you're going to see your beloved credit scores not meaning squat.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: parsnip1965 on April 21, 2008, 02:23:51 PM
It has been argued that knowing someone’s approximate credit score is more important than knowing someone’s HIV status.

It has been argued incorrectly.  The cure for a bad credit score has been discovered.  I once had this disease, now I'm 100% cured.

Wish I could say the same about HIV. 


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: drkaje on April 21, 2008, 02:44:11 PM
Hell no to dating a fat person!!!

Some insurance comanied even calculate credit scores into your rate.

Assuming it's a serious question it would depend on how hot she is and why I would care. I don't need a girl to co-sign shit so it would never come up. That being said, some do feel it is a measure of how organized a person's life is. Don't know if that theory really holds water... some people have bad luck and very few people (my ass included) have any financial training whatsoever. People from more structured backgrounds appreciate credit's power better. Me, I'd still prefer to have cash. :)


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: thepeg on April 22, 2008, 03:18:49 AM
what does a bad credit score got 2 do with pussy?


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: drkaje on April 22, 2008, 04:40:08 AM
what does a bad credit score got 2 do with pussy?

There must be some credit scams in the gay community, LOL!

But since he wrote seriously date.... if you end up marrying someone with bad credit/financial management practices, their problems become yours.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BDG on April 22, 2008, 05:17:50 AM
Play around but not seriously date.
I have seen enough of my buddies lives ruined by partners who cant control their spending and who have no conscious over out of control credit.

When I was in my 20's I could have cared less. Honestly.

But if I had to date again, and if I found out that my woman had a horrific credit score, I would RUN.  Honestly, RUN.
Pussy is fine and all, but when you get serious with a woman, and you find out that she can not control her spending, and if you 2 were to get married, it would be the source of constant arguments.

MOST marital arguments stem from money issues.  If one partner can not control her spending, or pay her bills on time, trust me, it will become an issue fast.  I know some friends who have been married for yeard and JUST realized that their wifes have over 10k-15k on a credit card they didn't know about.  he honestly thought he was debt free, and had to take a large portion of his bonus to pay her credit cards off.  (I guarantee she all ready has them run back up.  It is a control issue, and I am sure she has none).



Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: drkaje on April 22, 2008, 10:00:03 AM
Severe addicts will get credit in the names of others.... even their children!!!


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on June 24, 2008, 06:39:37 AM
How Bad Credit Can Affect Job Prospects
Many Employers Use Credit History as a Tool in Their Pre-Employment Screening
By TORY JOHNSON
June 24, 2008—

We all know that our personal credit history affects our ability to secure a home loan or open an account at a department store. But most Americans are unaware that bad credit could cost them a job.

Many employers use credit history as a tool in their pre-employment screening as just one measure of judgment and character. If you can't manage your financial obligations, they wonder if it's a sign of irresponsibility. If your monthly debt payment is higher than your salary, some employers worry that it may distract from your performance.

Critics of this practice say it's unfair for personal credit history to be used when judging professional qualifications. They say there's no link between poor credit and job performance. Many of these people have hit rough patches, and now they're caught in a vicious cycle: To pay down their debt, they need a job, but they can't get hired because of their debt.

The majority of employers today use some form of background check as part of their due diligence not because they're interested in prying or playing gotcha. By the time they move forward with a background check, they've decided they want you. So whether it's verifying your education and work history, a drug test, checking your criminal history or even your credit, they're genuinely hoping that everything checks out.

When it comes to credit history specifically the amount of debt and the number of delinquencies and negative accounts  some positions will have firm standards in black and white. If your credit is weak, you can expect a red flag, which might include losing the offer , if your role requires you to be involved in finances  a cashier, payroll manager, financial planner or senior financial executive, for example.

The same applies if you're handling expensive jewelry or other small valuables, if you have access to trade secrets or if you're a key holder, someone who opens and closes a store and has access to cash and merchandise. Almost always in those cases, you can expect a credit check. But it's by no means limited solely to those areas; employers use their own discretion when deciding which positions to screen.

Beyond that, if you're in a position that involves high security or access to cash and valuables, you may be subject to recurring background checks while on the job. Ask your employer directly about its policies.

Read the fine print. Under federal law, prospective employees must give permission for employers to conduct background checks, including credit checks, so none of this happens behind our backs.

Yet some 80 percent of Americans, according to a Visa survey, don't realize that credit history can be used in pre-employment screening. Whenever you sign an employment application, read the fine print. Most of the time, you're signing a consent and disclosure clause that grants your permission to the employer and its designated third party vendor(s) to conduct a background check. Be aware of what exactly you're agreeing to upfront.

Bad credit, now what? If you have poor credit, it doesn't automatically mean you're unemployable. You should focus on three steps so you don't lose out on positions.

Check your credit report. Even if you're not actively job searching, everyone should know what's in their credit report. Under federal law, you have the right to receive a free copy of your credit report once every 12 months from each of the three nationwide consumer reporting companies. (Visit www.annualcreditreport.c om to access those reports.) Don't bury your head; if you have problems with your credit or you find mistakes on the report, address them immediately with creditors and the reporting company. This will come in very handy should you find yourself looking for work.

Ask the employer's policy. Then when it comes to job searching, avoid voluntarily discussing credit history during the interview process. There's no need to knock yourself out of the running prematurely. When you receive an offer that's contingent on a background check, ask directly, "I'm thrilled at the prospect of working here. What is your policy on background checks? I'd like to know what specific screenings you use and the general timeframe for that process." At this point, they've said they want you, so you're in a good position to ask such a question with relative ease. Most employers will gladly walk you through their process.

Speak up with confidence. If an employer says the background screening includes a credit check  and you've seen the negative activity on your credit report  then you should consider speaking up. You can say, "I'd like to tell you what in advance you're likely to find on my personal credit report. Please allow me the opportunity to explain it, too." It's important to have a solid rationale. Maybe you hit a challenge because of an unexpected layoff, a divorce, a medical necessity, or a problem with your mortgage. Maybe there are mistakes on your report that you're working to fix.

Talking about personal credit can be embarrassing and difficult for anyone you're not alone so at this moment it's essential to have a clear, confident explanation that you've rehearsed. You don't want to babble or look like a deer in the headlights. Speaking up at the right moment can make or break the job opportunity.

Additional resources: ChoicePoint (www.choicepoint.com) and Sterling Testing Systems (www.sterlingtesting.com) are two of the services used frequently by employers to conduct background checks. Visit their sites to educate yourself on the pre-employment screening process used by employers and for information on facts and services available to individuals.

Copyright © 2008 ABC News Internet Ventures

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=5229894&page=1


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: onlyme on June 24, 2008, 07:33:46 AM
Who needs credit when you have cash.  Plus believe me no one will turn down a 50%+ deposit on anything. 


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: drkaje on June 24, 2008, 09:11:42 AM
Only,

Most people confuse credit with income. :)

A friend (financial advisor) of mine loves to tell people: credit is just debt you don't have yet.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on June 24, 2008, 10:42:28 AM
If one is independently wealthy then this subject (like so many others) would not apply to you.  Most people however depend on credit and therefore need a good credit rating.  The sooner young people learn that the better off they will be.  :)

Some things are particularly difficult to buy without a credit card though in those cases a debit card will usually suffice.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: drkaje on June 24, 2008, 10:46:38 AM
Living within your means is the best way of sticking it to the man.

Don't go there Bay, LOL! It's a figure of speech.  :)


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: candidizzle on June 25, 2008, 03:30:33 PM
hahahahahahah

what a question




Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: parsnip1965 on July 29, 2008, 03:18:35 PM
It has been argued incorrectly.  The cure for a bad credit score has been discovered.  I once had this disease, now I'm 100% cured.

Wish I could say the same about HIV. 

I didn't mean to say that I wish I had HIV or wish I was cured.  I just wish there was a cure.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on July 29, 2008, 06:17:59 PM
I didn't mean to say that I wish I had HIV or wish I was cured.  I just wish there was a cure.

Thanks for clearing that up.  :D


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: drkaje on August 01, 2008, 08:54:01 AM
Creditboards.com is a good place to find out about credit repair.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on August 04, 2008, 07:02:47 AM
Creditboards.com is a good place to find out about credit repair.

Methinks some people here need make use of that.  ::)


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on December 08, 2008, 02:33:31 PM
Credit scores get analyzed more than ever
Kevin Cochrane
Special to The Desert Sun

What started in the markets almost a year ago as a reaction to defaulting sub-prime mortgages and the housing slowdown has evolved into what's being termed a “credit freeze.”

Borrowing by corporations in the commercial paper and bond markets is all but nonexistent, banks aren't willing to lend their excess reserves to other banks via overnight funds and the U.S. Treasury has earmarked more than a third of the $700 billion bailout money to invest in commercial banks to stimulate lending.

But are loans available to consumers that want to purchase automobiles and houses or even just get a credit card?

Yes, certainly there is funding available for qualified borrowers with good credit.

And that's the rub — what's good credit?

Most of us are aware that credit bureaus like Experian, Equifax and Trans-Union receive reports from credit grantors on how we handle our obligations and pay our debts.

That information historically was distilled into a single numerical credit score that lenders use to gauge the risk of extending more credit. If you have a high enough score, you get a loan. It's simple and efficient.

But with the sub-prime meltdown and subsequent rising defaults on everything from car loans to department store charge cards, users of credit reports are starting to look beyond just a single number to analyze their risk.

Yes, a high FICO score still counts for a lot when applying for credit, but the actual details of your credit history are being analyzed with more scrutiny now as well.

Just paying your bills on time, responsibly managing your obligations and having a good credit score may not be enough. Who you pay and what type of credit they gave you is becoming a more important factor used by lenders to predict potential future problems.

‘Conjunctive history'

A leading credit card issuer recently began lowering users' credit limits based on what's known as “conjunctive history.”

For example, if you financed your house with Countrywide Home Loans a few years ago (a major sub-prime lender at the time) and also use your credit card to shop at Wal-Mart, you may find your limit severely curtailed. Those two actions in conjunction have been found to result in a significantly higher default rate by borrowers.

It doesn't matter if your loan was not of the sub-prime variety, you've paid it perfectly for years and you shop at Wal-Mart only to save money for your church bake sales and your daughter's soccer team.

The use of computer technology to slice, dice and recombine specific credit details has resulted in new ways for lenders to statistically evaluate risk. Realize that it's not the single fact of where you got your home loan or where you buy cookies and fresh fruit, but those actions in conjunction with each other that portray a higher credit risk.


 :-\



Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: drkaje on December 08, 2008, 04:40:18 PM
Bay,

Are you familiar with Amex's first purchase model and the insane matrix they are using to judge people's creditworthiness?


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on December 08, 2008, 05:46:59 PM
Bay,

Are you familiar with Amex's first purchase model and the insane matrix they are using to judge people's creditworthiness?

No.  Link?

I’m still amazed at how many people are clueless about their credit score.  I went to a public elementary school that provided a course in financial literacy, but I have come to understand that financial education is very rare in K-12 schooling.

Do you all check your credit report annually?  Do you know your credit score?  Vote here:

http://snappoll.com/poll/303978.php






Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: drkaje on December 08, 2008, 08:42:03 PM
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Banking/YourCreditRating/8SecretCreditScoresThatLendersKeep.aspx

Amex even tracks home prices and foreclosures near where cardmembers live.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on December 09, 2008, 06:48:20 AM
That (and the related articles) was a good read.  I knew that there were other scores used to track consumers but had not seen them enumerated and explicated before.

I'll grab this one the next time I'm in the library.
http://www.amazon.com/Youre-Nothing-but-Number-strategies/dp/1424335124/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-1363661-1728435?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1193682581&sr=8-1




Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on December 21, 2008, 11:08:48 PM
12 secrets your car insurer won't tell you
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Insurance/InsureYourCar/12hiddenWaysToSaveOnAutoInsurance.aspx

If you have good credit, you'll pay less. Almost all auto insurers -- including the top five -- pull your credit report. Why? Studies have shown a direct correlation between your credit score and the likelihood that you will file a claim. Insurers also know that if you pay your bills in a timely fashion and have had the same credit accounts for a long time, you're more stable than someone who pays late and frequently opens and closes accounts. They use this information to create your "insurance risk score," which is one factor that determines your auto-insurance rate.

Tip: Your insurance-risk score is not available to you, but it may be similar to your credit score. If you have unusual credit activity, wait a month for it to return to normal before buying auto insurance. If your credit history is shaky, clean it up as soon as you can.




Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on January 30, 2009, 06:51:17 AM
New model for credit scores, FICO 08, touts sharper analysis
Fair Isaac Corp.'s system penalizes habitually late payments
By Kayce T. Ataiyero
January 30, 2009

The company that operates the nation's major credit scoring system has retooled how it calculates those numbers, allowing lenders to better predict the likelihood of default and penalizing consumers who are chronically late making payments.

The new model rolled out by Fair Isaac Corp., called FICO 08, is similar to previous versions in that it uses the same scoring range of 300 to 850 and incorporates familiar credit history factors in its calculation. But Fair Isaac said FICO 08 offers sharper analysis, allowing lenders to home in on indicators that predict default, particularly for consumers with negative information on their reports.

Fair Isaac said Thursday that TransUnion is the first credit reporting agency to offer the score to lenders. Equifax spokesman Tim Klein said his agency will offer the new score in coming months. An Experian representative said the firm could not comment because of pending litigation with Fair Isaac.

Careen Foster, director of scoring product management at Fair Isaac, said a key difference with the new credit score is that it penalizes people who have a history of habitually late payments. But consumers who have had isolated financial troubles might see improvements in their scores because the new model will cut them some slack.

The change is a routine update of the scoring model and not a response to the current economic crisis, she said.

"The good news is that a lot of things that lenders are struggling with are being addressed. The things that we are looking at are going to help lenders make better decisions on consumers that have blemished credit histories," Foster said. "That's good not only for lenders, but for consumers too."

Jim Carr, chief operating officer of the National Community Reinvestment Coalition, doesn't favor tweaking credit scores. He said the foreclosure surge arose from lenders giving borrowers more credit than their scores indicated they could afford, for the sake of increased profits. "We … have to be very cautious in this environment of not penalizing the consumers by saying that people with less than 700 credit scores were bad risks," he said.



Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: drkaje on January 30, 2009, 08:56:53 AM
Bay,

Amex also has a psychological profiling program built in to pick up 'risky' changes in customer spending habits. There are even codes for different types of medical providers. For example if you see a marriage counselor... they know. :)


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on January 30, 2009, 12:49:02 PM
I saw that in the paper today... but I'm not an AmEx cardholder... :)


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/31/your-money/credit-and-debit-cards/31money.html?hp

A (Very) Watchful Eye on Credit Card Spending

By RON LIEBER
You probably know that credit card companies have been scrutinizing every charge on your account in recent years, searching for purchases that thieves may have made. Turns out, though, that some of the companies have been suspicious of you, too.

In recent months, American Express has gone far beyond simply checking your credit score and making sure you pay on time. The company has been looking at home prices in your area, the type of mortgage lender you’re using and whether small-business card customers work in an industry under siege. It has also been looking at how you spend your money, searching for patterns or similarities to other customers who have trouble paying their bills.

In some instances, if it didn’t like what it was seeing, the company has cut customer credit lines. It laid out this logic in letters that infuriated many of the cardholders who received them. “Other customers who have used their card at establishments where you recently shopped,” one of those letters said, “have a poor repayment history with American Express...


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: drkaje on January 30, 2009, 03:02:04 PM
Bay,

I was just coming to post the link, LOL!


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: Faust on February 01, 2009, 09:40:15 AM
Quote
Today, my fiance "thought I should know" that she has a $125,000 student loan debt.
Just read this on another site and made me think of this thread.

Dump her or keep her???

I'd be fucking pissed.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: Andy Griffin on February 01, 2009, 09:44:52 AM
If this girl was willing to even talk to me...much less give me a little somethin' somethin', I would give a shit about her credit score. 

(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=260553.0;attach=301618)


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on February 01, 2009, 02:00:13 PM
Today, my fiance "thought I should know" that she has a $125,000 student loan debt.

Just read this on another site and made me think of this thread.

Dump her or keep her???

I'd be fucking pissed.


Yikes!  That is not good news but it is not disqualifying ether; in the right context one could deal with it.  For example, why are her loans so big?  Did she just finish medical school?  That would not be an unusual loan amount for a new M.D. degree recipient.  If she were top of her class in a first tier law school that would also be fine. 

Unfortunately, these days many college graduates have huge loan debts from earning a bachelors degree at no name colleges or undistinguished institutions with majors that do not lead to well paying careers.  This was recently the subject of a story on 20/20.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Economy/story?id=6654468&page=1


So what would you do Faust?  Dump her or keep her? ???


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: drkaje on February 01, 2009, 02:20:34 PM
$125K isn't bad depending upon what her job pays.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: Faust on February 01, 2009, 02:31:21 PM
So what would you do Faust?  Dump her or keep her? ???
I don't know, i'm not that familiar with the american system. Education is very cheap here in Europe, so we don't usually get loans for that.
Top wages are also lower so i guess in the end it equals out.

Still, 125k seems like a lot of money and i'd seriously re-evaluate everything, especially if you are already engaged and she never told me (which strikes me as a bit odd that you don't know that).



Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on February 01, 2009, 03:41:48 PM
$125K isn't bad depending upon what her job pays.

Get real!  If she has that kind of debt and felt the need to disclose/confess it to her fiancé, chances are her income alone could never easily dispatch it.

My brother’s best friend got married several years ago.  Before they wed, she told her husband-to-be that she had $30K in credit card & student loan debt.  He was unhappy to put it mildly, but he ate it and married her.  Lucky for her, he had the cash and then some; they are still happily married. :)



Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: drkaje on February 01, 2009, 08:20:50 PM
Get real!  If she has that kind of debt and felt the need to disclose/confess it to her fiancé, chances are her income alone could never easily dispatch it.

My brother’s best friend got married several years ago.  Before they wed, she told her husband-to-be that she had $30K in credit card & student loan debt.  He was unhappy to put it mildly, but he ate it and married her.  Lucky for her, he had the cash and then some; they are still happily married. :)



I have no revolving CC stuff going on but have an assload of student loans. I'll make enough money to cover them but it really is the cost of being a doctor. There's a minimum amount I have to get from a contract (after residency) or things don't work. That will probably be the determining factor on taking a job more than anything else. I'd rather stay in the home town but it may not be affordable. I will consider one of those 7 year programs in poor areas where they pay down student loans but it depends upon the specialty and if someone offers enough 'real' money to make up for having the loans paid off.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on February 16, 2009, 11:43:35 AM
that's ridiculous. I see your point somewhat...but often times people's credit gets messed up from events out of their control. Like when the factory I worked at for 12 years shut down...Many people lost jobs and were forced to start over somewhere else for less pay. I think it just depends on the situation.Sometimes bad things happen to good people.

Is it? ???


well i've never borrowed money in my life or had any bad dealings with a bank so mine is fine, but i honestly think that treating a potential partner as a financial investment is one of the dumbest things i've ever heard and openly saying that to 9/10 people would just leave you on the sidewalk, fair enough you don't want to be some bum, but it doesn't take a credit check to see if someone is financially sound or a homeless bum you know what i mean.

Apparently your view is not as popular as you may think.  Even CNN is reporting on the intersection of love, debt, and credit.

Got debt? Forget love.
CNN's Carol Costello reports on how a mountain of debt can destroy love faster than even an STD.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/living/2009/02/16/cc.dating.debt.dnt.cnn


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: drkaje on February 16, 2009, 11:49:03 AM
Finances are why most marriages fail.

I would bang the shit out of a hottie with bad credit but maybe not seriously date her. Hard to say because the formula is flawed and can easily be manipulated with authorized used status and so on. Also, it's dependent on utilization percentage and other factors s even though I get the argument that FICO scores are a measure of financial management ability but it's a little lame and there are probably a lot of circumstances that can mess someone's shit up.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: Stubborn on February 16, 2009, 01:03:31 PM
I am dating someone with significant debt from school loans. My credit score is decent too. Whats the big deal? We are great together.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on February 16, 2009, 03:04:40 PM
I am dating someone with significant debt from school loans. My credit score is decent too. Whats the big deal? We are great together.

If all is well and you two are happy then this thread needn't concern you.  Not every thread is relevant to everyone.

The point of this thread is to inform.  Many people—especially young people—have no idea how important a credit score is and the many ways it impacts you without you even knowing it: cost of borrowing, cost of auto insurance, getting or not getting job offers, etc.  Before you read about it in this thread, did you know that many employers pull your credit report before offering you a job? Or that a bad score can disqualify you for a job?  You may not have the type of job where that will happen to you right now, but you might in the future.

How many people reading this thread know their low, middle, and high score (it is important to know all three) from Trans Union, Equifax and Experian?  Your goal should be to get your score above 800 at all three agencies and keep it there! ;)



Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: Stubborn on February 16, 2009, 05:18:13 PM
I knew of the checking of scores, sure, but imagined it to apply only to upper management/high paid positions.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on February 17, 2009, 11:11:08 AM
If being rejected because of your bad credit score makes you unhappy just be glad you are living now and not in the future.  In the near future, people will be screening partners based on their genetic make up. 

As we saw in the movie Gattaca, it will soon be possible to take a simple blood test and get a genetic profile that details your probability for heart disease, cancers, high athleticism, high intelligence, and lots of other factors.  The screening service will be offered by private companies like the Fertility Institutes.  They are already bragging about what they can or will soon be able to offer.

If you can brandish a good or superior genetic profile, people will consider you more desirable.  If you cannot afford the test or have a poor test result, you will be considered less attractive.  At least you have some control over your credit score; like it or not the genetic score is coming...  :-\


PREDICTIVE GENOMICS TO BE AVAILABLE: Eye color, hair color, cancer tendency and more*
December 12, 2008

We are pleased to announce the pending availability of a greatly expanded panel of available genetic tests that may be combined with our world renown aneuploidy and gender selection testing. For the first time ever, patients having genetic screening for abnormal chromosome conditions in their embryos will be able to elect expanded testing that can greatly increase the odds of achieving a healthy pregnancy with a preselected choice of gender, eye color, hair color and complexion, along with screening for potentially lethal diseases, screening for cancer tendencies (breast, colon, pancreas, prostate) and more. Not all patients will qualify for these tests and we make NO guarantees as to "perfect prediction" of things such as eye color or hair color.


http://www.fertility-docs.com/news_events.phtml?ID=22
https://www.23andme.com/ (this company was founded by the wife of one of the guys who founded Google and he is bankrolling it.)


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on February 17, 2009, 11:18:30 AM
Worried about the discriminatory use of such tests; society will likely move to make them illegal, but they will flourish in a black market and everyone who can afford it will still pay to get their genetic score.  People will then use a high score as a way to market themselves to potential partners—or even employers.

Does anyone doubt this is going to happen?  If you had a good genetic score wouldn’t you try to use it to your advantage (even if doing so were against the law)?

Forget about race, gender, sexual orientation, or religious beliefs. The future will be about genetic advantage/discrimination!



Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on February 19, 2009, 12:30:41 PM
Money and Marriage
Jean Chatzky, Author and Money Coach
Mixing love and money can result in a mess. Author and money coach Jean Chatzky was online to help couples sort through a tangle of financial questions, from combining bank accounts to setting a wedding budget. Chatzky is the financial editor for NBC's Today, a contributing editor for More Magazine, a columnist for The New York Daily News, and a contributor to The Oprah Winfrey Show.


Q&A with Jean
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2009/02/13/DI2009021302909.html?hpid=smartliving


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on February 25, 2009, 09:46:32 AM
Market for Romance Goes From Bullish to Sheepish
Crash has had a particular impact on young adults who developed dating skills in better times.

See the tall, gregarious young man in the Eighteenth Street Lounge, moving easily toward a group of receptive women as the floor vibrates with reggae music? He's dressed in a sharp Hugo Boss suit, and he knows that the minimum for a table is $240.

But he's not offering to buy the drinks. And the suit? He bought it a year ago, when he had a six-figure salary.

Dating in the time of the pink slip means feeling the squeeze of the drastically reduced paycheck, the sudden sting of the layoff. From investment bankers to real estate developers to construction workers, no job means no buying rounds of $15 martinis for a pretty woman and her girlfriends. No hosting parties in the bachelor loft. And often, no idea how to present one's new self on the dating market.

"It's been incredibly stressful for me," said Neil Welsh, 27, the guy in the suit, who until last year was marketing director for a booming real estate company. "I was so used to using my financial situation to leverage my dating."

For many affected by the recession, dating is the least of their worries. But the market crash has had a particular impact on young adults who developed their dating skills in fat times, the twentysomethings who spent lavishly to show that they could afford the finer things. Now, with national unemployment rates at 8.8 percent for people 25 to 34, they are looking for more creative ways to attract partners -- and reassessing what all that big spending really meant.

Formal studies on the matter are hard to find, and Washington area employment rates are still higher than those of many other metropolitan areas. But interviews with young singles in area nightclubs and cafes and at parties reveals that financial stress is affecting the romantic lives of those who have lost sizable disposable incomes.

Alexandria native Niko Papademitriou, 27, became an investment banker with a Cleveland firm soon after he graduated from college. The money was steady enough for him to fly regularly to Manhattan to see his girlfriend and take her to upscale restaurants such as Bond Street and Cafe Gray.

"A large aspect of my life -- three out of the first five conversations that we had -- I told her, 'You're not going to see much of me in the next 15 years if we start dating, because I'm going to be making a lot of money.' " He thinks that worked in his favor, "not so much for the money, but for the drive. It's one of those things in men that women find attractive."

Since being laid off in November, he has moved back to Alexandria to live with his mother. He now takes the Chinatown bus -- for as little as $5 each way -- to visit his girlfriend. Round-trip airfare between Cleveland and New York City averages more than $200.

"It's definitely putting stress on our relationship," he said recently, sitting in an Old Town cafe. "It comes back to this whole manhood thing. Like, can you be the provider, not just for yourself but for others?"

It's been tough on his girlfriend, he said. "She knows that she needs to be this understanding, positive influence in my life. At the same time, there is a lot of fear on her part, knowing that my industry and the one that we had kind of mentally projected ourselves and our way of life on could be over, or at least on pause for a while."

For Natalie Huddleston, 27, a marketer at a law firm, dating itself is on hold. Standing with her girlfriends on an outdoor deck of the Eighteenth Street Lounge, nursing a Manhattan, the Arlington resident said men ask her out much less since the market crash.

"They're spending more time at networking events, happy hours, with their guy friends -- trying to get leads on jobs, rather than spending it on women," she said. "I feel bad for the guys who don't have jobs."

Bad enough to date them? She smiled and shook her head. "I guess I'm kind of traditional. So if a guy can't really take you out or doesn't have the money or the state of mind to take girls out, then it's not going to go anywhere."

Even in this post-feminist age, the vast majority of those interviewed said men pick up the tab on dates. But some women said they have lowered their expectations. "I look for free things that we can do together, and I'm more conscious about the money that he is spending," said Laura Sambataro, 22, of Bethesda.

Jamie Fabrizio, 26, a Catholic school teacher from Arlington, said a man doesn't have to spend a lot, but he has to act like an Alpha male.

"Guys should be bold; whether or not they have money doesn't matter," she said. But if a guy asks her out, she added, she expects him to pay for dinner.

It's unlikely then that either she or Huddleston would date Paul Almeter, 25. Since business at the Annandale construction company he owns has fallen 50 percent, he has come up with innovative ways to cut down on the $600 to $700 he used to spend each month on dates.

He takes his dates hiking, which is free other than gas. He takes them on his motorcycle to visit wineries, or to a baseball game.

"I'm more inclined to tell my girlfriend to come over to my house and hang out with me than take her to D.C., definitely. "

In the end, he said, a loving relationship should be able to thrive without the rib-eye steak and Moet.

"How much you spend on a girl, I think that's superficial," he said. "If you call her at the end of the day, send a text message in the middle of the day and ask her how her day's going, that's more important than spending money."

Lindsey Schwalb, 22, of Arlington said the financial crunch has made men she knows more amenable to settling down. "People are looking for some form of stability. Instead of someone you have to impress monetarily, they want someone they can concentrate on spending quality time with."

Welsh said he is scaling back on dating costs while he builds a new business, an Internet marketing company.

"Now I'm more inclined to take a girl to a good ethnic restaurant," he said, whereas before, "I was constantly worried about being judged for how much money I was spending."

Not that there isn't judging. "One of the first questions is: 'What do you do? You own your own company? How many people work for you? Are you working at home or do you go to an office?' They are literally sizing you up." And, he said, he doesn't blame them -- especially if the girl is beautiful. "They can afford to be picky."

And although he used to go on several dates a week, he said, he's now pickier about whom he asks out. "It's shown me that it was silly to spend money on girls that I may or may not like."

Papademitriou has delayed plans to buy his girlfriend an engagement ring. He is considering a career in government, which pays much less than investment banking but is less volatile. And his unexpected financial straits have led him to look harder at himself.

"Inadequacy," he said. "I can't harp on that word enough. I just feel inadequate. Why have I not found a job yet? And what if this happens eight years from now when I'm married and have a 2-year-old? Do I go through this again? Do I trust myself that I can pull it off? And I do, but in the midst of it, you definitely question yourself."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/24/AR2009022403925.html?hpid=topnews


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on March 31, 2009, 12:11:26 PM
Credit scores were the primary determining factor for giving out sub-prime loans. How'd that work out?

Going forward, I think you're going to see your beloved credit scores not meaning squat.

Do you also believe people will trade in their computers for typewriters or their cars for a horse and buggy?  Computers have made it easier than ever for credit bureaus to crunch numbers, hence the rise in use of things like Conjunctive History.  I think going forward scores are going to be used more and more—not less.

Banks use these scores, insurance companies use these scores, employers use these scores.  For better or worse, the use of these scores is going to proliferate not contract.  I predict that some version of a credit score is going to start showing up on dating services and dating sites. :-\

Do yourself a favor: get your score up and keep it up.



Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on June 07, 2009, 06:56:39 AM
Trapped: It's hard to get a job if your credit is bad
If you're unemployed, falling behind on bills can make it tougher to find work
By Tiffany Hsu

Dan Denton is stuck in a vicious cycle: He's behind on his bills after losing his job. But lousy credit is spoiling his chances of finding new employment.

Recruiters from a St. Louis-based investment company recently rescinded an offer after looking at his credit history, which has been mauled by overdue card payments and an impending foreclosure on his Inland Empire house. He and his wife, Dana, filed for bankruptcy protection this month to try to hang on to their home.

"Of course your credit's going to look bad when you've been unemployed for months," said Denton, 60, a former fundraiser for the Crystal Cathedral in Garden Grove. "But what relevance does that have on your performance?"

The credit report is becoming the latest hurdle for unemployed workers in a dismal U.S. job market. Up to half of employers use credit screening to weed out potentially troublesome hires, though estimates vary, and the practice is on the rise.

Money woes could signal disorder in an individual's personal life that could translate into slipshod work habits, some staffing experts said. Companies lose billions annually to employee theft. A sterling credit history, they said, points to a worker who is more likely to be disciplined, trustworthy and reliable.

Mary M. Massad, managing director of screening services for personnel management company Administaff Inc., said credit checks help companies hire "the highest-quality individuals.

"It's . . . about being proactive in order to avoid trouble down the line," she said. "Companies . . . want an insight into how an individual conducts their own life, because that's typically how they're going to conduct business inside your business."

Screening employment prospects this way is legal in California and most of the country as long as it is disclosed to applicants, who must give permission for a credit check to be run.

But some experts said that there's no clear link between credit history and job performance and that the reports don't paint a complete picture, omitting details about divorces, medical bills or even identity theft . . ."

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-cover-badcredit7-2009jun07,0,108282,full.story


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: Parker on June 08, 2009, 07:42:39 AM
I have and it was terrible...she was a good person, but her f-up ways in handling money has put me in debt...


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: drkaje on June 08, 2009, 08:54:06 AM
I have and it was terrible...she was a good person, but her f-up ways in handling money has put me in debt...

Damn!!


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: Parker on June 08, 2009, 03:17:24 PM
Damn!!

yo, if it wasn't for her, i could afford a bike, a house, and still have a full head of hair...

NEVER EVER date a woman who makes as much as you do, has no real responsibilities, but yet can't pay her own rent, has had her car repoed, and her own mother has quite helping her, and will not let her move in.

But, yet as I said, she has VERY beautiful personality.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: drkaje on June 08, 2009, 03:57:44 PM
yo, if it wasn't for her, i could afford a bike, a house, and still have a full head of hair...

NEVER EVER date a woman who makes as much as you do, has no real responsibilities, but yet can't pay her own rent, has had her car repoed, and her own mother has quite helping her, and will not let her move in.

But, yet as I said, she has VERY beautiful personality.

Fuck that shit. I wouldn't be transferring balances onto my cards for any nice set of tits.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: Parker on June 08, 2009, 04:20:39 PM
Fuck that shit. I wouldn't be transferring balances onto my cards for any nice set of tits.

GG's, negro, GG's...It was more of me being "SuperNegro", not the tiggoes, she was a good friend, and I had to cut her off, no more help...Nice guys finish with no dough in their bank accounts.

She was true 100 grade Kryptonian Kryptonite. So much so that my female friends wanted to have a "meeting" with her.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: Deicide on June 08, 2009, 05:14:03 PM
If one is independently wealthy then this subject (like so many others) would not apply to you.  Most people however depend on credit and therefore need a good credit rating.  The sooner young people learn that the better off they will be.  :)

Some things are particularly difficult to buy without a credit card though in those cases a debit card will usually suffice.

I don't own a credit card.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: Parker on June 08, 2009, 08:19:14 PM
I don't own a credit card.

I at one time didn't..til my mom was telling me I needed to build credit. I used to pay for everything via cash..no cash in wallet no pay.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: Deicide on June 09, 2009, 01:01:37 AM
I at one time didn't..til my mom was telling me I needed to build credit. I used to pay for everything via cash..no cash in wallet no pay.

I do have a debit card but that is different.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: Parker on June 09, 2009, 04:25:44 AM
I do have a debit card but that is different.

Me too as well...debt is now my mistress.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: Deicide on June 09, 2009, 06:49:18 AM
If being rejected because of your bad credit score makes you unhappy just be glad you are living now and not in the future.  In the near future, people will be screening partners based on their genetic make up. 

As we saw in the movie Gattaca, it will soon be possible to take a simple blood test and get a genetic profile that details your probability for heart disease, cancers, high athleticism, high intelligence, and lots of other factors.  The screening service will be offered by private companies like the Fertility Institutes.  They are already bragging about what they can or will soon be able to offer.

If you can brandish a good or superior genetic profile, people will consider you more desirable.  If you cannot afford the test or have a poor test result, you will be considered less attractive.  At least you have some control over your credit score; like it or not the genetic score is coming...  :-\


PREDICTIVE GENOMICS TO BE AVAILABLE: Eye color, hair color, cancer tendency and more*
December 12, 2008

We are pleased to announce the pending availability of a greatly expanded panel of available genetic tests that may be combined with our world renown aneuploidy and gender selection testing. For the first time ever, patients having genetic screening for abnormal chromosome conditions in their embryos will be able to elect expanded testing that can greatly increase the odds of achieving a healthy pregnancy with a preselected choice of gender, eye color, hair color and complexion, along with screening for potentially lethal diseases, screening for cancer tendencies (breast, colon, pancreas, prostate) and more. Not all patients will qualify for these tests and we make NO guarantees as to "perfect prediction" of things such as eye color or hair color.


http://www.fertility-docs.com/news_events.phtml?ID=22
https://www.23andme.com/ (this company was founded by the wife of one of the guys who founded Google and he is bankrolling it.)


Genetics=everything

Team Horrible Genetics approved


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on June 21, 2009, 12:24:44 PM
Going forward, I think you're going to see your beloved credit scores not meaning squat.

Thin Lizzy... increasingly out of touch.  ::)


Credit Score Shell Game
As High Scores Vanish, Borrowers' Luck Runs Out
By Nancy Trejos, Washington Post Staff Writer

As banks tighten their lending standards, one number is playing an increasingly critical role in determining the financial fortunes of consumers: the credit score.

Lenders use them to decide whether to extend credit and at what interest rate. As lenders demand higher scores, more Americans are having trouble getting loans.

Others aren't getting loans at all because their scores have dropped. They may have lost their jobs and not kept up with credit card and mortgage payments, or in some cases card companies have taken adverse actions against them. Eager to mitigate risks, card issuers have closed accounts or slashed credit lines, leaving customers with less available credit. Customers who have used up much of their credit then are closer to maxed out, which further hurts their scores.

To add to their crisis, people who try to take matters in hand and pay to find out their credit scores discover that it can be difficult to learn the score that lenders actually use to evaluate them.

"Credit scores have taken on a new degree of importance," said Scott Talbott, senior vice president for government affairs at the Financial Services Roundtable, an industry group. "In the past it was a question of 'What will your interest rate be?', and now it's 'Will you even get a loan?' "

As a result, credit is less available to both low-risk and high-risk consumers at a time when they -- and the economy -- need it the most.

"The consumer who desperately needs credit right now is in a very bad situation," said John Ulzheimer, president of consumer education for Credit.com. "The consumer who is remaining consistent, the market is passing them by . . . You have more cars sitting on car lots and you have houses with for sale signs."

Jane Graver is one of those desperate consumers. She once had a credit score of about 700, which before the credit crunch made her a desirable candidate for a loan. Most lenders use the FICO score, which runs on a scale of 300 to 850.

Faced with a divorce, serious illness and tough economy, Graver, a small-business owner, missed a few credit card payments and used up her home-equity line of credit. She was close to being maxed out. Last year, her score dropped to the mid-500s.

Now that lenders are demanding credit scores of 720 or higher, she is considered even more of a risk and cannot get a mortgage -- or even find a landlord willing to rent her a home. Her house in Orange, N.J., sold at a price high enough to cover her mortgage and line of credit, but she is struggling with what to do next.

"It is difficult to cope," said the mother of two. "I am absolutely unable to get a mortgage."

As scores become increasingly important, they have also become increasingly perplexing. Consumers have free access to the credit reports used to determine their scores, but they have to pay to check them. With the heightened interest, many borrowers have been doing just that, buying their scores from a variety of Web sites, only to find out that they might be different from the ones lenders use, according to bank officials and consumer advocates.

"One of the things consumers have to understand about scores is that there are a number of different scores within the marketplace," said Norm Magnuson, vice president of public affairs at the Consumer Data Industry Association, a trade group.

The FICO score, which was developed by a company formerly known as Fair Isaac, is the dominant player in the industry. It is calculated based on the information contained in credit reports, which list a consumer's debts and payment history. Three bureaus -- TransUnion, Experian and Equifax -- keep those credit reports.

However, to compete with the FICO score, the three bureaus united in 2006 to create VantageScore, which ranges from 501 to 990, which they sell to lenders.

Complicating matters is that Experian and TransUnion have developed their own scores, which the agencies call educational scores because they are intended to help consumers gauge their own creditworthiness. Lenders cannot even buy Experian's score. They can buy TransUnion's but tend to go with the FICO score instead.

On its Web site, FreeCreditReport.com, Experian gives people their Plus score if they pay $14.95 a month for a credit-monitoring service, which they can cancel after a seven-day trial period. They have to dig through the terms and conditions before getting to this disclosure: "The PLUS Score is not a so-called FICO score, and may differ for a variety of reasons."

TransUnion also offers a $14.95-a-month credit-monitoring service with a 30-day trial period on TrueCredit.com. That gives consumers access to the bureau's scores. Like Experian, TransUnion discloses on its Web site that its score is not the same as a FICO score.

Equifax gives FICO scores to anyone who pays $14.95 a month for its credit-monitoring service.

Susan Henson, a spokeswoman for Experian, said the educational scores are still a good tool for consumers even if they are not what lenders use.

"The most important thing is they're really measuring the same thing, which is that consumer's level of risk, whether they are an extremely low-risk consumer or whether they are a high-risk consumer," she said.

But some consumer advocates say the educational scores are of little use and too expensive.

Ulzheimer likens them to faux designer bags. "It's like selling a Gucci bag on the streets of New York," he said. It looks like the real thing, but it's not.

"It exposes something two of the three bureaus don't want people to know," he added. "They make a whole lot of money selling scores."

Indeed, the recession has been a boon for many of the Web sites that sell credit scores. Traffic on FreeCreditReport.com, for instance, grew 6 percent, to 6.6 million visitors, in March, according to ComScore, which tracks Web sites.

Sean Craig, a retail manager in Ashburn, was one Experian customer. When he first checked a few months ago, his Experian score was 720. Then American Express lowered his Blue Cash card limit to $5,900 from $11,300. His score dropped to 683, then to 681. When he called American Express to ask why his limit had been reduced, he was told he had too much debt and that his credit score was actually 570.

Craig assumed the Experian score was the one American Express used, but American Express was looking at his FICO score.

"I was shocked when I checked and it was 683. I was even more shocked when I saw it was 570," Craig said. "It's driving me nuts. The whole thing seems utterly arbitrary."

Such big gaps between the educational scores and the FICO scores are not unusual.

"It's a real problem," said Evan Hendricks, author of "Credit Scores and Credit Reports" and editor of Privacy Times. "People are trying to be good, intelligent, educated consumers. They want to see their score, their report. Then they get a 'fake-o' score, which is most likely inflated, while the lender is using the FICO score . . . People think they're better off than they are."

Adding to the confusion is that even FICO scores can vary. That's because the company regularly updates the formula it sells to credit bureaus. The lenders can choose to buy the new or an older version of the formula, and they sometimes settle on an older version if it is cheaper and easier. "The lenders using scores from an older version, they're not using bad scores," said Craig Watts, a spokesman for FICO. "They're still doing the job but not doing it quite as well as the newer version."

Watts recommends getting FICO scores at Equifax.com or myFICO.com.

Other credit score experts said a better gauge of a consumer's financial health is the credit report. If they have paid bills on time, have no negative public records such as bankruptcies, and have used less than 30 percent of available credit, they probably have a good score, Magnuson said.

It's clear that's no longer the case for many Americans.

The average TransUnion credit score was 651 in the first quarter of this year, the same as it was the fourth quarter of 2008. But that was a six-point drop from the previous quarter. Experian reported a 5-point drop in the VantageScore, from 751 in the fourth quarter of 2007 to 746 in the fourth quarter of 2008.

Equifax, however, reported an increase in average scores from May 2008 to this past May, from 699.8 to 701.9, which officials attributed to three factors. First, credit card issuers are taking on fewer new customers so there aren't as many inquiries on consumers' credit reports. Many inquiries hurt scores. Consumers are holding on to cards they have had for a long time, which helps scores. Lastly, more Americans are saving and not using credit.

Lower scores leave people such as Graver in a precarious position. She is struggling to make her online specialty tea business, DuckyLife.com, a success. To do so, she might need a loan someday, and she probably won't qualify. But her most immediate worry is a home. To Graver, having a lower credit score is "a nightmare."

I've "survived four life-threatening illnesses, six surgeries, divorce -- and all as a single mom," she said. "Now I cannot find a place to live."


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on June 23, 2009, 07:31:25 PM
Credit Scores: What You Need to Know
By JENNIFER BARRETT

You may not have checked your credit score lately, but there’s a good chance someone else has.

If you have applied for a mortgage or a loan — or even received a credit card offer in the mail — someone accessed that three-digit number to help determine the amount you can borrow and the interest you’ll owe on it.

So what goes into this all-important score? And how can you make sure you’ve got a good one?

The term credit score usually refers to your FICO score, a number based on a formula developed by the Fair Isaac Corporation. Fair Isaac looks at a summary of all your credit accounts and payment history. If you’ve got a mortgage, a MasterCard or a Macy’s account, it will be included in the report, as will late or missed payments. FICO scores range from 300 to 850, and Fair Isaac calculates them for each of the three big credit-reporting agencies: Equifax, Experian and TransUnion. That’s one reason why your FICO score with each may differ slightly. Generally speaking, the higher your score, the more money you can borrow and the less you’ll pay for the loan.

Here’s how your score is determined:

¶ 35 percent is determined by your payment history. Do you regularly pay your bills or fines on time to any creditor that submits your information to the credit bureau? Even unpaid library fines, medical bills or parking tickets may appear here.

¶ 30 percent is based on the amounts you owe each of your creditors, and how that compares with the total credit available to you or the total loan amount you took out. If you’re maxing out your credit cards, your score may suffer.

¶ 15 percent is based on the length of your credit history, both how long you’ve had each account and how long it’s been since you had any activity on those accounts. The fewer and older the accounts, the better (assuming you’ve made timely payments).

¶ 10 percent is based on how many accounts you’ve recently opened compared with the total number of your accounts, as well as the number of recent inquiries on your report made by lenders to whom you’ve applied for credit. Your score can drop if it looks as if you’re seeking several new sources of credit — a sign that you may be in financial trouble. (If a lender initiates an inquiry about your credit report without your knowledge, though, it should not affect your score.) Shopping around for an auto loan or mortgage shouldn’t hurt, if you keep your search to six weeks or less. But every inquiry you trigger when you apply for a credit card can affect your score, says Craig Watts, a spokesman for Fair Isaac. So be selective.

¶ The final 10 percent is determined by the types of credit used. Having installment debt — like a mortgage, in which you pay a fixed amount each month — demonstrates that you can manage a large loan. But how you handle revolving debt, like credit cards, tends to carry more weight since it’s seen as more predictive of future behavior. (You can pay off the balance each month or just the minimum, for example, charge to the limit of your cards or rarely use them.)

For the best rates on a loan or credit card, you want a score that’s above 700, at least. To achieve that, make sure to pay all your bills on time. It’s also a good idea to have at least one credit card you plan to use for a long time, but not too many. Keep a low balance — generally less than one-third of your total credit limit. Of course, it’s best to pay off your balance entirely each month. And stay on top of the information in your reports.

You can get a free copy of your credit report from each of the three major credit agencies once a year. Be sure to order it through annualcreditreport.com, the only authorized online site under federal law. If you notice information that’s inaccurate, you can submit a request for removal online at Equifax, , Experian or TransUnion. Or submit your request by mail. Be sure to specify what information you think is inaccurate and why, and include any documents that support your argument. Ask in writing that the information be corrected or removed from your report. By law, the bureaus must investigate your complaint, usually within 30 days, and give you a response in writing (or via e-mail, if your request was made online) and a free copy of your report, if the information is changed as a result. Your score should reflect that change shortly after.

To see your actual score, you’ll generally have to pay. You can go through Equifax, Experian or TransUnion directly, but be aware that the score you order may be one developed by the agencies themselves, like the TransUnion TransRisk New Account Score, Experian Plus or VantageScore. These are different than the FICO scores lenders generally use when they evaluate your loan applications. Myfico.com offers two reasonably priced options on its site. The $15.95 FICO Standard package (as of December 2008) gives you 30-day access to one FICO score and a credit report from one of the three major credit agencies. The $47.85 FICO Credit Complete package gives you 30-day access to your FICO scores and credit reports from all three major agencies. Myfico.com and other sites also offer services that monitor your score and report for a monthly fee (ranging from about $4.95 a month for myFico’s quarterly report to $6.65 a month for TransUnion’s Credit Monitoring Service).

Whether you need to monitor your credit that often is debatable. For most, a close look at the free annual reports from each bureau is probably enough. But if you plan to apply for a loan or credit card, check your score and report at least a couple of months beforehand. Not only will you be aware of how creditworthy you are, you’ll also have time to remove any errors you spot and make sure your score reflects the changes before you fill out any applications.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: Parker on June 24, 2009, 10:33:56 PM
Alexandria native Niko Papademitriou, 27, became an investment banker with a Cleveland firm soon after he graduated from college. The money was steady enough for him to fly regularly to Manhattan to see his girlfriend and take her to upscale restaurants such as Bond Street and Cafe Gray.

"A large aspect of my life -- three out of the first five conversations that we had -- I told her, 'You're not going to see much of me in the next 15 years if we start dating, because I'm going to be making a lot of money.' " He thinks that worked in his favor, "not so much for the money, but for the drive. It's one of those things in men that women find attractive."

Since being laid off in November, he has moved back to Alexandria to live with his mother. He now takes the Chinatown bus -- for as little as $5 each way -- to visit his girlfriend. Round-trip airfare between Cleveland and New York City averages more than $200.

"It's definitely putting stress on our relationship," he said recently, sitting in an Old Town cafe. "It comes back to this whole manhood thing. Like, can you be the provider, not just for yourself but for others?"

It's been tough on his girlfriend, he said. "She knows that she needs to be this understanding, positive influence in my life. At the same time, there is a lot of fear on her part, knowing that my industry and the one that we had kind of mentally projected ourselves and our way of life on could be over, or at least on pause for a while."



He has no clue, to tell his woman that. You tell a woman that you are gonna be making a lot of money, that is what she is there for. As Steve harvey was saying, "If you all you are about money, cars and clothes. That is all the woman will love you for, because you never let know you were about more than that"

And then dude tell her that she will not be seeing him that much...WTF, you just gave her the option to cheat...emotional and phyiscally.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on July 05, 2009, 07:59:20 AM
This is an extreme case, to be sure, but a panel of state appellate judges have ruled that this fellow will not be admitted to the state bar and practice law because his student loan debt is too high ($435,000)!


Finding Debt a Bigger Hurdle Than Bar Exam
Robert Bowman, an aspiring lawyer, was refused entry to the New York bar because of $400,000 in student debt.
By JONATHAN D. GLATER

All his life, Robert Bowman wanted to be a lawyer. He overcame a troubled childhood, a tragic accident that nearly cost him a leg and a debilitating Jet Ski collision.

He put himself through community college, worked and borrowed heavily to help pay for college, graduate school and even law school. He took the New York bar examination not once, not twice, not three times, but four, passing it last year. Finally, he seemed to be on his way.

In January, the committee of New York lawyers that reviews applications for admission to the bar interviewed Mr. Bowman, studied his history and the debt he had amassed, and called his persistence remarkable. It recommended his approval.

But a group of five state appellate judges decided this spring that his student loans were too big and his efforts to repay them too meager for him to be a lawyer.

“Applicant has not made any substantial payments on the loans,” the judges wrote in a terse decision and an unusual rejection of the committee’s recommendation. “Applicant has not presently established the character and general fitness requisite for an attorney and counselor-at-law.”

Mr. Bowman, 47, appears to have crossed some unspoken line with his $400,000 in student debt and penalties, accumulated over many years.

New York’s courts have overlooked misconduct like lawyers’ solicitation of minors for sex, efforts to deceive judges and possession of cocaine. Those instances have led merely to temporary suspensions from practice.

“It usually takes a pretty significant record of some underlying misconduct to keep you out permanently,” said Deborah L. Rhode, a law professor at Stanford who has studied bar admissions across the states. Excluding someone for having too much debt was odd, she said; the hard questions about loans usually involve applicants who have used bankruptcy to try to escape loans, she said, and Mr. Bowman has not.

Mr. Bowman concedes that he has never made a payment on his loans, partly because of medical and other deferrals and problems with his lender. But he says he intends to make good, adding that his only hope is to begin practicing law — which means overturning the judges’ decision...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/02/business/02lawyer.html


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on July 06, 2009, 12:12:49 PM
well i've never borrowed money in my life or had any bad dealings with a bank so mine is fine, but i honestly think that treating a potential partner as a financial investment is one of the dumbest things i've ever heard and openly saying that to 9/10 people would just leave you on the sidewalk, fair enough you don't want to be some bum, but it doesn't take a credit check to see if someone is financially sound or a homeless bum you know what i mean.


I have $90K in student debt!
When I signed up for the loans I figured I’d have a steady-paying job, and could easily pay off the full amount in under 20 years. Right now, all my monthly payments only equal up to the interest cost ($400), and my principal remains untouched.
I am in a situation where my husband-to-be resents my student loans and wants me to focus on paying them off “as soon as possible” so that our (his) credit remains “clean”. He and I have both been out of grad school for 2-3 years; he has a great job with benefits; I’m self-employed.
All this debt-mentality is rolling into other areas of my life.  We’ve wanted to start a family for the past several years and the biggest reason we have not yet is my student loan debt.
I feel like I can’t start my life until I own my education by paying off the balance. No new purchases or experiences because my mantra is “not until I pay off my student loans”.
It’s as if I’m not even a visible part of society yet until I’m out from under this student loan rock. I didn’t know earlier that my student loan debt would become so all-encompassing.


http://roomfordebate.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/14/how-much-student-debt-is-too-much/

I predict that this couple will not get married.  :-\

Guys: would you marry her? ???  http://snappoll.com/poll/299799.php



Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: JOCKTHEGLIDE on July 08, 2009, 07:48:10 AM
thats why obama is president for stupid situations like this,,,double edge sword my friend no way mcsame would of been president.  Granted you can fight a good credit score thats no big deal i helped plenty go frmo 500 to 750 in year and half or so most of that stuff you can fight except government debt dont try to fight that one. 

Trapped: It's hard to get a job if your credit is bad
If you're unemployed, falling behind on bills can make it tougher to find work
By Tiffany Hsu

Dan Denton is stuck in a vicious cycle: He's behind on his bills after losing his job. But lousy credit is spoiling his chances of finding new employment.

Recruiters from a St. Louis-based investment company recently rescinded an offer after looking at his credit history, which has been mauled by overdue card payments and an impending foreclosure on his Inland Empire house. He and his wife, Dana, filed for bankruptcy protection this month to try to hang on to their home.

"Of course your credit's going to look bad when you've been unemployed for months," said Denton, 60, a former fundraiser for the Crystal Cathedral in Garden Grove. "But what relevance does that have on your performance?"

The credit report is becoming the latest hurdle for unemployed workers in a dismal U.S. job market. Up to half of employers use credit screening to weed out potentially troublesome hires, though estimates vary, and the practice is on the rise.

Money woes could signal disorder in an individual's personal life that could translate into slipshod work habits, some staffing experts said. Companies lose billions annually to employee theft. A sterling credit history, they said, points to a worker who is more likely to be disciplined, trustworthy and reliable.

Mary M. Massad, managing director of screening services for personnel management company Administaff Inc., said credit checks help companies hire "the highest-quality individuals.

"It's . . . about being proactive in order to avoid trouble down the line," she said. "Companies . . . want an insight into how an individual conducts their own life, because that's typically how they're going to conduct business inside your business."

Screening employment prospects this way is legal in California and most of the country as long as it is disclosed to applicants, who must give permission for a credit check to be run.

But some experts said that there's no clear link between credit history and job performance and that the reports don't paint a complete picture, omitting details about divorces, medical bills or even identity theft . . ."

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-cover-badcredit7-2009jun07,0,108282,full.story



Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on August 08, 2009, 06:54:32 AM
Another Hurdle for the Jobless: Credit Inquiries
By JONATHAN D. GLATER

Digging out of debt keeps getting harder for the unemployed as more companies use detailed credit checks to screen job prospects.

Out of work since December, Juan Ochoa was delighted when a staffing firm recently responded to his posting on Hotjobs.com with an opening for a data entry clerk. Before he could do much more, though, the firm checked his credit history.

The interest vanished. There were too many collections claims against him, the firm said.

“I never knew that nowadays they were going to start pulling credit checks on you even before you go for an interview,” said Mr. Ochoa, 46, who lost his job in December tracking inventory at a mining company in Santa Fe Springs, Calif. “Why would they need to pull a credit report? They’d need something like that if you were applying at a bank.”

Once reserved for government jobs or payroll positions that could involve significant sums of money, credit checks are now fast, cheap and used for all manner of work. Employers, often winnowing a big pool of job applicants in days of nearly 10 percent unemployment, view the credit check as a valuable tool for assessing someone’s judgment.

But job counselors worry that the practice of shunning those with poor credit may be unfair and trap the unemployed — who may be battling foreclosure, living off credit cards and confronting personal bankruptcy — in a financial death spiral: the worse their debts, the harder it is to get a job to pay them off.

“How do you get out from under it?” asked Matthew W. Finkin, a law professor at the University of Illinois, who fears that the unemployed and debt-ridden could form a luckless class. “You can’t re-establish your credit if you can’t get a job, and you can’t get a job if you’ve got bad credit.”

Others say that the credit check can be used to provide cover for discriminatory practices. Responding to complaints from constituents, lawmakers in a few states have recently proposed legislation that would restrict employers’ use of credit checks. While some measures languish, Hawaii has just imposed new restraints.

Business executives say that they have an obligation to be diligent and to protect themselves from employees who may be unreliable, unwise or too susceptible to temptation to steal, and that credit checks are a help.

“If I see too many negative things coming up on a credit check, it’s one of those things that raises a flag with me,” said Anita Orozco, director of human resources at Sonneborn, a petrochemical company based in Mahwah, N.J. She added that while bad credit alone would not be a reason to deny someone a job, it might reveal poor judgment.

“If you see a history of bad decision-making, you don’t want that decision-making overflowing into your organization,” she said.

More than 40 percent of employers use credit checks at least sometimes, according to a 2004 survey by the Society for Human Resource Management, up from 25 percent in 1998. The share has almost certainly risen today, say career counselors.

“It has been an ongoing and increasing issue,” said Mollie de Rojas, district coordinator for the local operations of the Ohio Department of Job and Family Services.

Credit counselors, worker advocates and the unemployed contend that a credit check is not always relevant to hiring decisions.

“There’s no relationship between being a personal trainer making $12 an hour” and having a good credit history, said Janet L. Newcomb, a career counselor in Huntington Beach, Calif. “People are being turned down for jobs on the basis of things that really have nothing to do with qualifications.”

That is the complaint of Kevin Palmer, 49, who for months lived at the same homeless shelter in Santa Ana, Calif., as Mr. Ochoa. After an interview that seemed to go well one day in June at a property management company, a manager walked him around the office the next day, introduced him to other employees and showed him an available desk.

A credit check later, the offer vanished.

It was “a glorified clerk’s job, taking homeowners’ complaints,” Mr. Palmer said of the opportunity, which paid about $39,000 and could have gotten him back on his feet after losing his condominium to foreclosure and filing for bankruptcy.

Last month, he says he found a job at a property management company in San Francisco — a company that did not run a credit check on him

It is generally legal to run credit checks on job applicants, but some states have restrictions. In Washington, which has perhaps the most stringent requirement, a candidate’s credit history must be substantially related to the job under a law that took effect in 2007.

Last month, lawmakers in Hawaii approved a measure that generally allows an employer to review a credit history only after making an offer and requires the credit check to be “directly related” to job qualifications....

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/07/business/07credit.html?_r=1&em=&pagewanted=all


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on December 20, 2009, 07:25:08 AM
Solid credit rating can crumble quickly
Using a lot of your available credit and applying for more are good ways to lower your score, regardless of your payment history.

Dear Liz: I'm 28 and have had excellent credit since Day One. In May of this year, I leased a new car and found out my credit score was 780. In July I decided to lease a second vehicle. Instead of paying the leasing company monthly, I used a credit card balance transfer offer to write them a check for the entire two-year lease amount ($18,000). When I applied for two more credit cards in the following months, I was denied by both. I have never been late on any payments and always pay off my credit card debts (except for this balance transfer, on which I make monthly payments). Why was I denied credit? For a person with a great credit score, you can imagine how shocked I was.


Answer: You may not have the great credit you think you do.

You've been applying for a lot of credit in a short period, something that can adversely affect your scores. You also put a pile of debt on one of your cards, which can also hurt your numbers. Credit scoring formulas are sensitive to the amount of credit you're using on each card. The narrower the gap between your balances and your limit, the greater the potential damage.

Even if your scores are still good, they might not have been good enough for today's credit card issuers, especially if you applied for high-end rewards cards. These issuers often want FICO scores of 750 or above. Drop a point or two below, and you may be out of luck.

You didn't ask, but you should know that leasing cars is an expensive way to go. Most people are far better off financially buying slightly used cars and driving them for 10 years or more. They don't get to drive the latest models, but they save hundreds of thousands of dollars over their driving lifetimes compared with those who lease a new vehicle every few years.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-montalk20-2009dec20,0,7050203.column


Title: Pay your debts!
Post by: BayGBM on December 24, 2009, 11:35:40 AM
Would you date a "conservative" man with the morals of Methyl Mike?

Conservative lifestyle- I am not uppity nor a Bible thumper but I refuse to accept certain lifestyles because they are "popular" in todays culture. I am sorry but I have MORALS.

Apparently, his "morals" do not require him to pay his debts.   ::)

Ok so my score is about 600 right now. Have some stuff in collections which I doubt i will pay (its all pretty old). I have 1-2k i can afford to use for these credit cards. Advice? I currently have one cc with (dont laugh) a $300 limit which I have totally paid off. I wanted to buy a new car, but I'm not sure what to do really.

The majority of my 6k is interest. Since my debts are all about 3-4 years old, do I really stand to benefit by paying them now?


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on January 04, 2010, 05:39:40 AM
Your Credit Score: How to Improve It Now and Later
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Filed at 1:39 p.m. ET

NEW YORK (AP) -- Your past is never really behind you. Or so it seems when it comes to credit reports.

As you prepare to shape up your finances in 2010, you'll find that improving your credit score is among the more complicated tasks.

You may be bewildered by what helps or hurts your score, by how much and for how long. Regardless of whether you understand how it's calculated, the number you're tagged with can play a big hand in your financial fate.

Banks use credit scores to help decide whether to extend loans, and if so, at what price. A lower score will likely mean higher interest rates on credit cards, student loans and mortgages. In the latter scenario, the difference could amount to hundreds of dollars a month.

Generally speaking, a score below 620 is considered poor; 620-659 is fair; 660-749 is good, and 750-850 is excellent. It costs $15.95 to get your score at MyFico.com.

Here are some actions you can take, now and over time, to raise your number.

WHAT YOU CAN DO NOW

One of the fastest ways to improve your score is to pay down your balances. How much of a lift you'll get will depend on your overall credit profile. But paying off all balances could push someone in the 650-range into the 700-range, said Craig Watts, a spokesman for FICO, which formulates the most widely used credit scores.

This is because the portion of your credit line that you're using -- your so-called credit utilization -- is a big component of your score, accounting for about 30 percent.

If you buy the standard FICO score package at MyFico.com, you can access a simulator that tells just how much certain actions will lift or lower your score. For some scenarios, you can see how your score would change over one month, versus six months or two years.

In the case of paying down your balances, note that it provides a one-time benefit. You don't get any extra points for keeping your credit usage at a low level.

Also keep in mind that your report could reflect a high utilization even if you pay your bills on time. This could happen if your lender reports your balance to the credit bureau before you pay your bill. To avoid this scenario, pay off charges as soon as you can -- don't wait for due dates.

Another way to have a short-term impact on your score is to make payments on time. If you've been chronically late in the past several months, paying all your bills on time for just one month could boost your score by as much as 20 points.

You'll also want to check for any mistakes on your credit report, since your score is calculated based on the information it contains. You're entitled to one free credit report a year from each of the bureaus -- Equifax, Experian and TransUnion. To get your free reports, go to www.annualcreditreport.c om (beware of sites with similar names).

To correct any information, contact the credit bureau and the lender that reported the error. The Federal Trade Commission provides a sample letter on www.ftc.gov (click on ''Credit & Loans'' under the ''Quick Finder'' tab, then ''Credit Reports & Scoring'' and scroll to the bottom).

DIGGING IN FOR THE LONG HAUL

Once you pay down your debt, improving your score becomes a game of long-term vigilance.

''One week's good behavior isn't indicative of future risk,'' Watts said. ''To improve a poor score is a long-term project.''

The key is keeping your report free of any negative marks, which can take years to recover from. For someone with a score of 680, for example, a foreclosure can zap away as much as 105 points, while a bankruptcy can shave off 150 points. A single late payment of 30 days or more can drop your score by 80 points.

Just how steeply your score falls depends on factors such as how much you owe and how late you are. But repeat offenses aren't as damaging as the initial infraction, since your riskiness is already reflected by a lower score. So a second or third late payment shouldn't hammer you as much as the first.

The negative marks, including late payments, on your credit report for seven years. Chapter 7 bankruptcies, which wipe clean unsecured debt such as credit card bills, remain for 10 years. And the repercussions recede only over time, assuming you stay current on all your payments.

Applications for new credit ding your score too, although to a far lesser degree -- usually around five points

Finally, think twice before closing any accounts. The length of your credit history counts for about 15 percent of your score, so it's a good idea to hold onto any cards you've had for a long time. Those older cards, coupled with a steady history of prompt payments, should provide a good path to an improved score.

''The people who have really high scores are the least interesting,'' Watts said. ''They have few accounts and always keep low balances. For a risk manager, these people are the ones who are as reliable as a Swiss watch.''


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: Earl1972 on January 04, 2010, 05:23:59 PM
If being rejected because of your bad credit score makes you unhappy just be glad you are living now and not in the future.  In the near future, people will be screening partners based on their genetic make up. 

As we saw in the movie Gattaca, it will soon be possible to take a simple blood test and get a genetic profile that details your probability for heart disease, cancers, high athleticism, high intelligence, and lots of other factors.  The screening service will be offered by private companies like the Fertility Institutes.  They are already bragging about what they can or will soon be able to offer.

If you can brandish a good or superior genetic profile, people will consider you more desirable.  If you cannot afford the test or have a poor test result, you will be considered less attractive.  At least you have some control over your credit score; like it or not the genetic score is coming...  :-\


PREDICTIVE GENOMICS TO BE AVAILABLE: Eye color, hair color, cancer tendency and more*
December 12, 2008

We are pleased to announce the pending availability of a greatly expanded panel of available genetic tests that may be combined with our world renown aneuploidy and gender selection testing. For the first time ever, patients having genetic screening for abnormal chromosome conditions in their embryos will be able to elect expanded testing that can greatly increase the odds of achieving a healthy pregnancy with a preselected choice of gender, eye color, hair color and complexion, along with screening for potentially lethal diseases, screening for cancer tendencies (breast, colon, pancreas, prostate) and more. Not all patients will qualify for these tests and we make NO guarantees as to "perfect prediction" of things such as eye color or hair color.


http://www.fertility-docs.com/news_events.phtml?ID=22
https://www.23andme.com/ (this company was founded by the wife of one of the guys who founded Google and he is bankrolling it.)


good no more eyesores at wal mart in the future :D

E


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: Soul Crusher on January 06, 2010, 09:47:01 AM
As you may know, many employers now do credit checks on employees and have even declined to offer or rescinded job offers for people with bad credit scores.  The rationale being a particularly bad credit score is indicative of many other potential problems especially with regard to judgment.

Do you know your own credit score?

Would you date someone with bad credit or break up with someone once you learned s/he had bad credit?

It has been argued that knowing someone’s approximate credit score is more important than knowing someone’s HIV status.



GOOD DAMN QUESTION!!!!

One of my best friends got married to a reckless spendthrift with a 550 credit score, 30k in debt, and bad work ethic. 

He is now broke himself, going through a bitter divorce, and about to lose his kid.  He made many excuses for her spending and never shut her down until it was too late.  Now he is screwed for life unless he wins the lottery. 

MEN BEWARE - A CHIC WITH BAD CREDIT WILL DESTROY YOU!


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on February 14, 2010, 07:13:42 AM
Love me, love my credit score
Full financial disclosure before walking down the aisle can help prevent marital strife later.
Kathy M. Kristof

It's Valentine's Day, when even reasonable people wander around, engagement rings at the ready, blathering about how "love is the answer." ¶ Snap out of it! Love, in fact, may be the problem. ¶ Passion often blinds sweethearts to the fact that matrimony is, at bottom, a contract. Figuring out how that partnership can prosper is critical for a successful union. Yet financial differences rank among the greatest sources of marital misery, in part because talking about money before you tie the knot makes many couples uncomfortable. ¶ Some worry that prying into each other's finances might indicate a lack of trust, or that a prenuptial agreement is a self-fulfilling prophecy for splitting up. ¶ In fact, experts say, just the opposite is true. Spouses who find themselves bickering about finances early in their marriage could well end up hashing out the same issues in divorce court, according to Tina Tessina, a licensed psychotherapist and author of "Money, Sex & Kids: Stop Fighting About the Three Things That Can Ruin Your Marriage." ¶ "Everybody wants to focus on putting the wedding together and talk about things like having kids and a house," Tessina said. "But nobody wants to talk about the money part until you are married and financially entwined. Then it's too late."

No one is saying that money is everything. Romance, common interests, shared values and friends are important for the survival of a marriage too.

But couples must understand that money carries far more meaning than the simple things it can buy. How you handle money can telegraph how you feel about power, personal responsibility, charity and family. And these are the issues that can pull a marriage apart.

So what do you need to talk about? Here are a few suggestions from the pros:

Know the history

Understanding the past is important to building a solid future, said Cecily Maton, partner at the Chicago financial planning firm of Aequus Wealth Management.

Each partner needs to have an understanding of the other's experiences to grasp what might be motivating their behavior now. If your in-laws were cautious with money, chances are your beloved is too. If your parents spent carelessly, it would help to explain your credit card addiction.

This background can help you understand whether your partner sees money as a reward; a punishment; a tool or an albatross, she added.

"Even when couples think they know each other really well, it's amazing how often they say they're finding out something that they didn't know," she said.

Air the laundry

Forget affairs, drug habits and rap sheets. Some newlyweds have been most shocked to learn of a new spouse's checkered credit history.

That's why trading credit reports is also advisable before you tie the knot, Tessina said. These reports show how much debt you have outstanding and whether you've always been responsible about paying your bills.

You wouldn't necessarily dump somebody simply because they were in debt, said Brett Graff, a former government economist who edits the website HomeEconomist.com. But you'd certainly want to know whether that debt was linked to a lost job or an unexpected medical issue, or if it was a sign of something more ominous such as a hidden gambling habit or shopping addiction.

You may decide that you're so in love that you're willing to marry an overspender, said Laura Tarbox, a Newport Beach financial planner. But having that information might cause you to handle your finances differently, keeping your accounts separate, for example, so that the unencumbered spouse doesn't end up liable for debts he or she had no hand in creating.

"They won't let businesses merge without financial disclosures," Tessina said. "There's no law saying that you have to do that when you get married, but it should be a standard requirement so that you both know where you're at."

Set your goals

Next, you need to talk about the way you want to live and what you want to achieve.

Those conversations need to be specific, Tessina said.

"It's one thing to say that you both want a house. But one of you might be thinking about a little condo and the other wants a three-story home with a yard," she said.

Shared goals keep partners from blaming each other if things don't quite go as planned, said Lorraine Steen, a Miami Beach mother of two.

After Steen and her husband bought a house two years ago, they were dismayed to see prices tumble in the real estate bust. But they didn't take it out on each other because they had already agreed not to second-guess themselves.

Even on their honeymoon, they established rules about spending: If they agreed that a purchase made sense, they wouldn't fret later about whether they could have gotten it cheaper elsewhere or at another time.

"You can never go back and say 'I told you so.' Once we buy something, we enjoy it and move forward," Steen said.

Who does what?

After you understand how you feel about money and what your priorities are, it's time to get practical. How are you going to pay the bills?

Some couples choose to merge their checking and savings accounts and pay bills out of just one pot. Others divvy up expenses, and each pays certain bills. Some couples choose a "yours, mine and ours" approach, where they have a joint account that's fed with money from both to pay shared bills, but each keeps smaller separate accounts too.

The right answer can be as individual as the couple.

When Mark and Maria Wilson got married 20 years ago, for instance, they were fresh out of college and barely scraping by. They merged what little money they had because there wasn't enough to keep in separate accounts. No one could spend a dime without consulting the other.

About 15 years of doing that kept them on the same page, says Mark, a certified financial planner who works with Tarbox. The Wilsons could now afford to keep separate accounts, but don't feel they need to.

In contrast, when Lorraine and Joseph Steen married four years ago, they were both in their mid-30s and accustomed to handling their own finances, so they kept it that way.

A year later, the couple had their first child and bought a house. Suddenly, completely separate accounts didn't work.

They opened a third checking account to pay all the joint household expenses. They still keep their own accounts so they can maintain a certain level of fiscal autonomy.

"We were so used to doing our own thing, merging accounts was a whole new world for us," Lorraine said.

Get it in writing

Prenuptial agreements are written contracts laying out the division of assets and future earnings if a marriage falls apart.

Some people consider these documents so unromantic that they swear they would never marry anyone who even suggested such a thing.

But prenups make sense for couples that come into marriage with children or widely disparate assets, said Eleanor Blayney, consumer advocate for the Certified Financial Planners Board of Standards and the founder of Directions, a financial planning firm focused on women.

"They can take money out of the relationship, so there are no nagging questions, like 'Hmm, I wonder if he married me for my money?' " she said. "By recognizing that there is a financial aspect to a relationship, they can spell out that that's not what the relationship is about."

Family law attorney Ike Vanden Kykel said the contracts are almost always enforceable in court. The one caveat: Prenuptial agreements divide only income and assets. They don't deal with child custody issues.

In second-marriage situations, the agreements can be helpful to flesh out a host of sticky concerns such as who pays to educate the kids and the rights of a surviving spouse in the event of one's death.

Consider the kids

Planning to have children? That begets a whole series of money discussions.

For instance, will you want one partner to stay home while the kids are young? If so, who? And how will you handle money matters then? After all, while that partner may not bring home a paycheck, they're still contributing to the family well-being. If they don't have an income, does that mean they lose their "mad money" too?

With older couples, the practical issues get even more complicated, Tarbox said. You not only have to talk about how you'll pay your ongoing bills, you have to discuss the assets and debts each of you have coming into the marriage and whether you want to co-mingle those assets or keep them separate.

If you both have kids, will you share the cost of their upbringing and college, or do you intend to handle your respective kids' bills from the money you hold separately? You should also consider how you each feel about supporting your offspring as adults. Do you want to help them buy houses? Would you bail them out of crushing credit card debt? Under what circumstances could you see them moving back in?

There's no pat answer. It's just better to consider the possibilities before you marry rather than after.

Estate planning gets dicey too. You may want to leave your assets to your respective children, for example, but what happens to the surviving spouse when one of you dies? Does he or she lose access to the deceased partner's pension and savings? Could they lose control over the house?

"Everybody talks about marriage in terms of love and romance," Graff of HomeEconomist.com said. "But, ultimately, it's a legal and binding contract that affects property. It's important to know where the person is coming from and make sure you can live with whatever they are bringing to the table."

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-cover-love-money14-2010feb14,0,6454842.column


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 14, 2010, 07:26:25 AM
Love me, love my credit score
Full financial disclosure before walking down the aisle can help prevent marital strife later.
Kathy M. Kristof

It's Valentine's Day, when even reasonable people wander around, engagement rings at the ready, blathering about how "love is the answer." ¶ Snap out of it! Love, in fact, may be the problem. ¶ Passion often blinds sweethearts to the fact that matrimony is, at bottom, a contract. Figuring out how that partnership can prosper is critical for a successful union. Yet financial differences rank among the greatest sources of marital misery, in part because talking about money before you tie the knot makes many couples uncomfortable. ¶ Some worry that prying into each other's finances might indicate a lack of trust, or that a prenuptial agreement is a self-fulfilling prophecy for splitting up. ¶ In fact, experts say, just the opposite is true. Spouses who find themselves bickering about finances early in their marriage could well end up hashing out the same issues in divorce court, according to Tina Tessina, a licensed psychotherapist and author of "Money, Sex & Kids: Stop Fighting About the Three Things That Can Ruin Your Marriage." ¶ "Everybody wants to focus on putting the wedding together and talk about things like having kids and a house," Tessina said. "But nobody wants to talk about the money part until you are married and financially entwined. Then it's too late."

No one is saying that money is everything. Romance, common interests, shared values and friends are important for the survival of a marriage too.

But couples must understand that money carries far more meaning than the simple things it can buy. How you handle money can telegraph how you feel about power, personal responsibility, charity and family. And these are the issues that can pull a marriage apart.

So what do you need to talk about? Here are a few suggestions from the pros:

Know the history

Understanding the past is important to building a solid future, said Cecily Maton, partner at the Chicago financial planning firm of Aequus Wealth Management.

Each partner needs to have an understanding of the other's experiences to grasp what might be motivating their behavior now. If your in-laws were cautious with money, chances are your beloved is too. If your parents spent carelessly, it would help to explain your credit card addiction.

This background can help you understand whether your partner sees money as a reward; a punishment; a tool or an albatross, she added.

"Even when couples think they know each other really well, it's amazing how often they say they're finding out something that they didn't know," she said.

Air the laundry

Forget affairs, drug habits and rap sheets. Some newlyweds have been most shocked to learn of a new spouse's checkered credit history.

That's why trading credit reports is also advisable before you tie the knot, Tessina said. These reports show how much debt you have outstanding and whether you've always been responsible about paying your bills.

You wouldn't necessarily dump somebody simply because they were in debt, said Brett Graff, a former government economist who edits the website HomeEconomist.com. But you'd certainly want to know whether that debt was linked to a lost job or an unexpected medical issue, or if it was a sign of something more ominous such as a hidden gambling habit or shopping addiction.

You may decide that you're so in love that you're willing to marry an overspender, said Laura Tarbox, a Newport Beach financial planner. But having that information might cause you to handle your finances differently, keeping your accounts separate, for example, so that the unencumbered spouse doesn't end up liable for debts he or she had no hand in creating.

"They won't let businesses merge without financial disclosures," Tessina said. "There's no law saying that you have to do that when you get married, but it should be a standard requirement so that you both know where you're at."

Set your goals

Next, you need to talk about the way you want to live and what you want to achieve.

Those conversations need to be specific, Tessina said.

"It's one thing to say that you both want a house. But one of you might be thinking about a little condo and the other wants a three-story home with a yard," she said.

Shared goals keep partners from blaming each other if things don't quite go as planned, said Lorraine Steen, a Miami Beach mother of two.

After Steen and her husband bought a house two years ago, they were dismayed to see prices tumble in the real estate bust. But they didn't take it out on each other because they had already agreed not to second-guess themselves.

Even on their honeymoon, they established rules about spending: If they agreed that a purchase made sense, they wouldn't fret later about whether they could have gotten it cheaper elsewhere or at another time.

"You can never go back and say 'I told you so.' Once we buy something, we enjoy it and move forward," Steen said.

Who does what?

After you understand how you feel about money and what your priorities are, it's time to get practical. How are you going to pay the bills?

Some couples choose to merge their checking and savings accounts and pay bills out of just one pot. Others divvy up expenses, and each pays certain bills. Some couples choose a "yours, mine and ours" approach, where they have a joint account that's fed with money from both to pay shared bills, but each keeps smaller separate accounts too.

The right answer can be as individual as the couple.

When Mark and Maria Wilson got married 20 years ago, for instance, they were fresh out of college and barely scraping by. They merged what little money they had because there wasn't enough to keep in separate accounts. No one could spend a dime without consulting the other.

About 15 years of doing that kept them on the same page, says Mark, a certified financial planner who works with Tarbox. The Wilsons could now afford to keep separate accounts, but don't feel they need to.

In contrast, when Lorraine and Joseph Steen married four years ago, they were both in their mid-30s and accustomed to handling their own finances, so they kept it that way.

A year later, the couple had their first child and bought a house. Suddenly, completely separate accounts didn't work.

They opened a third checking account to pay all the joint household expenses. They still keep their own accounts so they can maintain a certain level of fiscal autonomy.

"We were so used to doing our own thing, merging accounts was a whole new world for us," Lorraine said.

Get it in writing

Prenuptial agreements are written contracts laying out the division of assets and future earnings if a marriage falls apart.

Some people consider these documents so unromantic that they swear they would never marry anyone who even suggested such a thing.

But prenups make sense for couples that come into marriage with children or widely disparate assets, said Eleanor Blayney, consumer advocate for the Certified Financial Planners Board of Standards and the founder of Directions, a financial planning firm focused on women.

"They can take money out of the relationship, so there are no nagging questions, like 'Hmm, I wonder if he married me for my money?' " she said. "By recognizing that there is a financial aspect to a relationship, they can spell out that that's not what the relationship is about."

Family law attorney Ike Vanden Kykel said the contracts are almost always enforceable in court. The one caveat: Prenuptial agreements divide only income and assets. They don't deal with child custody issues.

In second-marriage situations, the agreements can be helpful to flesh out a host of sticky concerns such as who pays to educate the kids and the rights of a surviving spouse in the event of one's death.

Consider the kids

Planning to have children? That begets a whole series of money discussions.

For instance, will you want one partner to stay home while the kids are young? If so, who? And how will you handle money matters then? After all, while that partner may not bring home a paycheck, they're still contributing to the family well-being. If they don't have an income, does that mean they lose their "mad money" too?

With older couples, the practical issues get even more complicated, Tarbox said. You not only have to talk about how you'll pay your ongoing bills, you have to discuss the assets and debts each of you have coming into the marriage and whether you want to co-mingle those assets or keep them separate.

If you both have kids, will you share the cost of their upbringing and college, or do you intend to handle your respective kids' bills from the money you hold separately? You should also consider how you each feel about supporting your offspring as adults. Do you want to help them buy houses? Would you bail them out of crushing credit card debt? Under what circumstances could you see them moving back in?

There's no pat answer. It's just better to consider the possibilities before you marry rather than after.

Estate planning gets dicey too. You may want to leave your assets to your respective children, for example, but what happens to the surviving spouse when one of you dies? Does he or she lose access to the deceased partner's pension and savings? Could they lose control over the house?

"Everybody talks about marriage in terms of love and romance," Graff of HomeEconomist.com said. "But, ultimately, it's a legal and binding contract that affects property. It's important to know where the person is coming from and make sure you can live with whatever they are bringing to the table."

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-cover-love-money14-2010feb14,0,6454842.column

Good article.  I still have no idea why gays want to get married considering articles like this. 

I have buddies who have been in war and tell me that getting shot at is nothing compared to divorce court and getting bankrupted by some greedy bitch with a spending addiction. 


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on February 14, 2010, 07:35:24 AM
Good article.  I still have no idea why gays want to get married considering articles like this. 

I have buddies who have been in war and tell me that getting shot at is nothing compared to divorce court and getting bankrupted by some greedy bitch with a spending addiction. 

Are you really that daft?  The push for gay marriage is not really about marriage per se, it is about the desire for equal treatment under the law.*  That is something every American citizen should easily grasp be they male/female, older, disabled, Asian, Jewish, an interracial couple, gay or lesbian, etc.  It’s not that complicated.

Believe it or not many gay people have zero interest in getting married, but they want the legal right to do so because what is available to one group of citizens should be available to all.


*The 14th amendment's Equal Protection Clause requires states to provide equal protection under the law to all people within their jurisdictions.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 14, 2010, 07:36:38 AM
Are you really that daft?  The push for gay marriage is not really about marriage per se, it is about the desire for equal treatment under the law.*  That is something every American citizen should easily grasp be they male/female, older, disabled, Asian, Jewish, an interracial couple, gay or lesbian, etc.  It’s not that complicated.

Believe it or not many gay people have zero interest in getting married, but they want the legal right to do so because what is available to one group of citizens should be available to all.


*The 14th amendment's Equal Protection Clause requires states to provide equal protection under the law to all people within their jurisdictions.

It was a sarcastic joke.  But like the old saying goes - be careful what you ask for . . . . . ;D  ;D  ;D


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: drkaje on February 14, 2010, 08:40:00 AM
Are you really that daft?  The push for gay marriage is not really about marriage per se, it is about the desire for equal treatment under the law.*  That is something every American citizen should easily grasp be they male/female, older, disabled, Asian, Jewish, an interracial couple, gay or lesbian, etc.  It’s not that complicated.

Believe it or not many gay people have zero interest in getting married, but they want the legal right to do so because what is available to one group of citizens should be available to all.


*The 14th amendment's Equal Protection Clause requires states to provide equal protection under the law to all people within their jurisdictions.

It didn't become about equal protection under the law until California created two classes of gays, IMO. Up to and including that point the whole movement's only purpose was to 'normalize' homosexuality in our culture through redefining marriage. You really have to wonder what kind of self-esteem issues people are dealing with where cultural approval means that much.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 14, 2010, 08:44:44 AM
It didn't become about equal protection under the law until California created two classes of gays, IMO. Up to and including that point the whole movement's only purpose was to 'normalize' homosexuality in our culture through redefining marriage. You really have to wonder what kind of self-esteem issues people are dealing with where cultural approval means that much.

Like Chris Rock says, "If I say I'm gay, I cant get married and wont have to go to Iraq? . . . . SIGN ME UP FOR THAT!"


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: drkaje on February 14, 2010, 01:43:17 PM
Like Chris Rock says, "If I say I'm gay, I cant get married and wont have to go to Iraq? . . . . SIGN ME UP FOR THAT!"

Guys like me, who will never re-marry, should be able to sell our marriage rights to the highest bidder. :)


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 15, 2010, 05:09:47 AM
Guys like me, who will never re-marry, should be able to sell our marriage rights to the highest bidder. :)

I know so many men who have been destroyed by divorce due to these selfish, self centered, lazy, miserable bitches.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on April 09, 2010, 08:43:31 PM
As a Hiring Filter, Credit Checks Draw Questions
By ANDREW MARTIN

In defending employers’ use of credit checks as part of the hiring process, Eric Rosenberg of the TransUnion credit bureau paints a sobering picture.

Retailers lose more than $30 billion a year because of employee theft, he says. Workplace violence costs employers $55 million a year in lost wages. A third of employees provide bogus information on their résumés.

Screening the backgrounds of employees “is critical to protect the safety of Connecticut residents in their homes and offices, in their cars and in all other places they travel,” Mr. Rosenberg testified to Connecticut legislators in February 2009, explaining why TransUnion markets its credit reports to employers.

Trouble is, researchers say there is no evidence showing that people with weak credit are more likely to be bad employees or to steal from their bosses, a fact that Mr. Rosenberg himself later admitted.

“At this point we don’t have any research to show any statistical correlation between what’s in somebody’s credit report and their job performance or their likelihood to commit fraud,” he said in separate testimony to Oregon legislators in January.

With millions of Americans nursing damaged credit reports after a bruising recession, some lawmakers are seeking to limit the use of credit reports as a factor in hiring.

Legislators in more than a dozen states have introduced bills to curb the use of credit checks during the hiring process, and three states have passed such laws.

At the federal level, Representative Steve Cohen, Democrat of Tennessee, is pursuing his own legislation that would prohibit employers nationwide from using credit checks to discriminate in hiring.

Supporters of such laws say they are necessary because an increasing number of employers are doing credit checks even though there is no proof that bad credit is a marker of risky employees.

Furthermore, they say the practice unfairly tars the huge pool of people whose credit was damaged by layoffs, medical bills or other factors beyond their control. They also say it disproportionately screens out minorities.

“Bernie Madoff had a pretty good credit score,” said Matthew Lesser, a Connecticut state representative who introduced a bill early last year that would have limited employers’ use of credit reports.

“And yet there is this consistent message that if you have a bad credit score, there is something wrong with you.”

Jerry K. Palmer, a psychology professor at Eastern Kentucky University, said his studies, though relatively small, found no correlation between the quality of an employee’s credit report and that worker’s job performance or likelihood to quit.

He said he was not aware of any studies that showed a correlation between poor credit and employee fraud or violence. But he noted that more research was needed to show what credit reports could predict.

Even so, the industry that sells credit checks has remained firm, mounting a counterattack against legislation with some success.

Bills introduced in California, Maryland and Connecticut, for example, have been stalled amid opposition from credit bureaus and other businesses.

In arguing against the legislation in Connecticut, Mr. Rosenberg, director of state government relations for TransUnion, testified, “This restriction could jeopardize the health and safety of many Connecticut residents who have come to rely on safe and secure environments, and risks the financial status of businesses across the state.”

Mr. Rosenberg did not return messages seeking comment. A spokesman for TransUnion, Steven Katz, reiterated the company’s stance that credit reports were a valuable tool for employers.

Several other large credit bureaus also suggest in their marketing materials that credit checks are an important security measure for companies. “Every time you hire a new employee, you put a lot on the line,” an Experian brochure reads. “The wrong decision could jeopardize your firm’s assets, reputation or security.”

Kristine Snyder, a spokeswoman for Experian, said the ability to assess risk was important for business owners, particularly those running small companies, given the level of employee fraud. She said the Association of Certified Fraud Examiners found that important indicators of potential fraud were employees living above their means and those experiencing financial difficulties.

“Employers should have information available to them that protects their businesses from catastrophic losses so that workers can continue to stay employed and remain productive,” she said...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/10/business/10credit.html?hp=&pagewanted=all


Title: Pay your debts!
Post by: BayGBM on April 14, 2010, 11:09:47 AM
Q:  A close friend lent me some money she received in an inheritance. I have paid her back what I could over time yet still owe more than half. In the ensuing months, she developed a serious drug problem, lost her house and job and is receiving treatment at a halfway house. She is calling now and demanding that I immediately repay the balance. I cannot right now, without going into retirement savings. I have also been advised by her family not to give her any money, because she may use it on drugs. What is my moral responsibility here?  NAME WITHHELD


A: If you truly cannot repay your friend immediately, the question is moot. But the way you have phrased it seems faintly self-serving, hinting that it would be virtuous, almost saintly, to ignore your debt. You can adhere to the original agreement to repay gradually, but repay you must, her current condition notwithstanding. She is an adult. No court has found her unfit to make decisions, even bad decisions, about her own life. It would be paternalistic, if benignly intended, to refuse to return her money because you are wary of how she would spend it.

I do admire your concern for your friend’s well-being and suggest that you consult with the halfway house. It is apt to have had experience with similar situations. If your friend agreed to various terms, including financial restrictions, as a condition of enrollment, there could be a way for you to put this money into escrow — that is, to repay it without doing harm.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: Doug_Steele on April 17, 2010, 08:33:04 AM
Guys like me, who will never re-marry, should be able to sell our marriage rights to the highest bidder. :)

That is one of the best ideas that i have ever heard of.  ;)


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: drkaje on April 17, 2010, 08:37:11 AM
That is one of the best ideas that i have ever heard of.  ;)

My rights would be on E-bay with a reserve of $12M. :)


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: Doug_Steele on April 17, 2010, 08:38:49 AM
My rights would be on E-bay with a reserve of $12M. :)

I would sell mine for a cool 25k and there ya go.  ;)


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: drkaje on April 17, 2010, 08:48:04 AM
I would sell mine for a cool 25k and there ya go.  ;)

Fuck that shit!! Gays act like marriage is the most important thing on earth. There's no way I'm selling my rights cheap.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: Doug_Steele on April 17, 2010, 09:22:10 AM
Fuck that shit!! Gays act like marriage is the most important thing on earth. There's no way I'm selling my rights cheap.

You make another great point! They are making a big deal out of marriage and it really blows....I would sell mine for about 10 Million.  ;)


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on May 02, 2010, 06:54:01 AM
Employer credit checks can irk workers
Carolyn Said, Chronicle Staff Writer
  
Does having bad credit make you a bad worker?

That's a pivotal question for some job hunters. Companies increasingly are asking prospective employees to submit to credit checks. Amid a brutal recession, people who racked up bills while they were unemployed or lost their homes to foreclosure say they're discriminated against when they look for a job.

"In today's economy, the last thing you want is to create any more hurdles for employees to get a job," said state Assemblyman Tony Mendoza, D-Norwalk (Los Angeles County). "In my opinion, a credit report does not determine a person's work ethic or trustworthiness. If employers want to see who people really are, a background check will take care of that."

Mendoza is sponsoring AB482, which would restrict employer credit checks except for jobs that involve handling money, other assets or personal information and also meet other conditions, such as being managerial or in law enforcement. A previous Mendoza bill on the same topic passed the California Legislature last year but was vetoed by Republican Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger as a "job killer."

Other lawmakers also are targeting employment credit checks. Oregon, Washington and Hawaii have restricted the practice. Rep. Steve Cohen, D-Tenn., has introduced federal legislation to amend the Fair Credit Reporting Act to stop companies from using credit checks as part of the hiring process. Currently, the act requires employers to get permission from applicants before running their credit, but many say they feel they'll be penalized if they refuse.

Businesses and credit bureaus oppose the bills.

"Credit information can reveal patterns that may present an unreasonable risk to businesses," said a letter opposing Mendoza's bill authored by the National Federation of Independent Business' California office in Sacramento and co-signed by a range of other business associations. "Employee theft is a growing problem. ... We believe this bill unduly restricts the ability of businesses to use all legally available information in employment decisions."

Showing responsibility

Rick Harper, vice president of program services at Consumer Credit Counseling of San Francisco, said credit history can be predictive of how responsible someone is.

"Given two candidates who are equally qualified, sometimes it's a weighing factor," he said. "If you've got debt problems, you may not really concentrate on what you're doing, if you're worried the telephone will ring and a creditor will call."

About 60 percent of employers said they conduct credit checks on some job applicants, according to a 2009 survey by the Society for Human Resource Management. That was up from 43 percent in 2006 and 25 percent in 1998.

Julie Lupian, 28, a front desk clerk at the Homewood Suites in Oakland, is among 34 workers there who must reapply for their jobs because the hotel is under new management. Originally, all the workers were asked to submit to credit checks; after their union objected, that was changed to just workers who handle money, which includes Lupian.

"My husband lost his job (as a baker) a year ago and we lost our house, so our credit report now is bad," she said Thursday as her two young sons played nearby at a union rally outside the hotel.

She thinks her six years at Homewood, working her way up from a housekeeping position, should outweigh the credit hit from the foreclosure. She recently returned to work after having a baby three months ago, and is now her family's primary breadwinner.

"The practices we're following are sound and consistent legally," said Rick Gabrielsen, president of Kupuna Hospitality LLC, the new management company.

Racial bias alleged

Mendoza and others opposed to employment credit checks say the practice discriminates against blacks, Latinos and lower-income people, who tend to have worse credit, and say credit reports can be inaccurate.

"They are very imprecise, crude arbitrary measures, riddled with errors," said Joe Ridout, consumer services manager with Consumer Action, a San Francisco advocacy group. "They are particularly misleading in a time of high unemployment. A credit check is no more predictive of job performance than someone's hat size or favorite hockey team."

Credit experts say the practice is yet another reason consumers should pay close attention to monitoring their credit, getting free credit reports at least annually, disputing any errors and taking steps to improve their score.

"How long you're penalized (for an event like a foreclosure or bankruptcy) depends on what you do to re-establish yourself as creditworthy," Harper said. "If you're proactive and address issues, there are things you can do to put yourself back very quickly in 24 to 36 months."

Consistent, on-time monthly payments top that list.

Ken Lin, CEO of Credit Karma, a San Francisco company that lets consumers view their credit scores, had some additional tips.

"Don't overextend," he said. "Don't have too many credit card balances - spend less than 30 percent of your credit card limits. Don't apply for too many products at one time unless you're house shopping or car shopping. Getting six credit cards in two months shows some level of desperation. The longer you keep your accounts open, the better off you are."


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on July 12, 2010, 02:21:29 PM
More Americans' Credit Scores Sink to New Lows
by Eileen AJ Connelly

The credit scores of millions more Americans are sinking to new lows.

Figures provided by FICO Inc. show that 25.5 percent of consumers — nearly 43.4 million people — now have a credit score of 599 or below, marking them as poor risks for lenders. It's unlikely they will be able to get credit cards, auto loans or mortgages under the tighter lending standards banks now use.

Because consumers relied so heavily on debt to fuel their spending in recent years, their restricted access to credit is one reason for the slow economic recovery.

"I don't get paid for loan applications, I get paid for closings," said Ritch Workman, a Melbourne, Fla., mortgage broker. "I have plenty of business, but I'm struggling to stay open."

FICO's latest analysis is based on consumer credit reports as of April. Its findings represent an increase of about 2.4 million people in the lowest credit score categories in the past two years. Before the Great Recession, scores on FICO's 300-to-850 scale weren't as volatile, said Andrew Jennings, chief research officer for FICO in Minneapolis. Historically, just 15 percent of the 170 million consumers with active credit accounts, or 25.5 million people, fell below 599, according to data posted on Myfico.com.

More are likely to join their ranks. It can take several months before payment missteps actually drive down a credit score. The Labor Department says about 26 million people are out of work or underemployed, and millions more face foreclosure, which alone can chop 150 points off an individual's score. Once the damage is done, it could be years before this group can restore their scores, even if they had strong credit histories in the past.

On the positive side, the number of consumers who have a top score of 800 or above has increased in recent years. At least in part, this reflects that more individuals have cut spending and paid down debt in response to the recession. Their ranks now stand at 17.9 percent, which is notably above the historical average of 13 percent, though down from 18.7 percent in April 2008 before the market meltdown.

There's also been a notable shift in the important range of people with moderate credit, those with scores between 650 and 699. The new data shows that this group comprised 11.9 percent of scores. This is down only marginally from 12 percent in 2008, but reflects a drop of roughly 5.3 million people from its historical average of 15 percent.

This group is significant because it may feel the effects of lenders' tighter credit standards the most, said FICO's Jennings. Consumers on the lowest end of the scale are less likely to try to borrow. However, people with mid-range scores that had been eligible for credit before the meltdown are looking to buy homes or cars but finding it hard to qualify for affordable loans.

Workman has seen this firsthand.

A customer with a score of 679 recently walked away from buying a house because he could not get the best interest rate on a $100,000 mortgage. Had his score been 680, the rate he was offered would have been a half-percent lower. The difference was only about $31 per month, but over a 30-year mortgage would have added up to more than $11,000.

"There was nothing derogatory on his credit report," Workman said of the customer. He had, however, recently gotten an auto loan, which likely lowered his score.

Studies have shown FICO scores are generally reliable predictions of consumer payment behavior, but Workman's experience points to one drawback of credit scoring: the automated underwriting programs lenders use can't always differentiate between two people with the same score. Another consumer might have a 679 score because of several late payments, which could indicate he or she is a bigger repayment risk. But a computer program that depends just on score won't consider those details.

On a broader scale, some of the spike in foreclosures came about because homeowners were financially irresponsible, while others lost their jobs and could no longer pay their mortgages. Yet both reasons for foreclosures have the same impact on a borrower's FICO score.

In the past too much credit was handed out based on scores alone, without considering how much debt consumers could pay back, said Edmund Tribue, a senior vice president in the credit risk practice at MasterCard Advisors. Now the ability to repay the debt is a critical part of the lending decision.

Workman still thinks credit scores alone play too big a role. "The pendulum has swung too far," he said. "We absolutely swung way too far in the liberal lending, but did we have to swing so far back the other way?"



Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on September 03, 2010, 10:29:39 PM
How Debt Can Destroy a Budding Relationship
By RON LIEBER

Nobody likes unpleasant surprises, but when Allison Brooke Eastman’s fiancé found out four months ago just how high her student loan debt was, he had a particularly strong reaction: he broke off the engagement within three days.

Ms. Eastman said she had told him early on in their relationship that she had over $100,000 of debt. But, she said, even she didn’t know what the true balance was; like a car buyer who focuses on only the monthly payment, she wrote 12 checks a year for about $1,100 each, the minimum possible. She didn’t focus on the bottom line, she said, because it was so profoundly depressing.

But as the couple got closer to their wedding day, she took out all the paperwork and it became clear that her total debt was actually about $170,000. “He accused me of lying,” said Ms. Eastman, 31, a San Francisco X-ray technician and part-time photographer who had run up much of the balance studying for a bachelor’s degree in photography. “But if I was lying, I was lying to myself, not to him. I didn’t really want to know the full amount.”

At a time when even people with no graduate degrees, like Ms. Eastman, often end up six figures in the hole and people getting married for the second time have loads of debt from their earlier lives, it should come as no surprise that debt can bust up engagements. Even when couples disclose their debt in detail, it poses a series of challenges.

When, exactly, are you supposed to reveal a debt of this size during the courtship? Earlier than you’d disclose, say, a chronic illness?

Even if disclosure doesn’t render you unmarriageable, tricky questions linger. If one person brings a huge debt to a relationship, who is ultimately responsible for making good on the obligation? And if it’s $170,000, isn’t the more solvent partner going to resent that debt over time no matter how early the disclosure comes? After all, it will profoundly affect every financial decision, from buying a home to how many children to have.

These were the questions that weighed on Kerrie Tidwell. A third-year student at the Medical College of Georgia and an aspiring emergency room doctor, she doesn’t worry so much about her ability to pay back her loans.

Ms. Tidwell, 26, is involved in a serious relationship with Stefan Kogler, an architect who is a native of Austria and living in Vienna. To Europeans, who often pay little or nothing toward their university studies, the idea of going deeply into debt to get educated is, well, foreign.

Ms. Tidwell feels no guilt about the $250,000 in debt she will probably run up, including some from a master’s degree program she completed in London, where she and Mr. Kogler met. “I didn’t acquire it because I go out and shop a lot,” she said. “It’s because I’m doing something that I’ll love for the rest of my life.”

Still, if she and Mr. Kogler are going to move in together and get engaged, she wants their financial arrangements to be clear and fair. But how do you define fair when you’re bringing a quarter of a million dollars in debt to a relationship?

Mr. Kogler, 30, said he’s not so worried about it. “In the long run, it will equal out,” he said. “In the short run, you have to support each other, and I will support her as much as I can.”

His stoicism is admirable. It’s all the more so, given that if he moves to the United States permanently, he’ll probably lose the chance to run his family’s business in Austria. Supporting Ms. Tidwell as she begins to pay back her loans also means he doesn’t have the freedom to, say, make a career change that involves a big pay cut. “I know he has his own dreams, and they will require money,” Ms. Tidwell said. “Will my debt take away from that?”

Lisa J. B. Peterson, a financial planner with Lantern Financial in Boston, specializes in counseling young couples and has heard this story before. About half the people she sees are both bringing significant debt to the relationship, and about a quarter of the others have one person who has a pile of student loans.

When I told her about Ms. Tidwell and Mr. Kogler, one of her first suggestions was for them to make sure that Mr. Kogler did not have to make all the compromises when they prepared a joint household budget. “They can make some kind of sacrifice so that a goal of his is achieved, too,” she said.

Then there’s the question of how to plan for the unknowns. “What would happen if I got hurt and couldn’t practice or got sued for malpractice?” Ms. Tidwell asked.

While insurance (which is itself expensive, alas) can reduce this anxiety, it can’t cover the desire to stay home with children. Ms. Tidwell is resolute about having children and working full time, but Sheila G. Riesel, a matrimonial lawyer and partner with Blank Rome in Manhattan, said Ms. Tidwell ought to consider potential extreme circumstances as well. “It could happen that she wants to be a stay-at-home spouse for a while. What if she has triplets?” Ms. Riesel asked. “All of this is worthy of discussion.”

The problem is, most couples never get this far in the premarriage money talks. One advantage to prenuptial agreements is that they force the issue, even if it does turn the talks into a negotiation. “At least half the time, people are shocked at what the other person’s attitude is,” said Susan Reach Winters, a matrimonial lawyer with Budd Larner in Short Hills, N.J. “You ask how they’d handle it if someone wanted to stay home after having a baby, and at the same time they give completely different answers.”

Legally, it is likely that any leftover debt that Ms. Tidwell brought to a marriage would remain hers alone after a divorce. But Ms. Reach Winters said that if she were representing someone like Ms. Tidwell’s boyfriend in a divorce, she would argue that he deserved a sort of refund for everything he paid toward household expenses even if Ms. Tidwell were making the loan payments out of her salary alone. Whether a state’s laws back up this argument may be beside the point; any lawyer can use it as a battering ram in settlement negotiations.

Ms. Riesel also said couples needed to be wary of states like New York, where an advanced degree acquired during the marriage, and the earning power it brings, are treated as assets to be divided.

While Ms. Tidwell seems resolute about cordoning off her debt and paying it off with money she alone earns, she and anyone like her probably ought to codify that intent in a legal agreement, even at the point they decide to move in with someone. And this only gets more complicated (and the agreements more crucial) in second marriages, where people may come to the relationship with assets, sole responsibility for a mortgage and a couple of college tuitions. Better to write it all down, no matter how clear the laws may be in your state.

In some ways, Mr. Kogler has it easy. There aren’t a lot of unemployed doctors. So he and Ms. Tidwell should be able to pay back her loans (albeit over 20 or 30 years) as long as they live relatively modestly. He might feel differently if he were dating a lawyer with similar debt but less certain prospects, or an X-ray technician who would really like to be a photographer.

Still, all of this raises the question: At what point do you have a moral obligation to disclose your indebtedness during courtship? On the eighth date? When you get to third base? In your eHarmony online dating profile?

“It’s a sliding scale,” said Ms. Riesel, the Manhattan lawyer. “It depends on the person and the nature of the relationship.” Ms. Winters, the Short Hills divorce lawyer, said it might depend on your definition of a serious relationship. “But I wouldn’t wait until you were signing leases for apartments or picking out engagement rings.”

Ms. Eastman in San Francisco says she knows that now. “What would I have done differently, besides bringing a copy of my credit report on the first date?” she said, with a rueful chuckle. “I would have been more responsible.”

And while she hasn’t dated anyone seriously enough in recent months to get to the point of disclosure, she says it’s probably necessary by the eighth or 10th date. “I know that now,” she said. “But it had never occurred to me that this is something that might end up being a deal-breaker.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/04/your-money/04money.html?scp=1&sq=Allison%20Brooke%20Eastman&st=cse


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on September 08, 2010, 10:04:40 AM
'Til Debt Do Us Part

$170,000 in debt and no advanced degree (MD, PhD, MBA) suggests an extraordinary level of whimsy. In Asia, courtship is very open about financial prospects---especially for men, obviously---and such a debt would be the poison pill for most serious relationships.
JK
Berkeley


Absolutely absurd. If you don't know your exact financial situation, and compound it by not revealing it to a prospective spouse, sorry, I agree with the man who broke off the engagement. My wife and I (of almost 3 decades), knew going in what our respective financial situation was at the time as well as our life histories. Not only that, but our respective views on money, money management and where we wanted to be these three decades later were almost exactly the same and has stood us in good stead all these years. Failure to manage your finances is a very clear indicator you cannot manage other parts of your life very well either. It brings up the immediate question, what else in your life do you not know or did not manage very well?
Tom
Midwest



I have to say, I would probably not marry someone with six-figure debts of any kind unless perhaps it was for med school or something. Now that I have been married 10 years, I realize how much these things really matter. When you are young and in love, you don't think about it too much....
Jen
New York


A large monetary debt is like any other problem one might bring into a relationship. Would you marry a guy who has only one leg? How about AIDS? Would it make a difference to you how he became HIV positive?
Brenda
DC



I graduated in May from a "Top-10" law school with $190,000 in debt. I'm also currently engaged. My fiancee is in her third year of medical school, and when she graduates next year she will have an additional $350,000 in debt.

Not for a moment did either of us hesitate before getting engaged because our debt would be so great. Nor will either of us hesitate before getting married next July. Why? Because we LOVE EACH OTHER.

Getting married shouldn't be thought of as a financial transaction, even though it does have financial consequences. The only reason anyone should be getting married is they want to spend the rest of their time on earth in partnership with the person they love, and an outstanding education loan should have NO impact on that. This is especially true because under the new federal Income Based Repayment plan (IBR), you will never have to pay more than a certain low percentage of your income, and all loans will be forgiven after a number of years. Education debt will not substantially affect your standard of living.

So if this shmo really called off his engagement just because his fiancee had debt from medical school, the relationship was doomed from the start, because 170,000 U.S. Dollars was apparently more important to him than his love for her.
Josh
California


When people borrow this kind of money for an education, one must also realize that one has to pay it back in after tax dollars. One would have to make $250,000 to $300,000 to pay a $175,000 debt. This is not taking into account any housing, healthcare, auto, food or basic entertainment services. This is a big hole to dig out of if one could. I would have broken off the engagement also.
SGR
New York



The man in the relationship with the med student sounds like a good man. The other guy who broke up with his Fiance sounds like a shallow excuse for a man. Love is love. If he loved her enough to ask her to marry him, than he should love her enough to understand her mistake. I wonder if he has made any mistakes in his life? That girl can do better.
Jen
Los Angleles


170K for a degree in photography and now working as an X-Ray Tech. So easy to compare to the level headed Ms. Tisdale.
Jack
Connecticut



I think the way people look at money reveals a lot about the way they will treat their boyfriend/girlfriend or spouse. I also think that that much debt for anything other than an advanced degree is a huge red flag for mental illness or addiction issues.

I would run screaming from someone with >100,000 in debt for anything besides an advanced degree. Actually, I think that it was sort of misleading in this article to talk about people who make a rational choice to take on a lot of debt in order to become doctors or lawyers. In all likelihood, those people will be fine or even wealthy in 10-15 years. However, most people with that much debt aren't in med school. And, I think that it's very smart to be wary of large amounts of unnecessary debt.

Employers perform credit checks for a reason -- to see if the prospective employees are responsible and trustworthy. If you are going to marry someone and possibly have kids with them, shouldn't you also worry about these things?
Ann
New York


My husband and I both brought student loans into our marriage. I knew what mine were, he didn't really pay attention to his. It became stressful when all of a sudden a bill for repayment would arrived that we hadn't budgeted for because he was so irresponsible. My debt came from Medical School and while I made a good salary as a primary care physician, it wasn't great and we were always struggling to make ends meet, which was not at all what we expected, being two professionals.

Then the unforseen happened, I became chronically ill and later, my husband died. Our debts were paid off prior to that, but we hadn't been able to have as much savings set aside because of our school debts. That was frustrating enough, but now I am only able to work part time. So even being a physician isn't going to guarantee a satisfactory income.
Each party should know exactly what they owe before they get engaged. And then agree how to repay the debt.

I believe that if one is going to need to have student loans for education, one should choose the least expensive school that will provide them a quality education. But young adults seem to think the sky is the limit and that debt will somehow get paid off - "later". It doesn't seem like real money until that first payment is due.

Keep in mind that life throws curve balls. Your best laid plans may never be realized. If Medicare makes more cuts, hospitals may replace the bulk of their ER staff with PAs and Nurse practitioners. Having "MD" after your name doesn't promise big salaries and job guarantees anymore.
Nancy
Denver



The problem is not just the debt, but what debt says about how the person is going to approach money throughout the relationship.

When my wife and I were engaged and approaching our wedding day, one day she told me that she had a bunch of credit card debt -- almost $40,000 on almost no income. I had been saving for awhile, for the wedding, a honeymoon, and down payment on a house. We were able to get rid of the debt, but there was a fair amount of lingering resentment that I was presented with this only at the last minute, and it really wiped out a lot of scrimping and saving on my part to put that money away.

Over the 10 years we've been married, though, I've seen time and again the same patterns of dealing with money that got her into trouble to begin with -- buying things and not paying attention to how much they cost, buying things to feel better, buying things we don't need, buying things we already have, buying things because her friends have them, wanting vacations and cars we can't afford, buying buying buying. It's like a drug addiction. It will probably continue to undermine our future, hobble our retirement, serve as a source of stress and friction, and limit our options for the rest of our lives together.
Pierce
Oregon


We have only heard Ms. Eastman's side of the story so we don't know for sure if she told him early on (as she claims) that she had $100K in debt. It's too bad her fiance wasn't or refused to be interviewed. But if you add up her not being entirely truthful about her total debt and her apparent lack of common sense in racking up $200K of student loans for a bachelor's degree in a field that doesn't offer that many highly paid positions, and a field in which she is only working part-time or so she claims, I can understand why the man bailed. If she had been truthful about what she owed and had a viable plan for employment or business ownership to repay the debt, he may have been more sympathetic. I think Ms. Eastman expects to be taken care of by a man and her former fiance wasn't having it. Maybe she'll find an older wealthy man to indulge her. Is Letterman looking for more interns?
Lynn
DC


http://bucks.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/03/til-debt-do-us-part/



Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on October 06, 2010, 02:33:06 PM
Q: I am in a committed relationship with the most honest, ethical woman I have ever known, but we have a financial dispute. We agreed to split the cost of a vacation. She bought both of our airline tickets with bonus miles acquired through her credit card but wanted me to pay her the monetary value of the ticket she got for me. It left a bad taste in my mouth to pay for something that cost her no money. Is there a right and wrong in this matter? NAME WITHHELD,WEST PALM BEACH, FLA.


A: There is a right and a wrong in this matter: she is right, and you are wrong. You agreed to split these costs, and that’s what you did. How she covers her half is beside the point.

Those miles really are, in effect, money. She received them as incentive pay, in the form of a rebate, when she used her credit card. And they function as money because they are fungible: that is, they can be exchanged for goods or services. It doesn’t matter how she (legally) got them: paycheck, lottery, found in the trash. Just as it is not relevant how you acquired the money you used to pay for your share of the tickets: borrowed, inherited, won in a poker game. Money, or its equivalent, is money. Perhaps you would have been less vexed buying your ticket from the airline rather than giving your companion what might feel like your cash for her miles. I suggest you wash that bad taste out of your mouth with an apology and a bottle of Champagne shared with your estimable partner. And it doesn’t matter how you acquire the wine. Short of robbery.

 ;)


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: Ex Coelis on October 31, 2010, 07:17:17 PM
I shake my head when people talk about paying only the minimum payment on their credit cards while continuing to make large purchases

my arrangement is that my credit card is completely paid off every month automatically from the same account into which my pay is deposited

this works great when I'm out of the country or not paying attention to the calendar


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on November 07, 2010, 10:27:49 AM
Credit scores to be revised amid soaring mortgage defaults
Changes in consumer behavior mean that borrowers who were once considered outstanding credit risks may no longer be so today.
By Kenneth R. Harney

With foreclosures soaring — and homeowners with unblemished payment histories abruptly walking away from their houses with no warning to lenders — the two major producers of credit scores have begun changing how they evaluate consumers' risks of default. The revisions could affect you the next time you apply for a loan.

In late October, both Fair Isaac Corp., developer of the FICO score, which dominates the mortgage field, and VantageScore Solutions, a joint venture by the three national credit bureaus and marketer of the competing VantageScore, outlined modifications they were making to handle the vast credit disruptions caused by the housing bust, the recession, high unemployment and behavioral changes by consumers.

Overall, credit industry experts agree, consumer creditworthiness has deteriorated in the U.S. since 2006 — especially among what used to be considered the credit elite, people with the highest scores. For example, a study this year by VantageScore found that the probability of serious delinquency — defined as nonpayment for 90 days or more — had increased 417% among "super-prime" borrowers between June 2007 and June 2009. Default risk during the same period rose 406% for the second-highest-rated category of "prime" consumers, and nearly doubled for those at the "near prime" scoring level.

The driving force behind the score revisions, according to Sarah Davies, VantageScore's senior vice president for analytics and research, is the "significant change in consumer credit repayment behavior" that began during the housing bust and recession.

Not only are borrowers who previously were rated outstanding credit risks far more likely to default today, she said, but many homeowners are defying long-standing credit industry assumptions by going delinquent on their first mortgage payments while continuing to pay their credit card balances and second mortgages on time. Strategic defaults, or walkaways, by high-score borrowers also have been an unexpected development, she said.

To adjust its statistical models to these new realities, VantageScore says it conducted intensive research on 45 million active credit files obtained from the databases of its joint venture partners, Equifax, Experian and TransUnion. The research examined the same files — with personal identifiers removed — during set time periods between 2006 and 2009 to capture emerging behavioral patterns associated with defaults on various types of credit accounts. The resulting VantageScore 2.0, which is expected to be rolled out nationwide to lenders in January, focuses on the subtle warning signs of credit stress that might have been missed earlier and penalizes or rewards consumers with higher or lower risk scores than they would have received before.

Joanne Gaskin, director of mortgage scoring solutions for Fair Isaac, said her company's new FICO 8 Mortgage Score was based on similarly exhaustive research into consumer credit behavior changes over the last four years. When used by a lender to rate the risk of new applicants or existing mortgage customers, Gaskin says, the Mortgage Score is likely to be 15% to 25% more accurate in detecting signs of future default compared with the standard FICO model.

Though she would not discuss proprietary details about the early warning signs the new score monitors, Gaskin gave an example of how the new score might work: Say a borrower with a 720 FICO score has average balances on a first mortgage, home equity lines and other accounts that are higher than norms pinpointed by the revised scoring software. A 720 FICO is considered a good score by most mortgage lenders, often qualifying for favorable rates and terms. However, the same applicant might rate just a 680 FICO or lower if the lender used the new Mortgage Score. The lender would then have a choice: Reject the applicant, quote a higher interest rate on the mortgage or require a larger down payment.

Gaskin said the reverse could also occur: The FICO 8 Mortgage Score could come in higher than the standard FICO — indicating lower risk for the future — in situations where formerly troubled borrowers manage to put themselves back on a healthier credit track.

Experts in the credit industry say the new scoring efforts by Fair Isaac and VantageScore should prove to be a net positive for the housing and mortgage industries if they can do what they claim: spot subtle risk patterns and nascent hints of improvement.

But as a mortgage applicant you should know that your next score might not look anything like the score you thought you had. You might end up getting a better deal — or worse than you wanted — when lenders quote you rates and terms.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: DylanPG on November 15, 2010, 01:45:29 PM
I love how everyone in this country is conditioned to care about their FICO score and how some company "rates" you in life, like they're some moral judge on your character.  I used to be that way until you realize that having good credit is highly overrated.  Many people will ruin their finances trying to "afford" a good credit score.  Aside from gaining employment, all that having good credit does is allow you to go in debt.  Pay for your stuff with cash, you'll be way better off.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on November 15, 2010, 10:39:51 PM
Dylan:

If you choose to believe having a good credit score is “overrated” that is your prerogative, but your choice will not change the fact that the credit score you generate is based on your repayment history and use of the credit you already have.  It also tells potential creditors something about you that they really want to know: how likely is it that this person will repay me in a timely manner?

As explained previously in this thread, the credit score does not just determine whether or not you will be extended credit (for a car, home, boat, cell phone, credit card, etc.), it also determines how much credit you will be extended and how much interest you will be charged for that credit; if you have a low score you will be charged more.  :(

Similarly, employers now often screen job candidates via their credit score.  People with low scores are often rejected in favor of people with higher scores.  Finally, many other services that you never think about are tied to your credit score.  Car insurance is just one example; if you have a good score your insurance rates are lower.  Insurance companies don't talk about this, but it is true; it is true for a number of other vendors as well.

Computers have enabled the examination of conjunctive histories and all manner of number crunching; for better or worse the credit score is not going away.  It will be used more and more—not less.  You can acknowledge this reality and act accordingly or stick your head in the sand.  The choice is yours.  You and Thin Lizzy appear to be of the same mind.  Perhaps you can start a club (for people in credit score denial).  

Credit scores were the primary determining factor for giving out sub-prime loans. How'd that work out?

Going forward, I think you're going to see your beloved credit scores not meaning squat.

As for paying for your stuff with cash, if you ever plan to own a decent car, a home, or other significant amenities, well, good luck with that.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: DylanPG on November 16, 2010, 09:29:41 AM
I do understand and agree with some of your points on having good credit.  My main point is that most people should be less concerned with whether or not they can borrow money from "potential creditors" and rather learn to pay for things on their own.  A lot of people are far more worried about having a great credit score vs actually living within their means. 

As far as a house/car/etc... You can buy a house without using credit whatsoever - it's not easy but their are programs out there.  And for a car?  Save up money and buy a car outright.  You shouldn't have to spend 5-7 years paying off a depreciating asset.  If you have to, then you aren't living within your means.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on November 16, 2010, 04:17:25 PM
Given its potential to save or cost you money, people should indeed be “worried about having a great credit score.”  Paying attention to your score and living within one’s means are not mutually exclusive.

As for buying a house without credit whatsoever . . . good luck with that.   ::)

Save for the ultra wealthy, I do not know anyone who has done that.  Certainly, no one visiting a site like getbig is likely to do that so whom exactly are you trying to convince?


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: tallgerman on November 17, 2010, 02:11:37 AM
hot chix = bad credit

like law of gravity


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: DylanPG on November 17, 2010, 10:00:59 AM
I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, but it is definitely possible to buy a house without using credit.  You sound like you're in the credit repair business or something along those lines.  How about every time you see the word "credit", just replace it with "debt".  All of your posts on here seem to emphasize the same idea: that people need to stress out and make sure their credit score is high enough so that they can go in debt.

Having good credit is similar to fat people taking high blood pressure medicine.  All they're doing is going after the symptoms, rather than the problem - losing weight.  If people actually saved their money and planned for expenses, they wouldn't need to borrow money, put "emergencies" on a credit card, finance a car, etc.  Now I don't advocate that people not pay their bills and try to have a BAD credit score, but all the energy and focus that you/society puts on having a GOOD score would be better used to go towards learning how to budget and save and not rely on creditors and banks loaning you money.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on November 19, 2010, 07:05:05 AM
Five Best Strategies to Protect Your Credit Score Over the Holidays

When most of us do our holiday shopping, we're thinking about how to score that hot doorbuster deal on Black Friday, or we're trying to remember which size the kids are these days. What we're probably not thinking about is our credit score.

But your credit score is one of the most important components of your financial life, and it pays -- literally -- to guard it carefully, since the rates you pay on credit cards, car loans and even your mortgage are determined by that number. As a consumer, there are certain things you can do and choices you can make during the holiday shopping season that can keep your credit score from taking a beating.

"It's a very emotional time for a lot of people," points out Laura Creamer, financial education specialist at credit counseling group CredAbility in Atlanta. "They forget healthy [credit] habits from before," she says. But the financial choices you make when the malls are bedecked with festive accents and twinkling lights can have an impact on your credit score long after you've hauled that dried-out Christmas tree to the curb.

If you want to keep your credit score as healthy as possible this holiday season, take a look at these five ways you can do just that.

Know your limits

"Be sure you know what your credit limits are," advises Natalie Lohrenz, director of counseling at Consumer Credit Counseling Service of Orange County in Santa Ana, Calif. "A lot of people have had their credit limits lowered because the banks have all pulled back quite a bit." Unless you check your statements carefully, you might not have noticed that your credit limit's been lowered.

Keeping your limit in mind can help you keep your utilization low (more about that in the next section) and keep you from going over your credit limit, potentially incurring big charges as well as dragging down your credit score. You can get all your current credit information by ordering a copy of your credit report from the three major credit bureaus (Equifax, Experian and TransUnion), MyFICO.com or annualcreditreport.com (provided you haven't used this free service within the last year).

Don't max out your cards

A full 30% of your credit score is calculated based on your utilization ratio, which is basically how much of your available credit -- on each card individually, as well as in total -- has been spent at any given time. Having high utilization, or cards that are either near their limits or already maxed out, takes a steep toll on your credit score.

While some experts say you can get away with a utilization ratio of 30%, Barry Paperno, consumer operations manager for MyFICO.com, says the actual number for an optimal credit score is far lower. "On average, 7% is the ratio for high FICO achievers," he says.

When you're debating which card to use for a holiday purchase, Paperno says your utilization ratio should be a factor, especially if you plan to pay the balance in full (which would free you from being as concerned about the APR). If you're going to drop $500 on your purchases, all other things being equal, you want to reach for the card with the $5,000 worth of available credit instead of the one with just $1,000 of available credit.

Watch out for those store cards

Thinking about giving in to that store cashier's request to open a store credit card? "Keep in mind that if you're saving 10% on the purchase but you're paying 30% interest over six months, you're not going to be saving any money," says Paperno.

It's advice that can be easy for many of us to forget in the rush to finish our shopping and rack up as many discounts as possible. In the case of store cards, those discounts can hurt you a few ways. First, they might tempt you to overspend, and higher - and low limits, which means it's easier to max out the card and skew your utilization ratio into a score-unfriendly zone. And even if you don't get it, just applying for a card can ding you by a few points, adds CredAbility's Creamer, and a new credit account will pull down your score for around six months. If you sign up for a store card to get that discount, ask yourself this: Will you be wearing that scarf or playing with that electronic gadget come June? That's how long opening that card will impact your score.

Do big-ticket shopping in one fell swoop

We're all familiar with the commercials that show a person presenting a loved one with the keys to a shiny new car topped with a bow. If a grand gesture like this is in your plans for the year, do all your rate shopping within a two-week period to avoid lowering your credit score, says Creamer. That's because your score takes a slight hit every time you request credit, which includes asking for a rate from a bank, credit union or car dealership. The formula is "smart" enough to figure out that if you have a slew of requests at the same time for the same size loan, you're probably rate shopping, and it combines them into a single inquiry. But if you scatter those rate requests over a lengthier period, they'll each count individually, which could lower your score and hurt your chances of getting the best rate on those new wheels.

Avoid the payment-skipping option

Maybe you think your credit card issuer is being generous when it offers to let you skip a payment over the holidays. In reality, says Lohrenz, this action could wind up costing both you and your credit score big. When issuers offer this deal to you, they're not really cutting you a break; they're just racking up even more in interest charges that you'll owe them down the line.

If you're already right at your credit limit, this seemingly "helpful" offer could put you over your limit, triggering both fees and a negative impact on your credit score because your utilization ratio for that card will be upside-down. "Obviously, that's costing you money," Lohrenz says. Skipping payments might seem like a freebie, but it's not.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on November 24, 2010, 06:55:02 AM
Your Credit Score Matters More Than You Think
by Jim Wang

In many of my recent columns I've been writing a lot about credit reports and credit scores. Most of us don't need to be reminded of the importance of reviewing credit reports and fixing any errors, we know that keeping a clean and accurate credit report is important.

If you're one of the many Americans who already own your home and a car (or don't plan on buying either in the near future), you probably think that your credit score itself isn't that important. If you aren't getting a loan in the near future, why should you worry about your score? Unfortunately, your credit score is more important than you think and is being used by many institutions to help make decisions about you.

You "borrow" from a lot of institutions without explicitly borrowing money and those institutions often check your credit to decide if they want to do business with you. If you are currently renting where you live, your landlord almost certainly checked your credit history and used that to decide whether or not to rent to you.

If you have a good credit score, they probably asked for a smaller security deposit or reduced other fees. If you had a weaker score, or no score, they may have asked for more to offset the additional risk. If you're wondering what you borrowed from them, you borrowed the right to live in that home. The worst case for a landlord is to not be able to collect rent and be forced to go through the eviction process, which in some states can take many months. That's a risk they try to avoid and a credit report helps them do that.

If you're looking for a job, some employers are allowed to use your credit history to determine how safe of a candidate you are. While it's been shown that there's no relationship between a bad score and being untrustworthy, some employers, unless barred by law, are still using it to help them decide whether or not to hire a candidate. The last thing you want to do is have a missed payment cost you a job.

Those are just a few of the unexpected ways that a bad credit score can hurt you but fortunately you can do something about it. Be diligent about reviewing your credit reports and fixing any errors and inaccuracies. If you've been checking regularly and have seen no errors, keep up with it. Sometimes errors appear when you least expect them.

I've been reviewing my credit report for years and only just recently did I see a major problem (an unrelated account, which was behind on payments, appeared in my Experian report earlier this year), so stay on top of it. You can check your credit report for free at AnnualCreditReport.com.

If you're curious, there are ways for you to check your credit score for free if you're willing to sign up for some trials. I would avoid dealing with companies that aren't Fair Isaac Corporation (makers of the FICO score) or one of the three credit bureaus (Experian, Equifax, TransUnion). Fair Isaac's consumer facing company is MyFICO and you can often find plenty of MyFICO promotion codes.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: PRO_Crastinator on November 29, 2010, 12:56:23 PM
Some suckers are willing to get pussy out of debt only to get fucked themselves in the end.  Meaning, you'd be broke yourself before you ever get laid.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on January 24, 2011, 12:46:03 PM
New Twist: Your Credit Score Is a 'Ranking,' Not a 'Rating'
by Diane Tuman

If you're a responsible consumer and pay your bills on time, you don't run up exorbitant credit card debt, and you have a healthy credit mix, you probably assume your fabulous credit score of say, 760, is solid and safe. That is, until you go to apply for a home loan, or car loan and see that your credit score is actually more like 720 now. Or, maybe your credit score hasn't changed, but you are now denied a loan that you were able to get a year ago with that same, fabulous score.

So, what happened?

Yuliya Demyanyk, a senior research economist with the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland, provides this fascinating finding about credit scores:

Your credit score is not a rating of your credit worthiness, but rather a ranking of your credit worthiness compared to the rest of the U.S. population at a specific point in time.

In other words, when your credit score changes — even if your credit behavior doesn't change — it's because your rank order compared to the rest of the population has shifted. For example, if the rest of your fellow Americans are paying more of their bills faster than you, this will affect your rank and your score. Conversely, if your fellow Americans slip in their payments, your credit score and rank will rise. So, even if you do everything right, you are thrown into the mix with the rest of the population and your score/ranking is affected by what everyone else is doing.

Hidden Data Point — Credit Risk vs. Credit Worthiness

An additional component of your credit score is your credit worthiness. This is a data point that predicts the likeliness that you will pay your bills on time or fall behind in payments. You won't see this number since it's part of a credit-reporting bureau's secret, credit-scoring model, but this is important to lenders who make the assessment of whether to loan you the money. Like it or not, it is an indication of your level of risk to a lender: "What kind of track record does this person have in paying loans on time?"

Another thing to understand is that the relationship between credit score and credit risk is dynamic and changes over time. So the risk associated with a 700 score last year is not the same as the risk with a credit score of 700 this year. And it's risk that the lender fundamentally cares about, not the score.

Also, even though your credit score and credit worthiness might be stable, conditions beyond your control — market conditions, a bad recession — could affect everyone's credit worthiness, not just yours. This is certainly true today in our financial crisis that has affected major aspects of our economy — namely, jobs and housing. So, that fabulous credit score that got you loans in the past may have changed as the "bar" for a good score shifts upwards and out of reach as lenders pull in and loan less.

How Your Credit Score Is Calculated:

For the most part, credit scores are generated from one of three major credit bureaus – Equifax, Experian and TransUnion. Each of these bureaus collects credit information on you and then applies a statistical algorithm to calculate your credit score (the Fair Isaac Corporation was the first to create such a score which is why credit scores are still oftentimes referred to as FICO scores). Each of the bureau's scores will vary slightly because they each have their own proprietary methods to track customer credit behavior and use different methods for collecting data on you. Recently, the three bureaus have gotten together and created a common score call the VantageScore, which is common across the three bureaus.

Factors That Affect Your Credit Score:

35% — Payment history

Lenders look at your payment history on all your accounts; the length of your positive credit history and how long you have gone without a negative item; whether there are any severe unpaid debts like bankruptcies or foreclosures; and the number and severity of delinquencies in your credit history.

30% — Amounts Owed

Too many credit accounts and a high ratio of credit balances to credit limits can affect your score. Also affecting your score is the amount of debt on each account and the level of debt paid off on term accounts.

15% — Length of Credit History

Longer credit histories result in higher scores. Important factors incorporated into credit scores are: length of credit history, length of time specific accounts have been open, and the duration of time since each account was last used.

10% — New Credit

Credit scores track consumers who suddenly take on new debt and potentially overextend themselves, by checking to see when the last time a consumer opened an account and how many accounts were opened and by looking at the number of inquires on the consumer's credit reports.

10% — Types of Credit Used

The type of credit you have plays an important role in determining your credit score. A "healthy mix" of installment loans (mortgage payment, auto loan) and revolving credit from banks is considered better for your score.

What's a good credit score?

Scores may range from around 300 to 900 (VantageScore) with the average credit score in America being around 720. Here is an approximate range of how credit scores are judged:

Excellent credit = 720 and above

Good credit = 660 to 719

Fair credit = 620 to 659

Poor/bad credit = 619 and below

For anecdotal evidence of your good credit standing, if you notice you are receiving a lot of zero percent credit card or lines of credit offers, you are probably in pretty good shape.

In conclusion, having a high credit score is still very important in getting the best mortgage rate, and you should be guided by the factors that make up your credit score. But, since you are ranked against the rest of the population and financial conditions also impact credit worthiness, improving your credit score is not always within your control.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on February 21, 2011, 07:01:29 PM
Healing a Wounded Credit Score
By TARA SIEGEL BERNARD

Millions of consumers have fallen out of favor with the credit scoring gods.

Some lost their jobs or were just overwhelmed by mounting debt. Others got caught up in the real estate bubble or had major medical bills. Whatever the reason, the rising number of foreclosures, short sales, late credit card payments and the ultimate credit sin — bankruptcies — have left black marks on credit reports most everywhere.

So what can these people do to repair their credit?

The simple answer is to focus on the information that is used to generate the all-powerful FICO score — the measure used most frequently by traditional lenders to determine creditworthiness. Its scale runs from 300 points to 850 points; the higher the score, the better your credit standing. “FICO is still the 500-pound gorilla,” said John Ulzheimer, president of consumer education at SmartCredit.com. “In 2011, the best way to get credit from the mainstream lenders is to have a good FICO score.”

Consumers can hope that the banks will eventually consider alternatives to the traditional FICO score, which was developed by Fair Isaac Corporation and has been in wide use for about two decades. After all, as banks regain their appetite for lending, they will be looking for ways to differentiate between borrowers with the same scores, some of whom are temporarily struggling and others who chronically have trouble with money.

For now, though, the FICO score reigns. The best antidote to a poor score is time. Still, there are a half dozen ways to speed the process, or, at the least, avoid even more credit trouble.

What to Do...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/19/your-money/19money.html?_r=1&ref=homepage&src=me&pagewanted=all


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on May 03, 2011, 03:57:10 PM
New FICO tool claims ability to ID borrowers who may walk away from mortgages
By Kimberly Miller

Homeowners who strategically default on their mortgages hope to fly under the radar, living payment-free while their foreclosure wends its way through the courts — a years-long process in some cases.

But the nation's leading credit-scoring company says it has developed a better way to identify borrowers who can afford to pay their mortgage but choose foreclosure instead.

FICO's new analytical tool, which combines such factors as spending habits, changes in a person's debt and housing depreciation, is heralded as a way to ferret out borrowers making a business decision to walk away versus homeowners who truly can no longer afford their mortgage. FICO claims to be able to make this distinction before a borrower is even in default.

For banks, identifying strategic default borrowers early can help them make decisions on how to handle the delinquencies, including what kind of language to use during phone calls, and whether to pursue deficiency judgments.

A study released in March by the University of Chicago Booth School of Business found that 35 percent of mortgage defaults in September were strategic, compared with 26 percent in March 2009.

"It's critical for the mortgage servicer to understand the motivation, particularly while the borrower is still current on the loan, so they can take preventative action," said Joanne Gaskin, FICO's director of mortgage markets. "It's important to make sure the consumer understands the implications of walking away. They might not be aware of the continued liability."

A hit of 150 or more points to a person's credit score can be expected from foreclosure, FICO estimates. Also, in Florida, a lender has five years to file for a deficiency judgment and up to 20 years to collect.

A Palm Beach Post analysis of deficiency judgments showed only 133 claims were filed between April 2006 and November 2010 on foreclosed residential properties in Palm Beach County. But experts said more may be coming as banks work through the bulk of foreclosures or even sell the claims to debt collection companies.

Mark Stopa, a Tampa-based foreclosure defense attorney and proponent of strategic default, said financial institutions are just trying to scare homeowners, discouraging strategic defaults by convincing borrowers they are easily identifiable targets.

"Strategic default is a sound business decision for many people," Stopa said. "Bankers try to make it about morality, but they have to realize that there is an overwhelming incentive at this point for people to strategically default."

That's because home values have sunk so much from their boom-time prices. In Palm Beach County, the median price for an existing home in March was $186,500, down 52 percent from the March 2006 median price of $393,700, according to Florida Realtors reports.

Traditionally, banks have used only the degree of home price depreciation when determining whether a default is strategic. FICO said its new tool considers other characteristics and looks for someone with a good credit history and a low credit-card balance who has lived a short time in the home and has opened new credit in the past six months.

West Palm Beach resident Anthony Armenti, 59, fits some of those characteristics. He also has seen his home value plummet from his 2006 purchase price of $274,100 to a total market value today of $77,000.

Retired, Armenti can afford the payments, but he's also scrimping a little on other things and using coupons.

"I never had to live like that before," said Armenti, who has considered a strategic default. "I don't really need a credit score anymore. It would mean $1,600 in my pocket every month."

But Armenti said he won't walk away.

"I won't do it because it's not the right thing to do for the United States," he said.

But banks are preparing for people who don't share Armenti's sentiment.

Gaskin said loan servicers are grooming teams of employees on how to deal with strategic defaulters.

"Specialists should be trained to engage in a pragmatic, rational discussion that corresponds to and joins with the thinking process in which these customers are already engaged," said a FICO report about its new product. "They can help work through the alternatives and trade-offs to make a decision that potential strategic defaulters regard as less of a moral nature than a purely financial one."

The result of more strategic defaults is a continued decrease in home values, Gaskin said.

Howard Dolginoff, a member of the homeowners association board for the Grand Isles community in Wellington, has a stake in home values stabilizing. He knows of 18 homes in foreclosure in his neighborhood.

Selling for more than $500,000 in 2005, some homes are now valued at less than $300,000. Dolginoff said he understands why someone would strategically default.

"I try not to be too judgmental about this stuff," said Dolginoff, who bought in 2000. "I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't recommend it. I don't know if it's a moral thing or just personal pride."


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on May 16, 2011, 05:10:41 AM
Credit Error? It Pays to Be on V.I.P. List
By TARA SIEGEL BERNARD

The credit rating bureaus, whose reports influence everything from credit cards to mortgages to job offers, have a two-tiered system for resolving errors — one for the rich, the well-connected, the well-known and the powerful, and the other for everyone else.

The three major agencies, Equifax, Experian and TransUnion, keep a V.I.P. list of sorts, according to consumer lawyers and legal documents, consisting of celebrities, politicians, judges and other influential people. Those on the list — and they may not even realize they are on it — get special help from workers in the United States in fixing mistakes on their credit reports. Any errors are usually corrected immediately, one lawyer said.

For everyone else, disputes are herded into a largely automated system. Their complaints are often electronically ferried to a subcontractor overseas, where a worker spends, on average, about two minutes figuring out the gist of the matter, boiling it down to a one-to-three-digit computer code that signifies the problem — “account not his/hers,” for example — and sending a dispute form to the creditor to investigate. Many times, consumer advocates say, the investigation translates to a perfunctory check of its records.

“The legal responsibility of the credit reporting agencies and of the creditors is well established,” said Leonard Bennett, a consumer lawyer in Newport News, Va. “There is a requirement that they do meaningful research and analysis, and it is almost never done.”

Consumers who have trouble fixing errors through the dispute process can quickly find themselves trapped in a Kafkaesque no man’s land, where the only escape is through the court system.

“You are guilty before you are proven innocent in a situation like this,” said Catherine Taylor, 45, of Benton, Ark., who said she had been denied employment and credit because her filing was mixed up with a felon who had the same name and birthday.

Judy Johnson of Bossier City, La., was confused with a less creditworthy Judith Johnson, with a similar address and Social Security number. For nearly seven years, Judy Johnson, a 63-year-old credit manager for a building supply company, said she tried to remove the black marks from her credit report. But when she was denied a credit card, she knew the problem had returned — a third time. “This time, I was livid,” she said.

She ultimately brought a suit against one of the bureaus, and recently settled for an amount she cannot disclose. But the problems still linger. A deputy sheriff recently came to her door to serve her papers for a debt she says she does not owe.

The credit rating bureaus, private-sector companies that each attempt to track all American consumers’ credit use, have grown much more powerful over the last couple of decades as credit has become a crucial cog in the nation’s financial system. Their reports are used to formulate the all-powerful credit score, which lenders use to determine creditworthiness.

But as the bureaus’ work has become more important, consumer advocates say, regulation has not kept up, in large part because their overseer, the Federal Trade Commission, lacks broad authority. That could change once responsibility for the credit bureaus shifts to the new Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, which will be able to write rules and examine the credit agencies’ policies.

The bureaus, meanwhile, do not have an economic incentive to improve the system, consumer advocates say, because their main customers are the creditors, not consumers.

“There is no neutrality in the credit reporting agencies,” said John Ulzheimer, who has been an expert witness in more than 80 credit-related cases and is president of consumer education at SmartCredit.com. “They work for the lenders who buy credit reports from them, and anyone who suggests otherwise is not being intellectually honest.”

When asked about the V.I.P. category, TransUnion said all consumers “have the ability to speak to a live representative.” Equifax said consumers who received a free copy of their credit report were provided with a number for customer service.

Experian denied that it had V.I.P. lists. But a spokeswoman did say that prominent people deemed high risk — like politicians in an election year — might have their credit files taken offline so that creditors or other companies making inquiries could not get access without the bureau’s permission. Experian said those people did not receive any other special handling.

David Szwak, a consumer lawyer in Shreveport, La., who has handled dozens of credit cases, said that the V.I.P. designation and preferential treatment did exist at Experian, and he provided sworn testimony from former Experian employees that the category existed.

Estimates of credit reports with serious errors vary widely, anywhere from 3 to 25 percent. A recent study, paid for by the Consumer Data Industry Association, the trade group for the bureaus, found potential errors in 19.2 percent of reports, but said that less than 1 percent of them had disputes that, when settled, resulted in a meaningful increase in scores. Even 1 percent translates into millions of consumers, since there are at least 200 million files at each of the bureaus.

The F.T.C. is expected to deliver a nationwide study on credit report accuracy next year that could provide more clarity. It could also include recommendations for legislative action.

The volume of disputes has been rising as consumers borrow more and gain greater access to credit reports. The automated system was a response to that. A spokesman for the trade group said most consumers received an answer within 14 days.

Experian is the only bureau that still processes disputes in the United States, experts said, though most complaints wind their way through the same online system — unless the dispute involves a V.I.P.

“They get a lot more high-end treatment,” said Mr. Szwak, the lawyer, who has read the bureaus’ internal procedure manuals and deposed or cross-examined employees. The biggest difference at TransUnion and Equifax, lawyers said, is that V.I.P.’s disputes are specially handled domestically. Regular consumers’ files, meanwhile, may get priority treatment if they involve a time-sensitive issue, like a mortgage pending, or if the consumer is represented by a lawyer or dealing with fraud.

Last year, new rules went into effect to strengthen existing regulations on the accuracy of reports. The rules also allow consumers to dispute errors directly with the creditor. But critics say the rule lacks any teeth because consumers don’t have the right to sue the companies. (Individuals can, however, sue the bureaus and creditors after lodging a dispute through their system.)

But the problem, advocates say, is that consumers cannot vote with their feet. “They cannot remove their information from the bureaus,” said Chi Chi Wu, a staff lawyer at the National Consumer Law Center, who wrote a report on the automated dispute process in 2009, “or take their business elsewhere.”


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on August 05, 2011, 03:23:52 PM
This is really scary!  


Extreme debtors
The government isn't the only one with a debt problem. These seven people are drowning in debt and many don't see a light at the end of the tunnel.
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2011/pf/1108/gallery.extreme_debt/index.html

So many people are drowning in debt these days with no prospect of ever getting out from under it.  Something's got to give.  :'(


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on April 01, 2012, 09:40:29 PM
Senior citizens continue to bear burden of student loans
By Ylan Q. Mui

The burden of paying for college is wreaking havoc on the finances of an unexpected demographic: senior citizens.

New research from the Federal Reserve Bank of New York shows that Americans 60 and older still owe about $36 billion in student loans, providing a rare window into the dynamics of student debt. More than 10 percent of those loans are delinquent. As a result, consumer advocates say, it is not uncommon for Social Security checks to be garnished or for debt collectors to harass borrowers in their 80s over student loans that are decades old.

That even seniors remain saddled with student loans highlights what a growing chorus of lawmakers, economists and financial experts say has become a central conflict in the nation’s higher education system: The long-touted benefits of a college degree are being diluted by rising tuition rates and the longevity of debt.

Some of these older Americans are still grappling with their first wave of student loans, while others took on new debt when they returned to school later in life in hopes of becoming more competitive in the labor force. Many have co-signed for loans with their children or grandchildren to help them afford ballooning tuition.

The recent recession exacerbated this problem, making it harder for older Americans — or the youths they are supporting in school — to get good-paying jobs. And unlike other debts, student loans cannot be shed in bankruptcy. As a result, some older Americans have found that a college degree led not to a prosperous career but instead to a lifetime under the shadow of debt.

“A student loan can be a debt that’s kind of like a ball and chain that you can drag to the grave,” said William E. Brewer, president of the National Association of Consumer Bankruptcy Attorneys. “You can unhook it when they lay you in the coffin.”

Sandy Barnett, 58, of Illinois thought she was doing the right thing when she decided to pursue a master’s degree in clinical psychology in the late 1980s. She had worked her way through college but said she took out a loan of about $21,000 to pay for graduate school so she would have more time to focus on her studies.

But even after earning her master’s, Barnett struggled to find a job that paid more than $25,000 a year and soon fell behind on her payments. She suffered through a layoff, a stretch of unemployment and the death of her husband — while her student loan ballooned to roughly $54,000.

Barnett filed for bankruptcy in 2005, but she couldn’t get out from under her student loan debt. She said a collection agency began garnishing the wages from her full-time job as a customer service representative a year ago, and now money is so tight that she must choose between buying gas and buying food. An air conditioner for her mobile home is an unimaginable luxury.

“I shake my head every day at the thought that I’m working for nothing,” Barnett said. “It’s really a black hole because there’s no end in sight.”

A college degree has traditionally been viewed as a virtual guarantee of a better-paying job and a higher standard of living. And on the whole, that remains true. The unemployment rate for Americans with only a high school education is 9.2 percent — more than double the rate for those with college degrees. The median weekly earnings for high school graduates last year was $638, according to government data, compared with $1,053 for college grads.

But with the recent recession prompting layoffs at white-collar law firms and investment banks as well as auto plants and construction companies, more Americans are finding themselves out of work and deep in debt. At a Senate subcommittee hearing last week, Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner said the cost of higher learning should reflect the quality of education received.

Many students “haven’t been able to earn a return that justifies the expense,” he said.

Over the past decade, the cost of college rose between 2 and 6 percent per year, depending on the type of institution, according to the College Board.

Meanwhile, the New York Fed estimates that Americans owed $870 billion in student loans during the third quarter of last year, significantly outpacing credit card debt or auto loans. Borrowers age 60 and above accounted for 5percent of that debt. The share for Americans age 50 and older is 17 percent.

In some cases, student debt has been a burden for even financially responsible older Americans.

Maxine Bass, 60, of Minnesota said her granddaughter dreamed of going to college since she was a child. But her mother could barely afford to provide her lunch money, much less pay for tuition. Bass had good credit and a steady job.

So when her granddaughter was accepted into St. Catherine University to study biology, Bass said she gladly co-signed for a $38,000 loan with her. But when the granddaughter fell behind on the payments as she hunted for a job with a decent salary, Bass’s own finances took a hit.

“I went into a panic, like, what was I gonna do?” Bass wondered.

Because of late fees and missed payments, Bass said she and her granddaughter owe about $69,000. They are now contributing monthly, but Bass is worried she won’t be able to catch up.

“Many parents who thought they were headed to retirement with a college-educated child end up continuing to work because of student debt that can’t be paid,” Sen. Richard J. Durbin (D-Ill.) said at last week’s hearing.

Durbin has introduced legislation that would allow private student loan debt to be discharged in bankruptcy, though borrowers would still have to pay off any federal loans. Sallie Mae, one of the nation’s largest private student lenders, as well as consumer groups support all types of student loans being forgiven during bankruptcy. Last year, President Obama addressed the issue by easing the repayment requirements for federal student loans. The new rules allow borrowers to pay 10 percent of their income for 20 years before the loan is forgiven.

Still, the bill would only address one aspect of what many believe is a more fundamental problem: the cost of college. Until that is solved, Suzanne Martin, an attorney with Consumers Union, said she anticipates older Americans’ share of student loans will only increase.

“This current generation of borrowers is going to be a generation of seniors who are burdened with debt,” she said.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on July 06, 2012, 08:12:49 AM
Lou Gehrig baseball is nice, student debt isn't: Start the auction
By Tina Susman

NEW YORK -- Like most medical students, Michael Gott has a lot of student debt. Unlike most medical students, his family possesses the baseball that Yankees slugger Lou Gehrig hit for a home run during the 1928 World Series. Not for long, though, because Gott's mother is selling the ball to help pay off her son's loans.

By early Friday, bidding for the famous ball had reached more than $33,000, but Hunt Auctions of Exton, Penn., which is handling the sale, expects to fetch $100,000 to $200,000 for the ball, which flew into the bleachers on Oct. 5, 1928, in the second game of the series.

"It should be in the hands of someone who really loves it and has a passion for it," Gott's mother, Elizabeth Gott, told the Associated Press. "Right now we have a passion for my son and his career."

According to a description of the ball on the Hunt Auctions website, the ball is extraordinarily valuable for a number of reasons: It has been in the hands of the same family for 84 years. It comes with accompanying newspaper articles detailing the famous hit and the manner in which the ball fell into the hands of a young man named Buddy Kurland, who was Elizabeth Gott's great-uncle. And it involved some of baseball's most legendary players.

Babe Ruth was among the Yankee teammates on base when Gehrig hit the three-run homer, helping the Yankees to a 9-3 victory over St. Louis. New York went on to win the series, but Gehrig's career was cut short when he was diagnosed with amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, the disease that killed him in 1941 and that is now referred to commonly as Lou Gehrig's disease.

For years, the baseball sat on display in the window of Buddy Kurland's shop in South Manchester, Conn., but eventually it ended up in a drawer in Elizabeth Gott's Stamford, Conn., home. With her 30-year-old son's medical school loans nearing $200,000, she said, it seemed like the right time to sell the ball.

While valuable, the ball isn't nearly as pricey as some other bits of baseball history. According to Hunt, its sales in recent years have included a 1933 All-Star Game inaugural home run baseball that sold for $805,000, as well as Babe Ruth's 702nd home run ball from 1934, which fetched $264,500 at auction.

“I think what we enjoy about handling pieces like this is they really … bear the significance of baseball within American culture in the last 100-plus years,” Hunt president David Hunt told the AP. "Unlike any other sport, baseball has that just unbelievably storied history.”


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on August 09, 2014, 11:12:17 AM
New FICO criteria could help borrowers
By E. Scott Reckard, Tim Logan

The nation's dominant credit-scoring system is being revised in a way that could save consumers nationwide billions of dollars, especially in qualifying for mortgages, auto loans and credit cards at lower interest rates.

The changes to FICO criteria are aimed at reducing the negative effect of overdue medical bills and at removing the penalties to consumers who pay off debts that had been assigned to collection agencies.

The revisions, to take effect this fall, will alter the formulas used to generate the credit grades used in more than 90% of the decisions that lenders make about how much consumers can borrow and at what interest rates. The scores also are used by employers and landlords.

Improved scores could make it easier for millions of Americans with past credit blemishes to get loans or to get them at lower rates.

Experts cautioned, though, that borrowers might have to wait a year or more to see the effect of changes because lenders will not quickly overhaul their systems to evaluate consumers and price loans for them.

What's more, the effect on the housing market, a major key to economic growth, is likely to be muted. Analysts said change would be seen more rapidly in auto loans and credit cards than in mortgages.

"These are not changes that are going to turn on a fire hose of new loan applications any time soon," said Greg McBride, the chief analyst at consumer financial website Bankrate.com. "For a lot of people, it's not so much going to be the difference between being approved and denied as it is the terms on which you are approved."

For consumers whose only major delinquency is an unpaid medical bill, the changes would increase a credit score by 25 points, according to Fair Isaac Corp., the company that provides FICO scores to the three big credit-rating firms. Scores range from 300 to 850, and most lenders prefer a score above 700.

The revisions, released Thursday, address a major point of contention between Fair Isaac and consumer groups.

Consumer advocates had complained that medical patients frequently are left in the dark when insurers reject payment on a bill, which can then go to collection. What's more, unexpected medical catastrophes can swamp otherwise responsible borrowers with enormous bills.

A recent Consumer Financial Protection Bureau study, based on data from Fair Isaac and the credit bureaus, found that both paid and unpaid medical debts unfairly penalized a consumer's credit rating.

Although the changes will affect FICO scores, they won't remove any unpaid debts from a credit report.

Lenders could still use the items as a reason to deny a loan application or charge more in fees or interest.

Credit unions will need time to study the new FICO criteria but are likely to adopt them quickly, said Arnold Ramirez, a consultant for the California and Nevada Credit Union Leagues. He said a consumer who pays off a debt that went to collection years ago would be regarded favorably.

"Credit unions were created to help people of modest means," Ramirez said. "We want to help people who may have had problems but are now putting themselves back in good financial standing."

Many mortgage lenders use a previous version of FICO, which also is still favored by industry financing giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Together they buy or guarantee more than 60% of home loans.

A credit score is just one of many factors a lender looks at when considering a loan.

A survey by FICO of bank risk managers last month found that they were nearly six times more likely to reject a loan application because of a high debt-to-income ratio — the amount of a borrower's income devoted to housing and debt payments — than because of a low FICO score.

"The credit score plays less of a role [in a mortgage decision] than most people think," said Kelli Isaacs, vice president and regional sales manager for Southern California at Bank of the West. "I think what people should be looking at is the overall picture. Regardless of your scores, are you paying your bills?"

Meanwhile, lenders have eased up on the credit scores they have been requiring in the aftermath of the mortgage meltdown and financial crisis. The average FICO score for a closed mortgage in June was 728, down from 742 a year earlier, according to Ellie Mae, a company that processes mortgage applications for lenders.

Still, a higher score often translates into lower interest rates and lower payments.

A borrower with a FICO score of 675 can expect to pay 4.75% interest on a 30-year fixed-rate mortgage, according to Informa Research Services in Calabasas. That amounts to $2,086 a month in principal and interest on a $400,000 loan.

At a FICO score of 700, that rate drops to 4.212%, and the monthly payment falls $127, to $1,959.

Access to credit is still a big hurdle for the housing market. A survey this week by the Federal Reserve found that 29% of renters hadn't bought a house because they couldn't qualify for a mortgage.

Anything that makes qualifying easier and cheaper should be welcome news, said Lawrence Yun, chief economist for the National Assn. of Realtors.

"In recent years the [credit score requirement] has been dialed so tightly that only fairly upper-tier consumers were able to qualify for a loan," he said. "We're looking at people, who are currently being denied, potentially being offered a mortgage because of this."

Nick Clements, a credit-scoring expert who heads Magnify Money, a personal finance site, said the changes have the potential to save consumers billions of dollars, noting that 64 million Americans have a medical collection item on their credit reports.

But Clements said banks probably will take a year to 18 months to analyze the effects of the new scoring on their loans and set up new pricing strategies. And improvement won't be automatic.

"Just because FICO says that someone is low risk does not mean a bank will treat them as such," Clements said.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on August 10, 2014, 11:05:26 AM
Before marrying, ask the money questions
By Michelle Singletary

There are times when you’re right but you wish you weren’t. This is one of those times.

Ten years ago, a reader wrote to me asking for advice about his relationship with his girlfriend. It was near Valentine’s Day, and he wanted to ask her to marry him. But he had major reservations about how she managed her money.

“I plan to propose to my girlfriend of a year and a half,” he wrote at the time. “Her spending habits are outrageous. She justifies [the spending] by saying she works two jobs and bargain-shops. She has more than 400 pairs of shoes, some she’s not even worn, and clothing falls in the same category. There is almost no room left in her home. I am the frugal one in the relationship, and I hope it’s beginning to sink in that she can’t spend the way she’s done in the past.”

He asked for my help. “What can I do to help her curb her spending habits without making her feel bad or as though I am putting her down?”

I told him to hold off on the engagement. He had a lot of work to do before hitching his life to someone he was concerned had financial issues, and in particular to a partner not willing to acknowledge she might have a spending problem.

“Realize the two of you are a classic case of money opposites attracting,” I answered. “This isn’t unusual. But having different spending styles that aren’t worked out can cause serious conflicts in a marriage. The important thing is to exchange your views about money before you exchange wedding vows.”

I laid out several specific things he needed to do before proposing. I recommended that the couple discuss their expectations. He should express his concerns. But I cautioned that the conversation shouldn’t be just about her spending. Otherwise, things might get confrontational. She might become defensive. And frugality isn’t always good if the penny-pincher is too critical or judgmental of a spouse’s different money style.

I suggested that they pull their credit reports and share them with each other. Same for their credit scores. You can get free copies of your credit reports every 12 months from annualcreditreport.com. You have to pay for the credit scores, but it’s worth the money to check each other’s creditworthiness.

I suggested that they seek professional help from a credit counselor who could provide information about budgeting and money management. I even gave him the contact information to find a counselor — debtadvice.org or call 800-388-2227. It’s still the same site and number, should you be in a similar situation.

I ended with this warning: “You’re right to be concerned. It’s vital that you address your financial differences before you get married. After all, love does not conquer all, because it can’t pay the bills.”

Fast-forward to this month, and I get another e-mail from the same guy. He didn’t do any of the things I suggested.

“Your column that February 8th was spot on and, although I read it, I didn’t follow it,” he wrote. “Thus here I am on the brink of financial ruin and a failed marriage.”

Sometime after the wedding, he discovered that his wife owed $30,000 to the Internal Revenue Service. “While I already had one mortgage, I took out a second in order to pay off her tax debt. Had I asked all the pertinent questions early on, I would have also discovered [another] $15,000 tax bill from the city.”

Earlier this year, just in time for Valentine’s Day, the National Endowment for Financial Education released a survey that found that 13 percent of couples who have combined finances have deceived their partners by lying about such things as the amount of debt they owe or how much they earn.

Things have not gone well in the e-mail writer’s relationship in part because of the lack of financial disclosure.

“Here we are 10 years later,” he wrote. “The home I purchased, I now stand a good chance of losing by not asking all the right questions. I’ve put my financial health in a dismal, near-death state. This is not a good feeling, as I now also have a young child at home. Hopefully, I will be able to save my home to the point where it can just be sold and I can begin to stop the bloodletting of my financial woes, and prepare for my retirement (53 years old) and her schooling.”

It may not be too late to get help and save his marriage.

Nonetheless, the reader wanted to warn others. He ended his update with this: “It’s my hope that others don’t fall into the same mishap I’ve put myself into.”


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: forillagorilla on August 10, 2014, 05:04:49 PM
Living within your means is the best way of sticking it to the man.

Don't go there Bay, LOL! It's a figure of speech.  :)

Very wise. Not so much do I care about the man - because I am the man - but debt free living is the life!!


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on September 25, 2014, 07:37:40 AM
Methyl Mike beware!


Miss a Payment? Good Luck Moving That Car
By Michael Corkery and Jessica Silver-Greenberg

The thermometer showed a 103.5-degree fever, and her 10-year-old’s asthma was flaring up. Mary Bolender, who lives in Las Vegas, needed to get her daughter to an emergency room, but her 2005 Chrysler van would not start.

The cause was not a mechanical problem — it was her lender.

Ms. Bolender was three days behind on her monthly car payment. Her lender, C.A.G. Acceptance of Mesa, Ariz., remotely activated a device in her car’s dashboard that prevented her car from starting. Before she could get back on the road, she had to pay more than $389, money she did not have that morning in March.

“I felt absolutely helpless,” said Ms. Bolender, a single mother who stopped working to care for her daughter. It was not the only time this happened: Her car was shut down that March, once in April and again in June.

This new technology is bringing auto loans — and Wall Street’s version of Big Brother — into the lives of people with credit scores battered by the financial downturn.

Auto loans to borrowers considered subprime, those with credit scores at or below 640, have spiked in the last five years. The jump has been driven in large part by the demand among investors for securities backed by the loans, which offer high returns at a time of low interest rates. Roughly 25 percent of all new auto loans made last year were subprime, and the volume of subprime auto loans reached more than $145 billion in the first three months of this year.

But before they can drive off the lot, many subprime borrowers like Ms. Bolender must have their car outfitted with a so-called starter interrupt device, which allows lenders to remotely disable the ignition. Using the GPS technology on the devices, the lenders can also track the cars’ location and movements.

The devices, which have been installed in about two million vehicles, are helping feed the subprime boom by enabling more high-risk borrowers to get loans. But there is a big catch. By simply clicking a mouse or tapping a smartphone, lenders retain the ultimate control. Borrowers must stay current with their payments, or lose access to their vehicle.

“I have disabled a car while I was shopping at Walmart,” said Lionel M. Vead Jr., the head of collections at First Castle Federal Credit Union in Covington, La. Roughly 30 percent of customers with an auto loan at the credit union have starter interrupt devices.

Now used in about one-quarter of subprime auto loans nationwide, the devices are reshaping the dynamics of auto lending by making timely payments as vital to driving a car as gasoline.

Seizing on such technological advances, lenders are reaching deeper and deeper into the ranks of Americans on the financial margins, with interest rates on some of the loans exceeding 29 percent. Concerns raised by regulators and some rating firms about loose lending standards have disturbing echoes of the subprime-mortgage crisis.

As the ignition devices proliferate, so have complaints from troubled borrowers, many of whom are finding that credit comes at a steep price to their privacy and, at times, their dignity, according to interviews with state and federal regulators, borrowers and consumer lawyers.

Some borrowers say their cars were disabled when they were only a few days behind on their payments, leaving them stranded in dangerous neighborhoods. Others said their cars were shut down while idling at stoplights. Some described how they could not take their children to school or to doctor’s appointments. One woman in Nevada said her car was shut down while she was driving on the freeway.

Beyond the ability to disable a vehicle, the devices have tracking capabilities that allow lenders and others to know the movements of borrowers, a major concern for privacy advocates. And the warnings the devices emit — beeps that become more persistent as the due date for the loan payment approaches — are seen by some borrowers as more degrading than helpful.

“No middle-class person would ever be hounded for being a day late,” said Robert Swearingen, a lawyer with Legal Services of Eastern Missouri, in St. Louis. “But for poor people, there is a debt collector right there in the car with them.”

Lenders and manufacturers of the technology say borrowers consent to having these devices installed in their cars. And without them, they say, millions of Americans might not qualify for a car loan at all.

From his office outside New Orleans, Mr. Vead can monitor the movements of about 880 subprime borrowers on a computerized map that shows the location of their cars with a red marker. Mr. Vead can spot drivers who have fallen behind on their payments and remotely disable their vehicles on his computer or mobile phone.

The devices are reshaping how people like Mr. Vead collect on debts. He can quickly locate the collateral without relying on a repo man to hunt down delinquent borrowers.

Gone are the days when Mr. Vead, a debt collector for nearly 20 years, had to hire someone to scour neighborhoods for cars belonging to delinquent borrowers. Sometimes locating one could take years. Now, within minutes of a car’s ignition being disabled, Mr. Vead said, the borrower calls him offering to pay.

“It gets their attention,” he said.

Mr. Vead, who has a coffee cup that reads “The GPS Man,” has been encouraging other credit unions to use the technology. And the devices — one version was first used to help pet owners keep track of their animals — are catching on with a range of subprime auto lenders, including companies backed by private equity firms and credit unions.

Mr. Vead says that first, he tries reaching a delinquent borrower on the phone or in person. Then, only after at least 30 days of missed payments, he typically shuts down cars when they are parked at the borrower’s house or workplace. If there is an emergency, he says, he will turn a car back on.

None of the borrowers or consumer lawyers interviewed by The New York Times raised concerns about the way Mr. Vead’s credit union uses the devices. But other lenders, they said, were not as considerate, marooning drivers in far-flung places and often giving no advance notice of a shut-off. Lenders say that they exercise caution when disabling vehicles and that the devices enable them to extend more credit.

Without the use of such devices, said John Pena, general manager of C.A.G. Acceptance, “we would be unable to extend loans because of the high-risk nature of the loans.”

The growth in the subprime market has been good for the devices’ manufacturers. At Lender Systems of Temecula, Calif., which sells a range of starter interrupt devices, revenue has more than doubled so far this year, buoyed by an influx of new credit union customers, said David Sailors, the company’s executive vice president.

Mr. Sailors noted that GPS tracking on his company’s devices could be turned on only when borrowers were in default — a policy, he said, that has cost it business.

The devices, manufacturers say, are selling well because they are proving effective in coaxing payments from even the most troubled borrowers.

A leading device maker, PassTime of Littleton, Colo., says its technology has reduced late payments to roughly 7 percent from nearly 29 percent. Spireon, which offers a GPS device called the Talon, has a tool on its website where lenders can calculate their return on capital.

While the devices make life easier for lenders, their ability to track drivers’ movements has struck a nerve with a number of borrowers and some government authorities, who say they are a particularly troubling example of personal-data gathering and surveillance.

At its extreme, consumer lawyers say, such surveillance can compromise borrowers’ safety. In Austin, Tex., a large subprime lender used a device to track down and repossess the car of a woman who had fled to a shelter to escape her abusive husband, said her lawyer, Amy Clark Kleinpeter.

The move to the shelter violated a clause in her auto loan contract that restricted her from driving outside a four-county radius, and that prompted the lender to send a tow truck to take back the vehicle. If the lender could so easily locate the client, Ms. Kleinpeter said, what was stopping her husband?

“She was terrified her husband would be able to find out where she was from the tow truck company,” said Ms. Kleinpeter, a consumer lawyer in Austin, who said a growing number of her clients had the devices installed in their cars.

Lenders and manufacturers emphasize that they have strict guidelines in place to protect drivers’ information. The GPS devices, they say, are predominantly intended to help lenders and car dealerships locate a car if they need to repossess it, not to put borrowers under surveillance.

Spireon says it can help lenders identify signs of trouble by analyzing data on a borrower’s behavior. Lenders using Spireon’s software can create “geo-fences” that alert them if borrowers are no longer traveling to their regular place of employment — a development that could affect a person’s ability to repay the loan.

A Spireon spokeswoman said the company takes privacy seriously and works to ensure that it complies with all state regulations.

Corinne Kirkendall, vice president for compliance and public relations for PassTime, which has sold 1.5 million devices worldwide, says the company also calls lenders “if we see an excessive use” of the tracking device.

Even though the device made her squeamish, Michelle Fahy of Jacksonville, Fla., agreed to have one installed in her 2001 Dodge Ram because she needed the pickup truck for her job delivering pizza.

Shortly after picking up her four children from school one afternoon in January, Ms. Fahy, 42, said she pulled into a gas station to fill up. But when she tried to restart the truck, she was not able to do so.

Then she looked at her cellphone and noticed a string of missed calls from her lender. She called back and asked, “Did you just shut down my truck?” and the response was “Yes, I did.”

To get her truck restarted, Ms. Fahy had to agree to pay the $255.99 she owed. As she pleaded for more time, her children grew confused and worried. “They were in panic mode,” she said. Finally, she said she would pay, and within minutes she was able to start her engine.

Borrowers are typically provided with codes that are supposed to restart the vehicle for 24 hours in case of an emergency. But some drivers say the codes fail. Others say they are given only one code a month, even though their cars are shut down more often.

Some drivers take matters into their own hands. Homemade videos on the Internet teach borrowers how to disable their devices, and Spireon has started selling lenders a fake GPS device called the Decoy, which is meant to trick borrowers into thinking they have removed the actual tracking system, which is installed along with the Decoy.

Oscar Fabela Jr., who said his 2007 Dodge Magnum was routinely shut down even when he was current on his $362 monthly car payment, discovered a way to circumvent the system.

That trick came in handy when he returned from seeing a movie with a date, only to find his car would not start and the payment reminder was screaming like a burglar alarm.

“It sounded like I was breaking into my own car,” said Mr. Fabela, 26, who works at a phone company in San Antonio.

While his date turned the ignition switch, Mr. Fabela used a screwdriver to rig the starter, allowing him to bypass the starter interruption device.

Mr. Fabela’s car eventually started, but it was their only date.

“It didn’t end well,” he said.

Across the country, state and federal authorities are grappling with how to regulate the new technology.

Consumer lawyers, including dozens whose clients’ cars have been shut down, argue that the devices amount to “electronic repossession” and their use should be governed by state laws, which outline how much time borrowers have before their cars can be seized.

State laws governing repossession typically prevent lenders from seizing cars until the borrowers are in default, which often means that they have not made their payments for at least 30 days.

The devices, lawyers for borrowers argue, violate those laws because they may effectively repossess the car only days after a missed payment. Payment records show that Ms. Bolender, the Las Vegas mother with the sick daughter, was not in default in any of the four instances her ignition was disabled this year.

PassTime and the other manufacturers say they ensure that their devices comply with state laws. C.A.G. declined to comment on Ms. Bolender’s experiences.

State regulators are also examining whether a defective device could endanger the borrowers or other drivers on the road, according to people with knowledge of the matter who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

Last year, Nevada’s Legislature heard testimony from T. Candice Smith, 31, who said she thought she was going to die when her car suddenly shut down, sending her careening across a three-lane Las Vegas highway.

“It was horrifying,” she recalled.

Ms. Smith said that her lender, C.A.G. Acceptance, had remotely activated her ignition interruption device.

“It’s a safety hazard for the driver and for all others on the road,” said her lawyer, Sophia A. Medina, with the Legal Aid Center of Southern Nevada.

Mr. Pena of C.A.G. Acceptance said, “It is impossible to cause a vehicle to shut off while it is operating,” He added, “We take extra precautions to try and work with and be professional with our customers.” While PassTime, the device’s maker, declined to comment on Ms. Smith’s case, the company emphasized that its products were designed to prevent a car from starting, not to shut it down while it was in operation.

“PassTime has no recognition of our devices shutting off a customer while driving,” Ms. Kirkendall of PassTime said.

In her testimony, Ms. Smith, who reached a confidential settlement with C.A.G., said the device made her feel helpless.

“I felt like even though I made my payments and was never late under my contract, these people could do whatever they wanted,” she testified, “and there was nothing I could do to stop them.”


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: dr.chimps on October 05, 2014, 05:09:02 PM
Lou Gehrig baseball is nice, student debt isn't: Start the auction
By Tina Susman

NEW YORK -- Like most medical students, Michael Gott has a lot of student debt. Unlike most medical students, his family possesses the baseball that Yankees slugger Lou Gehrig hit for a home run during the 1928 World Series. Not for long, though, because Gott's mother is selling the ball to help pay off her son's loans.

By early Friday, bidding for the famous ball had reached more than $33,000, but Hunt Auctions of Exton, Penn., which is handling the sale, expects to fetch $100,000 to $200,000 for the ball, which flew into the bleachers on Oct. 5, 1928, in the second game of the series.

"It should be in the hands of someone who really loves it and has a passion for it," Gott's mother, Elizabeth Gott, told the Associated Press. "Right now we have a passion for my son and his career."

According to a description of the ball on the Hunt Auctions website, the ball is extraordinarily valuable for a number of reasons: It has been in the hands of the same family for 84 years. It comes with accompanying newspaper articles detailing the famous hit and the manner in which the ball fell into the hands of a young man named Buddy Kurland, who was Elizabeth Gott's great-uncle. And it involved some of baseball's most legendary players.

Babe Ruth was among the Yankee teammates on base when Gehrig hit the three-run homer, helping the Yankees to a 9-3 victory over St. Louis. New York went on to win the series, but Gehrig's career was cut short when he was diagnosed with amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, the disease that killed him in 1941 and that is now referred to commonly as Lou Gehrig's disease.

For years, the baseball sat on display in the window of Buddy Kurland's shop in South Manchester, Conn., but eventually it ended up in a drawer in Elizabeth Gott's Stamford, Conn., home. With her 30-year-old son's medical school loans nearing $200,000, she said, it seemed like the right time to sell the ball.

While valuable, the ball isn't nearly as pricey as some other bits of baseball history. According to Hunt, its sales in recent years have included a 1933 All-Star Game inaugural home run baseball that sold for $805,000, as well as Babe Ruth's 702nd home run ball from 1934, which fetched $264,500 at auction.

“I think what we enjoy about handling pieces like this is they really … bear the significance of baseball within American culture in the last 100-plus years,” Hunt president David Hunt told the AP. "Unlike any other sport, baseball has that just unbelievably storied history.”
Awesome collectible. Worn #4 all my life. Holy Grail stuff.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on October 06, 2014, 07:56:37 AM
Awesome collectible. Worn #4 all my life. Holy Grail stuff.

How much would you pay for it (if you had unlimited resources)?  

In another thread I accused PrimeMuscle of "not getting it."  I confess this is one of those things that I just don't get: paying huge sums for ostensibly rare items that have no intrinsic value.  I grew up reading comics and love them, but would I pay big money to own Action Comics #1 featuring Superman, even if I were very wealthy?  No.  Hyper expensive clothes or jewelry does not interest me in the slightest.  More to the point, no salesperson or third party can make me believe a random or routine object is worth a hyper inflated price because it is rare, collectable, or old such that I would pay big money for it.  Obviously, there is a marketplace and people for such things, but I am not among them. ::)


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on October 10, 2014, 02:49:52 AM
Bad Credit? Big Problem
By THE EDITORIAL BOARD

Millions of Americans have lousy credit. Some lost their jobs in the 2008 financial crisis and survived on credit cards. Some left college buried in loans. Others live in minority neighborhoods that are preyed upon by unscrupulous lenders. Still others had the bad luck to be sick and uninsured. Does membership in the undiscriminating club of beleaguered borrowers inevitably make someone a risky hire or an unreliable employee? Hardly. Does it justify the increasingly common practice of employers using credit checks to reject prospective hires? No.

A bill banning employment discrimination based on someone’s credit history has been offered in the New York City Council by Brad Lander, who says the misuse of credit reports in hiring is based on a damaging perception, disproved by research, that bad credit risks make bad employees. He points to studies that show no correlation between damaged credit and job performance or the likelihood of committing fraud. Mr. Lander is not the first lawmaker to reach this conclusion; similar legislation has passed in at least 10 states and was introduced in Congress by Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts.

The City Council bill has wide support, but Mr. Lander fears it may be weakened by the addition of exceptions and loopholes for certain industries or occupations, as has been done in some states. That would undermine its ability to combat this form of discrimination. The worst of the recession is behind us, but the damage lives on for millions of Americans who are hobbled by bad credit. The injury is made worse when companies rely on stereotypes and misinformation to exclude deserving workers from the job market.

New York could be a leader in reversing this unsavory trend; the Council and Mayor Bill de Blasio should unite behind this worthwhile bill.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on November 13, 2014, 09:33:16 AM
Debts Canceled by Bankruptcy Still Mar Consumer Credit Scores
By Jessica Silver-Greenberg

In the netherworld of consumer debt, there are zombies: bills that cannot be killed even by declaring personal bankruptcy.

Tens of thousands of Americans who went through bankruptcy are still haunted by debts long after — sometimes as long as a decade after — federal judges have extinguished the bills in court.

The problem, state and federal officials suspect, is that some of the nation’s biggest banks ignore bankruptcy court discharges, which render the debts void. Paying no heed to the courts, the banks keep the debts alive on credit reports, essentially forcing borrowers to make payments on bills that they do not legally owe.

The practice — a subtle but powerful tactic that effectively holds the credit report hostage until borrowers pay — potentially breathes new life into the pools of bad debt that are bought by financial firms.

Now lawyers with the United States Trustee Program, an arm of the Justice Department, are investigating JPMorgan Chase, Bank of America, Citigroup and Synchrony Financial, formerly known as GE Capital Retail Finance, suspecting the banks of violating federal bankruptcy law by ignoring the discharge injunction, say people briefed on the investigations.

The banks say that they comply with all federal laws in their collection and sale of debt.

Still, federal judges have started to raise alarms that some banks are threatening the foundations of bankruptcy.

Judge Robert D. Drain of the federal bankruptcy court in White Plains said in one opinion that debt buyers know that a bank “will refuse to correct the credit report to reflect the obligor’s bankruptcy discharge, which means that the debtor will feel significant added pressure to obtain a ‘clean’ report by paying the debt,” according to court documents.

For the debt buyers and the banks, the people briefed on the investigations said, it is a mutually beneficial arrangement: The banks typically send along any payments that they receive from borrowers to the debt buyers, which in turn, are more willing to buy portfolios of soured debts — including many that will wind up voided in bankruptcy — from the banks.

In bankruptcy, people undergo intense financial scrutiny — every bank account, bill and possession is assessed by the bankruptcy courts — to win the discharge injunction, which extinguishes certain debts and grants a fresh start. The heavy toll of personal bankruptcy, which can tarnish a credit report for a decade and put some loans out of reach, is worthless, bankruptcy judges say, if lenders ignore the discharge.

At the center of the investigation, the people briefed on it said, is the way banks report debts to the credit reporting agencies. Once a borrower voids a debt in bankruptcy, creditors are required to update credit reports to reflect that the debt is no longer owed, removing any notation of “past due” or “charged off.”

But the banks routinely fail to do that, according to the people briefed on the investigation, as well as interviews with more than three dozen borrowers who have discharged debts in bankruptcy and a review of bankruptcy records in seven states.

The errors are not clerical mistakes, but debt-collection tactics, current and former bankruptcy judges suspect. The banks refuse to fix the mistakes, the borrowers say, unless they pay for the purged debts. And many borrowers end up paying, given that they have so much at stake — the tarnished credit reports showing they still owe a debt can cost them a new loan, housing or a job. The Vogts, a couple in Denver, for example, paid JPMorgan $2,582 on a debt that was discharged in bankruptcy because they needed a clean credit report to get a mortgage.

There are many more who make payments on debts that they no longer legally owe, but never alert anyone because they do not realize the practice is illegal or cannot afford to litigate.

Humberto Soto, a 51-year-old unemployed hospital worker who went through bankruptcy in 2012, said he was almost one of those people who paid. In January, he was rejected for a Brooklyn apartment after the housing agency pulled his credit, which was tarnished by $6,411 on a Chase credit card, according to a letter from the agency, a copy of which was reviewed by The New York Times.

When he called JPMorgan, Mr. Soto said, he was told that the black mark would remain unless he paid. “It was either pay or lose the apartment,” he said. But after his bankruptcy lawyer explained the situation to the rental agency, Mr. Soto ultimately did not pay. (He got the apartment.)

JPMorgan and the three other banks declined to comment for this article, citing pending litigation in federal bankruptcy court in White Plains.

But the banks have offered defenses in court documents filed in conjunction with those lawsuits brought by Charles Juntikka, a bankruptcy lawyer in Manhattan, and George F. Carpinello, a partner with Boies, Schiller & Flexner. Those lawsuits — seeking class-action status on behalf of the borrowers — accuse the banks of bolstering the value of their debt by refusing to erase debts that were discharged in bankruptcy.

The banks have moved to throw out the lawsuits, arguing that they comply with the law and accurately report discharged debts to the credit agencies. Their lawyers have argued that the banks typically sell off debts to third-party debt buyers, and have no interest in recouping payments on the stale debts.

Some bankruptcy judges, however, have questioned whether the banks’ sale of the debts is precisely what the problem is.

Judge Drain, who is presiding over the cases, posited that the banks’ ability to sell the soured debts depends on ignoring the bankruptcy discharge in order to collect money from people who don’t have to legally pay it.

In July, the judge refused to throw out the lawsuit against JPMorgan, saying that the “complaint sets forth a cause of action that Chase is using the inaccuracy of its credit reporting on a systematic basis to further its business of selling debts and its buyer’s collection of such debt.”

During a hearing last year on a related case, transcripts show, Judge Drain said, “I might refer this, if the facts come out as counsel’s alleging, to the U.S. attorney,” for criminal prosecution.

Newly unsealed court documents reviewed by The Times illustrate how the banks handle payments from borrowers on stale debts, including those voided in bankruptcy. In contracts with debt buyers that were filed with the court, the banks outline the steps they will take when payments are made on charged-off debts.

In one contract between FIA Card Services, a subsidiary of Bank of America, and a debt buyer, the seller can keep any payments it receives 18 months or later after the sale. Before then, the contract shows, the lender will send any payments to the debt buyer.

Another contract between JPMorgan and a debt buyer allows the bank to keep a percentage — the exact amount is redacted in the court’s copy of the contract — of any payments sent in on the debts.

Those contracts shed light on the shadowy market of soured debts, including tens of billions of dollars that were voided in bankruptcy. Some banks sell off long overdue bills, which eventually wind up being extinguished in bankruptcy after the sale, for steeply discounted prices to debt buyers.

None of the banks specifically outline how much of their overdue loans are sold to debt buyers, but a review of publicly traded debts buyers like the PRA Group in Norfolk, Va., shows that the sums of bad debt bought and sold are vast. Since 1996 the company has bought more than 36 million accounts with a face value of $81.3 billion. Roughly 16 percent of those accounts — with a face value of $23.4 billion — are bankruptcy debts.

If the United States Trustee’s office determines the banks have violated bankruptcy law, say the people briefed on the investigations, they could audit the lenders and extract steep penalties.

The costs are more immediate for people like Bernadette Gatling, a 46-year-old hospital administrator whose credit report is still marred by Chase credit-card debts that were voided in bankruptcy three years ago. Since being laid off in March, Ms. Gatling said she has lost one job opportunity after another because potential employers pull her credit report.

“It’s just so unfair,” she said.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on July 30, 2016, 06:14:30 AM
Thinking About Co-Signing a Loan? Proceed With Caution
By ANN CARRNS

Parents and family members may think they are simply lending a helping hand by co-signing a car loan or credit card application for a child. But they are, in effect, agreeing to pay back the debt themselves — and they often end up doing so.

Well over a third of co-signers — 38 percent — had to pay some or all of the bill because the main borrower didn’t pay, according to a survey published this week by the card comparison site CreditCards.com. Credit scores dropped for more than a quarter of co-signers because the borrower paid late or missed a payment.

About one in six adults has co-signed a loan or credit card application for someone else. About half of those who co-signed did so on behalf of a child or stepchild. A common situation was someone over age 50 co-signing a child’s car loan.

“It can be a good way, if you trust the person, to give them a leg up,” said Matt Schulz, senior industry analyst for CreditCards.com, noting that his own father co-signed the loan for his first car when he graduated from college.

But co-signers need to be aware of the potential risks. When you co-sign a loan, you are contractually responsible to pay the loan if the borrower doesn’t, said Rod Griffin, director of public education with the credit bureau Experian.

In essence, Mr. Griffin said, you’re signing the loan because the lender thinks the borrower doesn’t qualify for some reason. “You’re vouching for that loan,” he said. “That’s a very high-risk thing to do.”

The survey found that auto loans accounted for half of all co-signings, and student loans accounted for 19 percent. Many private student lenders require co-signers, since students are usually borrowing the money based on their future earning potential, rather than current income, said Persis Yu, director of the Student Loan Borrower Assistance Project, a program of the National Consumer Law Center. But, Ms. Yu said, “A lot of people don’t realize what they’re getting into.” Parents or grandparents may think that they are providing a sort of character reference for the student, she said, rather than committing themselves to repaying the debt.

When someone asks you to co-sign a loan, consider his or her track record in paying back debt on time, said Dennis Johnson, a certified credit counselor in St. Louis with ClearPoint Credit Counseling Solutions. “Even if the person has the best intentions to pay it back and keep the loan in good standing,” he said, that person may be seeking a co-signer precisely because of trouble doing so in the past.

(For the survey, Princeton Survey Research Associates International surveyed more than 2,000 adults by telephone in mid-April and early May. The margin of sampling error is plus or minus 3 percentage points.)

Here are some questions and answers about co-signing a loan:

Can co-signing a loan affect my credit rating?

Yes. Even if the borrower repays the loan on time, the loan typically will appear as an obligation on your credit report, Mr. Griffin said. That means lenders will consider that liability when you apply for a loan yourself. If the additional loan makes your overall debt appear high compared with your income, Mr. Johnson said, you may end up paying a higher interest rate on your own loan.

Can I remove myself as a co-signer?

Once you co-sign a loan or credit card application, Mr. Griffin said, it’s difficult to get out of the commitment, especially if there have been any late payments. “It’s highly unlikely the lender would allow you to change that contract,” Mr. Griffin said, since the reason a co-signer is required is to reduce the lender’s risk.

One possible way to extract yourself from a co-signer obligation on a car loan or mortgage is to have the borrower refinance the loan solely in his or her name, Mr. Johnson said. Credit cards are more difficult, he said, but it’s possible that once the card is at a zero balance, you could ask to be removed from the account. The card company can then decide whether to allow the main cardholder to remain as the sole name on the account, or whether to close the account and have the borrower reapply for a card separately.

Some private student lenders promote the option to have co-signers released from their obligation after the borrower meets criteria like making a year or more of on-time payments. But in practice, it can be difficult to obtain a release on a student loan, according to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.

How can I protect myself as a co-signer?

The Federal Trade Commission suggests that you try to negotiate specific terms of your obligation before agreeing to co-sign. For instance, you can ask to limit your liability to the principal on the loan, and exclude any extra costs like late fees or court costs. If you’re successful, ask the lender to include a statement in the contract. For instance, the Federal Trade Commission suggests this language, “The co-signer will be responsible only for the principal balance on this loan at the time of default.”

After you co-sign the loan, you should stay in touch with the borrower to make sure payments are being made on time, Mr. Griffin said. If that’s not possible, you can contact the lender to verify the loan’s status, he said. You can also check your credit report periodically, to see if any late payments have posted. Mr. Johnson advises doing so at least every three to six months.


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: BayGBM on August 15, 2016, 04:03:21 AM
How Millennials Became Spooked by Credit Cards
By NATHANIEL POPPER

Kids these days: They just aren’t pulling out the plastic like they did in the past.

Data from the Federal Reserve indicates that the percentage of Americans under 35 who hold credit card debt has fallen to its lowest level since 1989, when the Fed began collecting data in a standardized way, according to an analysis by The New York Times.

Some older Americans have also been shedding credit card debt since the financial crisis that began in 2008. But for no other age group has the decline in the proportion holding credit card debt been more rapid than it has been for young Americans — who are often referred to as millennials — the data from the Survey of Consumer Finances shows.

“It’s pretty clear that young people are not interested in becoming indebted in the way that their parents are or were,” said David Robertson, the publisher of The Nilson Report, a newsletter that tracks the payment industry.

Their reluctance could have lasting repercussions for millennials, as well as for the financial system and the economy. Early use of credit cards has, in the past, helped young Americans develop a comfort level with credit that can last a lifetime and lead to a succession of big purchases financed by debt. Without a substantial credit history, it is much harder to take out a home mortgage, for example.

“It will probably take them longer to get access to credit,” said Gregory Elliehausen, an economist at the Federal Reserve specializing in consumer finance. “In the meantime, their behavior and some of their habits will have already been formed.”

Over all, Americans’ use of credit cards has recently been creeping up again: Household debt in the United States increased by $35 billion, to $12.29 trillion, during the second quarter of 2016, a 0.3 percent rise from the previous quarter that was driven by credit cards and auto loans, according to a report released on Tuesday by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.

Banks say that their credit card operations are running at full tilt, and that in recent months the number of people having trouble paying their bills has been at record lows.

But many younger people have been sitting on the sidelines, deterred by new laws passed after the crisis and big loads of student debt. They are also spooked by the temptation that credit cards offer to spend beyond one’s means.

Jason Towner, a 32-year-old who works at a private equity firm, cut up his last credit card, from Capital One, in 2010. He did not have any unruly debts, but he had just watched his father and sister close the family furniture store after a bank cut off their credit line in the middle of the financial crisis.

“I was seeing what was happening around the world, and what was happening in my backyard, and I was thinking, ‘This is not a great idea,’” Mr. Towner said recently.

The resurgence of overall credit card use in the United States over the last year or two has been driven largely by subprime borrowers, according to the Federal Reserve, which has not looked at the recent growth in borrowing by age.

But it is clear to economists who study payment patterns that millennials are gravitating toward payment methods that skirt both cash and credit. Why carry cash when you can whip out a debit card for the smallest transaction — a sandwich or a bottle of soda — or use an app like Venmo or an online payment service like PayPal? All of those typically draw funds directly from a bank account.

Mr. Elliehausen of the Federal Reserve said he expected the aversion to debt among young Americans to continue, potentially with a downside. Credit cards are frequently necessary for the bigger purchases — like washing machines and computers — that can make households more efficient and help the economy grow. And credit cards are usually an essential part of the credit history that allows someone to borrow to buy a house.

Only 37 percent of American households headed by someone aged 35 and under held credit card debt in 2013, the most recent year for which data from the Survey of Consumer Finances is available, down by nearly a quarter from immediately before the financial crisis. That statistic may undercount young cardholders to some extent, as it excludes people under 35 who live with their parents.

But more recent data has also suggested that millennials are using credit cards less than people of a similar age did in the past — and that they are taking on fewer auto loans and mortgage loans than people of similar age did before the financial crisis.

Rebecca Liebman, 23, graduated from Bentley University in 2015 with a load of student debt. She avoided getting a credit card until earlier this year, and did so then only because she kept hearing about how she would need to build up her credit history if she ever hoped to get a mortgage.

“I don’t want to use a credit card irresponsibly, and because of that, it’s scarier to use,” she said. “I grew up — I saw 2008 — I saw my dad get laid off. I don’t trust the financial market.”

Today Ms. Liebman is a founder of a financial literacy site for millennials, LearnLux, and the reluctant holder of a Discover card. Even after getting the card, it took her five months to overcome her ingrained aversion to debt and make her first purchase — a physical wallet.

She understands what the aversion will mean for her and for her customers.

“It’s going to make me buy a home a lot later in life,” Ms. Liebman said. “It think it will impact a lot of big decisions and push them further out. There are some things that are going to be specific to our generation around financial decision-making for sure.”

The reasons for the shift are varied: Like Ms. Liebman, many young people carry burdensome loads of student debt, making it hard for them to take on any more debt — and giving them a sour taste in their mouths when it comes to credit of any sort. The average American under 35 now has $17,200 of student debt, 182 percent more than Americans of the same age had in 1995, the Fed data shows.

On a more practical level, laws passed after the financial crisis made it much harder for younger people to secure cards unless they could prove they had the income to pay the bills. The tents that credit card companies used to pitch all over college campuses — offering students free T-shirts when they signed up for cards — have largely disappeared.

Then there are the young professionals who are able to get a card, but have seen the strain that debt put on their families and friends during the financial crisis.

Mr. Towner, whose job in private equity involves lending money to small businesses, is a prime example. To him, the risks involved with debt outweigh the benefits, so he tends to use Venmo and PayPal, or, whenever possible, cash. When he bought his apartment in Berkeley, Calif., he chose a foreclosure and paid with money he had in the bank.

“I don’t want to go out and buy, buy, buy, even though that’s what society wants me to do,” Mr. Towner said. “I want to save and invest for the long term.”


Title: Re: Would you seriously date someone who you knew had a bad credit score?
Post by: Doug_Steele on August 15, 2016, 07:15:49 AM
I hope Methyl Mike learned his lesson.  :D