Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Positive Bodybuilding Discussion & Talk => Topic started by: Deicide on March 15, 2008, 04:18:20 AM
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realised you had shitty genetics and you never will be big and ripped?
It happened to me... :-\
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I have good genetics but the dedication is too much for my weak mind to endure.
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I have good genetics but the dedication is too much for my weak mind to endure.
We can trade..I have the dedication...just not the Gs...gimme your frickin' Gs man! >:( ;D
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realised you had shitty genetics and you never will be big and ripped?
It happened to me... :-\
To what are you comparing yourself?
I have felt the same as you do at various times – I certainly don’t look like an NPC pro.
But compared to where I was when I started at 129 lbs. soaking wet, I’ve made leaps and bounds.
So maybe you’re not “HUGE & RIPPED” like a top 5 “O” competitor. Surely you’ve made some improvements over time.
There’s more than one way to look at most things.
And it’s pointless beating yourself up because you’re not in an elite/rare class of people who have phenomenal genetics, access to the best drugs, and a superior response to those drugs.
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I have fairly decent genetics and certainly the drive but not the money when I was younger to afford to purchase shit loads of gear to push me on further. For a natural I'd like to think I've got a pretty good physique. I've been training since I was fifteen and if I'd started taking gear at say 18 or 19 then I reckon I could have done well onstage. Obviously I don't think I'd have become a pro or anything like that but I reckon enough to win a few high level amateur contests. When I finally did start using, my gains were great but again the money held me back. Not to mention the side effects as well.
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I have fairly decent genetics and certainly the drive but not the money when I was younger to afford to purchase shit loads of gear to push me on further. For a natural I'd like to think I've got a pretty good physique. I've been training since I was fifteen and if I'd started taking gear at say 18 or 19 then I reckon I could have done well onstage. Obviously I don't think I'd have become a pro or anything like that but I reckon enough to win a few high level amateur contests. When I finally did start using, my gains were great but again the money held me back. Not to mention the side effects as well.
I started late at 25. :-\
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To what are you comparing yourself?
I have felt the same as you do at various times – I certainly don’t look like an NPC pro.
But compared to where I was when I started at 129 lbs. soaking wet, I’ve made leaps and bounds.
So maybe you’re not “HUGE & RIPPED” like a top 5 “O” competitor. Surely you’ve made some improvements over time.
There’s more than one way to look at most things.
And it’s pointless beating yourself up because you’re not in an elite/rare class of people who have phenomenal genetics, access to the best drugs, and a superior response to those drugs.
Compared to where I was when I started...sure...but now at 30 my only real goal to get lean and stay that way...can't put on any more muscle..not really anyway, too old, genetics too bad...
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Compared to where I was when I started...sure...but now at 30 my only real goal to get lean and stay that way...can't put on any more muscle..not really anyway, too old, genetics too bad...
Since you have not achieved your goals on your own maybe you should have someone here like Luv2hurt or some other helpful competitor write you up a diet/eating plan and give you a workout to follow.
I worked out for years but never got in as good shape as I did when I had someone who knew what they were doing give me a diet and workouts.
What you are doing is not getting you what you want. You say you know how your body responds but it's still not where you want it to be after 5 years.
You may not ever be as big as you'd like but there are people that can help you get leaner through a proper diet and exercise. You may just want to give someone else's plan a try for say 10 weeks and see if you make improvements toward your goals.
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Since you have not achieved your goals on your own maybe you should have someone here like Luv2hurt or some other helpful competitor write you up a diet/eating plan and give you a workout to follow.
I worked out for years but never got in as good shape as I did when I had someone who knew what they were doing give me a diet and workouts.
What you are doing is not getting you what you want. You say you know how your body responds but it's still not where you want it to be after 5 years.
You may not ever be as big as you'd like but there are people that can help you get leaner through a proper diet and exercise. You may just want to give someone else's plan a try for say 10 weeks and see if you make improvements toward your goals.
Well...my goal now is to shed body fat and I am doing that...although today was a carb loading day... ;D
I have tried other diet forms and the high carb stuff you and others use does NOT get me results...genetics...ya know...
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Well...my goal now is to shed body fat and I am doing that...although today was a carb loading day... ;D
I have tried other diet forms and the high carb stuff you and others use does NOT get me results...genetics...ya know...
Most people wouldn't call it high carb ;D
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Most people wouldn't call it high carb ;D
For me...anything over 20 or so grams is high carb....
I should clarify though...when I started I was a fat piece of shit balloon. Now my body composition is entirely different. I have (for my genetics and considering where I came from) a half way decent upper body and pretty good legs....so I was able to pack on some mass in 5 years, enough so that, when I have dieted off the fat, I think I will look decent enough to present myself at a swimming pool or other public place without shame. So now it is up to me to stick to it long enough...just a matter of will power and endurance, 4 more months or so...I suppose...
For those who think you NEED carbs...read this...
http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/1/1/2#IDAZAUFE
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Check out Pumping Iron where Arnold is doing cables for pecs and the skinny blond guy, in back of him, is gazing at him...you can tell he is thinking, "Shit, man, I may as well quit right now :)
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my genetics suck! i was born into a family of shortness and baldness! :'( anyway, i started lifting just to feel better about myself and to look better. i'm not all that displeased with myself now. i get compliments from people i haven't seen in a long time who remember me when i was "small & puny". (i'm 5'6, 190lbs now. i used to be about 145-150lbs when i first stared really working out.) i love it when people notice it and say, "have you been hittin' the weights? you look good. you really bulked up!" ;D
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For me...anything over 20 or so grams is high carb....
I should clarify though...when I started I was a fat piece of shit balloon. Now my body composition is entirely different. I have (for my genetics and considering where I came from) a half way decent upper body and pretty good legs....so I was able to pack on some mass in 5 years, enough so that, when I have dieted off the fat, I think I will look decent enough to present myself at a swimming pool or other public place without shame. So now it is up to me to stick to it long enough...just a matter of will power and endurance, 4 more months or so...I suppose...
For those who think you NEED carbs...read this...
http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/1/1/2#IDAZAUFE
I appreciate the link De......I have good genetics and am bigger than alot of drug users but lost dieting interest 10 yrs ago. I may give this keto fat diet a try as carbs make me fat and make me crave more carbs... 8)
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I appreciate the link De......I have good genetics and am bigger than alot of drug users but lost dieting interest 10 yrs ago. I may give this keto fat diet a try as carbs make me fat and make me crave more carbs... 8)
The ketogenic diet is really something totally natural as indicated by the link. Many cultures live their entire lives in ketosis.
What seems to work for me is the following and offer the following advice.
First three weeks, eat 0 carbs. That means getting a ZERO carb whey isolate (easy enough where you are in the USA) and just eating meat and fish. Don't be a afraid of fat! To enter ketosis you must consume a fair amount of fat as shown in the studies as well. Get fiber tabs as well.
After three weeks you can carb load if you want; my current scheme, which is working well is 6 days 0-20 grams of carbs and 1 day I carb load. You will lose some strength on lifting days due to depleted glycogen reserves but the difference isn't all that great. If you are really hardcore, you can forget about the carb loading days and go straight through with ketosis the whole time...make sure to eat a head of broccoli every now and then and get lots of fish and flax oil. When you are eating that lamb the next time with the fat rim, EAT the fat rim with it. Good luck. It just takes a lot will power.
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Is this how the Cannibals stay thin?
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Is this how the Cannibals stay thin?
No, Inuits and various tribes of Northern Canada however....
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The ketogenic diet is really something totally natural as indicated by the link. Many cultures live their entire lives in ketosis.
What seems to work for me is the following and offer the following advice.
First three weeks, eat 0 carbs. That means getting a ZERO carb whey isolate (easy enough where you are in the USA) and just eating meat and fish. Don't be a afraid of fat! To enter ketosis you must consume a fair amount of fat as shown in the studies as well. Get fiber tabs as well.
After three weeks you can carb load if you want; my current scheme, which is working well is 6 days 0-20 grams of carbs and 1 day I carb load. You will lose some strength on lifting days due to depleted glycogen reserves but the difference isn't all that great. If you are really hardcore, you can forget about the carb loading days and go straight through with ketosis the whole time...make sure to eat a head of broccoli every now and then and get lots of fish and flax oil. When you are eating that lamb the next time with the fat rim, EAT the fat rim with it. Good luck. It just takes a lot will power.
The study stated that after the first week or so you should get your strength and energy back.......Is this true for you? (Maybe not if you carb load at times right?) Also how much weight or fat have you lost and how much per week??
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Compared to where I was when I started...sure...but now at 30 my only real goal to get lean and stay that way...can't put on any more muscle..not really anyway, too old, genetics too bad...
Too old? You just turned 30 last month. That is anything but too old.
I reached my biggest and strongest at age 32, tipping the scales at 252 lbs. Now, my goal is to be just as strong, check that, STRONGER than I was then but leaner when I turn 35. Right now, I'm at 230.
There are no monsters in my family, as I come from an ectomorphic bunch. But believe me, when it comes to gaining size, you are anything but washed up at age 30.
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The first time I did a ketogenic diet I lost 35 pounds in 2 months. Years later I tried again and lost maybe 10 lbs. I went on low carb and massive cardio and lost 70 lbs. Weak as hell when I started to lift again. I have found to maintain strength and bodyweight to eat 1600 or so calories during the week and whatever I want 1 or 2 days a week. Kinda like carb loading but really a calorie load.
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Check out Pumping Iron where Arnold is doing cables for pecs and the skinny blond guy, in back of him, is gazing at him...you can tell he is thinking, "Shit, man, I may as well quit right now :)
Shit,I thought you were going to say that you were that blond guy ;D
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The first time I did a ketogenic diet I lost 35 pounds in 2 months. Years later I tried again and lost maybe 10 lbs. I went on low carb and massive cardio and lost 70 lbs. Weak as hell when I started to lift again. I have found to maintain strength and bodyweight to eat 1600 or so calories during the week and whatever I want 1 or 2 days a week. Kinda like carb loading but really a calorie load.
That tends to be the case, from what I've experienced. The initial shock to your system shears the pounds right off. I dropped 12 lbs. the first 10 days I went on a low-carb diet.
One thing you can do to keep your strength up is to keep up the creatine intake. It worked well for me, however, initially I was using a creatine product with no carb (V-12). When I ran out of that, all I had left was two large jugs and one small jug of CELL-TECH that I'd bought a few months earlier. After being frustrated with the strength loss, from the low carbs and no creatine, I decide to start using CELL-TECH again.
However, I simply did a balancing act. I cut my carbs from my regular meals, to allow for those contained in one of my favorite supplements.
Give that a try (with either CELL-TECH or whatever your favorite creatine product is) and see if it helps keep that strength up for you.
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That tends to be the case, from what I've experienced. The initial shock to your system shears the pounds right off. I dropped 12 lbs. the first 10 days I went on a low-carb diet.
One thing you can do to keep your strength up is to keep up the creatine intake. It worked well for me, however, initially I was using a creatine product with no carb (V-12). When I ran out of that, all I had left was two large jugs and one small jug of CELL-TECH that I'd bought a few months earlier. After being frustrated with the strength loss, from the low carbs and no creatine, I decide to start using CELL-TECH again.
However, I simply did a balancing act. I cut my carbs from my regular meals, to allow for those contained in one of my favorite supplements.
Give that a try (with either CELL-TECH or whatever your favorite creatine product is) and see if it helps keep that strength up for you.
What got my strength up was doing a cycle of Test.
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The study stated that after the first week or so you should get your strength and energy back.......Is this true for you? (Maybe not if you carb load at times right?) Also how much weight or fat have you lost and how much per week??
In general yes.
With the following caveat:
Both observational and prospectively designed studies support the conclusion that submaximal endurance performance can be sustained despite the virtual exclusion of carbohydrate from the human diet. Clearly this result does not automatically follow the casual implementation of dietary carbohydrate restriction, however, as careful attention to time for keto-adaptation, mineral nutriture, and constraint of the daily protein dose is required. Contradictory results in the scientific literature can be explained by the lack of attention to these lessons learned (and for the most part now forgotten) by the cultures that traditionally lived by hunting. Therapeutic use of ketogenic diets should not require constraint of most forms of physical labor or recreational activity, with the one caveat that anaerobic (ie, weight lifting or sprint) performance is limited by the low muscle glycogen levels induced by a ketogenic diet, and this would strongly discourage its use under most conditions of competitive athletics.
Because weight lifting is anaerobic and the glycogen reserves are not there to fuel your workouts, you will be a little weaker and also should NOT go all out. But these aren't very important points since you wish to lose fat; keep your strength in the generally same area, don't train to failure and stick to a short workout plan, incoporating large compound movements. That has been woking for me. I am doing HST in the following manner:
Dumbbell Shoulder Press x3
Latpulldown x3 (suppinated grip)
Dumbbell Benchpress x3
Alternating Deadlifts x3/Squats (ass to grass)x3
Crunches/ Leg Lifts/Calf Raises
I am finished, depending on the rep scheme (15, 10 or 5) in 45 to 30 minutes. Keep the workouts short, relatively intense because of the minimal muscle glycogen and you will be fine.
I am being careful and am dropping 1 kg of fat a week because any faster and it isn't really healthy or sustainable. I am in it for the long haul, another 4 or 5 months. Patience is a virtue. So I am shooting to drop 15 to 16 more kg.
The other thing is...fiber. Get fibertabs. At the start of the week you weigh x kg and at the end you weigh x but your waistline looks visibly slimmer; you don't shit very often so you keep a lot of weight in you. Also If you engage in carb loading, don't be surprised if you are 4kg heavier than the day before. Carbs store water.
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Too old? You just turned 30 last month. That is anything but too old.
Agreed; i told him this already. Age 30 with 5 years of training isn't a bad place to be, plenty of time to realize potential with the right training, nutrition and dedication. No excuses about the age my man, get to it. ;)
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realised you had shitty genetics and you never will be big and ripped?
It happened to me... :-\
your just weak minded.
ANYONE can get 'ripped'. its called diet and cardio.
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your just weak minded.
ANYONE can get 'ripped'. its called diet and cardio.
THats a good way of thinking brother I would rather have poor genetics then a weak mind as genetics can be altered very easily.
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your just weak minded.
ANYONE can get 'ripped'. its called diet and cardio.
Youre a dumbfvck candy. Anyone can get ripped. But finding youre a skinny ass troll, with no muscle is almost as bad as being a fat bodybuilder.....
Shit man you dont even look like youve ever lifted in a shirt anymore. You are lean and small, whereas you used to be fat and bulky, but never had any muscle to mention.
The point of this thread is finding out after years of lifting, that you have shitty genetics....like you do for example......good thing you jumped in to judge someone as you are the result of this thread title..... :-[
And slintown ...your moniker means you are a faker and a cheat and whatever gains you have made are not yours anyway...... ::)
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And slintown ...your moniker means you are a faker and a cheat and whatever gains you have made are not yours anyway...... ::)
WarHor, I agree with the rest of your post, but if I may speak for Slintowin, I believe he is full on diabetic, if I remember he has been his whole life.
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Youre a dumbfvck candy. Anyone can get ripped. But finding youre a skinny ass troll, with no muscle is almost as bad as being a fat bodybuilder.....
Shit man you dont even look like youve ever lifted in a shirt anymore. You are lean and small, whereas you used to be fat and bulky, but never had any muscle to mention.
The point of this thread is finding out after years of lifting, that you have shitty genetics....like you do for example......good thing you jumped in to judge someone as you are the result of this thread title..... :-[
And slintown ...your moniker means you are a faker and a cheat and whatever gains you have made are not yours anyway...... ::)
lol, yeah okay buddy....yup, im small and skinny with no muscle at all... yup yup yup
and you are a BEAST warhorse. please tell me how to get huge and ripped like you. please please please tell me your secret?
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Youre a dumbfvck candy. Anyone can get ripped. But finding youre a skinny ass troll, with no muscle is almost as bad as being a fat bodybuilder.....
Shit man you dont even look like youve ever lifted in a shirt anymore. You are lean and small, whereas you used to be fat and bulky, but never had any muscle to mention.
The point of this thread is finding out after years of lifting, that you have shitty genetics....like you do for example......good thing you jumped in to judge someone as you are the result of this thread title..... :-[
And slintown ...your moniker means you are a faker and a cheat and whatever gains you have made are not yours anyway...... ::)
Hmm Im not sure what you mean by this can you explain how somebody could fake gains or is this another jealous remark?
Thank you Chaos I am a diabetic and have been sense I can remember but then again maybe the insulin made me forget or Im faking that too according to war whore ::)
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steroids are magic, slin, dont you know?? they give you fake muscles.
::)
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WarHor, I agree with the rest of your post, but if I may speak for Slintowin, I believe he is full on diabetic, if I remember he has been his whole life.
Well i know he was a milos protege. I dont think you should call yourself slintown if you dont want some abuse around here. Drugs are a scourge to the sport and nothing to respect, but actually laughable.
He was braging on here when he first joined about getting ripped on doughnuts because of slin and some other shit.
Bragging about drug regimns and then saying "But i have to" is lame.
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Well i know he was a milos protege. I dont think you should call yourself slintown if you dont want some abuse around here. Drugs are a scourge to the sport and nothing to respect, but actually laughable.
He was braging on here when he first joined about getting ripped on doughnuts because of slin and some other shit.
Bragging about drug regimns and then saying "But i have to" is lame.
Ha you dipshit I am not nor have ever been Milos protege respect him yes he has always been very kind to me trained with him never And I have never ever said I dieted on doughnuts I do however diet on seven hundred grams carbs a day why dont you come to my seminar and we can chat about my bragging and such and maybe you could put me on time out for respecting Milos but as I remember you were at his seminar too does this mean you are his protege? ::)
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Hmm Im not sure what you mean by this can you explain how somebody could fake gains or is this another jealous remark?
Thank you Chaos I am a diabetic and have been sense I can remember but then again maybe the insulin made me forget or Im faking that too according to war whore ::)
Geez why do i bother? Let me explain. Your genetics are set at a limit. You can exceed that limit by the use of drugs. But when off drugs if you shrink back down then the size you had while "ON" is false. Hence the roller coaster and waste of time using drugs to entertain shmoes at shmoefests.....
got it? ::)
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Geez why do i bother? Let me explain. Your genetics are set at a limit. You can exceed that limit by the use of drugs. But when off drugs if you shrink back down then the size you had while "ON" is false. Hence the roller coaster and waste of time using drugs to entertain shmoes at shmoefests.....
got it? ::)
Sure your right but heres the funny thing I have been natural for over 5 months now and not lost any weight hmmm guess even you will have to admit its real huh
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Props for going clean. No gh, No t3, No estrogen blockers,pro hormones???? maintain for a year and cleanup in the natty shows bro. ;D
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I might just do that how about you are you much changed from the seminar PM me with your stats like name and stuff brother I dont remember who you were I know you were behind me and to the right
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I might just do that how about you are you much changed from the seminar PM me with your stats like name and stuff brother I dont remember who you were I know you were behind me and to the right
Nah, wasnt at the seminar.....maybe it was chaos?? Im just a big ol heavylifter who stayed clean and didnt fool himself that he had pro potential.. 8)
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Nah, wasnt at the seminar.....maybe it was chaos?? Im just a big ol heavylifter who stayed clean and didnt fool himself that he had pro potential.. 8)
It was me at the seminar.........I don't have pro potential, I don't want it, I just wanna lift weights and go home. :)
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Nah, wasnt at the seminar.....maybe it was chaos?? Im just a big ol heavylifter who stayed clean and didnt fool himself that he had pro potential.. 8)
Aww I see but tell me I have never met anyone who didn't have pro potential symply because their clean or could that be me just pretending and most people I know take showers so they stay clean but regardless if someone doesn't want to take a bath that doesn't mean they cant turn pro ;D
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Aww I see but tell me I have never met anyone who didn't have pro potential symply because their clean or could that be me just pretending and most people I know take showers so they stay clean but regardless if someone doesn't want to take a bath that doesn't mean they cant turn pro ;D
LOL. not bad.. ;)
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Just curious Decide,
If you always are living in ketosis how do you expect to gain muscle?
Correct me if I'm wrong I admit I only browsed this thread but I've always heard that if you live in ketosis you can't really put on muscle. Maybe that is why you haven't gotten out of weight training what you expected to get. In my opinion all this "genetics" talk is BS, if you eat alot (of good nutrition, or crappy for that matter) and weight train you will grow muscle (and fat) . ;D ;D ;D
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Just curious Decide,
If you always are living in ketosis how do you expect to gain muscle?
Correct me if I'm wrong I admit I only browsed this thread but I've always heard that if you live in ketosis you can't really put on muscle. Maybe that is why you haven't gotten out of weight training what you expected to get. In my opinion all this "genetics" talk is BS, if you eat alot (of good nutrition, or crappy for that matter) and weight train you will grow muscle (and fat) . ;D ;D ;D
you can grow muscle in ketosis. but you will be very flat, and you have to train heavy weights low reps.
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The ketogenic diet is really something totally natural as indicated by the link. Many cultures live their entire lives in ketosis.
What seems to work for me is the following and offer the following advice.
First three weeks, eat 0 carbs. That means getting a ZERO carb whey isolate (easy enough where you are in the USA) and just eating meat and fish. Don't be a afraid of fat! To enter ketosis you must consume a fair amount of fat as shown in the studies as well. Get fiber tabs as well.
After three weeks you can carb load if you want; my current scheme, which is working well is 6 days 0-20 grams of carbs and 1 day I carb load. You will lose some strength on lifting days due to depleted glycogen reserves but the difference isn't all that great. If you are really hardcore, you can forget about the carb loading days and go straight through with ketosis the whole time...make sure to eat a head of broccoli every now and then and get lots of fish and flax oil. When you are eating that lamb the next time with the fat rim, EAT the fat rim with it. Good luck. It just takes a lot will power.
if you are willing to listen..i have a few tips...
ketosis should not be the GOAL of a goodfat loss program, but rather it should be the effect. yu shouldnt worry about keeping your body in ketosis, diet correctly and youll be producing ketones most of the time regardless. carbing up every week is too long to wait, and weight training will over deplete your glycogen stores and you will risk losing muscle, especially if your doing cardio. i would suggest going zero carbs three days, then doing a moderate carb up every fourth day. carb up using waxy maize/whey isolate shakes on the carb up day. this will ensure that you are storing the carbs as glycogen and that you are utilizing the spikes in insulin to builld up some fat burning muscle. for your zero carb days, dont go the atkins route(high saturated fat), instead use lean protein sources, and healthy fat burning fats. if you can get udo's oil, use that. vpx also has a good product called thin fat. or you could just use olive oil, or peanuts, or almonds. take the fat first thing in the morning, and immidietly postworkoiut in your pwo shake. eat every three hours, 50 grams protein in some kind of lean meat along with a small serving of fibrous vegebtables. drink lots of water, do cardio every morning,, except for leg day,, 45 mins on an empty stomach, and also, once weight loss slows, do another 30 mins cardio immidietly following weight training before getting in your pwo workout shake.
take it or leave it bro...ive done alot of research on dieting and low carb and all of it... this is, IMO, by far the most effective way to lose fat, and youll make a little bit of muscle as well.
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Just curious Decide,
If you always are living in ketosis how do you expect to gain muscle?
Correct me if I'm wrong I admit I only browsed this thread but I've always heard that if you live in ketosis you can't really put on muscle. Maybe that is why you haven't gotten out of weight training what you expected to get. In my opinion all this "genetics" talk is BS, if you eat alot (of good nutrition, or crappy for that matter) and weight train you will grow muscle (and fat) . ;D ;D ;D
You should read the thread. I am not always living in Ketosis. I am on a 6/1 scheme for the purpose of dieting; when you diet you don't try to gain muscle, just retain and lose fat...read what I wrote and I am only doing ketosis for the purpose of dieting.
This thread has become an epic highjack.....isn't this board supposed to be clean and polite? >:(
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my genetics suck! i was born into a family of shortness and baldness! :'( anyway, i started lifting just to feel better about myself and to look better. i'm not all that displeased with myself now. i get compliments from people i haven't seen in a long time who remember me when i was "small & puny". (i'm 5'6, 190lbs now. i used to be about 145-150lbs when i first stared really working out.) i love it when people notice it and say, "have you been hittin' the weights? you look good. you really bulked up!" ;D
I find i get more of the, "Hey where did your neck go?" comments...kinda annoying. But hey, I go a big neck so i might as well go with it eh
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You should read the thread. I am not always living in Ketosis. I am on a 6/1 scheme for the purpose of dieting; when you diet you don't try to gain muscle, just retain and lose fat...read what I wrote and I am only doing ketosis for the purpose of dieting.
This thread has become an epic highjack.....isn't this board supposed to be clean and polite? >:(
???
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He means retain muscle and lose fat.
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He means retain muscle and lose fat.
yes, thats obvious.
im confused at why he would think that?
in the real world, not in the magazines, you can put on muscle as you lose body fat when you diet correctly. and thi is the best way to diet.
i know people are going to say "your an idiot. hahaha. the human body doesnt work like that. you can not gain muscle an dlose fat at the same time!" but, this is simply a misconception.
the two processes are not intertwined, and are only semi-conflicting.
check out kevin levrne, david henry, dexter jackso, jay cutler...all of those guys grow INTO shows. (yes, i know they are on gear, so its different, but the human body works the same whne your on gear OR off, you just wont GAIN as much, or LOSE as much when natural, as compared to a assisted BB'er.)
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yes, thats obvious.
im confused at why he would think that?
in the real world, not in the magazines, you can put on muscle as you lose body fat when you diet correctly. and thi is the best way to diet.
i know people are going to say "your an idiot. hahaha. the human body doesnt work like that. you can not gain muscle an dlose fat at the same time!" but, this is simply a misconception.
the two processes are not intertwined, and are only semi-conflicting.
check out kevin levrne, david henry, dexter jackso, jay cutler...all of those guys grow INTO shows. (yes, i know they are on gear, so its different, but the human body works the same whne your on gear OR off, you just wont GAIN as much, or LOSE as much when natural, as compared to a assisted BB'er.)
Reinventing the nutrition wheel I see again? ::)
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okay, buddy... do your your thing. im not going to try and sell you on my advice. you can take it orleavre it, your the one complaining about shitty "genetics" and never being able to get yourself cut up..... but i guess you know what your talking about/doing
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okay, buddy... do your your thing. im not going to try and sell you on my advice. you can take it orleavre it, your the one complaining about shitty "genetics" and never being able to get yourself cut up..... but i guess you know what your talking about/doing
I never really made a months long effort to get cut up. I am doing that now.
...
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I never really made a months long effort to get cut up. I am doing that now.
...
:o
Most naturals not already in very good condition needs 3 - 6 months to get into shape if they want to keep their muscle mass, strength and have a predictable fat/weight loss over time.
Fat naturals needs 7 -10 months of dieting to achieve the same stuff.
Naturals trying to get ripped in 2 - 3 months, unless in good condition won't make it. A 1 month effort to get ripped = worthless.
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morning cardio and maintanence calories with high protein intake , limited carbs(pre, post workout), and daily efa supplementaion would give you a small increase in muscle mass while losing body fat.
simple stuff.
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:o
Most naturals not already in very good condition needs 3 - 6 months to get into shape if they want to keep their muscle mass, strength and have a predictable fat/weight loss over time.
Fat naturals needs 7 -10 months of dieting to achieve the same stuff.
Naturals trying to get ripped in 2 - 3 months, unless in good condition won't make it. A 1 month effort to get ripped = worthless.
When I say months I mean up to a year if need be though I will have to take a maitenance break when I leave Korea until I am in a stable environment once more.
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(yes, i know they are on gear, so its different, but the human body works the same whne your on gear OR off,
quit already kid.....
I'm gettin to the point where I'm actually embarrased for ya
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quit already kid.....
I'm gettin to the point where I'm actually embarrased for ya
YOU obviously dont know shit
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I believe that all modesty I have decent genetics, ( pic of me last yr and I am now 49).
I placed in a big show after only 9 mos of actual training ( age 19) and have won a few state/regional ones , most with no drug use against guys that used.I did use small amounts from 83-86. I am not all that great but above avg.
I wanted to compete from the first time I picked up a wt.
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Shit,I thought you were going to say that you were that blond guy ;D
haha...no, sorry to disappoint!@... :)
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I believe that all modesty I have decent genetics, ( pic of me last yr and I am now 49).
I placed in a big show after only 9 mos of actual training ( age 19) and have won a few state/regional ones , most with no drug use against guys that used.I did use small amounts from 83-86. I am not all that great but above avg.
I wanted to compete from the first time I picked up a wt.
Any pics from your comps Howie?
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Any pics from your comps Howie?
Love the Avatar, Chaos ! LOL ! ;D
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you can gain muscle and lose fat simultaenously - sure - but good luck doing that when ur sub 10% bf and natty.
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you can gain muscle and lose fat simultaenously - sure - but good luck doing that when ur sub 10% bf and natty.
who say it has to be simultaneous?
how about eating slightly above maintanence calories for muscle growth , and then do morning cardio daily in order to lose body fat...
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who say it has to be simultaneous?
how about eating slightly above maintanence calories for muscle growth , and then do morning cardio daily in order to lose body fat...
Have this been done in any studies?
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Have this been done in any studies?
the studies i have done inside my head. ;D
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let me calrify...slightly above maintanence calories...
WITH the thermic effeect of feeding taken into account, AND with a very high protein intake, WITH 15-20 g fish oil daily, WITH limited carbs (pre post workout only)
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who say it has to be simultaneous?
how about eating slightly above maintanence calories for muscle growth , and then do morning cardio daily in order to lose body fat...
yes, that can be done in theory. but u wont really need the cardio at slightly above maintanence caloric intake, as u'd burn enough fat through weight training + putting on muscle.
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Fat Loss requires a caloric deficit...
Something someone wants to say that contradicts this FACT...?
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Fat Loss requires a caloric deficit...
Something someone wants to say that contradicts this FACT...?
well, yes and no. ever hear of the thermic effect of feeding? do you know where the calories for digesion come from? how about morning cardio done on an empty stomach..?
and what constitutes a caloric defecit???
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well, yes and no. ever hear of the thermic effect of feeding? do you know where the calories for digesion come from? how about morning cardio done on an empty stomach..?
and what constitutes a caloric defecit???
Caloric deficit= utilising more than you take in in terms of energy, i.e. calories.
If you take Trenbolon, then yes you can eat a lot and still melt off fat but a natural cannot do that. Either you lose fat, maintain or gain...three choices, all of which are mutually exclusive.
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Caloric deficit= utilising more than you take in in terms of energy, i.e. calories.
If you take Trenbolon, then yes you can eat a lot and still melt off fat but a natural cannot do that. Either you lose fat, maintain or gain...three choices, all of which are mutually exclusive.
so youve never heard of the thermic effect of feeding, huh?
let me fill you in.
digestion requires calories. certain foods take more than other. proteins take about 30% of ingested calories in order to digest , carbs and fats about 4%.... so lets say you eat 100 calories of protein, or 25 grams, in order to digest that protein it takes your body 30 calories. calories for digestion come straight out of body fat stores. regardless of if your in a "caloric defecit" or not.
so lets say you have a base metabolic rate of 2500 cals per day, and the capability to utilize 300 gams of protein per day. you eat a total of 2500 calories, 1200 of which are protein. from those 1200 calories of protein, you LOST 360 calories from your fat stores ini order for digestion to occur.
so you ate maintanence calories, built up muscle alll day long, but lost 360 cals of fat because of digestion.
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I believe that all modesty I have decent genetics, ( pic of me last yr and I am now 49).
I placed in a big show after only 9 mos of actual training ( age 19) and have won a few state/regional ones , most with no drug use against guys that used.I did use small amounts from 83-86. I am not all that great but above avg.
I wanted to compete from the first time I picked up a wt.
Howie...I am like you where I did better in competition without the stuff compared to when I used....you can check my comp pics on pics of members and more board in General section under Moosejay
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Howie...I am like you where I did better in competition without the stuff compared to when I used....you can check my comp pics on pics of members and more board in General section under Moosejay
Cool! I think that most of us can do just fine without the juice!
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Agreed
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Sorry decide i said that i admit i only browsed the thread i should have explained myself.
I thoroghly read your link....
http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/1/1/2#IDAZAUFE
then saw this....
The ketogenic diet is really something totally natural as indicated by the link. Many cultures live their entire lives in ketosis.
What seems to work for me is the following and offer the following advice.
First three weeks, eat 0 carbs. That means getting a ZERO carb whey isolate (easy enough where you are in the USA) and just eating meat and fish. Don't be a afraid of fat! To enter ketosis you must consume a fair amount of fat as shown in the studies as well. Get fiber tabs as well.
After three weeks you can carb load if you want; my current scheme, which is working well is 6 days 0-20 grams of carbs and 1 day I carb load. You will lose some strength on lifting days due to depleted glycogen reserves but the difference isn't all that great. If you are really hardcore, you can forget about the carb loading days and go straight through with ketosis the whole time...make sure to eat a head of broccoli every now and then and get lots of fish and flax oil. When you are eating that lamb the next time with the fat rim, EAT the fat rim with it. Good luck. It just takes a lot will power.
and assumed you were "living your whole life in ketosis" which prompted me to ask whether you could be shooting yourself in the foot or not.
No flame intended just trying to help...
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Love the Avatar, Chaos ! LOL ! ;D
Thanks :D
Now how about some of Howies comp pics ???
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Props for going clean. No gh, No t3, No estrogen blockers,pro hormones???? maintain for a year and cleanup in the natty shows bro. ;D
If he is a diabetic I doubt he will be anywhere near gh it would cause severe hyperglycemia in a diabetic.
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i wouldnt use the inuit's as an example. They have a high rate of circulatory disease, probably as a result of a diet that is 75% animal fats. You know any skinny eskimos?
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i got fucked thikin that too decide! saw arnie and lou on all the mags, the protein powder ads and i bought in to all that nonsense. i think arnie and joe should kick back some cash to all of us, sellin us B.S. back then joe and arnie lied thier asses of about the roid game. fuckers!!!!!
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i wouldnt use the inuit's as an example. They have a high rate of circulatory disease, probably as a result of a diet that is 75% animal fats. You know any skinny eskimos?
The Inuits do not follow their original diet. They consume alcohol and do not practise their former diet.
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i got fucked thikin that too decide! saw arnie and lou on all the mags, the protein powder ads and i bought in to all that nonsense. i think arnie and joe should kick back some cash to all of us, sellin us B.S. back then joe and arnie lied thier asses of about the roid game. fuckers!!!!!
Hahahaha...weightgainers powders. Mike mentzer said it was cake mix in a box......weider screwed us all.
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If he is a diabetic I doubt he will be anywhere near gh it would cause severe hyperglycemia in a diabetic.
Wrong do some research before you speak the only hyperglycemia that could happened is in anyones control its obvious you are not as much of a scientist as you think
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i knew i wouldnt get big, i just wanted to be strong. i dont care about size, i dont care about looks. i just want to be strong. lol i think the only thing that has gotten bigger was my arms, mainly b/c.. i was fat and i lost a lot of fat and now im starting to get bigger, not jacked.. but bigger
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i knew i wouldnt get big, i just wanted to be strong. i dont care about size, i dont care about looks. i just want to be strong.
i dont understand this kind of thinking at all..
can you explain to me why your driven to be "strong"..?
honsetly, no flame, im just curious as to the mindset of the "powerlifter"
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i dont care how i look i just want to be able to lift a lot
um..but why do i think this way...idk..i dont really know how to explain any of this.
i cant become huge b/c i need to be quick and i need to be able to run a lot
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i dont care how i look i just want to be able to lift a lot
um..but why do i think this way...idk..i dont really know how to explain any of this.
i cant become huge b/c i need to be quick and i need to be able to run a lot
oh, no prob man..just wondering, since ive personally never had any drive to be strong or get stronger on any of my lifts
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oh, no prob man..just wondering, since ive personally never had any drive to be strong or get stronger on any of my lifts
translation=you're naturally weak and you've talked yourself into believing that strength isn't important.
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translation=you're naturally weak and you've talked yourself into believing that strength isn't important.
It's not about how much you can life, but how much you look like you can lift.
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It's not about how much you can life, but how much you look like you can lift.
:)
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Ha:
Just like in marketing:
"It does not matter what is true, but what people THINK is true"
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translation=you're naturally weak and you've talked yourself into believing that strength isn't important.
Squad:
For lifting for over 30 years, I am relatively weak. However, I have never been injured lifting in any way whatsoever. Thus, I had to become a Zane desciple to get the most out of my relatievly light training.
"I was the best at making a light weight look heavy" :)
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moosejay, what do you attribute ur lack of injuries to?
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well i see it this way,
how many 200 lbs solid as rock dudes can run a sub 6 minute mile?
thats what i need to be able to do.
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moosejay, what do you attribute ur lack of injuries to?
Hey Goneaway.
Well, early on I was able to develop the 'mind/muscle link'...so I was able to not work ancillary muscles and isolate what I was concentarting on.
I never cared to be very strong, just wanted to look like Zane as a kid. Something told me I'd never be above 180'-190's in cometitive shape, and I am 5'11", and I was right.
So, I simply concentrated on shaping the muscles, creating an illusion onstage of having greater size and volume, and , well...part of it hadda be luck...I never got injured with weights.
Now car accidents and getting struck by cars on my bicycle...those are other stories... :)
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Hey Goneaway.
Well, early on I was able to develop the 'mind/muscle link'...so I was able to not work ancillary muscles and isolate what I was concentarting on.
same here man. but i developed this artificially with the use of weeed.. hah yeah pretty lame, but hey, it did teach me to correctly isolate the muscles.. and honestly, when i used to go to the gym high, id actually get my best workouts; because the weed made me so self concious and paranoid about all the other peeps in the gym that i would feel GUILTY for not going all out and not doing tons of sets. hahaha. yeah, LAME, i know. but yo...now i can do lat pull downs with no bicep involvement, and incline barbell bench with no shoulders. pretty dang cool.
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Hey Goneaway.
Well, early on I was able to develop the 'mind/muscle link'...so I was able to not work ancillary muscles and isolate what I was concentarting on.
I never cared to be very strong, just wanted to look like Zane as a kid. Something told me I'd never be above 180'-190's in cometitive shape, and I am 5'11", and I was right.
So, I simply concentrated on shaping the muscles, creating an illusion onstage of having greater size and volume, and , well...part of it hadda be luck...I never got injured with weights.
Now car accidents and getting struck by cars on my bicycle...those are other stories... :)
thanks for the reply, and yes, i can see how u managed to stay injury free in the gym all these years.
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same here man. but i developed this artificially with the use of weeed.. hah yeah pretty lame, but hey, it did teach me to correctly isolate the muscles.. and honestly, when i used to go to the gym high, id actually get my best workouts; because the weed made me so self concious and paranoid about all the other peeps in the gym that i would feel GUILTY for not going all out and not doing tons of sets. hahaha. yeah, LAME, i know. but yo...now i can do lat pull downs with no bicep involvement, and incline barbell bench with no shoulders. pretty dang cool.
That's cool...whatever works.
Yes...very important in those two lifts to do them as you do. Doing so makes all the diff in isolation and development. You are well ahead of the pack.
There was a guy named Joe L. from CT...won the LW NPC USA in the early 80's...incredibly ripped and strong as Hell...I don't think he EVER lifted a day in his life without doing some pot
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thanks for the reply, and yes, i can see how u managed to stay injury free in the gym all these years.
My pleasure, GA
BTW, here are my best lifts ever, done very early in life (22 years old, 5'11", about 190 lbs):
BP: struggled to put 300 up once (Ironically, I have done a few reps on multiple occasions of 315 on the incline-dunno why that's stroger than flats)
Deadlift: 425 for 2 two three reps
Squat: While I am not too strong on most other movements...I have always been very naturally strong on legs. At 15 I could do 15 moderately deep squats (Just below parallel) with 405. My max all-time at 21 was 525.
If interested, my pics are on general board, pics of members and more, under Moosejay thread.
Peace :)
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My pleasure, GA
BTW, here are my best lifts ever, done very early in life (22 years old, 5'11", about 190 lbs):
BP: struggled to put 300 up once (Ironically, I have done a few reps on multiple occasions of 315 on the incline-dunno why that's stroger than flats)
Peace :)
just my 1 1/2 cents, b/c i used to do the exact same thing. I bet you have better form on the Incline. Specifically, with the incline i really had my feet planted and was using my legs, abs and pecs to push the wt. whereas, when i was flat, i was sqirming like a fish just using my chest. Try a firm foundation on your BP and drive with your legs, if it works, sweet......if not, tell me to shut the hell up!
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some big lifts there moose.
i checked out ur pics and especially like this one. the hair, the mustache and the smile looks ALOT like samir banout. u do resemble zane in the upperbody, but those legs were just a tad off balance. i wish that sort of posing would be used more in photoshoots and onstage.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=192459.0;attach=223549;image)
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Non, no...do not shut up.,..those are very good advices :)
No excuses...but, after 9 surgeries on both shoulders and both wrists...dunno how much I am gonna try on heavy stuff (for me) in the future!
Mike
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some big lifts there moose.
i checked out ur pics and especially like this one. the hair, the mustache and the smile looks ALOT like samir banout. u do resemble zane in the upperbody, but those legs were just a tad off balance. i wish that sort of posing would be used more in photoshoots and onstage.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=192459.0;attach=223549;image)
Yes, GA, I agree. I love the more detailed posing of Zane et al.
That si probably one of my best shots. After 60 shows, I probably have about one thousand!
Interestingly, that was the year I had just completed my first year of chiropractic school.
After the first trimester, I was so freaked out at 30 credits per session...I stupidly quit training altogether! (This was after 4 years of college and a measly 18 credits per semester)...then, I realized I hadda get back to the gym no matter waht...and, strange...my legs lagged behind.
I will post some shots of when I competed at 22, and about 12 pounds heavier...and I think my legs may have actually overpowered the upper body!
Anyway, thanks for your gracious Samir and Zane comments...I am flattered,
Moosejay
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i'm happy with the progress i've made but i expected more in the beginning
E
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heck...i started training in 7th grade....didn't look like i even lifted in clothes for a few years...went into about 8 shows until i copped my first trophy at 18...did not win my class until 26...did not win overall until 31...so, i can say i loved training enough that the trophies were just extra icing on the cake :)...ps sorry about wrong case and lack of capitals/grammar...just had rotator cuff sx yesterday so only have left hand!
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=192459.0;attach=223549;image)
great pics man. you are indeed a moose and definitely a samir 'stache!
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Thanks, my friend. I will post more showing a different time where my legs actually outbalanced the upper body!
Moose
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id love to see them. why don't you have competetor stars?
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Good question...how do I get 'em?
I competed for 25+ years, training for 30....
Will post more later from competitions.,..I need to show my legs when they actually had some 'pop' to them... :)
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i think you just PM Ron
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id love to see them. why don't you have competetor stars?
Finally got 'em. Check out my threads for the pics of me and golden age guys on Gossip and Opinions board,
Mike
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Ive been looking at them. they are great! :D
So tell me what are the big differences in todays training vs. training back then. I know there are a million different routines (both then and now) but can you make any generalizations?
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Sure.
Back in the late 70's and most of the 80's...we always did each bodypart at least twice per week...and sometimes three times per week.
I know it sounds nuts, but that's what we did.
Supersets and even giant sets were heavily in vogue, as well. We didn't have much in cardio equipment, so we'd attain conditioning with keep intesnisty very high.
If anything...not taking anything away from anyone today (as I still train too)...but we definitely trained in a more intense fashion back then.
We'd cycle on and off, not stay on drugs seemingly for years at a time.
We'd do the low carb deal.
I mean, airosol, we'd hardly eat!!
I remember eating dry cans of tuna...lettuce with vinegar, and a baked potater EVERY THIRD DAY for carbs!!
Yes...ripped...but we'd lose untold amounts of size.
Well...the pioneers are the ones who set the tone for thge future, I guess!
Mike
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LOL, i dont have that kind of dedication. I'd have been 400 lbs. of fat.
You've done things that'll I'll never do, so i know you dont need any compliments from me. But I find you to be a great asset to Getbig. Thanks for the stories and pics!
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Thanks airosol...can always take from advice from anyone...and thanks I like it here
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sorry to see your quitting and blaming it all on genetics
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sorry to see your quitting and blaming it all on genetics
Not quitting; have to fight the fight...but one would be delusional after a few years of training to think one has good genetics when one doesn't...